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- [00:00]
A
Foreign.
- [00:04]
B
So today we are talking about how to build a product universe tactics of product led branding. So Anna, I'm going to hand over to you because this is one of the topics that you've been writing about, you've been thinking about quite a bit. So tell me about what you mean by product universe and where your mind is.
- [00:23]
A
So this is how it actually started. It's based on my work at Banana Republic. And as Peter Free, when you start thinking that like hey, you can, you can build brand through cultural products, which is merchandising, collaborations, events, creative partnerships, content, brand codes and so on. But what actually really needs to happen is for marketing and merchandising to work really, really close together and to actually have such a definition of products, product ranges, collections, hero products, foundations, but then also classics, capsules, limited editions, collaborations that that becomes part of a brand's business plan and it becomes part of a brand strategy. And what I mean by that, it literally you can say hey, if our entire output, product output and most retailers add, add, add add solution to more consumption is more products, you know, so you end up with SKUs, which is, which are product numbers that are really long tail and you sometimes don't even know what is going on. And merchandisers look at their Excel spreadsheets, they look mostly at the product performance formas. Did it sell? Did it not sell? So this is building upon that, but then also looking at what are our hero products? What is the purest distillation, distillation of the brand? Can we use that as a father for collaborations? Can we use special materials? Can we have that? It's something that we do year over year over year, but reissue in different colors, different materials with different creative partners as part of different chem. What is our collection? What is that interpretation for seasonal of seasonal trends through our filter? And what are those foundational products that are, that go never out of stock? They're always there. And then what is the cultural impact of all of those? How do you build merch around it? How do you build collaborations around it, how do you build content around it? How do you create so sort of structure that says hey, if you're going to use all those different products to start the conversation with different members of the creative class with their key Personas, they're going to buy most of this. And all of what I just explained is relevant because it really helps you fine tune your financial plan. It really helps you fine tune how much money do you want to make each month, each quarter, each year and to go from that objective backwards and say we need X amount of hero products, we need X amount of collections, X amount of foundations. And this is how our promotional plan looks like. Heroes never go on sale. For example, foundation goes on sale after three months. Collections go after one month, never more than 30%. So let's unpack this further, but I first want to hear your experience.
- [03:31]
B
You know, one thing that was from the previous conversation that we had and because you and I come from slightly different career perspectives and backgrounds and in the past decade or so you've spent quite a bit of time in the fashion, luxury, retail world. And my background, part of it is that. But I don't necessarily exclusively focus in that industry just because, you know, we work with multiple clients. So we may have a fashion client, we may have a story.
- [04:02]
A
This is applicable beyond, it's applicable beyond parallel, it's applicable to all sorts. So I'll let you get this.
- [04:09]
B
Yeah. So I, I want to set the.
- [04:11]
A
Expectation to the audience that actually it can be, it can be applied to CPG as well.
- [04:17]
B
Yeah. So like the last time I, I want to unpack it from a, a non sexy, non fashion perspective a little bit. Yeah. So where my mind goes when I, even before this conversation when I was thinking about it, and I want to sort of use this conversation as a way to unpack how some products or some brands that are more utility driven that can have cultural influence. So an obvious sort of utility brand is tech. And something that everybody knows about is, let's say Google. Right. And because a company like Google, because we talked about Apple and you know, everybody talks about Apple, I want to stay away from Apple a little bit.
- [05:02]
A
Google, let's talk about a culture.
- [05:05]
B
Yeah, but it's got a universal products that they introduce over time and they try to. Every sizable tech brand with scale, they try to trap you as much as possible into that universe. Right. So Google, which started as a search engine company and then they went into email, they went into cloud computing, like, you know, drive and productivity tools like Calendar and Doc and so forth. Right. So they start with a. Maybe this is what you, this is a slightly different perspective because it's not necessarily a hero product, but they have, they have a Trojan horse first, right? Yeah. And then from there they find opportunities to, quote, unquote, invade into people's lives in different ways. So in Google's case, let's say the Trojan horse was search. And then people became used to or, oh, you know, let's quote, unquote, let's Google it. And then found Ways or opportunities to expand what was a little tiny speck in people's lives and found other ways to expand in that universe. And then before you. Well maybe not before you know it, but over a course of decade or, or even two decades now, like I'm so embedded into Google that it's going to be very difficult for me to step away from that universe. To go into say like the Microsoft universe.
- [06:53]
A
Correct. I think that's somewhat different, but I think let's kind of connect those two things.
- [06:58]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [06:59]
A
Because for me what you're talking about is basically how tech companies create network effects and how they create molds, like how they create high switching costs basically. And for you it's much. All those different products are more valuable. The more products you use, each individual product is more valuable. Google Calendar, Google Gmail, then search, then I don't know what else is there AI now Docs.
