Emily Brifitts (3:57)

And this obviously had drastic consequences for young William, didn't it?

Professor David Bates (4:02)

Well, yes, the main thing is that there was undoubtedly a daughter, but he was the only son, there was no one else. Although one might think that there would have been rivals. But strangely enough, Normandy politically was controlled at that time by an older generation, and one can almost think that William was almost protected by those around him. And although we do have later writers, particularly Aldrich Vitellius, who refer to the terrible events of William's childhood and adolescence, actually the period of conflict was very short, probably 1040-1042, mostly local rivalries or rivalries for influence at court. And of course, William comes of age 1042 and starts to become very active. There's already evidence of him leading, well, said to be leading military campaigns. And her lever was still alive and, of course, married, which is very important because she produced two sons, one of whom was Odo, who became Bishop of Baier. And we'll talk about him a bit later. But the main thing, in other words, it's kind of a rejection of a. Let's call it a Victorian approach that said, oh, he was illegitimate, therefore his position was dodgy. But actually, the two words that do appear in the sources, bastardus and nothus, both actually mean the son of a relationship involving someone of lower social status. And the Christian law of marriage was actually only really clarified in the early 13th century. So, yeah, I'm inclined to see William as the product of a secure background and, of course, who grew up well and was clearly very capable. He grew up very, very rapidly.

Emily Brifitts (6:04)

So obviously he's coming to the dukedom at quite a young age and, as you said, quite capable. What challenges does he face in coming into that seat?

Professor David Bates (6:15)

I mean, Normandy was established in northern France and around it were other terr. Well, as the kings of France were established in a territory around Paris, there were counts of Flanders, counts of Anjou, various counts in Brittany, smaller counties, Ponthieu, Maine and so on and so forth. All of these were rivals. But what's interesting is that, particularly the kings of France, and this is true of the one great military conflict of William's early years, 1047, with his cousin Guy. What's interesting is that the King of France at that point supports William. So he's in a world where there are rivalries, but they are in no way truly undermining of William. The world changes in the 1050s, and we think we know why. But that's probably something you're going to ask about next.

Emily Brifitts (7:13)

It most certainly is. Tell us about these 1050s, then. You've hinted very strongly that the world is about to be turned on its head.

Professor David Bates (7:22)

Yeah. What happened in the 1050s? There was an invasion of Normandy led by the King of France, or French King and the Count of Anjou in 1054 and another one in 1057. In other words, a previous protector has turned against William. The one ally, although this particular ally never intervenes, is the Count of Flanders. And in 1052, 1053, somewhere in that year, William, of course, marries the daughter of the Count of Flanders. This is Matilda. There's another interesting story there, because they were technically related and initially the papacy forbade the marriage, but they negotiated a settlement with the Pope. Again, it's interesting that William negotiated rather than defied. And in the background to all of this is the visit to England, which I think he made in the year 1051, in which, so he claimed, he was promised the succession to the English kingdom by Edward the Confessor. And, of course, Edward had been looked after in Normandy by William's grandfather and father. And indeed, in charters of William's minority in Normandy starts to appear as with the title Rex. In other words, there's a sense in which they were supporting him against the sons of cnut. And in 1041. 1041, 1042, he became king of the English. But the prospect that William might become King of the English. Yes. Worried people.

Emily Brifitts (9:05)

Now, there's so many threads that we could pull apart there. So, as you said, the 1050s sounds like a crazy time for William in his life. He's got, in the early 1050s, he's got this conflict now with a previous protector, King of France. How did that go down?

Professor David Bates (9:23)

Well, we don't really know how it went down, but it just continued. Although what is striking is that the second invasion, 1057, was defeated at what is called the Battle of Varroville. Now, Varaville involved the crossing of rivers and the French and Count of Anjou's army crossing marshes. And it's quite clear that William's army isolated some of them and massacred them. It wasn't really a battle at all, but of course it was a manifestation of something which was becoming very clear. He was good at war. And then, of course, in the 1060, lo and behold, the King of France, Henry I, dies. The same year, the Count of Anjou dies suddenly, the world has changed radically and believe it or not, they both were succeeded by children. Indeed, there was a civil war between in Anjou. So suddenly, a world which had been hostile becomes. Well, it becomes one in which hostility is still beneath the surface, but no one hostile is able to do anything.

