The Bridge: Ladies of the Canyon and the Rhythm Nation

Summary

Podcast Summary: Hit Parade | The Bridge: Ladies of the Canyon and the Rhythm Nation

Date: September 13, 2019
Host: Chris Molanphy
Guest/Co-Host: Asha Saluja
Featured Listener: Steve from Fort Lauderdale

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Overview

This episode of "Hit Parade: The Bridge" bridges listeners from the previous full-length episode on Woodstock into a look ahead towards the 30th anniversary of Janet Jackson’s Rhythm Nation 1814. Host Chris Molanphy is joined by new producer—and first-time co-host—Asha Saluja for a conversation blending personal musical reminiscences, historical nuggets about Joni Mitchell and Woodstock, and a robust trivia round focusing on chart trivia and impactful albums. The episode also teases upcoming content on Janet Jackson, further exploring the phenomenon of albums that generate multiple chart-topping singles.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Music Memories and Family Histories

[01:26–04:23]

• Asha’s "galaxy brain" moment listening to a "Hit Parade" Madonna episode: personal connections through family and Miami's rave scene.
  • “My mom was the musical educator… But my dad only liked one artist and that was Madonna.” (Asha, 02:17)
• Chris and Asha discuss how music ties together generational and personal experiences.

2. Spotlight on Woodstock: Festival Hierarchies and Missed Opportunities

[04:23–09:03]

• Modern festivals vs. Woodstock’s impact on artist careers.
• The pay hierarchy at Woodstock and how artists like Santana, relatively unknown at the time, broke through after the festival.
  • “Santana were the big discovery… they were paid less than $1,000. Carlos Santana earned a few hundred dollars… but he also earned himself a lifetime of renown by wowing the crowd…” (Chris, 05:30)
• Joni Mitchell’s notable absence from Woodstock due to her manager’s (David Geffen's) advice—missing a potential breakout moment to appear on the Dick Cavett Show instead.
  • “She was told not to go because she had a date to be on the Dick Cavett Show… But… performers who did go to Woodstock… made it back [in time].” (Chris, 07:38)
• Mitchell’s song "Woodstock" and her connection to Crosby, Stills, Nash, and Young.

3. The Real-Time Legacy of Woodstock

[09:03–10:38]

• Reflections on the utopian aura of Woodstock, even from those who weren’t present, as well as its peaceful scale.
  • “That place up there was the second biggest city in New York… and had no violence.” (Dick Cavett/Chris, 09:50)
• The gathering was “an Aquarian experience”—peaceful and improbably harmonious.

4. Listener Mail: Generational Impact of Music

[10:38–12:37]

• A letter from John Wren (65, Bay Area) recalling the impact of Credence Clearwater Revival (CCR) and Jefferson Airplane—music as a trigger for powerful nostalgia.
  • “Credence was definitely the soundtrack of my high school years, and your show brought all of that flooding back.” (Listener John Wren, 10:38)

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Hit Parade Trivia Segment

[12:37–20:13]

Guest Contestant: Steve from Fort Lauderdale (Self-described 80s pop enthusiast)

Question 1:

Which Woodstock performer did NOT appear in the film or soundtrack?

• Correct Answer: Janis Joplin
  • “Unhappy with her rather inebriated performance… Joplin asked to be removed…” (Chris, 14:58)

Question 2:

Which album had seven top ten hits AND all in the top five?

• Correct Answer: Janet Jackson – Rhythm Nation 1814
  • “Janet’s seven top 10 hits reached the highest position of any set of hits. They were all top five.” (Chris, 16:27)

Question 3:

Which hit from Janet Jackson’s Rhythm Nation was NOT a No. 1, but still a top 10?

