Troubadours: everything you wanted to know

Summary

History Extra Podcast Summary: "Troubadours: Everything You Wanted to Know"

Release Date: April 26, 2025

In the "Troubadours: Everything You Wanted to Know" episode of the History Extra podcast, host Emily Priffet engages in an enlightening conversation with Professor Linda Patterson, the author of The Troubadours. This detailed discussion delves into the intricate world of troubadours, exploring their roles, influences, and enduring legacy in medieval Europe.

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Introduction to Troubadours

The episode opens with Emily Priffet introducing the concept of troubadours as "the poet musicians of Western and Southern Europe, especially southern France" during the high Middle Ages. She poses a critical question: Were they merely the lovesick, wandering minstrels popularized in modern culture, or was there more depth to their artistry?

Defining the Troubadour

Professor Linda Patterson begins by answering a foundational question: What exactly was a troubadour? At [02:29], she explains, “A troubadour was a poet, musician, active in the south of France and many other places in the 12th and 13th centuries, starting actually at the very end of the 11th century.” She emphasizes that troubadours composed their works in Occitane, also known as Provençal.

Distinction from Jongleurs

Addressing a listener’s query at [02:46], Professor Patterson differentiates troubadours from jongleurs (performers). She states, “There’s a difference between a troubadour who is a composer and a jongleur who is a performer.” While both could overlap, troubadours were generally more professional, composing refined pieces often associated with courtly settings.

Patronage and Performance Venues

At [04:48], the discussion shifts to where troubadours performed. Professor Patterson explains that troubadours were often attached to noble courts, receiving “board and lodging, they got gifts with luck.” However, they also traveled, performing in places where audiences would appreciate their refined compositions, unlike modern buskers.

Beyond Entertainment: Courtly Values and Politics

At [05:57], Professor Patterson highlights the significant roles troubadours played beyond mere entertainment. They “promulgated and formulated courtly values” and acted as political influencers by composing “propaganda songs” that supported their patrons' causes. This dual role made them integral to the social and political fabric of their time.

Relationship with the Church

Addressing the Church's perception of troubadours at [06:24], Professor Patterson notes that initially, the Church did not object to troubadours. However, figures like William IX of Aquitaine faced criticism for obscene content in their songs. Post the Third Crusade, the Church's stance became more negative, viewing courtly songs as inappropriate, thus challenging troubadours to adapt.

Origins and Spread of the Troubadour Tradition

At [07:25], Professor Patterson discusses the enigmatic origins of troubadours, suggesting influences from Latin church music and possibly Arab music, evidenced by “similarities between courtly love of the troubadours and Love, as is sung by the Arabs.” The tradition started in regions like Aquitaine and spread to areas such as Languedoc, Provence, Spain, and even touched northern France and England.

Etymology of "Troubadour"

Addressing the meaning of the term at [09:06], Professor Patterson reveals that "troubadour" likely means “finder” or “creator,” rather than being derived from medieval rhetoric as previously thought.

Demographics of Troubadours

At [11:04], Professor Patterson explains that troubadours came from various social strata, including kings, counts, lords, knights, and burghers. However, peasants were generally excluded. This diversity allowed troubadours to bring prestige to the courts and sought financial rewards from lower societal tiers.

Women Troubadours

One of the most intriguing aspects discussed at [12:22] is the role of women troubadours. Professor Patterson confirms that women could indeed be troubadours, though they were significantly fewer in number. She states, “Of the poems that have survived, we've got about 2,500 texts altogether that have been passed on. Of those, 25 are attributable to women.” Despite their rarity, female troubadours contributed to the tradition, often navigating societal constraints in their compositions.

Themes and Subjects in Troubadour Songs

At [16:27], the conversation delves into the rich tapestry of subjects troubadours addressed. While courtly love was prevalent, troubadours also composed political songs, debate songs, and even obscene pieces. Professor Patterson illustrates the evolution of love themes, from the self-confident expressions of early troubadours like William IX to the unfulfilled longing in later figures like Jaufli Rudel.

Perceptions and Myths

Addressing popular misconceptions at [20:36], Professor Patterson clarifies that the romanticized image of troubadours as mere seducers is exaggerated. She recounts stories, such as William IX’s humorous encounter with a couple testing his intentions, to highlight the varied and complex nature of troubadour narratives.

