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- [00:05]
Reina Moto
Well, Anna, good to see you. How are you? Oh, by the way, happy Valentine's Day.
- [00:08]
Anna Angelic
Oh, Happy Valentine's Day to all of you. That's true.
- [00:11]
Reina Moto
After this is done in the afternoon, I'm gonna have to get some flowers for my wifey.
- [00:16]
Anna Angelic
Oh, that's nice.
- [00:17]
Reina Moto
Yeah.
- [00:18]
Anna Angelic
Brian is in Miami, which is, like, in our signature session. We are spending it. We don't care about, of course.
- [00:34]
Reina Moto
Welcome to Hitmakers How Brands Influence Culture, where every other week we explore cultural influence and how brands create it.
- [00:41]
Anna Angelic
I'm Anna Angelic. I'm author of Hitmakers and the Business of Inspiration and a brand executive.
- [00:48]
Reina Moto
And I'm Reina Moto. I'm a creative entrepreneur and a founding partner of a global innovation firm based in New York, Tokyo, and Singapore called Ayanco.
- [00:56]
Anna Angelic
First of all, if you like what we are talking about, make sure that you like us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and YouTube, and pass it on to whoever you think you may like. And big shout out to Vanya Arcernov, our great producer, who makes sure that we sound amazing.
- [01:12]
Reina Moto
All right, let's get to it. So the topic that we are talking about, and it's a timely topic, especially in light of the super bowl that just happened about five days ago. So by the time this airs, it's about 10 days after the super bowl, and we're not necessarily talking about the event, but the role of Anna, what you call spectacles, and specifically spectacle or hype. So do you want to talk about just in general, what spectacle spectacles are and the role that they play, especially as they relate to brands?
- [01:45]
Anna Angelic
Absolutely. And I think that what's really important here is to distinguish spectacle and hype in relation to culture. And I feel that in the past 20 years, maybe since the 90s, the culture was built through hype, which means something that starts in a subculture. Supreme drops Virgil's Virgil blocks off white and other sort of 3% interventions, streetwear brands, food trends, and so on? Well, that was kind of something that started very small, and then slowly over time was built into something that the mainstream was hyped up about. But the necessary step is to first be very niche, very small, very analog, very offline, and very specific to a subculture or a community. Number one, spectacles started in mainstream. They're made maximum number of people and maximum attention for a very short period of time. So you have the spectacle of the Olympic Games last summer. You have spectacle of super bowl, which is traditional annual spectacle, and then. Then you have minor spectacles. There may be World cup that's coming up. And, like, mostly these are sporting events, but they also luxury fashion events in the form of the fashion shows, especially at LVM and especially with collaborations with, like, Rihanna on there or Pharrell's joining menswear and what he did for his inaugural show. So I think two formats that are very fitting to do different moments in culture. How do you think about it?
- [03:42]
Reina Moto
A couple of things. One is, and this move, a series of questions. Just unpack what we mean by hype versus spectacle and making sure that we're talking about the same thing. So hype could be a trend, whereas a spectacle. Do you associate spectacle with an event? Does it always have to be an event?
- [04:04]
Anna Angelic
It doesn't have to be an event, but what is important about spectacle is that it involves advertising, pr, celebrity, and media. Hype really involves a product, a behavior, mood, taste. Spectacle is completely manufactured by advertising media, PR machinery.
- [04:28]
Reina Moto
Right, yeah. So it's done with some kind of either motive or intention by somebody or some organization to create attention.
- [04:40]
Anna Angelic
It has to be states.
- [04:42]
Reina Moto
It has to be states.
- [04:43]
Brian
Yeah.
- [04:43]
Anna Angelic
So Olympic Games are staged. Pharrell fashion show was staged a couple of years ago.
- [04:49]
Brian
Yeah.
- [04:50]
Anna Angelic
Super bowl is staged. So. And. And it's covered by mass media and all sorts of media involve the celebrity. Yes.
- [04:59]
Brian
Yeah, yeah.
