Introducing: What We Spend

Summary

History That Doesn't Suck: Episode Summary - "Introducing: What We Spend"

Release Date: April 28, 2025
Host: Prof. Greg Jackson

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Introduction to the Episode

In the episode titled "Introducing: What We Spend," Professor Greg Jackson sets the stage for a new exploration into the intricacies of personal finance through an affiliated podcast called "What We Spend." This episode marks the collaboration between History That Doesn't Suck (HTDS) and Odyssey, aiming to delve deep into the financial lives of American families to uncover the realities of kitchen table economics.

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Promotional Segment and Upcoming Content

Before transitioning into the main content, Prof. Jackson briefly mentions recent and upcoming episodes of HTDS, highlighting subjects such as:

• The Hoover Dam: A narrative on the monumental effort to control the Colorado River and its human cost ([00:03:25]).
• Engineering Marvels: Including episodes on the Golden Gate Bridge, the Empire State Building, and aviation pioneers like Charles Lindbergh and Amelia Earhart.

He also promotes HTDS membership, encouraging listeners to support the podcast for ad-free content and exclusive perks, emphasizing the importance of accessible and engaging historical narratives.

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Introducing "What We Spend" Podcast

Prof. Jackson introduces "What We Spend," a new podcast by Odyssey that ventures into the rarely explored domain of personal finances. The primary objective is to unveil the day-to-day financial decisions and pressures faced by average American families.

Courtney Harrell's Role

Courtney Harrell, the host of "What We Spend," elaborates on the podcast's mission:

“We are actually going to do that. We are going to go somewhere that we almost never get to go deep into the heart of someone else's finances.”
— Courtney Harrell [03:25]

She emphasizes the societal tendency to be curious—and sometimes invasive—about others' financial status and outlines the podcast's approach to demystify personal economics by providing transparent insights into individuals' financial lives.

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Sample Episode: Kelly's Financial Journey

Meet Kelly

In a sample episode shared by "What We Spend," Courtney introduces Kelly, a 32-year-old resident of Salt Lake City, Utah. Kelly's financial landscape is characterized by significant student debt and the challenges of balancing household expenses with personal aspirations.

Student Debt Struggles

Kelly candidly discusses her student loan burden:

“I have 150,000. I had more. I had 300,000 after my master's. ... I press[ed] submit on $150,000 payment and just being like, holy sh T.”
— Kelly [05:22]

She reveals the emotional impact of her parents' support in paying off part of her debt, expressing a lingering sense of financial insecurity despite the substantial relief.

Household Finances

Kelly and her husband, Ben, navigate their finances with a combined income just below the average for married couples in Salt Lake City. Their monthly budget is meticulously detailed:

• Rent and Utilities: $2,800 ([08:07])
• Gym Memberships: $108
• Car Insurance: $254
• Gas: $125
• Pet Insurance: $76
• Physical Therapy: $250
• Groceries: $600
• Subscriptions and Miscellaneous: Various expenses totaling around $4,800 monthly, not including debt repayments

Despite a stable income, Kelly finds certain expenses, such as groceries and personal care, particularly burdensome.

Debt and Financial Planning

Kelly openly discusses the weight of her debt, totaling $202,728, including student loans:

“I am financially trapped.”
— Kelly [11:46]

She reflects on her educational choices, revealing regret over the high cost of her degrees and the societal pressures that led her to pursue higher education without a clear plan for debt repayment.

Emotional Relationship with Money

Describing her relationship with money, Kelly likens it to an addiction:

“It feels like the monkey on their back. ... It's just clinging and it's present with you all the time.”
— Kelly [07:17]

This metaphor underscores the pervasive stress and constant presence of financial worries in her daily life.

Budgeting Practices

To manage her finances, Kelly employs a strict budgeting routine:

“On a Sunday, I will sit down and look at the budget. And I made a spreadsheet.”
— Kelly [07:49]

Her detailed budgeting includes tracking every dollar spent, from significant expenses like rent to minor indulgences such as monthly hair treatments.

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Insights and Reflections

Throughout the episode, significant themes emerge:

1. The Psychological Burden of Debt: Kelly's experience highlights how substantial debt can dominate one's mental landscape, affecting both personal well-being and financial decision-making.

