Who stole the Tudor crown?

Summary

History Extra Podcast — "Who Stole the Tudor Crown?"

Date: November 14, 2025
Guests: Historian Tracey Borman
Host: Rob Attar

---

Episode Overview

This episode explores a groundbreaking discovery that challenges centuries of accepted history regarding the Tudor-Stuart succession. Historian Tracey Borman discusses new research revealing that Elizabeth I never named her successor, calling into question the legitimacy and smoothness of the Stuart accession and offering a fresh perspective on one of England’s most pivotal transitions of power.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The British Library Discovery — Rewriting the Succession (03:09–05:53)

• The Find: PhD student Helena Rutovska examined William Camden’s original manuscript (Elizabeth I’s biographer) and, using transmitted light technology, uncovered that significant portions had been altered — with pastings, crossouts, and rewritten sections.
• What was revealed: Under pressure from James I, Camden rewrote sections to portray James more favorably and, crucially, fabricated Elizabeth’s supposed deathbed naming of James as her chosen successor.
• Tracey Borman:

  “All of these pastings over were thanks to James breathing down Camden’s neck and getting him to literally rewrite history... He rewrote the accounts of Elizabeth’s deathbed and put in her mouth words that she never actually said... that’s a complete fabrication.” (03:27–05:30)

---

2. The Politics of Legitimacy — James I’s Motivations (06:09–08:32)

• Why Did James Care? Even years into his reign, James felt his hold on the English throne was tenuous. The Gunpowder Plot (1605) and tension with Parliament and Catholics left his popularity low.
• James’ PR Campaign: The pressure to retroactively secure his legitimacy led James to have Camden "put words in Elizabeth’s mouth." (06:09–08:32)
• Memorable Quote:

  “James really almost has to... put words in Elizabeth’s mouth to make it seem to his English subjects that he was the one Elizabeth wanted. So really it’s Jacobean PR, big time.” (08:20)

---

3. The Effect of Camden’s Annals on Posterity (08:32–11:35)

• Short-term Impact: Camden delayed publishing and only released it in Latin in 1615, limiting its immediate influence.
• Long-term Legacy: Despite limitations in James’ lifetime, Camden’s account shaped historical consensus for generations.
• Tracey’s Reflection:

  “It had a huge impact in the centuries that followed… you just take it as read that Elizabeth left her crown to James.” (10:02)

• Notable Fact: Camden was considered a reliable source, having access to extensive original materials provided by Lord Burleigh.

---

4. Elizabeth I’s Reluctance to Name an Heir (11:47–14:59)

• Main Reasons:
  • Security: Elizabeth experienced first-hand the instability created by rival claimants (her own troubles under Mary I, her sister).
  • Control: Elizabeth wished to keep herself at the center of focus and power (“queen bee in the hive”).
  • Risk: The absence of an heir could’ve led to civil war if she died prematurely (i.e., her smallpox scare).
• Memorable Language:

  “[On Parliament’s pressure] She refers to ‘the labored orations out of jangling mouths’... you can see her fury, the spiky handwriting and the crossings out. She’s like, ‘how dare you ask me about this again! Treason to talk about a sovereign’s death…’” (13:46)

---

5. Main Contenders for the English Throne (15:05–17:40)

• Tangled Claims: Many lines vied for the throne, largely descended from Henry VIII’s sisters, Mary and Margaret.
  • Notable contenders: Mary, Queen of Scots (James’ mother), the Grey sisters (descendants of Mary), Henry Hastings (Earl of Huntingdon, Plantagenet blood), Lady Margaret Stanley, and Isabella, the Spanish Infanta.
  • James’ Claim: Technically illegal under Henry VIII’s laws, which barred the Stuart line.
• Outcome: As rivals dropped away, only James and Arbella Stuart (another Stuart family member) had serious claims by the end.

---

6. Elizabeth’s Divide-and-Conquer Tactics (20:05–22:55)

• Method: Elizabeth maintained ambiguity and played rival claimants against each other — notably manipulating Arbella Stuart's position while ultimately smoothing the way for James.
• Tracey on Elizabeth’s Motivations:

  “She liked to play off the rival claimants against each other, showing favor to one one moment and then to another the next.” (20:17)

• Personal Sentiment: Despite legal technicalities and knowing James’ flaws, Elizabeth considered him the "best of a bad lot."

