This Ain’t No Party?! Edition Part 2

Summary

Hit Parade | Music History and Music Trivia Episode: This Ain’t No Party?! Edition Part 2 (October 27, 2023) Host: Chris Molanphy (Slate Podcasts)

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Chris Molanphy continues his exploration of how seminal New York punk and new wave acts navigated the 1980s. He chronicles the transformation of artists who emerged from CBGB’s scene—Blondie, The Ramones, Patti Smith, Talking Heads, and Television—as they grappled with genres, mainstream success, and pop innovation. Through chart trivia, historical context, and music critique, Molanphy illustrates the myriad ways these artists evolved (or struggled) to maintain their relevance, influence, and credibility in a rapidly shifting musical landscape.

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Key Discussion Points

Blondie’s Genre-Hopping Success (00:00–22:03)

• Transitioning to the 1980s: Blondie moves beyond punk roots, experimenting with new wave, disco, reggae, and even hip-hop.
• “Call Me” & Giorgio Moroder Collaboration:
  • Debbie Harry, invited by Moroder (legendary disco/electro producer), records “Call Me” for American Gigolo. It becomes a major pop and dance crossover (#1 in the US for six weeks) and the top Billboard song of 1980.
  • Quote – Chris Molanphy (03:39): “Blondie had successfully transitioned into the 80s with their rocker cred intact, thanks to a movie.”
• Continued Experimentation on AutoAmerican (1980):
  • “The Tide Is High” (rocksteady/reggae cover) hits #1 despite reggae’s low U.S. chart presence.
  • “Rapture” introduces mainstream audiences to hip-hop, including namechecks for Fab 5 Freddy and Grandmaster Flash.
  • Notable Quote – Radio Announcer (21:38): “It features a very weird rap by singer Deborah Harry in the middle of the song, may remind you a bit of Alice in Wonderland. Blondie with ‘Rapture.’”
  • Four different #1 hits in four distinct genres: disco (“Heart of Glass”), electro-rock (“Call Me”), reggae (“The Tide Is High”), and rap-infused new wave (“Rapture”).
• Debbie Harry’s Solo Career and Blondie’s Decline (22:03–26:49):
  • Attempts to distinguish her identity (“Debbie Blondie” confusion), Harry collaborates with Nile Rodgers and Bernard Edwards of Chic for Cuckoo (1981), moving further into Black-influenced pop—but the album underperforms.
  • Final Blondie album of the era (The Hunter, 1982) fails commercially; group disbands (26:49).

The Ramones’ Struggles for Crossover (05:52–39:19)

• Film and Phil Spector Collaboration:
  • Star in Rock and Roll High School (1979) in an attempt at mainstream exposure.
  • End of the Century album produced by Phil Spector—famous for his Wall of Sound—results in a bruising studio experience, but yields their highest-charting album yet (#44). Studio horror stories abound, including Spector allegedly holding band members at gunpoint.
  • Quote – Chris Molanphy (07:55): “At one point, the story goes, Spector held Joey and DD Ramone hostage at gunpoint while he played the Ronettes’ ‘Baby I Love You’ over and over.”
• 80s Experiments and Infighting:
  • Attempt various producers and radio-friendly sounds—AOR rock, synths, punk nostalgia—in albums like Pleasant Dreams (1981), Subterranean Jungle (1983), and Too Tough to Die (1984).
  • Lyrical themes shift to satire and protest, e.g., “Bonzo Goes to Bitburg” (criticizing Reagan’s Bitburg cemetery visit) and a parody of ‘charity’ singles with “Something to Believe In.”
  • Quote – Chris Molanphy (39:19): “If the Ramones couldn’t make themselves into pop stars, they were going to be pop’s class clowns.”

Patti Smith, Television & CBGB Alumni (10:45–19:15, 42:17–47:15)

• Patti Smith: Semi-retires for much of the 1980s after marrying Fred “Sonic” Smith. Returns in 1988 with Dream of Life; “People Have the Power” becomes an album rock radio favorite and a modern protest anthem.
• Television: Disbands after their second album, Tom Verlaine becomes a solo cult figure whose work would be referenced and covered by David Bowie.
• Modern Rock Acceptance: Billboard’s Modern Rock chart launches in 1988, finally legitimizing these “alternative” voices in industry terms.
  • Patti Smith’s “Up There Down There” (1988) and Ramones’ “Pet Sematary” (1989) both climb the modern rock ranks.

