History Extra Podcast – “The Amazons: Wonder-Women of the Ancient World”

Release Date: September 4, 2025
Host: Dave Musgrove (Immediate Media)
Guest: Professor David Braund (Emeritus Professor of Classics, University of Exeter)

Episode Overview

In this engaging episode, host Dave Musgrove interviews Professor David Braund, author of Amazons: The History Behind the Legend. Their discussion delves deep into the myth, meaning, and societal functions of the Amazons in ancient Greek culture. Rather than simply reinforcing the classic image of warrior women, the episode unveils the Amazons as complex, multi-dimensional figures embedded in Greek myth, city-building, religion, and gender ideology.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Did Amazons Really Exist? (02:38–06:53)

• Two Definitions of “Amazon”:
  • General: Refers to tough, fighting women—“for sure they did” exist (03:13).
  • Specific (Greek Myth): The mythical race of women as conceived in Greek culture; a foundational trope in Greek art, religion, and storytelling.
• Purpose in Greek Culture:
  • Greeks placed Amazons on temples (notably the Parthenon), vases, and even on three of the seven wonders of the ancient world.
  • “Why on earth are they doing [that]? Why do they want these Amazons there?” (04:42)
• Modern Appropriation:
  Professor Braund is careful to distinguish historical analysis from undermining modern, empowering uses of the Amazon myth.

2. Amazons in Art, Architecture, and Myth (06:53–11:47)

• Presence Across Greek Culture:
  • Amazon imagery is found on major temples—Artemis at Ephesus, Zeus at Olympia, and the Mausoleum at Halicarnassus.
  • These myths are not just about fighting: “Amazons can build temples. They're architects, they're builders, they're fiercely intelligent.” (10:32)
  • Amazon tombs served as city landmarks, e.g., “I'll see you by the Amazon” (10:54).
• Creativity Over Combat:
  • Modern focus on Amazons as fighters is too narrow. Their mythos included city-building, cult creation, and even hints of astronomical knowledge.

3. Origins and Geographical Context of the Amazons (11:47–19:50)

• Ethnic Origins:
  • Often described as Thracian, originating between the lower Danube and northern Aegean.
• Mythic Migration:
  • After their destruction by Heracles, remnants move westward or become refugees on the north coast of the Black Sea (near the Don).
  • Detailed account of integration (not full assimilation) with Scythian society—forming the basis for the so-called “Sauromatian” culture, which is not truly Amazonian.
• A Reflection on Myth vs. Reality:
  • These are “imagined prehistory” stories—used to explain the origins of real societies and customs.

4. Archaeological Evidence? (21:05–22:29)

• Burial Finds:
  • Some graves with women and weapons, but Professor Braund cautions: “You don’t come along and say, ‘Oh, right, there’s a weapon in the grave, therefore the woman in life used weapons.’” (21:51)
  • Such evidence is often overstated and not definitive proof of female warriors.

5. Amazonian Society – What Were They Like? (22:29–27:19)

• Not Just Fighters:
  • Based in agrarian cities, but highly mobile, with a culture built around horses and horse-based fighting.
• Matriarchal Structure:
  • Entirely matriarchal, led by a queen who is always described as “especially beautiful in a kind of statuesque way as well. She has to be tall and remarkable.” (23:25)
• A Double Threat:
  • Dangerous both as warriors and as irresistible women, fulfilling a clear male fantasy: “If they don’t get you with their weaponry, they get you with their feminine prowess, and that’s just as dangerous.” (25:00)
  • Example: Achilles and Penthesileia—“He’s totally disturbed that he’s killed this astounding woman who he should probably be marrying” (26:10).

6. The Amazon as a Male Fantasy and Myth as Social Instruction (27:19–29:25)

• Amazons are a “male fantasy,” but not simply or solely sexual.
• In Greek art, depictions of Amazons are “always quite respectful of women” (27:58), unlike other mythic representations.
• Amazons embody the ideal tension and respect for powerful femininity.