---

7. The Execution of Mary, Queen of Scots — Impact on Anglo-Scottish Relations (23:05–25:06)

• James’ Ambivalence: Raised hostile to his mother, he was publicly aggrieved by Mary’s execution, but didn’t seriously jeopardize his own claim by acting against Elizabeth.
• Elizabeth’s Evasion: Signed the execution warrant but blamed others — “I never meant [to execute her]," she claimed.
• Tracey’s Summation:

  “And let’s just not mention that small matter of the fact I chopped your mother’s head off.” (25:03)

---

8. Robert Cecil’s Role in the Succession — Backstage Architect (25:18–29:03)

• Strategist: Robert Cecil, son of famed Elizabethan advisor Burleigh, adopted secret correspondence and preparation to facilitate James’ accession — advising both James and securing England against uprisings and foreign claimants.
• Detail: Cecil even drafted James’ accession proclamation before Elizabeth’s death.
• Elizabeth’s Awareness: Likely knew of Cecil’s activities and kept control until the end. Her famous retort to Cecil:

  “Little man must is not a word to use to princes.” (28:55)

---

9. The View from Below — The Common People’s Perspective (30:05–32:16)

• England’s Xenophobia: Significant reluctance to accept a “foreign” Scottish king; many would have favored a native candidate in line with Henry VIII’s wishes.
• Anecdote: The mayor of Northampton refused to proclaim James king until he received a second confirmation from the council, reflecting public suspicion.
• Memorable Terminology:

  “They called them [Scots] beggarly blue caps and all these insulting terms... They didn’t want a Scotsman on the throne of England.” (30:58)

---

10. Rethinking the “Smooth” Succession — Implications of the New Discovery (32:16–34:17)

• Key Revision: The Stuart succession was not a fait accompli; several other claimants had real chances and James’ legitimacy was manufactured after the fact.
• Long-term Consequences: James’ disregard for the English “rules” (especially parliamentary cooperation) set patterns that escalated under his son Charles, ultimately leading to civil war and the temporary end of the monarchy.
• Tracey’s Conclusion:

  “Kings and queens reigned; they didn’t rule. And we could say that had its genesis in this new discovery and in the lie that started the Stuart accession to the throne of England.” (34:11)

---

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• “He rewrote the, the accounts of Elizabeth’s deathbed and put in her mouth words that she never actually said.” – Tracey Borman (05:28)
• “So really it’s Jacobean PR, big time.” – Tracey Borman (08:32)
• “You just take it as read that Elizabeth left her crown to James.” – Tracey Borman (10:05)
• “Treason to talk about a sovereign’s death.” – Tracey Borman, quoting Elizabeth I (13:55)
• “She liked to play off the rival claimants against each other.” – Tracey Borman (20:17)
• “Little man must is not a word to use to princes.” – Elizabeth I to Robert Cecil, as quoted by Tracey Borman (28:55)
• “…the lie that started the Stuart accession to the throne of England.” – Tracey Borman (34:11)

---

Segment Timestamps

• [03:09] — Discovery of Camden’s manuscript alteration
• [05:53] — James I’s motivations for historical revision
• [08:32] — Effect (or lack thereof) of Camden’s Annals in James’s time
• [11:47] — Reasons for Elizabeth’s silence on succession
• [15:05] — Overview of major rival claimants
• [20:05] — Elizabeth’s manipulation of claimants
• [23:05] — The Mary, Queen of Scots episode
• [25:18] — Robert Cecil’s pivotal role
• [30:05] — English public’s view on Scottish succession
• [32:16] — Consequences for our understanding of the Tudor-Stuart transition

---

Final Thoughts

This episode provides a nuanced, revelatory perspective on the Tudor to Stuart transition, challenging established history and highlighting both the manipulations of those in power and the uncertainty of the succession. Tracey Borman’s engaging storytelling, grounded in new research, offers fresh insight into Elizabethan statecraft, dynastic rivalry, and how the rewriting of history can shape perceptions for centuries.

Recommended for anyone interested in Tudor/Stuart history, royal succession, or the ways historical 'facts' can be shaped by political needs.

Transcript

[Shopify/Mint Mobile Advertiser]

It's that time of year again. Everyone knows that the holidays can become overwhelming quickly, so the sooner you get things done, the better for both shoppers and businesses. The best time to score great deals during the holidays is Black Friday Cyber Monday weekend. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world, from household names to entrepreneurs who are participating in their first Black Friday Cyber Monday this year. This Black Friday join thousands of new entrepreneurs hearing for the first time with Shopify Celebrity. Sign up for your free trial [e-mail] promo. That's shopify.com promo go to shopify.com promo and make this Black Friday one to remember. So good.

[Nordstrom Rack/HelloFresh/Progressive Insurance Advertiser]

So good.

[Historian Tracey Borman]

So good.

