The Bridge: Wesley on Whitney

Summary

Hit Parade | The Bridge: Wesley on Whitney (March 13, 2020)

Episode Overview

In this "Bridge" mini-episode of Hit Parade, host Chris Molanphy, a pop-chart analyst and author of Slate’s “Why Is This Song No. 1?”, is joined by Pulitzer Prize-winning critic Wesley Morris (New York Times, Still Processing podcast) for an in-depth discussion about the legacy, complexity, and crossover journey of Whitney Houston. Their conversation explores themes of musical authenticity, cross-racial appeal, the pitfalls and triumphs of stardom, and how Houston navigated the intricate terrain of 1980s and 90s pop and R&B. The episode also features memorable anecdotes, candid perspectives on what it meant to "cross over" during that era, and lively commentary on Houston’s critical reception, culminating in a round of music trivia with a listener.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Whitney Houston’s Early Television Appearance and Musical Arrangement

• Wesley recalls his first encounter with Whitney on Silver Spoons:
  • He describes the impact of hearing her perform "Saving All My Love For You" live, with an arrangement distinct from the recorded version—sultrier and more reminiscent of Anita Baker than the pop-crafted album cut.
  • Quote: “She’s a Russian doll of sound. What she signifies is so many different things at the same exact moment...if she had put out that version of that song as a singer...she’s Anita Baker, she’s not Whitney Houston.” — Wesley Morris (03:59)
• Chris and Wesley reflect on memory and authenticity:
  • Both marvel at remembering cultural moments accurately.
  • "Don’t we all?" — Chris Molanphy on sometimes doubting your own memories (03:58)

2. The Meaning and Mechanics of Crossover in the 1980s and 90s

• Wesley’s personal experience as a “big chart watcher”:
  • He highlights the lack of overlap between MTV and BET—how black and white pop worlds were often siloed.
  • Quote: “They were just in completely different worlds. People who were stars to black people...the Bobby Womack of like 1984 to like 1990, was Freddie Jackson.” — Wesley Morris (06:07)
• The nature of “crossover” as fleeting vs. lasting:
  • Many black artists “crossed over” briefly, but only rare stars like Whitney, Michael Jackson, and Lionel Richie maintained sustained, integrated chart presence.
  • Chris: “If we assume that much of crossover is just visiting, to borrow your term, yet Whitney crosses over and stays, right?” (06:55)
  • They discuss how this persistent crossover status impacted perceptions within black communities.

3. The White Audience and Black Radio Dichotomy

• Analyzing Whitney’s Chart Success:
  • Wesley notes that none of Whitney’s biggest hits were in the top 10 of the Billboard 'Hot Black Singles' chart, contrasting her trajectory with that of Michael Jackson.
  • “There is nothing black radio about [‘Where Do Broken Hearts Go’] except the power and blackness of the voice singing it.” — Wesley Morris (07:33)
• Visual and sonic signifiers:
  • Discussion of "I Wanna Dance With Somebody" and the 'Whitney' album's deliberate move toward broader (whiter) pop appeal, including styling.
  • “She has sort of essentially whitened herself. I mean, it’s as white as she was ever gonna be presenting herself.” — Wesley Morris (08:45)

4. Gradual Musical Transition and Black Audience Reception

• Evolution between albums:

  • Chris points out the more gradual crossover attempt of Whitney’s debut (1985) vs. the all-in pop crossover of 'Whitney' (1987).
  • The use of specific singles (“Thinking About You,” “You Give Good Love”) as breadcrumbs to black radio even as more mainstream pop tracks gained momentum.
  • Quote: “Once they do [fully crossover] on the second album, it’s kind of off to the races.” — Chris Molanphy (08:55)

• The omnipresence of “Greatest Love of All” and its anthemic reach:

  • Wesley highlights that black listeners, in particular, had to perform songs like “Greatest Love of All” at events repeatedly to the point of fatigue.
  • “If I never hear that song again, I’ll be okay.” — Wesley Morris (09:57)