• Correct Answer: “Rhythm Nation” (peaked at #2)
  • “Its follow up, the third single, Escapade, took Janet back to number one.” (Chris, 17:37)

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Tables Turned: Steve’s Question for Chris

[18:44–20:13]

• Which Grammy did Janet Jackson win in 1990 for Rhythm Nation 1814?
  • Correct Answer: Best Music Video, Long Form
  • Fun fact: Janet’s Producer of the Year nomination was the first ever for a woman, and none has won since.
  • “To this day, no woman has ever won a Grammy for Producer of the Year, which is a travesty.” (Chris, 20:13)

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Quotable Moments

• “You took me from something I thought of as an artist my dad liked to the electronica I imprinted on as a teenager.” (Asha, 03:38)
• “The pay hierarchy at Woodstock… If you want to Google it, folks, you can even find out how much everybody at Woodstock was paid.” (Chris, 05:16)
• “The only tragedy of this [Joni Mitchell’s absence] is that… on the stage with Joni Mitchell [for Dick Cavett] are several performers who did go to Woodstock and they made it back…” (Chris, 07:38)
• “I do not remember Woodstock. Not because I was there and, you know, sampled the brown acid, but because I was not born yet…” (Chris, 03:50)
• “Janet was nominated in all [those Grammy] categories… first time ever a woman was nominated as Producer of the Year.” (Steve, 19:57)

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Looking Ahead: Rhythm Nation Full Episode Preview

[21:19–22:40]

• Chris teases the next full episode, a deep dive into Janet Jackson’s Rhythm Nation 1814:
  • 30th anniversary
  • Chart legacy (seven top-five hits—unmatched)
  • Influence on pop, R&B, and hip hop, inspiring artists like Beyoncé and TLC.
• “It has a chart legacy as well… by some measures, as I indicated in one of those trivia questions, it’s the biggest hit generating album of all time.” (Chris, 21:28)

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Conclusion & Notable Announcements

[22:43–23:24]

• Chris invites NYC listeners to The Met for a Woodstock talk and film screening.
• Final sign-offs with gratitude and enthusiasm for upcoming episodes.

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Asha’s Madonna electronica story: 01:46–03:50
• Woodstock artist "put on the map" discussion: 04:23–06:06
• Joni Mitchell’s absence from Woodstock: 06:06–09:03
• Mailbag—Listener letter from John Wren: 10:38–12:37
• Trivia round intro: 12:37
• Janet Jackson / Rhythm Nation trivia: 15:39–18:19
• Grammy question & milestone: 18:44–20:13
• Preview: Rhythm Nation episode: 21:19–22:40

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Tone & Style

Conversational, delightfully nerdy, full of music trivia, and rich with personal and historical anecdotes—reflecting Chris Molanphy’s signature blend of deep chart knowledge and accessible storytelling.

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Who Should Listen?

• Chart nerds and pop culture history buffs
• Fans of Woodstock and 1960s–1980s music lore
• Janet Jackson enthusiasts
• Anyone interested in the mechanics behind “smash hits”

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Summary prepared for curious music fans and Hit Parade listeners wanting a detailed, engaging snapshot of this episode’s highlights, music history context, and must-know trivia.

Transcript

[A]

You're listening ad free on Amazon Music.

[B]

Welcome back. Hey everybody, this is Chris Melanfi, host of Hit Parade, Slate's podcast of pop chart history. Welcome to the Bridge. That's welcome back by John Sebastian, a number one hit from 1976. As we told you in last month's Hit Parade, Sebastian, the former lead singer of the Lovin Spoonful, wasn't even supposed to play the Woodstock Festival in 1969. For Sebastian, Woodstock was an accidental bridge between his career with the Lovin Spoonful and his career as a solo artist which eventually produced this chart topping hit. And these mini episodes bridge our full length monthly episodes give us a chance to catch up with listeners and enjoy some Hit Parade trivia. This month I'm pleased to introduce as my co host, my new producer for these mini episodes, Asha Soludja. This is her first time behind the mic on Hit Parade the Bridge. So I Asha, welcome to the Bridge.

[A]

Thanks so much, Chris. It's an honor to be here doing the Bridge with you.

[B]

Well, it's an honor to have you. So you have been producing this show for us since last month. August was your first Bridge episode, but I think you've been listening to the show for a while.

[A]

That is true. I'm a huge fan and in fact I have a favorite episode that I want to tell you about.

[B]

Oh, fantastic.

[A]

The first episode that I had a total galaxy brain experience listening to was the Madonna episode, the Veronica Electronica edition, because it bridged, pun intended, together, two parts of my personal music history in a way that was really unexpected for me growing up, my mom was the musical educator of the house. She had really good and broad taste and she taught me a lot of what I know. But my dad only liked one artist and that was Madonna.