[Nordstrom Rack/HelloFresh/Progressive Insurance Advertiser]

Score holiday gifts Everyone wants for way less at your Nordstrom Rack store.

[Historian Tracey Borman]

Save on Ugg, Nike, Rag and Bone, Vince Frame, Kurt Geiger, London and more.

[Nordstrom Rack/HelloFresh/Progressive Insurance Advertiser]

Cause there's always something new.

[Historian Tracey Borman]

I'm giving all the gifts this year with that extra 5% off when I use my Nordstrom Credit car Santa who.

[Nordstrom Rack/HelloFresh/Progressive Insurance Advertiser]

Join the Nordy Club at Nordstrom Rack to unlock our best deals.

[Historian Tracey Borman]

It's easy. Big gifts, big perks. That's why you rack. This episode is brought to you by Rumchata, a delicious, creamy blend of horchata with rum. It's best enjoyed over ice or in your coffee. Rumchata delivering vacation vibes any way or anywhere you drink it. Find out [e-mail] drink responsibly Caribbean rum.

[Nordstrom Rack/HelloFresh/Progressive Insurance Advertiser]

With real dairy cream, natural and artificial flavors.

[Historian Tracey Borman]

Alcohol 13.75% by volume 27.5 proof Copyright 2025 Agave Loco Brands, Pojoaquee, Wisconsin. All rights reserved.

[Shopify/Mint Mobile Advertiser]

If we knew more about our sleep, what would we do differently? Would we go to bed at a consistent time or take steps to reduce interruptions to our sleep? With the all new Sleep Score, Apple Watch measures your bedtime consistency, interruptions and sleep duration. Then every morning it combines these factors into an easy to Understand score from 1 to to 100 so you'll know how to take the quality of your sleep from good to excellent. Introducing the new Sleep Score on Apple Watch iPhone 11 or later required.

[Podcast Host Rob Attar]

Welcome to the History Extra Podcast. Fascinating historical conversations from the makers of BBC History Magazine. On her deathbed, Elizabeth I named the Scottish King James VI as her successor, ensuring a smooth transition from the Tudor to the Stuart monarchies. That, at least, is what we've long believed. But an explosive new discovery cast doubt on this version of events, suggesting that the Stuart succession was far less secure than we may have thought. In her book, the Stolen Crown Historian Tracey Borman draws on this research to paint a vivid new picture of these turbulent years. And in today's episode, she explores the subject further in conversation with Rob Attar.

[Interviewer]

Could we please begin with something that happened at the British Library recently? Yes, there was a discovery made that could transform our understanding of the Stuart succession. Could you please explain what was found out?

[Historian Tracey Borman]

Absolutely. This is groundbreaking research by the British Library and working with a PhD student, Helena Rutovska, who was studying William Camden and his Annals of Elizabeth. So William Camden was Elizabeth I's earliest biographer. His account has been used by historians for 400 years since it was published. And what Helena was doing was to look at the original manuscript of Camden, 4,000 pages of it, and what she noticed was that quite a few of those pages had pastings over, almost like, you know, new text had been pasted over the original and also lots and lots of crossings out. Well, the British Library employed this quite cutting edge technology with the transfer of light, transmitted light, to show the text underneath these pasted over sections. And that really was when it got quite interesting because what it showed is that William Camden, who we know actually didn't finish his biography of Elizabeth in her lifetime and wanted it just to go away. This was not a project he had any enthusiasm for. But when James I was on the throne, he forced Camden to restart and to finish his biography of Elizabeth. And so what happened was all of these pastings over were thanks to James breathing down Camden's neck and getting him to literally rewrite history. So, for example, write a more favourable account of his mother, Mary Queen of Scots, who hadn't been shown in the best light in Camden's original. But crucially, and this is the really earth shattering thing, he rewrote the, the accounts of Elizabeth's deathbed and put in her mouth words that she never actually said. So Elizabeth, now we know, thanks to this British Library research, died without ever naming her successor. Now, she'd resisted pressure to do so throughout her 44 year reign, but the accepted wisdom, thanks to Camden's published account, is that almost with her last breath she says, I want the King of Scots to succeed me. But what the British Library and Helena have found is that that's a complete fabrication and that the original text says nothing of the sort. It just describes Elizabeth's sort of dying moments. She's pretty much beyond speech by that point, so she couldn't have named her successor even if she'd wanted to. But then it's rewritten and it's rewritten in James's favour. So that really is quite a moment when it comes to historical discoveries, that is.

[Interviewer]

And it's interesting because when James orders or encourages Camden to do this, he is king. He has already succeeded Elizabeth I, he's been on the throne for many years. Why, at this point, does he feel the need to legitimise something that has already successfully happened?

