The Unlikely Union: "A house divided against itself cannot stand."

Summary

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History That Doesn’t Suck: "The Unlikely Union – 'A house divided against itself cannot stand.'"

Host: Prof. Greg Jackson
Date: September 29, 2025

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Overview

In this special mini-episode, Professor Greg Jackson reflects on the closing moments of the Constitutional Convention of 1787 and its enduring lessons for today’s divided America. Through recounting Benjamin Franklin’s plea for unity and his own reaction to recent political violence, Jackson urges listeners to find strength in America’s shared values and history, and to resist division, fear, and toxic rhetoric. He further connects the nation’s founding challenges to contemporary polarization, arguing for respectful discourse and civic engagement.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Final Day of the Constitutional Convention

[01:41–04:16]

• Setting: Philadelphia, September 17, 1787. Less than 40 of the original 55 delegates remained.
• Conflict: Delegates were sharply divided; some felt the proposed Constitution went too far, others not far enough.
• Benjamin Franklin’s Speech:
  • Too infirm to deliver it himself, Franklin’s address was read by James Wilson.
  • Franklin’s humility: Admitted he did not approve all parts, but recognized the need to doubt one’s own infallibility and find common ground.

    "I confess that there are several parts of this constitution which I do not at present approve, but I am not sure I shall never approve them... the older I grow, the more apt I am to doubt my own judgment and to pay more respect to the judgment of others." — [03:07] Benjamin Franklin (read by Wilson, recounted by Jackson)

  • Unanimity over perfection: Franklin called for unity despite differences, urging all to sign the document to show solidarity.
• Outcome: 39 delegates signed, three refused.

2. A Scene from the Live Show: "Unlikely Union"

[04:39–05:00]

• Jackson shares a segment from his live show to connect past and present regarding unity and division.

3. Lessons for Modern America

[05:00–08:00]

• Persistent Division: Jackson observes that division and passionate disagreement are nothing new to American politics.

  "We have always carried with us our prejudices, passions, errors of opinion, local interests and selfish views, to quote Dr. Franklin." — [05:12] Greg Jackson

• Reflection on Recent Violence:
  • References a recent act of political violence at Utah Valley University, where he teaches.
  • Condemns violence and partisan vitriol, emphasizing the importance of civil discourse.

    "Above all, we must not swallow that toxic rhetoric and spiral down a dark hole where we begin to assume that our fellow Americans... want anything less than a more perfect union." — [06:35] Greg Jackson

4. Shared History as a Source of Strength

[07:00–08:20]

• Encounters with Americans across the country: Jackson notes that, regardless of political affiliation, people come together to learn and discuss history.

  "What I've seen is everyday people, regardless of their political stripe, coming together to share in the telling of the extraordinary first century of our nation's history." — [07:06] Greg Jackson

• Perspective from History:
  • America has endured greater division (e.g., Revolution, Civil War) and emerged stronger.
  • The overriding message: unity is strength, division invites peril.

5. Lincoln’s Warning and Modern Resonance

[08:20–08:55]

• Quotes Abraham Lincoln’s famed warning from 1858:

  "A house divided against itself cannot stand. You damn right, Abe." — [08:45] Greg Jackson

6. A Call for Responsible Citizenship and Civil Dialogue

[08:55–10:20]

• Encourages listeners to model positive discourse, especially for younger generations.

  "I urge everyone to take those lessons to your conversations with your friends and family, especially the youngest ones..." — [09:17] Greg Jackson

• Praises the HTDS community for its diversity and curiosity, noting that lively, respectful disagreement strengthens democracy.

7. Invitation to Community and Civic Participation

[10:20–11:10]

• Jackson invites listeners to attend his live show, describing it as a "town hall of inspiring ideas."
• Emphasizes the importance of in-person connection in a time of division.

