These Are the Good Times, Part 2

Summary

Podcast Summary: Hit Parade | “These Are the Good Times, Part 2”

Host: Chris Molanphy (Slate Podcasts)
Release Date: January 29, 2021
Episode Theme:
This episode traces the indelible impact of Chic—particularly Nile Rodgers and Bernard Edwards—on pop music history, exploring how their sophisticated disco sound shaped decades of hits, inspired the birth of hip-hop, drove the 1980s pop explosion, and underpinned an enduring legacy that continues through both direct samples and musical influence.

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Main Themes & Purpose

Chris Molanphy analyzes how disco’s most musically gifted outfit, Chic, used talent, timing, and innovation to create songs whose DNA persists throughout pop, rock, hip-hop, and dance music. Focusing on their final chart-topping hit “Good Times,” Molanphy tracks the song’s influence through other genres and artists, highlighting Rodgers’ and Edwards’ remarkable post-disco careers as sought-after producers, collaborators, and touchstones for later innovators.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Chic’s “Good Times”: Composition and Impact

• Origins of the Groove: Inspired by Kool & the Gang’s “Hollywood Swinging,” Nile Rodgers and Bernard Edwards crafted “Good Times” (1979) with a bassline so distinctive it became canonical. [00:14–04:22]

  • “As catchy as Nile’s guitar line is, it’s not even the most iconic part of the song. That would be the percolating walking bass line that Bernard Edwards laid down in the studio.” — Chris Molanphy [03:15]
  • The lyrics purposefully echoed Great Depression optimism during the economic turmoil of 1979.

• Chart Success:

  • “Good Times” topped the charts, embodying Chic’s blend of jazz, nostalgia, and dance-floor energy. [04:22–05:10]

2. Sampling, Borrowing, and the Birth of Hip-Hop

• The Bassline Heard ‘Round the World:

  • The iconic “Good Times” bassline was directly replayed (not sampled) in Sugarhill Gang’s “Rapper’s Delight” (1979), the first rap single to break the Hot 100. [05:10–08:19]
  • “Rapper’s Delight is notorious for… stealing the bassline from ‘Good Times’… But if, as they say, great artists steal, then great art steals from the best.” — Chris Molanphy [06:24]

• Legal and Cultural Fallout:

  • Rodgers/Edwards were eventually credited—Rodgers even interpolates Sugarhill Gang rhymes into live shows.

• The Influence Spreads:

  • Queen’s “Another One Bites the Dust,” Blondie’s “Rapture,” Grandmaster Flash’s “Wheels of Steel,” and later, hip-hop and pop hits echo the same bass motif. [08:19–11:29]
  • Bernard Edwards: "That Queen record came about because that Queen bass player spent some time hanging out with us in our studio.” [08:07]

3. Disco Backlash & Shifting Fortunes

• “Disco Sucks” Movement:
  • As “Good Times” rose, Steve Dahl’s anti-disco campaign peaked (Disco Demolition Night, 1979), leading to a swift genre backlash. Rock’s “My Sharona” dethroned “Good Times” from No. 1. [11:29–13:27]
  • Chic never returned to the Top 40 as a group post-1979.

4. From Disco Exiles to Hitmaking Producers

• Diana Ross Comeback:

  • Nile Rodgers and Bernard Edwards reinvented Diana Ross with the “Diana” album (1980)—though Ross herself demanded major remixing of tracks like “Upside Down” and “I’m Coming Out.” [13:27–20:32]
  • “Diana is a legend for a reason. She was basically right.” — Chris Molanphy [16:54]
  • The album hit #2—“Upside Down” went to #1, “I’m Coming Out” became an LGBTQ anthem and top 5 hit.

• A Fallow Period and Experimentation:

  • Failed ventures: Johnny Mathis’ shelved album, Debbie Harry’s underperforming “Cuckoo,” and the poorly received “Soup for One” soundtrack. [20:32–25:13]

5. Chic’s Musical DNA Lives On: New Wave and British Pop

• Influence on UK New Wave:
  • Acts like Duran Duran and ABC modeled their sound on Chic—Duran Duran aimed for “the Sex Pistols and Chic.” [25:13–27:40]
  • MTV’s rise brought Chic-inflected acts to American pop charts, even as Chic themselves faded.

6. Nile Rodgers: A New Era as a Super-Producer

• Seismic Return with David Bowie’s “Let’s Dance” (1983):

  • Bowie recruited Nile to turn a folk sketch into a genre-defining dance-rock hit. [27:40–33:32]
  • Nile Rodgers recalling Bowie: “David, do you think I made this too funky?” Bowie: ‘Nile, darling, is there such a thing?’ — Rodgers [30:30]
  • The album "Let's Dance" and singles “China Girl” and “Modern Love” made Bowie an 80s chart juggernaut and resurrected Rodgers’ career.

• More Chart Gold:

  • Worked with INXS (“Original Sin”), Hall & Oates (“Adult Education” remix), and Duran Duran (remix of “The Reflex” — Duran’s first US #1). [33:32–39:36]
  • Produced Duran’s “Wild Boys.”

• Madonna and “Like a Virgin”:

  • Rodgers produced Madonna’s sophomore album, brought in Chic’s rhythm section, and coached her vocals for “Like a Virgin” and “Material Girl.” [39:36–46:38]
  • “The drums on ‘Like A Virgin’ are… the album’s most underrated element.” — Chris Molanphy [43:00]

• Prolific Work Across Genres:

  • Collaborations with Mick Jagger, Peter Gabriel, Thompson Twins, and Sister Sledge’s comeback—demonstrating both commercial and cultural adaptability. [46:38–51:00]

7. Bernard Edwards’ Production Renaissance

• The Power Station, Duran Duran, and Robert Palmer:

  • Produced The Power Station’s hits and Duran Duran’s Bond song “A View to a Kill”—each co-founder of Chic had hits with different Duran-connected acts. [51:00–56:32]

• 80s Pop and Rock Flourishes:

  • Edwards productions included ABC’s “When Smokey Sings” and Rod Stewart’s late-80s chart returns.

• Rodgers in the Late 80s + 90s:

  • Produced The B-52’s hits “Roam” and “Deadbeat Club.” [56:32–60:45]
  • Vaughan Brothers’ “Family Style” album—a posthumous Stevie Ray Vaughan project.

