The Real Women Behind Europe's Greatest Legends

HistoryExtra Podcast | Host: Danny Bird | Guest: Dr. Yanina Ramirez
Release Date: February 25, 2026

Episode Overview

In this episode, host Danny Bird is joined by historian, art historian, and author Dr. Yanina Ramirez to discuss her new book, which explores how medieval and early modern European women like Joan of Arc, Isabella of Castile, and others were transformed—often posthumously—into potent national and political symbols. Ramirez unpacks how legend and myth have obscured the real lives of these women, the political motives behind their mythologization, and the complex interplay between gender, identity, and nation-building.

Main Themes & Purpose

• Historicizing Women’s Role in Nationhood: The episode examines how individual women became larger-than-life symbols used in the construction of national identity, often posthumously and sometimes contradictorily to their own experiences.
• Legend vs. Reality: Ramirez challenges the listener to look past popular legends and archetypes and rediscover the complex, authentic lives of women whose stories continue to shape politics and culture.
• Lessons for Today: The conversation explores how history is manipulated for contemporary agendas and what we might learn about identity, resilience, and critical thinking from the women of the past.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Personal Perspective in Historical Research

Timestamp: 02:03–05:26

• Ramirez reflects on her own identity—as a woman of Polish-Irish heritage, raised Catholic in the UK—and how it naturally informed her scholarly voice and interests.
• She describes the gradual realization that national and religious identities are not just research topics but part of her own lived experience—"those scaffolds of my own identity have really come into everything I’ve done." (Yanina Ramirez, 02:07)
• National identity and terminology (British Isles, Welsh, Irish, etc.) have always required careful consideration, especially as history is repurposed for nation-building.

2. Women as National Icons: Enduring Impact

Timestamp: 05:26–08:07

• Joan of Arc: Ramirez discusses how Joan remains central to French political rhetoric, notably appropriated by far-right movements—“He then set up a further right version of it, which he named the party of Joan, the party of Joan of Arc, and made her the banner...” (Yanina Ramirez, 05:37)
• Isabella of Castile: Her legacy continues to affect Spanish regional dynamics and cultural tension—“And yet again we’ve got conflict in Catalonia, in the Basque region, in Scotland. These imposed identities will not always be simply accepted...” (Yanina Ramirez, 07:40)

3. The Paradox of Feminized Nations

Timestamp: 08:07–13:24

• National personifications (Britannia, Marianne, etc.) adorn institutions but exclude real women from power.
• Ramirez highlights the contradiction: “The nation is a woman, but women didn’t build nations... In almost every revolutionary moment... the women are almost entirely excluded from the creation of a national identity.” (Yanina Ramirez, 08:27)
• She reflects on progress and regression in women’s agency and the cyclical nature of gender roles in history: “We think we’re on a constant spiral of progress upwards, but what I’m seeing is that there are these sorts of waves... we move forward, we step backward, we slide way backwards.” (Yanina Ramirez, 12:12)

4. Why Some Women Become Heroines

Timestamp: 13:24–16:35

• Charisma, controversy, and the reductive power of storytelling help select which figures are remembered: “We are still in the thrall of the charismatic, the extreme, the outspoken, the difficult.” (Yanina Ramirez, 13:36)
• Iconography and simplicity foster endurance—e.g., Goya’s imagery of Agostina of Aragon: “That icon has been seared into people’s minds... the thing is, I could have written a thousand books looking at 1000 different historical figures.” (14:43)
• Ramirez urges readers to dig beneath the myth: “Let’s go beneath the story. Let’s be really forensic about who our historical figures are.” (15:41)

5. Objects, Art, and the Byzantium Chapter

Timestamp: 17:58–23:03

• The Greek War of Independence and the Byzantine world are often downplayed in “Western” narratives.
• Surviving artifacts—coined by female Emperors, bejeweled crosses—show that women were sometimes at the apex of power: “You find things like coins that have the two empresses, Zoe and Theodora... literally the top of the [world].” (Yanina Ramirez, 20:57)
• Ramirez stresses the importance of a global, less Eurocentric history and warns against Western exceptionalism.