- [07:27]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [07:28]
A
Because the more data you share about yourself, the more tailored to you it is, you know, so it kind of switches what's really high because not only all your friends are there, but also like you spend so much time and effort on, on sharing that information so it's kind of more useful for you as you interact with it. So that's number one. But if you start looking at the product pyramid, I think it still can be applied because I can tell you there's some, maybe AI is their hero product because people who use it are maybe not every day and it's priced differently or maybe their cloud services and there's certain services, these are the products they make money. Maybe those are bits B services. Then their foundational products are what Trojan horse that you drive and something like that, which, which they can be like, oh, their collection. They're always adding something because they need to compete with everyone else. So this is a very blunt instrument, but I'm just trying to show you how. But then what is, I think what combines our perspectives is where the cultural products come in which is how does a Google surround each of their tech products with merch, collaborations, events. How do they go? How do they attract new people to Gmail, not just to product le marketing which is like you know at the beginning it was like all sent from iPhone or you know like, or add 5 rands referrals like that. That's product led marketing literally, which was like how do you have growth through those? But it's more about how do you actually participate in culture as Google. What is your cultural problem? How does like Gmail or AI or Drive or any of that. Does merch, for example, limited edition. Like, what does that mean? And I'm not talking about those, like, stupid merch. Those, like, balls that you can, like, squeeze. You know, it's kind of, oh, go with palace or, I don't know, supreme or, you know, high snobiety. And have a line of how Google look if it was a T shirt or a pair of sneakers.
- [09:39]
B
I think when it comes to, like, more functional brands or functional utility companies like Google. Right. I think the way they become part of culture is through behavior. So for instance, behavior or. Oh, no, no, user behavior. User behavior.
- [10:01]
A
Okay.
- [10:01]
B
User behavior. Yeah. So by. And then it. It can only happen to certain limited number of brands to have that cultural clout. Because I think in order for a user behavior to become culture, I think you need scale. I think. Absolutely.
- [10:25]
A
I think that even now, I know I like where you're going with that, but I think you don't even need such skill. You just need fans. You need a niche of those, like, almost. You almost need a lot of subcultures, which is way more realistic. Because look at the one mega trend. There are gazillion trends happening at the same time. Extreme quotes. But you could not. And then it dies down very quickly. So I think the same sort of social dynamic happens.
- [10:53]
B
Yeah. You know, because like, when you look at a Google, Facebook, you know, like, certain actions that people take when using those products. Right. They are like, searching or even just liking things or swiping. Those actions and behaviors become part of the cultural vernacular. So, like, oh, you know, do you swipe left? Do you swipe right? Wasn't a behavior that we used to have 15 years ago.
- [11:30]
A
Correct.
- [11:31]
B
Right.
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A
It has a value judgment, ethical component. Oh, like swipe, like swipe left. Like, no, you know, or, you know, So I do think. But you know what it reminds me of?
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B
Yeah.
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A
You know how people always say, oh, technology is neutral. It's how people use it. I don't. That's not true at all. Technology is never natural. It's always like a set of values is designed into it. Like, look at the AI now. It has human biases. Design.
- [11:59]
B
Very much so. Very much so. Yeah.
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A
You know what I mean? So even with, like Facebook design, privacy. So there is none. And the Apple came and designed privacy. So they're like, oh, look at us. We care about your privacy. Unlike all those other tech companies. Companies. You know what I mean? That's not random. It's design. And that was by design with swipe left. Swipe right. So first we design those values, aesthetics judgments, into technology, and then it influences us.
- [12:27]
B
Yeah.
- [12:28]
A
Back. One thing we look at algorithms, they're like. They're like sharing with us the most outrageous content. Like, they think that we are. Like, what works best is anger, hate, you know, like, strong reactions.
- [12:44]
B
I know that I mentioned that I didn't necessarily talk about Apple, but one of the things that. That came to my mind was that. And when you were talking about fans, Right. Way back when, when Apple introduced the ipod and then the. The headphones, the product had a very iconic white look. And at the time, it was very rare. And I mean, I remember this is like back in 2003, four or five, back then, when ipod first came out and people who bought the ipod had the white headphone and it kind of became a. Not so much a status symbol, but like a visible community of people who were. Because, like, at the time, like, Apple was a small player, you know, it wasn't the dominant player that it's become since then.
- [13:37]
A
No, absolutely. And I would say it is. It is a status symbol. And it was the best advertising Apple could have branding hope for. Because, like, even later, when they were. When they stopped doing, like, when they were like AirPods, you know how people would walk around the office with that.
- [13:55]
B
Yeah.
- [13:55]
A
And you're like, what? Like, why do you. You know, so it became like, like the first adopters. They're doctors. I mean, I think now everyone does it, but I think then we were like, wait, you know, like, you knew who bought it. People first round. Yeah.