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- [00:00]
A
You're listening ad free on Amazon Music. Hey, everybody. This is Chris Melanfy, host of Hit Parade, Slate's podcast of pop chart history. Welcome to the Bridge. In popular music, the bridge is a transition in the middle of a song. It's the section that contrasts with the verse and the chorus and gets you from point A to point B. We call these mini episodes of Hit Parade the Bridge because they serve the same function. It's also our little homage to James Brown, who, on his 1970 smash Get Up, I Feel Like Being a Sex Machine, utters what is probably the most famous reference to the bridge of a song ever. He literally takes you to the bridge. Take him to the bridge. I'm thrilled to be joined this month by Steve Lichtai, who is the executive producer of Slate Podcasts and my producer for the most recent episode of Hit Parade, about Miley Cyrus and the history of the music video. Hi, Steve.
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B
Hello, Chris.
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A
Thank you so much for being here. We're doing this episode in Slate's D.C. studios. I split my time between D.C. and New York, and this is a D.C. month. And also this was a good month to have you as my co host because, like I said, you actually edited the most recent episode of Hit Parade.
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B
I did. I don't do it very often, but I love to do it when I get the chance. And this episode was fascinating for me because there were so many songs I had never heard in my life.
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A
Such as? I'm curious.
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B
Every Miley Cyrus song.
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A
Okay, fair.
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B
Except for Party in the usa, which I didn't even know that she sang.
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A
It.
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B
You know, But I knew all the 80s. I knew Jessie's Girl and Sledgehammer and Aha. And, you know, all that stuff was very familiar to me. But I have to say, the thing that I was so pleased with about doing this episode is how much this newfound respect I have for Miley Cyrus.
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A
She's kind of great. Yeah.
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B
Like, those songs are.
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A
Many of them are excellent. I love See youe Again, Party in the usa I like. I really like. If it didn't come through in the episode. Listeners, you know, this is always a question, especially after the Bon Jovi episode where I revealed my distaste for Bon Jovi. I actually really like Wrecking Ball. I think it's a pretty terrific song. In Like a Wrecking Ball.
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B
It's a great song. And this is a little bit of inside baseball on the editing process. It's also incredibly satisfying as an audio producer to hit the posts of those songs. So when you're trying to find the spot in the song that you're gonna bring up into the clear in the episode. Two things about that. One is because I didn't know the songs, I had to listen to the whole song to find that spot. Whereas with Jessie's Girl or Sledgehammer or any of the songs I was familiar with, I knew exactly where I was gonna bring the music up. It's like, oh, right here. This is the chorus. This is the best part. But those Miley Cyrus songs, Hilary Duff, those other songs, I had to listen through to them to pick those spots. And the thing about those songs, which is really interesting to me, is there's kind of multiple places that you can bring them into the clear.
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A
That's an interesting.
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B
Still have a satisfying moment. So it was really nice to go through those tunes and figure out where I felt was the best spot to bring them into the clearance. And it's really one of the bigger parts of producing the show, actually, is finding that beautiful moment to bring up that sort of as an exclamation on what you're saying is also satisfying for the audience to have that you get that moment to kind of crank it up a little bit and then also when to take it away.
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A
Right. And sometimes I'm prescriptive where I say, I need you to say this. You know, cut this particular part of the song because there's a lyric here or something that you know, or a little effect that I need you to hear. But otherwise, I'm pretty much giving song titles and leaving it to the producer to figure out what sounds best. And when I get that first edit back, I must say I have these moments of pleasure and delight just listening, like, oh, God, that's so amazing. You even did a thing in the pilot of Red Red Wine. And I didn't write it this way, where I talked about a couple of songs. And you actually, I liked this. You cut me off mid sentence to play little, you know, snatches of hits to remind people, this is what Culture Club sounds like, or this is what Eddie Grant sounds like. And I love the effect. When it came back to me, I was like, oh, that's ingenious. I'm so glad he did that.
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B
I think you're gonna preview this later. Your next episode. I have a feeling it's the episode that I wish that I got to produce the tease. I've heard about it, so I'll be curious to hear what the actual episode's gonna be.