- [05:00]
Anna Angelic
So you said doesn't actually happen like hype does.
- [05:04]
Brian
Yeah.
- [05:04]
Reina Moto
Hyper hype could happen organically. It could also happen accidentally.
- [05:08]
Anna Angelic
Always. Exactly. You very rarely can engineer hype. You absolutely can. But then you're nearing the spectacle, because when you are a marketing media, then it becomes something that. That has more to do with. How should I say? It's like. It's more like advertising.
- [05:28]
Brian
Yeah, yeah.
- [05:29]
Anna Angelic
Something that is very organically cultural. Yes.
- [05:32]
Reina Moto
Do you think this is an old example, but do you think something like the Barbie movie couple years ago, was that a hype or was that a spectacle?
- [05:41]
Anna Angelic
Oh, that's spectacle as a spectacle. All the memes around that. It's anything that captures mass attention at one point of time.
- [05:50]
Brian
Yeah, yeah.
- [05:51]
Reina Moto
But in.
- [05:52]
Anna Angelic
That catches attention of the mainstream until it's over.
- [05:56]
Reina Moto
Right, right, right, right. But like in the case of, say, Barbie as a franchise and a Barbie as a movie, what ignited that spectacle was not a physical event like the Olympics or the super bowl, but it was a piece of IP or piece of content, I. E. The movie that was.
- [06:16]
Anna Angelic
So I also think it was a lot like red carpet. It was a lot. It was the entire marketing around it. So it doesn't need to. It has to be staged and everything About Barbie movie was staged and created.
- [06:32]
Reina Moto
Creative or to, to use the word manufactured.
- [06:35]
Anna Angelic
Yeah, push that cost inordinate amount of money.
- [06:38]
Brian
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [06:40]
Reina Moto
So just at the beginning, you know, as I mentioned, we, we had the super bowl last weekend. It was a, definitely a, a spectacle. Yeah, there was some hype around it before, but definitely after, especially the, the hype around the halftime and the feud between, you know, Kendrick Lamar and Drake and things like that. And just to talk about the Super Bowl a little bit, and I'm not a huge football fan and I don't even watch the Super Bowl. I could, I mean, I do, I care. Not really, to be honest. Not really. I could like if, you know, if it, if it wasn't in my life, I wouldn't necessarily miss it, but it's one of the very, very few mass media spectacles or mass media events that brands do tap into. And I might be biased, but this year, at least the talk or the chatter after the fact and then at least what I'm catching and what I'm hearing, I feel like 90% of the conversation this year is about the halftime show and Kendrick Lamar, you know, there was Taylor Swift last year was, was. She was kind of like the, the it girl, you know, she was the topic of the talk. But this year, you know, she even got booed I guess. And it's the, the, the spectacle that was the, the halftime and then maybe a little bit about different brands and you know, the, the commercials that, that air, that air during the event throughout. But the, the main topic is not even the game that happened between the two teams, but really only like 10, 15 minutes of the, that four hour ordeal that is catching all of the air, I feel like.
- [08:37]
Anna Angelic
Yeah, but that's always the case because the game itself, it's like it's artificially made to last that long because of that with everything that happens in between all the ads and so on. So when the game is good, of course the game is going to be talked about. This time the game was not good in a sense that you cleaned the house. So, you know, it was not like, I think it's like if the game is like, it's unfair to say, oh, but I do think that what made that half time so impactful was the mood was right for that kind of like the feud that you are referring to, the nature of that song and how controversial that was. And then Kendrick Lamar himself, himself, who is very outspoken and then those Celine bell bottoms that he was wearing.
- [09:25]
Brian
Yeah, yeah.
- [09:26]
Anna Angelic
And then also Serena Williams.
- [09:28]
Reina Moto
Yes.
- [09:29]
Anna Angelic
That the dance a few years back and was really like, oh, immature, unprofessional. But now that was kind of the main thing.
- [09:35]
Reina Moto
Right, right, right, right.