Artistic Styles and Musical Structures

At [24:38], Professor Patterson elaborates on the artistic sophistication of troubadours. They developed intricate poetic styles, including Trobar Clus (closed), Trobar Leo (light), and Trobar Prib (delicate). Their verse forms were highly complex, often featuring multiple stanzas with specific rhyme schemes. Musically, while evidence of accompanying instruments is sparse, she notes that troubadour songs likely incorporated a variety of musical phrases and structures influenced by contemporary secular and sacred music.

Survival and Preservation of Troubadour Music

Discussing the preservation of troubadour songs at [28:59], Professor Patterson explains that many songs survived through manuscripts that included musical notation. However, much remains open to interpretation, allowing modern musicians to recreate these melodies based on surviving tunes found in manuscripts like “manuscript R.”

Performance Practices of Troubadours

At [31:21], the discussion explores how troubadours might have performed their works. While evidence of instrumental accompaniment is limited, Professor Patterson imagines troubadours performing in small settings, possibly using props or masks to enhance their storytelling, especially in politically charged contexts like the Aragonese Crusade.

Impact of the Albigensian Crusade

The Albigensian Crusade's effect on troubadour culture is examined at [33:48]. Professor Patterson asserts that the crusade was “very damaging because it really put an end to a lot of the courts, which was the lifeblood of the troubadours.” Despite this, the troubadour tradition persisted, migrating to regions like Spain and Italy, and influencing subsequent literary movements.

Legacy and Mythologizing in Later Centuries

At [37:05], Professor Patterson reflects on the troubadours' legacy, noting their influence on romantic literature and modern perceptions. She cautions against conflating epic heroes like Roland with troubadours, emphasizing that troubadours were distinct in their focus on courtly love and poetic innovation.

Common Misconceptions Debunked

Finally, at [38:01], Professor Patterson addresses prevalent misconceptions:

1. “You shouldn’t generalize about the troubadours because they’re actually very creative and innovative and different one from another.”
2. “Chivalry isn’t the same as courtliness.”

She stresses the importance of recognizing the troubadours' diversity and the distinct nature of courtly behaviors separate from the martial ethos of chivalry.

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Notable Quotes:

• “Troubadours are actually singing often very refined compositions. They might be political, they might be even rude.” — Linda Patterson [04:48]

• “They represented courtly values. That's one thing. Another is that I think they had quite a strong political force.” — Linda Patterson [05:57]

• “The Church didn’t make too much of a fuss in the early days, although they were critical of the first troubadour, William IX of Aquitaine.” — Linda Patterson [06:24]

• “There are over 900 different verse forms.” — Linda Patterson [24:46]

• “There are something like 460 troubadours altogether, and we know of approximately 20 named women troubadours.” — Linda Patterson [12:22]

Conclusion

This episode provides a comprehensive exploration of troubadours, shedding light on their multifaceted roles as poets, musicians, and cultural influencers in medieval Europe. Professor Linda Patterson’s insights dispel common myths, highlighting the troubadours' significant contributions to literature, music, and societal values. Their legacy, as detailed in this conversation, underscores the profound impact these medieval artists had on shaping the cultural landscape of their time and beyond.

For those intrigued by the world of troubadours, this episode serves as an invaluable resource, offering deep dives into their lives, works, and enduring influence on historical and modern narratives.

Transcript

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[Emily Priffet]

Welcome to the History Extra Podcast. Fascinating historical conversations from the makers of BBC History magazine. Composing songs of courtly love and war in the high Middle Ages, the Troubadours were the poet musicians of Western and Southern Europe, especially southern France. But were they really the lovesick wandering minstrels that popular culture would have us believe? Or was there more to their artistry? Speaking to Emily Briffet, Professor Linda Patterson, author of the Troubadours, answers your top questions on their lives and their enduring poetic and musical legacy.

[Linda Patterson]

As with all of our everything you wanted to know episodes, we have lots of lovely listener questions for you. But as we're talking about troubadours today, I think we need to start with the broad Strokes. The contextual question, what exactly was a troubadour?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Okay. Well, a troubadour was a poet, musician, active in the south of France and many other places in the 12th and 13th centuries, starting actually at the very end of the 11th century. And they sang in a language which we call Occitane, which is a fancy word for Provencale.