8. Later Years, Losses, and 21st-Century Revivals

• Chic Reunion & Personal Struggles:

  • Brief band comeback (“Chic-ism,” 1992), Rodgers’ sobriety after years of addiction, and the passing of Bernard Edwards (1996) and Tony Thompson (2003). [60:45–63:24]

• Sampling and Enduring Beat:

  • Chic’s hits became core samples for ‘90s chart-toppers: The Notorious B.I.G.’s “Mo Money Mo Problems” and Will Smith’s “Gettin’ Jiggy Wit It.” [63:24–64:36]
  • Nile’s guitar style revived by Daft Punk’s “Get Lucky” (2013) — his biggest global hit in decades. [64:36–68:34]

• Recognition (Belated):

  • Rodgers finally wins Grammys for “Get Lucky” (his first ever), despite a career full of indirect honors. [68:34–68:56]

9. The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Snub

• Chic: The Most-Nominated, Non-Inducted Band

  • 11 failed Rock Hall nominations, as their pop, disco, and dance legacy was undervalued by rock-leaning voters. [68:56–74:22]
  • “This makes Chic officially the most snubbed act in Rock Hall history… their 11 nominations beat the prior record.” — Chris Molanphy [70:30]
  • Rodgers’ induction as a solo figure for “musical excellence” in 2017. [74:22–75:16]
  • Nile Rodgers: “Almost everybody who’s been in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, I’ve worked with… Thank you, Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.” [74:22]

• Chic’s Ongoing Influence:

  • Their sound reborn in contemporary hits by artists like Dua Lipa (“Don’t Start Now”), Lady Gaga, and Doja Cat. [75:16–end]
  • Molanphy closes by reflecting on Chic’s timeless optimism and musical wizardry.

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On “Good Times” Bass Line:

  • “It has the same strut, the same chicken scratch chug, but its own unforgettable melody… But its not even the most iconic part of the song.” — Chris Molanphy [02:45]

• On the “Disco Sucks” Backlash:

  • “Happy Days were not here again. Chic’s two-year imperial phase was over. However, the careers of Nile Rodgers and Bernard Edwards most certainly were not.” — [13:27]

• On Bowie’s Confidence in Rodgers:

  • “David, do you think I made this too funky? …Nile, darling, is there such a thing?” — Nile Rodgers recalling David Bowie [30:31]

• On Madonna’s Work Ethic:

  • “Between Nile’s technical skill and Madonna’s legendary work ethic, they finally nailed the vocals.” — [44:11]

• On Hall of Fame Frustration:

  • “The term the Susan Lucci of the Rock hall has been applied to many artists who waited… especially Chic. But please note, perennial daytime Emmy nominee Susan Lucci did eventually win her Emmy. Chic are still not in the Rock Hall.” — [69:43]

• On Chic’s Enduring Relevance:

  • “I like to think that the world needed Chic in 2020… Even rougher than 1979, the year Nile Rodgers and Bernard Edwards kept America’s spirits aloft by insisting that these were the good times.” — [76:00]

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Notable Timestamps

• 00:14–04:22 – The creation and significance of “Good Times.”
• 05:10–08:19 – The genesis of hip hop through “Rapper’s Delight.”
• 11:29–13:27 – The “Disco Sucks” movement’s impact on Chic’s fortunes.
• 13:27–20:32 – Diana Ross collaboration and comeback.
• 27:40–33:32 – Nile Rodgers resurrects Bowie with “Let’s Dance.”
• 39:36–46:38 – Madonna’s “Like a Virgin” album, Rodgers’ approach.
• 51:00–56:32 – Bernard Edwards’ production renaissance.
• 63:24–68:34 – Chic samples power late-90s hits.
• 68:56–74:22 – Chic’s repeated Rock and Roll Hall of Fame snubs.
• 74:22–75:16 – Nile Rodgers’ speech at Hall’s “musical excellence” induction.

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Conclusion

Tone & Style:
Brisk, enthusiastic, and loaded with storytelling and music trivia, Chris Molanphy weaves interviews, anecdotes, and pop culture history into a rich tapestry illustrating how Chic’s music has become foundational to half a century of popular music—from disco through hip-hop, new wave, Britpop, EDM, and contemporary pop. The story of Rodgers, Edwards, and their collaborators is both a cautionary tale about the volatility of trends and a celebration of musical craftsmanship whose effects echo far beyond any single hit.

For Listeners New and Old:
Whether you’re a Chic devotee, a pop-culture buff, or discovering this rich legacy for the first time, this episode spotlights not just a band but an idea: that the “good times” live on in every borrowed riff, infectious groove, and hopeful melody that rules the dancefloor—and the charts—decades on.

Transcript

[Narrator/Host]

You're listening ad free on Amazon Music.

[Chris Melanfi]

Welcome back to Hit Parade, a podcast of pop chart history from Slate Magazine about the hits from coast to coast. I'm Chris Melanfi, chart analyst, pop critic and writer of Slate's why Is this Song Number One Series. On our last episode, we talked about the formation of Chic, the suave Disco era band conceived by guitarist Nile Rogers and bassist Bernard Edwards as a collective of top notch players offering sophisticated, jazzy and instrumentally complex dance music. Many of their songs even implored you to dance right in the lyrics. By 1979, Chic were not only about to score one last major hit, they were going to set a musical template for the 80s, helping to spawn both a new genre, hip hop, and the sound of pop's next wave, Chic's all time most immortal hit. The song that would inspire countless other artists and songs, was itself inspired by an early earlier hit. In a story that may be apocryphal, Nile Rogers claims he was trying to come up with a variation on his favorite Cool in the Gang song. Hollywood Swinging is a highlight of Cool and the Gang's early years as a hard funk group. It reached number one R&B number six pop in 1974, and Nile Rogers loved its relentless groove. The guitar line that he came up with while noodling in the studio was inspired by but not a copy of Hollywood Swinging, as you can hear in this YouTube recreation. It has the same strut, the same chicken scratch chug, but its own unforgettable melod. Now here's the amazing thing. As catchy as Nile's guitar line is, it's not even the most iconic part of the song. That would be the percolating walking bass line that Bernard Edwards laid down in the studio. Nile Rogers claims that Edwards came up with it on the spot. That bass line, the thump thump, thump followed by an irresistible strolling melody made the song indelible, and Rogers and Edwards paired this sturdy melodic backdrop with joyous lyrics that were wistful and knowingly ironic. Quote, the country was undergoing the worst economic downturn in 1979 that it's seen since, like the Great Depression, rogers said in a 2002 interview. So when we wrote Good Times, what did we do? We went back to the Great Depression, straight up Al Jolson. Jolson sang the stars are going to twinkle and shine this evening about a quarter to nine. So our lyrics are Happy days are here again.