7. Amazons: More Than Women With Weapons (29:25–31:25)

• “We shouldn’t see these Amazons as women with weapons.” (29:25)
• They were also agriculturists, political organizers, legislators—a complete society.
• Their capacity to self-govern, create, and maintain order was both fascinating and troubling for patriarchal Greek writers, who “occasionally [were] annoyed… that Amazons could run their own state.” (30:35)

8. Why Did Greek Men Need Amazons in Their Myth? (31:25–36:45)

• Served to explain origins, religious cults, landmarks, and societal values.
• “Origins which have a female element… is a rather neglected part of the story.” (32:09)
• Amazons as mothers, creators, and contributors to Greek culture—a subtle, complex role for women in myth, not just on the battlefield but as essential to life and society.
• Professor Braund argues for a more nuanced understanding of Greek patriarchy: “It’s not quite as black and bleak and miserable negative as many an account would have us think.” (36:29)

9. Quick-Fire Myths Addressed

The “Breast Removal” Myth (36:45–38:22)

• Early Greek writers, like Hellanicus, dismissed this as absurd: “If you cut the breast off a woman, she would die.”
• Not found in art: “If you put an Amazon on your temple, she has two breasts, end of story.” (38:04)
• Practical archery concerns could be solved with a “chest protector.”

Reproduction in a Female-Only Society? (38:22–42:05)

• Myth sidesteps detail: “The beauty of myth, you see, is it doesn’t need to be like some kind of PhD dissertation.”
• Occasionally, stories mention sexual encounters with neighboring peoples or deals to produce children, but “not part of mainline thinking.”
• Some late, rare, and disturbing versions mention disposal or disabling of male offspring, but these are exceptions.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Greek depictions of Amazons:

  • “They’re on these three of the seven Wonders of the Ancient World. We have Amazons, you know—why? What’s it about?” (04:42, Professor David Braund)

• On the richness of the Amazon myth:

  • “There’s been this obsession with, ‘oh, these are women who can fight.’ Well, yes they are…and good for them, that’s fine. But there’s so much more than that.” (10:30, Prof. Braund)

• On the Amazon queen:

  • “The queen is like a sort of supermodel…these Amazons are quite explicitly beautiful in a way that appeals to men. After all, this is a male Greek fantasy…” (23:18, Prof. Braund)

• On Amazons’ dual threat:

  • “They’re dangerous in the sense that they can get you with their spear or their bow…But if they don’t get you with their weaponry, they get you with their feminine prowess, and that’s just as dangerous.” (25:00, Prof. Braund)

• On the purpose of the myth:

  • “Why do Greeks want [Amazons]? Well, I think because they explain so much…why we have this cult about Artemis, how Athens became strong.” (32:00, Prof. Braund)

• On the breast-removal myth:

  • “If you cut the breast off a woman, she would die…If you put an Amazon on your temple, she has two breasts, end of story.” (36:56, 38:04, Prof. Braund)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 02:38 – Did the Amazons exist? The two “Amazons” and their functions
• 06:53 – Amazons in Greek architecture, pottery, and myth
• 11:47 – Origins: Thrace, Heracles, the Black Sea, and mythic history
• 21:05 – Archaeology: Women and weapons in ancient graves
• 22:29 – Society and culture: Matriarchy, creativity, and the Amazon queen
• 27:19 – Amazons as a Greek male fantasy
• 29:25 – Beyond warriors: The breadth of Amazonian myth and society
• 31:25 – Why the Greeks needed the Amazon myth
• 36:45 – Cutting off a breast: A persistent but unsupported myth
• 38:22 – Reproduction and logic holes in the myth

Tone and Takeaways

The conversation is lively, thoughtful, and debunks popular misconceptions by focusing on the multifaceted roles of Amazons in Greek myth and society. Professor Braund repeatedly returns to the complexity and creativity inherent in these mythical women, while highlighting the ways in which the myth served the needs and anxieties of ancient Greek men. The take-home message: the Amazons were far more than mere “warrior women”—they were constructs that let Greek society negotiate questions of gender, creativity, otherness, and power.

For more, see Professor David Braund’s book, Amazons: The History Behind the Legend.