- [09:36]
Anna Angelic
I think it was like a mix of a lot of different things that kind of made it like the most talked about saying a lot of entry points into that. And.
- [09:45]
Reina Moto
And I thought what I found interesting, again, like, I could. I don't care too much about the super bowl and I don't pay dumb. I mean, I pay some attention to the TV commercials and I pay some attention to the halftime show, but I feel like this year just the depth and the complexity of the halftime show and what was embedded into the performance and culture around it, I found it actually quite interesting from a culture perspective and sort of the state, not just the. The event as a spectacle, but the ripple effect both in terms of, you know, hype as well as like the historical context of it, was it made me think more than the previous super bowl games or the halftime shows. And it. I was trying to think. I was thinking to myself, like, oh, when was the last time that an event, a national and or sometimes international event, like the Olympics, let's say, a manufactured event, made me think not just the event and the superficial, like. Like the feud between the two celebrities, I could care less, but like the cultural context or even the historical context and either subtle or explicit statements that the artist, the, you know, the musician or even the producers around it, around the event was making. I found it interesting. And I found myself like, googling things and trying to find the layers of meaning. And then again, like, I can't remember when the last time that I came across what is a piece of entertainment, but actually making me think the larger context around it.
- [11:32]
Anna Angelic
I think that's also the outcome of what kind of culture you pay attention to just in your life. Because for like, you know, there are a lot of subcultures where you can get like draw into like that you. You. I know you said you don't care about feud among celebrities and so on off obviously, but I think that Kendrick Lamar in itself is a figure that is not worthy of attention just in general. And I think that now he himself went from just maybe music culture into mainstream culture. So I think that is something that you are reacting to as probably a lot of others like you who were not necessarily that steeped in the music.
- [12:15]
Brian
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [12:17]
Anna Angelic
You know, so that's. But again, that's like also byproduct of that spectacle. The other thing that I think it's important to unpack here is basically like. And this is not new, like last year, year before and so on. They've been talking about how sports is the last spectacle, mass spectacle that actually unites people in a sense that you don't have arts or design or even entertainment, even the big movies anymore. It's kind of like, well, this is one thing that we can all agree on. This is the thing that globally and, and. And individually, we can say, hey, we appreciate this performance and driving and sort of the drive and the entire emotion around sports. It's like, so human. It's indisputably universal. I think we had, like, events before that, like Grammys or even Oscars. Not in past 20 years, but, you know, there were events that were film festivals, music festivals. They played that role. But I don't think that's like, yeah, it's not the case anymore.
- [13:26]
Reina Moto
Were you in the US during the Olympics last summer, or were you in Europe here? You were here.
- [13:33]
Anna Angelic
I was in Paris before Olympics and then after, but not during.
- [13:39]
Reina Moto
Yeah, so I was in Japan last summer.
- [13:42]
Anna Angelic
Okay.
- [13:43]
Reina Moto
Between July and the first week of August. So when the Olympics were happening. And it is a spectacle, but it's kind of a different spectacle. The way that the Olympic Games are broadcast in Japan is very different from the way it's be. It's broadcast in the U.S. in the U.S. you know, the network, it's a. It's an advertising event, right? So, like, every five minutes, there's a commercial break. And I find Olympics unwatchable in the U.S. because it, like, every three minutes, the commentators in the announcers are making a big deal about whatever. And whereas in Japan, it's broadcast through the national television network, which is like BBC of Japan, called nhk, and there are no commercials. So you can actually watch the sports. You can actually watch the Games. So I was, like, staying up past midnight every day to watch the Olympics because you can actually watch it. Whereas, you know, four years ago, five years ago, when I was in the U.S. i mean, he was just unbearable. And, you know, no wonder young people aren't watching the Olympics on tv, but, like, the TV stations are having to hire influencers to distribute the content. But like, when in the US did you notice that the Olympics were, as a spectacle, did you feel that it had a cultural impact or was it just, you know, what, like, it was kind of in the background and people sort of forgot about it?