6. Women of Faith: Catherine of Siena and Others

Timestamp: 23:03–28:05

• The allure and the dangers of self-mortification and extreme action as routes to religious/political prominence.
• Catherine of Siena—an “influencer” with a “vicious marketing team” (23:18)—used public penance to gain notoriety and effect political change.
• Discussion of how extreme acts and sainthood are tightly bound, often as the only available path to agency for medieval women.

7. The Political Use and Abuse of Historical Women

Timestamp: 28:05–31:05

• Propaganda’s modern manifestations: “It’s everywhere. It’s every day, it’s every moment. I mean, the frustration of the historian is we get often told to stay in our lane... How can I not?” (Yanina Ramirez, 28:20)
• The misappropriation of Templar and crusader imagery by modern far-right figures is cited as a stark example.
• Ramirez notes: “There’s never been a time where the good and the great haven't harnessed the past... None of us have the ability to see forwards... we’ll constantly go back and misuse that past...” (Yanina Ramirez, 29:24)

8. Resilience and Identity: Lessons for Today

Timestamp: 31:05–35:00

• Ramirez urges critical engagement with history as a tool for combating division, misinformation, and propaganda.
• “We need to be brave. We need to be clear minded. And I use the phrase sharpen our scholarly sword and sharpen our minds to prepare ourselves for what’s coming.” (Yanina Ramirez, 31:20)
• Emphasizes everyday agency, local history, and reconnecting physically with the landscape and each other as antidotes to the alienation of modern, digitized life.
• “The thing we can control... is we can connect with the people around us... We can help each other, we can live collaboratively... No, we’re humans and we’ve always lived alongside each other.” (Yanina Ramirez, 34:06)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Joan of Arc’s Political Afterlife:
  “Even when he was kicked out of the National Front Party, he then set up a further right version... named the party of Joan of Arc, and made her the banner...” (Ramirez, 05:37)

• On Feminized Nations and Exclusion:
  “The nation is a woman, but women didn’t build nations. It is a fundamental injustice...” (Ramirez, 08:27)

• On Hero Construction:
  “People don’t wanna dig into all of the nitty gritty and the detail. They wanna know who their heroes are... an instantly reductive version of a hero.” (Ramirez, 14:13)

• On The Power of Objects from the Past:
  “When you see these accidental survivals... that are very, very clear indicators that women ruled the world... that chapter was really powerful for me.” (Ramirez, 21:32)

• On the Use and Abuse of the Past:
  “There’s never been a time where the good and the great haven’t harnessed the past... all anybody can ever do is look backwards.” (Ramirez, 29:24)

• On Lessons for Today:
  “We need to be brave. We need to be clear minded. And I use the phrase ‘sharpen our scholarly sword’ and sharpen our minds for what’s coming. Because... we are fighting against misinformation, we’re fighting against propaganda and control at the very highest, most manipulative levels.” (Ramirez, 31:20)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Personal and National Identity in Scholarship – 02:03–05:26
• Icons as National Symbols (Joan of Arc & Isabella of Castile) – 05:26–08:07
• The Paradox of Nation as Woman – 08:07–13:24
• Why Some Women Endure as Legends – 13:24–16:35
• Art Objects, Greece, and Forgotten Heroines – 17:58–23:03
• Women of Faith & Power (Catherine of Siena, etc.) – 23:03–28:05
• Propaganda and Manipulation of History – 28:05–31:05
• Resilience, Reconnection, and Modern Lessons – 31:05–35:00

Conclusion

Dr. Yanina Ramirez’s insight-packed conversation with Danny Bird leaves listeners with a compelling call to interrogate the history behind national myths, remain vigilant against manipulation, and reconnect with the real, complex women whose lives shaped Europe’s past. Their courage, and the truth beneath the legend, offer both a challenge and an inspiration for thinking critically about identity, power, and resilience in the present.