[Linda Patterson]

Perfect. And this is a question we have had from Diana Stanford on Facebook, who's just asked, could we say they were essentially medieval buskers?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Yes, I like that question in a way, but I think it's important to make a distinction between troubadours and jongleurs, or joglars, as they said in Oxdam. Just to keep it simple. There's a difference between a troubadour who is a composer and a jongleur who is a performer, a singer, although they could be the same person, and somebody could start off as a jongleur and become a composer or vice versa. They're going to be mainly interested in performing where people are going to pay them well or give them a nice present, like a horse or a cloak, say. And so the courts are important. And a court is either somewhere static, like you go to someone's house or palace and you perform there, or it could be actually traveling around with a lord, because a court is essentially where a lord is. But they can also be performing wherever crowds gather. They're likely to be some sort of payment on offer. They certainly could perform in an open space or a pub, but that probably won't be the preferred place. So busker's up to a point. But I think one needs to remember that troubadours are actually singing often very refined compositions. They might be political, they might be even rude. They certainly would be entertaining. But I think of my son going busking in Stratford on Avon. He turns up with his girlfriend and a guitar without any intention. Particularly, a crowd gathers and people actually give them money. So I think the troubadours would be a bit more professional than that.

[Linda Patterson]

That answers perfectly another question we've had on Threads, which is about where they perform. Were they always wandering? Sort of. Seems that there's a bit of both there. But you mentioned there about almost being attached to the courts. Were they always attached to a noble patron at all?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

No, they could be. Some troubadours stayed in the same court for a long time, and that was the ideal for them, really, because they got board and lodging, they got gifts with luck. They used to sing in their songs a lot about how virtuous it was for a lord to be generous. That was one of the key troubadour virtues, largesse. But they could also go on tour. A recommended tour was to go to the seigneurial courts in the Carcassaise. That was a good summer. Or they would travel with a lord. So the troubadour Reimattrath was attached to his patron, Boniface Mauperrat, who actually knighted him. This was a very rare event, but he really made a career that that way. And he travelled to Italy and he travelled to Greece with him, and that's where he and his patron died.

[Linda Patterson]

Did troubadours play a role beyond entertainment?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Yes, certainly. I think most importantly, they promulgated and formulated courtly values. They represented courtly values. That's one thing. Another is that I think they had quite a strong political force, because if you were a lord fighting for a particular cause, it was quite useful to have troubadours singing propaganda songs about it.

[Linda Patterson]

How were they then received by the Church?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Yeah, that's a good question. The Church didn't make too much of a fuss in the early days, although they were critical of the first troubadour, William IX of Aquitaine. He sang both courtly songs and some pretty obscene ones. And they didn't like the obscene ones. They said he went on Crusade, but he came back and he sang all these rowdy songs and it was complete disgrace. After the Third Crusade, or rather after the fall of Jerusalem, after the defeat at Hattin by Saladin, there's a feeling around that courtly songs might not be very appropriate anymore. And so the troubadours are having to resist that. If you go back before the troubadours, there are many, many documents about the Church criticizing singers for being obscene, mainly.

[Linda Patterson]

So we should probably go and have a look at their early origins, then. How did the troubadour tradition come about? How did it almost become a role in society?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Yeah, it's a big mystery. I think you can say that there's a long tradition of singing in the vernacular that hasn't got recorded. But we know about it from the Church's critical remarks about them. Women's songs, dance songs, rude songs. I'm sure that feeds into the troubadour tradition. As far as the music and the verse forms go, you can say that there is certainly some influence of Latin church music, possibly Latin secular music. Some people think that the Arabs had a lot to do with it. There are similarities that people have noticed between courtly love of the troubadours and Love, as is sung by the Arabs. There's even a famous miniature which shows an Arab musician performing alongside a Christian one. So that's one possibility. Another feature of this is that if you think of the situation in the court, where there'll be a lot of young men who have come to be brought up at court, more young men than women. They're encouraged to be polite to their patrons or their lord's wife. It's one way of flattering the lord himself and making sure you're in his best books. And then there are courtly entertainments, there is courtly leisure, where women, young girls are brought in. So you can see how love songs can be an important thing in that environment. But it doesn't really explain why it's special there. It remains a bit of a mystery.