2. Balancing Aspirations with Reality: The struggle to achieve life goals, such as home ownership and starting a family, is juxtaposed with the constraints of existing financial obligations.

3. Impact of Societal Expectations: Kelly's narrative touches on the pressure to pursue higher education as a societal norm, often without adequate consideration of the long-term financial implications.

4. Transparency in Personal Finances: "What We Spend" aims to normalize conversations about money, reducing the stigma and secrecy that often surround personal financial matters.

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Conclusion and Call to Action

Prof. Jackson concludes by urging listeners to engage with "What We Spend," available on the Odyssey app and other podcast platforms. He emphasizes the value of understanding personal finance through real-life stories, fostering a community of informed and financially literate individuals.

“To listen to the rest of this episode and others, be sure to check out What We Spend. Available now on the free Odyssey app and wherever you get your podcasts.”
— Greg Jackson [13:22]

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Kelly on Debt Feeling:

  “I am financially trapped.”
  — Kelly [11:46]

• Kelly Describing Money as an Addiction:

  “It feels like the monkey on their back.”
  — Kelly [07:17]

• Courtney on Nosiness About Money:

  “I think we should be talking about money more and all the ways, big and small, that it impacts our lives.”
  — Courtney Harrell [03:25]

• Kelly on Budgeting Anxiety:

  “I'm feeling nervous because maybe I will just realize through tracking every expense that I'm actually just a dum dum and I'm very irresponsible and this is all my fault...”
  — Kelly [12:54]

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Final Thoughts

"Introducing: What We Spend" serves as a compelling entry point into the collaborative efforts of HTDS and Odyssey to shed light on the financial realities faced by countless Americans. By intertwining historical storytelling with contemporary financial narratives, the episode enriches listeners' understanding of both personal and collective economic landscapes.

For those seeking to comprehend the nuanced relationship between money and daily life, this episode offers a valuable and empathetic exploration, setting the tone for future discussions that promise to be both informative and deeply human.

Transcript

[Greg Jackson]

Summer's around the corner, which means it's time to plan your next getaway, maybe to a historical site of the American Revolution. Like me, I love using points for travel and am always looking for ways to earn more. If you're a renter, one way to earn points is through bilt. There's no cost to join, and just by paying rent, you unlock flexible points that can be transferred to your favorite hotels and airlines, a future rent payment or your next Lyft ride, and more. When you pay rent through bilt, you unlock two powerful benefits. First, you earn one of the industry's most valuable points on rent every month. No matter where you live or who your landlord is, your rent now works for you. Second, you gain access to exclusive neighborhood benefits in your city. BILT neighborhood benefits are things like extra points on dining out, complimentary post workout shakes, free mats or towels at your favorite fitness studios, and unique experiences that only BILT members can access. And when you're ready to travel, BILT points can be converted to your favorite miles and hotel points around the world, meaning your rent can literally take you places. So if you're not earning points on rent, my question is, what are you waiting for? Start paying rent through BILT and take advantage of your neighborhood benefits by going to joinbuilt.comhistory that's J O I N B I L T.comhistory. make sure to use our URL so they know we sent you joinbuilt.comhistory to sign up for Built Today. I've been counted out, dismissed, passed over, told I'd never be a golfer with just one arm. But the only thing that feels better than proving people wrong is out driving them. I'm 14 year old golfer Tommy Morrissey and I want to be remembered for my ability as a champion partner of the Masters. Bank of America supports everyone determined to find out what's possible in golf and in life. What would you like the Power to do? Bank of America bank of America NA Member FDIC Copyright 2025 bank of America Corporation all rights reserved. Welcome to history that doesn't suck. I'm your professor, Greg Jackson and as in the classroom, my goal here is to make rigorously researched history come to life. As your storyteller, each episode is the result of laborious research with no agenda other than making the past come to life as you learn. If you'd like to help support this work, receive ad free episodes, bonus content and other exclusive perks. I invite you to join the HTDS membership program. Sign up for a seven day free trial today at htdspodcast.com membership or click the link in the episode notes. Hello, my friends, this is Professor Jackson. A new HTDS episode will debut next Monday, May 5th. It's the first of several new episodes covering engineering and aviation achievements from the 1930s. First up, the Hoover Dam. It's the epic story of taming a wild river and 100 plus deaths, all in the name of making life for tens of millions of Americans in the Southwest possible. Other episodes include the Golden Gate Bridge and the Empire State Building. We'll also meet Charles Lindbergh and Amelia Earhart. In the meantime, this week we're sharing a new podcast from our colleagues at Odyssey called what We Spend. On this interesting new show, they go somewhere that we almost never go, opening the books of someone else's personal finances with their consent, of course. The goal is to learn a little about kitchen table economics from a cross section of American families. But I'll let the host, Courtney Harrell explain in this sample episode and be sure to search for and follow what we spend.

