The Ireland Shakespeare Relics

Summary

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Hoax! – "The Ireland Shakespeare Relics"

Podcast: Hoax! by iHeartMedia
Hosts: Dana Schwartz & Lizzie Logan
Date: September 1, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this lively episode, Dana Schwartz leads co-host Lizzie Logan through the fascinating—and genuinely bizarre—story of the Ireland Shakespeare forgeries, also known as one of the most audacious literary hoaxes in English history. The story centers on William Henry Ireland, an overlooked and lonely young man who, in a bid to impress his pretentious collector father, Samuel, faked a series of "lost" Shakespeare documents—including a brand new play.

Through witty banter and richly detailed research, Dana and Lizzie explore why the hoax succeeded, how its creator was driven by a complicated family dynamic, and what the whole affair reveals about the way people believe what they want to believe—especially when it comes to literary heroes.

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Key Discussion Points & Timeline

Meet the Irelands and the Birth of a Hoax (02:44–11:03)

• Who were the Irelands?

  • Samuel Ireland: Social-climbing commoner, obsessed with collecting artifacts, desperate for a connection to fame.
    • “[Samuel] likes having things connected to famous people and events.” (05:46)
  • William Henry Ireland: The overlooked son, dismissed as dull, desperate for approval.
  • The family’s home life: Absent mother, mysterious housekeeper Mrs. Freeman (possible former mistress of an earl and possibly mother to the Ireland children).

• Setting the scene:

  • The 18th-century culture of collecting, importance of lineage, and the beginnings of "Shakespeare Mania" (when Shakespeare started being mythologized as a national hero, not just a jobbing playwright).

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Shakespeare’s Mystique & The Hunger for Relics (10:38–17:26)

• What was known about Shakespeare?

  • Very few genuine documents or signatures survived; lots of gaps in his biography.
  • "That’s why people have all these conspiracy theories about, like, it was one guy, it was a woman..." (10:38)
  • By the late 1700s, Shakespeare’s status was booming, but facts about his life were still scarce—a perfect environment for forgers.

• Samuel’s obsession:

  • He fixates on the idea that some birdcage lining or soon-to-be-burnt pile of old papers might contain Shakespeare’s handwriting.
  • “[Samuel] would give up half of my collection of books, of rare books, for one Shakespeare signature.” (19:36)

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William Henry Tests the Waters (20:01–25:07)

• First forgeries:
  • William Henry initially forges dedications and letters in old books using clever aging methods (like using old ink and fire-singed paper), then hands them to his father as “finds."
  • “[William Henry] rewrites the letter, holds it over the fire… and gives it to his dad...” (22:42)
• Parental reaction:
  • Samuel is quickly duped, bolstered by his own need to believe.
  • The process is iterative—each early success makes William Henry bolder.

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The Shakespeare Forgeries Take Off (29:02–39:23)

• The big leap: William Henry accesses authentic-looking old paper and ink, practices Shakespeare’s signature, and forges a deed purportedly signed by the Bard.

• Samuel’s reaction:

  • Underwhelmed at first but soon falls for it—as do his circle of friends and supposed experts.

• Expert lunacy:

  • One expert sees a seal and reads so deeply into it that he claims it as proof:
    • “It’s a thing called a quintain... It’s what you would shake a spear at. So it’s definitely his seal.” – (32:41, wax seal expert)

• Escalation of the hoax:

  • William Henry invents “Mr. H,” a mysterious benefactor with an inexhaustible trunk of Shakespeare artifacts.

  • He forges not just signatures but “lost” Shakespeare poems, letters, and ultimately, entire plays.

  • Forgeries include love poems to Anne Hathaway and a declaration of Protestant faith—catering to contemporary desires for a "respectable" version of Shakespeare.

    “He’s going to write as Shakespeare and sort of create a fan fiction version of Shakespeare. That’s who he wants him to be.” – Dana (34:22)
    "Is there in heaven aught more rare / Than Thou sweet nymph of Avon, fair / Is there on earth a man more true / Than Willy Shakespeare is to you?” – Lizzie, reading the fake poem (37:06)

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Public Sensation, Doubters, and Expert Denunciations (41:42–44:25)

• Public and press attention:
  • The artifacts become a sensation—people visit just to glimpse the supposed relics, and Samuel even begins charging for entry.
  • Notable scholars and dignitaries, like the poet laureate and James Boswell, sign certificates of belief in the documents.
• Emerging skepticism:
  • Satirical newspaper columns; not everyone is fooled.
  • Some immediate critics point out the implausibility and amateurishness of the forgeries.
    • “People love to be. People from the past were so dumb. No, there were absolutely people back then who immediately knew it was a forgery…” – Dana (42:30)

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The Hoax Snowballs: Plays, Publication, and Fiasco (58:15–68:02)

• William Henry’s masterpiece:

  • He “finds” an entire lost Shakespeare play: Vortigern and Rowena.
  • The play is auctioned between London’s top theaters; Drury Lane wins, but everyone senses something is off.
  • Actors and scholars are skeptical but the public hype is unstoppable.

• The fatal mistake:

  • Samuel publishes a massive volume of “the findings"—but now scholars can pour over them at home, and critics like Edmund Malone demolish their authenticity in exhaustive rebuttals.

• The farcical premiere:

  • Vortigern and Rowena debuts to a sold-out, jeering, brawling house, and bombs spectacularly.
    • “He goes—and when this solemn mockery is ended—and everyone cracks up, and then he repeats the line, like, really hamming it up…” – Dana (68:02)

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Unmasking, Confession, and Fallout (69:14–76:36)

• Aftermath and familial disaster:
  • William Henry confesses to his sisters and eventually the family friend Albany Wallace.
  • The father, Samuel, refuses to believe his dull son could be behind it; he clings to the relics’ authenticity and dies in disgrace, never reconciling with William Henry.
• William Henry’s fate:
  • Publishes a confession pamphlet, but always remains a minor, semi-notorious writer.
  • He sells copies of his old forgeries later in life, and keeps rewriting his confession to paint himself as even younger and more tragic.
• The family legacy:
  • The family’s reputation is destroyed. William Henry’s sister burns the hoax’s publications. Samuel dies ostracized and pitied.
• On meaning and motivation:
  • William Henry was driven by a need for familial approval as much as a desire to prove the snobbery of literary culture.
    • “He was writing the version of Shakespeare that people wanted to believe in, which is, I think, why they believed in this hoax so much.” – Dana (79:17)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Samuel’s character (06:32):
  “He’s really pretentious, always needs to be the smartest person in the room—thinks he has incredible taste as a curator. And he’s very arrogant.” – Dana

• On fake-old writing style (37:06):
  “He writes old timey Shakespeare like a child would, in that he’s adding e’s to every word and double consonants. Like he’s doing fake old timey ‘ye olde shoppe’… That is not how people in the old times wrote.” – Dana

• On experts reading too much into things (32:41):
  “It’s a thing called a quintain... It’s what you would shake a spear at. So it’s definitely his seal.” – Dana, recounting the ‘expert’s’ justification

• On wishful thinking (76:08): "He felt important… him writing these Shakespearean artifacts is imbuing a sense of importance to the literary establishment, but also he’s really resentful of it… They’re only thinking this poetry is good because Shakespeare wrote it—but also, it is good because I wrote it. And maybe I'm another Shakespeare.” – Dana

• On fan fiction and wish fulfillment (79:10):
  “That’s some real fan fiction shit. That’s like—let me tell you about the time I met Harry Styles and he told me I was pretty.” – Lizzie

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Why Did People Believe the Hoax?

• Desire to Fill Historical Voids:
  People wanted concrete links to a deified Shakespeare, whose real biography was shadowy and contested.
• Confirmation Bias:
  The relics offered exactly the kind of "respectable" and sentimental Shakespeare the public wanted—pious, loving, generous.
• Social Prestige:
  Belief in the artifacts granted Samuel and his visitors social clout; skepticism risked looking foolish or heretical.
• Disdain for Commoners:
  Few could believe a so-called “dull” nobody like William Henry—much less a young man—could have fooled the learned establishment.

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Takeaway Reflections

• Literary hoaxes expose how even experts and elites can be blinded by desire, ego, and social dynamics.
• People are always susceptible to believing what fits their worldview, especially around revered figures.
• The story is also deeply tragic: a son’s yearning for paternal affection collides with one man’s desperate need for status, scorching their family and reputation in the process.

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Episode Highlights and Timestamps

| Segment | Key Theme | Timestamp | |---|---|---| | Introduction & Concept of Hoaxes | Explaining belief in hoaxes | 02:44–03:31 | | Samuel Ireland – The Obsessive Collector | Family dynamics & motivations | 04:30–08:03 | | Shakespeare’s Mystique and the 18th Century | Lack of records fuels myths | 10:38–17:26 | | William Henry’s First Forgeries | Testing the waters | 20:01–25:07 | | Forgery Escalates to Full Shakespeare Artifacts | Signatures, letters, poems | 29:02–41:00 | | The "Lost" Shakespeare Play | Vortigern & Rowena fiasco | 58:15–68:02 | | The Confession and Aftermath | Denial, disgrace, and sad coda | 69:14–76:36 | | Why the Hoax Worked | Psychology of belief | Throughout |

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Tone & Style

• Witty, fast-paced storytelling: Dana and Lizzie riff with each other, mixing historical insight, pop culture references (Shakespeare in Love, Harry Styles, Taylor Swift fans), and sly irony.
  • “That’s like, ye olde 'wet teabags on parchment for history reports' trick.” – Paraphrased from (22:09)
• Empathetic, but incisive character work: They view William Henry as both a pathetic figure and an underappreciated trickster.
• Modern analogies: Frequent comparisons to current hoaxes, fandom culture, and media gullibility.

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Final Thoughts

This episode is a sharply drawn portrait of how historical forgeries succeed—not because the fakes are flawless, but because people want them to be true. The Ireland Shakespeare Relics story is at once comic, tragic, and ever-relevant, revealing the timeless interplay between longing, authority, and self-deception.

Transcript

[Dana Schwartz]

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[Glen Washington]

I'm Glen Washington, the host of Snap Judgment from KQED. Every week we don't just tell stories, we drop you inside them. Real people, real voices, real moments that split a life in two. What do you believe? What do you risk? What do you want? Snap Judgment New episodes every Thursday. Wherever you get your podcast.

[Dana Schwartz]

You are listening to Hoax, a production of I Heart Podcasts. Folks, It's a hoax outcome. No one ever seems to believe me when I swear I never was to see this, I'm left wondering. Welcome to Hoax, a new podcast.

[Lizzie Logan]

Or is it it is. Every episode we sort through the lies we wish were true and truths that sound like lies.