Emily Brifitts (10:42)

So this is putting some of the conflicts that had been raging on through the 1050s to bed. You can see William starting to show perhaps a little bit of military prowess there. But the other point you mentioned in the early 1050s, well, there's two more points I need to ask you about, one of which is his marriage with Matilda. I'm curious, was this a prosperous marriage?

Professor David Bates (11:04)

I'm sure it was a very prosperous marriage. One thing that is very remarkable about them is that as far as we know, there were no illegal illegitimate children, which for that period is very, very unusual. Secondly, they actually produced nine children of their own, which of course meant that there were successors to follow. And Matilda becomes increasingly prominent in the 1050s, and it was said to be as a penance for the marriage, the two of them found monasteries, abbeys in Caen. This is Stephen, Saint Etienne and La Trinite. So actually, it is a very successful marriage. It's a very important feature in their lives. And Matilda is left, in effect, as the ruler of Normandy in 1066, supported by one or two of the other people who had come up alongside William. And the other theme of the 1050s is very much, well, 1040s and 1050s is emergence of this group around William, who really dominate political society.

Emily Brifitts (12:19)

Who featured as part of this group.

Professor David Bates (12:21)

William Fitzhausborn, Roger de Montgomery, Roger de Beaumont, William de Warenne. Probably lesser ones. Lesser, certainly also William's brother, Odo, the Bishop of Bayeux. And emerging because he's quite a bit younger, the other brother, Robert, Count of Mortain. And what is involved in the rise of these individuals is quite a number of decisions which favoured them against others. In other words, William didn't just create a situation in which he believed he was going to be the next king of the English, he created a situation in which a political group became increasingly dominant within Norman society and any rivals were, well, pushed away, whatever one makes of him. And of course, such people are always controversial. He was certainly politically skilful, but I doubt if he was someone who you wanted to get. Well, I know he wasn't. You did not get on the wrong side of him.

Emily Brifitts (13:28)

So he's obviously built up this posse around him. What else can we tell about his personality? Obviously not someone you want to get on the wrong side of.

Professor David Bates (13:39)

As you've said in this discussion so far, we're actually covering so many aspects of this. He seemingly happily and certainly successfully married, he does have a reputation as a protector of the Church. He creates a dominant political regime and in the end we're looking at political domination. And the theme, of course, runs through his life in which he is able to dominate. But one doesn't necessarily want to say that he was, well, let's say, not necessarily very nice. I can't resist at this point, Emily, going a little after 1066 and really asking you and your listeners to ask what you think of this. Shortly after 1066, the Archbishop of York. Eh, Aldred? This must be 1068, I think. The man who crowned William came into William's company and protested loudly that some of his followers had been attacked and pillaged by warriors acting on William's behalf in Yorkshire. And William's response was to fall on his knees in front of the Archbishop and beg forgiveness. And Ealdred rather sensibly said, I can't forgive you, but St. Peter will. Now, this is theatre, isn't it? And this anecdote is not one which is often featured, but that William should behave in this way is a sign of someone who knows how to manage situations and sometimes doing so in ways which actually surprise us. I mean, there's another story of William bursting into tears when the severed head of the English Earl Edwin is brought to him. And Edward had rebelled, he'd been captured and killed. The perpetrators of this deed brought the severed head into William's company. And William's response, and this is there in two 12th century writers, Aldrich Vitalis and William Malblay, was to burst into tears and then punish the people who had done it. Now, again, oh, it's fascinating, but of course William has gained, but he's saying, oh, it's not my fault.

Emily Brifitts (16:09)

Very clever. I think it's important to be able to picture that person. On that kind of note, what do we know about the way William looked, his sort of physicality?

Professor David Bates (16:19)

Well, the answer's a rather obvious one, of course. He was buried in the Abbey of Saint Etienne. The tomb was plundered by Protestants, Huguenots. One bone survived, the thigh bone. And guess what? It was analyzed in the 1960s and it was the bone of a man who was pretty tall and obviously very strong. I mean, wonderful that this was done, but it's rather starting the obvious, isn't it? And everything we know is that he was. Well, he led in war by example, or at least careful example. Yeah. And that shows it.