- [15:22]
Anna Angelic
No, it had immense cultural impact, but no one watches tv. No one watches, you know, like, Olympics on tv. And very few people were actually There, I mean, people who are like, in Europe, they were. But I think it's not a point that you watch Olympics on TV and it's a spectacle. No, that's the whole thing. It's like an event that is happening, but there, because the nature of social media is such that we communicate through memes, through snippets of visual content. That's what made it really global, is how those moments, like French pole jumper, or.
- [16:01]
Reina Moto
I do remember that.
- [16:04]
Anna Angelic
Exactly. That were widely shared and those were the ones that actually got so many people into it because they were so human. And I think that point. What point? Oh, I can watch uninterrupted, you know, for. For an hour and enjoy, you know, like synchronized swimming.
- [16:25]
Brian
Yeah, yeah.
- [16:26]
Reina Moto
But I guess what I'm saying is that like. Like the. The pole voter or the memes are sort of like the snippets, you know, just a tiny sliver of a much, much bigger event. Right. And those are, yeah, definitely, like enjoyable, memeable moments. Personally, like, if I wanted to enjoy the game, I find it impossible. But I'm talking about the Olympics specifically. I find it really difficult to do it. Even, you know, if you're not sitting in front of a tv, even on mobile, they make it difficult to watch the. The purity of the games.
- [17:08]
Brian
Yeah.
- [17:09]
Reina Moto
And then like, super bowl is kind of the same thing. Like, you know, football, you said the game itself is almost the. The side dish.
- [17:16]
Anna Angelic
It's the main dishes. So I do think that was a similar thing with the Olympics with the opening ceremony being. But then also, like, I think very few people are going to be like, you have soccer fans, for example, they're going to watch tennis fans, or you have synchronized swimming fans, you know, and they're going. They're going to find the content they want to watch in easy direction uninterruptedly and so on.
- [17:40]
Reina Moto
Yeah.
- [17:40]
Anna Angelic
But they're very few and far in between. And when you think about that and you say, hey, there is again that fragmentation of who is interested in what. I think like people are interested because that's what everyone else was talking about. So those social objects that connected people. And I do think that was the whole idea. We are now something is happening now that entire world is paying attention to and how it's paying attention to, because we are sharing those snippets of content. So again, almost like the games, like, you never send. Like NBA never sends the best players. Even like soccer, they never send their best players because, you know, it's. There is summer, they're Resting, like you don't want them to get injured in something like.
- [18:25]
Reina Moto
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [18:26]
Anna Angelic
So the value is symbolic. Yeah, don't go there to see the actual record breaking xyz. No, you go there to see who are the heroes. You see, like what, like, who are like athletes sponsored by Adidas, by Nike, by own running and so on. That's what almost most like, you create new celebrities, you create new personalities that you root for.
- [18:53]
Reina Moto
One thing that you mentioned earlier, sports is the last thing that we can agree on. I would also say, I agree with that point. I would also say that you don't have to agree on things, but you can share the love for the same thing. So, you know, let's say politically people have completely different views, but say the team that they root for is the shared.
- [19:21]
Anna Angelic
Well, right, like we agree that.
- [19:23]
Reina Moto
Right, right.
- [19:24]
Anna Angelic
That this is worthwhile pursuit and you.
- [19:27]
Reina Moto
Know something so you can kind of transcend the differences.
- [19:30]
Anna Angelic
There's nothing divisive about humans driving and pushing the boundaries. I didn't mean. There is nothing to agree on. When you're watching two, you know.
- [19:39]
Reina Moto
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [19:40]
Anna Angelic
Teams or when you're watching someone breaking a record in running or something. Yeah, it's kind of like that. The like agrees. Wrong word. You're right. It's like unifies us.
