History Extra Podcast Summary

Episode: The Third Reich's First Genocide
Release Date: June 8, 2025
Host/Producer: Immediate Media
Guest: Dagmar Herzog, Professor of History at the Graduate Center, City University of New York
Book Discussed: The Question of Unworthy Life

Introduction

In this compelling episode of the History Extra Podcast, hosted by Immediate Media, Dagmar Herzog delves into the harrowing history of the Nazi regime's euthanasia program targeting individuals with psychiatric illnesses and cognitive disabilities. Drawing from her influential book, The Question of Unworthy Life, Herzog explores the origins, implementation, and long-term ramifications of these atrocities.

The Nazis' Euthanasia Program

Herzog begins by outlining the scope and target of the Nazi euthanasia program.

[02:54] Herzog: "The Nazis killed approximately 300,000 people on grounds that this was a mercy death. In quotes. Euthanasia. That is a euphemism because in fact they were grotesque and cruel deaths..."

The program primarily targeted individuals with psychiatric illnesses, predominantly schizophrenia, and cognitive impairments. Herzog emphasizes that these victims were often long-term institutionalized individuals deemed unable to contribute to society.

German Attitudes Towards Disability Before the Third Reich

Examining the pre-Nazi era, Herzog discusses the societal and institutional attitudes toward disability in 19th-century Germany.

[05:51] Herzog: "Germany was really precocious in setting up institutions for care for people with intellectual disabilities... taken as a Christian obligation."

Despite the early establishment of care institutions, there was growing ambivalence and stigmatization of the disabled. By the 1890s, societal acceptance of death wishes for disabled individuals began to take root, influenced by rising secularism and scientific rationalizations.

Rise of Eugenics and Its Impact

Herzog explores the emergence of eugenics as a movement and its role in shaping Nazi ideology.

[10:01] Herzog: "Eugenics is an international movement... but in some cases that's done with better prenatal care or better nutrition, better after birth care."

While eugenics had varying applications globally, in Germany, it evolved into a sinister ideology advocating for the elimination of perceived genetic 'flaws.' Herzog highlights the flawed scientific basis of eugenics, particularly the misconstrued inheritance theories that fueled the movement.

Nazi Propaganda and Public Communication

The episode delves into how the Nazi regime effectively disseminated their eugenic and euthanasia ideologies to the broader public.

[14:41] Herzog: "An unbelievable amount of energy, money and creativity is put into the propaganda... they are constantly making the argument that we will save money..."

Through censorship, control of educational materials, and emotionally charged propaganda, the Nazis ingrained stigmatizing views of disabled individuals, portraying them as economic burdens and societal imperfections.

Escalation to Mass Murders and Gas Chambers

Herzog details the transition from sterilizations to systematic mass murders using gas chambers.

[18:44] Herzog: "They send children over to a clinic where supposedly they can be helped, but in fact where they're later killed."

Starting in 1939, the Nazis initiated the child euthanasia program, which eventually expanded to include adults. The introduction of gas chambers marked a horrific escalation, with over 70,000 individuals murdered between January 1940 and August 1941 using carbon monoxide.

Connection to the Holocaust

Herzog draws parallels between the euthanasia program and the broader Holocaust, illustrating a technological and procedural continuity.

[22:54] Herzog: "There is a direct link in terms of technology transfer and in terms of the actual same perpetrators."

The methodologies and personnel involved in the euthanasia killings were later employed in extermination camps like Belza, Sobibor, and Treblinka, underscoring the interconnectedness of these genocidal actions.

Post-War Recognition and Stigmatization

The discussion shifts to the post-World War II period, highlighting the delayed acknowledgment and continued stigmatization of euthanasia victims.

[24:36] Herzog: "It took until the 1980s and 90s to get the euthanasia mass murders taken seriously as a mass crime."

For decades, the atrocities against disabled individuals were marginalized within the larger narrative of the Holocaust. Efforts to seek reparations or recognition were often met with resistance, and institutions involved in the killings remained shrouded in shame.

Contemporary Reflections and Ongoing Issues

Herzog reflects on modern perspectives, including the resurgence of anti-disability sentiments within Germany's far-right movements.

[35:04] Herzog: "There is now from the AFD Alternativi Verd, the new far right party, which has about 20% of the populace behind it. They are obsessively anti disability."

Despite significant progress, including the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities, Herzog warns of persistent and resurging prejudices that threaten the hard-won advances in disability rights and integration.

Conclusion

Dagmar Herzog underscores the importance of remembering and acknowledging the full scope of Nazi atrocities beyond the Holocaust, advocating for continued vigilance against ideologies that devalue human life based on disability. She calls for ongoing education, integration, and the celebration of diversity to prevent history from repeating its darkest chapters.

[37:34] Herzog: "The radical generation ultimately not only restored the proper history and memory of what had happened during the Third Reich, but also settled accounts with the post war violence and neglect."

Final Remarks

The episode serves as a poignant reminder of the depths of human cruelty and the enduring necessity of historical remembrance. Through Herzog's insightful analysis, listeners gain a comprehensive understanding of the Nazi euthanasia program's complexities and its lasting impact on society.

Produced by: Jack Bateman
Additional Credits: Immediate Media