History Extra Podcast: WW2 Legacies and Magna Carta – History Behind the Headlines

Release Date: June 2, 2025

Hosts and Experts:

• Matt Elton: Host of the episode.
• Hannah Skoda: Fellow and tutor in Medieval Studies at St John's College, Oxford.
• Rana Mitter: St. Lee Chair in US Asia Relations at the Harvard Kennedy School, specialist in modern Chinese history.

1. Introduction to Historical Reflections

Matt Elton opens the episode by welcoming listeners to "History Behind the Headlines," a monthly series where experts delve into historical events that resonate with current affairs. In this episode, the focus is on the 80th anniversary of VE Day and its lingering legacies, alongside discussions on the Magna Carta and its contemporary relevance.

2. VE Day's 80th Anniversary and Its Modern Implications

Rana Mitter begins by reflecting on the 80th anniversary of VE Day in 2025, highlighting how memories of World War II remain deeply ingrained in national identities. He observes:

“Memories of World War II and a victory in Europe are still much more bifurcated than I might have expected this far on.” ([02:56])

Rana points out the recent gathering in Red Square, Moscow, where Vladimir Putin invoked WWII to assert Russia’s legacy, despite the historical complexities such as the Nazi-Soviet Non-Aggression Pact. He notes the absence of Western leaders at the event, suggesting a shift in global power dynamics with figures like Xi Jinping and Brazil’s President Lula in attendance.

A significant legacy of WWII discussed is refugee flight. Rana emphasizes that the mass displacement seen during and after the war has enduring effects, drawing parallels to current refugee crises in regions like Ukraine, the Middle East, and Myanmar.

3. Historical Perspectives on Refugee Flight and Migration

Hannah Skoda expands on the theme of refugee flight by tracing its roots back to the medieval era. She highlights the Huguenot diaspora of the 16th century, where Protestant Huguenots fled France due to religious persecution:

“The Huguenot diaspora stretches from South Africa to the modern US. A very large proportion of now British people actually are of Huguenot descent.” ([09:12])

Moving further back, Hannah discusses the 14th-century migration to England, driven by economic factors and the devastation of the Black Death. She references an AHRC-funded project revealing that between 1330 and 1550, England welcomed 64,000 named immigrants, primarily skilled workers from regions like the Netherlands, Italy, and Germany.

A fascinating example is Nicholas Joan from Bologna, who presents King Henry VI with exotic animals, symbolizing the interconnectedness of medieval Europe:

“Nicholas Joan decided he needed to thank the king for what he was doing. So he presented Henry VI with three camels and an ostrich from Turkey.” ([17:08])

This anecdote illustrates the multicultural and interdependent nature of medieval societies.

4. Early Concepts of Human Rights in Medieval Contexts

Rana Mitter connects the historical discussions to the evolution of international humanitarian institutions. He traces the origins of modern refugee and migration regimes to post-WWII efforts but acknowledges broader historical precedents.

Hannah Skoda provides compelling cases from the medieval period that hint at early human rights notions. She recounts the story of Antoine Simon, a black slave from Barcelona who successfully argued for his freedom in Pamier, South France:

“They go into enormous detail about why Antoine Simon should in fact be free and cannot possibly be accused of thieving himself, because he is a human being.” ([25:07])

Additionally, she references a 15th-century morality play performed at the Congress of Arras in 1435, which features allegorical figures advocating against war and for human dignity:

“The Poor Commons opens the play with a very, very lengthy speech about how war is destroying the community...” ([26:22])

These examples demonstrate that ethical considerations and early human rights were present in medieval discourse, laying foundational ideas for future humanitarian efforts.

5. Medieval Documents in Modern Headlines

Transitioning to contemporary relevance, Hannah Skoda discusses recent headlines featuring medieval documents:

1. Edward II’s Coronation Roll (1308): Displayed alongside King Charles III’s coronation roll, highlighting historical continuity and contrasts.

   “Edward in this role doesn't mention his wife at all, Queen Isabella, but he does mention Piers Gaveston...” ([28:26])

2. Magna Carta Copy at Harvard: Previously believed to be a copy, now confirmed as an original from 1300. This document underscores the enduring principle that kings are subject to the law.

   “Magna Carta... is massively important symbol of this principle that rulers should not stand above the law.” ([32:52])

Rana Mitter reflects on the Magna Carta’s relevance today, especially in light of contemporary challenges to legal and human rights:

“Maybe many of those rights which free men and free women... are worth keeping in mind in the present day as well...” ([32:52])

The discussion emphasizes how medieval documents continue to influence modern legal frameworks and societal values.

6. Nationalization of Railways: A Historical Continuum

The conversation shifts to the recent nationalization of Southwest Railways in the UK, examining its historical context and ongoing debates about railway management.

Rana Mitter draws parallels to the 19th-century railway developments, particularly the Beeching Axe of the 1960s, which drastically reduced the UK’s railway network:

“Richard Beeching... put forward a proposal for essentially cutting very, very large numbers of lines.” ([33:35])

He discusses the economic and social factors that have perpetuated the privatization and nationalization cycle of railways, noting the persistent challenges in balancing profitability with public service.

Hannah Skoda adds a medieval perspective on transportation infrastructure, highlighting the importance of road maintenance and regulation in ensuring safe passage:

“There is a very strong sense that the well being of the community as a whole... depends on having roads which are safe to travel along.” ([42:07])

She references Royal laws against highwaymen and the implementation of turnpike tolls, illustrating early efforts to manage transportation networks effectively.

The discussion also touches on public nostalgia for railways, linking it to the historical significance of transportation in societal development.

7. Conclusion: Reflecting on History’s Influence

Matt Elton concludes the episode by acknowledging the rich historical insights provided by Hannah and Rana. The conversation underscores the continuity of historical themes such as migration, human rights, and infrastructure in shaping contemporary issues. Listeners are left with a nuanced understanding of how past events and documents continue to influence and inform present-day society.

Notable Quotes:

• Rana Mitter on WWII's enduring impact:

  “Memories of World War II and a victory in Europe are still much more bifurcated than I might have expected this far on.” ([02:56])

• Hannah Skoda on the Huguenot diaspora:

  “A very large proportion of now British people actually are of Huguenot descent.” ([09:12])

• Hannah Skoda on medieval human rights:

  “They go into enormous detail about why Antoine Simon should in fact be free and cannot possibly be accused of thieving himself, because he is a human being.” ([25:07])

• Rana Mitter on the evolution of international institutions:

  “It's really a modern development in the sense of maybe the last 200 years or so, to have that kind of cooperation...” ([21:02])

• Hannah Skoda on Edward II’s coronation roll:

  “Edward in this role doesn't mention his wife at all, Queen Isabella, but he does mention Piers Gaveston...” ([28:26])

• Rana Mitter reflecting on Magna Carta today:

  “Maybe many of those rights which free men and free women... are worth keeping in mind in the present day as well...” ([32:52])

This episode of the History Extra podcast seamlessly weaves together historical analysis and contemporary relevance, offering listeners a comprehensive exploration of how past events continue to shape our present and future.