Why Brands Need Creative Strategy

Summary

Hitmakers: How Brands Influence Culture Episode: Why Brands Need Creative Strategy
Hosts: Rei Inamoto & Ana Andjelic
Release Date: January 23, 2025

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of Hitmakers: How Brands Influence Culture, hosts Ana Andjelic, a seasoned brand executive and author, alongside Renee Moto, a creative entrepreneur and founding partner of Ayanco, delve deep into the pivotal role of creative strategy in modern branding. Through engaging dialogue, they explore why creativity surpasses mere efficiency and how it serves as a foundational process within organizations striving to make cultural impacts.

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Defining Creative Strategy

Ana Andjelic sets the stage by outlining the core components of creative strategy. She emphasizes that creativity is not just an output but an essential approach for brands aiming to stand out in saturated markets.

"Creativity is a must-have, but not in a sense which is my second pillar of it being an output. It's a process which means that everyone in the organization needs to be creative." [04:00]

She articulates that creative strategy hinges on two primary pillars:

1. Creativity Beats Efficiency: In an era where mass production and efficiency-driven models dominate, creativity emerges as the differentiator that leads to remarkable outcomes.
2. Creativity as a Process: Creativity should permeate every level of an organization, fostering a culture where problem-solving and innovative thinking are ingrained in daily operations.

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Creativity vs. Efficiency

The conversation transitions to the tension between creativity and efficiency. Ana argues that current business models often prioritize efficiency, leading to uninspired and repetitive results.

"Drive for efficiency leads to unremarkable results, so basically, what I'm saying is creativity is not nice to have. Creativity is a must have." [04:00]

They discuss how brands like Hermes excel by prioritizing creative output over sheer volume, whereas companies chasing quick scalability struggle to maintain cultural relevance.

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Organizational Challenges

Renee Moto and Vanya Arsenov join the dialogue to explore the internal obstacles organizations face in fostering creativity. A significant barrier highlighted is the incentive structures that reward efficiency over innovative thinking.

"They're so backwards that it was kind of like, oh, don't worry about it. Seriously, just do your thing." [14:15]

Ana underscores the importance of aligning incentives with creative goals to motivate employees across all departments to contribute creatively, not just those in traditionally creative roles.

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Case Studies and Examples

The hosts enrich their discussion with real-world examples illustrating successful and failed attempts at integrating creative strategy.

1. Banana Republic’s Vintage Shop Initiative
   Ana recounts her experience at Banana Republic, where the introduction of a vintage shop required creative problem-solving across supply, production, and merchandising.

   "It's not like the idea is a great idea. Everyone has great ideas. It's actually creativity in problem solving of supply, production, and merchandising." [06:20]

2. Asics’ Turnaround Strategy
   Renee shares a transformative case where Asics reversed declining sales by forming a cross-functional SWAT team focused on developing a hit product. This strategic alignment of different departments fostered a culture of creativity that led to unprecedented revenue growth.

   "Those three things were the ingredients of creative strategy." [19:14]

3. Nintendo’s Sustained Creativity
   Highlighting Nintendo, Renee illustrates how continuous innovation and adapting to market changes over a century have kept the brand relevant.

   "They've been able to sustain their creativity over so many years. It's not just in the last 10 or 20 years, it's for the past 100 years." [26:28]

4. Toraya’s Craftsmanship and Branding
   Renee introduces Toraya, a Japanese brand renowned for its traditional Wagashi pastries, demonstrating how craftsmanship combined with effective branding can create enduring appeal.

   "They have all like innovative materials. But those small brands… they're walking the walk in terms of sustainability." [31:35]

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Creativity in Different Industries

The discussion broadens to examine how various industries harness creative strategy beyond fashion. Brands like Tesla and Apple are debated regarding their current creative standing, with Ana expressing skepticism about Apple’s ongoing creativity despite its brand value.

"I don't think Apple is a creative organization anymore... But smaller brands, I would say, some of those smaller brands…" [21:27]

They also explore the role of creativity in the restaurant industry, citing Ferran Adrià’s El Bulli as an example of innovative culinary strategy, albeit noting its eventual transition to an educational institution due to financial viability challenges.

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Impact of Creativity on Business Success

Ana and Renee assert that creativity directly influences business success by enabling brands to resonate culturally and adapt swiftly to market shifts. They argue that companies organized around creative strategies are better positioned to create hit products and maintain relevance.

"Brands that redefine not just what kind of creative campaign I'm going to build, but how am I going to… reach a new audience segment, add a new channel…" [05:58]

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Key Takeaways

As the episode concludes, both hosts distill their insights into actionable takeaways for brands:

1. Creativity as a Strategy: Embrace creativity not just in specific departments but as an organizational ethos.
2. Original Thought and Skillful Execution: Successful creativity combines innovative ideas with the capability to execute them effectively.
3. Process Over Siloes: Foster cross-functional collaboration to ensure creative strategies are implemented cohesively.
4. Adaptability: Maintain a nimble approach to respond rapidly to cultural shifts and market demands.