Talking Heads’ Artistic and Commercial Zenith (19:15–41:00)

• Brian Eno Collaboration & "Remain in Light" (17:05–19:15):*
  • Inspired by Fela Kuti and African polyrhythms; “Once in a Lifetime” becomes a durable classic despite missing the Top 100 in 1981.
• Side Projects: Tom Tom Club (members Chris Frantz & Tina Weymouth):
  • “Wordy Rappinghood” fuses new wave and hip-hop sensibility.
  • “Genius of Love” features shout-outs to Black music icons, becomes a chart and sampling staple (e.g., Mariah Carey, Lotto).
• Mainstream Breakthrough with Speaking in Tongues (1983):
  • “Burning Down the House” becomes Talking Heads’ only Top 10 hit.
  • MTV exposure boosts the band’s profile (“Burning Down the House” video in constant rotation).
• Concert Film Classic: Stop Making Sense (1984):
  • The film’s legacy grows, now hailed as the best concert documentary. Album becomes a “greatest hits” by default due to longevity and cultural cachet.
• 1985-86 Americana Phase & Wind-down:
  • Albums Little Creatures and True Stories embrace kitschy “Americana,” generate a handful of radio and MTV hits.
  • Final chart hits: “Wild Wild Life” (Hot 100 #25) and “Sax and Violins” (Modern Rock #1, 1992).

Lasting Legacy and 1990s-2000s Epilogue (47:15–end)

• Influence on New Generations:
  • 10,000 Maniacs cover Patti Smith’s “Because the Night” (Hot 100 #11, 1994).
  • Radiohead name derived from a Talking Heads track.
  • Pop-punk boom of the 1990s (Green Day, Offspring, Rancid) builds directly on Ramones’ blueprint.
• Decline and Aftermath:
  • Ramones disband after Adios Amigos (1995); members pass away in subsequent years.
  • Blondie reunites in 1997; “Maria” returns them to UK #1 in 1999.
  • Post-Talking Heads, members pursue solo projects. A cautious media-centered reunion happens for Stop Making Sense’s 40th anniversary in 2023.
• CBGB’s Final Days and Legacy:
  • Club closes in 2006; its site becomes a clothing store. Patti Smith headlines the final show, linking the end of an era to ongoing activism.
  • Quote – Patti Smith (58:01): “Farewell CBGB’s 33 years. It’s the same age as Jesus.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Blondie’s Genre Mastery:
  “So, three number ones so far for Blondie, in the genres of disco, electro rock, and reggae.” — Chris Molanphy (19:15)

• On Spector’s Infamous Methods with the Ramones:
  “At one point, the story goes, Spector held Joey and DD Ramone hostage at gunpoint while he played the Ronettes ‘Baby I Love You’ over and over.” — Chris Molanphy (07:55)

• On Reverse Crossover:
  “If the Ramones couldn’t make themselves into pop stars, they were going to be pop’s class clowns.” — Chris Molanphy (39:19)

• On Talking Heads’ Transformation:
  “Talking Heads had gone from punk misfits to one of the most acclaimed bands in America...” — Chris Molanphy (39:19)

• On the Enduring Power of Community:
  “People have the power.” — Patti Smith, performed at numerous benefit events (47:05, 59:41)

• On Reunion and Gratitude:
  “We’re just savoring the moment. We’re so happy that it’s resulted in this wonderful thing that’s lasted 40 years, and we’re not really looking too far into the future... We’re super glad we’re alive.” — Tina Weymouth, Pitchfork interview quoted by Chris Molanphy (56:31)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:00–05:29 — Blondie’s pivot to new wave and partnership with Giorgio Moroder on “Call Me.”
• 05:52–08:51 — Ramones’ adventures with Rock and Roll High School and Phil Spector’s domineering production.
• 10:45–12:28 — Patti Smith’s transition from punk icon to parent and semi-retirement.
• 17:05–22:03 — Talking Heads’ Afrobeat and hip-hop innovations, Blondie’s reggae and hip-hop breakthroughs (“Rapture”).
• 22:03–26:49 — Debbie Harry’s solo efforts, Blondie’s commercial decline and hiatus.
• 29:46–32:07 — Tom Tom Club’s “Genius of Love” and Talking Heads’ commercial peak with “Burning Down the House.”
• 39:19–41:00 — Ramones as satirists; Talking Heads’ “Stop Making Sense” concert film.
• 42:17–47:15 — Talking Heads embrace Americana; Patti Smith and the modern rock era.
• 49:09–52:08 — Ramones’ late-career modern rock success and struggles with commercial recognition.
• 54:20–58:13 — Final CBGB closure, band reunions and epilogues for Blondie, Talking Heads, and Patti Smith.
• 58:13–end — Patti Smith’s lasting activism and her performance of “People Have the Power” near the site of CBGB.

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Conclusion

This episode captures the restless inventiveness, setbacks, and hard-won legacies of CBGB’s alumni as they wandered the boundary between art and commerce in the 1980s—and how their influence was ultimately codified in alternative and mainstream pop for decades to come. Through sharp analysis and storytelling, Chris Molanphy highlights the “do-it-yourself” ethos and enduring resonance of artists who “outgrew” punk by changing music history.