[Linda Patterson]

While we're talking about these origins, what exactly does the word troubadour actually mean?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Well, the most obvious meaning is finder, somebody who finds. I used to think that this linked up with medieval rhetoric. I'm not so sure now. Some people think it comes from the idea of tropes in medieval Latin music. So a troubadour would be a tropator, a composer of tropes. I don't really buy that myself. I think finding is the thing. They're inventors, they're creators.

[Linda Patterson]

And this is a question we've had from Ystrad History on X and they've asked, was historic Accutane especially blessed with them or is it just that it is now better known for them?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

I don't know if it is better known for them. Actually. The troubadour tradition starts in Aquitaine and the Limousin, and then it spreads, it spreads all over. So I don't think Aquitaine is particularly blessed, it's just that things start there.

[Linda Patterson]

With the first troubadour, whereabouts does it spread to?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

It spreads to the Languedoc, with Toulouse particularly as an important centre, the Pyrenees, Spain. And then going in the other direction, it goes to the Auvergne, to Provence, to Italy. One or two troubadours seem to have gone to northern France and England, maybe one. In each case, the early troubadour Jaufli Rudel goes to the Holy Land and that gives rise to a very famous story about him. And later, Reimbart de Vaqueras goes on the Fourth Crusade, which was supposed to go to the Holy Land, but it ended up going to Greece instead. I mean, that's where it spreads to. Except that it also feeds in to genre in other areas. So to Romance in Northern France, in Germany. Oh, and I forgot to mention that it's picked up by the Minnesenger in Germany.

[Linda Patterson]

So were these sort of other contemporary groups.

[McDonald's Advertiser]

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[Linda Patterson]

Okay, brilliant. And who became a troubadour and why?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Okay, that's a good question. Anybody could do it. From a king to a count to a lord to a knight to a burgher. I think anyone down the social scale, but probably not a farmer, not a peasant. The people at the top of the scale became it because it gave you prestige, because it was a courtly thing to do. So the king of Farragon enjoys having a dialogue song with a troubadour. Gear out, de Bornelia. About the topic. Is a lady wise to accept the love of a prince or a king? And you can see that the king has an interest in this. So, yes, at the top of the scale, it's because it's a prestigious thing to do. Further down the scale, it's more a question of money, so you hope to get a gift or board and lodging and so on. Sometimes people drop out of school. So Arnaut Daniel started learning letters with the idea that he would enter the church at some point, and he decided that was not for him. As far as we know, he became a jongleur, but he also became the most highly praised troubadour by the Italian poet Dante. So anybody could do it? Pretty much.

[Linda Patterson]

This is the most popular question we've had sent in by our listeners. There's so many different names I could shout about here, but could women be troubadours?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Absolutely, but there were fewer of them. Now, I jotted down some numbers here because I wouldn't remember, but I'll tell you what they are. So there are something like 460 troubadours altogether, and we know of approximately 20 named women troubadours. So it's a lot in some ways. You know, it's a lot if you think about how many there are in northern France or Germany or anywhere else. But it's very small number in comparison with the male troubadours. Of the poems that have survived, we've got about 2,500 texts altogether that have been passed on. Of those, 25 are attributable to women. Mind you, there are quite a lot of anonymous poems, and some of those could be by women, but we just don't know. So, yes, women could certainly be troubadours.

[Linda Patterson]

Did their role or identity differ in any way, or were they actually remarkably similar to their contemporaries.

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Yeah, that's another good question. This can be similar, but they've got constraints, and particularly in the Courtly Love Song, they're in a bit of a bind because the courtly lady is supposed to be distant and difficult to approach, not the one who is asking for love from somebody else. And they actually comment on this. They say, well, you know, a woman isn't supposed to do this, and yet I just so much want to have my lover in my arms and for him to stay the whole night with me and do whatever I ask of him. So they do sing erotic songs, but they're limited in what they can do. They sing political songs too, a few, but the main thing they're occupied with is debate songs, and so they're debating almost always with a man. They debate on just a complete range of topics. There's a troubadour, he writes a kind of guide to good behavior of young women, and he says if you do compose, if you do get involved in debate poems, keep them clean.

