Podcast Summary

History of Philosophy Without Any Gaps

Episode 108: George Boys-Stones on the Greek Church Fathers
Host: Peter Adamson
Guest: George Boys-Stones, Professor of Ancient Philosophy, Durham University
Date: December 23, 2012

Main Theme

This episode explores the relationship between early Greek Church Fathers and the philosophical traditions of antiquity, especially Platonism, and examines how these thinkers both drew upon and diverged from Hellenic philosophy in forming early Christian theological concepts. The discussion gives special focus to figures like Justin Martyr, Clement of Alexandria, and Origen, the doctrine of the Trinity, the role of historical events in Christian thought, and the Greek-Latin transition among Early Church Fathers.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Greek Philosophy in the New Testament

• Hellenic Influence in Palestine:
  • Palestine was culturally Hellenized well before the rise of Christianity, making it "quite natural for people with any level of Greek education... to be phrasing their ideas in terms of the concepts of Greek philosophy." (Boys-Stones, 00:53)
• Stoicism and Paul:
  • Some detect Stoic influences, especially in Paul, but Boys-Stones argues such claims "seem to me to be quite implausible as a matter of historical possibility" (01:48).
  • Paul likely absorbed Stoic ideas present in the intellectual milieu rather than directly from texts (02:02).
• Comparison with Philo:
  • Philo of Alexandria is an example of a Jewish philosopher deeply engaged with Greek philosophy—"Philo and other Jews of the first and second centuries BC clearly are engaging very closely with Greek philosophy..." (Boys-Stones, 02:32).

2. The Greek Church Fathers and Platonism

• Influence vs. Identity:
  • While early Greek Church Fathers clearly draw from Platonism, calling them "Christian Platonists" oversimplifies; they "tend to be quite clear that Plato is as good as it gets in the non Christian tradition of philosophy, but that it stopped short of getting the most important insights..." (Boys-Stones, 03:26).
  • They did not call themselves Platonists; to do so would be to “take Plato as a philosophical authority. And Christians don’t do that.” (03:26)
• Distance from Platonism:
  • The Fathers "map out ways in which they're different from Platonism… it's not even quite right to think of them as a branch of Platonism." (05:56)
  • Their project is independent: "Platonism is the immediate point of reference... but Christian philosophy is its own development." (05:56)
• Common Ground with Neoplatonism:
  • Both Platonists (like Plotinus) and Christian Fathers reject Stoic immanence: "the major point... is that in order to have a proper explanation of the world, you have to go to a transcendent first cause." (Boys-Stones, 06:58)
  • Memorable moment: "The problem with the Stoics is that they worship the created, not the Creator..." (06:58)

3. Trinitarian Doctrine and Platonic Comparison

• Trinity as a "Work in Progress":
  • Early Fathers are committed to some idea of the Trinity, but "most of these accounts... don't really capture what later becomes the orthodox sense..." (Boys-Stones, 08:04)
  • Subordinationism: “Quite often God the Son is conceived as a derivative being from the Father...” (08:04)
• Comparison with Plotinus:
  • Similar to the relation between the One and Intellect in Plotinus; "God the Son at least takes the place that the forms take in a Platonist system." (09:14)
• The Logos:
  • Use of the term logos aligns with both Platonic and Stoic traditions. Philo, for instance, uses logos as "the rationality that emanates from God." (10:01)
• Platonic Triads and the Trinity:
  • Both traditions reference the (spurious) Platonic "Second Letter" on three principles, tempting Christians to map the Trinity onto Platonic triads, "But getting the Holy Spirit into the equation is rather harder..." (11:53)
  • “The Holy Spirit doesn’t really play the role of a metaphysical principle in early Christian thought, but rather it’s a sort of principle of inspiration.” (Boys-Stones, 11:53)
• Procession and Return:
  • Adamson proposes mapping Platonic "procession" and "return" onto the Trinity, but Boys-Stones notes it's not present in pre-Plotinian Christian thought (12:42).

4. Historical Events and the Christian Worldview

• Emphasis on History:
  • Christianity uniquely focuses on historical events, notably the Incarnation. This is “really distinct about this Christian tradition" (13:27).
• Creation and Purpose:
  • Christians are "quite radical about the world having a beginning... and having a purpose..." (Boys-Stones, 14:11).
  • The Christian God creates not just the world, but matter itself: “there being anything at all” is explained by Christianity’s view of creation (14:11).
• Free Will and Necessity:
  • Christian creation is a "free act of generosity," unlike the necessary emanation in Platonism (15:28).
  • Memorable quote from Origen vs. Celsus: “the world simply has no meaning if it isn’t created for some purpose...” (Boys-Stones, 16:15).
• The Incarnation as Revelation:
  • Incarnation is primarily about revelation—"the healing of the mind as much as a redemption of the body" (Adamson, 21:12).