[Narrator/Host]

Happy days are here again the time is right for Make Me Friends.

[Chris Melanfi]

With stellar synchronized vocals from Chic's two woman, one man team of Alpha Anderson, Lucy Martin and Fonzie Thornton, Good Times was the ultimate expression of Sheik's jazzy future nostalgia vibe. It fused Al Jolson with George Clinton, Cole Porter with Cool and the gang, the roaring twenties with the disco seventies, and by August 1979, Good Times, the lead single from Chic's acclaimed third album, Risque, had topped the Hot 100 with.

[Interviewee/Guest]

The most popular song in America this week, as determined by Billboard magazine. Here's Chic and Good Times.

[Chris Melanfi]

Of course, if that Bernard Edwards bass line sounds familiar to you, it's because you've probably heard it before, and not just on that Chic song. The Good Times bass line traveled everywhere, most famously or infamously, depending on your point of view, on this historic single.

[Narrator/Host]

Hip Hip Hop, you don't stop rock it out baby bubble to the boogity bang bang.

[Chris Melanfi]

We talked about the seminal Rapper's Delight by the Sugar Hill Gang three years ago in our Def Jams edition of Hit Parade, one of the first recorded rap singles and the first period to crack the Billboard Hot 100, where it peaked at number 36. Rapper's Delight is notorious for borrowing or biting or, let's just say it, stealing the bassline from Good Times. To be fair, it's not a sample. At the direction of Sugar Hill Records mogul Sylvia Robinson, who needed a sturdy backdrop for the rhymes of MC's wonder, Mike Wright, Big Bank, Hank Jackson and Master G O', Brien, the good Times bass hook was replayed by a studio bassist. It's either Bernard Roland or Chip Sheeran. Sources differ on who it actually was, but even re recorded, it's the same bass line. The Sugar Hill team meant to recreate Good Times. That was the point. And what's your name? Said I go by the name Lois Lane. And you can not to argue that the ends justify the means. But if, as they say, great artists steal, then great art steals from the best. Rapper's Delight established rap as a recorded medium, coined the very term hip hop and you might say made the Good Times hook even more immortal than it already was. Of course, it was still musical larceny. Within months, Good Times co writers Bernard Edwards and Nile Rogers were given writing credits and eventually royalties on the song. Rogers still to this day will throw in rhymes from Rapper's Delight into his live performances of Good Times. It's hard to really blame Sylvia Robinson's team for biting that baseline. They weren't the only ones stealing it. Barely six months after Rapper's Delight peaked on the charts. Music fans heard this from a British rock group, not a rap crew pumping from their radio.

[Narrator/Host]

Let's go.

[Chris Melanfi]

Queen's another one bites the dust topped the Hot 100 in the fall of 1980. You can think of this not as a Sugar Hill style recreation, but a rock interpolation written by Queens bassist John Deacon. Dust borrows most of the Good Times bass line, transposes a note or two and creates a new song from it. But the lineage is still hard to miss, and this similarity was no accident. In 1979, while recording their respective albums Risque and the Game, Chic met John Deacon and the members of Queen. In a later interview with British pop magazine New Musical Express, Chic's Bernard Edwards stated with no small amount of shade quote, that Queen record came about because that Queen bass player spent some time hanging out with us in our studio. Unquote. Honestly, the Chic duo could have spent a lot of time in court. That baseline reappeared in somewhat less obvious contexts on other hits such as Blondie's 1981 number one rapture, another hip hop landmark, Or on Grandmaster Flash's turntable, work out the adventures of Grandmaster Flash on the Wheels of Steel.

[Narrator/Host]

Grandmaster.

[Chris Melanfi]

Or a decade later on this rap hit by Father mc. And deeper into the 90s on this will Smith hit. However you hear it, whether from Chic themselves or some other artist biting it, Good Times will probably never disappear. And hey, thank heaven for that. Back in 1979. However, the notoriety of Good Times had nothing to do with its baseline. It was seen as the last stand in a now infamous insurrectionist culture war.

[Narrator/Host]

Not going to show us we rock and rollers will resist and we will triumph.

[Chris Melanfi]

We've talked about the Disco Sucks movement on Hit Parade multiple times. It plagued the careers of Donna Summer, the Bee Gees and countless other disco era acts. For Chic in particular, it was awkwardly timed. Good Times was rising on the charts just as Chicago DJ Steve Dahl was organizing his infamous Disco Demolition night in Comiskey park in July of 1979. And in August of 79, one week after it went to number one, Good Times was ushered out of the top spot by a song that rock fans were quite openly rooting for. According to Nile Rogers, this was not a coincidence. My Sharona by new wave rockers the Knack not only ejected chic from number one, it spent six weeks there winding up as the top song of 1979, an upset victory in that disco dominant year. Whether through bad luck or this cultural sea change, Chic never returned. Not only to number one, but to the entire Billboard top 40. Their next single, the Sterling My Forbidden Lover, with the same triple teamed vocals by Alpha Lucy and Fonzie.

[Narrator/Host]

I Don't Want no Other.

