HistoryExtra Podcast Summary

Episode Title: Untold LGBTQ stories of the National Trust
Air Date: February 6, 2026
Host: Charlotte Vosper
Guest: Michael Hall, author of "A Queer Inheritance: Alternative Histories of the National Trust"

Episode Overview

This episode explores the rich but often overlooked queer histories woven into the properties and origins of the UK’s National Trust. Host Charlotte Vosper speaks with historian and author Michael Hall about his new book, "A Queer Inheritance," which uncovers the hidden lives and legacies of LGBTQ individuals who have shaped some of Britain’s most cherished estates and country homes. Drawing on personal stories, changing social attitudes, and questions of historical interpretation, the conversation reflects on how these queer connections have influenced both the properties themselves and our understanding of heritage.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

The National Trust and Its Overlooked Queer Connections

• Origins Amidst Criminalization

  • The National Trust was founded in 1895, at a time when same-sex acts were illegal in Britain and homosexuality was headline news due to the Oscar Wilde trials (00:05–02:08).
  • Early connections to notable queer individuals, including Lord Rosebery, who nearly became embroiled in the Wilde scandal, show the Trust’s early, if unspoken, proximity to queer history.

• Defining ‘Queer’ in a Historical Context

  • Hall reflects on the usefulness of "queer" as a broad and deliberately anachronistic term for exploring historical sexual and gender difference without imposing modern labels (03:29–05:43).
    • “Queer is quite useful because you can use it and a modern audience knows what that means, but it's not imposing something on the past.” – Michael Hall (04:33)

Notable Queer Figures and National Trust Properties

• Selected Stories from the Book

  • Kingston Lacey: William Bankes, exiled following a scandal, directed renovations from afar after being caught with a guardsman (05:59–07:10).
  • Smallhythe Place: Once home to Ellen Terry, inherited and transformed by her daughter Edith Craig— a feminist and theater director, who lived with her lovers, forming a hub of lesbian culture (07:11–08:28).
  • Clouds Hill: T. E. Lawrence (Lawrence of Arabia)’s reclusive cottage, with subtle clues—like a room lined with silver paper—possibly signaling his connections to queer networks (11:10–12:19).
  • Vita Sackville-West at Knole & Sissinghurst: Her influence pervades these properties, even where material traces are minimal, because of her relationship with Virginia Woolf and her open identity (08:56–10:51).

• Queer Networks in the Country House World

  • Properties often connect through personal and social networks—Radclyffe Hall, E.F. Benson, Lamb House, and many others formed social webs whose stories intersected in these spaces (12:24–12:58).
    • “It’s all about networks.” – Michael Hall (12:51)

Why Were So Many Properties Bequeathed by Queer Owners?

• Landownership, Social Status, and Queerness
  • Many bequests came from bachelors or unmarried women from wealthy, often industrial, backgrounds. Their investments in assembling collections and gardens sometimes reflected personal identities and a desire for preservation (08:56–10:51).
    • “I wanted to write about places that queer people had shaped in some way, either by building them, decorating them, furnishing them, or by making them part of their life history.” – Michael Hall (09:46)
  • The intersection between class privilege and the ability to express or live out queer identity is explored, with notable examples like the 5th Marquess of Anglesey (“The Dancing Marquis”). Wealth enabled exhibitionism but also brought increased scrutiny (13:30–15:24).

Gender, Marriage, and Inheritance

• Navigating Expectations
  • For queer women and men, class and inheritance laws often necessitated marriages of convenience, especially pre-First World War. Vita Sackville-West and Harold Nicolson are used as a prime example of a loving relationship between two queer individuals who also had same-sex relationships (23:28–24:18).
  • Women often faced unique challenges—unable to inherit or pressured into marriage—but sometimes carved space for themselves through performance or the arts (21:36–23:12).
    • “She had to really fight for it in a way that I think a woman who was less embedded in her class might have found it easier, possibly.” – Michael Hall (15:31)

Evidence, Interpretation, and Telling Queer History

• Challenges of Historical Interpretation

  • The sources for many stories are mediated through trial records or official biographies, with some—like the story of Fanny and Stella—only accessible in highly publicized, often prejudiced, legal accounts (20:17–21:18).
  • Hall cautions about projecting modern identities too rigidly onto historical figures but encourages interpretive openness (19:13–20:07).