[Linda Patterson]

A good guide there.

[McDonald's Advertiser]

I think.

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[Linda Patterson]

Okay, so this brings us Very much On to what exactly did they write about. They sing about, we've said, some debates. There's some courtly love ideas coming through as well.

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Courtly love songs, that was regarded as the highest form. Courtly love is about desire, just on the edge of fulfillment. So the troubadours sing of their longing for their lady and they ask for the rest, but we don't tend to hear about that. On the other hand, lots of political songs, debate songs, rude songs, entertaining songs, songs about the Crusades. They can write about anything, actually. Oh, social behaviour, norms of social behaviour. So courtly values, these are the key things.

[Linda Patterson]

Were there any particularly popular subjects?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Well, courtly love, I think it probably depended on the time. I mean, at the time of Crusades, that it was popular to talk about them. And at the time of political conflict, that would be the obvious thing to talk about.

[Linda Patterson]

Obviously, courtly love is such a prominent part of what they write about. How did these ideals change?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

I think what I'd say about the troubadours is that they develop ideas about love. They're not monolithic. So I did mention this key thing about love based on distance. But not all troubadours sing about distant love. So to give an idea of the development with the first troubadour, people have pored over his six songs, only five of them anything to do with love, and half of them are in fact rather obscene, but interesting. When he does talk about a more ideal view of love, it's not love based on distance. There's one poem, it's true that it's not entirely sure that he wrote it, but he says he can't wait to get his hands under his lady's cloak. And that's the sense that you get from the first troubadour. Here is a very self confident, fun, very skillful entertainer who has ideas of the joy of love which he, you know, he just gives himself to. Now, somebody who was at the court of his son, William X, is very well known. He's Jaffod Rudel, whom I've mentioned, and for him love is based on distance. And his songs are actually quite vague, so that you can interpret them in a lot of ways that you like. Some people think that the lady in his songs actually means Virgin Mary, or they think it means the Holy Land, or they think it means something else, but the idea is kind of unfulfilled longing. Now along comes the troubadour Marcabreu, who is a very fine poet, he's a misogynist, quite a Violent writer. And he's very much against the aristocratic way of carrying on. He accuses the aristocrat men getting into the beds of other men's wives and spawning bastards who contaminate the bloodline. So you can see that's a very different take on love. But he also does say some positive things about it. You could relate them to Christian ideas, except they're not said in a Christian way. So love is about something that is shared between two people and it's accompanied by all sorts of virtues like honesty and frankness and kindness and, well, largesse does come into it as well. And then after Marcabreu, we come on to Bernhardt de Venturedorn, who is probably the most appealing, instantly appealing, of all the troubadours. And there you have the idea of love longing, which isn't fulfilled, but, you know, who knows about what actually happened? That's a completely different question. And so at that point, things tend to crystallise, but each troubadour has a different take on it. And in fact, the troubadour tradition is based on the idea of taking issue with the previous tradition and doing better and doing something new, with all these.

[Linda Patterson]