[Dana Schwartz]

This is not just another scam and scandal podcast. Oh, no.

[Lizzie Logan]

These are stories of pranks and grifts throughout history so big and bold, they make us question why we believe.

[Dana Schwartz]

I'm the ghost of Dana Schwartz.

[Lizzie Logan]

And I'm the evil twin of Lizzie Logan.

[Dana Schwartz]

Welcome to the show. How's it going, Lizzie?

[Lizzie Logan]

It's going great. I'm really excited. Anticipation has been building all week for your hoax.

[Dana Schwartz]

I've been very excited researching this one. I'm kind of, like, talking to everyone in my life about it, but not you, because I wanted you to be surprised.

[Lizzie Logan]

I've just been getting teases. I've just been getting texts of like, this is gonna be good.

[Dana Schwartz]

Okay, well, I'll jump in and ask you. Yes. What do you know? If I tell you about the Ireland Shakespeare hoax, what does that mean to you?

[Lizzie Logan]

Well, I know of a few different Shakespeare hoaxes.

[Dana Schwartz]

Okay.

[Lizzie Logan]

So I don't know which one is the Ireland one. Okay.

[Dana Schwartz]

What? What? Give me some Shakespeare hoaxes. So?

[Lizzie Logan]

Well, there's, like, theories that Shakespeare was somebody else.

[Dana Schwartz]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Lizzie Logan]

Or that he was a group of people. Um, and then I think my mom maybe sent me an article that I didn't read, but I did read the, like, headline of some kid, young guy, who said that he found, quote, unquote, found another play or two by Shakespeare that I guess he had actually just written, and then it took a while for it to get debunked.

[Dana Schwartz]

Oh, here's that. This is where we're at.

[Lizzie Logan]

This is it, Mom. This is for you.

[Dana Schwartz]

This is for Lizzie's mom. She and I have actually been texting.

[Lizzie Logan]

Well, great. She would love to hear from you.

[Dana Schwartz]

Okay, so I actually don't want to start with the sun, but it's not a spoiler alert. This is a podcast called Hoax. It is a hoax.

[Lizzie Logan]

Yes.

[Dana Schwartz]

But I want to start with this boy's dad. We're going to talk about a man named Samuel Ireland.

[Lizzie Logan]

Okay.

[Dana Schwartz]

That's his last name.

[Lizzie Logan]

Are we in Ireland?

[Dana Schwartz]

No, no, we're in England.

[Lizzie Logan]

Well, so I'm all the way off.

[Dana Schwartz]

It is confusing. Their last name is Ireland.

[Lizzie Logan]

Okay.

[Dana Schwartz]

This is a man named Samuel Ireland. We're in the 1700s.

[Lizzie Logan]

Okay?

[Dana Schwartz]

So Samuel Ireland is like. He's like many older men that I feel like people just encounter in our lives. He. When he was growing up, he kind of wanted to be an architect. He failed out of that. He wanted to be a. He tried to work as a weaver, but that was a very competitive industry in London at the time. And so he, you know, flipped out of that. And he sort of landed in a job where he made etchings and wrote sort of semi successful, mostly unsuccessful travel books and sold collectibles mostly. But I think what's important is that this man's personality, he's a commoner. And again, we're in like 18th century England, so status matters a lot. He's a commoner. His ancestors are nobody important, but he sort of has delusions of his own importance. He likes having things connected to famous people and events.

[Lizzie Logan]

Sure. And I wonder, maybe I'm just jumping way ahead, but in terms of he makes etchings of more famous works and then makes copies of them. Is this perhaps gonna be. Give him an idea to make something?

[Dana Schwartz]

I don't know. I don't know. But we'll just say he's a collector and he loves being the smartest person in the room.

[Lizzie Logan]

Okay.

[Dana Schwartz]

He loves impressing his friends with. He had a piece of Charles II's cloak. He had a leather jacket that was worn by Oliver Cromwell. And so even though he collected all these things and like would sell them, which is like not a very gentlemanly thing to do, he purported to sort of be a gentleman with his like, locked cabinet of rare and important artifacts.

[Lizzie Logan]

Interesting.

[Dana Schwartz]

The important thing to know about Samuel Ireland is that he's really pretentious, Always needs to be the smartest person in the room. Thinks he has incredible taste as like a curator. And he's very arrogant.

[Lizzie Logan]

So your average Ivy League guy.

[Dana Schwartz]

Yeah. Although he's self educated and like has a complex about it and has a complex about the fact that he's not a noble. Okay. But he lives in a very fashionable area of London, the strand. He has three kids, two girls and a son. And we. There's no Mrs. Ireland, but there is a live in housekeeper known as Mrs. Freeman, which, like, wouldn't be incredibly not atypical for the time. Women are dying in childbirth all the time. And sometimes there are just gaps in the historical record. But the thing is, Mrs. Freeman wasn't also her real name. Her real name was Anna Maria de Bourgh Coppinger. And she sort of had her own scandalous life. She was a former mistress of the Earl of Sandwich, and she had a pretty large payout, like a large income, about like £700,000 today. Like what that would be. And that's money that you're like, what is her relationship with the Samuel Ireland? And probably most historians think that these three kids were hers with him, but they were born out of wedlock and so they Just sort of had this sort of front that she was the housekeeper. Even though she was probably in a relationship with Samuel Ireland.

[Lizzie Logan]

Okay. And they wouldn't just get married. Cause then the Earl would stop giving her money.

[Dana Schwartz]

Well, we also don't know if that money even came from the Earl. It's possible it was a payout. People have different theories. We don't know. She was just sort of a scandalous lady. It's possible that the older daughters were from a different relationship, and they weren't Samuels. And again, it's possible that he wasn't the father of any of the kids. And it's possible that she wasn't the mother. This is just sort of one historical situation where you're like, something was happening.

[Lizzie Logan]

Sure. Listener, feel free to fill in the blanks with whatever you think is most interesting.

[Dana Schwartz]

The youngest son, the only son, is named William Henry. William Henry Ireland. And she is awful to him. She's not very nice to him. So if you're like. If she's his mom, they do not have a good relationship. And she's also always hinting to the son that his dad is not his real dad.

[Lizzie Logan]

That's so rude.

[Dana Schwartz]

It's like, really rude. And this boy has a. This poor, lonely boy has a real complex. The son's name is William Henry. The dad, weirdly, will call him Samuel, after a older son, Samuel, who died in infancy. Which sounds weird, but wasn't entirely uncommon at the time, but still is, like, a weird thing because it's also his name.

[Lizzie Logan]

Yeah.

[Dana Schwartz]

But no one else, to my knowledge, ever called him Samuel. So we're calling him William Henry because that was his name.

[Lizzie Logan]

Okay.

[Dana Schwartz]

But there's like, a lot of. It's a complicated father son dynamic. And the thing about Samuel the dad is that he was a very literate man. He, like, loved the fact that they grew up in a very literary household. And every night after dinner, he would read to them Shakespeare plays and he would read out loud books to them. That was like, the way you entertained yourself before hbo.

[Lizzie Logan]

That honestly sounds really nice.

[Dana Schwartz]

Yeah. And there's one book that recently came out called Love and Madness by a man named Herbert Croft that. That the dad will read that William Henry absolutely loves.

[Lizzie Logan]

Recent to the Times.

[Dana Schwartz]

Recent to the Times.

[Lizzie Logan]

Telling me about a recent book.

[Dana Schwartz]

No, no, no. Recent to the Times. And it actually. The book Love and Madness is about a recent case that had happened at the time. Like a true crime scandal. It's a fictionalized version of a true crime story at the time of the Earl Of Sandwich's latest mistress being murdered. Which to the housekeeper must have been awful.

[Lizzie Logan]

Or she's like, glad it wasn't me.

[Dana Schwartz]

Glad it wasn't me. But that book will be important later. So just remember that when William Henry was growing up, he was familiar with that book.

[Lizzie Logan]

Okay.

[Dana Schwartz]

The other thing that Samuel loves is that William Shakespeare. I mean, at the time, but also now. Willie shakes. There's almost no historical record of his life. The pieces and history of Shakespeare's life are so rare and scattered. That's why people have all these conspiracy theories about, like, it was one guy, it was a woman, it was no guys. Because there's just very little that exists.

[Lizzie Logan]

It's why you can write Shakespeare in love and no one can be like, that didn't happen. For all we know.

[Dana Schwartz]

For all we know.

[Lizzie Logan]

For all we know, Gwyneth Paltrow was there.

[Dana Schwartz]

I like to think she was.

[Lizzie Logan]

Even if it was supposed to be Winona Ryder.

[Dana Schwartz]

Was it?

[Lizzie Logan]

So this is like, the lore is that it was supposed to be Winona Ryder, which, when you think about it, kind of like on paper, makes more sense. She's a little bit more androgynous and more waify. Yes. More like a petite person. You would write, like, Twelfth Night around, except rather than Romeo and Juliet. And the story goes that they were best friends, and Gwyneth was over at her house and saw the script for Shakespeare in Love, like, on Winona's desk and was like, hello, can I steal your Oscar? And called the producers or whatever.

[Dana Schwartz]

I mean, I love that movie.

[Lizzie Logan]

We know who's great in that movie. Let's say it on three. One, two, three.

[Dana Schwartz]

Ben Affleck. He's really funny. Okay, so we don't know a lot about Shakespeare.

[Lizzie Logan]

Indeed.

[Dana Schwartz]

Except the exact plot of Shakespeare in Love, which happened canonically. Yes. One thing that we do know, and they did know at the time, is they have a deed that he bought, like, a house just as, like, an investment property. And that's one of the signatures we have of his cool. And Samuel was so excited because one of the subletters of that property, not even at the time Shakespeare owned it, to his knowledge, was a guy with the last name Ireland. And so he liked to pretend. I mean, it's possible. I mean, maybe it's true, but there's no, like, genealogy. But he was like, yeah, my ancestor lived in the house that Shakespeare owned. And so it gave him, like, a cool link to that.

[Lizzie Logan]

Yeah, I would totally. If that were me, I would say.

[Dana Schwartz]

That there's no proof of It. And there's no. Again, there's no proof that he was related to that, but there's no proof he wasn't. Exactly. And you know what? I'm gonna say chances are he probably was. How many Irelands are there?

[Lizzie Logan]

Well, two at least. Cause one of them is in the UK and one of them's not.

[Dana Schwartz]

Yeah, two Northern and regular.

[Lizzie Logan]

Yeah. Yeah, I've seen dairy girls.