[Courtney Harrell]

You know how you always want to know about everyone else's money? You do, right? Like you'll see someone buying something you want or taking some amazing vacation and you think, how can they afford that? Or you meet your friend's new girlfriend and she has some very impressive job and you think, how much money does she make? I think when it comes to money, even if you don't want to admit it, we're all a little nosy. But I don't know, I actually think that's good. I think we should be talking about money more and all the ways, big and small, that it impacts our lives. On this show, we are actually going to do that. We are going to go somewhere that we almost never get to go deep into the heart of someone else's finances. Here's how this is going to work. Each week I'm going to introduce you to a new person from somewhere across the country and they are going to tell us everything about their finances. How much they make, how much they want to make, what they worry about, or if they don't worry at all. And then for one week, one follow them through their daily routine. Every day they'll record an audio diary with all the nitty gritty details of how they're spending their money. I mean, the coffees, the groceries, the rent that's due, the car accident that suddenly upends everything. And after that, we'll talk about what the week brought up for them, what it's made them feel. Because whatever you're buying or not buying or saving or spending, at the end of the day, money is always about more than your balance. I'm Courtney Harrell, and this is what we spend. How much school debt do you have?

[Kelly]

I have 150,000. I had more. I had 300,000 after my master's. I had a great uncle pass away who was an artist. And my parents chose with their share of that that they would help pay off all my private loans. And so that was a crazy night. I remember pressing submit on $150,000 payment and just being like, holy sh T. And they were like, yay. Doesn't that feel so much better? And I was kind of like, it feels like 50% better. And it still feels like I have still $150,000 of debt.

[Courtney Harrell]

This is Kelly.

[Kelly]

I turn 32 in one week, and I live in Salt Lake City.

[Courtney Harrell]

Kelly is One of the 42.8 million Americans who has student loan debt. And also, like a lot of her generation, she wants to buy a home and have a baby, and she's trying to figure out if it's possible to make all that work. Kelly married her husband about a year ago, and eight months ago, the two of them moved from Tennessee to Salt Lake City, Utah. Ben is an engineer for a software company. Kelly's a director of client experience at a medical spa, and she's also an online mental wellness coach.

[Kelly]

I used to be a therapist, and for lots of reasons, I'm not right now, but I will always have therapy or coaching in my life, and I will probably go back to that full time at some point.

[Courtney Harrell]

Kelly is paid hourly, but she makes about 50k a year, and Ben makes about 78k. That's before taxes and health insurance together. That puts them just under the average income for married couple families in Salt Lake City. How would you describe your relationship with money consuming?

[Kelly]

Oh, I would describe it as all consuming. Yeah. The thing that keeps, like, coming to mind is, you know when someone has, like, an addiction or a struggle and they call it like, the monkey on their back.

[Courtney Harrell]

Yeah.

[Kelly]

Because you just can't get away from it. It's just clinging and it's present with you all the time. It feels like that. And I try really hard to, like, be in control, like, maintain my control.

[Courtney Harrell]

Yeah.

[Kelly]

But it's kind of this tug of war.

[Courtney Harrell]

What do you do on a weekly basis to manage your expenses?

[Kelly]

On a Sunday, I will sit down and look at the budget. And I made a spreadsheet.

[Courtney Harrell]

Okay. Yeah. So Walk me through your spreadsheet. So I would love to hear what all of your regular expenses are and, like, what you kind of typically pay in each category.

[Kelly]

So rent and utilities. $2,800. That's pretty expensive for rent. Anytime I tell someone that they're like, that's more than my mortgage. I'm like, yeah, I. I know. Please don't tell me what your mortgage is. I don't want to know.