5. Whitney’s Vocal Genius and “Authenticity” Debate

• Wesley’s accolades and ambivalence:
  • He calls Whitney “the best singer ever” (11:04) but also notes the double-edged sword of her technical perfection.
  • “She could sing the blandest shit and make it sound really beautiful... There’s something about this question of authenticity...how black is Whitney?” — Wesley Morris (11:20)
  • Recalls being questioned on blackness, likening the scrutiny faced by Whitney.
• The unique delivery in deeper album cuts:
  • “Thinking About You" is praised for funk and emotional grit—one of the moments where Houston’s R&B roots are most palpable.
  • “She’ll put a little stank on a song just so you know she can do it.” — Wesley Morris (13:42)
• Reaction within black audiences:
  • “I think we might have been a little hard on our girl Whitney...part of that was just that she was so enormously successful...and it didn’t matter how much signifying she did in the songs.” — Wesley Morris (13:59)

6. Whitney’s Legacy, Hall of Fame Induction, and Posthumous Reappraisal

• Rock & Roll Hall of Fame discussion:
  • Both express bewilderment at Whitney’s delayed induction and compare her to contemporaries like Madonna and Aretha Franklin.
  • “How are you even wondering why Whitney Houston’s in the Hall?...Never mind the people who should be in the Hall, like Roberta Flack and Dionne Warwick.” — Chris Molanphy (16:30)
• On "Higher Love" (Kygo remix and original):
  • Wesley expresses ambivalence toward posthumous remixes but credits Houston’s exuberance and mastery in original live vocal performances.
  • “The greatest singing Whitney Houston ever did was live...just the way she would like get all up in a song. Man, what a genius. That’s her legacy. Just genius.” — Wesley Morris (17:22)

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Memorable Quotes & Timestamps

• “She’s a Russian doll of sound...what she signifies is so many different things at the same exact moment.”
  — Wesley Morris (03:59)

• “They were just in completely different worlds. People who were stars to black people…”
  — Wesley Morris (06:07)

• “The question with a crossover...it seemed like a crossover was a person who wasn’t gonna stay. Like a person who was just visiting.”
  — Wesley Morris (06:26)

• “She has sort of essentially whitened herself. I mean, it’s as white as she was ever gonna...be presenting herself.”
  — Wesley Morris (08:45)

• “If I never hear that song again, I’ll be okay. It was true for true of that and One Moment in Time…”
  — Wesley Morris (09:57)

• “She could sing the blandest shit and make it sound really beautiful...and not just beautiful in a generic way.”
  — Wesley Morris (11:20)

• “She’ll put a little stank on a song just so you know she can do it.”
  — Wesley Morris (13:42)

• “I think we might have been a little hard on our girl Whitney...part of that was just that she was so enormously successful and popular with white people.”
  — Wesley Morris (13:59)

• “How are you even wondering why Whitney Houston’s in the Hall?...Never mind the people who should be in the Hall, like Roberta Flack and Dionne Warwick.”
  — Chris Molanphy (16:30)

• “The greatest singing Whitney Houston ever did was live...just the way she would like get all up in a song. Man, what a genius. That’s her legacy. Just genius.”
  — Wesley Morris (17:22)

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Important Segments and Timestamps

• 00:16–02:07: Introduction of guest Wesley Morris and setup for the Whitney Houston conversation.
• 03:11–05:03: Wesley recounts discovering Houston on “Silver Spoons”; conversation about her early musical presentation and potential alternate careers/styles.
• 05:03–10:57: Explores "crossover"—its meaning, implications, and examples from the charts and MTV/BET divide. Deep dive into Whitney’s early reception and evolving sound.
• 10:57–14:47: Discussion on Houston’s technical prowess (“best singer ever”) and the relatability/“blackness” debate; explicit comparison with peers and live vs. recorded vocals.
• 14:47–17:22: Hall of Fame induction, critical reappraisal, the “Higher Love” remix, and the unique power of Houston’s live performances.
• 18:36–27:45: Music trivia segment with listener Mike, interspersed with banter among Chris, Wesley, and Mike. Trivia focuses on chart history themes and Latin crossover in pop.
• 26:44–27:22: Wesley plugs upcoming Still Processing live show, closing thoughts.