- [19:51]
Reina Moto
Yeah, it definitely unifies. So other than sports, I mean, we talk about, we talked about something like Barbie as a spectacle. But were there or are there any other spectacles? Well, you know, fashion show, like the Fashion week, for instance, that's a spectacle that also may be changing in terms of the way it's being presented these days. But what are other types of spectacles that you pay attention to?
- [20:13]
Anna Angelic
Well, there is entertainment spectacles. There used to be red carpet awards shows. And again the same thing. People don't. People want moments, they want humor moments that are happening throughout the ceremony. Who won, who lost? How did they react to it? They go on red carpet. What did, you know, they don't, you know, so that's kind of like Oscars used to be a big spectacle, but again, I'm talking like a different generation.
- [20:36]
Reina Moto
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like 20 years ago.
- [20:39]
Anna Angelic
And then you have art fairs as spectacles. Then you have like feats of like, oh, the guy who walked between two twin towers when twin towers were still there.
- [20:50]
Reina Moto
Oh, yeah.
- [20:51]
Anna Angelic
They were kind of like the moments that, that everyone pays attention or the Red Bull.
- [20:56]
Reina Moto
Yes, yeah, that's true. Yes.
- [20:58]
Anna Angelic
And Elon Musk, the Red Bull sends a rocket in space or somewhere, you know, so they were like kind of those moments when you kind of put a lot of money in it. Like, I think Formula one is becoming insane spectacle in the United States. It is, you know, because they have, like, now amazing sponsors and LVMA part of it, and there are synergies there, but then the amount of money spend on it, like Las Vegas and then Miami, that is becoming sort of.
- [21:29]
Brian
Yeah.
- [21:30]
Reina Moto
What about hype? Hype? You said they happen. Hype happens more organically and somehow even accidentally. But can you manufacture a hype?
- [21:42]
Anna Angelic
Obviously. But then that's like a PR and market thing. You can manufacture. If you put a lot of money behind it, that's it. It's going to last as long as you're putting the money in. I would love to, if I can remember any hype that was sort of engineered in a sense and actually took off. You know, like, a lot of brands today are trying to create hype because they're. They're paying or who are the right content creators, who are the right influencers? What are the right seeding context. That's hype. Because 99% of brands don't have money for a spectrum.
- [22:18]
Reina Moto
Right, right, right, right.
- [22:19]
Brian
Yeah, yeah.
- [22:20]
Reina Moto
So in terms of engineering hype, would you say something like the presidential campaign, a hype? I mean, there's a lot of money.
- [22:29]
Anna Angelic
Again, I would not confuse the hype with the marketing campaign and PR push, because you can hype certain things up. And yes, I think there was a hype around Kamala's nomination for a minute.
- [22:45]
Reina Moto
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [22:46]
Anna Angelic
But that died down.
- [22:48]
Reina Moto
It died down. Yeah.
- [22:50]
Anna Angelic
You know, like, if you have a hype of around new sneaker releases, you have a hype around new movie. You know, you can have a hype around the book, you can have a hype around the person, but it's not a hype if it lasts only a month.
- [23:07]
Reina Moto
What's a recent hype that. That you think was successful, whether it was engineered or not? Is there hype?
- [23:13]
Anna Angelic
I think there is a lot of hype around on running in a really best possible way or like around their shoes. But that's like overnight success, 15 years in the making.
- [23:26]
Brian
Yeah.
- [23:27]
Anna Angelic
You know, and I do think that there is a hype around their new. They're like, oh, they're Roger Federer, the Elmo campaign. So I think they're one of those rare brands that people are rooting for.
- [23:39]
Reina Moto
Sure, sure, sure, sure.
- [23:40]
Anna Angelic
Again, that doesn't happen unless they had the product. What do you think? What are you.
- [23:44]
Reina Moto
So on that point, though, do you differentiate between Hype. And where's the line between where does marketing end and where does hype begin?
- [23:54]
Anna Angelic
When people organically, authentically, uncalled for recommend each other a product and they profess love without being paid to do that.
- [24:06]
Brian
Yeah, yeah.