Transcript

[Chris Melanfi]

You're listening ad free on Amazon Music. Welcome back to Hit Parade, a podcast of pop chart history from Slate magazine about the hits from coast to coast. I'm Chris Melanfi, chart analyst, pop critic and writer of Slate's why Is this Song Number One series. On our last episode we talked about how the New York City nightclub CBGB became the birthplace of punk in the 1970s, and what a wide range of sounds fell under that term, from the pure punk of the Ramones to the free verse of Patti Smith, the quirky funk rock of Talking Heads to the genre hopping Blondie. We are now at the start of the 1980s when several of these bands are trying to figure how much they can stretch the definition of punk and score some actual pop chart hits. In early 1980, Blondie pulled one last single from their 1979 Eat to the Beat LP. Though it barely scraped the top 40 in America, peaking at number 39 in the UK, this single, Atomic, was a smash, spending a fortnight at number one. What was most important about Atomic was how it pointed a way forward for Blondie in the New Wave era. It had elements of surf rock and even a cowboy like twang, but it wasn't retro. It was danceable, but it wasn't disco the way Heart of Glass was. Fundamentally, it was a rock song, danceable rock, a credibly commercial Blondie sound. Around the same time, Blondie's Debbie Harry was invited to contribute to the soundtrack of director Paul Schrader's 1980 Richard Gere Neo noir film American Gigolo. The man in charge of the film's score was Italian producer composer Giorgio Moroder, whom we've mentioned in several episodes of Hit Parade. He had a very productive 1970s packed with hits. Maroder had guided Donna Summer to a string of disco number ones, including her recent turn toward rock informed dance tracks like Hot Stuff and On his own. Moroder had just won an Oscar for scoring the Alan Parker thriller Midnight Express. This made Maroder perhaps the ideal producer to push Blondie further in the direction of electronic music and danceable rock. Maroder had a song that he first invited Fleetwood Mac's Stevie Nicks to sing on when she was unavailable. He invited Debbie Harry to help him finish the lyrics and record the song. Though the rest of Blondie made only minor contributions to the track, including some backing vocals. The song was released as a Blondie single and it exploded. Call Me a song, quite literally about a gigolo's lifestyle, was full of sleaze and strut. Debbie Harry ranged vocally From a purring coup to a punk howl atop Giorgio Moroder's propulsive synth beats. Debuting on the Hot 100 in February 1980, Call Me took two months to climb to number one, where it remained for six straight weeks. Billboard later named it the top song of 1980. Blondie had successfully transitioned into the 80s with their rocker cred intact, thanks to a movie. The Ramones were trying something similar, except they were actually appearing on screen.

[Casey Kasem]

It's 1980. Welcome to Rock and Roll High School. Rock and Roll High School.

[Chris Melanfi]

Rock and Roll High School was produced by B movie king Roger Corman to capitalize on the late seventies musical movie craze in the wake of Grease. It starred actress PJ Souls as rocker teen Riff Randall, who leads a rebellion at her high school, and featured a cameo from the Ramones. They were not the filmmaker's first choice. Director Alan Arkish initially approached Cheap Trick and even Todd Rundgren, but the Ramones proved game and looked the part of youth Rebels. They also provided a very punchy theme song. Acclaimed by critics and a modest box office success upon its release in 1979. Rock and roll High School should have been the ticket for the Ramones to at last make a mainstream crossover into the 1980s. But the foursome spent much of the year holed up in the studio with a volatile producer. Genius. Phil Spectacular actor, the legendary producer of 60s hit makers from the Ronettes and the Crystals to the Righteous Brothers and Tina Turner, was as famous for his wall of sound as he was infamous for his perfectionism and his violent temper. Spectre had been chasing after the Ramones for years, hearing in their punk melodicism a hard hitting replica of his classic sound. The band finally agreed to be produced by him in a bid to expand their fan base, a decision the Ramones came to regret when Spectre locked them in the studio and made them do take after take. At one point, the story goes, Spectre held Joey and DD Ramone hostage at gunpoint while he played the Ronettes Baby I love you over and over. By the way, the Ramones did as they were told. Joey Ramone even recorded a cover of Baby I Love you for the Spectre produced album, which had the portentous title End of the Century.

[Casey Kasem]

Come on Baby.

[Chris Melanfi]

The Ramones did contribute their own material as well, including DD Ramone's Chinese rock, a thinly veiled ode to his own heroin addiction. When the cursed album finally came out in the winter of 1980 after months of remixing by Phil Spector and nearly a year after sessions started, End of the Century earned respectable reviews and better than average sales for the Ramones, it reached number 44 on the billboard album chart, the band's highest placement ever. Perhaps the unusually glossy photo of the band on the COVID helped, and though the Spectresque single Do youo Remember Rock and Roll Radio didn't crack the Hot 100, it did score some rock radio airplay. Nonetheless, End of the Century didn't make the Ramones a big enough chart success to justify the over awful recording experience. They would spend the rest of the 80s trying other crossover experiments, whereas their peer Patty Smith would spend most of the decade off the radar entirely.

[Casey Kasem]

I'm Dancing Bad But Having Fun Patti.