Ana Andjelic: "Creativity is not the output; it's the approach." [33:26]
Rei Inamoto: "Creativity is a combination of original thought and skillful action." [34:02]

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Conclusion

In this episode of Hitmakers, Ana Andjelic and Renee Moto provide a nuanced exploration of why creative strategy is indispensable for brands aiming to influence culture meaningfully. Through insightful discussions and illustrative case studies, they underscore that fostering a culture of creativity—where innovative thinking and effective execution coexist—is crucial for sustained success in today’s dynamic market landscape.

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Notable Quotes

• Ana Andjelic: "Creativity is a must-have, but it's a process which means that everyone in the organization needs to be creative." [04:00]
• Rei Inamoto: "Creativity is a combination of original thought and skillful action." [34:02]
• Ana Andjelic: "Adaptability and creative problem-solving are what keep brands relevant." [19:14]
• Rei Inamoto: "Any organization that's able to come up with original thoughts and execute them skillfully are the ones that win." [34:02]

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Connect with Hitmakers

For more insights on how brands shape culture, subscribe to Hitmakers on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts. If you enjoyed this episode, please leave a five-star review!

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This summary is based on the transcript provided and aims to encapsulate the key discussions and insights shared by Ana Andjelic and Rei Inamoto in the episode "Why Brands Need Creative Strategy."

Transcript

[Anna Angelic]

And then the guy shows up with like a mess thief, like this like service dog. And I'm like, at which point does Delta say, enough, you're not getting a bear on that thing. That dog was so big.

[Reina Moto]

And here, wait, so somebody was trying to get the dog into the cabin.

[Anna Angelic]

They did get the dog and I was 5B and then 5A, hence my stomach because they were next to me. Anyway, the dog was fine, this cute dog. So next thing is like giraffe coming.

[Reina Moto]

Giraffe coming onto the flight. That's crazy. Welcome to Hitmakers How Brands Influence Culture. Where every other week Anna and I explore cultural influence and how brands create it. I. I'm Reina Moto. I'm a creative entrepreneur and also a founding partner of an innovation firm called Ayanco based in New York City.

[Anna Angelic]

And I'm Anna Angelic and I am a brand executive and author. My new book, how Brands Influence Culture is out at Cosmic Magazines in New York. Apparently Ali told me bring 20 more copies because it sold out completely and on Amazon every two weeks. Ray and I talk about what. Who are the brands that make hits and who are those they don't and why. Who. What influences the difference between the two. And we have our lovely producer, Vanya Arsenov, who is also from Serbia, but from a part where people are much, much nicer.

[Reina Moto]

All right, maybe we can talk, we can, we can create an episode about that. I would love to get some cultural of Serbia.

[Anna Angelic]

Well, if you like our conversations, we covered everything from product led branding to trends and predictions to what makes a great cultural product. You can leave us a review and five stars because reviews come only as five stars on Spotify and on Apple podcast. Thank you for listening as well as YouTube and YouTube. Thank you, Ray.

[Reina Moto]

All right, so by the way, your book, I have not gotten a copy yet.

[Anna Angelic]

Well, not sold out.

[Reina Moto]

What? I want a bad partner. What a bad podcast partner I am.

[Anna Angelic]

Yeah, no, don't worry. I'll give you a copy and I'll. I'll sign it.

[Reina Moto]

Yes, please do. Please do.

[Anna Angelic]

So it's special.

[Vanya Arsenov]

Yeah.

[Reina Moto]

So you know you had your opening or book launch in Paris.

[Anna Angelic]

Yes.

[Reina Moto]

And you have a couple more events coming up.

[Anna Angelic]

Yes, I have a New York 1 TBD. The date London is. They told me, please stop promoting it. We have hundred people. Oh the limit. So I can't say it's. It's hosted by list on January 24th.

[Reina Moto]

Okay.

[Anna Angelic]

So those who are SVP that did others too bad come to New York.

[Vanya Arsenov]

Yes.

[Anna Angelic]

And then Melbourne and Sydney actually In May.

[Reina Moto]

Oh, no way. Wow.

[Vanya Arsenov]

Wow.

[Anna Angelic]

Yeah, it's global, baby.

[Reina Moto]

Global, baby. That's right. All right, well, maybe I can help you promote it in Japan.

[Anna Angelic]

Oh, that would be lovely. I would love that. Thank you so much. Maybe you are there at the beginning or end of May, so, you know, I could be.

[Reina Moto]

I could be.

[Anna Angelic]

Let's talk. Let's talk when I'm there.

[Reina Moto]

That's right. That's right. All right, so we are talking about creative strategy. So this is a topic that you and I talked about in the past. Not on, you know, on the show, but just in general. Hey, you know, this is a topic that we should definitely cover. You did write your analysis sometime last year, I think, about creative strategy and why, why brands need creative strategy. So do you want to give your quick primer on what you mean by creative strategy and a little premise behind this topic?