[Chris Melanfi]

Stalled at number 43, a lowly peak for the follow up to a number one hit. Happy Days were not here again. Sheik's two year imperial phase was over. However, the careers of Nile Rogers and Bernard Edwards most certainly were not over. They were bitter at the Disco Sucks campaign. To this day, Nile blames it for the change in their chart fortunes. But even as their star faded as artists, their next decade would only burnish their legend. And it all started with a new client who was a legend herself. Former Supreme Diana Ross was one of the highest profile stars of the 70s. But for such a luminary, she had a surprisingly hit or miss chart career. Songs by Diana Ross would either hit number one like Ain't no Mountain High Enough or Love Hangover, or they would miss the top 10, the top 20, even the top 40 entirely. By 1979, Diana Ross hadn't had a major hit in about three years, but Motown was looking to cement her comeback. They had just gotten her song the Boss into the top 20 and they thought maybe with the help of the hottest duo in dance music, Diana could do even better. Enter Nile and Bernard. Diana Ross was easily the highest profile client the chic organization had ever taken on, and Rogers and Edwards were anxious to get it right. The recording sessions for the the album that would be dubbed simply Diana reportedly went well. Friendly, convivial. But by 1980, when Ross heard Niall and Nards mixes for the album, that's when things got chillier. What you're hearing is the original mix of Upside Down, a future smash from the Diana album. But Ross did not care for the cavernous, busy arrangement. And in true diva fashion, she wanted her vocals both better recorded and more prominent in the mix. So over Edwards and Rogers objections, Ross went back into the studio with Motown engineer Russ Tirana and she both re recorded her vocals and restructured the entire mix. The new version of Upside down sounded like this.

[Narrator/Host]

Respectfully I say to thee I'm aware that you're cheating when no one makes me feel like you do Upside down.

[Chris Melanfi]

Here'S the thing. Diana is a legend for a reason. She was basically right. Her retaken vocals were better and the remix sounded better. More direct, less cluttered, perfect for the radio. That said, Rogers and Edwards had written her some killer songs, arguably the best of her solo career. Upside Down My old piano Love is.

[Narrator/Host]

Cold My own piano, I have a Bone.

[Chris Melanfi]

And my personal favorite, a not so secret homage to Diana's gay fans that Nile Rogers called I'm Coming Out. But even that brilliant fanfare of a song needed ori. Diana needed to inhabit the Chic songs and make them her own yet again. The second take of I'm Coming out, with new vocals and a punchier mix, was much improved. Rogers and Edwards, either out of respect or pique, probably both briefly considered taking their names off the album in favor of Russ Tyranno as the producer of records. But they thought better of it when they realized their client Diana Ross was happy. However bumpy the journey, the Diana album was the best of all possible worlds. It combined brilliant songwriting, playing and singing by the Chic organization, Bernard Edwards, Nile Rogers and Tony Thompson, plus backing vocals from Alpha Anderson, Lucy Martin and Fonzie Thornton with the sharp ears and pop instincts of the Motown hit factory. The Diana album reached number two on the Billboard album chart. Its lead single, Upside down, returned ross to number one on the Hot 100, and the follow up, I'm Coming out, reached number five, a remarkable peak for a thinly veiled, lovingly delivered LGBTQ anthem in the year 1980. So for at least one post disco project, team Chic had kept the machine rolling. Like Barry Gibb and his Brothers on Barbra Streisand's blockbuster 1980 album Guilty, Bernard Edwards and Nile Rogers had spent the first year after the Disco Sucks movement, succeeding via a smash LP fronted by a classic diva. They were grateful to have something to tote up in the win column, whereas the fourth studio album by Chic called Real People.

[Narrator/Host]

I Want to Live My.

[Chris Melanfi]

Life, underperformed on the charts, barely scraping the top 30. Its lead single, the Lucy Martin showcase Rebels Are we, topped out at a lowly number 61 on the Hot 100, although it did make the R B top 10. For all its success, the Diana album only briefly postponed the Chic production team's time in the wilderness. They entered a long fallow period where they tried a little of everything and none of it stuck.

[Narrator/Host]

I Love My Lady I Love My.

[Chris Melanfi]

Lady Edwards and Rogers offered their services in 1981 to crooner legend Johnny Mathis, but after recording an entire album, the jazz inflected I Love My Lady. The LP was shelved by Columbia Records in favor of a Mathis greatest Hits album. Tracks from the I Love My lady project would not surface until the 2000 and tens. And then there was this Misfire, The first solo album by Blondie singer Debbie Harry Called Cuckoo should in theory have been a smash. It was the follow up to a chart topping string of Blondie hits produced and co written by the chic duo whose music had inspired their hit Rapture. Harry's album was a cutting edge fusion of funk, rock and dance music. Maybe too cutting edge. Songs like Backfired, written by Rogers and Edwards, didn't connect on pop or rock radio. And Cuckoo's freaky album cover, an image by sci fi and horror artist H.R. giger depicting Debbie Harry's face with swords piercing her cheeks couldn't have helped. Cuckoo peaked at number 25 on the album chart, generated no top 40 hits and was off the charts in just three months. Say this for Rogers and Edwards, they would try anything. The producers of the 1982 film Soup for One, a sex comedy set in New York, invited the Chic duo to record the entire soundtrack and once again the material was au courant early 80s dance pop. The title track to Soup for One, performed by Sheik, was even an R B hit peaking at number 14 on the soul chart. The soundtrack also gave Rogers and Edwards a chance to work with singer songwriter Carly Simon. They wrote and produced Simon Simmons most left field avant garde single ever. The tropical funk track why? But when the raunchy, poorly reviewed movie flopped at the box Office, so did Chic's Soup for One soundtrack. It peaked peaked at number 168 on the album chart. Even when the Chic organization did score a hit, it didn't make much of an impact on the American charts. French singer Sheila of the disco group Sheila and B Devotion took the Rogers Edwards track Spacer into the top 10 across Europe, but in it barely scraped the US club chart. Perhaps Europe and the UK would in fact be the key to Sheik's comeback because through no involvement by Nile Rogers or or Bernard Edwards, a new wave of pop in Britain especially sounded a whole lot like them. Duran Duran co founders Nick Rhodes and John Taylor conceived of their post punk meets new romantic band as a hybrid hybrid of quote the Sex Pistols and Chic. John Taylor's frenetic bass lines in particular strongly echoed the work of Bernard Edwards. And Andy Taylor's lead guitar lines adapted Nile Rogers percussive disco style. Thanks to the 1981 launch of MTV in America, new wave bands like Duran Duran and the equally chic indebted ABC. Suddenly began cropping up on the American charts. In short, the sound of Sheik, if not Chic themselves, was becoming cool again without them doing anything at all. And what were they doing Nile Rogers, at least, was attempting a solo album, a Bleeding Edge funk and World Beat LP called Adventures in the Land of the Good Groove. It won a smattering of good notices, but it wasn't going to return Rogers to the charts. In his autobiography, Rogers said he felt like a failure circa 1983. His 70s successes meant he didn't need to work, but everything he'd done since the Diana album had been varieties of Flop Chic's recent string of low charting LPs and and the Johnny Mathis, Debbie Harry and Soup for One projects. To numb himself, Nile was indulging heavily in cocaine and alcohol. He needed a rescue both spiritually and professionally. Perhaps then, it makes sense that the person who rescued Nile would be an otherworldly being. A starman, if you will. David Bowie and Nile Rogers met at a New York club in 1982 and quickly took a shine to each other. Bowie recognized Rogers as a seeker and a restless spirit with immense talent. He invited Nile to write and record with him in Montreux, Switzerland. And as usual for the chameleonic Bowie, he was looking for a shakeup in his sound. He was out of contract at his former label, RCA Records, and free to do what he wanted. Oddly enough for Bowie, freedom didn't mean another avant garde project like his trilogy of late 70s Berlin albums. David told Nile in Switzerland he wanted hits. He wanted to write and record the biggest hits of his career. I'll let Nile Rogers himself tell the story from this 2016 interview live at a Google event.