[Chris Melanfi]

Smith finished the 70s with her wave album produced by Todd Rundgren. It became her highest charting LP in Billboard, peaking at number 18 on the album chart. Dancing Barefoot, its best known single, would become Smith's most covered song after because the night just before the release of Wave, Patti Smith met Fred Sonic Smith, former guitar player for the Detroit proto punk band the MC5. Smith and Smith fell in love and got married, and Patty spent most of the 80s and Semi retired from music raising their two kids in Michigan, just north of Detroit. Patti Smith's CBGB peers, Television also sat out the 1980s. The band broke up after their second album and Tom Verlaine shifted gears to a solo career. Verlaine proved quietly influential on the emerging new wave sound Kingdom Come, a track from his solo debut, was covered immediately by David Bowie on his number 12 hit album Scary Monsters, And Verlaine's own 1981 album Dreamtime actually cracked the Billboard chart and produced a minor rock radio hit with Always. But the most rewarding new wave experiments of the turn of the 80s came from talking Heads, who not only continued their sonic explorations with producer Brian Eno, but deepened the approach after Izimbra. Their 1979 Afrobeat inspired single got them onto the dance charts. Talking Heads upped the ante with their 1980s single Cross Eyed and Painless, a number 20 dance hit. The bridge of Cross Eyed and Painless, a rhythmic chant by David Byrne, was essentially a proto rap, which Byrne later said was Inspired by the 1980 hit by Curtis Blowing the brakes. As Talking Heads went deeper into their fourth album, which they would title Remain in Light, they took inspiration from African music, most especially the work of Afrobeat legend Fela Kuti. Our minds are in those places. Here We Go so Far, so Far and Joy For Heaven. These African style polyrhythms adapted by drummer Chris France and bassist Tina Weymouth gave a signature to Remain In Light. Singles like Cross Eyed and Painless and Houses in Motion, Talking Heads developed Remain in Light by recording jams, isolating the best parts and learning to play them repetitively. These polyrhythmic experiments led to the album's magnum opus, a cacophonous song that blended the band's interpretations of funk and Afrobeat with David Burns elliptical lyrics, which he declaimed with the fiery cadence of a preacher about the mundanity and the mystery of the material world. He called it Once in a Lifetime. Talked about Once in a Lifetime on our Legacy hits episode of Hit Parade, a song too advanced for the pop charts in 1981, it bubbled under the Hot 100 at number 103 that has since become one of Talking Head's most iconic, heavily streamed singles. If nothing else, Once in a Lifetime proved that the denizens of CBGB had either outgrown or expanded the boundaries of punk. Meanwhile, Blondie in 1980 were building on their success with Call Me as they recorded their next album, Auto American, with producer Mike Chapman. Like Talking Heads on Remain in Light, Blondie decided to search beyond American borders for sounds they could emulate. The Paragons, a Jamaican vocal group specializing in the reggae sub genre Rocksteady, recorded the Tide is High in 1967. I mentioned it briefly, by the way, in our pilot episode of Hit Parade about the history of the UB40 hit red red wine. During a late 70s visit to London, Debbie Harry received a compilation tape with the Paragons, the Tide Is High. On it years later, Chris Stein recalled that Harry wanted to record a version of the Tide Is High with British ska band the Specials. When the Specials turned her down, Blondie recorded the Tide Is High themselves instead. The Tide Is High is arguably the record that affirmed Blondie's imperial could do no wrong status. Released in the fall of 1980 at a moment when reggae was not especially popular on the American hit parade, the Tide Is High took a dozen weeks to reach number one on the Hot 100. So three number ones so far for Blondie in the genres of disco, electro, rock and reggae. For the next single from Auto American, Blondie tried an even wilder genre experiment. Only the sound they were adopting on this one was much closer to home in New York City. The story goes that in 1978 Debbie Harry and Chris Stein were taken by Fred Brathwaite, better known in hip hop circles as Fab 5 Freddy, up to the Bronx, where they witnessed their first rap show. Freddie had met Harry and Stein at cbgb, and he saw synergy between the downtown punk scene and the emerging uptown hip hop scene. Harry and Stein wanted to try their hand at Rapid, with Freddy's blessing and involvement. Their first experiment was a novelty Christmas record called Yuletide Throwdown, with Freddie rapping it would go unreleased, but it was a blueprint. Then working with the rest of Blondie, Harry and Stine refined the song, With keyboardist Jimmy Destry adding Tubular Bells, the rhythm section adding a post disco groove, and Stein and Harriet penning a bizarre rap break that not only shouts out Fab 5 Freddy and Grandmaster Flash, but tells a loopy tale of a man from Mars eating cars. The result, Rapture, which began climbing the charts when the Tide Is High was still at number one, was a seminal moment for hip hop culture in the mainstream. At first, pop audiences didn't know quite what to make of it, as evidenced by what Casey Kasem said about it.