[B]

Wow, he's a Madonna super fan.

[A]

Exactly. He moved to the US in the 80s and his brain sort of just imprinted on her and he didn't like any other music. So obviously I had a lot of curiosity about her growing up and eventually once I started listening to music, I came to really respect her as like a pop star and an iconic. And when I saw that there was a Madonna episode of Hit Parade, I was like, oh cool, I'm going to learn something about the 80s and the time that my dad moved here to the US but you blew my mind because instead we talked about Madonna in the 90s and 90s electronica. So I'm from Miami, Florida and I totally dabbled in the rave culture that was happening there. I went to Ultra Music Festival, a Few times in high school.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[A]

And the artists that you mentioned in that episode, like the Prodigy, the Chemical Brothers, and Moby, those artists were far past their prime, but they were still headlining the festivals that I went to while I was in high school, which, as you pointed out, Madonna was in direct dialogue with that scene. And that just really blew my mind because you took me from something that I thought of as like an artist my dad liked to the electronica that I imprinted on as a teenager. And that was so cool.

[B]

Of course, the topic of our most recent full length hit parade, if I may segue, is in the past for both you and me. I mean, the Woodstock Festival predates my birth. I am certainly a middle aged man, but I am not that old. And I do not remember Woodstock. Not because I was there and, you know, sampled the brown acid, but because I was not born yet when Woodstock happened. So the Woodstock episode, researching this episode was a lot of fun work for me, but there were pieces of it that I already knew. There were parts of it that I had to get educated on.

[A]

Yeah, I thought the framing of where each artist was before and after Woodstock was really important and also really interesting because when we think about festivals now, it's so rare for a festival to put an artist on the map. It happens more the other way around, right?

[B]

Well, yeah. I mean, think about that poster that comes out every year when they announced the Coachella lineup. And everybody's looking at, you know, not only who are the headliners, right? Whether it's a Beyonce or a Kanye west or pick your favorite rock band, a team Impala, let's say, let it happen, let it have fun. But also where the other bands all fall in the, you know, hierarchy of bands. And there was absolutely a hierarchy of bands at Woodstock, as I point out in the episode. You can even. If you want to Google it, folks, you can even find out how much everybody at Woodstock was paid. I allude to it briefly in the episode, but everything from what, you know, new acts like Sha Na Na were paid. Versus, you know, what a headliner like the who or Blood, Sweat and Tears were paid. You made me so very happy, you know, and new people like Santana, who I, you know, left at number one for the very end of the episode, you know, Santana were the big discovery of the festival, and they were paid less than $1,000. Carlos Santana earned a few hundred dollars for the gig, but he also earned himself a lifetime of renown by wowing the crowd at the festival. And he picked the best possible moment to release his first album.

[A]

So an artist that Woodstock maybe could have put on the map but didn't quite, is a fave of mine. Joni Mitchell.

[B]

Oh, sure.

[A]

And I love that anecdote from the episode about how she didn't go because of her manager recommending that she not.

[B]

Yeah, well. And I didn't even go into all the detail I could have because I kind of shoehorned Joni Mitchell, who's a favorite of mine, too, into the discussion of Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young because of her connection to those guys. She was dating Graham Nash at the time she wrote the song Woodstock that wound up on the first Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young album. We are starving. But the irony of Woodstock, as I pointed out in the episode, is that Joni Mitchell did not go to Woodstock. And, you know, if you want to go a little further down the rabbit hole, I find this interesting. Specifically the reason she was told not to go to Woodstock that weekend in August 1969 by her manager. And purportedly the person who told her not to go was David Geffen. So not just any manager, but like, kind of the uber manager of, you know, rock and roll at the turn of the 60s and 70s. She was told not to go because she had a date to be on the Dick Cavett Show. And so, once again, however, the taping of the Dick Cavett show didn't happen until, I believe, the Monday after the Woodstock Festival. Basically, word had gotten around that the Woodstock Festival was so clogged with traffic that weekend, they were afraid that if Joni Mitchell went to upstate New York, she wouldn't make it back. And the only tragedy of this is that if you watch the footage of this Dick Cavett interview In August of 1969, if you just tuned in, I'm Dick Cavett, and we're sitting there on the stage with Joni Mitchell are several performers who did go to Woodstock, and they made it back to New York City in time to tape Dick Cavity.