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Episode Tone & Style

• Conversational, analytical, deeply rooted in personal and cultural memory.
• Both host and guest are frank about complexities of race, industry, and fandom in pop music.
• Humor and candor infuse the discussion—particularly when recalling moments of black childhood, school assemblies, and playful ribbing of industry accolades.

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Closing Note

This episode offers a nuanced, memory-rich portrait of Whitney Houston’s career—a complicated emblem of both crossover triumph and the double binds of pop stardom. Listeners are treated to a deeply informed yet accessible dialogue, peppered with passionate advocacy, critiques of industry gatekeeping, and the kind of pop scholarship Hit Parade is known for.

Transcript

[Mike]

You're listening ad free on Amazon Music.

[Chris Melancthi]

Hello, Slate listeners, Do us a favor and help us make a better Slate by answering our survey. It'll only take a few minutes. You can find [e-mail] survey well, there's.

[Wesley Morris]

A bridge and there's a river.

[Chris Melancthi]

That I still must cross as I'm going. Hey everybody, this is Chris Melancthi, host of Hit Parade, Slate's podcast of pop chart history. Welcome to the Bridge that's Step By Step by Whitney Houston, her cover of an Annie Lennox song taken from the soundtrack to her 1996 film the Preacher's Wife. Like so many hits in Houston's career, Step By Step aimed to bridge her white and black fan bases, In this case with a pop soul song by a white singer songwriter recorded for a gospel centered film about a black Baptist church, Step by step hit number 15 on the Hot 129 on the R&B chart in 1997. And these mini episodes bridge our full length monthly episodes give us a chance to catch up with listeners and enjoy some Hit Parade trivia. This month I'm delighted to be joined by Wesley Morris, Pulitzer Prize winning critic, New York Times critic at large, and a friend and frequent guest on Slate podcasts. I first encountered Wesley at Grantland, where he hosted the podcast do youo Like Prince Movies? Now at the Times, Wesley writes about everything from music to film to cultural criticism. And he co hosts the Still Processing podcast with fellow Times writer Jenna Wertham, always a great listen. A couple of years ago, an episode Wesley and Jenna did about Whitney Houston helped inspire my own Hit Parade episode. On her work, we Wesley Morris, welcome to the Bridge.

[Wesley Morris]

Thanks for having me. This is a real pleasure. As a listener, I've learned so much from you, and the idea that Jenna and I did something that made you want to do something on this show is just. That's very cool.

[Chris Melancthi]

No, it's true. And you know, your episode appeared back in the spring of 2017 when, and I double checked this, it was when one of the two Whitney documentaries had come out. So the one by Nick Broomfield, whitney Can I Be Me? Was out. And that's what you guys were responding to. And it was right around five years after she died. And the second documentary, which didn't come out until the summer of 2018, simply titled Whitney, you know, that was still to come. But I just thought what inspired me was you guys were, you were not avoiding the controversies or the scandals, but you were focusing on the music and the career. And frankly, you had some Wonderful anecdotes in there, one of which I want to ask you about right now. Let's just put it on the table. When did you grow to appreciate Whitney Houston? And by the way, feel free to bring up silver spoons if you like.

[Wesley Morris]

Oh, I mean. Well, that was the first time I'd ever seen her. I think that was the first time I was at school when Merv Griffin was on in the afternoon. So I missed her singing home. Right. There's a moment where the father on the show, his best friend has a new girlfriend, and the new girlfriend happens to be Whitney Houston. And so at the end of the episode, they all go, or I don't know if everybody goes, but somebody goes to the club, it's obviously the boyfriend is there, and Whitney Houston sings Saving all my love for you. And listening to it now, or, you know, when we recorded that episode and we were doing the preparation for it, I was really struck a. I was relieved to know my memory of that moment was true, because sometimes I have false memories of cultural events.

[Chris Melancthi]

Don't we all?

[Wesley Morris]

Thank God I was right. She looked exactly. Exactly as I remembered her. But what I couldn't have appreciated as a. What was a 7, 6, 7, 8 was the arrangement of that song is not the recorded. It's not the album version. For you. It is. It is sultrier. She's a Russian doll of sound. Right. She's a. Like, what she signifies is so many different things at the exact same moment. If she had put out that version of that song as a singer, if she sung it that way in the recorded version and not by the way she sang it live on silver spoons.