[Courtney Harrell]

Two gym memberships. 108. Car insurance, 254.

[Kelly]

Gas 125.

[Courtney Harrell]

Do you have a car payment?

[Kelly]

No, we just buy used cars.

[Courtney Harrell]

Nice.

[Kelly]

Ben's car. Basically the. The roof flies off, but, you know, just don't take it on the highway, you know, we don't have a car payment.

[Courtney Harrell]

Who needs a roof?

[Kelly]

Yeah, who needs that? It's a.

[Courtney Harrell]

It's a convertible phone payment. 75. Pet insurance, 76. And physical therapy for 250. It helps with Kelly's chronic back pain and osteoarthritis.

[Kelly]

And then groceries. This one sucks the most right now, and I really feel like everyone will understand. I put 600amonth for our groceries. And I mean, that include like toiletries and stuff too.

[Courtney Harrell]

They have a Costco membership, but they pay that yearly fee with the cash back they get from their credit card.

[Kelly]

Medications and supplements. Like, Ben works out, so he has like this huge bag of protein powder that he gets from Costco. So Ben's is mostly workout supplements and just one medication. And mine is, I think, like four medications and like a probiotic and. And multivitamins total for that is 650 streaming platforms. No, we mooch off of our families.

[Courtney Harrell]

Some of the subscriptions are on them, though. Dropbox for 12, SoundCloud for 6, Spotify for 10.

[Kelly]

Hair. My hair. I put $40 next to my hair, and that's so I can spend that $40 and get my hair washed by somebody else one time every month. And it is like the gift to me to have somebody else wash my hair every once in a while. And isn't that shitty that, like, even now, just reading my own budget, that it really is just my business? I still feel the need to justify, like I just need to treat myself sometimes and have my hair washed.

[Courtney Harrell]

What does that make your expenses altogether your regular expenses?

[Kelly]

Around 4,800amonth. But then you get to debt.

[Courtney Harrell]

How much debt do you have?

[Kelly]

A lot. If you are. Including my student loans, we have $202,728 in debt.

[Courtney Harrell]

Where did you go to school?

[Kelly]

I went to Belmont University. In Nashville, Tennessee.

[Courtney Harrell]

Why did you go to school?

[Kelly]

I thought I was supposed to because I was told that, you know, this is. This is the next step. And I think this is part of, like, the. The dream or the lie that was sold to my generation was like, if you don't go to college, you're going to end up working at McDonald's, you know, and, like, you're going to be a deadbeat, and you're going to have to live with your parents, and you're probably going to use marijuana even, and, like, you're going to be a bad person, essentially, if you don't go to college.

[Courtney Harrell]

Kelly's degree cost about 40 grand a year. And after undergrad, Kelly went on to grad school at the same university. She has a master's in mental health counseling. But as Kelly sees it now, the math doesn't make much sense. I want to ask you something about that, and I mean, no judgment with this. How did you think you were going to pay off that amount of tuition? Or were you at the time, like, I know I can't pay this off. Like, how did you think about it then?

[Kelly]

Oh, no, it's a good question. I didn't. I did not think about it. I had no clue what I was doing. It wasn't like, I wonder how I'm going to pay this off when the, you know, average annual salary for a therapist is 40 to 60 thousand dollars a year. I was not thinking about that. I had no idea what I was doing, and I didn't really have anyone around me who was explaining what I was doing. Like, your prefrontal cortex is not developed when you are making those decisions. Ultimately, I don't regret anything because I am who I am and I'm happy, but I'm financially trapped.

[Courtney Harrell]

So that's Kelly. And this week, instead of just tracking it in her spreadsheet, she's going to tell us about every dollar she spends and every feeling that comes with it. How are you feeling about tracking your finances for a week?

[Kelly]

I'm feeling nervous because maybe I will just realize through tracking every expense that I'm actually just a dum dum and I'm very irresponsible and this is all my fault, but I'm feeling curious. I'm just curious to see what comes of it.

[Courtney Harrell]

Yeah, me too. I will check in with you on the other side of your week. Okay.

[Greg Jackson]

To listen to the rest of this episode and others, be sure to check out what we spend. Available now on the free Odyssey app and wherever you get your podcasts.