[Dana Schwartz]

So William Henry, the son, is a mediocre student. His dad acts like he hates him. Everyone kind of thinks he's adult. He gets kicked out of his first school, kind of drops out of his next school, studies in France for a while and has a really good time. But basically, this is a kid that no one thinks is going to amount to anything. And he comes back to London and he gets a job as a clerk to a lawyer. And they call it the lawyer that he was working for, and I just love this phrase, was a conveyancer in chancery, which is basically a legal office for deeds.

[Lizzie Logan]

Okay.

[Dana Schwartz]

And when I say he got a job, this is like indent. He's not. That implies he was getting paid. They actually were paying the lawyer. It's like an internship.

[Lizzie Logan]

Okay.

[Dana Schwartz]

Because there's no law school at this time. You sort of like pass a law. You're apprenticing, you're apprenticing. You just work there for free. But actually you pay a little bit of money to. To learn the trade for a few years. So that's what he's doing. And he's in a lonely office. The lawyer that they hired, I guess, to train him gives zero shits about him. He's alone in this lonely office all day. There were two other people working in this office. One old guy who dies and one young guy who leaves. And so he's just clerking, surrounded by old legal deeds. Everyone thinks he's dumb. His dad hates him. He doesn't have a mom. Slash. The possible maternal figure in his life treats him like absolute garbage.

[Lizzie Logan]

Poor William Henry.

[Dana Schwartz]

So this is William Henry's life when he's a teenager. His dad, Samuel, is writing a travel book. Basically. The dad became semi successful doing little drawings and going to places around England and writing about it. And he goes to see Stratford Upon Avon. Sure. Stratford Upon Avon is famously Shakespeare's birthplace.

[Lizzie Logan]

Indeed. And I know that. And that's one of the five things I know about Shakespeare.

[Dana Schwartz]

A little bit more context for who Shakespeare is at this time and his reputation.

[Lizzie Logan]

This is like, what, like a hundred years after he died?

[Dana Schwartz]

It's like 100 and change 200. It's almost exactly 200 years after he was born.

[Lizzie Logan]

Okay.

[Dana Schwartz]

Because what's happening is when Shakespeare died, he was not that famous. He was relatively successful in his life, but was among a handful of really successful playwrights. He died pretty anonymously. And for the next hundred, 150 years or so, no one really cared about him. Which is also why we just don't have a paper trail of him. One, because no one was saving paper at that time. Paper was so expensive that if you had paper lying around, you would use it in book bindings, which is now like a fun fact. Every few days, you'll see a New York Times article that's like, oh, this famous document we found. They're usually finding them because they were used as book bindings in other books.

[Lizzie Logan]

Your algorithm is so different from mine, where you're like, oh, yeah, I totally see that once or twice a week. I'm not watching Taylor Swift and cat videos.

[Dana Schwartz]

But also that. So Shakespeare just, like, wasn't that important. No one, like, thought his stuff was worth preserving because he was kind of a nobody. And that sort of changes in the 1700s, mostly because of this one actor named David Garrick. Okay. And David Garrick was an incredible Shakespearean actor who was sort of the first naturalistic Shakespeare actor. And so the theater was becoming a big thing. The main actor was celebrating Shakespeare. David Garrick throws the biennial, like, the 200 year anniversary of Shakespeare's birth in Stratford upon Avon. And when he did that, people in Stratford there were some who had not heard of Shakespeare.

[Lizzie Logan]

Fascinating.

[Dana Schwartz]

So that's sort of what. Where it was like, people were going, people who, like, cared. But he wasn't like a known national thing. But that was slowly changing by the late 1700s. And so people are getting back into Shakespeare. But I think the other important thing that people should know about Shakespeare at this time, who was. His plays were super, super popular, but Georgian England was not precious about them. They changed. His play is a lot. If you went to see a performance of King Lear in the late 1700s, you might see a version with a happy ending. Cause that's what a Georgian audience wanted to see. Sure. And the theater people were just selling tickets. So Samuel Ireland comes to Stratford Upon Avon, and he's sort of determined that. He's like, I want to find a little Shakespeare tidbit.

[Lizzie Logan]

Okay.

[Dana Schwartz]

I want to get. Recently, a few years before this, they had discovered that gatehouse deed with Shakespeare's signature on it.

[Lizzie Logan]

Oh, gotcha. So he's like, maybe there's another one lying around here.

[Dana Schwartz]

Exactly. They only discovered that in 1768. And so they're like, well, surely there are more things Shakespeare signed. He's like, I'm gonna go find it. He goes to Stratford Upon Avon. Shakespeare's last residence was a place called New Place, and it was demolished by a guy, Sir John Clopton. And so he was like, oh, maybe Sir John Clopton's house, they had, like, taken stuff from Shakespeare's, and there's a crate of Shakespeare stuff. And so Samuel Ireland goes to Clopton House, and he's like, I'm here to see if you have any Shakespeare stuff lying around. And the current owners of Clopton House go, oh, my God, I can't believe you just came. Because it was literally two weeks ago. I think I was making a bonfire and there were all these old papers, and I just assumed no one wanted them, and I just threw them in the fire, honey. Isn't that right? And, like, the husband comes down and he's like, yeah, it was two weeks ago. We used them to clean the chimney, and we used them in the bird cages. We just didn't know. And the thing is, they were messing with him.

[Lizzie Logan]

Yeah, well, what I thought was gonna happen was they were gonna be like, yeah, we happen to have his old, you know, like, teacup. Do you wanna pay top dollar for it?

[Dana Schwartz]

Yeah. I mean, that also does happen. He goes to Anne Hathaway, Shakespeare's wife. Anne Hathaway's her childhood home. And they're like that chair Shakespeare sat on when he was wooing Anne Hathaway. Do you want to buy it? And yes, he did. Sure. But at this house, at Clapton House, when they were like, we burned it all. We didn't know anyone wanted it. The son, William Henry, is there, and, like, he kind of realizes they're messing with his dad. And I think he's embarrassed for his dad a little bit.

[Lizzie Logan]

Yeah.

[Dana Schwartz]

But the dad totally believes it and is like, you don't know what you've done. And they're like, whoops.

[Lizzie Logan]

Yeah. It's like when your parents post misinformation or, like, deep fakes and you don't want to be the one to tell them, but you also want someone to tell them.

[Dana Schwartz]

Yes. And also imagine your dad is the person most in the world you want to please and to live up to. And you're like, is my dad embarrassing? And the dad, at this moment, William Henry realizes that all that his dad wants is a Shakespeare signature. And the dad even says, I would give up half of my collection of books, of rare books for one Shakespeare signature.

[Lizzie Logan]

As would I.

[Dana Schwartz]

So William Henry gets an idea and he thinks, well, I work all day at a legal office surrounded by old books and old deeds constantly. Some of these deeds are from the 1500s when Shakespeare was around. Some of the paper is old. Maybe I could just see what happens. But he doesn't start with the Shakespeare forgery.

[Lizzie Logan]

No, you gotta work your way up to it.

[Dana Schwartz]

The year is 1794. And he finds in like a little used bookstore, an old book, a 200 year old prayer book. And it's not in great condition, but it's still old. And it's like prefaced with a dedication to Queen Elizabeth I. It's interesting to find a 200-year-old book, but it's not like incredibly valuable or important. But William Henry is like, maybe I can, you know, see what I can do. And so he gets some old paper from his office and he writes a fake preface, like a fake letter from the author to Queen Elizabeth I, as if this author was giving her this copy specifically to be like, oh, and I'm sending you this copy of my book specifically. He just watered down ink to make it look faded. To make it look faded. And because he had spent so long in his job copying out things, using what's known as secretary hand, he kind of knows how to do old timey writing. So he writes an old timey letter from this author to Queen Elizabeth. And before he goes to give it to his dad, he goes to a book binder in town. And this bookbinder, if you're like a lawyer, you would bring all your deeds there to get them bound into a big leather volume. And he goes to this bookbinder who knows him, and he's like, do you think this'll fool my dad? I did this as a prank. And the bookbinder looks at it and is like, I don't know, I'm convinced. And one of the bookbinder's assistants looks at it and is like, no, no, that ink just looks faded. And he mixes up, uses some like marbling dye and mixes up some ink and gives it to him and is like, use this and hold it over a fire and it'll look old.

[Lizzie Logan]

That is classic. I'm doing a report on the Middle Ages. Let me singe the edges and dye the paper with tea bags. And my teacher will add like half a point. Half a point because I made it look old times.

[Dana Schwartz]

Exactly what this is. He pays this anonymous assistant bookbinder a shilling for the vial of new ink. And I'm like, that guy. I want to know his story. Because he was. He had that in his pocket immediately.

[Lizzie Logan]

He was like, oh, you need. You need fake old ink.

[Dana Schwartz]

You're doing a forgery.

[Lizzie Logan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dana Schwartz]

He rewrites the letter, holds it over the fire. Like, the guy tells him to. To make the ink look old, and gives it to his. Shows it to his dad and is like, hey, I found this letter tucked in this old book. Doesn't it look authentic? And the dad's like, yeah, it looks authentic to me. And from that, he's like, great. Got my dad hook, line, and sinker again. He's trying to, like, figure out what the line is.

[Lizzie Logan]

You gotta test the waters.

[Dana Schwartz]

Exactly. And in another, like, used curio shop, he finds a small bust of Oliver Cromwell, who's a different person than Thomas Cromwell. William Henry sees this bust, and he's like, I think this is good, but it's done by a nobody. So my dad, who's so pretentious, won't think it's special or important. So he forges a letter and basically saying that Cromwell himself had given the bust as a gift to the judge who had presided over Charles I's execution. So, like, these two guys who, like, hated the king, they were buddies in real life. They were enemies, and they hated each other. Obviously, William Henry did not know that.

[Lizzie Logan]

Also, just going back to the version of history that William Henry is proposing is that, like, if you like, I would be like, dana, thank you so much for cutting off that guy's head. Here's a tiny version of my head for you to keep.

[Dana Schwartz]

I would think that that was crazy if I don't know someone. I work with someone, and I'm gonna beep out the celebrity's name. He worked for a celebrity's production company. Please beep out this name. And a gift that this person gave to him was a tiny bust of his head. And he's brought it to the office. It's incredible. So it happens. Yeah. Literally, a tiny bust of that.

[Lizzie Logan]

It's sort of the old times version of, like, giving a signed headshot to, like, your dry cleaner, except it's bigger and no one wants it.

[Dana Schwartz]

And the dad is like, this seems authentic and thinks that this sculpture is really important and invites over all of his art friends and. And they all think it's authentic. And they decide that this little sculpture that William Henry knows for a fact was done by a nobody. They decide, oh, it was definitely sculpted by this guy. Abraham Simon, who was like the famous sculptor of the day, and William Henry is like these snobs they're adding.