[Anna Angelic]

Yes, and I'll be very short because I want us to get into it. So there are two pillars. One is that creativity beats efficiency. And that means that the current business models across cultural industries, from agencies to retail to hospitality to entertainment, are made more, more, more kind of create as as much cultural output as possible. If you go on Netflix, the number of titles that have girl name is like Girl with a horn or horse girl, tall girl, school girl, girl in the back girl, you know, unhinged girl, you know, it's kind of like drive for efficiency leads to unremarkable results. So basically what I'm saying is not creativity is nice to have. Creativity is a must have, but not in a sense which is my second pillar of it being an output. It's a process which means that everyone in organization needs to be creative. And no, that doesn't mean that your financial controller needs to be creative like God forbid, but that there is a creative approach to problem solving. And I'll give you an exa examples now that I establish this framework. Creativity beats efficiency. Because companies that are succeeding today, like I know luxury fashion, Hermes product, they put creative out out there. Brands that are chasing quick releases and, and a scale of products and market situation are not doing so well at this time. Brands that redefine not oh, what kind of creative campaign I'm going to build. But no, no, no, how am I going to. Why is this a problem? And how can I create a re approach, reviving a brand, growing the market, reaching a new audience segment, adding a new channel and so on?

[Vanya Arsenov]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Reina Moto]

And I think on that point, creativity, I mean one of the obvious but important points is that it's not a department or it's not a specific job title. It shouldn't be technically, but it's more of a mindset or even the culture of the organization that fosters creativity.

[Anna Angelic]

Absolutely. And like, rather than us talking, I'll give you a specific example. When I was at banana in 2021, we did vintage shop. And look, it's 25. A lot of brands have done a vintage shop since then, but that time, a brand that scale, it was just not something that you can pull. Pull off. Yeah, but we did it. And you know why we did it? Because it's not like idea is a great idea. Everyone has great ideas. Ideas are everywhere. But it's actually creativity in problem solving of supply, production and merchandising. Because SVP of production page, who is now at worry and Kurt, if I remember correctly, on her team, they were able to figure out, how are we going to label those vintage products that we scouted to drilling and put it in the warehouses together with everything else. And then merchants figured out, how are we going to put it in the system? What skills are we going to give? And that actually enabled the execution in the real world. The visual merchandising team did the Real Experience Retail experience team did the E Commerce experience team and E Commerce Design. But it was really solving the problem of where does it sit in a warehouse.

[Reina Moto]

Yeah. Creativity. The word creativity, or the word creative as an adjective, is what I call a suitcase word, meaning that.

[Anna Angelic]

Okay, everyone, you need to read Ray's post about the future of creativity, the one you wrote six months ago.

[Reina Moto]

Which one?

[Anna Angelic]

I don't know. You said the suitcase word and then I got attacked for it.

[Reina Moto]

You got attacked for it?

[Anna Angelic]

It was on my sociology business.

[Reina Moto]

Oh, that's right. That's right. Yes. That one was a bit more specific to not just creativity, but design.

[Anna Angelic]

Oh, okay.

[Vanya Arsenov]

Yeah.

[Reina Moto]

And then, because you published it for me, and then somebody responded to you.

[Anna Angelic]

And I was like, how do you deal with this?

[Reina Moto]

Yes. And then you were like, oh, you know what? The author of this article is not me, by the way.

[Anna Angelic]

I want to give you the respect.

[Reina Moto]

No, no, no, no, no. I appreciate that. By the way, I did end up reaching out to the individual and I actually invited to have a conversation on Zoom and I had a chat with him.

[Anna Angelic]

Was it good?

[Reina Moto]

It was. It was totally fine. It's. It's funny. I mean, yeah, I know this is a tangent, but that kind of discussion is so much better, like if you have a direct conversation as opposed to just purely writing.

[Anna Angelic]

Oh, my God, always.

[Reina Moto]

Yeah, like it can get out of control but yeah, it end up being a very good conversation.

[Anna Angelic]

I know, but you know, I'm really glad you say that and I think we should invite more people to have like a call or something because you know what I do now and you can call me an at, but I'm like, when I don't want to deal on LinkedIn, people offer their opinions and I'm like, I can't really educate you here, you know, and if I educate you, you're going to reply and so on. So okay, see above, not for, for the part of Serbia when Van is from. I just believe there and I'm like, yeah, if you want to email me directly, absolutely. But like I'm not engaging.

[Reina Moto]

Right, right, right. So you're a good man.

[Anna Angelic]

You're a good man.

[Reina Moto]

I try to be patient. I try to be patient.

[Vanya Arsenov]

Yeah.

[Reina Moto]

One thing that I want to mention because creativity is a pretty broad term and there is never a perfect definition. Right. Having said that, I had a conversation with somebody named Joel Poteny who used to be the head of Apple University when Steve Jobs was still around. So he used to be a professor at the Yale School of Business Management and he was a business professor and he was there for like you know, 20 years or 17 years. 20 years or so. He was a lifelong academic. And then more than 15 years ago, when Steve Jobs was still alive, Steve Jobs personally recruited this individual, Joel and asked him to be the dean of Apple University, which is an in house, in house training curriculum to maintain the quality of Apple as an organization. So yeah, so I asked him like, how do you similar conversation like, you know, creativity is such a blah, blah. How do you define creativity? And the definition that I, that he gave is the one that I, it's the simplest and the easiest to understand. And the way he describes creativity is, is two things. One is original thought and two is skillful, skillful action or skillful execution. So having ideas, original ideas and then the ability to execute it in a skillful, high quality kind of way. Right. So as long as an organization has the ability to come up with ideas and then execute it, you know, it has the potential to become a creative organization. And I think a lot of companies, either they, they're not able to do either or they might be able to come up with an idea but then know is never able to execute.