- [24:07]
Anna Angelic
When they say, oh my God, I love Elmo or oh my God, I love like Cloud too, you know, when they're telling each other that, sure, sure, sure, sure, sure. But especially I think hype is going to become even more important now that we have analog offline members only. Secret things. Mainstream is for spectacles, for marketing. And then hype is like, oh, you heard from someone about this restaurant that has amazing food. There is no, you can't make. That's where the hype is.
- [24:40]
Reina Moto
Yeah, this, this one's a little bit. So when you, when you asked me a hype, an example of a hype, it's a little bit a couple years old, but when Uniqlo. Uniqlo is a mini bag.
- [24:53]
Brian
Yeah.
- [24:54]
Reina Moto
That they didn't put a lot of marketing behind it. They didn't spend it, they didn't spend any money on it. Marketing. And it was one or two different TikTokers, not planned, but they sort of hyped up the product and it became those videos, two videos became around the same time, unrelated to each other, massively viral. And the sales took off like you wouldn't believe. It's the most successful product I think that Uniqlo has ever had. And this was in 2022 or 2021. And yeah, the hype is not quite at the same level, but it's still selling like crazy for them.
- [25:38]
Brian
Yeah.
- [25:39]
Reina Moto
And they didn't put any money behind it. And what's, and by the way, this is an accidental hype, not an engineer hype. What's, what's peculiar or what's interesting is that it was two years after the product was released. So the product was available in 2019, 19 or 2020. And it took about two years for a couple of girls to discover. Oh, this is, you know, so it looks small but you can put so much stuff in it. And then it erupted, this hype and it's lasted for quite a while. For about two years or so.
- [26:16]
Brian
Yeah.
- [26:16]
Reina Moto
Maybe it's not being talked about at the same level, but still it's one of the best, best selling products on their, on their site, you know. So that's one example.
- [26:26]
Anna Angelic
Yeah, yeah.
- [26:27]
Reina Moto
So I think just to wrap up what's, what's, what's interesting about this conversation, spectral versus hype, Skeptics, skeptical I'm skeptical about spectacle. No, no, no. Spectacle is manufactured and it usually centers around ad, pr, media events, and those are engineered sort of top down approach. Whereas hype tends to be more organic, starting with subculture, people sharing the memes, the little things, and then bottom up, ground swelling. And then maybe when the hype is over, that's when media starts to notice, oh, this thing was cool. And then, you know, by that point, people have moved down to another hype. But yeah, I think this juxtaposition of spectacle being an engineered top down approach versus hype being a ground up, underground approach, that that's organic. And I think that the key is how do you engineer hype? That's probably the secret that a lot of people are trying to just.
- [27:36]
Anna Angelic
Because I think the most important thing about hype is that it comes from a genuine love for a product idea, trend, esthetics, look, personality. So it's a genuine idea that, that a lot of people share and then media comes and amplifies it. Spectacle is like that. It's telling you what to pay attention to. It's telling you what, what to like.
- [27:58]
Reina Moto
Right.
- [27:59]
Anna Angelic
Grabbing your attention. One is like, you pay attention because you identify with it.
- [28:05]
Brian
Yeah.
- [28:06]
Anna Angelic
And the other is you grab attention because you can't escape it.
- [28:09]
Reina Moto
All right, shall we go to the hit list?
- [28:11]
Anna Angelic
Yes.
- [28:12]
Reina Moto
Should I go first?
- [28:13]
Anna Angelic
Sure.
- [28:15]
Reina Moto
Well, you asked me to go first last time. All right. So my hit list is related to the topic, the very topic we just talked about. Do you know who Hamish Hamilton is? So I didn't know who he was, and I looked up. So he was the director of the halftime show for the Super Bowl.
- [28:32]
Brian
Yeah.