[C]

We have two. These are the Jefferson Airplane, should you be so foolish as to have just joined us, And Joni Mitchell. And we have two people who just happen to be passing through the studio looking for a payphone that works in New York. And they are Steven Stills and David Crosby of Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young.

[B]

So, yes, the traffic was terrible and, you know, everything was a mess. And Bethel, New York, that weekend. But they did make it back in time for Dick Cavett. So it was really a missed opportunity for Joni Mitchell. It was fairly early in her career. It's not A guarantee that she would have made it onto the stage that night. But if she had, that could have been a real breakthrough moment for her, because by summer of 69, she's only got a couple of albums in her catalog thus far, and she really hasn't had that big breakout hit songs like Big Yellow Taxi or Help Me, those are coming in the 70s. There are songs by her like Both Sides now, which had been a hit for Judy Coll in 1968. But Joanie, as an artist, had really not had her breakthrough. So she really is kind of the missed opportunity of Woodstock. She. She very well could have had a breakthrough at Woodstock.

[A]

That said, she did a really good job with having not gone. That song that you wrote, Woodstock, is very convincing. It's chilling and super beautiful.

[B]

We are stuck.

[A]

And I felt a little betrayed to learn that she hadn't been and just sort of got the details from her boyfriend. But to go back to that Dick Cavett appearance, based on the performers who showed up on TV and talked about their experience at Woodstock, it seems like everyone was aware, even in the moment, how sort of shining and golden and rare the experience they just had was.

[B]

Did you consider that, as a city man, San Jose?

[C]

How do you mean?

[B]

Well, I mean, for instance, like, about two nights ago, that place up there was the second biggest city in New York.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And had no violence. Yeah. And I think many of the happy memories of Woodstock are about just how improbable it was. It was a truly utopian experience. Or to use the subtitle, they gave the concert. It was an Aquarian experience.

[C]

What do you suppose? Hendrix is asleep.

[D]

Asleep.

[A]

So before we leave the topic of Woodstock, I thought that this might be a good time to do some listener mail, because this one letter that a fan wrote back in February in response to the Credence Clearwater Revival show feels really applicable to the Woodstock episode as well. And so I just wanted to share it.

[E]

Dear Chris, I haven't ever written a fan letter to a podcaster, but there's a first time for everything. I'm 65, grew up in the Bay Area. Credence was definitely the soundtrack of my high school years, and your show brought all of that flooding back. The Airplane track also brought back a particular party and a particular girl. I remember having big arguments with a neighbor kid about whether Credence or the who were a better band. In my defense, he was an actual musician, and at the time, only Happy Jack was getting airplay. Didn't compare to Proud Mary. Anyway, thanks for all your deep dives. Sincerely, John Wren Proud Slate plus member.

[B]

Fantastic. Thanks, John. I am enormously flattered by that letter and by the direct reminiscences of somebody who was there in 1969. I'm glad somebody caught the Easter egg that I threw into the Credence Clearwater Revival episode back in February of a song from Surrealistic Pillow, the smash album by the Jefferson Airplane in the summer of 67. Particularly the song that we played in that Credence Clearwater Revival episode, an Airplane song called she has Funny Cars, is just this wonderful example of the kind of psychedelic rock that was starting to come out of the Bay Area and the west coast in general. I knew that it would be meaningful to a certain segment of listeners. I'm actually a pretty big fan of that Jefferson Airplane album myself. So thank you so much, John, and thank you for your reminiscences and your compliments for the show. I'm so glad that you're enjoying it. Now comes the time in Hit Parade, the Bridge, where we do some trivia and joining us on the line is Steve from Fort Lauderdale. Steve, are you there?

[D]

I am.

[B]

Fantastic. Thanks so much for joining us. I understand from Asha that you are an 80s pop expert, is that right?

[D]

Oh, expert is such a detailed word. It's definitely my go to decade. It was the first half of the 80s were high school, the second half were college. That's the home base for me.

