Here's The Beef Edition Part 2

Summary

Hit Parade | Music History and Music Trivia
Episode: Here's The Beef Edition Part 2
Release Date: July 25, 2025
Host: Chris Melanfi

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I. Introduction

In this episode of Hit Parade, Chris Melanfi delves into the storied history of musical "beefs"—contentious relationships between artists that have spanned genres and decades. Building on the previous episode's exploration of early answer records from the 1920s to the 1970s, Melanfi shifts focus to the pivotal role of diss tracks in hip hop and their evolution into mainstream music phenomena.

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II. Early Hip Hop and the Emergence of Rap Beef

Braggadocio in Early Rap

Chris begins by highlighting the foundational elements of hip hop, particularly the culture of boasting inherent in early rap. He references 1979's "Rapper's Delight" by the Sugar Hill Gang, noting MC Big Bank Hank's declaration:

"I got more clothes than Muhammad Ali..."
[02:31]

The First Known Rap Beef

The narrative transitions to the first documented rap beef in 1981. Busy Bee of Busy Bee's Inc. criticized fellow rappers' rhyming skills during a live performance, prompting Cool Mo Dee of Treacherous 3 to retaliate with sharp disses. This live showdown, captured on tape, set the stage for rap beef as a dynamic, live competitive medium.

"Everybody salute to the new mc Champ..."
[03:32]

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III. The Roxanne Wars

UTFO's "Roxanne Roxanne"

In 1984, the rap group UTFO released "Roxanne Roxanne" as a B-side track. The song's narrative about an unapproachable woman unexpectedly captured widespread attention, eventually breaking into the top 10 on Billboard's R&B chart by March 1985.

Roxanne Shanté's "Roxanne's Revenge"

Roxanne Shanté, a teenage emcee from Queens, responded with "Roxanne's Revenge," widely regarded as the first major rap beef single. Targeting UTFO's portrayal of women, Shanté's seven-minute freestyle not only sold a quarter-million copies locally but also charted nationally:

"You should be like me a fly MC don't never have to bite..."
[06:19]

The Escalation of the Roxanne Wars

The success of "Roxanne's Revenge" sparked a flood of response tracks, including UTFO's "The Real Roxanne." By late 1985, the R&B charts featured multiple Roxanne-themed songs simultaneously, leading to what became known as the Roxanne Wars.

"You think you're touching me boy you must be crazy..."
[09:01]

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IV. Bridge Wars: Queens vs. Bronx

MC Shan vs. KRS1/Boogie Down Productions

The mid-1980s saw the Bridge Wars ignite a fierce rivalry between Queens and the Bronx. MC Shan's "The Bridge" celebrated Queensbridge as the heart of rap, provoking Boogie Down Productions (BDP) leader KRS1 to respond with "South Bronx." This exchange underscored the geographical tensions within the burgeoning hip hop community.

Key Track: "The Bridge Is Over"

BDP's "The Bridge Is Over" became the hallmark of this feud, praised for its lyrical prowess and production quality, despite not charting nationally due to the nascent state of rap's mainstream acceptance.

"What's the matter with your MC Molly Ma?..."
[11:46]

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V. Evolution of Beef in the Late 80s and 90s

Cool Mo Dee vs. LL Cool J

In 1987, Cool Mo Dee elevated rap beef with his album "How U Like Me Now," featuring diss tracks aimed at LL Cool J. The title track, targeting LL's album "Bigger and Deafer," showcased Mo Dee's sharp lyrical skills:

"I'm bigger and better, forget about Deafer..."
[13:48]

N.W.A. and Internal Conflicts

The early 1990s witnessed intense beef within N.W.A., particularly between Ice Cube and Dr. Dre/Eazy-E over royalty disputes. Ice Cube's "No Vaseline" became a seminal diss track, while Dr. Dre's "Dre Day" retaliated, marking significant moments in gangsta rap's turbulent history.

"Mr. Buster, where you at? Can't scrap a lick..."
[16:49]

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VI. Diss Tracks in Pop and Rock

Guns N' Roses and Alanis Morissette

Chris explores how diss tracks transcended hip hop, influencing rock and pop music. Axl Rose of Guns N' Roses released "Get in the Ring," challenging journalists overtly:

"That goes for all you punks in the press..."
[24:48]

In 1995, Alanis Morissette's "You Oughta Know" served as a potent diss against her ex-boyfriend, reportedly Dave Coulier, redefining alternative rock with raw emotional intensity:

"There was a slap in the face how quickly I was replaced..."
[25:33]

Courtney Love and Contemporary Artists

Courtney Love became a central figure in rock beefs, with songs like Foo Fighters' "I'll Stick Around" and Tori Amos' "Professional Widow" rumored to target her. Gwen Stefani's "Hollaback Girl," inspired by a feud with Love, became a massive hit:

"Cause baby now we got bad blood..."
[29:37]

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VII. The Rise of Diss Tracks in Mainstream Pop: Taylor Swift

Early Career Disses

Taylor Swift's career is marked by a series of strategic diss tracks addressing ex-boyfriends and rival artists. From "Picture to Burn" in 2006 to "Dear John" in 2010, Swift adeptly leveraged personal feuds to craft relatable and commercially successful music:

"Dear John, I see it all now that you're gone..."
[37:20]

High-Profile Feuds and Chart Success

Swift's confrontations extended to peers like Katy Perry with "Bad Blood," which featured rapper Kendrick Lamar in its remix, blending hip hop swagger with pop sensibilities:

"Hey I can't take it back look where I'm at..."
[41:16]

Swift's ability to transform personal grievances into chart-topping hits exemplifies the integration of diss culture into mainstream pop.