[Historian Tracey Borman]

Well, that's a great question, because actually, by the time James commissions Camden to restart this history, it's 1608. So you're right, James is already king. He's been king for five years, but he is clinging on by his fingertips to power. In Eng. Three years earlier, there has been the Gunpowder Plot, which aimed to assassinate James and his entire government. His popularity takes a nose dive very soon after he becomes King of England. And it's ironic because there's been such celebrations to welcome James, because at last there's a king after three queens in a row. We've had 50 years of queens. People of England have had enough. It really ought to be a man in charge. But then very, very quickly, James upsets pretty much everybody, and in particular Parliament, because he's used to the divine right of kings in Scotland, which he takes to the extremes. And Parliament can't oppose him. They're really there just to rubber stamp his will. It's very different in England and the Tudors, powerful though they were, had ruled in partnership with Parliament. James isn't prepared to do that and he's finding Parliament very difficult. It's refusing to, for example, agree to a formal union between England and Scotland. And so things start to fall apart very, very quickly. And also, James upsets Catholics by his harsh persecutions and that's what led to the Gunpowder Plot. And people are starting to question his right to Gloriana's throne. And this is in the midst of this kind of renaissance of all things Elizabethan. People start to celebrate Elizabeth's accession day again. And suddenly the rose tinted specks come on. And Elizabeth, and I am a big Elizabeth fan, Rob, as you know, she can do no wrong in the eyes of James's subjects. And so James really almost has to. Well, he does put words in Elizabeth's mouth to make it seem to his English subjects that he was the one Elizabeth wanted. And so that's why it's crucial for him to have Camden rewrite his account so that it's favourable to him, so that it makes it clear, yes, Elizabeth definitely wanted me to be King of England. So really it's Jacobean Prince, big time.

[Interviewer]

Do we know if this worked to any extent. Did this version of history that was then published in this book, did that change any minds or did that aid his popularity?

[Historian Tracey Borman]

Well, it's a really good question because actually William Camden, as I said, he didn't really want to write the Annals to begin with because it's a pretty gargantuan task. He certainly didn't want to finish it with James breathing down his neck. So what Camden did was to take his merry old time and he delayed as much as possible and he made excuses about, oh, I've got all this voluminous source material to go through and eventually the first installment. So there were two instalments of the Annals. The first installment was published in 1615, but Camden insisted it only be published in Latin. So actually most people wouldn't really have been able to read it and understand it. So the impact probably was quite minimal. And then the second instalment was only published 10 years later, 1625, the year that James died. And actually it appeared just a few weeks after James's death, so it backfired, really.

[Nordstrom Rack/HelloFresh/Progressive Insurance Advertiser]

Yes.

[Historian Tracey Borman]

It's an account that I suppose has influenced many generations afterwards, but not James's immediate subjects.

[Interviewer]

As you say, it has influenced people later on, it's influenced historians. I mean, I certainly used to believe that Elizabeth had named James as her successor. That was a well known historical fact. So, yeah, in the long run, did do what James had hoped, just maybe not in his lifetime.

[Historian Tracey Borman]

Exactly, exactly. It had a huge impact in the centuries that followed. I've used it, you know, and it's just that you just take it as red that Elizabeth left her crown to James. And I've got a quote here from the published Annals, which she said, I said my throne had been the throne of kings. I want the King of Scots, my closest relation, to succeed. So it's there very, very clearly in black and white and yeah, and it has just been accepted because we know, as historians, we know Camden is a pretty good source. Yes, he does tend to glorify Elizabeth. But when he was first commissioned to write the Annals, Lord Burleigh, Elizabeth's principal minister, closest advisor, he put at Camden's disposal all of this voluminous original source material. So Camden was a historian of integrity and he was meticulous. So I think it's for good reason that generations of historians have relied on his account ever since. And it really did have a huge impact on how we see the closing years of Elizabeth's reign and crucially, how we see the Elizabethan succession. So to kind of unpick 400 years of history is quite something now. And what I've really loved doing in my research, which was inspired by this discovery, is to sort of strip away what we know and look at who else actually might have been king or queen. And it does give a very different perspective on Elizabethan England.

[Interviewer]

So, yeah. So let's talk now about Elizabeth I and her reign. With this new evidence, we now know that she never named a successor. Why do you think that was? Why was she so reluctant to say who should succeed after her?

