History Extra Podcast: "The Dark Side of Samuel Pepys"

Date: October 7, 2025
Host: David Musgrove
Guest: Guy de la Bedoyere (Roman historian, author of “The Confessions of Samuel Pepys”)

Episode Overview

In this engaging and provocative episode, historian Guy de la Bedoyere joins host David Musgrove to discuss the contentious legacy of Samuel Pepys—the 17th-century diarist renowned for his vivid accounts of Restoration London. Moving beyond Pepys’ fame as a chronicler, Bedoyere foregrounds the "dark side" of Pepys, scrutinizing his self-recorded acts of abuse, sexual predation, grooming, and corruption. Drawing on his new research, Bedoyere reveals how previous generations of editors obfuscated or omitted these facets of Pepys' diaries, and asks how modern readers should confront the complexities of a historical figure as brilliant and as flawed as Pepys.

Key Discussion Points

1. Who Was Samuel Pepys?

• Pepys’ notoriety and paradoxes ([02:57])

  • Pepys was a "great diarist," "corrupt," "a domestic abuser, a groomer, a groper, a serial adulterer, [and] a rapist"—all by his own testimony.
    • “Everything you've just said there is by his own personal testimony from the diary. That's where that evidence comes from.” — Guy de la Bedoyere [03:12]
  • Alongside his transgressions, Pepys was "esteemed by his contemporaries," a "brilliant naval administrator," and "enormously curious and interesting."
  • A man of paradoxes: revered and sinful, affectionate and abusive.

• Significance of the diary ([04:10])

  • Pepys' diary is both vivid and haphazard, blending observations of public events (Restoration, plague, Great Fire) with reports on the mundane (constipation, quarrels, affairs).
  • The diary is not a complete record; correspondence reveals omitted activities.

• Context for writing ([07:01])

  • Started the diary on January 1, 1660—a time of political revolution with the Restoration of Charles II.
  • Motivated by awareness of living through extraordinary events: “He knew he was witnessing an amazing period.” — Guy de la Bedoyere [07:24]

2. The Making and Transmission of the Diary

• Pepys' background and status ([09:03])
  • Not born wealthy; son of a tailor but rose via family connections (Montagu family) to become Clerk of the Acts in the Navy.
  • Despite a “lowly official” title, his proximity to power in a small, interconnected London gave him significant influence.
• Writing in shorthand and hiding secrets ([11:48])
  • Used Thomas Shelton’s 'tachygraphy' shorthand, which made the diary hard to read.
  • Pepys sometimes wrote explicit passages in a mix of English, French, and Spanish shorthand to deliberately obscure them.
  • Earlier editors struggled to understand and were cautious about what to reveal.

3. The ‘Dark Side’: Pepys as Sexual Predator and Abuser

• Was this known before? ([16:26])

  • Early editors (19th c.) recognized "controversial, totally unacceptable material" but omitted or obscured it for Victorian sensibilities.
  • Bedoyere’s work is the first to transcribe and translate these passages in full, using Pepys’ own French and Spanish dictionaries—a feat not previously accomplished.

• Examples of predatory behavior ([16:58]; [23:32])

  • Pepys details in the diary (sometimes in veiled language or coded languages) his serial abuse and sexual assaults, including the rape of Elizabeth Bagwell and groping of servant girls and waitresses.
  • He was “obsessive” about pursuing women, particularly those of lower status or less powerful positions who had little recourse.
    • “He was assaulting his own maids, he was assaulting waitresses, he had regular mistresses with whom he was sleeping on a routine basis...” — Guy de la Bedoyere [16:58]

• The psychological context ([21:12])

  • Bedoyere compares Pepys’ compulsions to modern recognized disorders (kleptomania, gambling).
  • Hiding, risk, and secrecy became part of the thrill for Pepys—feeding a spiral of “addiction to sex.”

• Contemporary risks and societal standards ([23:32])

  • Although the Restoration court flaunted mistresses, Pepys faced personal risks—exposure, professional disgrace, and being caught by his wife.
  • Legal recourse for victims was nearly nonexistent; social deference reinforced the power imbalance.