Emily Brifitts (17:02)

And that's what I'm sure we're going to be coming onto now. But I just want to ask you, while we're building this picture of William, do we get a sense of his interests? Obviously we've talked about his sort of political side as the Duke of Normandy coming through. But what did he like doing on his days off?

Professor David Bates (17:18)

Essentially, he liked hunting. And the fact, of course, that two of his sons died in the New Forest in hunting accidents. Yes. Well, one chronicler, they actually say, well, this punishes the father for spending too much of his time hunting. And he listened to jesters and things like that. Yeah.

Emily Brifitts (17:37)

So for listeners, we've got a fairly tall man, someone who's strong. We've got someone who can show both sides of power, quite a dominant figure. Not someone you want to get on the wrong side of, someone who likes hunting as well. Now, the other thread that I really wanted to pick up with you from what we were speaking about from the 1050s is this claim to the English throne. Because for most listeners, I'm sure this is what they'll really be familiar with, this approach to the Norman Conquest. How strong would you say William's claim to the throne was against the people contending with him?

Professor David Bates (18:14)

Well, my probable answer would be, I'll say, don't know. Or rather, in the end, of course, there are different ways of analyzing the situation. I mean, it's become increasingly clear in recent analyses that the person who Edward chose as his successor was of course the son of his half brother. It was Edgar the Atheling. But then on his deathbed, as we well know, he named Harold as his successor. And of course, Harold had previously been to Normandy. This is all on the Bayer Tapestry, although the image on the Bia tapestry is complicated. And of course, the King of Norway, Harald Hard Dorade and the King of Denmark, who was the successor or family of Cnut and Half Knut, they all believed they had a claim. As far as I can go, I suspect that Harold was chosen because Edward and this is not what we know, he said. But you almost see the man dying and reflecting this is an awful mess, Harold. You at least have a reputation for leading in war. Let's see what happens. And it is also clear, I'm sure, that probably the English were not keen on the succession of William, Duke of Normandy for, well, again, obvious reasons. If it succeeded peacefully, it would nonetheless have changed things radically.

Commercial Announcer (19:50)

Labor Day Savings are happening right now at the Home Depot. So what are you working on? Prep for fall with our wide selection of cordless power tools that make it easy to clear your lawn starting at $79. And once the leaves are clear, keep your yard looking fresh with colorful mums that bloom all season long. Shop Labor Day Savings now through September 3rd only at the Home Depot. See select stores for details. Abercrombie is an official fashion partner of the NFL and I'm CeeDee Lamb, wide receiver for the Dallas Cowboys. You know I'm here for Abercrombie's Cowboys gear. That's not a question, but I need a whole wardrobe to go with. No shade to the guys, but I'm used to having the best tunnel fits. This season, Abercrombie has me covered. Shop NFL by Abercrombie in the app, online and in store.

Professor David Bates (20:47)

Hey, it's Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile. Now.

Commercial Announcer (20:49)

I was looking for fun ways to tell you that Mint's offer of unlimited premium wireless for $15 a month is back. So I thought it would be fun if we made $15 bills, but it turns out that's very illegal, so there goes my big idea for the commercial. Give it a try@mintmobile.com switch upfront payment.

Energy Trust of Oregon Representative (21:09)

$45 for three month plan equivalent to $15 per month required new customer offer.

Emily Brifitts (21:12)

For first three months only speed slow after 35 gigabytes of networks busy taxes and fees extra. See mintmobile.com there's this moment that gets portrayed in the tale of claimants to the English crown of Harold meeting William. What do we actually know about this? Did the two of them meet?

Professor David Bates (21:29)

Yes, they did. The main contemporaries who for this are William of Poitiers and the Bayer Tapestry. Their accounts are somewhat different, but both have Harold take an oath and William of Poitiers is explicit that the oath Harold swears is that he will support William's claim to be king of the English. It is repeated by Aldrich and William of Malmesbury, but there are other versions of the story. For some reason he lands in Ponthieu, in other words, to the north east of Normandy and eventually comes to Normandy and then William takes him on a campaign into Brittany and then Harold swears an oath at Bayeux. William is supposed to have offered Harold a daughter in marriage as well, which is a bit odd since Harold was already married. The contemporary sources are there, but they raise difficulties. We can, I think in the end say that that's what William believed had happened. But Aradmer, writing at Canterbury in the late 11th century, as Edward the Confessor, say, well, Harold announces he's going to go to Normandy to get back a brother who's been given as a hostage when William was promised the succession and Edward says, I will have nothing of this, I cannot support it. This man will do terrible things, as William will do terrible things personally.