[Chris Melancthi]

Wow.

[Wesley Morris]

I don't know. It's just a totally. I mean, she's Anita Baker. She's not Whitney Houston.

[Chris Melancthi]

Right. Which begs the question about crossover and what it means because, in essence, my focus in this episode and why I was. You know, I waited three years after your episode to do my own because I really had to think hard about this. But my focus was pinpointing when Houston crossed over and what that meant for both white and black listeners. And, I mean, and I was trying to give context about what was expected, not only of big crossover stars like a Michael Jackson, a Prince, a Lionel Richie, but what was also getting played on black radio during the 80s. Do you have a sense of what this meant, what crossover meant in the 80s and 90s, and where the other crossover figures from that time fit in?

[Wesley Morris]

I was a big chart watcher, and I can tell you that I was Free. And I also had. I watched MTV and BET and VH1. And the lack of overlap among at least BET and mtv.

[Chris Melancthi]

This is a very important point you're making. Yeah, the lack of overlap, the way they were in different worlds. Please speak on that.

[Wesley Morris]

They were just in completely different worlds. People who were stars to black people. I mean, you and I were talking before the recording about Bobby Womack. The Bobby Womack of like 1984, six to like 1990, was Freddie Jackson.

[Chris Melancthi]

Right. Mr. Slow Jam.

[Wesley Morris]

I mean, there was a lot of crossover. But the question with a crossover, and you can probably define this better than I could, but it seemed like a crossover was a person who wasn't gonna stay. Right, right. Like a person who was just visiting. And I'm thinking specific, like Freddie Jackson is a good, good, good example of that. Lavert, I think, is a really good example of, Of a crossover. Like they came once, they didn't really come back, but they were all over black radio for years.

[Chris Melancthi]

I guess this then segues into the Whitney conversation. Because if we assume that much of crossover is just visiting, to borrow your term, yet Whitney crosses over and stays, right? Michael Jackson crosses over and stays. Lionel Richie crosses over and stays. What does that mean in terms of the black audience's relationship to these artists moving forward? And what. Why does Whitney in particular get that backlash? That's some of what I was trying to pinpoint.

[Wesley Morris]

Well, none of her biggest hits were in the top 10 of Billboard's Hot black singles chart, but Michael Jackson was near the top.

[Chris Melancthi]

The year end version, you mean.

[Wesley Morris]

But Where Do Broken Hearts Go? I mean, like, there is nothing black radio about that single except the power and blackness of the boys singing it. Where do broken hearts go?

[Chris Melancthi]

Can they find their way home?

[Wesley Morris]

But it did get radio play because Whitney Houston was singing it. But it didn't fit with anything else on black radio. Like I was looking at that chart for. What was it? 88. And where do broken Hearts Go?

[Mike]

Is the.

[Wesley Morris]

Is the lamest sounding song on the chart. I mean, there's something about. In the Whitney episode that you. Did you explain. There's a number of things that are just great turns of phrases, like leaving no audience behind for how well I know. I love that. And then the idea that I want to dance with somebody is a quintessential. It is a quintessential 80s sounding thing. Right. The video is a perfect 80s video. She has sort of essentially whitened herself. I mean, it's as white as she was ever gonna like be presenting herself like as A as a like skinny dippy blonde.

[Chris Melancthi]

Right. Or blondish, right down to the hair. Yep. Yeah.

[Wesley Morris]

And I think the Whitney album was just, you know, there was nothing gospel y about that album.

[Chris Melancthi]

But then that was a distinction I wanted to make between Whitney, the 87 album, and Whitney Houston the 85 album, which is more of a gradual transition. And they're still sending some singles literally thinking about you and leading with you. Give good love. They're still sending breadcrumbs, for lack of a better term, to the black audience saying, no, no, this is for everybody. And they're not going for the jugular on pop crossover right away. But once they do on the second album, it's kind of off to the races. And that's the distinction I wanted to make is when did that happen? When did it reach some form of exit velocity where suddenly I find Greatest Love of All, for example, which is actually the last single released on Whitney Houston, the 85 album goes to number one in the middle of 86. Find that so fascinating because here's a record that was written for Muhammad Ali biopic and was originally sung by George Benson that is better loved now by a white audience than a black audience because it's as if the black audience suddenly got the memo, oh, wait a minute, maybe this is not for us. And that, that, that was what I was trying to get at.