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A
Well, we're gonna leave the tease until the end of the episode. I believe we have a listener question. By the way, you can always write us@hitparadelate.com and sometimes we actually get an audio question which is ideal for these monthly Bridge episodes. So I one of those audio questions right now. Hey, Chris, this is Kevin from New York. A combined question from two of your recent episodes. To what degree do you think music videos aided the mainstreaming of hair metal? I have distinct memories of paying more attention to We're Not Gonna Take it. And Here I go again. After their videos gained in popularity, by the way, a full episode on Tony Kattan would be embraced by this devoted listener. Wow, a Tawny Kitane episode, the Mind Reels. I would have to think about her influence on music and the history of the video. Eye Candy. That is interesting. Okay, before I get too far down the rabbit hole of that little reverie, your actual question is excellent. I 100% agree with the implication of the question, which is that mtv, yes, absolutely, went a long way toward mainstreaming metal and. And fueling hair metal. One way I like to point this out whenever I'm doing an episode is I try to make it almost a little data driven. If you can do a before and after comparison of what changed to increase or improve the chart performance of a genre or an artist, you really need only look at the before and after sales from just before MTV launched to a few years afterward. So for example, the difference between youn Shook Me all night long by AC DC, right, that's a hit in 1980. It peaks at number 35, so barely scrapes the top 40. Whereas six years later, you Give Love a Bad Name by Bon Jovi hits number one. The only thing that's changed in those six years is the rise in value of a double entendre in a pile of hair. It's clearly the visual that has changed and sort of codified hair metal. What it means, you're absolutely right to bring up we're not going to take it. I mean that those two videos. We're not going to take it. And I Want To Rock absolutely made Twisted Sister. Arguably, it's what made their album Stay Hungry a double platinum success. Or to touch on another genre. I mean, let's talk about something else I talked about in a previous episode of Hit Parade. Hip hop. The late 80s rise of rap on top 40 radio after years in the pop wilderness can basically be attributed directly to mtv. I mean, consider Tone Loke's video for Wild Thing, which had the benefit of being released in 1980, the same year as Yo, MTV Raps. You know, the year that that show debuted on MTV, that song peaks at number two on the Hot 100. Whereas a song like Rapper's Delight. Again, I'm going back to 1980. Same year as that ACDC song, Rapper's Delight by the Sugar Hill Gang. And, you know, growing up in New York City, I remember on the streets, literally what a huge, huge record that was, but it couldn't get past number 36 in 1980. What you hear is not a test I'm rapid to the beat and me the groove and my friends are gonna try to move your feet See, I am wonder Mike and I like to say hello to the black, to the white, the red and the brown. So MTV, absolutely. Over the course of the 80s, as it becomes entrenched and helps fuel the music video. Right. It's a positive, vicious cycle. It makes these genres bigger. It makes these little micro movements bigger so that hip hop becomes a bigger deal and hair metal becomes a bigger deal. Anyway, Kevin, that was an excellent question. Thank you so much for that. I will take the Tawny Kitain idea under advisement. Steve, what are we going to do next? I think next we're going to bring in our trivia contestant.
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B
Yes, that's right. And as always, our trivia contestants are also Slate plus members. In fact, it's a request. If you want to be a trivia contestant, you must also be a Slate plus member. And for this episode, our Slate plus member is joining us right here in the DC Studio, and his name is Jesse Rifkin.
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C
Hey, everyone. Great to be here.
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A
Thank you so much for making the trip into Slate's D.C. studios. So you've been living here in D.C. a little while?
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C
Yeah, yeah, about three years. I'm originally from Connecticut and I've lived here since 2015.
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A
Great. And what do you do?
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C
Just like you, I'm a writer about culture, but the film industry instead of music. I write about the movies for Box.
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A
Office magazine as we do every month. I'm gonna ask one question about last month's episode of Hit Parade, and then I will be asking two more trivia questions, which are sort of a sneak preview of this month, the June episode of Hit Parade. Are you ready, Jesse?
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C
Sure am.
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A
In the last Hit Parade, I talked about Miley Cyrus, who broke on the charts three thanks to a combination of Disney Channel fame and YouTube titillation. But she scored her first top ten hit while still performing on TV as Hannah Montana. What was that first MILEY Cyrus top 10 hit? A ready set Don't Go. B See youe Again. C the Climb or D Party in the usa.
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C
I don't think it would have been party in the USA because that was. That was summer 09. I remember that. And I think she really started to become big around 07 or 08, I think. I think it was See you Again. You can just ask her best friend.
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A
Leslie, and that is correct. The correct answer is B. You puzzled it out. See you again. See you again. The last time I freaked out. I just kept looking down. That's just a stuttering. It first appeared on a crazy crossover album that bore the title Hannah Montana 2, Meet Miley Cyrus and See youe Again peaked at number 10 on the Hot 100 in May of 2008. All right, that was great. One down, two to go. Here's question two. Which member of the Beatles in 1980 heard the song Rock Lobster by the B52s and was inspired to go back into the studio and record a new album? A John Lennon with Double Fantasy, B Paul McCartney with McCartney 2. C George Harrison with Somewhere in England, or D Ringo Starr with Stop and Smell the Roses.
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C
Well, Chris, I think the year 1980 is the main clue there because that was the year John Lennon was unfortunately taken from us. So I'm going to go with John Lennon.
