Podcast Summary: Hold These Truths with Dan Crenshaw

Episode: Beyond the Blue Bin: Advanced Recycling | Ross Eisenberg
Date: October 25, 2025
Host: Dan Crenshaw
Guest: Ross Eisenberg, President of America’s Plastic Makers (American Chemistry Council)

Episode Overview

In this episode, Congressman Dan Crenshaw hosts Ross Eisenberg to dive deep into the future of plastics recycling—moving “beyond the blue bin.” The conversation focuses on the emerging field of advanced recycling, contrasts it with traditional methods, examines the economic and environmental challenges, and explores the role of government policy and international efforts in combating plastic waste.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Mechanical vs. Advanced Recycling

• Mechanical (Traditional) Recycling:

  • Most familiar method; involves grinding and melting plastics to remake products.
  • Effective mainly for certain types of plastics (e.g., bottles), but not for films, bags, or multi-material items.
  • Labor-intensive, requires sorting and often cleaning.
  • Quote [03:01] Ross: “It doesn't work for a lot of plastics, particularly some of the bags, the films, and shrink wrap... Advanced recycling... can basically take all these other things.”

• Advanced (Chemical) Recycling:

  • Uses techniques (e.g., pyrolysis) to break plastics down to raw molecular components, making new, high-quality plastics from a wider range of waste.
  • "Like unbaking a cake": separates plastics into base ingredients, which can be reused for any application, including food or medical grade materials.
  • Quote [03:26] Ross: “It’s like unbaking the cake. Right. So imagine you had a cake. You can actually just unbake that cake and turn it back into flour and eggs and milk... and then bake that cake again and again and again.”

2. Challenges in the Recycling Industry

• Sorting and Contamination:

  • Many products use multiple types of plastics, and contamination (like residual liquids) complicates recycling.
  • [04:34] Dan: “But also, like what happens if there's still liquid in it?... It's very highly labor intensive.”

• Economic Incentives:

  • Landfilling is currently cheaper than recycling for many materials.
  • The biggest challenge is obtaining enough clean, sorted plastic waste as feedstock.
  • [05:00] Ross: “It is still generally cheaper to landfill that stuff... What we need to figure out is how to get it from that blue bin... and get it all recycled.”

3. Common Recycling Misconceptions

• Paper & Metal vs. Plastics:

  • Cardboard and aluminum have high recycling rates; paper towels and colored glass are more complex.
  • Black plastics often evade recycling machinery since optical sorters can't “see” them.
  • [07:02] Ross: “Black plastics... The color black... it doesn't see black, and so it doesn't do anything with them.”

• U.S. Role in Ocean Plastic Pollution:

  • U.S., EU, and Australia account for only a fraction (0.3%) of ocean plastic pollution; majority originates from Asian rivers.
  • [09:01] Ross: “US, EU, and Australia combined is literally just 0.3% of global plastic pollution.”

4. History & Dynamics of Global Recycling

• Much of America’s recyclables were previously shipped to China—until China banned imports ("National Sword" policy), leading to more domestic disposal.
• Calls to modernize U.S. infrastructure and upgrade to advanced recycling technologies.
• [10:13] Ross: “So it's a great opportunity for us to modernize the stuff here... and that's frankly where advanced recycling comes in.”

5. Scaling Advanced Recycling

• Multiple modes: standalone plants (e.g., in Atlanta, Akron) or within refineries (e.g., ExxonMobil, Baytown).
• Biggest obstacles: sourcing feedstock, municipal system complexity, permitting and regulatory uncertainty.
• [13:57] Dan: “...it's just really hard to build one of these in the United States. It's just getting the permits and all this other stuff.”

6. Government Policy and Legislative Solutions

• States differ in regulatory treatment—25 (including Texas) legally define advanced recycling as manufacturing (helping with investment certainty).

• [20:08] Ross: “25 states have... in place a law that says that... advanced recycling is a manufacturing process.”

• Environmental pushback: Some activists seek to define chemical recycling as "waste incineration", which precludes recycled-content labeling.

• [15:26] Ross: “There are folks that just don't want plastic. If you can recycle the plastic and keep it in the economy, you still have plastic and folks don't want plastic.”