Different ideas surrounding love that come from the troubadours. There's a popular perception of the troubadours as someone who beds women, escapes out of windows that we see in popular culture, perhaps someone like Yaskia or Dandelion in the Witcher book series, which is a TV series now as well. And this is a question we've had specifically from Geri Naomi on X, who's asked specifically, is this perception true?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Yes, I thought it was a very funny question. I had to look up the Witcher thing because I don't know it. We don't know what people actually did, do we? I think the stories that that question mentioned, you'd be more likely to find in Chaucer. I mean, troubadours don't tend to tell stories. Although, going back to the first troubadour, William the Ninth, he does tell quite a funny one where he claims that he's wandering through the Auvergne disguised as a pilgrim with the idea of bedding women. And he comes across a couple and they are very keen, but they don't want to be tricked. So they say, well, I think this chap is what we're looking for. But we put him to the test. So they get a really big marmalade cat and they scratch him from top to toe to see if he confesses to being out to trick them. And he doesn't utter a word. And so they say, right, this is fine, let's prepare the bath and the nice peppered chicken, and we're going to have a jolly good time. And he ends up by saying stuff that I can't repeat, but he says how many times he did it with them, and it was 184, and then he was completely broken. However, that's not that typical. They certainly talked about sex a lot in the love poetry. They talk about it in a gentle sort of way, like, I would like to be there when my lady goes to bed and I would like to take her slipper off her foot. But in the debate poems, there are a lot of debate poems which deal with questions such as, which would you rather have three jars of rocket, which is an aphrodisiac, or three women who are likely to be very voracious. And the idea is that you propose this topic to somebody else and they have to choose a side, and then you argue it back and forth, or perhaps slightly more politely, but not very much. Your lady will go to bed with you as long as you promise that you won't sleep with anyone else. So should you accept or not? And so they debate this back and forth. So, yeah, they talk about it a lot, what they did. I mean, I think given that Markerbrew is complaining about what goes on, I guess there was a lot of it, but jumping in and out of windows, I don't know. I mean, you take your opportunities, I suppose.

[Linda Patterson]

Okay. There's so many stories and different topics we could talk about here. Kate Davids on Threads and Roberta Alessandra on Facebook have asked us, where did they get their ideas from? Was it original material? Did they cite older sources? Did they riff off each other?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Yeah, I think there's very little evidence of any poems that have survived that were improvised. But the other side of this, which is borrowing from other people. Absolutely all the time. So they borrowed each other's tunes. Sometimes they say they're doing that, sometimes they don't. And it's okay to do that. If you're composing a courtly love song, you're supposed to produce an original tune. But if you're composing what's called a Syrventes, which is a moralising or political song, then it's quite normal and quite acceptable to borrow a tune. And the same goes for the other genre as well. And it's a very interesting way of actually tracking how tunes and ideas and forms go from one place to the other, and one poet to Another. So, yes, they absolutely did, and it was an acceptable thing to do.

[Linda Patterson]

Obviously, they're composing these tunes. Can you tell us more about their artistry, their musical structures, their poetic styles?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Okay, can I start with poetic styles? They actually invented a lot of different styles, which are called Trobar Clus, Trobar Leo, Trobar Prib and so on. This is the closed or somewhat obscure or dark way of composing, where the meaning isn't immediately apparent, or the light or open way of composing, which is supposed to be more accessible, or the delicate, finely chiseled way of composing, or the rough way of composing, which is very suitable for moralising poems, but it actually gets absorbed also into the love poetry. So that's the different styles. As far as the verse forms go, as I mentioned, if you're composing a love song, you're expected to produce a new one. And There are over 900 different verse forms. So in any poem you'll have a number of stanzas. So in a courtly love song, you'll have a song of, say, six stanzas, and then maybe a couple of short ones at the end, which might be sending the song off to somebody or reiterating something. So a stanza will be made up of lines of particular lengths, and they might all be the same, or they might be different. Also, you'll have a stanza of variable numbers of lines, and you might have all sorts of games being played with the different possibilities. And then you have the way in which the stanzas are linked to each other. So sometimes they all have the same rhyme sounds. So they are then called koblas, unisons, stanzas, which have the same sounds. Or you can have them grouped in pairs or in threes, or you can link them by repeating the rhyme sound of the last line of the first stanza into the first line of the next stanza, and so on. And there are lots and lots of different ways of interlinking them. The troubadours talk about intertwining words, and I think this refers not so much just to individual words, but the verse forms. Then perhaps I could give you a quick illustration of a really refined one. Arnott Daniel, again. So it's a poem of six stanzas and of six lines each. So there are six rhyme words, and they're all the same in each stanza, but in a different order. They're very intricate. There is an ending to it. So there are the six stanzas, and then in the last two lines, he uses all six words. And they're difficult words, they're difficult, rare, Words that are difficult to rhyme. So Arnott Daniel was known for his rich and also obscure rhymes, and one commentator said they're actually pretty difficult to say and to remember. Perhaps I should just say about the music, that the music maps onto that. So you might have a repetition of the same rhymes, which would be one musical phrase. So you can have all sorts of possible relationships between tune and words as far as the tunes went. Well, some tunes might be very reminiscent of church music. Plainchant Again, we come back to Mark A, who wrote a very famous poem called Paxi nomine Domine, which actually starts with a line of Latin and it's a kind of preaching poem, and it's about crusading and the tune is very solemn and similar to Gregorian chant. But then there are other songs which are kind of quick and lively. And a later theorist said that if you're composing a Pastorella, you should have something that's a bit quick, and if it's a dancer, then it's got to be lively and like a dance tune. So very varied. There are technical aspects, so there's a difference between a form, which is very common, where you have a repetition of two groups of sounds which are repeated, and then you have a kind of tail on the end of it, or you can have something that is composed all the way through. So it doesn't have repetitions. But I think that's probably as far as I can go in telling you about the music. I'm not a musicologist, so if you want to know how many tunes there were, there are about 250 tunes that have actually survived.

