History of Philosophy Without Any Gaps – Episode 475

Ariane Schneck on Elisabeth and Descartes

Date: September 7, 2025
Host: Peter Adamson
Guest: Ariane Schneck

Brief Overview

In this episode, Peter Adamson interviews Ariane Schneck about the intellectual exchange between Princess Elisabeth of Bohemia and René Descartes. They explore the rich, wide-ranging correspondence between Elisabeth and Descartes—one that dives deep into philosophy, mathematics, science, the "mind-body problem," the nature and role of the passions, and Elisabeth’s unique contributions to early modern thought. Special attention is given to the dynamics of authority and gender in their interaction, Elisabeth’s influence on Descartes, and her legacy within women’s intellectual history.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

The Elisabeth–Descartes Correspondence

• Origins & Nature

  • Elisabeth initiated the exchange after reading Descartes' Meditations and first wrote to him in 1643 ([01:01]).
  • The correspondence consists of almost 60 letters, covering approximately 120 pages in English translation ([02:42]).
  • Topics: philosophy (especially the mind-body problem), mathematics, natural sciences, Elisabeth’s health, politics, moral philosophy, and personal matters.

• Character and Tone

  • The exchange is notably friendly and sincere. Elisabeth signs off as “your most affectionate friend,” while Descartes ends with “your most humble and obedient servant” ([02:44]).
  • Despite gender conventions, Schneck maintains that Elisabeth framed her criticisms diplomatically but with confidence and persistence ([03:45]).
  • The letters were originally intended as private, not for public or scholarly consumption ([04:30]).

“She did not let Descartes escape that easily… she repeated her criticisms if he tried to like not really answer them.” — Ariane Schneck ([03:52])

Hierarchies and Power Dynamics

• Complex Relations
  • Peter Adamson and Schneck discuss how status, gender, age, and intellect influenced their relationship. Elisabeth was a younger royal woman; Descartes, an older but non-royal philosophical celebrity ([05:42]–[07:45]).
  • Elisabeth was recognized for her mathematical skills, which prompted Descartes to challenge her with advanced problems ([06:38]).
  • Her education was thorough—she spoke at least five languages, including Greek, and excelled in mathematics, much of it self-taught ([07:52]).

“She spoke it so fluently that her siblings called her La Greg.” — Ariane Schneck ([07:59])

The Mind-Body Interaction Problem

• Elisabeth’s Core Challenge
  • She pressed Descartes on how the immaterial mind could causally affect the material body (and vice versa), focusing especially on the possibility of voluntary action ([09:35]).
  • Elisabeth demonstrated deep understanding of mechanisms of causation, pushing Descartes to explain interaction in non-Aristotelian, non-material terms ([09:55]).

“She completely dismisses that option… You already proved in your physics that this is completely wrong, so why should it now help us to understand mind, body interaction?” — Ariane Schneck ([12:32])

• Her Own Hypotheses

  • Elisabeth speculates about the mind having attributes beyond thought, possibly some form of extension—a notion some interpret as proto-materialism or as a “ghost-like” entity ([13:25]).
  • Scholars such as Lisa Shapiro and Deborah Tollefson debate how materialist or dualist Elisabeth’s views really were ([14:07]).

• Descartes’ Response

  • He introduces the concept of “primitive notions,” including a third type—union of mind and body—insisting experience shows such a union exists, though this does not concretely explain interaction ([15:44]–[17:09]).
  • Elisabeth remains unsatisfied: “I want to understand how it's possible. And this notion of a third primitive substance doesn't really help with that.” ([16:55])

“Yeah, it's just a kind of name for the phenomenon.” — Peter Adamson ([17:07])

The Passions and the Practical Side of Philosophy

• Transition to Passions
  • The pair eventually “agree to disagree” on the interaction problem and shift their correspondence to the passions and emotional life ([17:43]–[19:16]).
  • Passions presuppose mind-body union; their discussion assumes interaction works even if its mechanism remains obscure ([18:31]).

“They seem to assume, okay, we don't really know why, how it works, but we know that it works. And now let's talk about more in more detail about the phenomenon of experiencing emotions.” — Ariane Schneck ([18:52])

• Elisabeth’s Influence on Descartes’ ‘Passions of the Soul’

  • At Elisabeth’s urging, Descartes drafts what becomes Passions of the Soul ([20:11]).
  • The correspondence clearly influences the published text, with Elisabeth’s criticisms and philosophical suggestions showing up in the final version ([29:08]–[29:46]).