[Anna Angelic]

Well then let's go back to pillar number one, which is efficiency. Honestly, all those organizations have ideas, they have wonderful people.

[Reina Moto]

Yes.

[Anna Angelic]

But they're Organized for efficiency. And now that 2025, the business model is stretched to its limits. You can't have 17 fashion shows. You can't have. You can Fast and Furious 35. You know what I mean?

[Vanya Arsenov]

Yeah.

[Anna Angelic]

But as you are seeing that scale is no longer the goal. People are now like wait, but there are no any more macro trends. Everything is niche trends. There is. And when you have that then you sort of specialize in. In say cosmetic recommendations or outdoor recommendations or products here, products there. But it's not anymore. I think that those business models that we've seen that the retail company has to be a $2 billion company.

[Vanya Arsenov]

Yeah, yeah.

[Anna Angelic]

And they're all struggling to keep that is telling you that that model is indeed. It's. The world is just too fast and predictable. It's the works. When you had those factories and you're turning and stuff doesn't change for years. Passions don't change. What people eat, where they go, what they like. You have Britney Spears Pepsi commercial, which is mess, everyone knows. But what would. What do you do when your mass is actually aggregation of those niches? You can't just do one size fits all. Which is efficiency is about.

[Vanya Arsenov]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Anna Angelic]

Well, I would say it's this organizational setup.

[Reina Moto]

Organizational setup, but also mindset or culture too.

[Anna Angelic]

No, it's incentives. Like again you are like having been in those giant retail organizations. I used to think like that like long time ago. But now they're wonderful people. They're just not incentivized to do things differently because they're measured by old measure. Their boss does like. And then even when someone new comes in and is their chief brand officer, their CEO, they're gonna execute resistance, incentivize creative thinking and say don't worry guys, you don't need to update your website every day with new products, blah blah. Just give me creative like you know. And then the business results are gonna go down and people are gonna come up with amazing things, you know.

[Vanya Arsenov]

Yeah, yeah.

[Anna Angelic]

But who is incentivized for that? And it's going to be like no bonus for you.

[Reina Moto]

But when you, when you say incent, incentivized, do you mean literally like bonus or financial incentives or do you mean other types of incentives as well?

[Anna Angelic]

All sorts of incentives. That means like if you want to do things in a certain way.

[Vanya Arsenov]

Yeah.

[Anna Angelic]

And you're not at the top of organization. So you have to mobilize the entire organization. And even when you're on top of organization, like I was very lucky that I was on a top of Brand marketing, creative organizations. So it was the frameworks we introduced and how we worked with merchandising and retail channels. But even then in one of my jobs, retail channels have no idea what we were talking about. They're so backwards that it was kind of like, oh, don't worry about it. Seriously, just do your thing. Not banana. Banana were amazing. They are so amazing. That unbelievably business savvy and operational savvy.

[Vanya Arsenov]

Yeah, yeah.

[Reina Moto]

But you know, in a case like in retail or fashion where there are a lot of operational, transactional or even functional roles that may not be traditionally creative, Right. And then when you go into those organizations as a senior executive and to instill that kind of mindset into say roles of people in roles that may not be typically creative, what is specific other than incentive? What is specific activities? What are specific processes that you deployed in order to elevate the mindset?

[Anna Angelic]

Well, process is the king, honestly. First of all, having one vision, one clear vision where this organization is going on the level of CEO, cfo, chief revenue officer, chief growth officer, chief marketing officer, chief Product officer, so on. So everyone knows where the company is going and then CFO can actually provide funds to where the company is going and not find itself with the pants down when you're kind of like, oh, maybe the results are not there. And results are always not going to be there on a short term because revenue is always likely indicator of brand and it's actually possible to kind of reverse engineer cultural influences. See, hey, we did this, this and this and that led to X amount of growth.

[Vanya Arsenov]

Yeah, yeah.

[Anna Angelic]

You know, so in that sense that first of all a clear vision and then second of all the process where everyone is included in decision making. So that's why I think that like rather than having a strategy, you need to have a creative production department. You know, like Hollywood, when people from different, from different specializations bring in, even if they're not external, if they're internal, that producer merchandising needs to sit with marketing, needs to sit with creative, needs to sit with product design and channels and they need to make decisions together. If you're siloed, you're going to look to be as efficient as possible in your silo at that trement of you're competing with each other.