8. Preview of Next Episode

[11:10–End]

• Teases the upcoming regular episode, focused on America’s debate over entry into World War II.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Doubting Our Own Certainty:

  "... that we must all doubt a little of our own infallibility and make manifest our unanimity." — [05:14] Greg Jackson (paraphrasing Franklin)

• On Division and Commonality:

  "We made manifest our unanimity because we have so much more in common than in disagreement and so much more to gain when we work through our disagreements respectfully, peacefully." — [05:41]

• Condemning Polarization:

  "We must not retreat to our corners, that we must not allow bad faith commentary and social media algorithms to stoke fear and outrage." — [06:14]

• Perspective from Touring America:

  "I've already been to half of the 50 states, so called red and blue states, big cities and small towns... Our great strength is our union, and our great peril is our division." — [07:00]–[08:07]

• Lincoln’s Famous Line:

  "A house divided against itself cannot stand. You damn right, Abe." — [08:45]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:41] – Setting the scene, the tense final day at the Constitutional Convention
• [02:44] – Beginning of Franklin’s address (via James Wilson)
• [03:56] – Varied criticisms from delegates; process described
• [04:51] – Jackson introduces the episode’s main theme and contemporary relevance
• [05:12] – Linking Franklin’s advice to today’s divisions
• [06:14] – Reflection on recent political violence and condemnation of extreme rhetoric
• [07:00] – Stories from his national tour and encounters with Americans of all backgrounds
• [08:45] – Reference to Lincoln’s “house divided” speech
• [09:17] – Call to positive modeling, especially for youth
• [10:20] – Invitation to the live show and community engagement
• [11:10] – Preview of the next historical narrative episode

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Tone and Takeaways

Jackson’s style balances storytelling, reflection, and direct appeals. Through Franklin’s words, references to American history’s most fraught moments, and personal experiences, he advocates for humility, respectful disagreement, and civic unity. The episode ties past challenges to present ones, leaving listeners with a sense of historical perspective and an invitation to participate in constructive community life.

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Transcript

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[Greg Jackson]

It's Monday, September 17, 1787.

This convention has been hard. Locked in Philadelphia's hot, sweltering state House, disagreement has been sharp. Some delegates have full on rage quit. Barely more than 40 of the summer's total 55 delegates are still here. Alexander Hamilton is the only New Yorker left, and Rhode island never even sent a delegation. So at this point, the choice of every man left to sign and thereby personally endorse this constitution's proposed form of union could be its making or its undoing. In this moment, elderly Benjamin Franklin wishes.

To say a word.

It's been 33 years since he published that Join or Die cartoon, done in response to military challenges then faced in the Ohio Valley by this convention's president, George Washington. He's too old to speak at length, but Ben hands a written speech to his colleague James Wilson, who proceeds to.

Read the old Renaissance man's prepared words.

I confess that there are several parts of this constitution which I do not at present approve, but I am not sure I shall never approve them. For having lived long, I have experienced many instances of being obliged by better information or fuller consideration to change opinions, even on important subjects.

The older I grow, the more apt.

I am to tout my own judgment and to pay more respect to the judgment of others. You assemble a number of men to have the advantage of their joint wisdom. You inevitably assemble with those men all their prejudices, their passions, their. Their errors of opinion, their local interests and their selfish views. From such an assembly can a perfect production be expected. It therefore astonishes me, sir, to find this system approaching so near to perfection as it does on the whole. Sir, I cannot help expressing a wish that every member of the convention, who may still have objections to it, would with me on this occasion doubt a little of his own infallibility, and to make manifest our unanimity, put his name to this instrument.

No one here thinks this proposed federal union is perfect.

And many criticisms are for opposite reasons. William Patterson thinks the federal government is too strong. Alexander Hamilton thinks it's too weak. But it's closer to perfection than the articles.

It's a more perfect union with only three refusing. The other 39 remaining delegates put their names to it.

Filled with threats, shouts and a few.

Flying fists, the ratification process is anything but pretty. Welcome to history that doesn't suck. I'm your professor, Greg Jackson, and I'd.

Like to tell you a story.