Emily Brifitts (23:12)

For William, what was his reason for wanting the English crown? Was it just an opportunity that was presented him? Obviously, it's in a kingdom over the sea.

Professor David Bates (23:21)

Well, there are two main things. One is, of course, he, you know, whatever one makes of the actual dispute, I'm quite prepared to believe, and I think most people would, that he believed he'd been named as Edward's successor. And secondly, of course, we don't know any of this, but he was presumably going around saying, right, I'm going to be the next king of the English, almost be. He would have lost face if he hadn't tried. And I think it was almost a matter of personal honour. But also it is very striking that takeover in the English kingdom was a very risky enterprise. But seemingly, I mean, let's remember Harold Crowned early January 1066, William has an army assembled. Within months, it's as if a lot of people knew what his ambitions were and joined him. And there's a wonderful quote, this is in William of Poitiers. He was very much an apologist for William, but he wrote this. Foreign knights flocked to help him in great numbers. And by foreign he means from Brittany, Flanders, other parts of France, Aquitaine, even from. But foreign knights flocked to help him in great numbers, attracted partly by his well known liberality, but also fully confident of the justice of his cause. Now, whatever we make of this, two things are certain. One, they convinced themselves that they were going to put their lives at risk, they stood a good chance of success. And also since they were putting their souls at risk, they stood a good chance of being forgiven if they died on the expedition, but also they were going to be rewarded. And that of course takes us on After 1066, where we have this dynamic of a man who has succeeded, who has to reward those who've helped him, but of course, has also promised to rule the English justly in his coronation oath. Think about it, I think, is all one can say to anyone who's contemplating this situation.

Emily Brifitts (25:41)

It certainly causes some problems, doesn't it?

Professor David Bates (25:44)

It does. And I'm tempted to just quote two further things. This is Wynwill Poitiers again. As custodians of castles, he assigned stalwart men who had brought across from Gaul. To these, he distributed rich fiefs for the sake of which they would bear toil and danger. However, nothing was given to any Frenchman which had been taken unjustly from an Englishman. But in the D version of the Anglo Saxon Chronicle, and Bishop Odo and Earl William, that's his half brother, and William Fitz Osborne were left behind, and they built castles widely, and they oppressed the wretched people. And afterwards, it always grew much worse. In other words, one might say, yes. Every listener to this podcast will think, this man is controversial. This is what is being written about him very soon after the Battle of Hastings. He's controversial from day one, and you can see why.

Emily Brifitts (26:52)

It does make you wonder, was this writing in praise of William for fear of William, or writing in praise of William for actually he was that great, and it was these other naughty men over here who did it?

Professor David Bates (27:05)

I think it could be both. Oh, dear. You talking a little bit about William Poitier? He's sometimes treated as a propagandist, but actually, others have said this as well as me. What he's actually doing is trying to answer criticisms. And of course, if you're trying to answer criticisms, you have to really. Although you may not say what they are, your reader will be aware of what they are all the time. I'm trying to emphasize the complexity of the political world and also the moral world, which swirled around William, shall we say, everything we look at William of Poitiers, all other sources, none of them were objective in the way in which we try to be.

Emily Brifitts (27:54)

No.

Professor David Bates (27:55)

No.

Emily Brifitts (27:56)

Okay, so if we go back to the moment of 1066, can you briefly walk us through the Norman Conquest, which is this moment in William's life that I think most of our listeners will be familiar with. How did William prepare politically, spiritually, militarily, for this moment?

Professor David Bates (28:13)

Well, first of all, he must have assembled large numbers of ships and an army which originally was assembled close to Caen on the coast. And in July, I think it is June, July, Matilda's monastic foundation, La Trinite of Caen, was dedicated, and they gave a daughter, Cecilia, who must have been 89 years old as an oblate to become a nun. In other words, they effectively sacrifice the life of a daughter as a pious statement. And there is actually a poem which talks about Matilda's tears. So, in other words, we're looking at preparations which are not just military, they are religious, they're moral. And, of course, while all this is going on, how Dorada is getting ready to invade and cross the North Sea, and then William crosses a channel on the night of what, 28th, 29th of September, having had to travel up the coast, and then he wins at battle. What becomes battle? The field of Senlac, and then is crowned King of the English On Christmas Day 1066, in Westminster Abbey by Ealdred, Archbishop of York. Following the timeline afterwards, in February, March, he goes back to Normandy and stays there till December, during which time, all kinds of problems. There are many English rebellions, small invasions from Ireland. The King of Denmark intervenes. It's a very turbulent time, and it's really only by 1072 that we can think of William as actually having conquered the kingdom of the English, with, of course, the one terrible event, the winter of 1069, 70, the harrying of the north.