[Historian Tracey Borman]

So, a number of reasons, but I think the principal one is security and stability, because Elizabeth had direct experience of what it was like to be an heir presumptive, to be not necessarily the formal named heir, but the one that was pretty certain to succeed, because she'd lived through that in her sister Mary's reign, and that had led to serious trouble for her sister, who was faced with rebellions in Elizabeth's name very early in her reign. Elizabeth referred to this directly when Parliament yet again pressured her to name her heir. And she said, look, look what happened in my sister's reign. It caused deep seated instability, even rebellion, because people knew that I was the likely successor. So I'm not going to put somebody else in that position and I'm not going to destabilize my own throne. I have to say, as well, there was an element of wanting to be the queen bee in the hive. Elizabeth didn't want anybody's attention to be on anyone other than herself. It was a means of retaining power and control and it worked. But I have to say, it only worked because Elizabeth was so long lived and it was a risky strategy made clear just four years into her reign when she was staying at hampton Court Palace, 1562, and she fell very dangerously ill with smallpox. And that could have been it. Her life and reign could have been snuffed out after just four years. And remember, her three immediate successors had only reigned for a very short time. And if that had been the case, and she died in 1562 without N Damien heir, there could have been civil war. So it was a risky policy, but she pulled it off by living quite so long.

[Interviewer]

And as well as being risky, it did cause quite a lot of disquiet, didn't it, among her court and among the public at large. This issue of the succession never went away and it was constantly being debated.

[Historian Tracey Borman]

It was, as it was said at the time, the succession rudely sounded in Elizabeth's ears. And she was furious about this because you sense her Impatience very early in her reign. So when she almost died of smallpox in 1562, the very next year, Parliament was called. And of course, the only issue Parliament wanted to discuss was the succession. And in the British Library there's this wonderful draft that Elizabeth made of a speech to answer this pressure. And she refers to the labored orations out of jangling mouths. I mean, you can see her fury, the spiky handwriting and the crossings out. And she's like, how dare you ask me about this again. Treason to talk about a sovereign's death. So just go away, leave me to reign and stop talking about who is going to come after me. But of course it's natural that her people would want to know, because Elizabeth famously declared she would be a virgin queen. She was not going to marry, so it was certain that there would be no heirs from her own body, no direct heirs. So of course the issue of the succession was the most contentious, the most talked about of the day.

[Interviewer]

So aside from James vi, who were the other main runners and riders to succeed Elizabeth?

[Historian Tracey Borman]

Well, in the early years of Elizabeth's reign, the main contender was James mother, Mary Queen of Scots, who was really a thorn in Elizabeth's side for pretty much 30 years. And in fact, the very day after Elizabeth's accession, Mary laid claim to her throne. She was then in France, married to the the Dauphin of France, the future king, albeit short live king of France. And she had the strongest blood claim. So she was descended from Henry VIII's elder sister Margaret, as were the Stuarts. All the Stuarts came from Henry VIII's elder sister Margaret. But Henry VIII wanted the Stuarts nowhere near his throne, so he had actually made it illegal for them to inherit the English throne. And let's not forget that when James VI became James I in 1603, that was illegal. According to Henry VIII Acts of Succession and according to his last will and testament, Henry VIII wanted his throne, assuming his children all died without issue, to go to the descendants of his younger sister Mary. And they included the Grey sisters, of course. Lady Jane Grey was queen very briefly and she had two sisters still living when Elizabeth was on the throne. Catherine Grey, who was a real favourite to succeed Elizabeth, and also Mary Gray and Catherine Grey had sons and those son carried on the claim and their sons did all the way up to Elizabeth's death. There were others. Henry Hastings, Earl of Huntingdon, he didn't have Tudor blood at all, but he did have Plantagenet blood, so he was a strong claimant. And then we have the Stanleys again, Lady Margaret Stanley, a descendant of Henry VIII's sister Mary. So it all came down to these two sisters really, of Henry VIII, Mary and Margaret. That's where most of the claimants came from, except the rank outsider towards the end of Elizabeth' was Isabella, the Spanish Infanta, daughter of Philip ii. And like Henry Hastings, she had Plantagenet blood in her veins. So really it was anyone's game. And increasingly though, as Elizabeth's reign wore on, the the other claimants fell away and and James and Arbella Stewart. She emerged as a strong claimant and they were really battling it out between them. But they were both Stuarts. They were both descended from that illegal line that Henry VIII had tried to stop ever inheriting his crown.