[Wesley Morris]

Yeah. I also think that black people had to sing that song a lot more than any other race of people. I'm just going to say it. It was a. It was a school graduation song. It was a school assembly song. It was anthemic in ways that like I. If I never hear that song again, I'll be okay. It was true for true of that. And One Moment in Time. I don't know if you were subjected to singing One Moment in Time in.

[Chris Melancthi]

School, but can't say I was.

[Wesley Morris]

We had to sing that a lot. And I think that, you know, the arrangements of those songs, setting aside how Whitney had to figure out how to sing them for herself, are very appealing sing along songs in some ways because they're not arranged in a black vernacular at all. They're generic. And the thing that sort of makes them special is only Whitney Houston singing them. There's nothing musically interesting about any of those songs.

[Chris Melancthi]

Speaking of singing, you and Jenna did a great job in the episode analyzing Whitney's vocal gifts. You even call her the best singer ever.

[Wesley Morris]

I know, I think about that all the time now.

[Chris Melancthi]

Was this a double edged sword? Did this have a downside in terms of relatability. You seem to be implying that did it set a bar for her career that proved hard for anybody to live up to, including her.

[Wesley Morris]

This is a great question because I think the thing that makes her the greatest singer of all time in the rock and roll era, any. She could sing. She's a little bit like Nat King Cole. She could sing the blandest shit and make it sound really beautiful. And not just beautiful in a generic way. And this is the thing that really drives me nuts about this, about, like, how black is Whitney. And I know as a person who has been, you know, I was raised having my blackness questioned by black people. And there's something about this question of authenticity and how it has to. Course it has to sort of operated in a particular way. Right. Like, it's true that it's. It's crazy that that Where Do Broken Hearts Go? Was the song that was nominated in that category because it. Like we. If we. As we've discussed it is pretty generic. Um, but it's a testament to her vocal ability and her. And her arrangement of that song that it also just. I love trying to sing that song. Like, again, getting to the bridge and that stutter she has. Where do Broken Hearts. I just. I'm sorry, you guys, but there's that break that she has toward the end. I mean, she was just really having fun with these. These boring ass songs. And that's what kind of made her exciting. But every once in a while you get a song like Thinking about you, which is my favorite song on that first album. It is a. It is.

[Chris Melancthi]

It's.

[Wesley Morris]

It's the funkiest song on the record. And it's very fun. It's the one.

[Chris Melancthi]

It really is.

[Mike]

It's.

[Wesley Morris]

Yeah. And she's singing the R B of the moment. Right. Her register is down where everybody else's register is. And she can pick it up a little bit. It's got a yearning in it. It's got some. There's some grit and some sex. She wasn't always doing that kind of singing on. I mean, it's so emotional. That second verse is so emotional. I gotta watch you walk in the room, baby. I gotta watch you walk out. And there's like a. That she does. I mean, things like that.

[Chris Melancthi]

She'll throw in a little bit.

[Wesley Morris]

Yeah, she'll. She'll put. She'll put a little stank on a song just so you know that she can do it.

[Chris Melancthi]

Right?

[Wesley Morris]

And white people. I don't know what white people heard when they heard her say, but as A black person. I'm like, well, she is clearly communicating to us. She is clearly trying to tell us she is still in the room.

[Chris Melancthi]

Right.

[Wesley Morris]

And I. I don't know. I just feel like we were real. I mean, I think every black person who was hard on Whitney now is like, yeah, I think we might have been a little hard on our girl Whitney, but I think that part of that was just that she was so enormously successful and popular with white people. I mean, with everybody. And it didn't matter how much signifying she did in the songs. The fact of the matter is, and as you point this out, like, people were just. They just. They didn't know why a person who was selling that well was why. Why take up space in black world when, you know, in African America when. When you own the rest of the country right now?