[B]

I totally understand. I am myself a person who came of age musically in the 80s. Also, if I may ask, are you a Slate plus member?

[D]

I am indeed a Slate plus member. In fact, I'm pretty sure I was a member before you started doing Hit Parade.

[B]

Fantastic. Well, as I like to remind folks, at this point in the trivia, while this Bridge episode is available to all Hit Parade subscribers, we only open our trivia rounds to Slate plus members. So if you are a member and would like to be a trivia contestant, visit slate.com hitparadesignup that's slate.com hitparadesignUp so Steve, I know you know how this works, but briefly we're going to ask you three trivia questions. The first is going to be a callback to our most recent full length episode of Hit Parade. And the next two are going to be a preview of the next Hit Parade episode. And then at the end, this is always the fun part, you get to turn the tables on me and ask me a trivia question. So are you ready for some trivia?

[D]

I am indeed.

[B]

All right, Fantastic. Here we go. Question one Last month, we told you about Woodstock performers who did not have the best time at the festival. Some of them even asked to be taken out of the Woodstock film and soundtrack. Which of these performers who were on stage in August 1969 did not appear in either the Woodstock film or soundtrack? A, Janis Joplin, B the who C Crosby, Stills, Nash, and Young, or D Sha Na Na?

[D]

Well, I think I'm gonna guess A, just because of all those artists, Janis Joplin seems like the most, you know, iconically Woodstock. And I'm guessing that there'd be some irony in the question.

[B]

You guessed absolutely correct. The correct answer is A, Janis Jopl. Unhappy with her rather inebriated performance in the wee hours of Sunday morning, Joplin asked to be removed from the Woodstock film and soundtrack lp, while Neil Young, by the way, also refused to be filmed. His bandmates Crosby, Stills, and Nash did appear in the film, and. And several songs of CSNY's did make the album. All right, you're one for one. Rock on. So are you ready for question two?

[D]

Sure.

[B]

All right, here we go. Question two. All of these albums generated a record seven top ten hits on Billboard's Hot 100. But which one actually did better than the rest by producing seven top five hits? A, Michael Jackson, Thriller. B Bruce Springsteen, born in the USA c Janet Jackson, Rhythm Nation, 1814, or d Drake Scorpion.

[D]

Wow. I don't know anything about Drake, so I'm not gonna touch that one of those three. I'm just gonna guess Michael Jackson, because when all else fails, the answer is usually thr.

[B]

I'm sorry. The correct answer was C, his sister, Janet Jackson with Rhythm Nation. Janet's brother Michael did set the record in 1984 when Thriller produced its seventh top 10 hit. That feat has been matched by Bruce, Janet, and Drake. But Janet's seven top 10 hits reached the highest position of any set of hits. They were all top five hits. All right, you're one for two. We've got one more question that, like question two is a preview of next month's episode. Are you ready for question three?

[D]

Sure.

[B]

All right, here we go. Question three. Of the seven top tens on Janet Jackson's Rhythm Nation, four of them were number one hits, including three of the following. Which of these was not a hot 100 number one hit? A miss you much? B Rhythm Nation, C Escapade, or D Love will never do without you?

[D]

I'm gonna guess Rhythm Nation because that's probably the most challenging of those four songs.

[B]

And you would be correct. The right answer is B Rhythm, The second single from the album after the number one, Miss yous Much? The album's title track, peaked at number two. Its follow up, the third single, Escapade, took Janet back to number one. And by the way, the only number one I didn't offer as a choice in this question was the album's sixth single, which was Black Cat. Fantastic. Two for three. That is awesome. Steve, I hope you are feeling rather proud of your trivia prowess.

[D]

I am, I am. And the Rhythm Nation track is my favorite off that album.

[B]

It's really an excellent song and it's even got a small Woodstock connection because a Woodstock performer, Sly and the Family Stone, were sampled on Rhythm Nation. Their song thank you For Letting Me Be Myself Again is sampled on that song. Huh? Yeah. Go back and listen to it. It's fun. It's kind of buried in the mix, but you can definitely, once you hear it, you can't unhear it. It's an interesting tidbit. Now, I understand that you have a trivia question for me, Steve, Is that right?