• Methods of seduction, grooming, and abuse ([26:44])

  • Uncertain if Pepys was “handsome” or "charming," but he clearly wielded charisma and explicit power over women, especially servants, widows in need, or those seeking favors for their families.
  • Families sometimes encouraged the relationships to secure employment or promotions (“her family... are pushing her into liaisons with Pepys because they have recognized that he is corruptible” — [26:44]).
  • Example: Elizabeth Burrows, a widow, “slides into acceding to Pepys’ sexual demands.”

4. Why Did Pepys Record and Preserve This?

• On “confessing” in the diary ([30:32])
  • Pepys never explains his motives for preserving the diary.
  • Possible drives: a collector’s impulse (chronicle his "conquests"), narcissism, or a form of self-expiation.
  • Recurring themes of guilt and broken oaths.
    • “He is consumed by an element of total self disgust...” — Guy de la Bedoyere [30:58]
  • Unlike modern memoirs that self-edit, Pepys “set it all down,” creating a unique, unvarnished self-portrait.

5. How Should We View Pepys Today?

• Cancel culture and historical reckoning ([34:09])

  • Musgrove asks: “Should he be cancelled? Should we be looking at his diaries at all?”
  • Bedoyere: Today, such behavior would warrant “destroying that person's reputation,” but history resists such binary judgments.
    • “If we... cancel Pepys’s diary, we can’t look at that ever again, we would be removing one of the most important pieces of evidence for everyday life in... the 1600s.” — [34:09]
  • Insists on preserving the whole record, including its darkness: both as a vital historical document and a truth about human complexity.
  • Criticizes past editors for falsifying or omitting uncomfortable content.

• Concluding reflection

  • The historian’s job is not to shield readers but to "understand better"—even when confronted by distressing truths.
    • “Although vast majority of people are not going to behave anything like this, I think perhaps we all ought to recognize that none of us is wholly perfect and that we are all very complicated mixes of different sorts of things, good and bad.” — Guy de la Bedoyere [34:09]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Pepys’ self-recorded crimes:
  • “Everything you've just said there is by his own personal testimony from the diary.” — Guy de la Bedoyere [03:12]
• On why the diary is vital:
  • “His record of 17th century life in London is so vivid and compelling that were we to say, well, we must cancel Pepys’s diary, we can’t look at that ever again, we would be removing one of the most important pieces of evidence for everyday life in this country, in London in the 1600s on which so much is based.” — Guy de la Bedoyere [34:09]
• On editing the record:
  • “If the diary is going to exist as in our archives, it deserves to be the whole thing. Not something where individuals have taken it upon themselves either to cut bits out, to falsify the reputation of Pepys...” — Guy de la Bedoyere [34:09]
• On personal imperfection and historical judgment:
  • “We are all very complicated mixes of different sorts of things, good and bad. That’s what makes it.” — Guy de la Bedoyere [34:09]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:57] — Introduction of Pepys’ paradoxical character
• [04:10] — Why Pepys’ diary is unique and important
• [07:24] — Historical setting and motivations for beginning the diary
• [09:03] — Pepys’ career and social ascent
• [11:48] — The mechanics and secrecy of Pepys’ shorthand diaries
• [16:26] — How Pepys’ “dark” behaviors were hidden by early editors
• [21:12] — Psychology of Pepys’ compulsions; comparison to modern addiction
• [23:32] — Risks Pepys faced and the power imbalance with his victims
• [26:44] — Pepys’ methods: charisma, grooming, corruption
• [30:58] — The paradox of preserving confessions: guilt, expiation, collection
• [34:09] — How should we judge Pepys today? The diary as a whole, not sanitized

Tone & Style

Guy de la Bedoyere’s tone is frank, candid, and at times wryly self-aware. He does not mince words regarding Pepys’ actions—using direct terms like “serial abuser” and “rapist”—while drawing out the ethical complexities of judging historical figures. The exchange between Musgrove and Bedoyere is thoughtful, probing, and never shies away from discomfort, but always foregrounds the importance of confronting the past in its entirety.

Conclusion

This episode offers a revealing, sometimes disturbing, yet ultimately necessary reappraisal of Samuel Pepys. Bedoyere’s scholarship peels back centuries of editorial selectivity to force the question: can we truly understand the past if we refuse to face its darker realities? In making previously suppressed passages available—and accessible—Bedoyere challenges us to contend with Pepys as a whole person, genius and transgressor alike. For those seeking a nuanced exploration of historical evidence, this conversation is essential listening.