[Chris Melancthi]

Right. So Whitney Houston is finally in the Rock and Roll hall of Fame. I've watched enough artists go through a process of rehabilitation in the critical mind. It happened to Donna Summer when she was finally inducted a few years back, by the way.

[Wesley Morris]

God bless you. One of my favorite episodes of podcasting ever done was your Donna Summer episode.

[Chris Melancthi]

Thank you. That means a lot to me. Donna is very personal for me. I grew up with her. I'm a Brooklyn boy and Italian on my mom's side. We Italians have this weird ownership of Donna that it's personal for me. But anyway, so even after all the drama, you know, is she finally respected and she's got this Higher Love cover that's all over the radio. I heard it in the drugstore just the other day. And by the way, you made a hilarious point in your episode with Jenna that on a Rolling Stone list of the greatest singers of all time, she was one spot below. Wait for it, Steve Winwood, whom she's now got a hit covering on the radio right now.

[Wesley Morris]

I mean. Oh, my God, Chris, that list.

[Chris Melancthi]

I know that list. Yeah, that was problematic. And she was still alive, by the way. It was 2010 when they compiled that list. F around.

[Wesley Morris]

She could see that list.

[Chris Melancthi]

Yeah.

[Wesley Morris]

Oh, that just kills me. Anyway, well, you know, I've been thinking a lot about this Rock and Roll hall of Fame argument, and I'm shocked that it's an argument like, me, too. What are we arguing? Like, how. How strict are you going to draw these lines?

[Chris Melancthi]

Right?

[Wesley Morris]

Like, in my understanding of the way this always worked. And you can correct me if I'm spe to turn as a voter yourself, but I always associated the Rock and Roll hall of Fame parameters as Just being in the rock era. Right.

[Chris Melancthi]

I agree.

[Wesley Morris]

Like, on what grounds do you discount Whitney Houston? If Madonna's in there, too?

[Chris Melancthi]

Well, and more to the point, if Aretha's in and Aretha was, like, a first ballot entry, right. Nobody questioned Aretha. How are you even wondering why Whitney Houston's in the hall? How is that even a question? I don't understand that. You know, never mind the people who should be in the hall, like Roberta Flack and Dionne Warwick. Hello. Her cousin. Who are not. Who have never even been on the hall.

[Wesley Morris]

Roberta Flack.

[Chris Melancthi]

That's another artist.

[Wesley Morris]

That is crazy.

[Chris Melancthi]

I know, right? And feel free to talk about the Higher Love cover if it means anything to you.

[Wesley Morris]

It doesn't. You know, it doesn't. And I heard that I'm a really big. I do not enjoy posthumous music. I mean, okay, she recorded it. It was gonna be released in Japan.

[Chris Melancthi]

Yep.

[Wesley Morris]

I mean, fine. I actually thought when I heard it, like, Whitney. Did you not think we were gonna find out about this?

[Chris Melancthi]

Like.

[Wesley Morris]

We were gonna find out someday? But I have a really good friend, Bill Addison, who is. Who is among the great Whitney Houston aficionados. There are several in my life. Astonishingly high number, more than any other artist. And I think he really sort of gave me an appreciation for. Not the Kygo version, but he found the original single or, you know, the B side. And there is just some singing at the end of that record that just cracked me. I mean, it's just the sort of thing where, like, you hear her doing it and you just laugh because nobody has more fun. And this is the other, other thing about Whitney Houston. Now, I know that we're talking about the chart, but the great. The greatest singing Whitney Houston ever did was live. All of her live singing. I mean, to go to a Whitney Houston concert and hear her rearrange these songs, see her spend eight minutes on one gospel number, just powerful and just the way she would, like, get all up in a song. Man, what a genius. That's her legacy. Just genius.

[Chris Melancthi]

And now comes the time in every Hit Parade, the bridge episode, where we do some trivia. And joining me on the line from Jersey City, New Jersey, is Mike. Mike, are you there?

[Mike]

I am, Chris.

[Chris Melancthi]

Hey. How are you?

[Mike]

I'm good. I'm doing really well.