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VIII. Kendrick Lamar and the Modern Beef Culture

"Control" and Its Aftermath

Kendrick Lamar's 2013 track "Control" ignited a modern beef culture by challenging contemporaries like Jay-Z, Nas, and Eminem. His aggressive verses set off a wave of responses from various artists:

"ASAP Rocky, Drake, Big Sean... I'm trying to murder you..."
[45:25]

Chart Impact and Recognition

Lamar's later diss track "Not Like Us," produced by DJ Mustard, achieved unprecedented success by topping the Hot 100 and winning multiple Grammys. This track solidified diss records as central to hip hop and pop music discourse:

"I hear you like I'm young you better ever go to Cell Block 1..."
[54:02]

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IX. Streaming's Impact on Diss Tracks

Megan Thee Stallion vs. Nicki Minaj

The rise of streaming platforms revolutionized the dissemination and popularity of diss tracks. Megan Thee Stallion's "Kiss" against Nicki Minaj debuted at number one on the Hot 100, demonstrating how dedicated streaming audiences can propel beef records to the top of the charts:

"Don't be mad at Megan, mad at Megan's Law..."
[50:56]

Kendrick Lamar's "Like That"

Following Megan's success, Kendrick Lamar’s "Like That" also topped the Hot 100, benefiting from high streaming numbers and demonstrating the continued relevance of diss tracks in the digital age:

"Done."
[52:18]

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X. Conclusion: Diss Tracks in the 2020s

Mainstream Integration and Positive Resolutions

Diss tracks have become a staple in contemporary music across genres. Artists like Miley Cyrus, Ariana Grande, and even Charli XCX engage in lighthearted or serious feuds through their music. Notably, Charli XCX and Lorde collaborated on a remix of "Girl so Confusing," transforming a potential rivalry into a harmonious collaboration:

"Sometimes I think you might hate me..."
[59:29]

Final Reflections

Chris Melanfi concludes by emphasizing the evolution of diss tracks from niche rap battles to integral components of mainstream pop and rock music. He highlights the potential for creative conflicts to lead to collaborative outcomes, suggesting a hopeful future for resolving artistic differences.

"Maybe 50 years after Neil Young heard Leonard Skynyrd's Diss and Shook hands with them, it's still possible for kindness to prevail. That's the best chord to strike."
[57:19]

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Key Takeaways

• Historical Evolution: Diss tracks originated in early hip hop as a form of competitive expression and have since permeated various music genres.

• Cultural Impact: Musical feuds have driven significant chart successes and influenced artist relationships, shaping the landscape of contemporary music.

• Digital Transformation: Streaming platforms have amplified the reach and impact of diss tracks, enabling them to achieve mainstream chart dominance.

• Genre Cross-Pollination: The integration of diss culture into pop, rock, and alternative genres highlights the versatile nature of musical rivalry.

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Notable Quotes:

• "I'm bigger and better, forget about Deafer..." — Cool Mo Dee on LL Cool J
  [13:48]

• "Cause baby now we got bad blood..." — Gwen Stefani in "Hollaback Girl"
  [29:37]

• "I hear you like I'm young you better ever go to Cell Block 1..." — Kendrick Lamar in "Not Like Us"
  [54:02]

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Final Remarks

Chris Melanfi wraps up the episode by acknowledging the transformative journey of diss tracks, celebrating their role in both artist development and the broader musical narrative. He invites listeners to subscribe to Slate Plus for additional content and previews future episodes exploring the intricate dynamics of music history.

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Thank you for tuning into Hit Parade. Keep marching on!

Transcript

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[Chris Melanfy]

It's on prime. Welcome back to Hit Parade, a podcast of pop chart history from Slate Magaz. About the hits from coast to coast. I'm Chris Melanfy, chart analyst, pop critic and writer of Slate's why Is this Song Number One Series. On our last episode, we walked through the early history of dis or beef records. They weren't called that in the pre rock and early rock eras, but from the 1920s through the 70s, there were plenty of answer records, parodies and just plain gripes on vinyl. From from Eddie Cantor to Bob Dylan to Carly Simon to Fleetwood Mac. We're now entering the 1980s and the hip hop era, when rappers will elevate the diss to a lyrically complex art form. Though hip hop dates to the mid-70s, rap only took off as a recorded medium at the turn of the 80s, and right from the jump, rap was full of braggadocio. For example, you may recall how in the middle of 1979's seminal Rapper's Delight by the Sugar Hill Gang, rap's first official top 40 recording, a number 36 hit in early 1980, MC Big Bank Hank boasted that he's got more clothes than Muhammad Ali. When it comes to boasts on vinyl, the former Cassius Clay really gets around.

[Rapper Voice]

You see, I'm six foot one and I'm tons of fun and I guess to a D, you see I got more clothes than Muhammad Ali and I dress so vicious. Me, I got bodyguards, I got two big guards. That definitely ain't the whack, okay?

[Chris Melanfy]

But that's boasting. When it comes to beefing rap scholars date the first known rap beef to 1981 at a live performance by rapper Busy Bee at the Harlem World Club. Busy had been Caught taking potshots at other rappers rhyming skills. So right after Busy Bee's performance, Cool Mo Dee of the pioneering rap troupe Treacherous 3 took the stage and freestyled some dazzling disses against Bizzy Mo Deez, now legendary Live performance was fortunately captured on tape. Champ.

[Rapper Voice]

Everybody salute to the new mc Champ. It's like this, y' all like this, y' all like this this is like this, y' all now that bar did a bob the dang the dang dang sound pretty good but it ain't no thing I'm the super scooper party pooper member bow never make a second rap alone.

[Chris Melanfy]

Cool Modi's throwdown established the rap diss as a live medium. But it would take a few more years for the rap diss to ignite on wax. And it all started with this track.