[Lizzie Logan]

So they're adding more levels to the hoax than even he intended.

[Dana Schwartz]

Exactly.

[Lizzie Logan]

They're adding Canon.

[Dana Schwartz]

They're adding Canon. And so to him he's like, not only can I pull this off, but everyone is a snob and a fake and they believe what they wanna believe. So now he's going to up the ante.

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I'm Gwen Washington, the host of Snap Judgment from KQED. Every week, we don't just tell stories, we drop you inside them. Real people, real voices, real moments that split a life in two. What do you believe? What do you risk? What do you want? Snap Judgment. New episodes every Thursday. Wherever you get your podcast.

[Lizzie Logan]

This message comes from Greenlight. Ready to start talking to your kids about financial literacy? Meet Greenlight, the debit card and money app that teaches kids and teens how to earn, save, spend wisely and invest with your guardrails in place. With Greenlight, you can send money to kids quickly, set up chores automate allowance, and keep an eye on what your kids are spending with real time notifications. Join millions of parents and kids building healthy financial habits together on Greenlight. Get started risk [e-mail] iheart Wasn't that delicious?

[Dana Schwartz]

So good. Your bill, ladies.

[Lizzie Logan]

I got it. No, I got it.

[Dana Schwartz]

Seriously, I insist.

[Lizzie Logan]

I insisted first.

[Dana Schwartz]

Don't be silly. You know, be silly. People with the Wells Fargo Active Cash credit card prefer to pay because they earn unlimited 2% cash rewards on purchases. Okay, Rock Paper, scissors for it.

[Lizzie Logan]

Rock, paper, scissors.

[Dana Schwartz]

Shoot. No. The Wells Fargo ActiveCash credit card. Visit Wells Fargo.comActiveCash terms apply. He first lays the groundwork, saying, telling his dad that he made friends with this gentleman who needed some legal chores done. That's like step one. And then a few days later, he's like, oh, my God, this gentleman invited me to his London home. And then the next little tidbit of information is like, oh, he knows I like rare old objects. He says he has this old trunk lying around and sometime I can, like, go through it and see what's in it. And the dad's like, that's interesting. So he's laid the foundation.

[Lizzie Logan]

William Henry sounds like a smart and kind of funny guy. And I don't understand why he didn't have any friends and everybody hated him.

[Dana Schwartz]

So he tells his dad, I made friends with this gentleman. Mr. H is the only way he'll ever refer to him. Cause he wanted to remain anonymous. But he has this old oak trunk and you can go. Not only can he go through it, he can keep anything he finds.

[Lizzie Logan]

This would be my dream as a child who was, like, into weird old stuff. Yeah, but it's fake.

[Dana Schwartz]

Meanwhile, his dad's copy of a 1790 Shakespeare book. You know how sometimes books, like important, like a consortium of Shakespeare stuff would have, like, a scan of an important letter or whatever?

[Lizzie Logan]

Sure.

[Dana Schwartz]

It had a print of the recently discovered deed that had Shakespeare's signature on it, like in the book that was printed. And so he's like, great, I have Shakespeare's signature. So he steals the book and practices Shakespeare's signature over and over and over again. And basically what he does is using old paper from his office and using this vial of ink that he got from the book binder. He almost word for word, but like, copies, homework. But you change it just enough so no one knows you copied the homework. The wording of the old deed that he found that was authentic and makes it a new deed that, oh, we don't know. Shakespeare had a new deed that was like a transaction between Shakespeare and his friend and fellow actor John Heming and this guy Michael Frazier and his wife. Shakespeare and Fraser, quote, unquote, sign this deed. And he signs Shakespeare copying Shakespeare's signature. And Frasier, he uses his left hand. And that's how he's like, I'll forge a signature.

[Lizzie Logan]

So what does he say that they. Does it matter what the deed is?

[Dana Schwartz]

No, it's just like, it's a transfer of property, but he's Keeping it really vague.

[Lizzie Logan]

I bought some, you know, lumber from you or whatever. Okay.

[Dana Schwartz]

And I think that's kind of his M.O. is to keep these transactions vague because you don't want anyone to be able to call you out on the specifics.

[Lizzie Logan]

Yeah.

[Dana Schwartz]

But the one hard part of this old forgery is these deeds had seals, like wax seals. And you can't, like, make a new, old wax seal. So he basically just steals an old wax seal from an old legal document from the time. And since he can't. You can't stick it. It's not sticky anymore. So he just uses new wax that then he made a little darker and look old with soot, which is real book report stuff. So he just sticks an old seal onto the document with some, like, new wax with a little soot in it.

[Lizzie Logan]

Again, he's a creative problem solver.

[Dana Schwartz]

Yeah.

[Lizzie Logan]

And I want to be his friend.

[Dana Schwartz]

And so he had laid the foundation for where he says, tells his dad I was going through that mysterious.

[Lizzie Logan]

He's done world building. He's created a narrative, and he presents.

[Dana Schwartz]

It to his dad and says, I found an old Shakespeare signature. And the thing that kind of breaks my heart is his dad is not as excited as he wants him to be. His dad looks at it and is, like, looks authentic. And even though the dad had, like, been like, if I find a Shakespeare signature, half of my rare books anyone could have. And he just tells his son, like, in exchange for this, you can have any one of my rare books. And the son is supposed to get half. He's supposed to get half. But the son even demures, and he's like, no, I'm okay, actually. And the dad's like, no, no, I insist. And he, like, gives him one of his rare books.

[Lizzie Logan]

Was the. Do you think the dad was sad that he hadn't found it himself?

[Dana Schwartz]

Maybe? And I think it's just, like, the personality of one of those guys. Like, he's just. He's just a bummer. He brings. But the dad wants to authenticate this, and he brings over an expert on wax seals. And this old wax seal expert looks at it and goes like, yep, this seal is from the 1500s, which it was. Even though it was stuck on with new wax, which this guy should have known. But this old seal expert also looks at it and goes, whoa. Do you know what the seal is?

[Lizzie Logan]

No. No.

[Dana Schwartz]

And they're like, no. And William Henry's like, I didn't even see anything. I didn't even notice. It's a thing. The seal expert goes, It's a thing called a quintain, which is basically the dummy that knights would practice jousting against. Like, if you're thinking of, like, Game of Thrones or whatever, someone's like, practicing a sword against, like, a dummy. And. But that's, like, what you would practice lancing against.

[Lizzie Logan]

How is that a seal?

[Dana Schwartz]

Well, like in the. In the. That's the design of the seal.

[Lizzie Logan]

Oh, that's like the picture on it.

[Dana Schwartz]

The picture on it.

[Lizzie Logan]

Okay, okay.

[Dana Schwartz]

You know, you choose whatever your little thing is.

[Lizzie Logan]

Okay, cool.

[Dana Schwartz]

And someone chose that. And this old seal expert goes, because it's. Shakespeare is so he's playing three dimensional trash.

[Lizzie Logan]

Oh, no. More lore.

[Dana Schwartz]

It's what you would shake a spear at. So it's definitely his seal. And so they get really, really excited.

[Lizzie Logan]

Listen, more lore. This is like. This is Swifties reading into everything Taylor wears and being like. It's a pun with seven layers.

[Dana Schwartz]

That's how smart Shakespeare is. Seven layers. The dad is like. He would shake a spear at it, obviously. Obviously. And the dad is like, you gotta go back to this trunk. Because if there was one Shakespeare deed in there, there's more. And the son I kind of think would have been done with one, but gets caught up in it. I think it feels good that his dad is excited. His dad's also pressuring him to find more. And I think it is both fun to trick people and also someone who had been called stupid and worthless his whole life. It's partly like, I'm creating a document that you think the greatest playwright in all of history wrote touched, but also like, I'm getting one over on you, so I'm not that stupid after all. Oh, yeah. So he decides that the anonymous Mr. H, who of course wants to remain anonymous because all of this is beneath him, says he can go back to the trunk. And this time, William Henry decides that he's going to write as Shakespeare. I.

[Lizzie Logan]

You gotta. It's the ultimate test.

[Dana Schwartz]

So it was a legal deed just with Shakespeare's signature, but now he's decided he's gonna write things as Shakespeare. And here's the part that I think is very, very interesting. He's going to write as Shakespeare and sort of create a fan fiction version of Shakespeare. That's who he wants him to be. So in the 1790s, I think people love and worship Shakespeare at this point. Theatrical people are like, shakespeare is the Bard. He's our God, like England's homegrown God. But there are still things about Shakespeare's life that people found a Little unsavory. The ghost in Hamlet. Hamlet's dad says something about, like, being in purgatory, like an illusion that people are like, oh, no. Was Shakespeare secretly Catholic? Which in the 1790s would have been, like, horrific. Yeah. And also there's, as you know, from Shakespeare in Love. Shakespeare was married to a woman named Anne Hathaway, but just left her in Stratford Upon Avon and sort of lived a bachelor's life in London.

[Lizzie Logan]

Yeah, he was making out with Gwyneth Paltrow.

[Dana Schwartz]

And in Georgian England, like, the. The sort of disrespect that Shakespeare treated his wife with was kind of unseemly. People just didn't like that about him. You don't want to believe that about Shakespeare. It sucks when an author that you love has beliefs or things about their life that don't line up with a perfect version of how you want them to be. But that has never happened to anybody.

[Lizzie Logan]

That has not happened since. It has not happened to any others. We've never had to cancel someone.

[Dana Schwartz]

We've never had to deal with that, where you love someone's work but them.

[Lizzie Logan]

We've never separated the art from the artist, and we never will.

[Dana Schwartz]

And we never will. But in Georgian England, they were kind of dealing with that.

[Lizzie Logan]

Gotcha.

[Dana Schwartz]

And he takes it upon himself that two of the things that he forges as Shakespeare. One is a declaration of his Protestant faith.

[Lizzie Logan]

Oh, handy, handy.

[Dana Schwartz]

And the other is a love poem to his wife, Anne Hathaway. One thing that I want to say, I'm going to send you an excerpt from this fake love poem.

[Lizzie Logan]

I have a feeling it's gonna be bad. Poetry's hard.

[Dana Schwartz]

One thing that I think is very, very funny and that people do start making fun of once these forgeries come out is that he writes old timey Shakespeare like a child would, in that he's adding e's to every word and double consonants. Like he's doing, like, fake old timey E oldy shoppy. And to be clear, that is not how people in the old times wrote. He's doing such an exaggerated version of it that. Spoiler alert. When this is revealed as a hoax, it just took someone reading it to be like. That is actually not etymologically consistent. But would you like to read the poem that Shakespeare wrote? Shakespeare quotes. Wrote to his wife, Anne Hathaway?