[Linda Patterson]

That's astonishing. This is something, actually, we've been asked by listeners, how have these songs survived?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

They appear in the manuscripts. So a lot of the poems, in fact, in one manuscript I can think of, which is known as manuscript R, I think all the poems have staves written at the beginning. Sometimes they don't have notation on them, so you know that the person compiling the manuscript rather hoped that a tune would turn up, but they didn't, and so they couldn't write anything in. But a lot of them will have notes written on the staves, and that's how we have an idea of what they sounded like. I mean, they need a lot of interpretation. Not exactly like modern stays, for one thing, there are only four lines, not five. There aren't bar lines. There's a lot of debate about how rhythmical or not rhythmical they are. So there's a lot of room for modern musicians to interpret how to Play them.

[Linda Patterson]

Is there anywhere that our listeners could go and have a listen to some of these recreations?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Yeah, go to YouTube. All you need to know is the name of a troubadour. Of course, not all troubadours have songs that survive, but if you go for Marcabreu or an au Daniel, just put it in YouTube and you'll find something. Or the Countess of D, the Contessa de Dia, you can hear her song.

[Linda Patterson]

Amazing. We've mentioned so many different names here. What are some of the most famous troubadours that we should know about and what made them stand out?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Well, the first troubadour, William IX of Aquitaine, because he's such a tremendous personality, but also a very gifted poet and very playful, but both serious and playful. So I mentioned the obscene ones or the rude ones. They're good fun. And the love songs are lovely too. And also, I mean, he's probably more powerful than the king of France. In around 1100, the King of France really only is properly in charge of the Ile de France. France isn't united. He's not got control over the rest of it. So, you know, he's a very interesting character. I think I'll out Daniel, go to him next because he's probably the best in some ways. He's in the best. He's the most refined, the most beautiful, and Dante certainly thought he was the best.

[Linda Patterson]

Good recommendation from Dante there.

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Linda Patterson]

So. So how would they have actually performed their work? If we were to envision it in our minds, they're obviously composing, but if they were singing, were they just singing or were they more jack of all trades? Entertainers?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Yeah, we know of one troubadour who played the vielle. Apart from that, we don't know whether troubadours played instruments or whether they were accompanied by instruments. There's certainly no reason why they wouldn't have been, but there isn't evidence from the poems to suggest it. So I think they would be standing up and singing and declaiming. My own feeling is that there are some poems where they really cry out for some sort of dramatization. And you can imagine, particularly where a poet is taking on a different Persona. So the troubadour markerbrew. His most common Persona is that of a preacher, because he's a moralist, but he also sometimes takes on the Persona of a wicked person or particularly a lustful person. And I could imagine using props or masks, but a lot is actually left to our imagination. So I think basically they stood up and performed or they maybe they sat opposite each other and performed. There's a group of troubadours late in the 13th century, the brothers Ucel. Two of them sang, one of them composed love songs, one of them composed. One of them played the Viel, I think it was. But you could imagine the four of them just sitting in front of their audience, who would have just been their friends, basically, people who came to visit them and they would have been performing like that, as if they were in the little studio. I think there's a somewhat different situation. There's a crusade that people haven't heard much about, but it's called the Aragonese Crusade, where the King of France is invading Aragon and going across the Pyrenees. And there's a great collection of almost one liners. They're not one liners, but short poems which are kind of sent across the Pyrenees, taunting the other side and stirring up your own side. So I could imagine those being sung where there's an army, you know, at an army camp.