Emily Brifitts (30:11)

Just to check, this is in this time that supposedly Odo and William Fitzosberne are actually. They're doing the land redistribution. The castle building is this. This time here?

Professor David Bates (30:25)

Yes. Well, Odo and William Fitzhausband are actually only during William's absence in 1067, but we can almost certainly say that. I mean, Odo was technically installed in Kent, but he was responsible for the whole of the southeast of England. We can see castles, Deddington and so on and so forth. Things have been built. One can speculate what might have happened if William had stayed in England, but he chose not to.

Emily Brifitts (30:50)

What do you think? What do you think would have happened?

Professor David Bates (30:53)

He might have exercised greater control and actually, this is pure speculation, but he did keep English people in positions of responsibility. But it all becomes so turbulent, you know, Edwin Morcar, rebel. Many others rebel. I am left thinking that William, as a dominant personality, might have achieved a more, how shall we say, a relationship between the newcomers, the conquerors and the defeated, which was less hostile, but we shall never know. It's the great what if.

Emily Brifitts (31:35)

But alas, there's all these rebellions that take place, and William responds by really stamping his foot down, doesn't he? The harrying of the North. Would you say this was a strategic move or perhaps a more brutal overkill moment?

Professor David Bates (31:51)

One can see it in both ways. One thing I'll say. And of course, this is taking us back to northern France. William had used the period when there were not the rivals to take over the county of May, the region of Alement, 1063. He had lost control in 1069. There, at the same time, the King of Denmark, King Svenesthrisson, was invading, tried to land and sail up the east coast. Rebellions were taking place. You could almost say that William was facing a moment towards the end of 1069 when everything he wanted to accomplish and believed he had been accomplishing was likely to be destroyed. On the other hand, the sheer scale of destruction of northern England, I mean, Aldrich Vitalis said, God could never forgive this. There's stories of cannibalism, and you look at Hugh's Domesday Book and so on and so forth, and you do get these debates about whether it was more or less severe, in many ways irrelevant. What is truly done is ensuring that the north of England can never be a base for invasion or rebellion. This is also. Well, it's universal history, isn't it? Globalizing, it's modern. The destruction of the livelihoods of non combatants as a means to undermine the seemingly powerful.

Emily Brifitts (33:23)

Would you mind just describing what actually happened during the Harrying of North. How were so many lives affected?

Professor David Bates (33:30)

Without going into great detail, I mean, this is somewhat debated, but Aldrich says very briefly, when I think about the children and the elderly, people starving, whose lives are lost? Simeon of Durham, writing in the late 11th century, but of course with sort of local knowledge, writes about cannibalism. You have sources saying that people were refugees, reached Evesham and Worcester. And when you look at Domesday Book, there are so many places that are described as waste. In other words, they could no longer produce tax, and that is 1086. And William of Malmesbury, who was more sympathetic to William, nonetheless, says writing in the 1120s, the recovery hasn't yet taken place, fully taken place. Does that give a sense really of terrible things?

Emily Brifitts (34:30)

The impact on the non combatants, could we describe it as something like scorched earth?

Professor David Bates (34:35)

It's much more severe than that. Scorched earth was a military tactic. This is the destruction of the means of subsistence, I mean technically of the weak. But of course, it prevents those who are supposedly strong from actually doing much that they'd been accustomed to do.

Emily Brifitts (34:57)

You mentioned that from 1072 onwards, William's got more of a hold on England. How did his reign play out from there? What kind of ruler was William over England? Was he a warrior, the administrator, a reformer?