[D]

I do.

[B]

All right, lay it on me.

[D]

Okay. Despite selling more copies than any other album that year, Rhythm Nation, 1814 was not nominated in any major category at the Grammys in 1990. However, it did earn Janet four nominations in minor categories, one of which she won. Which of the following Grammys did Janet Jackson win in 1990? And your choices are A, Producer of the Year, non Classical, B Best Instrumental Arrangement Accompanying Vocalist, C Best Music Video Long form, or D, Best Female R and B Vocal Performance?

[B]

Huh. That's a really good question. All right, I am going to guess that it's either A or D. I don't know why, but I have a good feeling based on what I know of Rhythm Nation, that it got one of those. And I think. I think Janet may have been a co producer on Rhythm Nation. So I'm gonna guess a Producer of the Year, non Classical.

[D]

You have guessed incorrectly, Darn it. The correct answer is C, Best Music Video, Long Form.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[D]

Janet was nominated in all of the categories mentioned, but that's the only award she actually won. However, she broke a record with her nomination for Producer of the Year. It was the first time ever that a woman was nominated in that category. To this day, no woman has ever won a Grammy for Producer of the.

[B]

Year, which is a travesty. But the one small consolation for me is that I did remember there was something unusual about that nomination that year, and I just forgot that she didn't actually win it. So I at least had an inkling of what was going on there. But I did get it wrong. You stumped me. So congratulations on your fantastic trivia record here today, Steve, because you got two out of three of your questions right, and you stumped. So nice job. I really want to thank you for being a part of Hit Parade, the Bridge.

[D]

This was a real treat, literally. Hit Parade is my favorite podcast. I look forward to it every month.

[B]

Well, that means the world to me. Thank you so much, Steve.

[A]

That was a tough one, huh, Chris? You kind of knew the answer.

[B]

Yeah, no, I took the L on that one. And it was fair and square and good for Steve.

[A]

It sounded like he was actually really familiar with each track on Rhythm Nation. And even though he didn't know where that second half of the trivia round was gonna go, he jumped right in and kind of understood what we were talking about. So with that, I'm really excited to hear that we're gonna be talking about Janet Jackson next month. Can you tell us what we have to look forward to?

[B]

We are indeed gonna be talking about Janet because September is the 30th anniversary of the Rhythm Nation album. It came out in September 1989. Yes, folks, it's that old. And it's a legitimately great album. It's a seminal album, not just for Janet, but, you know, artists and critics cite its blend of pop, R and B, and even hip hop, hip hop, producer production styles as really innovative for its time. And so many artists, everyone from Beyonce to tlc, has cited it as a predecessor and an influence on their work. It has a chart legacy as well, which is strong and possibly underrated because by some measures, as I indicated in one of those trivia questions, it's the biggest hit generating album of all time. It scored seven top 10 hits and they were all top five hits, which. Which no other album has equaled. And there's even as we'll talk about in the full length episode, the possibility that there could have been an eighth single which would have given Janet an all time record all to herself. Just have to tune in at the end of the month and hear our full length episode to hear the story of Rhythm Nation and the story of Janet Jackson's amazing career. Well, Asha, I hope you and all of our listeners enjoy that episode which will be coming in just a couple of weeks. And I want to thank you for producing Hit Parade, the Bridge and joining me for this episode. It was great having you in front of the mic.

[A]

Thanks, Chris. It was so much fun and an absolute honor.

[B]

And by the way. Before we sign off, one last reminder. If you're listening to this bridge episode on Friday, September 13th, and you happen to be in New York City today, please join me tonight at 6:30pm at the Metropolitan Museum of Art as part of their Met Fridays series and their acclaimed exhibition Play It Instruments of Rock, which, by the way, I've seen, and it's amazing. I'll be talking about this Woodstock episode of Hit Parade that we just put out, and they're even showing a restored print of the Woodstock film, and it's all free with museum admission. So that's tonight at the Metropolitan Museum.

[A]

Of Art for Hit Parade, the Bridge. I am Asha Saludja, Operations Manager of Slate Podcasts.

[B]

And I'm Chris Melanfy. Keep on Marching on the one. Sam.