[Lizzie Logan]

Yes. And I'm going to read it in, like, normal words. So just know that there's extra letters in here, but I'm skipping them. Is there in heaven aught more rare than Thou sweet nymph of Avon, fair is there on earth a man more true than Willy Shakespeare is to you?

[Dana Schwartz]

It's like sweet. It's a little poem.

[Lizzie Logan]

It's literally, roses are red, violets are blue, there's no one else on earth more true than me to you. Like, it's, it's cute. It's not Shakespeare. You know when people are saying that writing is good but not Shakespeare, they go, well, it's not Shakespeare. This literally, it's not Shakespeare.

[Dana Schwartz]

It's not Shakespeare.

[Lizzie Logan]

It's not Shakespeare.

[Dana Schwartz]

And he's also filling in other pieces of Shakespeare's biography that people didn't know at the time. People always kind of wonder how Shakespeare had the money he had and he dedicated one of his poems to the Earl of Southampton. And so William Henry decides that the best way to just fill that little gap in is write a thank you letter from Shakespeare to the Earl of Southampton being like, thank you for the money. He doesn't give a specific number because he knows that, you know, if, if the evidence that he actually did give him that money came out, that it could be disproven. And then he also writes a thank you for the thank you from the Earl to Shakespeare, which is addressed Dear William, which is very casual for an earl writing to a commoner. But, you know, Shakespeare earned a thank you. One thing, a book about all of this which is very good, is called the Boy who Would Be Shakespeare. And one quote from that book that I think is very funny is they said Shakespeare and his circle were turning out to be more courteous than anyone imagined.

[Lizzie Logan]

Yeah, well, if, if, if your entire idea of stuff from history is thank you notes and thank you gifts. Yeah, everyone's got real good manners, I guess.

[Dana Schwartz]

He's also writing the earl's note just with his left hand. And again, the earl had good handwriting.

[Lizzie Logan]

Right. And also you're now forging things from a person who presumably we have more stuff from them.

[Dana Schwartz]

Yeah, there are samples of his handwriting. William Henry didn't know about that and didn't have access to them. But he was an earl. We have handwriting from him. It was good. It wasn't your, like left handed scroll.

[Lizzie Logan]

Like, William Henry is not like a dumb guy. He's doing this excellent so far hoax, like a commoner who lived 200 years ago, like might have left some stuff behind. We don't know what he looked like or, you know, et cetera, et cetera. But like an earl presumably has like living descendants who would be like, yeah, no, that didn't Happen.

[Dana Schwartz]

But it's like one of those things that people assume because Shakespeare had dedicated a poem to this Earl, that the Earl had given him some money. And this is just confirming the speculation that historians at the time understood. But the handwriting is a mess. He also writes a letter from Queen Elizabeth thanking, quote, good master to Rs William for some verses and requesting a command performance. It's kind of insane that the Queen herself, not like one of her scribes, would be writing this letter. And it's also kind of insane because this letter was dated in 1588, which was before Shakespeare started writing his own plays. So she was just writing to an actor that she liked.

[Lizzie Logan]

I mean, at this point, I'm starting to think this whole episode is the basis of Shakespeare. Does Tom Stoppard know about this? Is this what gave him the idea?

[Dana Schwartz]

Yeah. So he just keeps going. There's so much forgery happening. He buys a bunch of antique paper. He's keeping a supply of that special inked, all locked under the window seat in the lawyer's office. His kind of brilliant idea. Like, he's so clumsy at times, but he's also really smart. Like, he decides that the things should be tied with antique thread.

[Lizzie Logan]

Like, what?

[Dana Schwartz]

Cause they're like, carbon date it in 1790. But he and his dad had gone to a speech at the House of Lords and there was like, an old tapestry on the wall, and he just, like, pulled an old thread from the tapestry to use it. And he's trying to keep up the pace of all these forgeries. So what he does to kind of like, fill in when his dad is, like, impatient for something else is he's like, oh, this book used to be Shakespear, and, like, write some marginalia in. And sometimes he's like, I found the original longhand transcript of the plays. And so he just then copies the plays longhand. So what's happening now is these forgeries are a hit. People are so excited that they found this treasure trove of Shakespearean things.

[Lizzie Logan]

Can I ask, like, what's the. Like, is this being written about in the paper? Are people coming and looking at it in, like, a little display? Like, what's the goss? What's the news?

[Dana Schwartz]

That is exactly what's happening. Yes. And yes. It's like February 1795. That's when reporters start showing up. Like, an editor for a newspaper shows up. He says that that love letter that you said wasn't Shakespeare. He said, quote, that it had the utmost delicacy of passion and poetical spirit. So Many people want to come to the Ireland house to see all these artifacts that Samuel eventually has to, like, restrict visiting hours and eventually makes people buy a ticket.

[Lizzie Logan]

It's like when, you know, the face of Jesus shows up in a.

[Dana Schwartz]

In a grilled cheese sandwich or whatever.

[Lizzie Logan]

So we both recently watched that episode of Clay.

[Dana Schwartz]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. There are people who are making fun of this immediately. It's not. It's one of those situations where people love to be. People from the past were so dumb. No, there were absolutely people back then who immediately knew it was a forgery and were making fun of it. There was, like, a newspaper thing that someone wrote saying that, a magic trunk that was also providing a recent discovery of Shakespeare's favorite recipe for goodly plum pudding, which is, like, a funny joke.

[Lizzie Logan]

As we've established, it is the point of view of this podcast that people in the past were very dumb, and people now are also very dumb.

[Dana Schwartz]

Yeah. People in the past were as dumb and gullible as people today are. Yes, some are, some aren't. But really prominent people do show up and declare them authentic. One of them is Boswell. James Boswell, who's a famous biographer. He's the famous biographer. Samuel Johnson. But it's like, he's a guy, and the.

[Lizzie Logan]

Who's Samuel Johnson?

[Dana Schwartz]

He had a famous biography written by James Boswell.

[Lizzie Logan]

Well, what did he do to warrant a biography?

[Dana Schwartz]

He has, like, a big traveler. I don't know. I've never read it.

[Lizzie Logan]

Well, okay. I don't feel so bad not knowing who this famous traveler was.

[Dana Schwartz]

He was a writer. He just wrote a bunch of stuff in the 1700s. But the poet laureate at the time, Henry James Pye, he shows up, and Samuel, the pompous dad, who's so proud that he has all these Shakespearean things, makes everyone who shows up sign a certificate of belief because people in the press were being like, this is a forgery.

[Lizzie Logan]

But he's like, no, no, no. All these people can't be wrong.

[Dana Schwartz]

And he also decides a little later that he wants to publish all of these articles and things in a book. And he also basically makes people. Anyone who wants to come see them in person has to, like, pre order.

[Lizzie Logan]

Oh, sure.

[Dana Schwartz]

Which is kind of also a great way to do it. Meanwhile, the forgeries keep going. He keeps churning them out.

[Lizzie Logan]

At what point are they just, like, bring the whole trunk here? Like. Like the idea that, like, they keep finding one a week.

[Dana Schwartz]

Yeah.

[Lizzie Logan]

Is a little unbelievable to me.

[Dana Schwartz]

The really unbelievable part to me that's so funny is that Sometimes the finds are so convenient, it's hilarious. Like, one of the things that he found is this drawing of Shakespeare that I'm going to text you and I want you to describe it. It is what William Henry claimed was a self portrait that Shakespeare had done.

[Lizzie Logan]

It's like good in the way that.

[Dana Schwartz]

A 19 year old did it. There's like some shading.

[Lizzie Logan]

I can't deal with this. It looks like it was done with markers, which obviously it was not.

[Dana Schwartz]

It just.

[Lizzie Logan]

It looks like a doodle.

[Dana Schwartz]

It looks like a doodle.

[Lizzie Logan]

And it looks like someone wrote William Shakespeare with their left hand around it.

[Dana Schwartz]

And what I also love about this drawing is that Shakespeare is pointing at himself like, yep, it's me. And this is to Sam.

[Lizzie Logan]

Oh. And it says WS behind him because again, his name is William Shakespeare.

[Dana Schwartz]

His name is William Shakespeare. And to Samuel Ireland's credit, when he sees this one, he goes, nope, Shakespeare didn't do this one. Maybe it was like fan art. I don't know. He goes, like, Shakespeare's godly hand did not draw this.

[Lizzie Logan]

No.

[Dana Schwartz]

And I think William Henry was a little insulted by that because then there.

[Lizzie Logan]

Was a note that was like, dear diary, when I die, I'm gonna leave all my stuff in a trunk, including my self portrait, which is not bad.

[Dana Schwartz]

Basically it's a. Oh, this letter showed up and it was like Shakespeare writing a letter to an actor friend, being like, I'm enclosing a self portrait. Nothing serious, just a quote, whimsical conceit. Just dashed it off. I know it's not much.

[Lizzie Logan]

Okay. And again, like Mr. H, the fictional Mr. H, just happens to have not only stuff that Shakespeare would have had, like, in his possession, but that his friends would have had.

[Dana Schwartz]

Yeah.

[Lizzie Logan]

It doesn't seem sent them through the mails and the like, it. It's falling apart.

[Dana Schwartz]

Occasionally he'll cover it, cover that by being like. And I'm copying down the letter here for my record. Sure. But also, it gets even more convenient that Mr. H just has it not always in the trunk. Because remember how I said that they had discovered that deed, the real Shakespeare deed?

[Lizzie Logan]

Oh, yes.

[Dana Schwartz]

Like, you know, 10, 15 years earlier at this point. The guy who found that was a family friend. He, like, lived nearby.

[Lizzie Logan]

A family friend of the Shakespeare of the islands. Okay.

[Dana Schwartz]

It was a family friend of the Irelands. His name was Albany Wallace. And he goes, oh, this is crazy. I found a real signature from John Heming, who was a friend of Shakespeare and who, if you recall, William Henry had been forging letters to and from. And he goes, well, this is weird.

[Lizzie Logan]

The signature, it's one of the same handwriting.

[Dana Schwartz]

Yeah. This is really weird. The signature of this John Hemming does not look at all like the signature of that John Hemming. And William Henry's like, give me a minute. And he goes to, quote, unquote, Mr. H. To say, Mr. H. The signatures didn't match. And according to William Henry, Mr. H just chuckled and said, ho, ho, ho. And goes to his desk and pulls out a different signature and goes, well, do these match? That one is a signature of tall John Heming. The other one was a signature of short John Heming. Because, you see, there were two John Hemings who were actors working in this time. Everyone knew that one was at the Globe, one was at the Curtain Theater.

[Lizzie Logan]

Ha, ha ha.