[Interviewee/Guest]

So when, when we were doing the album let's Dance, he says, nah, darling, I just wrote this last night. I think this could be a hit. Goes something like this. And I went, to me, this sounded like a folk song, not a bad one, but like, just, you know, like. And he was singing let's Dance. So I thought he was trying to see if I was just some, like, sycophantish wacky dude who wanted a paycheck or something. So I said to him, hey, David, can I do an arrangement? And he went, sure. I was like, whoa, awesome. So I wrote out some charts and I changed my guitar part from just up a half step to. And I was like going, man, this is cool. And then I inverted the whole thing up an octave. I went. And he was like, wow, that's my song. I went, yeah, now check this out. It was very much like let's dance that, you know. And I remember asking him, david, do you think I made this too funky? And he said the coolest thing I have ever heard in my life. He looked at me and went, Niall darling, is there such a thing?

[Nile Rogers]

I was like, you are the man.

[Chris Melanfi]

In short, Niall helped David shape his song into a hit and David gave Nile back his confidence. And the finished song and title track from Bowie's forthcoming album, it did more than all right.

[Narrator/Host]

To the song that playing on the radio.

[Chris Melanfi]

In the summer of 1983, let's Dance became David Bowie's first Hot 100 number one hit in nearly eight years since his 1975 chart topper fame. It kicked off the biggest pop star moment of Bowie's career. It even helped launch the career of a killer guitarist who took the song's searing solo, a young Stevie Ray Vaughn.

[Narrator/Host]

Let's Dance.

[Chris Melanfi]

The Let's Dance album tested Nile Rogers skills as a producer and arranger. Bowie would bring him songs from the album, including an oddball track from a 1977 LP Bowie wrote with and for his friend Iggy Pop called China Girl. Nile Rogers reimbursement imagined the song from top to bottom, layering in an interpolation of the stereotypical oriental riff and turning China Girl from proto punk into pop. It too was a hit, peaking at number 10. No David Bowie album had ever generated three hits in America. Let's Dance broke that streak when Modern Love, produced by Nile Rogers as debonair jet setting dance rock reached number 14 on the Hot 100.

[Narrator/Host]

Walks beside me, Walks on fire Gets me to the church.

[Chris Melanfi]

The Let's Dance LP peaked at number four on the album chart, Bowie's highest charting album since 1976's Station to Station and it was his first to go platinum in America. It was not only the most commercial, most danceable music Bowie had ever released, it also represented a new permutation of Nile Rogers, moving him finally out from behind his chic success and making him the leading producer of a novel brand of danceable new wave rock music at a moment when that sound was sweeping MTV and Top 40 radio. Suddenly, by late 1983 and 84, Nile Rogers became pop's most in demand producer. He took full advantage of this new profile to produce an array of acts from the us, the uk, even Australia. Aussie band In Excess were preparing their album the Swing in the fall of 83 when they invited Nile Rogers to produce a track for them. Original Sin was a cutting edge dance rock single featuring Niles signature riffy guitars. Rogers encouraged the band to be make the lyrics about an interracial couple with the refrain Dream on white boy, dream on black girl. Inspired by Nile's own raising in a multiracial family. Though the song was only a minor pop hit, it was a big club hit and it set up in excess for their American breakthrough in the second half of the eight. As a finishing touch, Nile invited American singer Daryl hall to harmonize with INXS singer Michael Hutchence on the song's chorus. And why was Nile Revolution Rogers friendly with Daryl Hall? Around the same time Nile was producing a remix of Daryl hall and John Oates early 1984 single adult education, Rogers pumped up the hall and Oates track, adding hand clapping rhythms and tribal chants to make it more infectious.

[Narrator/Host]

Oh yeah, what we need is do Education.

[Chris Melanfi]