- [28:33]
Reina Moto
And like I said earlier, I did find this year's halftime show more interesting intellectually and academically than I ever have been interested in in a halftime show ever. Because it just had more layers to it than any of the previous shows that at least I can recall. And so I looked up, you know, who produced the halftime show for super bowl, and the two names that came up, one was Hamish Hamilton, who's a director of, like, real events, and he's been directing halftime shows, Oscars, those spectacles. And then he's often paired with Jesse Collins, who's a super producer, entertainment producer, who's also a long time event producer, who's produced halftime shows of the last few Super Bowls as well as other shows. So again, they're not necessarily household names. Obviously, I had to look them up. And I was very intrigued by the creative production aspect of the halftime show, more so than I ever have been in the previous 20 years that I paid attention to super bowl. So that's my hit list.
- [29:43]
Anna Angelic
And for me, again related is that a lot of people were praising that Nike ad and in a sense it does make a comeback for Nike at least.
- [29:57]
Brian
Yeah.
- [29:57]
Anna Angelic
In terms of putting athletes at the center, like them being the heroes and sort of positioning Nike, who is facilitating that. But like let the heroes speak for themselves. And it was. While it was not terribly new in terms of format or storytelling, it really resonated the most, which is something that Nike has not done in a really long time. Time.
- [30:23]
Reina Moto
Yeah.
- [30:23]
Anna Angelic
And I just think it's noteworthy speaking of the ads because super bowl ads you have on Running Head, Elmo and Federer and that was very cute. But then Nike was like, hey guys, we're back staking the ground, you know.
- [30:38]
Reina Moto
Yeah, I, I didn't watch all of the ads. I watched a couple of them, the Nike one. I totally agree with you that it's not necessarily new in terms of the way they've done these types of commercials in the past. It's, it's actually a very. And I, I say this with respect because I know a lot of people who work at Widen and Nike, but it's somewhat based on a formula that's worked for them before. Yeah, but I don't mind, I didn't mind it at all. The ad was so, so I thought it was, it was so powerful. I watched it so many times. I posted on LinkedIn. And it's interesting that some people, not a lot, but few people, and I don't mean to make this about male versus female kind of thing, but a few women said that it didn't do it for them and some of them even said that they found it condescending.
- [31:24]
Anna Angelic
Which I, that's just strange. I didn't, I found it, I found it like right at the heart of the matter, I thought so it leads owns words. And so I just think that they really like when you take the format out of it. It's almost like you can be more innovative if you repeat the format, if you don't worry about like you know, form of innovation. So it, it just felt like very true to who those, those women are as athletes and people.
- [31:53]
Reina Moto
Yeah.
- [31:54]
Anna Angelic
So it's very modern in a sense. You know, it felt like something that they would do on a Tick Tock video. You know, they just did it in this ad format.
- [32:01]
Brian
Yeah.
- [32:02]
Reina Moto
I mean it had been 27 years since the last time that Nike aired a Super bowl spa back in like 1998.
- [32:08]
Anna Angelic
Wow.
- [32:09]
Reina Moto
You know, and I'm glad that was.
- [32:11]
Anna Angelic
Successful and it at least it seems to have been successful. Comeback after 27 years. In terms of reaction.
- [32:19]
Brian
Yeah.
- [32:20]
Reina Moto
I'd be curious to see if this hype would last or become a hype.
- [32:25]
Anna Angelic
You know, that's a great point.
- [32:26]
Brian
Yeah.
- [32:27]
Reina Moto
Three months, six. Six months from now, you know, where is Nike in terms of their business? So we can revisit that.
- [32:33]
Anna Angelic
We can revisit that. But that's a great point and a fantastic way to wrap this conversation up. Thanks for everyone who's been listening again than to Vanya, our producer. If you like the show, like and share it, we are on Spotify, Apple, podcasts and YouTube. Thank you so much, Ray.
- [32:50]
Reina Moto
Only. Only five stars. Only five stars.
- [32:52]
Anna Angelic
Five stars only guys. Five stars.
- [32:54]
Reina Moto
That's right. All right, thank you. See you in two weeks.
- [32:56]
Anna Angelic
Until next time.