[Dana Schwartz]

And everyone was satisfied, I guess.

[Lizzie Logan]

Yeah, totally.

[Dana Schwartz]

If you're thinking that these forgeries have gone a little far.

[Lizzie Logan]

Yeah.

[Dana Schwartz]

The one to me, where I'm like, people had to have realized this isn't real. Was another, like, will. Oh, like a will and testament that Shakespeare wrote because someone pointed out some, like, visitor to the house, was like, well, if Shakespeare has any living descendants, wouldn't all this stuff belong to them? And William Henry was like, oh, that's interesting.

[Lizzie Logan]

Did Shakespeare have living descendants? Do we know?

[Dana Schwartz]

So he did have kids. He had two daughters and a son.

[Lizzie Logan]

The son died.

[Dana Schwartz]

The son died. There's a whole book. And his daughters did have kids, but it ended right there. So he had grandchildren, but no further. Okay, but you're like, he lived in London having sex with Gwyneth Paltrow. It's possible he had a child out of wedlock.

[Lizzie Logan]

Sure.

[Dana Schwartz]

It's also possible we could discover that one of his grandchildren had a kid that we didn't know about. You know, it's like, it was open enough that there could be the discovery that he did have more descendants. We have not learned that, but someone was like, well, wouldn't. If we do, they would get the rights to all this stuff, wouldn't they? And William Henry's like, interesting, interesting. And he writes a new deed that Shakespeare wrote, a will and testament. Because remember, if you.

[Lizzie Logan]

By the way, all my stuff should go to Mr. H. Well, remember how.

[Dana Schwartz]

There was an Ireland ancestor who lived in the house that Shakespeare owned, was just a tenant. There's no evidence he even met Shakespeare. He just happened to live in a house that Shakespeare owned. This new will describes a scenario in which Shakespeare had fallen into the Thames and his good friend, also named William Henry Ireland, pulled him out of the Thames and saved his life. And as a reward for that, he makes the generous bequest to his good friend, Master William Henry Ireland. Again, an obscure London haberdasher that there we have no evidence ever met Shakespeare, Bequeathed him ownership to five of his plays and a gift of ten pounds. And it specifies that theatrical rights would go to Ireland's son and so on forever.

[Lizzie Logan]

This is like a bad doctor who episode Written by someone who has never been to England and is like what happens in the past. Shakespeare, what'd he do? Fell in the Thames.

[Dana Schwartz]

Fell in the Thames. And you know, what a coincidence that he also. One of the plays that he bequeathed to this William Henry was King Lear, which had not been written yet.

[Lizzie Logan]

You know, pitch, he's old, he's got some daughters.

[Dana Schwartz]

And this is one of those situations where then people fill in the blanks because there are some verses that Shakespeare had dedicated to a wh. And people are like, it was William Henry, his good friend, who rescued him from the Thames. Again, there are people at the time who do realize this is insane. Like, there's a joke. Someone writes that there's a letter is going to appear any day now announcing that Samuel Ireland was Shakespeare's grandson. Also, again, there are so many mistakes that later are so obvious. Again, King Lear had not been written by the time this deed is bequeathing it. And also, people in the 1500s did not have middle names. So the fact that he called him William Henry, it's like, that didn't make sense. But the people who are suspicious all are suspicious of Samuel the dad because he's the prominent collector.

[Lizzie Logan]

Gotcha.

[Dana Schwartz]

And also, not only would his son not be doing this, but, like, his son is famously adult.

[Lizzie Logan]

Oh, the classic. It's more likely that Shakespeare left all this stuff behind than a slightly stupid person could pull off a lie.

[Dana Schwartz]

Exactly. A dumb nobody couldn't pull off a lie.

[Lizzie Logan]

Which is exactly what they said about Shakespeare. A dumb nobody couldn't have written these plays.

[Dana Schwartz]

Yeah. The one time that William Henry did almost get caught, he writes a letter from Shakespeare saying that he received £50 from the earl of Leicester, Robert Dudley, for a performance from Shakespeare's troupe. He dated this receipt 1590, and he goes to give it to his dad. You know, just one of the many.

[Lizzie Logan]

Weekly Shakespeare artifacts that are coming from the giant trunk of artifacts.

[Dana Schwartz]

But Samuel Ireland looks at this and goes, well, this is weird, because the earl of Leicester famously died after leading troops after the Spanish armada, which happened in 1588. So why would Shakespeare have been getting money from him two years after he died. And the son panics. And Samuel. This is why I think also people to this day kind of think Samuel was complicit in this forgery, even though I don't know. Take, take for this what you will. The dad is like, no, no, there must have been a mistake somewhere. Someone probably copied out this receipt. Maybe this one was written by someone else. Maybe Shakespeare got the date wrong or was mixed up. And the son is like, should we burn this? Cause it's not right.

[Lizzie Logan]

It doesn't really make sense.

[Dana Schwartz]

And the dad is like, no, no, it has Shakespeare's signature on it. We don't want to burn it. He just rips off the date and keeps it among the collection.

[Lizzie Logan]

Well, that's not how you're supposed to do historical preservation.

[Dana Schwartz]

No, it's one of those things where I think Samuel wanted to believe this so badly and I think he genuinely the heart of his heart that he was willing to sort of dodge around anything that wasn't. That was evidence to the contrary.

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[Dana Schwartz]

So good. Your bill, ladies.

[Lizzie Logan]

I got it. No, I got it.

[Dana Schwartz]

Seriously, I insist. I assist. Don't be silly. You don't be silly. People with the Wells Fargo Active Cash credit card prefer to pay because they earn unlimited 2% cash rewards on purchase.

[Lizzie Logan]

Okay.

[Dana Schwartz]

Rock, paper, scissors for it.

[Lizzie Logan]

Rock, paper, scissors.

[Dana Schwartz]

Shoot. No. The Wells Fargo Active Cash credit card. Visit Wells Fargo.com ActiveCash Terms apply. The really sad part of all of this, the one that, like, really breaks my heart, is because, obviously, at a certain point, Samuel Ireland is writing to this mysterious Mr. H to be like, hey, can I get a look in your trunk? Also, can I meet you? Like, can I publish these? Like, we need to talk, dude.

[Lizzie Logan]

See? Okay, but this is also where I get to, like, there's a certain amount of disbelieving you can do about the life of Shakespeare, someone you're never gonna meet.

[Dana Schwartz]

Yeah.

[Lizzie Logan]

You're also fooling yourself about what your son is up to in a way.

[Dana Schwartz]

That'S real easy to check. Yeah.

[Lizzie Logan]

And you're not checking.

[Dana Schwartz]

He's not checking. But Mr. H, of course, is writing back.

[Lizzie Logan]

Well, no one could ever. I mean, you know, you couldn't write a letter from someone who didn't write the letter.

[Dana Schwartz]

Yeah, you couldn't. No. That would mean you're a forger. But the really sad part is that, like, Mr. H and Samuel the dad start having this correspondence, and, like, Mr. H will be writing these things. It's like, hey, I hear you've been looking askance at your son wearing his hair long. I assure you, that's the fashion these days. Boys are wearing their hair long and unpowdered, and, quote, you cannot be an enemy to the manner in which our Willie wore his hair. And then he also is writing these things, being, like, your son is such a good poet. Like, he showed me some of his poems, and this is the letter that, quote, Mr. H wrote to the dad. He goes, he tells me he is, in general, looked upon as a young man that scarcely knows how to write a good letter. I have now before me part of a play written by your son, which, for style and greatness, of thought is equal to any one of Shakespeare's. And so he's just writing these things to his dad to be like, your son is quite brilliant, I might say. And the dad is like, I and never thought that, but thank you. Isn't that sad?

[Lizzie Logan]

It is, yeah. But also like delusional.

[Dana Schwartz]

Delusional. But at this point, William Henry, who is 19, just, you know, he's a teenager, still decides it's like all going to his head. He's fooling all these people. Yes. Like some people are making fun of it, but like his dad fully believes it and all these prominent people believe it. I think he kind of starts to believe it himself and announces to his dad, I found new plays that Shakespeare's read.

[Lizzie Logan]

See, this is the money. This is the money find. Because ask people what they know about Shakespeare. They're not talking letters, deeds, or even sonnets. They're talking plays.

[Dana Schwartz]

And so he says that a new play he wrote, Shakespeare wrote is called Vortigen and Rowena. And it's about a 5th century English warlord turned king. And you know, to his credit, he basically Shakespeare pulled all of his like history plays from this, you know, Houndsedge Chronicles. So that's where William Henry got this story. And it's like King Lear meets Macbeth. Like he's not reinventing the wheel, but he does write this play.

[Lizzie Logan]

Is it similar to the true crime book that you mentioned earlier?

[Dana Schwartz]

Well, so this is the thing that I think is important about the true crime book, the little Easter egg. It's not really an Easter egg, it's more just like a thing that I think helps you understand why William Henry was doing this.

[Lizzie Logan]

Okay.

[Dana Schwartz]

In that book, the true crime book, there was like a long digression about another like true quote unquote crime thing that had happened recently at that time, which was a boy named Thomas Chatterley. And Thomas Chatterley was the 17 year old boy who claimed that he found all these poems from like an old monk, like a 5th century monk or whatever. Maybe not 5th century, but some old monk. And people were all excited about these poems. But then when they found out that he was a nobody, they didn't want to publish them. And of course he had written the poems, he was just claiming they were written by an old monk. And then when he tried to set and everyone loved the poems when they thought they were by an old monk. And then when he tried to set off on his own to make it as a writer, he failed and he killed himself. He committed suicide. And it's a sad thing that Happened. Thomas Chatterley was a real person. He died at 17. And he sort of became, like, a mythic figure to the Romantics, like, to Keats and Shelley. Like, Thomas Chatterley. Like, he was killed by the snobbery of the literary establishment. And the idea was that people only cared about his writing because he pretended it was old and written by someone else.

[Lizzie Logan]

I mean, this is, like, a very real phenomenon. Famous authors have, like, tried putting their work out there without their name on it, and it never goes anywhere. And then suddenly when it's. Oh, when we know that it's by so and so, suddenly it has all this literary merit and it can get published in the New Yorker and stuff.

[Dana Schwartz]

Yeah, exactly. And so I think that William Henry. I was gonna say to his credit. I don't think it's to his credit. Began, like, fancying himself a poet because he had written these love poems from Shakespeare to Anne Hathaway that experts are like, it's by Shakespeare. And he's like, maybe I'm a really good poet. And I think what he thought is that this play would go on eventually, it would be outed as a forgery, but that it would be so good that people would still be excited and would still, like, want him to be a poet, and that he was just sort of launching his own career. Because forgery at that time was kind of a thing that was happening. People were aware of Thomas Chatterley as this tragic figure. And so I think that's how he thought of himself. And so he writes Vortigern and Rowena, a whole play. And to make it really hard on himself, he's giving pages to his dad as he goes, so he can't even, like, go back and read pages.