When the INXS single hit the clubs, it caught the attention of the Premier band of MTV fueled 80s dance rock, the group that had wanted to sound like Chic in the first place, Duran Duran. The Fab Five, as Duran Duran were now dubbed, were busy promoting their smash late 1983 studio album Seven and the Ragged Tiger. It led off with the very chic esque number three hit Union of the Snake. By the time they got wind of Rogers work with David Bowie and In Excess, Duran Duran were already promoting the album's second single, the number 10 hit New Moon on Monday, and they needed a follow up. One of the catchiest songs on Seven and the Ragged Tiger. The album's leadoff track, the Reflex, had potential, but it sounded like an album cut. It had a good melodic riff, but it wrote it into the ground and it wasn't dynamic enough to make it on the radio. So Duran Duran hired Nile Rogers not to produce, but as with the hall and Oates single, to rethink the Reflex. Niles remix kept the best elements of the track, but he rebuilt the Reflex to sound like it could be playing in a packed nightclub or, as in the song's music video, a packed arena. Duran Duran's label feared that Rogers had made the song sound quote, too black and at first they balked at releasing it. The band overruled the label and they were right to trust Nile Rogers. The Reflex, powered by its Remix, became Duran Duran's first ever US number one hit, reaching the top of the Hot 100 in June 1984. Then, almost immediately, the band gave Rogers another assignment, producing a brand new track, which would be a bonus studio cut on their forthcoming live album Arena. It would have the tribal drums of Niles remix for hall and Oates, plus chiming sounds descended from his work in Chic. They called it the Wild Boys. While all this Duran Duran activity was going on, Rogers met and began working with another rising pop star, whom, like David Bowie, he'd first met at a New York nightclub. But unlike Bowie at that time, she was largely unknown. Rogers was impressed with the young woman's drive, but at first even he figured she'd only be a hit in dance clubs. It was easy to underestimate Madonna in 1980, 1983, her self titled debut album was eight tracks of freestyle and electro dance music, like the number 16 hit holiday. And many critics dissed Madonna's thin, often high pitched voice. But the songs were packed with hooks. Sire Records, her label, expected great things from Madonna that she would be much more than a club act. They had even identified a song that might work for her, but it was rather quirky. The songwriting duo of Billy Steinberg and Tom Kelly wrote hits for a variety of clients. But even they weren't quite sure what to do with Like A Virgin. This demo features Tom Kelly singing in falsetto. A Warner executive thought that Madonna might like it and she did. She proposed that it should be the title track from her next album and that Nile Rogers, whom she'd met the prior year after a live club appearance, should produce it. So Sire approached Niall to produce Madonna's forthcoming second album. More confident after his David Bowie triumph, Rogers negotiated a lopsided deal that gave him a bigger share of the LP than a producer normally earns. He later said the Like A Virgin album was the most lucrative LP he ever worked on. Sire agreed to his terms and in early 1984, Nile began work with Madonna. Her instincts about him proved right. He knew what to do with that quirky song. Nile brought in both of his instrumental peers, from chic bassist Bernard Edwards and drummer Tony Thompson, to play on the Like A Virgin album. He had convinced Madonna that even though she was primarily thought of as a dance artist, one likelier to sing over synth melodies and programmed beats, live instruments would bring the songs to life. He also coached her on how to sing both Like A Virgin and Material Girl, two songs that were in a key outside of her natural range. Between Nile's technical skill and Madonna's legendary work ethic, they finally nailed the vocals. By the way, a quick assumption. Side, not only was Rogers instrumental in Madonna's vocal performance, he was dead on about bringing in his old bandmates, especially drummer Tony Thompson. The drums on Like A Virgin are, I would argue, the album's most underrated element. Seriously, even if you've heard Material Girl a bajillion times, listen to it again with fresh ears. Tony Thompson's backbeat and drum fills are monstrous. The Like A Virgin album was largely complete by the start of summer 1984. But there was a problem, a good problem to have the Madonna album. Her debut was still generating hits. Borderline took several months to climb the charts, and by early summer 84 it was a top 10 hit. Madonna's first Sire Records approached Nile Rogers, telling him the first album was was doing better than expected and asking him what they should do. Rogers advised them to hold the new album that he just produced and keep promoting singles from the first one. The gambit worked. Lucky star reached number four on the Hot 100 by the early fall of 84, setting up the second album perfectly. Of course, by the time Lucky Star peaked, Madonna herself had provided the best possible album preview with this televised showcase. Madonna's fabled performance on MTV's first ever Video Music Awards in 1984 ensured that like A Virgin would be a smash, both the Nile Rogers produced album and the single. By December 1984, the song had topped the Hot 100, Madonna's first ever number one. By February 1985, the album was also number one. Both of these chart toppers cemented Nile Rogers status. Remarkably, the Like a Virgin album was the first number one LP of of his career. No chic album had gone that high, nor had the Diana or Let's Dance LPs, and the single was his fifth Hot 100 number one as a producer, following his two Chic chart toppers, Diana Ross's Upside down and David Bowie's Let's Dance. If you count his remix work on Duran Duran's the Reflex, it was his sixth and crucially from Upside down to Like A Virgin. Nile Rogers had scored the bulk of his number ones after the Disco Sucks movement had killed Sheik's commercial prospects, which, by the way, was ongoing. Chic were still in a slump. As late as 1983, Rogers and Bernard Edwards were still issuing albums and singles, but none of them did well on the charts, even as they tried to modernize the chic sound. Tracks like Give Me the Lovin' would miss the hot 100 entirely and Peter out in the lower half of the R B chart. This stranger the relationship between Nile Rogers and Bernard Edwards. Nile brought in his friend to play bass on both the David Bowie and Madonna albums, but their interactions were more chilly and businesslike. Nile shifted his attention fully toward his behind the boards career, producing and playing for a slew of different acts as varied as Mick Jagger on his first first solo album, 1985's she's the Boss, Peter Gabriel with a song that was on no kidding, the Gremlins soundtrack. And the Thompson Twins, whose next album was foundering after its lead single lay your hands on me missed the US charts in late 1984, Arista executive Clive Davis hired Nile Rogers to save the Thompson Twins project and in 1985 Nile remixed the hit and turned the Thompson Twins here's to future days album into a success. Even one of Niles old clients was benefiting from his newfound clout. Sister Sledge mounted a comeback in England in 1984 when a reissue of their single Thinking of you, originally from their 1979 We Are Family album, reached number 11 on the UK chart. Striking while the iron was hot, Sister Sledge went back into the studio with Nile Rogers in 1985 and produced a new album which spawned Sister Sledge's first and only UK number one hit. Frankie.

[Narrator/Host]

You left me Frankie, do you remember me Frankie?

[Chris Melanfi]