Foreign. This is professor Greg Jackson, and welcome to a special mini episode. What you just heard was an excerpt from my live show titled the unlikely union. That was a scene from the final day of the constitutional convention in September 1787, 238 years ago. As of this recording, words were by none other than Ben Franklin, AKA the first American, who was, as you heard, appealing to his fellow convention delegates to find the common ground on which a solid civil foundation for the nation may be built. I played that scene for you because it's an important reminder from the past about how to conduct ourselves in our current fraught political times. We are greatly divided in our politics these days, and that's nothing new. We have always carried with us our prejudices, passions, errors of opinion, local interests and selfish views, to quote Dr. Franklin. So I share this with you on this occasion, that we must all doubt a little of our own infallibility and make manifest our unanimity. I firmly believe our union is our greatest source of strength. It was very unlikely that these constitutional convention delegates would find unanimity. They were from 13 disparate, distinct former British colonies that just a decade and year earlier, united to declare independence on the basis of natural rights, life liberty and the pursuit of happiness, and a radical principle that governments derive their just powers from the consent of the governed. It was unlikely that we could come together time after time during a crisis, but time after time we did. We made manifest our unanimity because we have so much more in common than in disagreement, and so much more to gain when we work through our disagreements respectfully, peacefully. A horrific act of political violence happened on the campus where I teach at Utah Valley University. It has understandably sparked national outrage. I get it. And while I've always condemned political violence and always wanted to see elevated, informed discourse in the public sphere, those are some of the very reasons for which I started this podcast. After all, there is, of course, no academic substitute for the experience of feeling and seeing condemnable, cruel and cowardly political violence in your home, a place where previously this type of thing was unthinkable. And then to see your home become a plaything for the most partisan commentators. I confess I've never felt anything like this, and it only drives my conviction all the more that we must not retreat to our corners, that we must not allow bad faith commentary and social media algorithms to stoke fear and outrage. Above all, we must not swallow that toxic rhetoric and spiral down a dark hole where we begin to assume that our fellow Americans in another city or state value life and liberty less, love America less, and want anything less than a more perfect union. And I'm here to tell you just how false those sky is falling narratives are. That's not been my experience out on the road meeting fellow Americans across this land on my national tour with the live show. I've already been to half of the 50 states, so called red and blue states, big cities and small towns. What I've seen is everyday people, regardless of their political stripe, coming together to share in the telling of the extraordinary first century of our nation's history. That period, from fiery revolution through bloody civil war, is not despite but because of its ugly and all but insurmountable challenges. A consoling reminder that we have been through far, far worse times and much greater division than is even imaginable today. And it's a cautionary tale. Our great strength is our union, and our great peril is our division. The words of the Republican candidate from illinois for the U.S. senate, spoken in 1858, ring true today. A House divided against itself cannot stand. You damn right, Abe. And I'd like for everyone hearing this message right now to consider that. I know that the HTDS audience takes the lessons of history seriously, and I Urge everyone to take those lessons to your conversations with your friends and family, especially the youngest ones, who need positive role models and challenging lessons today to help them become responsible citizens and leaders for tomorrow. Here's something else I know about the HTML audience. You're curious, smart, and don't all share the same political stripe. I know that last part because I've met many of you on the road and some of you have volunteered information about your politics. I don't really need to know that, but knowing it anecdotally tells me that HTDS is a big tent with room for everyone, and that pleases me immensely. I know that our common bond is a yearning to learn about the people that came before for us, good and bad. That we want to walk in the shoes of our fellow citizens from past times so that we might gain insights for today. So, my friends, my fellow Americans, if my lives show the unlikely union passes your way in coming months, please forgive me for feeling an even deeper conviction than ever as I invite you to bring your family and neighbors out for a night at the theater, that town hall of inspiring ideas. We've just announced a slew of new dates which you can find on our websitespodcast.com as I've said, this show is meant to be experienced together. It's not recorded for the podcast for that very reason. You'll experience me storytelling on stage in real life with live music and video. Come out and join me. Come out and meet your neighbors. Dates and cities are on our website htdspodcast.com or click the link in the show notes. I aim to eventually get to all 50 states, and I hope to see you on the road. Until then, I hope you'll continue enjoying the tale of the United States entering World War II. Next week, we carry on as the nation debates whether it should or shouldn't fully enter the war. We'll follow FDR out into the Atlantic for a second secret meeting with Winston Churchill, listen to Charles Lindbergh testify in favor of isolationism in Congress, and experience general George C. Marshall's intense military exercises as he readies the US army for war it may or may not enter. Join me then, as I'd like to tell you that story.