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A
The correct answer is indeed a John Lennon. Ocean in the Ocean. John had been on a recording hiatus for five years, living as a house husband and raising his son Sean. But Rock Lobster, which reminded him of his wife Yoko Ono's music spurred him to begin recording his comeback album with Yoko. Excellent. You are two for two. All right, this is awesome. We've got one last question and let's see how you do on this one. Question 3 what debut album by an alternative rock band was named the best album of 1983 by Rolling Stone magazine, scoring an upset victory over such chart topping heavyweights as Michael Jackson's third Thriller and the Police's Synchronicity? A the Replacement's Hootenanny, B the Violent Femmes. Violent Femmes. C New Order, Power, Corruption and Lies or D. Rem Murmur.
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C
Hmm, this one I really have no idea. But in your first two questions, the answers were B and A, so I'm gonna say it's either C or D, so I'll go with C. I'm sorry.
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A
You answered New Order, Power, Corruption and Lies, but the correct answer was D. Rem's Murmur.
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C
I knew it was C or D.
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A
Yeah, no, that was pretty good logic. I admire that. Among the other albums that REM's murmur top in the Rolling Stone critics poll was U2's War. And in the Village Voices Paz and Jopp poll of all critics for 1983, Murmur came in second for the year behind only Thriller. All right, well, Jesse, now's the opportunity for you to turn the tables on me and ask me a trivia question. So I am taking a deep breath and bracing myself. You go ahead.
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C
Your question is also related to the last podcast episode Subject of Music videos what is the most viewed music video on YouTube that was made in the 20th century? Was it A Smells Like Teen Spirit by Nirvana, B November Rain by guns n roses, 3. Take On Me by Aha. Or 4? Or D Thriller by Michael Jackson?
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A
I'm going to guess my natural inclination is to go toward Thriller, which has been very popular in the 21st century. It's one of the best selling digital songs of all time. Like digital downloads have only existed since the early 2000s, and yet it ranks among the hundred best selling songs of all time. On the other hand, the Thriller video is very long, so I wonder whether Thriller would have that many.
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C
The highest grossing movie is Titanic, right?
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A
Which is three hours long. That's a fair point. To me, it's a toss up between Aha and Michael Jackson. I'm gonna go with what the heck, Michael Jackson. Thriller.
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C
Thriller is an October themed music video. But you're gonna have to go one month later for November Rain by Guns N Roses.
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A
And it's hard to hold a candle in the golden well, that was an excellent question. I enjoyed that. Even getting it wrong. I enjoyed it because it was informative to me. In all of my research for last month's episode, I did not do a specific cut of 20th century videos and their YouTube views. So thank you for that, Jesse. It has been such a pleasure having you here. I really appreciate it. Thank you especially for coming in.
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C
Thank you, Chris. Should we shake hands even though it's a podcast?
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A
We'll shake hands even though it's a podcast. You bested me in the trivia and you did it fair and square, so thank you so much.
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C
Thank you.
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B
Wow. November Rain. I would have never have guessed that. That was an amazing trivia question, Chris. Shall we preview next month's Hit Parade.
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A
Before we sign off? I should probably. You had mentioned when we were talking earlier that you kind of wish that rather than editing last month's episode, you were editing this month's episode because it's a little closer to your wheelhouse.
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B
Yeah, I think so. Because I think it's REM's involved, REM is involved, and somebody else.
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A
And the B52s. I can say this out loud because you heard those two questions that I just asked Jesse, and this is going to be without giving too, too much away, this episode will be the first Hit Parade episode that really focuses on what you might call alternative rock. We have talked about alternative rock in previous episodes. For example, one episode I still get a lot of feedback on the Great War against the Single. I did a whole chunk of that episode talking about early grunge and how many of those grunge bands of the early 90s didn't release singles and how that fueled their album sales. But this is an episode that's going to go back to the 80s and talk about some of the birth of what later became called alternative rock. Back when we didn't call it alternative rock. It went by many different names back then, from post punk to new wave and what that meant and how these bands started emerging on the charts, which was a fascinating thing for me in my teenage years.
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B
Totally my teenage years as well. I'm really looking forward to that.
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A
Well, I hope it's going to be nostalgic for you. I know it'll be nostalgic for me. And I do hope that our Hit Parade listeners will enjoy the next episode of Hit Parade, which will be out the final Friday of June. So keep an ear out for that. In the meantime, I want to thank everybody for joining us for this episode of Hit Parade, the Bridge. I want to thank our Live Instruments Studio contestant Jesse Rifkin, who totally stumped me with his trivia question and did a great job with my trivia questions. Again, I want to remind people to Sign up for Slate plus membership. Visit Slate Me HitParade to enter yourself as a contestant. For now, this is Chris Melanfi signing.
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B
Off, and I'm Steve Lichtai, executive producer of Slate Podcasts.
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A
Keep on Marching on the One Sam.