[Lizzie Logan]

That seems like a tactical error.

[Dana Schwartz]

Tactical error. But he was impatient. His dad was impatient. And it's a long play. If this was by Shakespeare, it would have been one of Shakespeare's longest plays.

[Lizzie Logan]

Has anyone ever done it?

[Dana Schwartz]

Well, funny. They do it.

[Lizzie Logan]

Oh, okay.

[Dana Schwartz]

The Drury Lane Theater, like, one of the main theaters in London. There's a bidding war. The two main theaters are like, we want to do the lost Shakespeare play. And they bid on it. And the Drury Lane Theater is like, we want to do it and put it on. And they buy it and they get it. And Sheridan, the guy who, like, manages and runs the house, is like, oh, not very good. And so they basically hire a ghostwriter to make it a little better.

[Lizzie Logan]

Fair enough. You know, far be it from me to critique the greatest writer who ever lived, but I saw PYGMALION Not Pygmalion. What am I thinking of? Cymbeline?

[Dana Schwartz]

Yeah, it's a Shakespeare.

[Lizzie Logan]

Kind of a slog.

[Dana Schwartz]

Kind of a slog. And as I said, as we said.

[Lizzie Logan]

Before, he had a couple clunkers, as.

[Dana Schwartz]

We said before, about King Lear. Like, people were doing rewrites to Shakespeare back then. Like, it wasn't considered crazy. So even the people who did believe that this was by Shakespeare was, like, it was an early work, and it's not great. So let's, you know, file the edges. The main actor, the main Shakespearean actor of the theater is named John Philip Kemble. And he has kind of thought this was a scam the whole time. And he is not excited to be doing this play. He thinks it's all bullshit.

[Lizzie Logan]

A man of integrity.

[Dana Schwartz]

He doesn't think the play is very good, but they signed this contract. They're putting it on. Meanwhile, William Henry's getting excited, and he decides that he's gonna write another play.

[Lizzie Logan]

Oh, dear.

[Dana Schwartz]

And he's writing plays that, like, plausibly could have. Like, there are lost Shakespeare plays. And so he's writing plays that, plausibly, Shakespeare could have written. And he writes, henry ii, quote, unquote, by Shakespeare.

[Lizzie Logan]

Or isn't it Love's Labor's Found is like, the one. Oh, is it?

[Dana Schwartz]

Because isn't it? I mean, there was Love's Labor's Lost and Love's Labor's Found. Yeah.

[Lizzie Logan]

Isn't it supposed to be, like, somewhere out there one day there was Love's Labors found.

[Dana Schwartz]

Yeah. And it makes sense that there would be a. You know, Henry ii, he wrote a bunch of histories. And William Henry's like, shoot, this one's better. I should have started with this one. But it's too late for that because the jury Lane is putting on Vortigan and Rowena, even though it's not very good. I think they even know it's not very good. But they're like, look, it's going to be a scandal either way. All press is good press. They don't. The Jury Lane Theater does not say on the advertising that this is by Shakespeare.

[Lizzie Logan]

Well, that's error numbers one through two.

[Dana Schwartz]

No, it's smart. They know that they can't, like, legally say it's by Shakespeare. Well, you're not gonna sell any tickets then. No, the opposite. They sell out because it's a known scandal at the time. Like, the fact that this is a lost Shakespeare play that they're putting on is known at the time, and it sells out. It is the first time Drury Lane, the theater was remodeled with, like, more than 3,000 seats recently. And it was the first time it sold out because there are these factions, the people who believe and the people who don't believe. And it's like, come see for yourself. Is it real? Is it not real? Kemble, the main actor who's also a part owner of the theater, schedules the premiere for April 1st.

[Lizzie Logan]

This is my kind of guy.

[Dana Schwartz]

But Samuel is so mad that he makes them move it to April 2. Sarah Siddons, who is, like, the main Shakespearean actress. Maybe you've heard of her. Sarah Siddons?

[Lizzie Logan]

No, but we are post men playing women.

[Dana Schwartz]

Yes.

[Lizzie Logan]

Okay.

[Dana Schwartz]

Women are playing women.

[Lizzie Logan]

Women are playing women. Again, Shakespeare in Love is a historical document, and you can learn about Elizabethan culture through it.

[Dana Schwartz]

You can. At this point in the 1790s, women play women. The most famous. One of the most famous actresses is Sarah Siddon. She drops out before opening night. She's also Kemble's sister. They're like a brother sister, but. And she says she's ill, which maybe she is, but also maybe just, like, didn't want to get involved with this. But the other most famous Shakespearean lady, Dorothea Jordan, who was the mistress of the king's son, one of the king's many sons, like, she was, like, a really prominent lady, like, a really famous actress. She's in it, okay? And the play is scheduled to go off. But before the play happens, there was one fatal error that Samuel made. Samuel had been inviting people into his house to look at these old documents. And, you know, in context with him, like, standing over your shoulder and, like, by candlelight, like, you're like, oh, these look old. The paper looks old. I guess it's real. He decides, as I alluded to earlier, that he's going to publish all of these findings in a book. And he does, and he publishes them Christmas Eve, 1795. It sells really well.

[Lizzie Logan]

But the problem is now people can sit at home and look at it and be like, this is fake.

[Dana Schwartz]

Now that people look at it, they're like, this looks dumb as hell. And so remember, the show is premiering April 1. The book publishes Christmas, okay? And so that's the period where the actor's like, this is bullshit. Cause you're going to dinner with all these people. And people are like, no, this is fake. And so I think the actors are embarrassed. And two days before the play is scheduled to premiere, Malone, Edmund Malone, who's the big Shakespearean scholar of the era, drops what they thought was gonna be a pamphlet. As a little takedown, he drops a 424 page hardcover book. Like, he brought receipts. Like, it has tons of footnotes of why this is fake.

[Lizzie Logan]

This is the they're not like us.

[Dana Schwartz]

This is the they're not like us.

[Lizzie Logan]

It is this era.

[Dana Schwartz]

Absolutely relentless. What he gets wrong, though, is he thinks that there's too much for a single person to have done. And he also thinks that Samuel and his dumb idiot son didn't do it. He thinks they were duped by this mysterious Mr. Horror. But he goes through, like, the spelling, the timing, the grammar. He's a Shakespearean expert and knows that these are fakes. But the book is so long and boring that he reads it. It's actually not quite the body blow you would think it is. So that's just sort of a letter. And it's also. He's really condescending. Like, people don't like this guy. So there are still loyalists who are like, he's just being a snob. So the play premieres with these two rival factions who are just sort of at each other's throats like, it's a real Shakespeare. It's a forgery.

[Lizzie Logan]

This should be a movie.

[Dana Schwartz]

Yeah, it's good, right? It's a rowdy crowd. It's mostly men, which I just think is important for, like, context of why there's so many, like, catcalls. The show is a disaster. People are constantly interrupting. And also Kemble, the main actor who wanted to schedule it for April Fool's Day, sort of sabotages it. He's the main actor, but he also is a part owner of the theater. He cast it. He casts, like, comic actors in small roles. Even though it's a tragedy, makes people laugh. And then sometime towards the end of the play, there's a line where he goes. And when this solemn mockery is ended and everyone cracks up, and then he repeats the line, like, really hamming it up. And then there are fights that are happening between factions in the audience. And after the show, there's so much like, chaos and heckling and catcalling that Kemble is only able to restore calm when he says, we're not gonna do the show anymore. It was a one night only. I'm not doing it anymore. So now that show's over, William Henry, I think, kind of realizes, like, it's the end of the line. And he, I think, also, like, wanted people to believe it was him and it was real. But now that this book came out, he's like, no one's gonna really believe this anymore.

[Lizzie Logan]

Cause then you don't get the credit for the discovery. And you also don't get the credit for the hoax. Cause everyone thinks he's just too stupid.

[Dana Schwartz]

And also, his dad is being, like, mocked in the newspapers. There's another play that comes out, like, making fun of a pretentious collector who's like, his dad.

[Lizzie Logan]

It's the type of thing I would do.

[Dana Schwartz]

Yeah. But he's, like, embarrassed. And so he confesses to his sisters. He tells his sisters, I did all of these. And the sisters go to the dad. And the dad's like, he's lying to you. He's trying to take the glory of Shakespeare's words. Like, not only is he lying, he's being arrogant and deceitful. That he would, like, even lie and say he did these Shakespeare things. Like, could you imagine the arrogance of saying you wrote a thing that Shakespeare.

[Lizzie Logan]

Wrote a horrible play that everybody hated?

[Dana Schwartz]

So finally, he just decides that he needs to confess everything. He goes to that family friend, Albany Wallace, the one who discovered your actual deed and the signature, and is like, I'm just gonna tell you everything. And eventually, he's able to convince him that he did forge him by, like, showing him that he can forge Shakespeare's signature. And Wallace basically tells him, like, keep your mouth shut. Just, like, let it die down. So by May 1796, William Henry is, like, basically having a nervous breakdown. He leaves his clerkship. He says he's getting married to a rich young woman. But when he gives the name, that woman doesn't exist. And then he's like, oh, I meant this. This other woman. But, like, that woman doesn't exist either. His dad and Mrs. Freeman are getting sort of fed up by his chaotic whatever. And so they go to the country, and William Henry tries to confess to his dad in writing. And his dad rejects. Basically rejects the confession and is like, not only do I not believe you, but if you did this, keep your mouth shut.

[Lizzie Logan]

Yeah.

[Dana Schwartz]

He goes, your character, if you insist on this, will be blasted. Because basically he. William Henry, is saying, I want to confess. And he wants to absolve his dad, but he also kind of wants to make a profit. Like, he's just, like, broke and lost at this point. He does get married right before he turns 21, to this random woman named Alice Crudge, which is classic random woman name.

[Lizzie Logan]

That is Roald Dahl levels of random woman name.

[Dana Schwartz]

Basically, no one knew this woman. We only people were like, whoa, who's they? Like, see him walking with her in the park, like, a family friend. It was like, whoa, who's this? You got married? Like, he's real. Like, shave his head, bleach it blonde, going through a crisis. And he doesn't really have any money. He hasn't talked to his dad in months. He goes to Wallace, this, like, trusted family friend, and is like, look, can you mediate between me and my dad? I'm gonna publish a confession pamphlet because I want to clear my dad's name, and also, I want to make a little money off it. People will buy this pamphlet. And so Wallis is like, okay, I'll help you mediate. Brings the dad in and shows him the pamphlet. And, like, the dad who's so mean to his son is like, I don't even think you could have written this. Who wrote this pamphlet for you? He publishes his account. It sells well, even though some people don't believe it. Some people just think it's all fiction. That it was his dad who was the forger all along, or that it was this mysterious Mr. H. Is there.