[Rapper Voice]

Yo, emd. Yeah, what's up man? There go that girl they call Roxanne she's all stuck up why you say fat? Cause you wouldn't give a guy like.

[Chris Melanfy]

Me no rap Utfo, a quartet of rappers and breakdancers from Brooklyn, recorded Roxanne Roxanne in 1984 as a B side to their debut single. The shady tall tale about a fly girl who's all stuck up and won't respond to the men's amorous advances got more attention than the singles A side and soon DJs at R B and pop stations were spinning it. It also became a favorite with breakers.

[Rapper Voice]

I thought I had it in the palm of my hand but man oh man if I was grand I'd bang Roxanne, Roxanne, Roxanne can't you understand Roxanne, Roxanne, I wanna be your man in.

[Chris Melanfy]

March 1985, Roxanne Roxanne cracked the top 10 on Billboard's R B chart, remarkable for a rap single by a new group on the Independence Select Records label. But by then, Roxanne Roxanne had also drawn a response, an answer record from a young lady who was not impressed with Utfo.

[Roxanne Shanté]

He wears a kango and that is cute but he ain't got the money and he ain't got the loot and every time that I see him he's always a begging and all the other girls that he's always trying to leg in Every time that I see him he says.

[Chris Melanfy]

A teenager from Queens named Lolita Shantae Gooden, who fancied herself an emcee and regarded Utfo's song as an affront to women, re dubbed herself Roxanne Shantay and recorded a seven minute freestyle dissing the trifling dudes for their wack come ons. Her answer record, now widely considered the first major rap beef single, was titled Roxanne's Revenge.

[Roxanne Shanté]

You should be like me a fly MC don't never have to bite we're always right I have the freshest rhymes that I do recite and after that and you know it's true. But let me tell you something else.

[Chris Melanfy]

Not only did Roxanne's Revenge sell a quarter million copies in the New York City area alone, it also made the national charts, reaching number 22 on Billboard's R&B chart and bubbling under the Hot 100. Roxanne. Shantae's hit also kicked off what became known as the Roxanne wars as a slew of budd rappers plus UTFO themselves all jumped in with extensions of the Roxanne story. UTFO went first responding to Shantae by recruiting their own female rapper, Adelaida Martinez, AKA the Real Roxanne and recording a single also called the Real Roxanne.

[Roxanne Shanté]

You think you're touching me boy you must be crazy you got your nerve to wanna be my man they call me the.

[Chris Melanfy]

The Real Roxanne reached number 44 R&B at one point in the late winter of 85. All three singles, Utfo's original Shantae's response and the Real Roxanne were all on the R B chart simultaneously. Then over the next year, at least 30 Roxanne records were produced. Few of these follow ups charted, but some fun titles included Roxanne's Doctor by a rapper who called himself Dr. Fresh, the parents of Roxanne by Gigolo Tony and Lacey Lace, I'm Lil Roxanne by Tonga Naika, and even Roxanne's A the Untold Story by Ralph Rowley. Along the way, the beef between Utfo and Roxanne Shantae got more personal On Shantae's Bite this, she accused Utfo and the Real Roxanne of copying her style.

[Roxanne Shanté]

What should they do? Molly Mall.

[Chris Melanfy]

And On Roxanne Roxanne Part 2, Utfo likened Roxanne Shantae to an ape and a crab.

[Rapper Voice]

Here comes you talking that myth thinking that you're great I knew all the time that your parents were ape if you didn't know baby that makes you want to sit here Subanatical homes in.

[Chris Melanfy]

Your zoo in the end, the Roxanne wars were fun, garish, silly, occasionally offensive, but mostly they were a crucial proof of concept the rap diss was now a category unto itself, and diss records could be turned out at a rapid pace, even back in the day when all music was on physical discs. More importantly, this beef ignited years of legendary rap disses on wax. The Roxanne wars soon begat the Bridge Wars, a battle over the soul of hip hop itself.

[Rapper Voice]

You love to hear the story again and again of how it all got started way back when. The monument is right in your face. Sit and listen for a while to the name of the blaze.

[Chris Melanfy]

The Bridge wars were sparked by a late 1985 single by Queens rapper MC Shan and producer Marley Marle called the Bridge the that extolled their neighborhood of Queensbridge as a mecca for rap. But KRS1, leader of the Bronx troupe Boogie Down Productions, or BDP, took offense at the mere suggestion that Queens, not the Bronx, birthed rap. So BDP recorded a response record called South Bronx.

[Rapper Voice]

The South. South Bronx, the South South Bronx. Many people tell me this style is terrific. It is kind of different, but let's get specific.

[Chris Melanfy]

Which ignited a string of diss records that came to be called the Bridge Wars. Rap historians generally agree that the highlight of the beef was the 1987 BDP single the Bridge is Over, a bouncy piano based boom bap jam that would go on to be sampled by doz, other rap tracks. And by the way, as I alluded to earlier in the episode, the Bridge Is over even interpolated Billy Joel's it's still rock and roll to me.

[Rapper Voice]

What's the matter with your MC Molly Ma? Don't you know that he's out of touch? What's the matter with your DJ MC Shan on the wheels of steel Marlin Sus, you better change what comes out your sneaker. You're better off talking about your wack boomer sneaker. Cause once created hip hop, queens will only get dropped and still selling lies to me.

[Chris Melanfy]

Despite that pop friendly allusion and the song's high praise among rap connoisseurs, the Bridge Is over did not make the national charts. Billboard would not launch its Hot Rap songs chart until 1989. Boogie Down Productions would become charter artists on that ranking. Indeed, the only problem with early rap diss records was that the songs turned over so fast and were decipherable only to rap fans who followed the lyrical minutiae that they rarely crossed over with a wider audience. But that began to change toward the end of the 80s.