• Producer responsibility programs (like bottle deposit bills) increase recycling rates but can be contentious and are more common in Europe.

7. Global Plastic Treaty Negotiations

• UN efforts in Geneva seek a binding agreement on reducing marine plastic pollution.
• Three sticking points: outright plastic production bans (EU), chemical regulation (ban lists), and financing (especially regarding China).
• [25:57] Ross: “There are countries that strategically see a need to do it the hard way, right, to start banning things. EU is one of them... then there's... plastic producing countries, [US], China, Middle East, Brazil, Japan, Korea, who are pushing back.”

8. Plastics, Economics, and Energy

• U.S. plastic industry has boomed—especially due to cheap natural gas from shale, serving as feedstock.

• America now has a significant trade surplus in plastic polymers.

• [27:24] Ross: “Since 2010, there have been about 200 billion worth of new starts in the chemical industry just from shale gas. 40 billion of that has been plastics.”

• Most high-value/resin manufacturing is done in the U.S.; much molding (consumer goods) is done in China due to economic factors.

9. Environmental and Societal Role of Plastics

• Plastics are essential not just for packaging and consumer goods, but for food safety and life-saving medical technologies.

• [15:53] Ross: “Plastic kept that guy alive... Plastic keeps us alive every single day. You have potable water, clean water, because of plastic.”

• Replacing plastics with alternative materials often increases the environmental footprint (called “regrettable substitution”).

• [17:51] Ross: “Regrettable substitution is what researchers will say... the can of soda is going to have a higher greenhouse gas sort of [footprint] than the bottle of soda.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Advanced Recycling's Analogy:

  • Ross Eisenberg [03:26]:
    “It's like unbaking the cake... you can actually just unbake that cake and turn it back into flour and eggs and milk... and then bake that cake again and again and again. That's advanced recycling.”

• On Policy Fights Over Definitions:

  • Ross Eisenberg [15:26]:
    “There are folks that just don't want plastic. If you can recycle the plastic and keep it in the economy, you still have plastic and folks don't want plastic... It's a shame because obviously we need it.”

• On the Difficulty of Domestic Recycling:

  • Dan Crenshaw [13:57]:
    “It's just really hard to build one of these in the United States. It's just getting the permits and all this other stuff.”

• On U.S. Impact on Ocean Plastic:

  • Dan Crenshaw [08:59]:
    “I want to say US EU and Australia combined is literally just 0.3% of global plastic pollution. So we make a lot of the plastics. But... the pollution is coming from largely Asian countries.”

• On the Importance of Plastics in Daily Life:

  • Dan Crenshaw [16:30]:
    “Everything you're wearing right now has some form of plastic in it... human prosperity and health has grown dramatically because of plastic, not the opposite.”

• On Producer Responsibility Systems:

  • Ross Eisenberg [21:32]:
    “Producer responsibility does work... You're essentially paying a fee on the product so that you can recover that product.”

• On American Plastics Competitiveness:

  • Ross Eisenberg [27:38]:
    “Because we have shale gas, we have a competitive advantage. And so the US has just dominated.”

Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• [02:13–03:37]: Advanced vs. Mechanical Recycling Explained
• [05:31–07:49]: Sorting, Materials, and Recycling Misconceptions
• [08:02–10:34]: China’s Ban & Domestic Modernization Opportunity
• [10:55–13:57]: Scaling, Feedstock, & Permitting Challenges
• [15:02–17:51]: Environmental Politics, Plastics Alternatives, and Substitution Costs
• [20:08–22:07]: State Definitions, Producer Responsibility, and Legislative Concepts
• [23:36–26:23]: Global Plastics Treaty Negotiations
• [27:24–29:45]: US Plastics Supply Chain & Trade Dynamics
• [31:19–32:55]: Advanced Recycling, Energy Dominance, and EU De-industrialization

Closing Thoughts

Dan Crenshaw and Ross Eisenberg emphasize the need for modern solutions to the plastic waste challenge, arguing that advanced recycling offers both an environmental and economic win—if regulatory certainty and infrastructure hurdles can be overcome. The episode concludes with calls for pragmatic, science-based policy and recognition of the essential role plastics play in modern society.