[Vanya Arsenov]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Reina Moto]

So on that note, one case study that, that, that I can, that I thought about, that I would share was, was asics. So I, I, we worked with Asics for just, you know, pure disclaimer, any transparency. But we've Worked since, I want to say, 2018 or so, when their business was kind of going downhill. And 2021 is when they were able to turn it around. And then by 2023, 2024, their revenue was the highest in its corporate history. And what enabled that kind of turnaround, one was cross functional way of working, and then the other one was. And this is sort of up to the theme of this, not just this episode, but the podcast itself, which is having a hit product. So, you know, it took them for about a year to two years or so to really course correct the declining sales and declining sort of mindset of the people internally. The CEO at the time, whom we worked with, Mr. Hirota, created a special project where it was just to develop one product, but he brought seven or eight different functions under one umbrella and then created this SWAT team. Marketing, product development, legal and all those. Production and all those. And then over the course of about a year, year and a half or so, they develop a product specifically for a category for runners, and then that became a hit product. So they had a process blueprint and template and a team structure template that then they could. They were able to prove as a proof of concept so that they can then repeat that to make the overall culture of overall organization, quote, unquote, more creative. Yeah, but what it came down to was the team structure, the process, and then a hip product. Those three things were the ingredient of creative strategy.

[Anna Angelic]

Yeah, I would argue that, like, I wouldn't like. Yes, great. And that's Asics. So one legendary brands in the world. I don't think that every brand needs to have a hit product, but I think the chances of coming up or making a product a hit when it comes to that are higher. If the process is in place. You say, they say, hey, this is really spiking up. Let's put more media against it. Let's put more. I need more money against it. I need to do a little mini campaign. Let's, you know, like just having that nimbleness, reactivity.

[Vanya Arsenov]

Yeah.

[Anna Angelic]

Predicting hits is. Is a mood business, as you and I talked to several. But what you can do is kind of like, how do you reverse engineer cultural influence to respond very quickly when something does catch on?

[Vanya Arsenov]

Yeah, yeah.

[Reina Moto]

Who do you think are outside of, say, fashion. Yeah, outside of fashion. Who do you think are creative organizations?

[Anna Angelic]

You look at Gap is a creative organization now. I think that it was for a minute when Sandra was there, my boss and I mean, I was there, and we were doing things differently. That was insane. Sprint of 9 months to revive that brand. But I don't think that that sort of behavior has continued. But what I'm asking say that in a negative way. It's just for the, for a company that scale with four brands, there are different moments in time.

[Reina Moto]

Yeah, but what about like outside of fashion?

[Anna Angelic]

Absolutely. I think outside of fashion, I think very creative. I don't even think that Apple is a creative organization anymore. I don't think they're creative, you know because if you define creative organization, the one that constantly comes up with new things or at least managed to capture design guys and keeps growing and kind of goes through then I think the list is, is very, the list is very short. Like I'm mostly well verse but you know you can probably see some watch brands, you can probably see some automotive brands. Probably Tesla, you know is to an extent because they, they created a completely new market.

[Vanya Arsenov]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Anna Angelic]

And then they kept innovating in terms of design, which is basically one of the very few ways that you can innovate electric vehicles. So I would say Tesla probably. Yeah, those say and I don't think we give enough credit to TikTok anymore. And you know how basically they're always on the toes, they're making trends, but they are themselves. And then I would say those small CPG brands that is like okay, so this is not a CPG brand. This is perfectly imperfect which is this peer to peer recommendation platform from you know, anti algorithm. I didn't know about them where people recommend to each other. Oh, perfectly perfect socializing of the recommendation because if you say hey, if everything now is it there literally look like V 1.0. But that's the point, you know. So I would say some of those smaller brands and then I would always give brands that are actually walking the walk in terms of sustainability. There is this Danish brand called Soul Land. Soul Land and they have all like innovative materials. But those small brands, you see, I don't see any gigantic creativity inside of Tik Tok. And that's what is happening in terms of apps in China, shopping apps in, in China platforms. What. What about you? What do you think?

[Reina Moto]

I would say the first one that comes to my mind and not in any specific order but Nintendo.

[Anna Angelic]

Okay, yeah. Offer disclosure here. I'm sorry, are they your client or.

[Reina Moto]

No, no, no, no, they're not. They're not. Good point. No, no, I'm not, I'm not, you know, just highlighting. No, no, no, no. But it's one of those companies that they're not always successful but They've been around for a hundred. Over 100 years now.

[Vanya Arsenov]

Yeah.

[Reina Moto]

And you know, like the way they started as a company, they used to create these deco cars like, like super analog decks of cars. That was the business, you know, 100 years ago.

[Anna Angelic]

Love it.

[Reina Moto]

And then they just kind of kept evolving and evolving, evolving. And it became a computer console, game console company in the the 80s. And every, I would say 10 to 15 years, they have been able to produce a massive hit. So like in the 80s and 90s, when I was growing up in Japan, they had Nintendo. You know, these. In Japan it was called family computers. Here it was called Nintendo. And it became like the first major computer game at home. And then like Wii was one of the first gesture gaming consoles.

[Anna Angelic]

Yeah, no, that's a great point.

[Vanya Arsenov]

Yeah.

[Reina Moto]

And then I would say like around 2017, 18, they introduced Nintendo Switch.