The comeback of Sister Sledge was a throwback to the peak Chic era when Rogers and Bernard Edwards were still a joint chart colossus. But by 1985 Bernard Edwards was finally making his own mark as a solo producer and he did it just as one Nile Rogers client was splintering apart. The Power Station was a Duran Duran spin off group. It comprised the band's guitarist and Taylor, its bassist John Taylor, journeyman singer Robert Palmer and chic drummer Tony Thompson. The two Taylors formed the group in a bid to produce more rock leaning tracks than Duran Duran. Named for a famed New York City recording studio, the Power Station tapped Bernard Edwards to produce their self titled nineteen 1985 debut album which eventually went platinum and spawned the instant number six hit Some Like It Hot. Edwards did so well producing the Power Station side project that soon he was tapped to work on the main event, Duran Duran, who had been tapped by the producers of the James Bond movie franchise to record the title track from 1985's Roger Moore film A View to a Kill. Bernard Edwards co produced the theme with longtime James Bond score composer John Barry. When A View to a Kill, the song topped the Hot 100 in July 1985, it not only became Duran Duran's second ever US number one hit, it also gave each Chic founder credit on a Duran Duran chart topper. The Edwards produced Bond theme hit the top just over a year after Nile Rogers remix of the Reflex. At one point in the summer of 85, hits by both Duran Duran and the Power Station were going head to head on the charts and both of them were produced by Bernard Edwards. A View to a Kill and the Power Station's cover of T. Rex's classic get it on Bang A Gone, which reached number nine. Then when Power Station singer Robert Palmer decided to skip touring with the project and focus instead on his next solo album, he tapped Bernard Edwards to produce it. That album, Riptide, went double platinum, the biggest seller of Robert Palmer's career, and in the spring of 1986 it generated Palmer's only Hot 100 number one hit, the Edwards produced Addicted to Love. For the second half of the 1980s. Even if they weren't competing directly with each other, Bernard Edwards was evening the score with his former partner Nile Rogers. Both of them were chart titans, each producing a string of hits for a wide range of artists. Early in 1986, Edwards produced a song on the gold soundtrack to the movie Pretty in Pink for British new wave rocker Bluey Sum. Edwards also produced a top five hit in 1987 for the Dance pop duo ABC with their soul revival smash When Smokey Sings. He produced a track for Jody Watley's solo debut album, the top 10 hit don't you want me, don't you want Me. And Edwards produced the lead off hit from out of order veteran Rod Stewart's 1988 chart comeback album, the rocker Lost in youn. Meanwhile, Nile rogers reconvened in 1986 with Duran Duran producing their platinum comeback album Notorious. Its title track was a number two hit, And though Nile didn't produce it, he played rhythm guitar and appeared in the video for Steve Winwood's R B flavored 1986 number one smash Higher Love. Perhaps Nile Rogers most unexpected success of the late 80s was the 1989 B52's album Cosmic Thing. We talked about this improbable smash in our 2018 Hit Parade episode about the bands from Athens, Georgia, the B52s and R.E.M. suffice it to say, no one involved with Cosmic Thing expected it to be the multi platinum blockbuster it became. That included its two producers, who each took on about half of the B52's album was not was. Bassist and co founder Don was produced four of the album's tracks, including the funk flavored party track Love Shack, And Nile Rogers produced the album's other six tracks, including two of its later hits. Rogers hearkened back to his psychedelic hippie past with the groovy Globe trotting Rome, a number three hit, And he helmed the B52's elegiac follow up single Deadbeat Club, a number 30 hit. By 1990 Nile's credibility in the guitar world was strong enough that he produced the first and only album by brothers and ace guitarists Jimmy and Stevie Ray Vaughn. Remember, Stevie Ray had worked with Rogers in 1983 on David Bowie's Let's Dance album. The Vaughn Brothers album Family Style, produced by Rogers, turned out to be Stevie Ray's swan song. It was recorded released in September 1990, just weeks after Stevie Ray Vaughan died in a helicopter crash. By the turn of the 90s, both Nile Rogers and Bernard Edwards had each achieved enough success that they felt ready to reunite Chic. They revived the band in 1992 with an array of different players. Drummer Tony Thompson was busy working on other projects and unavailable, but vocalist Fonzie Thornton did return. The 92 album Chic ism wasn't a big seller, but it did generate two big club hits, the self referential Chicago Mystique, which modernized their vintage disco sound, And you'd Love, which blended the chic sound with the deep bass of 90s house music. The mid-90s was a time of rebuilding in general, especially for Nile Rogers. Having spent the last decade and a half abusing both alcohol and cocaine. And after several near death experiences, including a hospital visit where his heart had stopped multiple times, Nile finally got sober in 1994 and remains in recovery to this day. Edwards, too, had burned the candle at both ends since Sheik's success, although Rogers claims he did a better job of hiding his addiction. In April 1996, Nile Rogers was invited to Tokyo to accept a Super Producer of the Year Lifetime Achievement award, and he was invited to perform at the legendary Budokan Arena. Nile brought along the members of Sheik to Tokyo, including Bernard Edwards, to share the spotlight with him. But on the night of the performance, Edwards was feeling gravely ill. Despite Rogers insistence that they postpone the Tokyo gig, Edwards insisted that the show go on as planned. That night at the Budokan, even in his weakened condition, Edwards played many of his legendary chic bass lines to a roaring crowd. After the show, Edwards returned to their hotel, telling Rogers he just needed to rest. It was the last time they spoke. Bernard Edwards was found dead the following morning. The autopsy determined he had died of pneumonia. Edwards was 43 years old. Nile Rogers was devastated at the loss of his longtime friend and Chic collaborator. It would not be the last time he lost a musical peer. In 2003, drummer Tony Thompson succumbed to renal cancer just three days before his 49th birthday. Nile himself endured a 2010 diagnosis of prostate cancer. But amazingly, more than a decade after that diagnosis, he remains both alive and sober and it's a good thing Rogers lived to see the last quarter century. Since Bernard Edwards passing, it has not been a quiet 25 years for Niall or his his Chic legacy. Nile Rogers and Bernard Edwards scored two more number one Hot 100 hits in the late 90s without doing a Thing. A pair of hip hop chart toppers sampled two classic chic productions and took them to the top. In the summer of 1997. Mo money mo problems, the Puff Daddy produced posthumous hit for the Notorious B.I.G. rode a sample of the Diana Ross smash I'm Coming out to the top of the charts and just six months later in early 1998, everybody looking at Me Glancing At. Will Smith took a sample of the chic produced Sister Sledge smash He's the Greatest Dancer and transformed it into his number one smash Gettin Jiggy With It.

[Nile Rogers]

Getting Jiggy With It.