[Radio Announcer]

The highest debuting song in this week's countdown is Blondie's follow up to their recent number one smash the Tide Is High. But it doesn't bear any resemblance at all to the Tide Is High. It features a very weird rap by singer Deborah Harry in the middle of the song may remind you a bit of Alice in Wonderland. Blondie with Rapture.

[Chris Melanfi]

Just eight weeks after it debuted, Rapture was number one, completing Blondie's quad fecta of number one songs, all scored between the spring of 1979 and the winter of 1981, and in four different styles. We'll be back momentarily. Just how big a household name were Blondie and Debbie Harry at this point? For starters, while Blondie were recording auto American, Debbie Harry was invited to be the showcase guest on an episode of the Muppet Show. For another thing, Blondie were also invited to contribute a theme song to the next installment of the James Bond movie franchise. So in 1981, Chris Stein penned this song for the Roger Moore as Bond film for your Eyes Only. If this for your Eyes Only doesn't sound familiar, that's because the film's producers and its score composer, Bill Conti decided they preferred a different for your Eyes Only written by Conti himself. They invited Debbie Harry to sing it, but she declined in favor of the song Chris Stein had written and that Blondie had recorded. So Bill Conti's for your Eyes Only went to Scottish hitmaker Sheena Easton instead. Just imagine this Bond theme, a top five hit for Easton in 1981, could have been Debbie Harry's hit. So yeah, this was the rarefied air Those former punks, Blondie were breathing by 1980 and 81. In an effort to distinguish her career from the group's Debbie Harry joked at the time that fans sometimes called her Debbie Blondie or just assumed the group's name meant her. Harry spent the first half of 1981 recording a solo album with Nile Rogers and Bernard Edwards of disco supergroup Chic, and they moved her further in the direction of black, informed pop. We talked about Cuckoo, Harry's solo debut in our chic episode of Hit Parade, including its freaky album cover, an image by sci fi and horror artist H.R. geiger depicting Debbie Harry's face with swords piercing her cheeks. The music was also fairly cutting edge, including the number 29 dance hit backfired or the breakbeat, rocking follow up the Jam was moving. Whether it was the album artwork or the dance funk that Rogers and Edwards penned for Harry, Cuckoo was not a big hit. It peaked at number 25 on the album chart, generated no top 40 hits, and was off the chart in just three months. It was the first sign that Blondie's Imperial era was coming to a close. Debbie Harry returned to the group in 1982 to record one more Blondie LP to fulfill their outstanding Chrysalis Records contract. That LP, the Hunter, was a pale shadow of the prior Blondie sound.

[Casey Kasem]

Island of Lost Souls.

[Chris Melanfi]

Island of Lost Souls, which attempted to do for calypso music what the Tide Is High had done for Rocksteady, Petered out at number 37 on the Hot 100, the hunter peaked even lower on the album chart than Harry's Cuckoo had the year before. After a string of platinum albums, the Hunter didn't even go gold. By 1983, Blondie had gone on a prolonged hiatus. Debbie Harry reverted back to her solo career, recording a single for the Al Pacino film Scarface. Harry would not return to Blondie for over a decade and a half. What had been most interesting about Blondies and Harry's work in this period was how it was conversant with R B and hip hop. Rapture even crossed over to Billboard's soul singles chart, where it peaked at number 33. By that yardstick, a Talking Heads side project from this same period did even better. Chris France and Tina Weymouth, Talking Head's married rhythm section four, formed the band TomTom Club in 1981 while David Byrne and Jerry Harrison were working on solo projects conceived at Compass Point Studios in the Bahamas. Tom Tom Club was intended as a funk rock hybrid that celebrated black American music and sounds from around the world. Their first single, Wordy Rapping Hood sounded like both new wave and hip hop, and it became an immediate hit on the British charts, reaching number seven in the UK in the summer of 81. But the follow up single was an even more improbable smash in America. Genius of Love was a seminal crossover track of early hip hop. On the track, Tom Tom Club paired fluttery romantic lyrics with shout outs to black music history France and Weymouth, name check, James Brown, Bootsy Collins, George Clinton Bohannon and Curtis Blow.

[Casey Kasem]

Stepping in a rhythm to a Curtis Blow who needs to think when your feet just come? Who needs to think when your feet just go.

[Chris Melanfi]

The single not only reached number 31 on the Hot 100, already impressive as Talking Heads themselves rarely went that high, Genius of Love also climbed to number two on the soul singles chart. Remarkable for bluntly a song by moonlighting white rock performers, Genius of Love might also be the most lucrative copyright by any members of Talking Heads, as it has been sampled dozens of times, including famously by pop and Bee megastar Mariah Carey. By British soul singer Mark Morrison, And as recently as 2022 on a number three smash by rapper Lotto. When France and Weymouth returned to the Talking heads fold in 1982, leader David Byrne, reportedly envious of Tom Tom Club's success, decided to take the band in its own commercially funky direction. They produced their next lp, Speaking In Tongues themselves and added an array of seasoned black players, including guitarist Alex Weir, percussionist Steve Scales and synth player Bernie Worrell, and the result was the most commercially successful Talking Heads music to date.