[Vanya Arsenov]

Yeah.

[Reina Moto]

And then during COVID this game called Animal Crossing became a global.

[Anna Angelic]

Animal crossing.

[Reina Moto]

Yeah, global phenomenon.

[Vanya Arsenov]

Yeah.

[Anna Angelic]

Did you play Animal Crossing?

[Reina Moto]

My daughter did actually.

[Anna Angelic]

Yeah. I never got into it, but I guess.

[Reina Moto]

Yeah, no, but I mean people who are into it, especially during COVID I mean they were playing sounds of sad.

[Anna Angelic]

I mean, not water obviously, but I know who you mean. Like.

[Reina Moto]

Yeah, yeah, no, but they were, they were. I mean people were really into it, you know. And the thing is, I mean I played it while I watched my daughter play it and like I didn't really find it that because like you don't really do anything, you know this.

[Anna Angelic]

Right, but that's. I know, I know. But then you have Roblox that is like build upon that like as a multiplayer and so on. So I love that. And you know what that reminded me of Lego and especially adult fans of lego, a fol, that's a special category. And they design into LEGO their own ideas and so on. And you know why that's relevant. And thank you for bringing up Nintendo because in China, Japan, in Asia, even in Europe, fewer kids. And so the toy companies are reorienting to like kid adults. So they're creating merge, they're creating those like toys for actually teenagers and above. But that's innovation. Kind of realizing that, oh wait a second, maybe we are not for 5 year olds, but maybe we are for 15 or 25 year olds. Still want that because of, I don't know, squid game or Nintendo or whatnot. They kind of like are used to Roblox. At the end of the day they're used to living in this, this, this, this, you know, imaginary world.

[Vanya Arsenov]

Yeah.

[Reina Moto]

So company like Nintendo, I I find them quite interesting because they've been able to sustain their creativity over so many years. It's not just in the last 10 or 20 years, it's for the past 100 years.

[Vanya Arsenov]

Yeah, yeah.

[Reina Moto]

So it's not just about an individual who's so creative that he or she becomes the leader and then know like who, like what, what Steve Jobs was to, to Apple. Right?

[Vanya Arsenov]

Yeah, yeah.

[Reina Moto]

And then to your point, to an earlier point that you made that is Apple really creative? You know, it's kind of debatable. And is it because of the, the leadership and no offense to, you know, the leadership at Apple?

[Anna Angelic]

Like the most valuable brand in the world?

[Reina Moto]

Exactly.

[Anna Angelic]

Kind of. God bless.

[Reina Moto]

Yeah, they've been able to increase the value. Yeah, they've been able to increase the value of it, you know, so, yeah.

[Anna Angelic]

I do think that that like, that is for example, innovation. I think what IKEA has done was innovative and I think to this day is because they have like multiple sort of streams, they have like sustainability, they have collaborations and their sort of content is very responsive. So I think they're keeping themselves on their toes. And I think it's important also to distinguish between corporate cultures and wider cultures. They exist with thin, are more egalitarian, more nimble, more prepared for unexpected rather than, I mean, look at Europe. Who walked? Like, where are we? What century is this?

[Vanya Arsenov]

Yeah.

[Reina Moto]

So that's one company that, when I think of creativity and company that's able to produce it on a regular basis, I think of somebody, somebody like Nintendo on a much, much smaller scale. I find the restaurant industry quite interesting because if, especially if you're a high end restaurant, you know, you have to be highly creative and it's also a very competitive industry.

[Vanya Arsenov]

Yeah.

[Reina Moto]

So like for instance, like when I started my own company, the model that I looked at was some of those high end restaurants, but specifically this comp, this restaurant called El Buli in Spain.

[Vanya Arsenov]

Yeah.

[Reina Moto]

And then this guy, Ferrand Adria, who's a legendary gastronomy chef, and the model that he had at his restaurant was that the restaurant itself was open only for six months of the year. And then the following six months he would close the restaurant. He wouldn't serve any customers, but he would develop new techniques and new cleaner innovations. And then following six months he would serve that, but then during that six month, when the, that restaurant was closed, he would document it and then he would publish these beautiful monographs of the invention, the, the culinary inventions that he made. And then that became an IP itself, a piece of Content, you know, this beautiful monograph that he would publish so.

[Anna Angelic]

That also be anymore. Do they.

[Reina Moto]

No, they. They changed. They stopped running the business because to be honest, I. I don't think he was financially that viable. So they turned it into an educational institution.

[Anna Angelic]

Okay, let's. Let's stay with. No, I, I understand what you like. I understand the model, but for me, it's creativity under realistic market conditions.

[Reina Moto]

I. I think it was. To be fair, I think it was. I mean, they lasted for what, multiple decades.

[Anna Angelic]

Yeah, they did last for a really long time and people would make pilgrimage and that was. But I think that with more restaurants having Michelin stars and even mommy is not around anymore. So it's not just, you know.

[Reina Moto]

Right, right, right, right.

