HistoryExtra Podcast Summary

Episode: "Why Pompeii's tragedy still captivates us today"

Host: Kev Lotchin

Guest: Dr. Jess Venner (Roman historian, Pompeii expert)

Date: February 1, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode of the HistoryExtra podcast explores the enduring fascination with Pompeii—the Roman city frozen in time by the eruption of Mount Vesuvius in AD 79. Host Kev Lotchin and Dr. Jess Venner discuss how the tragedy allows modern people to glimpse ancient lives, the insights gained from remarkable archaeological finds, and the evolving understanding of who lived in Pompeii, what they left behind, and why the site continues to resonate so powerfully in the public imagination.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Human Remains & Plaster Casts

[03:24 - 10:31]

• Plaster Cast Technique:

  • Developed by Giuseppe Fiorelli in 1863 at Pompeii.
  • Method involves pouring plaster of Paris into cavities left in ash after bodies decayed—the resulting casts capture details like clothing, jewelry, facial expressions.
  • "Over time, the bodies decayed, leaving the skeleton. But then there was a cavity. So it preserved the imprints of clothing, of shoes, of jewelry, of facial expressions, and they were sort of petrified in that state." – Dr. Jess Venner [03:47]

• Differences in Preservation (Pompeii vs. Herculaneum):

  • In Herculaneum, extreme heat preserved only skeletons; Pompeii's casts are unique.

• Interpreting the Casts:

  • Body positions: e.g., contracted limbs show death by intense heat.
  • Not only humans but also animals (horses, dogs).

• Limits of Identification:

  • Rare cases like the "mule driver" identified through context and attire.
  • Famous exception: Julia Felix, a wealthy businesswoman, identified by inscriptions and property layout.

2. Humanizing the Dead and Avoiding Stereotypes

[10:31 - 13:51]

• Challenging Old Narratives:

  • Women often stereotyped as brothel workers; archaeology now contradicts literature by revealing evidence of women (like Julia Felix) as business owners and politically active.
  • Dr. Venner notes the archaeological record is “contradicting the old view that women weren’t involved” in public or economic life.

• Class and Everyday Life:

  • Early excavations prioritized elite dwellings; recent work focuses on ordinary people, slave quarters, and everyday artifacts.

3. The Vibrant Graffiti and Street Life of Pompeii

[13:51 - 21:41]

• Volume and Variety:

  • Pompeii is unusually rich in graffiti—literary quotations, shopping lists, love notes, political endorsements, and satirical caricatures.

• Memorable Graffiti Examples:

  • A caricature of a politician, Rufus, with a giant nose found in the Villa of the Mysteries [17:15–19:08].
  • Romantic inscriptions, e.g., "Secundus greets his Prima, wherever she is, I beg you, lady, love me." [19:08]
  • “It’s very Yelp”—graffiti reviews of brothels and inns, complete with complaints and boasts [16:11–21:22].

• Notable Quote:

  • "It's like the internet—it's part Yelp, it's part Reddit." – Kev Lotchin [21:22]

4. Erotic Art: Misunderstandings, Shock, and Historical Context

[22:59 - 30:21]

• Perceptions then and now:

  • Romans had a very different, open view of erotic representation (sexuality, fertility symbols like Priapus) vs. post-Renaissance “prudishness.”
  • Catholic authorities in the 18th/19th centuries hid explicit artworks in a “secret cabinet” at the Naples Archaeological Museum.

• Erotic imagery wasn’t purely titillating or reserved for brothels:

  • Priapus fresco in the House of the Vetti shows a god weighing his phallus with money—mixing luck, virility, and wealth.
  • Inscriptions and art suggest links between household slaves and sex work, with direct evidence of individual lives like the Greek slave Eutychus.

• Notable Quote:

  • "This isn't subtle at all. This is an incredibly graphic image... It was like a bit of a joke as well, I think, cause it's like he's weighing his phallus." – Dr. Jess Venner [24:27]
  • "The phallus...wasn't seen as erotic. You'd wear it as jewelry or you would have it as wind chimes with wings…it was just a common thing.” – Dr. Jess Venner [28:02]

5. Recent Discoveries & Updates from Pompeii

[30:53 - 36:40]

• "Pizza" Fresco Hype (2023):

  • Viral media excitement over a fresco resembling pizza—actually a flatbread with ancient toppings.
  • "Breaking my heart here, Jess. Absolutely." – Kev Lotchin [31:51]

• Slave Quarters and Working Life:

  • Grisly discoveries, e.g., cramped slave sleeping quarters, chamber pots, evidence of chained bakery workers.

• "Black Room" Discovery:

  • Lavishly decorated dining room with mythological scenes on black backgrounds to mask soot—typical of Roman dining rooms.