[Nordstrom Rack/HelloFresh/Progressive Insurance Advertiser]

There's a great chance that you may have already heard of HelloFresh. They're the number one meal kit in America, making home cooking easier with chef crafted recipes and fresh ingredients delivered straight to your door. But this fall, they're serving up even more to love. This isn't the Hellofresh you remember. It's bigger, healthier and tastier. HelloFresh has doubled its menu. You can now choose from 100 options each week, including new seasonal dishes and recipes from around the world. Plus you can feel great with an even healthier menu. There are over 15 high protein recipes each week and new veggie packed recipes that have two or more veggies per dish. I find I really only rotate between like the same two or three veggies, so having a bigger selection of options really helps me mix it up a little bit. It HelloFresh now also has three times the seafood options and you can get steak and seafood recipes delivered every week for no extra cost. The best way to cook just got better. Go to hellofresh.com historyextratenfm now to get 10 free meals plus a free breakfast for life one per box with active subscription free meals applied as discount on first box. New subscribers only. Varies by planning. That's hellofresh.com historyextra10fm to get 10 free meals plus free breakfast for life this episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies just to see if you could save some cash? Well, Progressive makes it easy. Just drop in some details about yourself and see if you're eligible to save money when you bundle your home and auto policy. The process only takes minutes and it could mean hundreds more in your pocket. Visit progressive.com after this episode to see if you could save Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates potential savings will vary. Not available in all states.

[Podcast Host Rob Attar]

With Black Friday savings at the Home Depot you can get up to 40% off plus up to an extra thousand dollars off select appliances like lg, America's most reliable line of appliances. Check out the newest LG refrigerator with new mini Craft ice straight from the dispenser shop. Black Friday savings on select LG appliances plus get free delivery now at the Home Depot. Free delivery on appliance purchases of$396 or more offer valid11.5 through12.3 US only. See store online for details.

[Interviewer]

And Is it fair to say that Elizabeth tried to almost weakened the claims of many of the contenders, but she didn't want there to be one obvious success at her? She liked to have this tension between the different rivals.

[Historian Tracey Borman]

She loved it. Talk about divide and conquer. She liked to play off the rival claimants against each other, showing favor to one one moment and then to another the next. And she did that in particular with Arbella Stewart. And I I feel really sorry for Arbella because she was quite unstable anyway, she'd had this suffocating upbringing with her grandmother, Bess of Hardwick, every move and on the one hand made her very, very conscious of her royal blood and her right to the throne, but on the other gave her no freedom of action whatsoever. And then the Queen did the same thing really. She tried to control Arbella, she used her as a pawn in the international marriage market, promising her a husband and then withdrawing that promise the next moment. And unfortunately this just exacerbated Arbella's already quite unstable temperament. So that one contemporary described her as and she was very haughty and upset Elizabeth by flirting with her great favourite Essex, so she didn't do herself any favours. But Elizabeth still absolutely pitted her against James. So she never wanted to show too much favour. But I think if you analyse Elizabeth's actions more than her words, I think probably James was the best of a bad lot for Elizabeth, not ideal. She knew he was a misogynist, she knew he was deeply against female rule, so hardly an ideal candidate in Elizabeth's eyes. But I think for her blood was thicker than water and she was willing to go against her father's will and the acts of succession that he brought in to favor James because in the end she persecuted the other claimants, imprisoning them, particularly the poor Grey sisters. But she seems to have smoothed James's path to the throne and they had this 20 year correspondence where Elizabeth was constantly drip feeding James advice as to how to be a good king of England, for example, in one letter, she says, you need to play the king. The English like these kind of displays of monarchy, so you need to invest in that. Now, sadly for James, he disregarded every single bit of the advice that Elizabeth had given him over 20 years. So that's why he made a thorough hash of it, I think, as King of England. But I think, you know, despite the fact, and my book is called the Stolen Crown, James shouldn't technically and legally have succeeded Elizabeth. He was probably the one that she thought was better than the rest.

[Interviewer]

And with James and Elizabeth, there's obviously this huge elephant in the room in the sense that she signed off on the execution of his mother. How did that complicate their relationship?

[Historian Tracey Borman]

I know. Oh, my goodness. And there is this amazing sort of dance that both Elizabeth and James do around this issue. So I should say from the outset, James grows up not knowing his mother, and he grows up surrounded by people hostile to Mary. So I think he doesn't have a very positive view of his mother. That's not to say that he's okay with Elizabeth executing her. And he does make a bit of a show of trying to stop that, but not all that heartfelt, because he knows as well that he doesn't want to upset Elizabeth too much because he really, really wants her throne when she's dead. So he tries a little bit. He sends envoys to try to persuade Elizabeth not to execute his mother. And she obviously expresses lots of reluctance, and it's only, you know, after several weeks of her ministers putting pressure on her to sign that warrant that she finally does so. But then she very quickly blames everybody but herself. She says, look, I signed the warrant, but I didn't order it to be dispatched. And that's still a contentious issue. Elizabeth may have had a. Her council were so desperate for this warrant, they probably did issue it a little bit too quickly. But come on, we can't excuse Elizabeth of the part she played in Mary, Queen of Scots execution. And James made a show of outrage, and his subjects were furious that the Queen of England had executed the former Queen of Scots and wanted revenge. And James sort of made a show of going along with them, but in the end, he made this very benevolent gesture of forgiveness towards Elizabeth, and she reassured him it was a thing, as she put it. I never meant. She didn't mean to execute his mother. And so they both publicly forgave each other. And then, you know, it. It went forward and their relationship was back on an even keel. And let's just not Mention that small matter of the fact I chopped your mother's head off.