[Anna Angelic]

Norma was able to succeed because Danish government supports it for three years, rejecting, you know, and so it's this kind of recognition that you can't build it off the ground. And I do think that it's very worth having innovation when you sort of don't operate according to financial laws of the market. But I'm personally and professionally more interested in innovation that actually operates with things.

[Reina Moto]

Yeah, yeah.

[Anna Angelic]

Because there is so much innovation. Go to mit, go to, you know, like, it's. It's kind of like we are going to space and so what not.

[Vanya Arsenov]

Yeah.

[Anna Angelic]

And what is the commercial potential? So I think connecting that.

[Vanya Arsenov]

Yeah, yeah.

[Anna Angelic]

Commercial aspect is key.

[Reina Moto]

But speaking of, speaking of connecting that with a commercial success or at least viability.

[Vanya Arsenov]

Yeah.

[Reina Moto]

And sort of stay in that culinary space. Another company that I'll bring. I'll share the screen just so that for people who are watching this on. On YouTube account. See it. Got it.

[Vanya Arsenov]

Yeah.

[Reina Moto]

So it's this. It is a Japanese brand called Toraya. And what they make is called Wagashi, which means Japanese pastry. And it's been around for. Since 16th century. Right, 16th century. And then they produce these beautiful pastries. And. And by the way, I also like the. The simplicity of the Instagram account. They just showed that. And that only, you know, how many.

[Anna Angelic]

Followers do they have?

[Reina Moto]

They have like 130k. So it's not a humongous following, but it's not small.

[Anna Angelic]

So that you have small.

[Reina Moto]

It's not small.

[Anna Angelic]

And that's nice. Yeah. Today, globally, it looks beaut. Body.

[Vanya Arsenov]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Anna Angelic]

And it's how clean it is.

[Vanya Arsenov]

Yeah.

[Reina Moto]

It's been around for. For, you know, 400 years.

[Anna Angelic]

That's insane. And when did they open their Instagram account? In 18th century.

[Reina Moto]

Exactly. 18th century. Exactly.

[Anna Angelic]

Yeah. That's a lovely example. And I think there's so many examples of that, of craftsmanship. But craftsmanship is one thing and then the other is brand and a company, you know, and you're lucky. One is lucky if they combine the two. Like the story of on running. I love that story because they're like really running nerds for like, what if you put the pipe.

[Vanya Arsenov]

Yeah.

[Anna Angelic]

And try to like build like a soul of that and then.

[Vanya Arsenov]

Yeah.

[Anna Angelic]

They have a lab and. But at the same time, they're not just about product innovation. They're like about the emotion of running the field.

[Vanya Arsenov]

Yeah.

[Anna Angelic]

Spirit, you know. So I think they're really doing the right thing, that they filed an IPO so that they plan to stay around. They're doing the right thing.

[Vanya Arsenov]

Yeah.

[Anna Angelic]

Building and product innovation, which I sort of like. And also like hokka that innovative materials. When you look Nike, which kind of slid back because of the lack of products innovation.

[Reina Moto]

But speaking of own, just to go back to a little bit, I like what they're doing in terms of the product innovation, but also they're like collaborations and marketing activities as of late, you know, so they are collaborating with, I think Loewe and coming up with a collection that's specific to that collaboration. So, yeah. It's not just, you know, creating good products for the sake of good products.

[Anna Angelic]

No. It's knowing your audience and then inspiring your audience in a cultural sense, not just in a product sense.

[Vanya Arsenov]

Yeah.

[Reina Moto]

But just to summarize for the audience, what's one thing that you want our audience to take away about this conversation?

[Anna Angelic]

Well, that creativity is not the output is the approach. And the creativity doesn't sit in a traditional creative department as design or marketing or creative. And that creativity beats efficiency. And it's now becoming increasingly the dominant mode of how companies organize themselves. Of course you're not going to see the shift, but a lot of industries are hitting their sort of a limit, like media. Whatever is happening, media is happening in retail. Then you kind of look across mass industries industries and see who stays and who goes.

[Vanya Arsenov]

Yeah.

[Reina Moto]

Cool. My summary or my key takeaway is actually going back to the. The beginning of this conversation, which is that I find that definition that I shared at the beginning. Creativity is a combination of original thought and skillful action. And any organization that's able to do both are the ones that win and that can be creative. It's not, you know, to your point, a department or an individual or a function, but those two things, being able to come up with original thought and execute skillfully, are the two ingredients. The Basic ingredients of creativity.

[Anna Angelic]

Right. And I mean, I'm just going to say for those who are not from agencies that coming up with original thought is very high limit. So I think it's enough to have original way of addressing a problem or thinking an issue, like thinking outside the box. Oh, it hasn't been done before.

[Vanya Arsenov]

Yeah.

[Anna Angelic]

So I just want to say, because those people are like, their actions are going to impact the bottom line of a company.

[Reina Moto]

Right, Right. Alrighty. So, hit list. So I can. I can go.

[Vanya Arsenov]

Yeah.

[Reina Moto]

So I can't remember if I mentioned this. I think we talked about this a couple weeks ago. But my hit list right now is squid. Squid game.