• Increasing Focus on Daily Life:

  • New finds emphasize everyday experiences, including those of slaves and women, and challenge previous literary-driven assumptions.

• Wax Tablets:

  • Rare trove of wax tablets recording a substantial loan between two freedwomen, with names of the slaves offered as collateral.

• Scrolls at Herculaneum:

  • The “Villa de Papyri” yielding philosophical texts, now being deciphered with advanced technology.
  • Still awaiting discovery of the Latin library; currently only Greek texts found.

6. Imagining the City of Pompeii

[37:34 - 41:07]

• City Layout:

  • 66 hectares (massive for a visitor).
  • Market buildings, religious spaces, shopping streets, taverns, laundries (fullers), elegant homes, bathhouses, gardens—a third of Pompeii was green.
  • Unique features: one-way streets, stepping stones across roads, fountains.

• Outskirts:

  • Villas like the “Villa of the Mysteries,” notable for enigmatic Dionysiac frescoes.

7. Why Pompeii Holds Center Stage

[41:07 - 42:39]

• Pompeii’s Glamour and Historical Reach:

  • Came to attention in the Grand Tour era; became an essential stop for elites and artists.
  • Spawned a long tradition of popular and academic interest; became embedded in Western imagination more than Herculaneum or other buried towns.

• Tourism, Tragedy, and Ethics:

  • Pompeii has become a massive tourist site, yet it is also a site of mass death.
  • Challenges in honoring the dead:
    • "There is a fine line between education and presenting someone's body in their final, most painful moments." – Dr. Jess Venner [43:05]
  • Dr. Venner argues for remembering not just the death, but the vibrant, ordinary lives of its citizens.

8. Is Pompeii Truly "Frozen in Time"?

[44:18 - 45:24]

• Nuanced Reality:

  • The "frozen in time" cliché oversimplifies events—a complex disaster unfolded over a day or more, but the casts do give “a snapshot, a slice of Roman life.”

• Memorable Moment:

  • The cast of a man leaning on his elbow, still in the act of comforting his family at the moment of disaster.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the poignancy of the casts:

  • “He was clearly trying to comfort them…it looks like that because he's sort of leaning over. And then he was overwhelmed and he's still leaning to this day.” – Dr. Jess Venner [07:57]

• On gender archeology:

  • “No, the archaeology is showing [women’s involvement]; and the same thing happens for slaves…archaeology is telling us a lot that we can't get out of the literature and it's actually contradicted it in a lot of ways.” – Dr. Jess Venner [11:35]

• On Pompeii’s graffiti:

  • “It's very Yelp. Yes.” – Dr. Jess Venner [16:23]

• On Victorian discomfort:

  • “Catholicism was so, so prevalent and…they were like, this is fantastic…Oh my God. They're depicting in very graphic detail these sex scenes, essentially. And it was like, oh no, we can't have this. And then…they locked it all away in this secret cabinet.” – Dr. Jess Venner [28:38]

• On the ethics of displaying human remains:

  • “I struggle with that…this should be private… probably need to put more into talking about the ordinary people and remembering how they lived and that it was a vibrant, beautiful city…” – Dr. Jess Venner [43:05]

• On Pompeii’s iconic status:

  • “It glamorized it again…this rite of passage that you would go to Pompeii and you draw and you would talk about, you know, recite Byron…It became part of popular culture…” – Dr. Jess Venner [41:20]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Plaster Casts & Preservation: [03:24–10:31]
• Everyday Life and Breaking Stereotypes: [10:31–13:51]
• Graffiti and Urban Life: [13:51–21:41]
• Erotic Art Then and Now: [22:59–30:21]
• Recent Discoveries – Pizza Fresco, Slave Quarters, Black Room, Wax Tablets: [30:53–36:40]
• Layout and Social Geography of Pompeii: [37:34–41:07]
• Why Pompeii Prevailed: [41:07–42:39]
• On Tragedy, Tourism, and Ethics: [42:41–44:18]
• Frozen in Time – Myth and Reality: [44:18–45:24]

Tone and Atmosphere

• Informal, curious, and occasionally humorous banter (especially about modern parallels to graffiti and reviews).
• Respectful and empathetic when discussing the tragic human dimension.
• Dr. Venner’s commentary is passionate and brings a modern, democratizing lens to the story of Pompeii, emphasizing voices and experiences outside the elite.

Summary

This episode brings Pompeii to vivid life—not as a morbid spectacle, but as a complex, bustling, funny, loving, and tragically doomed community. Dr. Venner and Kev Lotchin combine historical expertise with an eye for stories that resonate, balancing the city’s status as a “frozen” archaeological marvel with new research that reveals its ordinary, multifaceted humanity. The episode ultimately asks listeners to remember not just how the people of Pompeii died, but how they lived.