• Searching for Subtle Clues

  • Modern readers may find the clues to queer presence in historic homes—whether decor choices or social networks—if they “tune in.” Victorian society was often aware of same-sex relationships, even if coded or unspoken (24:43–26:13).

Homophobia, Institutional Dynamics, and Shifts in Public History

• Internal National Trust Politics

  • In the 1960s–70s, homophobia shaped internal power struggles between “land agents” and the group dubbed the “bachelors” running the houses, with public criticism often laced with coded or open homophobia (26:44–29:22).
    • “One of the ways…people who thought the National Trust wasn’t paying enough attention…were very happy to leverage criticism through homophobia and making life tricky for gay men within the National Trust.” – Michael Hall (28:07)
  • The Trust’s official recognition of its queer past has only recently become explicit—with publications on same-sex relationships at Sissinghurst and elsewhere appearing as late as 2008 (29:22–29:28).

• **Backlash and ‘Outing’

  • Some controversy persists, especially regarding the ethics of ‘outing’ historical figures. Hall argues this is misplaced; such resistance suggests lingering shame around homosexuality, rather than a valid concern for the long-dead (29:28–30:31).
    • “I don’t really think the idea of outing someone makes any sense about somebody in the past. It’s a political term...It doesn’t make any sense to talk about historic figures in terms of outing, I don’t think.” – Michael Hall (29:55)

The Future of Queer Heritage

• Expanding the Field
  • Hall hopes "Queer Inheritance" encourages even greater exploration—especially by women and younger historians—into aspects like gender identity and queer ecology, as heritage studies begin to catch up with literary queer studies (31:02–32:15).
    • “Queer history is a very, very rich subject. Even for the National Trust. There’s huge amounts more that can be said.” – Michael Hall (31:03)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Applying 'Queer' as a Historical Term:
  • "Queer is quite useful because you can use it and a modern audience knows what that means, but it's not imposing something on the past." – Michael Hall (04:33)
• On Networks in the Queer Heritage World:
  • “It’s all about networks.” – Michael Hall (12:51)
• On Class Enabling and Exposing Queerness:
  • "He was able to do what he did because he was very, very rich...but the sort of downside was enormous public curiosity about him...endless stories about him in the press." – Michael Hall, discussing the Dancing Marquis (14:03)
• On Outing Historical Figures:
  • "I don’t really think the idea of outing someone makes any sense about somebody in the past...It doesn’t make any sense to talk about historic figures in terms of outing, I don’t think." – Michael Hall (29:55)
• On the Potential Impact of His Book:
  • "A woman would have written a completely different book, I think. And also a young person would have written...a very different book. And they would have come at it in really interesting, different ways." – Michael Hall (31:27)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• National Trust foundation and queer context: 00:05–02:08
• Defining ‘queer’ historically: 03:29–05:43
• Stories of key queer landowners/estates: 05:59–10:51
• Queer networks & property bequests: 12:24–13:30
• Class and queerness: 13:30–16:05
• Gender, inheritance, marriage: 21:36–24:18
• Finding evidence and historical perspective: 24:43–26:13
• Homophobia inside the National Trust: 26:44–29:22
• Official vs. unofficial recognition of queer past: 29:22–30:31
• Future of queer heritage and hopes for the book: 31:02–32:15

Tone and Atmosphere

The episode is thoughtful and academic but remains conversational, accessible, and peppered with personal anecdotes and wry humor. Hall maintains a reflective and open tone, encouraging listeners to question narratives, notice subtle details, and consider the evolving landscape of queer history scholarship.

Takeaway

"Untold LGBTQ stories of the National Trust" reveals the myriad ways queer individuals have shaped British heritage—often quietly, sometimes defiantly—while also highlighting the evolving willingness of national institutions, historians, and the public to recognize and celebrate those contributions. Hall’s analysis urges us to regard our historic buildings not merely as bricks and mortar, but as living evidence of intertwined lives, identities, and networks that have shaped culture across generations.