[Rapper Voice]

How you like me now, now, now.

[Chris Melanfy]

In 1987, cool Modi, remember him from the historic live diss of Busy Be leveled up on the charts by sparking a beef with young upstart rapper LL Cool J Mode's 1987 album how youw Like Me now, whose cover depicted a Jeep crushing LL's trademark Kangol hat, cracked the top 40 in 1988 and went platinum. The title track, in which Modi poked fun at the title of LL's album Bigger and Deafer, became cool, Modi's first to make Billboard's R&B chart, where it peaked at number 22.

[Rapper Voice]

I'm bigger and better Forget about Deafa Every time I rock the mic I left a stain in your brain that will remain stuck in the back Then.

[Chris Melanfy]

In the early 90s, after Vanilla Ice took off with his chart topping smash Ice Ice baby if there was a.

[Rapper Voice]

Problem, yo I'll solve it Check out the hook while my DJ revolves it.

[Roxanne Shanté]

Ice, Ice baby.

[Chris Melanfy]

Third Base, a troupe led by white rappers MC Search and Pete Nice, took offense at Vanilla's hokage pop friendly production, sampling of Queen and David Bowie and appropriative flow. So Third Base responded with their own satirical crossover pop jam, Pop Goes the Weasel, which was built around samples of Peter Gabriel and the who and eviscerated Vanilla ice. Perhaps ironically, third Bass's satire of sampling and pop rap became their only top 40 pop hit, peaking at number 29 in 1991. Also raging in the early 90s was an internecine war among the current and former members of gangsta rap group N.W.A. that made the early 70s disses exchanged by John Lennon and Paul McCartney look like child's play. Ice Cube's departure from N.W.A. and their label Ruthless Records over a royalty dispute and the launch of Cube's solo career drew some lyrical digs from his former bandmates, including Dr. Dre and Eazy E. This prompted Ice Cube to record the vicious diss track no Vaseline, a deep cut from his 1991 number one solo album Death Certificate. Eventually, Dr. Dre also left NWA also over money and signed to Death Row Records, which issued his multi platinum 1992 album the Chronic. This led to bad blood with Eazy E, who remained with Ruthless and continued to profit from the label at the other NWA members expense. In response, Dre took aim at Eazy on the Chronic track Dre Day, whose full title on the Chronic cd, by the way is Ahem. Fuck Wit Dre Day and everybody's celebrating Dre is nothing if not verbose.

[Rapper Voice]

Mr. Buster, where you at? Can't scrap a lick so I know you got your gap to stay on hard from getting your rolls off the hood.

[Chris Melanfy]

As menacing as it was, Dray Day turned out to be rather historic from a charts perspective. Dr. Dre and Snoop Dogg were on such a roll on the Hot 100 and R B charts following their big hit Nothing But a G Thang that the single cracked the top ten on both charts in the summer of 1993. Number eight pop number six R&B that made Dre Day the first rap diss record to make the pop top ten. And everybody celebrate. We'll be back momentarily.

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[Chris Melanfy]

By the mid-90s, rap diss records had become institutionalized, even lionized. But the beefs between rappers had grown more serious, less playful. The most notorious beef, no pun intended, was between Christopher Wallace, aka Biggie Small, aka the Notorious B.I.G.

[Rapper Voice]

Who shot you. Separate the weak from the opposite part to creep them. Brooklyn street it's on Stop all that.

[Chris Melanfy]

Bickering Beef and Tupac Shakur AKA Tupac.

[Rapper Voice]

Biggie Smalls and Junior Mafia Some mark ass tricks we keep on coming while we gunning for your jews Steady bushing while we busting at some fools. You know the rules little secret Biggie's.

[Chris Melanfy]

Who shot ya and Pac's hit em up often make lists of the greatest rap disses ever, even though they fueled what turned out to be a deadly feud between the two former friends. For much more detail, I highly recommend the third season of Slate's own Slow Burn podcast on Biggie and Tupac, in which host Joel Anderson Dissects every aspect of the tragic East Coast west coast rap war, including these dis records that fanned the flames. Though other rap beefs of the late 90s and aughts were not fatal, they too reflected serious career implications. When Lauren Hill dropped her solo debut, the Miseducation of Lauryn Hill in 1998, she led off the album with the fierce Lost One, widely heard as a diss against her former bandmate from the Fugees, Wyclef Jean. Melodic, elegant, but also brutally frank, Lost Ones established Hill's independence and helped make Miseducation a classic and a blockbuster.

[Roxanne Shanté]

You going scrimmage like you the champion you might win some but you just lost one you might win some but you just lost one you might win.

[Chris Melanfy]

Some the multi year beef between Jay Z and Nas, then the two rising kings of New York rap, produced its share of dis classics. Takeover, a deep cut from Jay's 2001 chart topping album the Blueprint, prominently sampled the doors bruising 60s rock jam five one and interpolated the hook from David Bowie's fame.

[Rapper Voice]

You guys don't want it with hope?

[Chris Melanfy]

No. In response, Nas dropped Ether, a rejoinder from his 01 album Still Matters. The annihilating track became so legendary in rap dis lore, it turned the word ether into a verb in hip hop lexicon, meaning to ruthlessly humiliate an opponent.

[Rapper Voice]

And his manuscript just sounds stupid when KRS already made an album called Blueprint. First Biggie's your man, then you got the nerve to say that you better than Big dick sucker Lips. Won't you let the late great veteran live?