[Chris Melancthi]

Now, my understanding is you and I have actually met before because you came to my event in September at the Metropolitan Museum of Art. Right?

[Mike]

That's right. Yeah. So you were there talking about your Woodstock episode as a tie in with the anniversary of Woodstock. And I Believe your parents were there. And I was also there with my mom, who's also a fan of the show and actually gave me this Slate plus subscription.

[Chris Melancthi]

Oh, see, that's fantastic. So we have mom to thank for the reason that you are even able to be our trivia contestant this month.

[Mike]

We do.

[Chris Melancthi]

Well, that's as good a time as any for me to remind everybody that while this Bridge episode is available to all Hit Parade subscribers, we only open our trivia rounds to Slate plus members. So if you are a member and would like to be a trivia contestant, visit slate.com hitparadesignup that's slate.com hitparadesignUp Also, Mike, I should tell you that joining us on the line for this episode of the Bridge is Wesley Morris from the New York Times. Wesley, say hi.

[Wesley Morris]

Hey, Mike. How are you?

[Mike]

Hey, Wesley. I'm good, thanks.

[Chris Melancthi]

Fantastic. So you know how this works, Mike. But just to remind everybody, I'm going to ask you three trivia questions. The first will be a callback to our most recent episode of Hit Parade, and the next two will be a preview of our forthcoming episode of Hit Parade. Are you ready for some trivia?

[Mike]

I'm ready.

[Chris Melancthi]

Excellent. Here we go. Question one. Last month, I ran down Whitney Houston's stunning chart records, including the first woman to debut at number one on the album chart with her Whitney album. Before the charts were computerized with the SoundScan system, only six albums total debuted on top before SoundScan. Which of these was not one of them? A, Stevie Wonder, Songs in the Key of Life, B Prince, Purple Rain, C Bruce Springsteen Live or D Michael Jackson Bad.

[Mike]

So I do not remember you mentioning B, Purple Rain. So I'm gonna go with B, Prince, Purple Rain.

[Chris Melancthi]

That is absolutely correct. Though it was a blockbuster, Purple Rain took four weeks to reach the top of the album chart, whereas the Stevie Wonder, Bruce Springsteen, and Michael Jackson LPs all opened on top. Excellent, Mike. That's one down. You've got two to go. Are you ready for our preview trivia?

[Mike]

I'm ready.

[Chris Melancthi]

All right, here we go. Question 2. All four of these artists performed live on the 1999 Grammy Awards. However, who among them went into the night having never scored a top 40 pop album or single and came away a superstar with number ones on both charts within three months? A, Britney Spears, B Shania Twain, C Alanis Morissette, or D Ricky Martin?

[Mike]

Oh, man.

[Chris Melancthi]

Chris.

[Wesley Morris]

Sorry. What year is this?

[Chris Melancthi]

1999.

[Wesley Morris]

99.

[Mike]

Okay, 1999. Okay. I think a couple of those artists you mentioned were already successful at that point. But I feel like 99 might have been the big year for Ricky Martin. So I'm gonna go with D, Ricky Martin.

[Chris Melancthi]

And that would be correct. The correct answer is D, Ricky Martin. Yes. All three women were already platinum sellers and or chart toppers on Grammy night 1999. Ricky Martin, a Latin pop pop star, delivered an electrifying version of the cup of life, AKA La copa de la vida. By May, he had America's top album and song spectacular. You're doing very well, Mike. Are you ready for question three?

[Mike]

I'm ready.

[Chris Melancthi]

Here we go, question three. During the Latin pop boom on the charts at the turn of the millennium, all four of these acts scored number ones on the Hot 100. But the three did so in 1999, while one had to wait several years longer. Who did not score a number one pop hit until the 2000s? A, Shakira, B Enrique iglesias, C Jennifer Lopez or D, Carlos Santana.

[Mike]

All right, so the one that I remember a little further along possibly would be. Is it a Shakira?

[Chris Melancthi]

You have done it. That is correct. Shakira did not issue her first input language album until 2001, and her first number one pop hit came in 2006 with Hips Don't Lie Like Ricky Martin. All three of the others, Iglesias, Lopez, and Santana, topped the Hot 100 in 1999. Superb. You've run the table on the trivia. Well done, Mike. Nice job.