[Casey Kasem]

Burning down the House.

[Chris Melanfi]

Released in the summer of 1983, speaking in tongues led off with Burning down the House, Talking Head's quirky homage to the sound of Parliament Funkadelic. The whole album was steeped in funk, R B and gospel, with bumping keyboards, stomping bass lines and on the track Slippery People, Call and Response vocals between David Byrne and former LaBelle singer Nona Hendrix. With Burning down the House generating round the clock video play on the newly emergent mirror mtv, Talking Heads found themselves scaling the pop charts to heights not seen since Blondie's heyday. Casey Kasem counted it down.

[Casey Kasem]

Number nine.

[Radio Announcer]

The band from New York, Talking Heads climb three notches and get their first top ten hit at number nine, It's Burning down the House.

[Chris Melanfi]

Thanks to their first and only top 10 pop hit by the fall of 83, Speaking in Tongues became Talking Head's highest charting LP ever, reaching number 15 and going platinum. Its tracks became live Staples and Talking Heads perennials. Most especially its closing love song, David Byrne's homage to a romance that feels like home called this Must Be the Place. Though it only reached number 62 on the Hot 100, this must be the Place has become one of Talking Head's biggest hits of the streaming era. While Talking Heads were successfully adapting to the new wave MTV era, their former CBGB peers the Ramones were struggling, moving through a succession of producers, an array of hard rock styles and feuding amongst themselves. Punks or no, if the Ramones could have sold out, they would have. They literally titled one single We Want the Airwaves. That track came from 1981's Pleasant Dreams, which was produced by Graham Gouldman of British rock band 10cc. On it, the Ramones resembled a conventional AOR band. On one track, the KKK took my baby Away, written by Joey Ramone, an apparent diatribe against racism. Joey may have been obliquely referring to a former girlfriend whom Johnny Ramone had had a dalliance with. Johnny and that woman Linda eventually married, but Joey and Johnny remained at odds. Then, on the 1983 album Subterranean Jungle, the Ramones tried returning to their punk roots on tracks like Psychotherapy, Psychotherapy. And to the girl group gone punk, sound of my my kind of girl. The album earned the Ramones their best reviews since Rocket to Russia, but only modest sales. Then on 1984's Too Tough to Die, the band really branched out, working with Dave Stewart of Eurythmics. Yep, this Eurythmics, The result of the Dave Stewart collaboration Howling at the Moon, was a clever synthesized punk track. But Too Tough to Die confused Ramones fans, peaking at number 171 on the album chart. What finally got the Ramones some mainstream attention in the mid-80s was recasting themselves as a satirical protest band. Their 1985 single Bonzo Goes to Bitburg, co written by Joey and Dee Dee Ramone, protested President Ronald Reagan, the titular Bonzo, who that year made an ill advised visit to Germany's Bitburg cemetery, the site of many Nazi graves. Though Johnny Ramone was a staunch conservative and Reagan supporter, the guitarist agreed to record the fierce rocker, which got the Ramones their most significant column, radio airplay to date and high placement on critics lists. In 1985, the single ranked fifth in that year's Paz and Jopp poll. On that same album, called Animal Boy, the Ramones also took a swipe at the spectacle of the charity mega single. It was a ripe target. 1985, after all, was the year of We Are the World a song the Ramones were very much not invited to sing.

[Casey Kasem]

Song.

[Chris Melanfi]

The Ramones take on the phenomenon, the platitudinous, sardonic Something to Believe in, which won solid rotation on MTV for its hilarious music video, a spoof of Hands Across America.

[Casey Kasem]

Won't you please lend a hand?

[Chris Melanfi]

In short, if the Ramones couldn't make themselves into pop stars, they were going to be pop's class clowns. We'll be right back. Talking Heads had gone from punk misfits to one of the most acclaimed bands in America, and thanks to their beefed up Speaking in Tongues lineup, they were now also a formidable live act. So when director Jonathan Demme offered to capture their Speaking in Tongues stage show on Facebook Film the band jumped at the chance. They named the movie, released in 1984, after a lyric from the funk rock single Girlfriend Is Better. They called it Stop Making Sense, As I probably don't need to tell you if you've been paying any attention. In 2023, stop making sense is now back in theaters to celebrate its 40th anniversary. You also don't need me to tell you to go see what is now widely considered the greatest concert film of all time. Seriously, go see it, preferably in imax. It's a legitimately amazing cinematic experience. Back in the 80s, however, stop making Sense was two things a decent box office performer and a live soundtrack lp, which was only a modest chart success at the time. It peaked at number 41 in 1984, lower than all of the five previous talking heads LPs. But stop making Sense was the long distance runner of their albums, serving as a de facto Talking Head's greatest hits years before the group put out any such compilation. Stop Making Sense spent nearly two years on the Billboard album chart, longer than any of Talking Heads albums by far, and it gradually went double platinum. In short, Stop Making Sense helped establish Talking Heads, those former New York City art rockers, as an American institution.