[Chris Melanfy]

And the top selling rapper of the Aughts, Eminem essentially built his career on disses, concocting imagined beefs with other celebrities. From 2000's the Real Slim Shady, in which Eminem poked fun at Britney Spears, Christina Aguilera and Will Smith to 2002's Without Me, wherein M name checks everyone from NSYNC and Moby to then Vice President Dick Cheney.

[Rapper Voice]

I know that you got a job, Ms. Cheney, but your husband's heart problem's complicated so the FCC won't let me be or let me be me so let me see they try to shut me down on MTV but it feels so empty without me.

[Chris Melanfy]

So through all of this beefing in the hip hop world, you might say that rap attitude was infecting the rock and pop worlds in the 90s and aughts as well. As we discussed earlier, rockers had done their share of dissing on record in the era of the Beatles and Bob Dylan. But by the 90s, rock acts noticed they could get extra attention if they were less subtle than, say, Carly Simon had been. Moreover, some of these 90s rock stars were just plain angry. On Guns N Roses Chart topping 1991 Double album use youe Illusion Lee, lead singer Axl Rose came loaded for bear after years of tangling with journalists who dissected his lyrics for racism and homophobia on the song get in the Ring, Rose literally dared those scribes by name to meet him in person for a public brawl.

[Rapper Voice]

That goes for all you punks in the press that want to start shit by printing lives instead of the things we said. That means you Andy Sesser at Hit Parader, Circus Magazine, Mick Wall at Karang, Bob Guioni Jr. Spin what you pissed off?

[Chris Melanfy]

No journalist wound up actually sparring with Axl, although Spin's Bob Guccione Jr. Claimed he would accept Rose's challenge. Axl rose had picked up the unfiltered profanity of hip hop beef without the syncopation or clever way wordplay. In 1995, however, Canadian singer Alanis Morissette scored her breakthrough with a diss record that deployed one very catchy F bomb.

[Roxanne Shanté]

There was a slap in the face how quickly I was replaced and I thinking of me when you her.

[Chris Melanfy]

You Ought to Know is rumored to be Alanis Morissette's evisceration of her former boyfriend, Full House TV star Dave Coulier. Morissette has since denied it's about him, but Coulier has said he believes it is. In any case, it's a very effective kiss off to some former lover that single handedly reinvented Morissette's career, turning her from a Canadian pop princess into a truth telling alternative rock star. Not unlike the way serving Beef brought fame to rappers from Roxanne Shantae to Cool Modi. And then there's the rock star who's made so many other famous people angry she's inspired multiple Beef records. Courtney Love Courtney tends to talk in interviews more than in the music she made with her band whole. Although at least one whole single, 1995's top top 30 modern rock hit Violet, is rumored to be a telling off of her former boyfriend, Smashing Pumpkin's frontman Billy Corgan.

[Roxanne Shanté]

You should learn how to say no.

[Chris Melanfy]

But mostly Courtney Love is what you might call a beef museum. On Dave Grohl's first Foo Fighters album after the death of his Nirvana bandmate and Love's former husband Kurt Cobain, the song I'll Stick around, a number eight modern rock hit in 1995, was decoded by Nirvana fans as a diss of Courtney, particularly the line, I've been around all the pawns you've gagged and bound. Grohl copped to this in an interview Years later in 1996, the Tori Amos track Professional Widow note that title was widely assumed to be inspired by Courtney Love. Amos has never confirmed this, but she smiles cryptically when she's asked. The quirky Widow became a surprise Transatlantic hit in 1997 number two on the US Club Play Chart and number one on the UK Pop Chart in a dance remix by house producer Armand Van Helden. Gotta be me, Gotta be me. And finally, seven years after that, Gwen Stefani, former frontwoman of 90s ska punk pop band no Doubt, dropped her 2004 pop solo debut Love Angel Music Baby. The album was doing just okay until early 2005, when Stefani picked a beefy banger as the album's third single, a diss track inspired by a snide quip from you know who. Seriously, Hollaback Girl was a clapback to Courtney.

[Roxanne Shanté]

I heard that you were talking shit and you didn't think that I would hear it. People hear you talking like that, getting everybody.

[Chris Melanfy]

The story goes that in an interview with Seventeen magazine, Courtney Love had picked a fight with Gwen Stefani, dismissing her as a, quote, cheerleader. Gwen was offended. She'd never been a cheerleader in high school, but she decided if a cheer was what Courtney wanted, she'd give her a bananas cheers. In a way, Courtney gave Gwen a gift. Hollaback Girl was the biggest hit of Stefani's career, topping the Hot 100 for four weeks and becoming the first digital song to sell a million copies. Thanks Courtney. What was also remarkable about Hollaback was that it was co written and produced by the Neptunes, the hip hop production duo of Pharrell Williams and Chad Hugo. Gwen's diss track had the syncopation and shit talk of rap crossed with a white girl cheerleader chant. The hybridization of hip hop beef with pop rock sass had reached its culmination and by then Stefani was not the only white pop act relying on hip hop producers and serving beef. Cry Me a River, Justin Timberlake's first top 10 hit as a solo solo artist after the hiatus of boy band NSync, was produced by Timbaland, the hip hop Svengali behind hits by Missy Elliott and Aaliyah. It bumped like a rap jam and soared like a pop ballad, peaking at number three on the Hot 100 in early 2003. Cry me a River was also a very thinly veiled kiss off to Justin Timberlake's former girlfriend Britney Spears. The music video even starred a blonde Spears lookalike. My friend and colleague Tom Bryan, Stereogum's Number Ones columnist, once called Timberlake's hit a quote, wildly petty pop masterpiece, which is spot on. The accusations Timberlake slings at Spears in the song have not aged well, but it's still regarded as one of Timbaland's best productions. It may not even have been the last time Justin scored a hit off of his post Britney self righteousness. His 2007 number one hit what Goes Around Comes around was widely assumed to also be about Spears, even though Timberlake has insisted otherwise. What Goes around was also also produced by Timbaland, who just a few weeks later in 2007 scored a number one hit under his own name as the lead singer and rapper of Give It To Me, featuring guest vocals by Timberlake and Canadian singer Nelly Furtado, another frequent Timbaland collaborator. Give It To Me was a beef track against Tim's former collaborator Scott Storch, who'd demanded co writing credit for Timberlake's hit Cry Me A River. In the lyrics of Give It To Me, Timbaland dissed Storch as just the piano man. By the end of the aughts, nobody back added an eye if a pop or R B singer wanted to sling haterade in a song about a star the way a rapper might. In 2009, Mariah Carey even scored a hit openly dissing an actual rapper, Eminem, who had been rapping shady things about Carrie for years. Mariah's response, the hit Obsessed reached number seven in September of 09. But arguably the musician from the aughts who got the most mileage out of a sick burn was not a rapper or an R B star. At the time, she wasn't even classified as a pop star. I affectionately refer to her as the Beef Queen from the world of country music wielding the guitar that kills faithless boyfriends. Ladies and gentlemen, I give you a teenager named Taylor Allison Swift.