[Interviewer]

So once we get towards the end of Elizabeth's life and it's becoming clear that she doesn't have that much longer to live, what actions are her ministers taking to try and ensure there isn't chaos after her death?

[Historian Tracey Borman]

Well, you might say that actually James owed his throne to Robert Cecil. He was the son of Lord Burleigh, who had been that, that long standing, most trusted advisor to Elizabeth. And Robert Cecil sort of took on that role, although Elizabeth never quite trusted him. She wasn't as close to him as she had been to his father, Burley. But Robert Cecil, I think from quite an early stage had realized that prob. James was the best candidate. He was a king, you know, tick male. Yes, he had experience of being a king. He had the strongest blood claim. And James in the 1590s, so the sort of closing years of Elizabeth's reign, started up this very top secret correspondence with Cecil. They used code names for each other and went to great measures to ensure that their letters were undetected. And they started this correspondence that effectively smoothed James's path to the throne. So Robert Cecil effectively said to James, look, I'll sort things in England. And he also went further by advising James on how to keep in Elizabeth's good books, because James wasn't great at doing that. He was quite insensitive in some of his letters. He was quite arrogant towards Elizabeth. And so Cecil kind of said, look, this is how you handled the Queen of England. And you do see a marked improvement in relations between Elizabeth and James once Cecil is advising the King of Scots how to handle Elizabeth. But he goes to great lengths to secure a smooth transition of power from the Tudors to the Stuarts, even issuing orders for the ports to be secured against a Spanish invasion in favor of that Spanish infanta Isabella pressing her claim. And he also puts extra guards on the key cities across England so that there isn't an uprising. People really, really fear civil war. And it's easy to lose sight of that because we know, and we've known for 400 years that actually it was quite a peaceful transition from the Tudors to the Stuarts. But in the Tudor period, people, you know, they knew people who knew people, you know, previous generations who'd lived through civil war. The wars of the Roses was still fresh in people's mind and they really thought that that might happen again when Elizabeth died. So Robert Cecil went to great lengths to, to guard against that. And he was a detail man. So he'd even drafted the proclamation of James's accession well before Elizabeth had breathed her last. And so actually, I do think probably he's the person that James owed the greatest debt to. And it's no surprise that James ennobled Cecil, Earl of Salisbury. He became and really chief advisor to James. This was his reward for effectively giving James the crown of England. Did Elizabeth know this is going on? This is the number one question. I think probably she did. I think people overestimated how much Elizabeth was losing her grip on affairs. There's this wonderful scene when Elizabeth is at Richmond palace in the closing days of her life and Robert Cecil is there and everybody has tried in vain to persuade Elizabeth to just go to bed, take some rest. And Robert Cecil says to her, you know, you must rest, your Majesty. And she turns on him and you get this return of her old temper and fury. And she says, little man must is not a word to use to princes. So I think really Elizabeth was in control and probably she knew all about Robert Cecil's correspondence with the King of Scots.

[Interviewer]

And presumably this is what she wanted to happen too. She wanted a smooth succession. She just didn't want there to be be a named successor out there.

[Historian Tracey Borman]

Quite right. I think she knew exactly what was happening and it suited her. For as long as she was queen, she wanted all the attention on her. Although, you know, in her closing weeks, she knew that all eyes were on Scotland. In fact, many prominent members of her court had started to go to Scotland to court favor with the the man they were pretty certain was going to be the next king. But for most of her reign, her strategy absolutely worked. She kept all eyes on. She was never challenged in a serious way by a rival claimant. And so it was ultimately a success for Elizabeth, the man she could stand the most. I think we'll put it that way. She wasn't hugely in favour, but, you know, she could stand him. He inherited her throne without her ever having to name him her heir.

[Interviewer]

Do we have any sense of what the, I don't know if you'd call them the common people of England wanted to happen. Did they have a preference as to who should succeed Elizabeth?