[Casey Kasem]

It.

[Chris Melanfi]

The band further explored this nationwide status on their next two LPs, which were both awash in kitschy Americana. 1985's Little Creatures was powered by a string of radio singles. None cracked the pop top 40, but all became staples on album rock radio, and their cutting edge videos won favor on MTV, including Road to Nowhere, a number 25 rock radio hit, The Perky and She Was, which reached number 11 on the rock chart and number 54 on the Hot 100 in an unusually long 20 week chart run, And the punchy Wake the Baby anthem Stay up late, a number 24 rock radio hit. For 1986's True Stories, talking Heads produced not just an album but a film of the same name, David Byrne's directorial debut. Perhaps predictably, it was an oddball movie, a series of vignettes in a fictional Texas town visited by a cowboy hat wearing stranger played by Byrne himself. The film was a box office flop. But the True Stories lp, which served as a pseudo soundtrack and doubled as a Talking Heads album, went gold and generated the group's last top 40 pop hit, Wild Wild Life, which reached number 25 on the Hot 100 in the fall of 86. By the late 80s, both sides, CBGB, the venue and the first generation of CBGB bands were entering their elder statesman phase. The New York City club, no longer associated with a scene or a coherent musical movement, was still incubating new bands. Earlier in the decade, CBGB had famously showcased the Beastie Boys when they were still a nascent punk band before they switched to rapping. And in 1987 CBGB hosted a two night festival by a collective of bands known as the Black Rock Coalition. Founded by Living Color guitarist Vernon Reed. The Bridge Sea Festival, which Reed cheekily gave the title Stalking Heads, gave a leg up to black rock in New York City more than a year before Living Color broke on the radio and MTV critic and BlackRock Coalition co founder Greg Tate later quipped to author Jesse Rifkin, that was probably the first time that many black people had been inside CBGP. After that our bands would regularly play CBs, unquote. As for the CBGB elders, in 1988 Patti Smith, now in her 40s, came out of retirement with her first album in nine years. Dream of Life was co produced by her husband Fred Sonic Smith. It was by the way, their only musical project together. Patty and Fred remained married for for six more years until Fred died of a heart attack in 1994. Patti Smith was welcomed back warmly by critics and even rock radio programmers who made Patty's fiery anthem People have the power, a number 19 album rock hit.

[Casey Kasem]

People have the power. People have the power. The power. People have the power.

[Chris Melanfi]

Speaking of rock radio, the music business had begun mainstreaming the so called alternative and college rock music that the CBGB bands had helped to spawn back in the 70s. When Billboard launched its Modern Rock chart in September 1988, Patti Smith was on the very first chart with her catchy Dream of Life track Up There Down There. Peaking at number six on that chart. Up There Down There became Smith's only top 10 hit on any Billboard list ever. The charts had finally caught up to cbgb.

[Casey Kasem]

The Winds Ablaze, Angel Talon.

[Chris Melanfi]

It's been so echoed, even the Ramones did well on the modern rock chart. The chart launched a bit too late to catch their duet with Blondie's Debbie Harry, a kind of CBGB veterans reunion called Go Lil Camaro Go. If the chart had existed in 1987, the Ramones Debbie Harry duet likely would have been a smash. However, when the Ramones recorded the title theme to the 1989 film adaptation of Stephen King's Pet Sematary, that was a modern rock smash. Peaking at number four in June of 89, the Ramones Pet Sematary single became their only top five hit on any Billboard chart ever.

[Casey Kasem]

I don't wanna be buried in a pet cemetery I don't want to live my life again.

[Chris Melanfi]

The modern rock chart also caught the twilight of Talking Heads. In 1988. The band just missed the chart launch with their final studio album, Naked. But Talking Head's final single, Sax and Violins, a one off track from the Naked Sessions that David Byrne completed for the 1991 Wim Vendors film Until the End of the World, actually topped the modern rock chart, reaching number one in February 1992. That same year, Television, the most seminal CBGB band of all, reformed and put out their first studio album in 14 years. Again, the Tom Verlaine led band had never had any kind of American chart hit, but on the modern rock chart, call Mr. Lee reached number 27 in 1992.

[Casey Kasem]

Call mustard, you know the code is broken.