[Roxanne Shanté]

As far as I'm concerned, you're just another picture to burn.

[Chris Melanfy]

From her very first album, the self titled Taylor Swift, in 2006, the budding singer songwriter was shading the boys who'd humiliated her picture to burn. Her debut album's last single, a number three country hit in 2008, was about a real life high school classmate who'd broken Taylor's heart. But by 2008, Swift's boyfriends had gotten much higher profile. Joe Jonas, lead singer for the boy band the Jonas Brothers, was the inspiration for numerous heartbreak lyrics on Swift's sophomore album Fearless, including the hit Forever and All Always. Swift was still ruing Jonas on her third LP Speak now in 2010, but that album's most devastating diss was Dear John, her takedown of paramore John Mayer, who was much older than Swift but not wiser.

[Roxanne Shanté]

Dear John, I see it all now that you're gone don't you think I was too young to be messed with? The girl in the dress cried the.

[Chris Melanfy]

Whole then as Taylor was evolving from country music to pop, her relationship with actor Jake Gyllenhaal inspired not one but two Hot 100 number ones, including her 2012 smash We Are Never Ever Getting Back Together, in which she called her former beau quote exhausting and made fun of his love of indie rock.

[Roxanne Shanté]

We called it off again last night but o this time I'm telling you, I'm telling you we are never ever ever getting back together.

[Chris Melanfy]

And her acclaimed All Too well, a 2012 song that belatedly went to number one in 2021 after Swift Swift re recorded it as part of her Taylor's version project and expanded it with more sensational lyrics about.

[Roxanne Shanté]

The casually cruel boyfriends and it smells like me, you can't get rid of it cause you remember it all too well.

[Chris Melanfy]

In 2014, Swift drew inspiration for her first pure pop album, 1989, from her short lived romance with Harry Styles, then still in the boy band One Direction. She gave the album's spiciest song about a boyfriend who can't keep his eyes from wandering. The knowing title style I should just.

[Roxanne Shanté]

Tell you to leave Because I know exactly where it leads But I watch us go round and round each time you got that dream look in your.

[Chris Melanfy]

Eyes I could go on and on and on. We literally don't have time to go through all of Swift's ex boyfriend and diss records. And by the way, that's right up through the present day. Her most recent album as of this recording, 2024's the Tortured Poets Department, is filled with songs allegedly about the 1975 singer Matty Healy and actor Joe Alwyn. The fact that most of these songs were both critically acclaimed and big chart hits showed how Swift was reinventing the the diss track for a post rap pop era, especially for female singer songwriters, Taylor's whole career runs on beef. All that said, Taylor Swift has beefed about people and subjects besides her ex boyfriends. Like for example, this 2015 smash, which was about a feud Swift had with fellow pop star Katy Perry about some backup dancers Perry allegedly stole from Swift's tour. It's a long story.

[Roxanne Shanté]

So take a look what you've done Cause baby now we got bad blood.

[Chris Melanfy]

Swift called the song, appropriately enough, Bad Blood. It thumped with hip hop swagger. And so for the remix, Swift brought in as a guest an actual rapper.

[Rapper Voice]

Hey I can't take it back look where I'm at We was OG like these TLC remember that my TLC was quite O D ID my facts now POV of you and me similar Iraq I don't hate you but I hate you Critique overrate you these beats of a dark cart Use bass lines to replace you Take time and erase you.

[Chris Melanfy]

His name Kendrick Lamar now there's a guy who knows a thing or two about beef we'll be right back.

[Roxanne Shanté]

Cause baby now we got bad blood. You know it used to be mad love so take a look what you've.

[Rapper Voice]

Done.

[WhatsApp Voice]

On WhatsApp no one can see or hear your personal messages. Whether it's a voice call message or sending a password to WhatsApp, it's all just this. So whether you're sharing the streaming password in the family chat or trading those late night voice messages that could basically become a podcast, your personal messages stay between you, your friends and your family. No one else, not even us. WhatsApp message privately with everyone.

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[Rapper Voice]

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[Greenlight Voice]

Been on hold to make a doctor's appointment for 23 minutes now. The automated voice has told me 47 times that my call is very important to them. Hmm, I'm starting to think that they don't think my call is important at all.

[Rapper Voice]

With Amazon One Medical 24. 7 Virtual Care, you'll get help fast without having to remain on the line to make an appointment. Amazon One Medical Healthcare just got less.