[Chris Melanfi]

For his part, Nile Rogers remained active as a player and producer. He collaborated with Duran Duran again on their 2004 album Astronaut and Its Club hit Reach up for the Sunrise. And in 2012, Nile received featured billing on the Adam Lambert track Shady. While these samples and credits for Rogers were rolling out, something subtler but more significant was happening in 21st century population. The chic sound was flowing through a new wave of electronic dance music, and the torch was carried most firmly by French EDM duo Daft Punk. After building an ever larger audience through the 90s and aughts for their robotic throwback future funk, Daft Punk finally decided to record a full album with turn of the 80s technology and they invited Nile Rogers to take part in what would become their biggest album. When the LP Random Access Memories arrived in the spring of 2013, Nile Rogers syncopated guitar lines were audible right from the opening track Give life back to music. Daft Punk's album intended to do just that and it fulfilled its mission on its monster hit single. Get Lucky was written, performed and co credited to Daft Punk. Featuring Pharrell Williams and Nile Rogers, it shot up the charts reaching number two on the Hot 100. In the summer of 2013, it gave Nile Rogers his biggest hit in decades and it swept the critics prizes as the song of the year. The critics weren't the only ones impressed. Both Random Access Memories and Get Lucky were nominated for top prizes at the 2014 Grammy Awards. That night at the Staples Center, Daft Punk Pharrell Nile Rogers and special guest Stevie Wonder performed a medley of Get Lucky and Wonder's classic Another Star. At one point in the Middle of the song, they broke out into a few bars of Chic's biggest hit, Le Fre. Then in an upset, the Daft Punk album and single swept the night's top two prizes, Album of the Year and Record of the Year. Nile Rogers shared in these awards. Even more amazingly, these prizes, including a third Grammy for Pop Group Performance, were Rogers only Recording Academy prizes ever. Backstage, the 61 year old winner of his first ever Grammys was stunned.

[Interviewee/Guest]

Expected to walk home with all these Grammys is weird because in my long career of making records, I probably have had, I don't know, 10, 12 records win Grammys that the producer or the writer didn't win the Grammy in that category. So this is shocking to me. I'm really blown away.

[Chris Melanfi]

If the Recording Academy was a bit late honoring Nile Rogers, the Rock and Roll hall of Fame was even more delinquent. When she When Sheik's first LP turned 25 years old in 2002, the band became eligible for Rock hall induction. The nominating committee put them on the ballot right away. Chic were nominated for the Rock hall's class of 2003. Not too surprisingly, the voters didn't put them in that year. Few bands get into the hall on their first try. But that was just the start of Sheik's frustration. Over the next dozen years, Sheik were nominated for the Rock and Roll hall of Fame 10 more times. Their 11 nominations remains a record for the most ballot appearances without induction. The term the Susan Lucci of the Rock hall has been applied to many artists who waited years to get inducted, especially Chic. But please note, perennial daytime Emmy nominee Susan Lucci did eventually win her Emmy. Chic are still not in the Rock Hall. Adding insult to injury, practically every year they were on the ballot, other acts Sheikh was associated with were swept in ahead of them. These include Blondie, who deservedly got in with the Rock halls class of 2006, while sheik were passed over. In 2007, Grandmaster Flash made history as the first hip hop act to be inducted, while Chic, the band that Flash loved to slice up on his turntables, went down a third time. In 2008, Madonna, on her very first ballad got inducted while her producer Nile Rogers did not. In 2009, guitar wizard Jeff Beck got into the Hall. Did I mention Nile Rogers produced him too?

[Narrator/Host]

You can turn it all on night after night.

[Chris Melanfi]

In 2013, Chic's disco peer Donna Summer, on her fifth try and tragically the year after her death, was finally deservedly inducted. A year after that in 2014, Daryl hall and Jean Oates finally took the podium to accept induction. Sheik went unfulfilled for the eighth time. The next year, 2015, Sheik were blanked a ninth time, while Nile Rogers late friend Stevie Ray Vaughan was belatedly inducted. In all of these years, the Rock hall nominating committee stubbornly, but rightly kept putting Chic on the ballot. The voters, made up largely of veteran rockers who didn't get the memo that disco and dance music are part of rock and roll, just kept ignoring that box. This makes Chic officially the most snubbed act in Rock hall history. Their 11 nominations beat the prior record by Solomon Burke, who got in on his 10th ballot. By the way, your Hit Parade host became a Rock hall voter in 2016. And I got to vote for Sheik Ra once. For all the good that that did. In 2017, when Chic were snubbed that 11th time, the Rock hall organizers finally waved a white flag. They announced that Nile Rogers by himself would be inducted into the hall for his production work under the banner of musical excellence, a category the hall organizers can use by fiat without a full membership vote. That night at the induction ceremony at Brooklyn's Barclays center, the surviving co founder of Chic was genuinely touched. But he couldn't help alluding to the irony.

[Nile Rogers]

It's funny, I was saying to Pharrell, almost everybody on this stage, as a matter of fact, almost everybody who's been in the Rock and Roll hall of Fame who's in the Rock and Roll hall of Fame, I've worked with. This award, which is amazing to me, is really because of all the people that have allowed me to come into their lives and just join their band. Be it Mick Jagger, be it Madonna, be it Bowie, be it it the B52s, be it in Excess, be it Daft Punk, be it Pharrell Williams, be it Diana Ross, be it Sister Sledge. I mean, just goes on and on and on. And I gotta tell you, thank you, Rock and Roll hall of Fame.

[Chris Melanfi]

As for the legacy of Chic, well, you've probably heard their sound on the radio just in the last year. A wave of nouveau disco pop dominated the charts in 2020, including new hits by Doja Cat, Lady Gaga, and most especially British singer Dua Lipa, whose number two smash Don't Start now is a loving, faithful recreation of the peak Chic sound. I like to think that the world needed chic in 2020. Between the pandemic and our divisive politics, it was a rough year. Even rougher than 1979, the year Nile Rogers and Bernard Edwards kept America's spirits aloft by insisting that these were the good times. Bernard Edwards spent his final night on Earth in 1996 playing his most immortal bass line at the Budokan in Tokyo. And however long we still have Nile Rogers with us, I know he'll keep scratching out a rhythm on his guitar while his feet keep dancing. I hope you enjoyed this episode of Hit Parade. Our show was written, edited and narrated by Chris Melanfi. That's me. My producer is Asha Solution. Special thanks to dance music scholar Christian John Wycaine for research assistance. June Thomas is the senior Managing producer and and Gabriel Roth the Editorial Director of Slate Podcasts. Check out their roster of [e-mail] podcasts. You can subscribe to Hit Parade wherever you get your podcasts, in addition to finding it in the Slate Culture feed. If you're subscribing on Apple Podcasts, please rate and review us while you're there. It helps other listeners find the show. Thanks for for listening and I look forward to leading the Hit Parade back your way. Until then, keep on marching on the one. I'm Chris Melanfi. I.