[Wesley Morris]

That's great. Good job, Mike.

[Mike]

Thank you very much. Thanks.

[Chris Melancthi]

So I understand you have a trivia question for me, Is that right?

[Mike]

I do, yes. All right, ready?

[Chris Melancthi]

I'm ready as I'll ever be.

[Mike]

In the years 2000 to 2010, there were no Spanish language number ones on the Billboard Hot 100, but a few songs in Spanish did hit the top 40. Which artist had the most Billboard top 40 hits in Spanish in the 2000s? Is it A, pitbull, B, Daddy yankee, C Shakira, or D, Ricky Martin?

[Chris Melancthi]

This is a great question because all four of those artists had numerous hits in the top 40 during the 2000s. But the question is specifically who had them in Spanish?

[Mike]

And.

[Chris Melancthi]

The only top 40 hit I remember Shakira having in Spanish is actually my favorite single by her. The one she did with Alejandro Sands. La tortura. I love that record, But I don't think she had very many other Spanish language, so I'm going to eliminate her. And this is also the period where Pitbull is kind of a reggaeton star, but he's still singing in English. A lot. So I think it's either Pitbull or Daddy Yankee. And I'm going to go ahead and say Daddy Yankee.

[Mike]

That is correct. The answer is B. Daddy Yankee.

[Wesley Morris]

Yes.

[Mike]

He had four hits in the Billboard Top 40 by the year 2010, including 2004's Gasolina and 2007's collaboration with Fergie, Impact.

[Chris Melancthi]

Now shoo. I'm glad I puzzled that one out. Wesley, did you have any idea? Because, man, I was just using deductive logic on that one.

[Wesley Morris]

I would have guessed Daddy Yankee just because I don't.

[Chris Melancthi]

Never.

[Wesley Morris]

I mean, I don't know if I can count the number of times I've heard Pitbull do his thing in Spanish. I mean, I have, but not in a big hit.

[Chris Melancthi]

Right?

[Wesley Morris]

In a big US Hit.

[Chris Melancthi]

Certainly not an all Spanish hit.

[Wesley Morris]

Right, right, right.

[Chris Melancthi]

Well, it was a good round for all of us. Mike, you got all of your questions right? I got my question right. So I just want to say thanks so much for being a Hit Parade listener and joining us on the bridge.

[Mike]

Thanks so much for having me.

[Chris Melancthi]

So as you could hear from those last two trivia questions, our next episode of Hit Parade will be about Latin pop crossover on the American charts. You know, this year's J. Lo and Shakira halftime show at the super bowl reminded us of all of the power of Latin crossover. It was a big moment for Spanish language artists. Latin pop. However, the Latin boom of 20 years ago, the one that made Ricky Martin famous, was kind of a half step, the moment when J. Lo and Shakira became famous as well, because all of those hits were in English. By the late tens, Spanish language pop hits were starting to cross over on their own terms and not necessarily by adding English verses, although of course that helped. And we will talk about how Spanish language music has crossed over on the charts over multiple decades right up to the present day. So look out for that in our next episode of Hit Parade. My thanks to Wesley Morris for joining me for this episode of the Bridge. Wesley, the best place for folks to read or listen to you is at the New York Times, right? And are there other places folks should check you out?

[Wesley Morris]

Well, Jenna Wortham and I are gonna do a live still processing show at the Brooklyn Academy of Music, aka BAM. In a month on April 9, we're gonna probably be. We're gonna be talking about things not unrelated to this show. We're not gonna spend a lot of time with Whitney Houston or we're gonna mention like one aspect of her, but we're gonna spend a lot of time talking about the bodacious awesomeness of black women from like 1982 to about 1995 or 96 and connect that era to Lizzo and Megan, Thee Stallion and Cardi B today.

[Chris Melancthi]

That sounds amazing. I look forward to that. Thanks again, Wesley. This episode of Hit Parade, the Bridge was produced by Asha Soludja and I'm Chris Melanfy. Keep on marching on the one.

[Wesley Morris]

Sam.