[Chris Melanfy]

Painful from the moment Kendrick Lamar emerged. He wanted to be the best rapper alive, and he earned respect from fellow rappers early on. For example, on a remix of his hit Don't Kill My vibe from his 2012 LP Good Kid Mad City Jay Z provided a guest verse as a kind of Kendrick endorsement.

[Rapper Voice]

House. Rumors on the ground getting too loud, please turn them.

[Chris Melanfy]

But Lamar was not above biting the hand that feeds. His competitive instinct meant that he would talk even about rappers he considered friends and peers. He was maintaining rap culture's tradition of using disses to establish his skills and stature. A few months after Good Kid Mad City debuted at an impressive number two on the big Billboard 200 album chart, Lamar was invited to make a guest appearance on this track by Big Sean 2013's control.

[Rapper Voice]

I heard the barbershops being great debates.

[Chris Melanfy]

All the time Kendrick turned Control into a dis extravaganza. On his verse, he took aim at many of the leading rappers rocking the mic. From veterans like Jay Z, Nas and Eminem to current hit makers like J. Cole, Pusha T, ASAP Rocky and yes, Toronto rap deity Drake Bills.

[Rapper Voice]

ASAP Rocky, Drake, Big Sean, J Electron Tyler McMiller I Got Love for you all but I'm trying to murder you Trying to make sure your core fans never heard of you they don't want to hear not one more now no verb from you what is competition I'm trying to raise the bar high Control.

[Chris Melanfy]

Barely scraped the charts, peaking quietly at number 43 on the R B Hip Hop chart. But in rap circles, it made a lot of noise. In the weeks following the song's release, several rappers, whether or not they were mentioned on Control, released songs responding to Lamar's verse. Among the bars that were thought to be aimed at Lamar was this line from Drake's 2013 hit the Language, a number 13 R B hip hop hit.

[Rapper Voice]

I don't know why they been lying but your is not that inspiring bank account statement Just look like I'm ready for early retirement Kenny that's talking just to get a reaction going platinum I looked at my wrist and it's already platinum.

[Chris Melanfy]

Control has since been called the seed of a modern day Roxanne Wars, a battle starting single that led to years of disses and and beef. It is also the origin story of what happened between Lamar and Drake a decade later. That decade was illustrious for both men. Drake issued a string of multi platinum albums and singles and Kendrick was hailed not only as the rapper's rapper, but as hip hop's conscience. He delivered a string of acclaimed Grammy winning chart topping albums like 2015's To Pimp a Butterfly which produced his Black Lives Matter anthem all right and 2017's damn which not only generated humble Kendrick's first hot 100 number one as a lead artist. He had previously only hit number one as a guest on Taylor Swift Bad Blood. The album even won Lamar a Pulitzer Prize. Drake and Lamar coexisted relatively peacefully until late 2023 when Drake dropped his album for all the Dogs. As was typical for Drake, it produced an instant Number one single Single First Person Shooter, which featured a guest vocal from rapper J. Cole on the song's key verse. In addition to yet another Muhammad Ali reference, Cole mused aloud about who the current best rapper alive was himself, Aubrey, the actual first name of Drake, or K Dot, Kendrick's nickname Positive Be Love.

[Rapper Voice]

When they argued Our heart as mc Is it K D? Is it Aubrey or me? We the Big Three. Like we started a league, but right now I feel like Muhammad Ali.

[Chris Melanfy]

J. Cole's boast was actually fairly convivial, like hey guys, we're all the best. But Kendrick wasn't having it. Six months later, Lamar dropped a guest verse on like that, a track from rapper Future and producer Metro Boomin. Like that wasn't even supposed to be the single from Future and Metro's new album, but thanks to Kendrick's verse, it detonated on impact. It's just Big Me in case you missed it, that was Lamar saying, forget about any so called quote Big Three. It's just Big Me. Unquote. Now, as provocative as this was, this beef could have stayed in the world of Rap Die Hards. After all, most Rap Beef records throughout chart history were regarded as too parochial, foul mouthed or indecipherable to the general public to scale the Hot 100, much less hit number one. Classic disses from Roxanne's revenge to takeover and Ether to Control, stood no chance of crowning the pop chart. But like that arrived in a changed charts world. Thanks to the inclusion of streaming data from Spotify, Apple Music and other digital service providers, the Hot 100 is now much more finely tuned to songs with heavy consumption by a devoted audience. And Rap Die Hards are devoted consumers of rap beef. Two months before like that dropped, Houston rapper Megan the Stallion had scored a surprise chart topper with her vicious Beef record against friend turned rival Nicki Minaj, a slab of haterade that she called Kiss.

[Rapper Voice]

Don't be mad at Megan Mad at Megan's Law. I don't really know what the problem is, but I guarantee y' all want me to start.

[Chris Melanfy]

When Hiss debuted at number one in February 2024, it became the first pure rap diss record to top the Hot 100. Not counting the aforementioned Timbaland pop track give it to me from 2007. This was not only a major achievement for Megan the Stallion, it signaled that streaming had changed the game. Rap beef was now eligible to dominate the charts. The more incendiary, the better. So back to Future Metro, Boomin and Kendricks like that. When it arrived just weeks after Megan's hit, it also debuted at number one, this time with the year's highest streaming total, and it stayed at number one for three weeks. The chart's evolution had elevated this beef beyond anything that Roxanne, Shantae and utfo, Tupac and Biggie, even Jay Z and Nas ever could have envisioned.

[Rapper Voice]

Yeah yeah, get up with me sneak this the first person shooter I hope they came with three switches I crash out like grab this many male if I had had to got two T's with me I'm snatching chains and burning.