[Anna Angelic]

Really? Yeah, no, like squid game, I think, like, again, really? Oh, my God. No one is watching it. Everyone is like, oh, it's repetition of the last one and. No, we watched it and we're like, okay, this is copy paste.

[Reina Moto]

Really? You did you watch it?

[Anna Angelic]

Yeah, I did, Brandon. I watched it when it came out and it was like. It's literally copy paste of the same.

[Reina Moto]

It is similar. Really?

[Anna Angelic]

Okay, that's from gen Z, like 25 or 2730. They were like. No, it's. They didn't even bother.

[Reina Moto]

Maybe. Maybe I'm biased because, like, what, What I. It's true. It's very much similar to the first one. Right?

[Vanya Arsenov]

Yeah.

[Reina Moto]

But especially when you first.

[Anna Angelic]

And the writing is not as good, the narrative arc is not as believable. So I'm gonna push back on that one. I mean, everyone needs to have their hit. But I'm just saying, like, really?

[Reina Moto]

Okay, so I'm only into like the second episode, so I'm. I haven't watched the whole thing.

[Anna Angelic]

Okay.

[Reina Moto]

So maybe I'll. I would change.

[Anna Angelic]

No, I already forgot about it. And I was like, traumatized for like weeks after the first. After the first one. You couldn't have talking about it.

[Reina Moto]

Yeah, the first one was good.

[Anna Angelic]

It's just not in the zeitgeist.

[Reina Moto]

Oh, man. Oh, man. Okay, so that might. That might ruin. That might ruin the. The. The viewing of the rest of the episodes for me then.

[Anna Angelic]

No, but it's like, like, you can still enjoy it. It's not worse that you. I mean, it is a little worse than the original. It is.

[Vanya Arsenov]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Reina Moto]

Okay.

[Anna Angelic]

You don't believe it. You're just kind of like, yeah, why would he do that? You know what I mean?

[Reina Moto]

Yeah.

[Anna Angelic]

Watching the first and we're like, what is this? That was genre creativity. Unbelievable.

[Reina Moto]

The first. Yeah, I agree. The first one was on so many levels. And what was what was great about the first, especially the first time they came out, was that the premise or the idea of a survival game is not new. Like it's been around.

[Anna Angelic]

Right.

[Reina Moto]

And many, many writers and filmmakers try to create this type of survival game shows and movies.

[Vanya Arsenov]

Yeah.

[Reina Moto]

But the way they did it was so different.

[Anna Angelic]

Capitalism. It was such an obvious brutal critique of capitalism. There are poor people who are taught to be trash and irreplaceable and they're fighting for amusement of the.

[Reina Moto]

Yeah, yeah.

[Anna Angelic]

Class. You know what I mean? So, and I also. It was 2020, like, I think like always it's timing. 2021 after Covid, it just hit us. And that was the time Black Lives Matter early in the summer. And yeah, the ridge was just starting with yeah, yeah, yeah, succession, so on. So you know what I mean? It's always about.

[Reina Moto]

Do you think they waited too long to create the second iteration?

[Anna Angelic]

Even if they didn't, it. It's not original enough. The premise is the same.

[Reina Moto]

But then, then why is it that like so many Hollywood movies, especially in the past, you know, 10 years is.

[Anna Angelic]

Like all sequels because of literally what we just talked about. Because they want to like efficiency is what drives them, not creativity. And I learned at Columbia Business School there is no such thing that works in movie industry like a sequel that guaranteed money. So you have all those franchises and sequels. You have Fast and Furious 17, you.

[Reina Moto]

Have like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Anna Angelic]

All of that because no one wants to be creative and take a risk. Everyone wants to be just like, turn every year, fill out the theaters. You're going to know that you have an audience and that's why.

[Reina Moto]

And. And then the audience is probably educated that way as well. Like, hey, you know what? There, there was a first one that was a big hit and so then there must be a next one.

[Anna Angelic]

Well, I mean, probably. But someone didn't read that article on Netflix that I sent you. I sent over the week. Yeah, yeah.

[Reina Moto]

No, I didn't, I didn't. I don't think I did.

[Anna Angelic]

I don't think I did. I sent you on WhatsApp. I sent you an article on Netflix and the criticism of Netflix recommendation and what it. What he has done for it's published in N1 for movie. They're like, they're basically a television company.

[Reina Moto]

Yeah, yeah.

[Anna Angelic]

Enemies were two things. Blockbuster and cable. And now they're like cable with live TV and Blockbuster in a sense that is ton of crap in a store, but nothing you want to watch.

[Reina Moto]

Okay, you know what? I think I know the link, but I. I never actually read it.

[Anna Angelic]

It's okay. I know. That's why I said someone did that.

[Reina Moto]

No, I did. I did not read it.

[Anna Angelic]

So I'll do my homework for next time. Okay, so let's say for those who are still listening, that one and a half person, you can find us on YouTube, Spotify, Apple, podcasts. If you like what you're hearing, leave a review. I'm Anna Angelic and this is Reynamoto.

[Reina Moto]

And see you in two weeks.

[Anna Angelic]

See you in two weeks. Thanks for listening.