[Lizzie Logan]

Anyone left who's like, no, it's Shakespeare. They're just being weird about it?

[Dana Schwartz]

Yes, the dad. I mean, the dad is still, like, it. Still Shakespeare.

[Lizzie Logan]

But no, like, other people.

[Dana Schwartz]

Not really.

[Lizzie Logan]

Because he confessed.

[Dana Schwartz]

You could, I guess, people who, like, aren't paying attention to the news. Sure, I'm sure. People who, like, heard about it and then stopped caring about it are like, oh, they found some Shakespeare stuff. And, like, never looked into that again. Really heartbreakingly, at the end of his confession, he's like, and if I attempt another play, I hope the public can put its prejudices aside and, like, you know, judge it with an open heart. And it's like, babe, at this point, people aren't gonna take you seriously.

[Lizzie Logan]

You're not getting another job.

[Dana Schwartz]

You're not getting another job. But, you know, he's trying, and he actually. He makes a decent living as a writer for the rest of his life. Using a lot of pseudonyms.

[Lizzie Logan]

Sure.

[Dana Schwartz]

He sort of writes Gothic novels. Just sort of like, generic, forgettable Gothic novels and some histories and biographies. Another unproduced play. Eventually, to make money, he starts selling, like, quote, unquote, authentic copies of the forgeries. Because he was notorious for these forgeries. He had confessed. And so people want, like, oh, can you write me, like, the Shakespeare letter to Anne Hathaway that you wrote? So he starts selling those to make money. Samuel, his dad was utterly humiliated. Tries to publish his own defense, still claims the papers are real. Goes with the short and tall John Hemings defense. But at that point people have stopped engaging with him. Yeah, it's like no one even writes back to like be like, no, no, they're, they're fake.

[Lizzie Logan]

Right.

[Dana Schwartz]

No one engages the war. It's like a one sided Twitter war at that point. And Samuel dies without ever reconciling with his son.

[Lizzie Logan]

Oh Christ.

[Dana Schwartz]

And William Henry had like kept writing to his dad like all these sad things. He like wrote to his dad once really angrily demanding to know who his real parents were. Yeah, it's really sad, the ending. In an unpublished memoir, William Henry went a little atonement and wrote like a fictional version of going to see his dad at his bedside as he was dying. And he recounts and his dad had tears in his eyes of happiness and said that like you were the only joy in my life. But like there's no evidence that he ever actually saw his dad again. It's like kind of a really sad scene. The obituaries of Samuel are merciless. All of his collectibles that he had amassed, like they sell them after he died, but they are all kind of worthless because no one, he's like now famous as a forger. And so all of his collectibles are worthless. Basically the only one who. The only collectibles he had that sell kind of well are the original forgeries. And they sell for like what $17,000 would be today. After Mrs. Freeman, his like housekeeper slash wife baby died. One of the daughters, Jane Ireland, had all of the like folios of all these forgeries burned like the copies of the book that the dad published. She burns all of them. Cause she's like, I'm just done with this.

[Lizzie Logan]

Yeah.

[Dana Schwartz]

William Henry's wife dies, he remarries to make more money. He writes like a longer confession. And in that version he ages himself down to 17, I think. Cause he thinks it's a little more winning if he did it younger.

[Lizzie Logan]

Yeah, it's more. Well A, it's more impressive and B, it's more like forgivable.

[Dana Schwartz]

Yeah. And so he writes this confession. It's sort of self aggrandizing. It's not very apologetic. He's like pretty proud of himself. He's pretty proud that he fooled these people into thinking he was Shakespeare.

[Lizzie Logan]

I would be as well.

[Dana Schwartz]

And so he Sundays he was 17, which was also the age that Thomas Chatterton was when he committed suicide. This sort of romantic figure. But he was 19 throughout all of this. He was older and again working. He had a job, he was an adult. But yeah, he's Sort of caught between apologetic and he knows it ended badly, but he's also kind of proud. And I think for the first time in his life during all this, he felt important.

[Lizzie Logan]

It's also, like, I don't know how apologetic he really needs to be if, like, it was a mostly victimless crime that didn't last very long, you know? Like, I don't. If you do a hoax that ends up that gets a bunch of people sick or something, I'm like, you need to fucking apologize. But if you do, like, a literary hoax that lasts, I don't know, two.

[Dana Schwartz]

Years, a year and a half.

[Lizzie Logan]

A year and a half. I'll take one apology. I don't need more than that.

[Dana Schwartz]

Yeah, I don't. Like, again, it's not like he was, like, forging a deed to a house, and he's like, and now I live in this house. He, like. He didn't really profit. I guess his dad did. They didn't. He didn't make a ton of money. Yeah, he's just such an interesting, contradictory figure because, like, him writing these Shakespearean artifacts is imbuing, like, a sense of importance to the literary establishment. And so he, like, is worshipful of the literary establishment, but also really resentful of it because he's like, they're all frauds, and they're only thinking, this poetry is good because Shakespeare wrote it. But also, it is good because I wrote it. And maybe I'm another Shakespeare. And I do think he, as he was writing some of these plays, was like, hey, Shakespeare was a glovemaker's son. He was a nobody. And he had the music, maybe I am another Shakespeare. And it's like, he also was desperate for his father's approval and, like, wanted his father to love him so badly, but also was, like, making his father look like a fool. It's a real, like, Oedipal situation of, like, you want your dad to love you, but you also want to one up him.

[Lizzie Logan]

Well, it's also like, why does my dad love Shakespeare? So what am I gonna do?

[Dana Schwartz]

Be Shakespeare? Yeah.

[Lizzie Logan]

I'm gonna sit in my room and pretend to be Shakespeare.

[Dana Schwartz]

So that's the story of William Henry Ireland, who wrote and produced an unseen.

[Lizzie Logan]

Shakespeare play seen by one crowd one time.

[Dana Schwartz]

One crowd, one time. The second one, Henry ii, which he thought was pretty good. The other theater was going to put it on, but then once everyone was like, these are not real. They were like, nope, we're not doing this.

[Lizzie Logan]

See, I think I would totally go to a night of scenes from Forged plays.

[Dana Schwartz]

It's kind of interesting. They're not very good.

[Lizzie Logan]

Yeah, just snippets. I don't wanna watch the whole two hour thing.

[Dana Schwartz]

I want like a taste, a few scenes. Yeah. I admire his guts. He took it so much further than I think any rational person would've.

[Lizzie Logan]

Definitely not normal.

[Dana Schwartz]

I think my favorite fact is that Shakespeare himself was rescued from the Thames by his ancestor and he bequeathed all of his plays and some of his plays to him.

[Lizzie Logan]

That's some real fan fiction shit. That's like. Let me tell you about the time I met Harry Styles and he told me I was pretty.

[Dana Schwartz]

It is. He was writing the version of Shakespeare that people wanted to believe in, which is, I think, why they believed in this hoax so much. We don't know a lot about Shakespeare's life, but I do think people have an idea of who Shakespeare is in their heads, of who you want Shakespeare to be. Because when you love someone's work, you want them to be a certain way. But we don't know who Shakespeare was. Kind of the evidence is that he was sort of a shitty person. He once sued a neighbor over like a really small amount of money and he left his wife in his will, his second best bed. And that doesn't take away from, if you like, his plays. But William Henry knew that he was playing into a version of Shakespeare that people wanted to believe in. And England had cast Shakespeare as their hero. And so it also felt very anticlimactic in the 1790s that they just didn't have any physical things of his. Yeah, Lizzie, this episode was very, very long. But where can the good people find you? Where can we plug.

[Lizzie Logan]

Yes, so you can email us and pretend to be Shakespeare and send us a poorly worded email at Hoax the podcast indeed. And we'll, you know, we're gonna get our Instagram up and running. We'll post some of the self portrait of Shakespeare that really delighted me and made me laugh. Check it out there you can follow me.

[Dana Schwartz]

Dana Schwartz with three Z's at the end and our Instagram, which is linked in the bio. Thank you so much for listening.

[Lizzie Logan]

Please Hoax responsibly. Hoax is a production of iHeart podcasts. Our hosts are Dana Schwartz and Lizzie Logan. Our executive producers are Matt Frederick and Trevor Young with supervising producer Rima El Kayali and producers Noams Griffin and Jesse Funk. Our theme music was composed by Lane Montgomery. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening. Every day has a to do list.

[Dana Schwartz]

But adding Enjoy Belvita to yours can.

[Lizzie Logan]

Help you knock out the rest of it.

[Dana Schwartz]

Belveda Breakfast Biscuits are a tasty and convenient breakfast option when paired with low fat yogurt and fruit that provide steady energy all morning while Belvita Energy Snack Bites give you the perfect mid morning refuel. Best part? They both taste great so make the.

[Lizzie Logan]

Most out of your morning with a bite of Velveeta.

[Dana Schwartz]

Pick up a pack of Velveeta at your local store. Today the day begins at the Chase Sapphire Lounge by the club at Boston Logan Airport. You get the clam chowder in San Diego, it's Tostadas New York Espresso Martini. It's 10:00am why not? It's the quiet before your next flight. The shutter that resets your day, the menu that lets you know where you are. This is access to over 1300 airport lounges and every Sapphire Lounge by the club and one card that gets you in Chase Sapphire Reserve the most rewarding card.

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[Dana Schwartz]

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[Glen Washington]

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[Martine Hackett]

Untold stories Life with a severe autoimmune condition. A production from Ruby Studio in partnership with Argenics is back with Season four. Join me, Martine Hackett, as we explore the realities of life with myasthenia gravis or MG and chronic inflammatory demyelinating polyneuropathy or cidp. We'll uncover the stories of resilience and self advocacy in the face of uncertainty. From overcoming misdiagnosis to finding empowerment in small victories, these are moments that change us. Here's a glimpse of what's in store.

[Dana Schwartz]

Whenever I go to my specialist, he mentions the R word Remission. Is it possible? Like is it over? But also knowing it's never really over. But just being able to say, hey there, there's light at the end of the tunnel. Stay the course. Don't give up on yourself. Every single person living with the autoimmune illness has a life worth living, and it's up to you to define that, to capture that, and to go guns blazing.

[Martine Hackett]

Follow and listen to untold Stories on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Dana Schwartz]

This is an iHeart podcast.