5. Knowledge, Revelation, and Divine Generosity

• Limitations of Reason:
  • Platonists get far with reason, but Christians argue this is insufficient—reason alone can’t reveal the historical and moral narrative of the world (18:23).
  • Thus, revelation and inspiration (the Holy Spirit) are essential: “there are serious limits on what you can arrive at by sheer inference.” (18:23)
• Revelation as Repeated Divine Grace:
  • "He [God] creates the world for us. He sends us his son... He also gives us revelation and prophetic inspiration..." (Adamson, 19:37)
  • Boys-Stones: "What the Incarnation is primarily about is itself an act of revelation." (19:56)
  • Jesus as the supreme epistemological authority, revealing how to understand Scripture (20:45).

6. Greek vs. Latin Church Fathers

• Linguistic and Cultural Context:
  • Greek was the dominant cultural language for philosophy in the early centuries; differences between Greek and Latin Fathers were not initially significant (22:06).
  • In the fourth century, there is a shift: decline in Greek, flourishing in Latin literature and a major translation movement (Jerome, Rufinus translating the Bible and Greek Fathers) (22:40).
• Transmission of Philosophy:
  • Latin translations also bring Platonic and Aristotelian works to Latin readers (e.g., Chalcidius' Timaeus, Victorinus' Aristotle and Plotinus).
  • Augustine relies on this Latin tradition and translation for his knowledge of Platonism (23:35).
  • The shift from Greek to Latin Fathers is likened to the transition from Middle to Neoplatonism (24:10).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "Platonism is the immediate point of reference for them in the Greek tradition." – Boys-Stones (05:56)
• "The Platonists... are arguing against the Stoics, that the Stoics are kind of right, but limited in how far they're right." – Boys-Stones (03:26)
• "They’re not simply refusing the term Platonist. They actually, as I say, map out ways in which they're different from Platonism." – Boys-Stones (05:56)
• "In order to have a proper explanation of the world, you have to go to a transcendent first cause." – Boys-Stones (06:58)
• "The main point of coincidence [with Plotinus] is in the rejection of immanent explanations of divinity, favoring transcendence."
• "The Holy Spirit doesn't really play the role of a metaphysical principle in early Christian thought, but rather it’s a sort of principle of inspiration." – Boys-Stones (11:53)
• "Christians are quite radical about the world having a beginning... and having a purpose..." – Boys-Stones (14:11)
• "What the Incarnation is primarily about is itself an act of revelation." – Boys-Stones (19:56)
• "It's more like a double act of revelation, I think." – Boys-Stones (21:22)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:34–02:47: Hellenistic and philosophical influences on the New Testament; comparisons between Paul and Philo
• 03:20–06:34: Church Fathers, Platonism, independent Christian philosophical development
• 06:34–09:48: Agreements and differences between Christian Fathers and Plotinus, including the Trinity
• 10:01–13:27: Logos, Platonic triads, and the challenge of fitting the Trinity into Platonist metaphysics
• 13:27–15:51: Importance of history, creation, purpose, and free will in Christian thought
• 16:35–21:38: Origen's cosmology and fall of intellects; limits of reason, knowledge, and revelation in Christianity
• 22:06–24:28: Comparison of early Greek and Latin Church Fathers; the role of translation and transition to Augustine

Summary Table

| Segment | Main Topic | Timestamp | |---------------------------------------|-----------------------------------------------------------------|------------| | Hellenistic Influence | Ancient philosophy in the New Testament and Paul | 00:34–02:47| | Platonist Influence on Fathers | Christian engagement and distance from Platonism | 03:20–06:34| | Christian vs. Neoplatonist God | Trinity, Logos, and metaphysics | 06:34–13:27| | Christian Historical Perspective | Creation, Incarnation, purpose of the world | 13:27–16:35| | Knowledge and Revelation | Role of reason vs. inspiration; Origen and epistemology | 16:35–21:38| | Greek vs. Latin Traditions | Language, translation, and philosophical transmission | 22:06–24:28|

Closing Note

This episode lays out the unique position of early Greek Church Fathers as both heirs and critics of Platonism, showing how they forged an independent philosophical identity. It illuminates how their innovations—most notably in metaphysics, theology, and the philosophy of history—set the groundwork for later Christian thought, distinguishing it from its Greek and Roman philosophical antecedents.