• Contrasting Approaches to Emotions

  • Descartes: Advocates a (neo-)Stoic model of rational control—happiness depends on desiring only what’s in one’s power, and regret/desire for unattainable things is seen as irrational ([21:25]).
  • Elisabeth: Argues this is psychologically impossible and undesirable. For her, emotions—including negative ones like regret—play vital, corrective, motivating, and social roles ([23:35]–[26:55]).

“I know I cannot be healthy... But I still want them. So just… acknowledging that I cannot do anything to get them doesn't make me stop wanting them.” — Ariane Schneck, channeling Elisabeth ([24:32])

• Aristotelian Influence
  • Elisabeth’s perspective aligns more with Aristotelian (peripatetic) ethics, where emotions are integral to virtuous action, rather than Stoic suppression ([26:55]).
  • She may have been influenced by earlier thinkers such as Edward Reynolds, who dedicated a treatise on the passions to her ([27:05]).

Women in Early Modern Philosophy

• Elisabeth’s Place in Intellectual History
  • Schneck and Adamson affirm Elisabeth as a pioneering woman philosopher, predating the rise of the salon culture or explicit feminism ([30:32]).
  • Despite later historiographical neglect or reduction to Descartes’ “muse,” Elisabeth was renowned in her time as a learned philosopher and scientist ([31:20]).

“She paved the way for other later women natural philosophers like Cavendish or Du Chatelet.” — Ariane Schneck ([31:50])

• Restoring Her Legacy
  • Adamson highlights that while many women philosophers were erased or diminished in later accounts, Elisabeth’s influence on Descartes and her independent thought deserve recognition ([32:31]–[32:40]).
  • Schneck argues her philosophical contributions should not be reduced to gendered analyses: “I try to show that I think it was more the Neo Aristotelian or Neo Peripatetic position and not the woman's point of view.” ([33:13])

Memorable Quotes & Timestamps

• On the Correspondence:
  “All in all, we have almost 60 letters… about like 120 pages of text. And… the tone between them is very friendly.” — Ariane Schneck ([02:42])

• On Elisabeth’s Method:
  “She did not let Descartes escape that easily… she repeated her criticisms if he tried to like not really answer them.” — Ariane Schneck ([03:52])

• On the Mind-Body Problem:
  “She completely dismisses that option… you already proved in your physics that this is completely wrong, so why should it now help us to understand mind, body interaction?” — Ariane Schneck ([12:32])

• On Passion and Rationality:
  “She often says, I know I cannot be healthy… but I still want them. So just… acknowledging that I cannot do anything to get them doesn't make me stop wanting them.” — Ariane Schneck ([24:32])

• On Virtue and Emotion:
  “[Elizabeth] thinks that the kind of emotional control or rational control over our emotion that Descartes thinks is possible… is just not feasible.” — Ariane Schneck ([23:35])

• On Intellectual Legacy:
  “She paved the way for other later women natural philosophers like Cavendish or Du Chatelet…” — Ariane Schneck ([31:50])

Important Segments & Timestamps

• [01:01] — Origins and contents of the Elisabeth–Descartes correspondence
• [07:52] — Elisabeth’s education and intellectual prowess
• [09:35] — The formulation of the mind-body interaction problem
• [12:32] — Elisabeth’s pushback on Aristotelian causation
• [18:52] — The shift to discussing the passions
• [20:11] — Elisabeth’s influence on Descartes’ Passions of the Soul
• [23:35] — The debate over the nature and function of emotions; Aristotelian vs. Stoic views
• [27:05] — External influences and Elisabeth’s philosophical orientation
• [30:32] — Elisabeth's pioneering status among women philosophers
• [32:31] — Restoring Elisabeth’s role in the history of philosophy

Conclusion

This episode provides a thorough exploration of Elisabeth of Bohemia’s philosophical correspondence with Descartes, revealing her as a confident, analytical, and influential philosophical interlocutor. Schneck emphasizes both the depth of Elisabeth’s critiques (especially of Cartesian dualism and rationalist attitudes toward emotion) and her broader significance as an intellectual pioneer among early modern women. The conversation underscores how scholarly attention to these letters not only clarifies Descartes’ development but also restores Elisabeth to her rightful place in the philosophical canon.