[Linda Patterson]

While we're talking about crusades, southern France is an area that is known for the troubadours, but it's also known for the Albigensian Crusade. How did the wider political, religious, social climate surrounding this affect troubadour culture?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Well, I think it was very damaging because it really put an end to a lot of the courts, which was the lifeblood of the troubadours. I mean, at the time there were certainly troubadours who joined in and sang about it, usually in opposition to the French invaders. So it was a stimulus and the tradition didn't die, but it closed down some of the courts and it meant that a lot of troubadours did actually emigrate to Spain and Italy. It certainly fired up a lot of passion very quickly.

[Linda Patterson]

Can we just clarify what actually was the Albigensian Crusade?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Yeah, well, it was a crusade launched by the Pope Innocent III to extirpate heresy in the south, mainly the Cathar heresy, although there were other heresies. So for quite a long time in the 12th century, the church had been worried about this and it had sent various papal legates to try and convert the locals and put pressure on them to get rid of the Cathars. And the response was generally, we don't particularly like you because you come all kind of pompous and dressed up. And we like what the Cathars are saying because they're saying we should get back to the purity of the early Church. And anyway, they're all friends and neighbours, so we're not going to throw them out. And in the end, what precipitated it was a papal legate got killed as he was crossing the road on his way back to Rome. And this was a kind of pretext to launch a crusade. So the main leader that we get to hear about is Simon de Montfort, who is a Frenchman. And for the southerners, this was a northern French invasion. The culture in the south is about courtliness rather than chivalry. Chivalry is essentially. Well, it's essentially growing in the north of France, and although it does make an appearance, it does gradually penetrate the south. It's later. And also southerners have got a lot of reservations about it because they see what northern French knights get up to, so they're not terribly impressed.

[Linda Patterson]

Good point of clarity there, because I think so often the chivalry gets tied in with the courtliness.

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Yeah. And I think it's a good idea to keep them separate.

[Linda Patterson]

Good to know. You also mentioned how the Albigensian Crusade ties into a sort of decline of the troubadours beyond the Albigensian Crusade. Why did it decline?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

Yes. I don't know. I mean, I'm not sure that I'm very happy with this idea of decline. I think it changes. There's a lot more political poetry in the 13th century after the Albigensia Crusade. And anyway, the tradition carries on in Spain right till the 15th century, in both Catalan and Castilian and in Italy, and through to the Dolces sti novo and Dante in the Minnesenga. You can't really read Chaucer without. Well, you can read Chaucer, obviously, but, you know, it helps to go back to the troubadours to see where that all comes from. So it just. The ideas filter through and expand right through Europe and beyond and in fact, persist for a very long time. I mean, romantic fiction in the 19th century owes a lot to the troubadours.

[Linda Patterson]

With that in mind, how have the troubadours been remembered and mythologised in later centuries?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

I mean, you can think of romantic tales such as Ivanhoe. Romantic novels, I think, owe something to the troubadours. There's a lot of confusion around the troubadours. Something I found online was that Roland was a famous troubadour. Now, I don't know if this means anything to you, but the Song of Roland is about a war between Christians and Muslims at the time of Charlemagne, and it's got absolutely nothing whatever to do with courtly love or troubadours and he certainly wasn't a troubadour, he was a hero. He was an epic hero. So, I don't know. I mean, I think there are still a lot of people in France in particular, who like to think of themselves as troubadours, who make CDs and sing, and I think they like the idea of the wandering minstrel.

[Linda Patterson]

As a final question to you, then, are there any common or popular misconceptions that you'd like to debunk, you'd like to break?

[McDonald's Advertiser]

I think there are a couple. One is, and I mentioned both of them, actually. One of them is that you shouldn't generalise about the troubadours because they're actually very creative and innovative and different one from another. And the other is that chivalry isn't the same as courtliness. There are some elements that come in, but chivalry isn't really what the troubadours are about.

[Emily Priffet]

That was Linda Patterson, professor emerita at the University of Warwick and the author of the Troubadours. She was speaking to Emily Priffet. Thanks for listening. This podcast was produced by Daniel Kramer Arden.