[Historian Tracey Borman]

This is really hard to get to, and perhaps it's so often the way we know the history that was written by those at the centre of power and that involved those at the centre of power, but the ordinary people. I think it's quite telling, actually, that we do have reports of when James had just inherited Elizabeth's throne and there were some uprisings in towns there were perhaps uprisings is too strong a word, but there was un. Unrest. And for example, in, in Northampton, the mayor of Northampton insisted on waiting for a second proclamation. He'd been given that proclamation drafted by Cecil saying that James was king, and he refused to believe it. And he said, you know, my. The people of this town will not accept a Scotsman until I get a second letter from the council that I can tell my, my citizens that the King of Scots really is now the King of England. And we must never, never underestimate how much Scotland was seen as a foreign country by England. Anglo Scots rivalry had dominated history for centuries and there was a great deal of xenophobia in Elizabeth's England. They saw the Scots as foreigners. They called them beggarly blue caps and all these insulting terms for Scottish people. They didn't want a Scotsman on the throne of England. I think most people probably would have completely behind Henry VIII's version of things, because Henry VIII was deeply hostile towards the Scots, saw them as one of his main rivals. He didn't want a Scotsman on the throne of England. And my guess is most people in England didn't, most ordinary people, but of course, those in power, they had their money on James. They'd been cultivating him, courting him, so that they would thrive once he was king. So really it was a couple at the heart of power and probably didn't reflect how most people, most ordinary people in England truly felt towards the King of Scots.

[Interviewer]

So coming back to what we began this interview with, how do you think this discovery should change our understanding of the late Tudor and early Stuart eras?

[Historian Tracey Borman]

I think this discovery should really make us look again at the claimants to Elizabeth's throne and reassess them in the light of this discovery, that it wasn't a foregone conclusion. And certainly that's what I've found, you know, researching, for example, Art Bella Stuart. She came very, very close to being Queen, as did the sons and grandsons of Lady Catherine Grey. They could have been king. So on the one hand, we should look at the claimants again and the strength of their claim, but on the other, I think we should question just how smooth a transition this was. And yes, it perhaps was thanks to Robert Cecil going to great lengths, but how much did the people of England actually want James? We should question that. I think, though, the biggest thing we should look at is what happened next. Because James hadn't taken on Elizabeth's advice about how to be a good king of England. He alienated large swathes of his subjects. And so crucially did his son Charles, who hadn't taken on any of the lessons that Elizabeth had given his father because he probably didn't know those lessons. His father had sort of molded his him into a king in his own image. So he disregarded Parliament and he took it to even greater extremes than his father had. And of course, that plunged the country into civil war. And that ultimately led to the entire destruction of the monarchy. And even though the monarchy came back with Charles ii, that relationship with Parliament was changed forever. And from that moment, kings and queens reigned. They didn't rule. And we could say that had its genesis in this new discovery and in the lie that started the Stuart accession to the throne of England.

[Podcast Host Rob Attar]

That was Tracey Borman speaking to Rob Attar. Tracy is chief historian at Historic Royal Palaces and chief executive of the Heritage Education Trust. Her new book about the Stuart succession, the Stolen Crown, Treachery, Deceit and the Death of the Tudor Dynasty, is out now.

[Shopify/Mint Mobile Advertiser]

Hey, Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. Now I don't know if you've heard, but Mint's Premium Wireless is $15 a month. But I'd like to offer one other perk. We have no stores. That means no small talk. Crazy weather we're having. No, it's not. It's just weather. It is an introvert's dream. Give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront payment.

[Nordstrom Rack/HelloFresh/Progressive Insurance Advertiser]

Of 45 for 3 month plan, 15.

[Historian Tracey Borman]

Per month equivalent required.

[Nordstrom Rack/HelloFresh/Progressive Insurance Advertiser]

New customer offer first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra.

[Historian Tracey Borman]

See mintmobile.com Ah, the sounds of an Etsy holiday.

[Nordstrom Rack/HelloFresh/Progressive Insurance Advertiser]

Now that's special.

[Historian Tracey Borman]

Want to hear it again? Get original and affordable gifts from small shops on Etsy.

[Nordstrom Rack/HelloFresh/Progressive Insurance Advertiser]

For gifts that say I get you shop Etsy, tap the banner to shop. Now.

[Shopify/Mint Mobile Advertiser]

You know the words that dominate our news cycle. Private equity keeps inventing capital gains tax on home.

[Historian Tracey Borman]

America's fueled by market volatility.

[Shopify/Mint Mobile Advertiser]

But do you truly understand how they impact your world and your wallet? In a world that skims the what, understand the why. Because context changes everything. Subscribe to Learn [e-mail] the global benchmark for business news.