[Chris Melanfy]

Tattoos so K Dot had fired his shot, which also meant that a lyrical battle between Lamar and Drake was all but inevitable. If you were paying attention to popular music last year, you probably know where the story went from there. Drake and Kendrick entered a war of words on wax. Not all of their diss records were chart toppers. Drake asserted his rap primacy over Kendrick on Push Ups, which reached number 17. Lamar returned fire with the bilious Drake Hating Euphoria, which climbed to number three. Drake's Family Matters hit number seven and Lamar's Meet the Grams number 12. The accusations got ever more combustible with each diss. And then in early May 2024 four Kendrick deployed the knockout Blow, a fiendishly catchy single called Not Like Us, a title that asserted Drake's outsider status in the hip hop tradition. What made the track undeniable was its combination of head spinning lyrics and a juicy hook. Produced by west coast hitmaker DJ Mustard, the track bounced like pop music, but featured some of the most blazing bars Lamar had ever recorded, which incidentally, leveled some pretty provocative accusations at Drake.

[Rapper Voice]

I hear you like I'm young you better ever go to Cell Block 1 to any that talk to them and they in love just make sure you hide your little sister from them Songs.

[Chris Melanfy]

Accusing another artist of being both a colonizer in hip hop culture and a pedophile don't normally make for mass appeal pop music, But Not Like Us was an instant smash. In mid May, Not Like Us debuted at number one on the Hot 100 and began as an epic chart run. It would go on to spend more than a year on the big chart, 53 weeks total, most of them in the top 20. It returned to the number one spot two more times in mid July 2024 after Lamar dropped the playful Not Like Us music video. And the following February, right after the song took a victory lap in two televised palaces of mainstream American culture. The Grammy goes to Ah, Kendrick Lamar. On February 2, 2025, on the 67th annual Grammy Awards, Not Like Us won five Grammys, including both record and Song of the Year. This was already unprecedented. Very few rap songs, period, let alone rap diss songs, had ever won a major Grammy. And then one week after that, Kendrick Lamar was the halftime performer at the 2025 Super bowl, an invitation from the NFL that was fueled by Not Like Us. In the weeks before the big game, the press speculated about whether Lamar would even perform the song at all. It was now the subject of a defamation lawsuit from Drake against his and Lamar's recording company, Universal Music. But Lamar wasn't going to pass up the opportunity to perform the biggest Diss record of all time to the biggest television audience in history. Everything that happened to Not Like Us changed the game for rap music, for hip hop culture, and in the history of the diss record, 40 years after Roxanne Shantae's seminal diss, he came up.

[Roxanne Shanté]

To me with some crabbish rap. But let me tell you something, don't you know it was wax? So when he came up to me, I told him to stab that Kendrick.

[Chris Melanfy]

Lamar showed how far rap beef had come. Sometimes a whole country can share In a cathartic purge in the 2020s, Diss Records are now part of the regular pop diet, from artists like Miley Cyrus, who dressed down an ex lover Carly Simon style on her 2023 number number one smash Flowers to Ariana Grande, whose 2024 chart topper yes and clapped back at her haters in the media a la Bob Dylan or Billy Joel to Cardi B, whose 2025 top 10 hit Outside expresses her desire for freedom from a bad relationship and bad career juju, Lauryn Hill style and sometimes Diss records don't even have to result in beef. In the summer of 2024, when British electro pop star Charli XCX released her acclaimed album Brat. Buried in the middle of the album was an apparent Diss track called Girl, so confusing in it, Charlie called out another female pop star, one who kind of looked like her with similar curly hair, someone she'd seemingly fallen out with. It felt like the launch of a potentially epic social media battle, or at least a shady subtweet like me.

[Roxanne Shanté]

Sometimes I think you might hate me. Sometimes I think I might hate you. Maybe you just want to be me. You always say let's go out.

[Chris Melanfy]

Within weeks, fans correctly guessed that Charlie's target on the song was New Zealand pop star Lorde. And then something heartwarming happened. Charlie invited Lorde to record a remix of Girl so Confusing alongside her her. On her new verse, Lorde confessed her own insecurities to echo Charlie's. The resulting remix made the top three on Billboard's dance chart, giving both Charlie and Lord one of their biggest club hits. More important, it showed a new way a beef could go. The Drake Lawsuit against Kendrick Lamar song that's one way to Go. We'll see how that turns out. Biggie versus Tupac. That's the saddest way a diss can go. It's one thing to say, as hip hop fans often do keep it on wax. It's another to actually resolve your differences together on wax. Maybe 50 years after Neil Young heard Leonard Skynyrd's Diss and Shook hands with them, it's still possible for kindness to prevail. That's the best chord to strike.

[Roxanne Shanté]

A When I was 10, someone said that and it's just self defense until your.

[Chris Melanfy]

I hope you enjoyed this episode of Hit Parade. Our show was written, edited and narrated by Chris Melanfy. That's me. My producer is Kevin Bendis. Kevin also produced the latest installment of our monthly Hit Parade the Bridge shows, which are available exclusively to Slate plus members. In our latest Bridge episode, I welcome back author and hip hop scholar Dan Charnus to dissect what makes a beef last, both in rap lore and on the charts. To sign up for Slate plus and hear not only the Bridge but all our shows the day they drop, visit slate.com hit parade plus our supervising producer is Joel Meyer, and the executive producer of Slate Podcasts is Mia Lobel. Check out their roster of [e-mail] podcasts. You can subscribe to Hit Parade wherever you get your podcasts, in addition to finding it in the Slate Culture feed. If you're subscribing on Apple Podcasts, please rate and review us while you're there. It helps other listeners find the show. Thanks for listening and Mornings can be.

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[Chris Melanfy]

I look forward to leading the hit parade back your way. Until then, keep on marching on the One. I'm Chris Melanfi.

[Rapper Voice]

I.