Professor David Bates (35:14)

In many ways, well, of course we're now looking at the processes leading up to the making of Doomsday Boy. But I can't resist firstly saying that after 1072 he spends 72% approximately. This comes of editing charters of his time in Normandy. And this is not because. Well, it's not because I have loyalty to Normandy and liking being there. All of the rivalries around Normandy's frontier, which of course have been a feature of the 1050s, have re emerged. He's fighting the counts of Anjou, then the King of France, Philip I to an extent. And William's son Robert rebels at some point, and so on and so forth. So in other words, the political world of the 1050s re emerges. Firstly, what is very striking though nonetheless about William in England is firstly, the Anglo Saxon Chronicle said this when he was here, he always wore his crown on the great religious festivals, you know, Winchester, Westminster, Gloucester. These were the three places. And it was at Gloucester, Christmas 1085, that the project to make Doomsday Book was initiated. In other words, there's a sense of grandeur and people are expected to turn up to those. And you do have, and there's a remarkable recent publications. It's sitting behind my screen here, Making Doomsday by Stephen Baxter, Julia Crick and Chris Lewis. It actually shows that we're looking at a very closely organized process of control legitimation. And Stephen actually describes William as something like a control freak. There are stories again, once more of him being involved in matters of exceptional detail. Then people could approach him on the most minor matter. So it seems, let's never forget the dominant man, the person that reality I've been talking about all the way through. But at the same time there's this big shift into the creation of an organized kingdom. And of course it is an organized kingdom, mostly dominated by this small group about whom I've been talking. Chris Wickham puts this marvelously. The destruction of English elites has no parallel in European history before 1917. So in other words, you are looking at almost complete takeover of the English kingdom by a French aristocracy. And this of course creates an Anglo Norman, Anglo French world which endures until 1204 and the so called loss of.

Emily Brifitts (38:18)

Normandy, obviously this takeover of this Anglo Norman society, then what cultural changes did this bring about in England in terms of language, law, religion, governance, arts?

Professor David Bates (38:33)

We have to think about the great what if. What would have happened if Harold had won the Battle of Hastings? And we are now convinced that the English state was centralized before 1060. Was centralized, well governed. We associate William and his followers with the building of these grand castles and Romanesque architecture and so on and so forth. On the other hand, of course, Edward the Confessor has already started to build Westminster Abbey in the new style. Church architecture of this kind spreads throughout much of Europe. So we are, in the end, looking at European changes which we can't necessarily say are Norman changes. I mean, just using this one example of Romanesque architecture, of course, Winchester, wonderful cathedral. I mean, that was started, we know, during William's reign, 1079, I think, and it was modeled on some parts of it, the west front, the Imperial burial church at Speyer in Germany. And of course, the elite were speaking French. There was not much intermarriage at the upper level. Most churchmen were French and so on. But on the other hand, again, the English church was evolving in certain ways. Complicated subject. You know, so much what if about it? But just as a brief answer, there are certain things which happened in ways which would not have happened if William had not won the Battle of Hastings.

Emily Brifitts (40:13)

One of the things that you mentioned earlier was about how his son Robert rebelled against him. Now, this signalled a breakdown in family relations. Can you tell us more about.

Professor David Bates (40:24)

Happened during the campaigning season, 1078. And it was a quarrel, actually, so the narrative tells, between Robert and his brothers. In other words, it's almost a family breakdown. And eventually Robert, by January 1079, has installed himself in a castle supported by the King of France, at Gerbois, just outside Normandy. So it was very serious stuff. Matilda, so we're told, did try to mediate. She was upset by all of this. But in the end, what this leads to is that as William is dying on his deathbed, 1087, he actually announces, simplifying a bit, I must honour the promise of the succession of Normandy to my son Robert. Although Robert was at this point in exile, he never came to either his father's deathbed or his funeral. But I must honor Robert's succession. However, I'm going to grant England to my second son, William. This is William Rufus, who has always been loyal. So you are looking, in other words, not the breakdown of a regime, but a new type of turbulence, which, of course then leads to the wars, 1087-1106, which eventually result in Henry the First taking over Normandy. And on we go. Yeah. So personal relationships within the family are difficult. At the same time, there is this dominance of the English kingdom, which leads to the process of the making of Domesday Book. It's astonishing enterprise. So many people traveling around the kingdom, scribes writing Etc. Etc. So you are looking at a very involved and effective regime at the same time that you're looking at turbulence at the core. And I'm sure that Matilda's death, November 1083, probably did make a difference now, but there we are. That is a brief version.

