Hit Parade: The Bridge – "Genre v. Generation, ’80s to ’10s"

Slate Podcasts | Host: Chris Molanphy | Guest: Ned Raggett | Date: Nov 15, 2019

Episode Overview

This edition of Hit Parade: The Bridge dives into the complexities behind musical categorization and generational influence, particularly focusing on the late '70s and '80s UK post-punk/goth wave bands (The Cure, New Order, Depeche Mode, The Smiths, et al.) and how their influence rippled through American pop culture—eventually shaping chart history and musical nostalgia. Host Chris Molanphy welcomes music writer Ned Raggett for a passionate, personal, and insightful discussion about the genres, legacies, and evolving perceptions of these influential alternative bands, concluding with a lively trivia segment looking ahead to the next decade.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Personal Journeys: How ’80s Alternative Broke in the US

• Ned Raggett’s fandom: Came to the music “late”—only after these bands began having radio/MTV hits in the US around 1988-89. His initial exposure was through airplay of songs like The Cure’s “Just Like Heaven” and Love and Rockets.
  • Quote: “I was too young or just too unaware at the time, and I started backtracking from there.” (03:33)
• Both Ned and Chris retrace their personal journeys as American fans discovering UK post-punk acts piecemeal—a decade after British fans.

2. Cultural Divide: UK vs. US Mainstream Recognition

• In the UK, ’80s bands like The Cure could be casually referenced in TV comedies as early as 1984 (e.g., The Young Ones), signaling their prominence.
• In contrast, such bands were virtually unknown in the U.S. mainstream at the time.
  • Quote: “Whereas you could have mentioned The Cure on a television program in 1984 in America, and it would have just prompted shrugs.” (05:32)

3. Genre Labeling: "Goth", Post-Punk, or Something Else? (06:05–08:30)

• The hosts wrestle with what to call this loosely associated group of bands—each distinct in sound and geography (e.g., synth pioneers Depeche Mode vs. anti-synth The Smiths).
• Ned: The term “goth” is limiting; the grouping often reflects generational markers more than strict musical similarity.
• Chris draws a parallel to the “British Invasion” of the ‘60s: bands from all over England categorized together due to timing rather than close musical relation.

4. Who Got Credit—and Who Got Omitted? (07:51–11:20)

• Chris reflects on episode coverage choices: Did he overemphasize some acts (like Morrissey/The Smiths) and underplay others (like Siouxsie and the Banshees)?
• Ned highlights Morrissey's longstanding controversies and notes many fans have “canceled” him for decades, though his musical legacy is unavoidable.
  • Quote: “You could say he’s always been canceled by some, but it’s sort of reached a tipping point.” (08:57)
• Discussion turns to Siouxsie Sioux’s resistance to the goth label and the irony of bands disowning the genres critics and fans assign to them.
  • Memorable Moment: Ned recounts interviewing Siouxsie and concluding: “I wanted to make sure I did this entire interview without once mentioning the word goth.” (09:54) Siouxsie’s grateful response: a deep, relieved “Thank you.”

5. Legacy: Influence on New Generations and Institutions (11:44–14:53)

• The Cure and Depeche Mode are "great survivors," regularly recognized by new fans and cultural gatekeepers (e.g., Rock and Roll Hall of Fame nominations).
• Ned speculates Depeche Mode will soon be inducted.
• These bands’ aesthetics and themes resonate with newer acts—like My Chemical Romance, who explicitly acknowledge their debt to the '80s goth/alt wave.
  • Quote: “All you have to do is look at mid-2000s MCR … it’s like, yeah, Robert Smith, come on.” (13:23)
• Generational shift: What sounded “fake” to rock purists—synthesizers, dark lyrics—is now legit pop history.
  • Sharp Ned quote: “There are less people now who basically look at someone like Depeche and go, like, synthesizers. That’s not real music. … Bless your heart.” (14:20)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “It’s more a generational marking point … But there was never an easy catch-all term for them all.” — Ned Raggett (07:27)
• “It’s almost the audience that applies a term like goth … The minute somebody comes up with a catch-all term, the artists are trying to scurry away from it almost immediately.” — Chris Molanphy (10:40)
• “Suzy essentially is a fantastic art pop / art rock performer.” — Ned Raggett (11:20)
• “I think for a lot of people, the preferred member of the band at this point is easily Johnny Marr … a great way to enjoy the old Smiths songs and not have to think about the guy who originally sang them.” — Ned Raggett (09:39)
• “Younger generations … find their own locus points. My Chemical Romance … you had a whole generation of people just losing their minds over that one.” — Ned Raggett (12:48)
• “I think there are less people now who look at someone like Depeche and go, like, synthesizers. That’s not real music.” — Ned Raggett (14:20)

TRIVIA SEGMENT

(14:53–24:12)

Contestant: Amanda (from D.C.)

Key Moments:

• Amanda describes how Hit Parade kept her “alert and awake” during her commute on a congressional campaign (15:19).

• Amanda aces three trivia questions:

  1. Q: First Cure song to reach US Top 40?
     A: "Just Like Heaven" (17:52)
  2. Q: 2010s artist with the most Billboard #1s (including features)?
     A: Rihanna, with 9 (19:04)
     • Ned insightfully connects Rihanna's "goth" aesthetics to the episode theme.
       • Quote: “Rihanna … is very much a good goth artist of the 2010s in many ways.” (19:30)
  3. Q: “Old Town Road” broke the top spot record, but which 2010s song previously tied the record?
     A: "Despacito" (21:01)

• Amanda then successfully stumps Chris Molanphy:

  • Q: Which Drake song spent the most weeks at #1?
    A: “God’s Plan” (11 weeks)—Chris guesses “One Dance” (22:12)

Looking Ahead / Outro Themes

• Next episode preview: Chris teases a coming bird’s-eye episode on the 2010s decade in pop (23:31).
• Ned Raggett’s plugs:
  • Twitter: @NedRaggett
  • Patreon: patreon.com/nedraggett
  • Podcast: "By the Bywater"—a Tolkien-themed podcast on Megaphonic FM (24:12)

Timestamps of Important Segments

• 00:12–01:49 – Introduction, Ned’s background
• 02:22–03:42 – Ned's personal discovery of post-punk/goth/alt bands in America
• 04:18–05:32 – UK v. US differences in mainstreaming
• 05:32–07:51 – Genre labeling and grouping difficulties
• 08:46–11:20 – What to include/omit; controversies and resistance to being labeled
• 11:44–14:53 – Band legacies, Hall of Fame speculation, new generations influenced
• 14:53–24:12 – Trivia segment with Amanda (three questions and a stump-the-host reversal)
• 24:12–25:18 – Ned’s plugs, wrap up

Episode Takeaway

Through animated stories, music-critic expertise, and chart trivia, Chris Molanphy and Ned Raggett illustrate why the grouping of ‘80s UK post-punk/goth acts remains as much about generational experience as musical style. Labels are slippery, artists push back, but legacies endure—shaping everything from Hall of Fame ballots to teenage My Chemical Romance fans. The conversation and included trivia bridge not just genres and generations, but also the enduring fuzziness and fascination of pop history.