[Chris Melanfi]

By the 90s, the influence of Generation CBGB was all over the charts. The alt rock band 10,000 Maniacs took their unplugged cover of Patti Smith's because the Night to number 11 on the Hot 100 in early 1994. That was two spots higher than Smith's version had reached in 1978. A British band from Oxford who initially called themselves On a Friday renamed themselves Radiohead after a deep cut from Talking Head's True Stories album. And a new generation of what you might call pure punk of the Ramones variety, led by bands like Offspring, Rancid and Green Day, overtook the modern rock and even the pop charts by 1994. This explosion for a new generation of punk came a bit too late for the Ramones themselves. They recorded one last album, the aptly titled adios amigos, in 1995. Still resentful of their historically poor chart fortunes, the band joked, well, maybe it wasn't a joke that they would only keep recording if the album did well on the charts. Unfortunately, Adios Amigos spent only two weeks on the Billboard 200 album chart, peaking at number 148. About the only consolation was the Ramones scored one final minor hit single from the set. Their cover of I Don't Want to Grow up by Tom Waits cracked the modern rock chart at number 30. What made Adios Amigos especially hard for the Ramones was Joey Ramones deteriorating health. He was diagnosed with lymphoma that year and succumbed to the disease six years later in 2001. Life expectancy in the Ramones turned out to be short. Joey died at 49. A year later, Dee Dee Ramone was found dead of a heroin overdose. He was just 50. Two years after that, Johnny Ramone died of prostate cancer at at 55. Original drummer Tommy Ramone survived the longest, succumbing to bile duct cancer at 65 in 2014. The story of Blondie turned out much happier. Debbie Harry and Chris Stein not only reformed the group in 1997, a 1999 Blondie single called Maria topped the UK chart and made the top 20 on Billboard's Adult Top 40 radio chart. After Talking Heads breakup, all of the members retreated to their solo and side projects for three decades. Other than a brief reunion at their 2002 Rock and Roll hall of Fame induction, they never played together again. David Byrne scored a handful of radio hits, many of them indebted to Latin and world music, starting with 1989's top 10 modern rock hit Dirty Old Town. By the 2000 and 20s, the estranged group members were beginning to talk again, and to reach back more overtly to their Talking Heads work. In his hit Broadway show American Utopia, Byrne actually revived several of the group's old hits on stage, including Once in a Lifetime, Road to Nowhere and Burning down the House.

[Casey Kasem]

Got to Be away Burning down the.

[Chris Melanfi]

House this presaged Talking Head's actual, actual reunion only for interviews not yet on stage in 2023 for the re release of Stop Making Sense. After years of bad blood, particularly between Byrne and the still married Tina Weymouth and Chris France, all four members are gingerly enjoying one another's company again. Given how the Ramones wound up up, the four heads appear grateful to all be healthy and able to enjoy their legacy. In a touching Pitchfork interview just last month, Tina Weymouth said, quote, we're just savoring the moment. We're so happy that it's resulted in this wonderful thing that's lasted 40 years, and we're not really looking too far into the future. We might be standing on the corner and a bus will knock us down. We're super glad we're alive. Unquote. What about cbgb? After years of struggles with New York's municipal infrastructure and some crippling rent hikes, the club finally shuttered in October 2006, nearly 33 years after Hilly Crystal first hung his iconic CBGB and OMFUG awning. The location, by the way, is now a John Varvatos clothing store. On the club's Last night in 06, Patti Smith and her band played and bid CBGB adieu from the stage.

[Casey Kasem]

We remember everything.

[Chris Melanfi]

Well.

[Casey Kasem]

Good night everybody. Farewell CBGB's 33 years. It's the same age as Jesus.

[Chris Melanfi]

As for Patti Smith, the so called godmother of punk is still performing to this day, almost a half century after she made her CBGB debut. Among her performances of recent years, one of the most Celebrated was a 2019 performance at New York's Public Theater with Stuart Copeland of the Police and a collaborative volunteer singing collective called Choir Choir Choir. The occasion was a benefit to raise awareness of immigrants struggling at the Mexican border, and so naturally the assembled masses performed Patti's anthem People have the Power. You might call the gig a Do It Yourself Happening very on brand for Pat Smith, even if those hundreds of singers never would have fit on Hilly Crystal's stage back in the 70s. Best of all, Patti and her new friends were singing on Lafayette street, just four blocks away from the Bowery.

[Casey Kasem]

That the people.

[Chris Melanfi]

I hope you enjoyed this episode of Hit Parade. Our show was written, edited and narrated by Chris Melanfi. That's me. My producer is Kevin Bendis. Kevin also produced the latest installment of our monthly Hit Parade the Bridge shows, which are available exclusively to Slate plus members. In our latest Bridge episode, I talked to New York City music venues expert Jesse Rifkin about how CBGB became the birthplace of punk and nurtured generations of bands. To sign up for Slate plus and hear not only the Bridge but all our shows the day they drop, visit slate.com hit parade plus Derek John is executive Producer of Narrative Podcasts and we had help from Joel Meyer. Alicia Montgomery is VP of Audio for Slate Podcasts. Check out their roster of [e-mail] podcasts. You can subscribe to Hit Parade wherever you get your podcasts, in addition to finding it in the Slate Culture feed. If you're subscribing on Apple Podcasts, please rate and review us while you're there. It helps helps other listeners find the show. Thanks for listening and I look forward to leading the hit parade, Back your way. Until then, keep on marching on the one. I'm Chris Melanfi.

[Casey Kasem]

People have the power People have the power People have the power It.