Emily Brifitts (42:41)

So wonderful description of the regime is something that is, at its core, fractured and unstable, but still is dominant, still is powerful. It's a really interesting way of putting it.

Professor David Bates (42:56)

And of course, there's one other element to this. William, in early 1083, arrests and imprisons his half brother Odo. Technically, we said he was charged because he was deserting his responsibilities in England. The stories we have suggest that he was leaving England because he thought he would become Pope. We are looking in the woods at a regime which is, at the core, loses the cohesiveness of the truly dominant years, but at the same time is still capable of. Well, an astonishing achievement in the making of Domesday Book.

Emily Brifitts (43:34)

As we're coming to William's late years, could you tell us how and when William died?

Professor David Bates (43:40)

Well, what we're told is that he was setting off on another military expedition, advancing towards Paris to French Vexin, towards the town of Mantes Mont La Jolie. And there he, apparently, because he'd become very fat in his later years, he ruptured his intestines and he was then moved away from the centre of the city and its noise to the outskirts, the Monastery of Saint Gervaires. And he died there on 9 September 1087.

Emily Brifitts (44:16)

Unfortunately, he has quite a famous funeral for being an unsuccessful one, doesn't he?

Professor David Bates (44:22)

He does, yes, he does. What you have in mind is that it becomes corpulent, that the coffin wasn't large enough. They had to remake the coffin and of course it made a terrible smell of his body ruptured.

Emily Brifitts (44:37)

So, yes, quite a sad ending to quite a powerful figure.

Professor David Bates (44:42)

Yes, yes, one can say quite a sad ending. Although, of course, the medieval mind chose sometimes to interpret that rather differently. This is God showing disapproval. Etc. Etc. But there's one last remarkable thing that I think I must mention. After William's death, his son William, of course, King of the English, very early in 1088, accompanied by Odo of Bayeux, who has now been released, they go to York to lay the foundation stone of the Abbey of St. Mary's York. It's almost an act of atonement for what father and brother had done. So William is what might be thought. The evil things he did were there still very present in people's minds and it's very moving to go to the site of the Abbey of St. Mary's and think what people must have been thinking then on that day.

Emily Brifitts (45:43)

With that in mind, obviously, opinion really varies on William. How do you think we should assess his legacy today?

Professor David Bates (45:53)

Oh, yes. Well, first of all, all the debates will continue with the forthcoming loan of the biotapestry, the millennium of his birth and all the events that are starting to be planned 2027. So lots will be said. I think in the end I chose when I wrote about him to say that his life is a parable on the use of violence in what was believed to be a just cause. I mean, in other words, for me there are great things doomsday book, which we know and we can look at. But in the end we should reflect on his life as epitomizing one of the great issues of human history, which will always be there. And that in the end is what I would finally say, which is an invitation to people to think at the same time that I tried in a discussion to create a portrait of the man at the heart of events that.

Emily Brifitts (47:02)

Was David Bates, Emeritus professor in Medieval History at the University of East Anglia. During his career, David has also worked for the universities of Cardiff, Glasgow and Caen in Normandy, as well as having been director of the Institute of Historical Research. David was speaking to me. Emily Brifitts, thanks for listening to today's Life of the Week. Be sure to join us again next time to learn about another fascinating figure from the past.

Commercial Announcer (47:38)

Martha listens to her favorite band all the time. In the car, gym, even sleeping. So when they finally went on tour, Martha bundled her flight and hotel on Expedia to see them live. She saved so much, she got a seat close enough to actually see and hear them. Sort of. You were made to scream from the front row. We were made to quietly save you. More Expedia made to travel Savings vary and subject to availability. Flight inclusive packages are atoll protected.

Energy Trust of Oregon Representative (48:08)

At Energy Trust of Oregon, we understand that energy isn't just what happens when you flip a switch, it's what happens afterwards. It's a home that can provide both shelter and peace of mind. It's a business that can run more efficiently and keep their dream alive. And it's communities that can thrive today and flourish tomorrow. That's energy.

Professor David Bates (48:26)

Energy.

Energy Trust of Oregon Representative (48:27)

And that's why we partner with local utility companies to help you save energy and lower costs. For cash incentives and resources that can help power your life, visit energytrust. Org.