Home Cooking – "Bittersweet (with Helen Zaltzman)"

Episode 14 | December 16, 2020
Hosts: Samin Nosrat & Hrishikesh Hirway
Special Guest: Helen Zaltzman

Episode Overview

The 14th—and final—episode of Home Cooking’s “Bittersweet” series is a joyous, nostalgic and slightly wistful celebration of cookies. Samin and Rishi answer listeners’ cookie queries, share family stories, offer gifting ideas, solve a decades-old recipe mystery, and welcome podcasting legend Helen Zaltzman for gingerbread tales. There’s plenty of laughter, wordplay, and heartfelt reflection on the role of food (especially cookies) in sustaining community and friendship, particularly through a trying year.

Key Discussion Points

1. Cookie Nostalgia and The End of the Series

• The hosts reminisce about the show’s purpose and their bittersweet feelings about wrapping up:
  • “I don’t know that I could have made it through this year without you, without this show, without this connection to our audience.” – Samin (02:00)
• Cookie tins as an episode theme and symbol of friendship:
  • “I really wanted this as a gift of friendship to you.” – Samin (02:17)

2. Signature Cookie Ideas

Listener Question: Sally wants a fun, festive, but not too labor-intensive signature cookie for a virtual holiday cookie party.

Discussion:

• Samin describes the “Baby Boo” – a tiny, labor-intensive, single-chocolate-chip cookie (03:41–06:00).
• For ease, both suggest slice-and-bake cookies.
  • Rishi recommends roasted pecan chocolate chip cookies (from Shirley Corriher’s recipe), mixing chopped and meal pecans for texture, rolled into logs, chilled, then sliced and baked (06:24–08:21).

3. Home Cook Gift Ideas

Listener Question: Gift recommendations for home cooks.

• Magic Unicorn Sea Salt from Beautiful Briny Sea
• Samin keeps a running list (balsamic vinegar, olive oil, artisan cheese, illustrated produce prints) and suggests checking their resources page (09:13–09:59).
• Cookie recommendations:
  • Samin: Pineapple Linzer cookies from Té Company in NYC (09:59–10:31).
  • Rishi: Mocha fudge chip cookies from Crumpet’s Bakeshop in LA (10:31–11:22).

4. The Great Cookie Tin Controversy – Mixing Flavors

• Pro Tip: Don’t store strongly-flavored cookies (gingerbread, peanut butter, etc.) together—flavors get muddled (11:44–14:42):
  • “Why are we not talking about this? Cookieboxcontro. Follow the money.” – Tim Mazaric (Instagram, read at 11:46)
  • Samin: “Please just gift one kind of cookie or from the same type of family.”
  • Rishi suggests using freezer bags to segregate types but commingle in the tin.

5. Oatmeal Raisin Cookie Redemption

Listener Question: Why all the hate for oatmeal raisin cookies, and how to make them better?

• Samin: “My solution is get other friends.” (15:16)
• Texture is often the dealbreaker; suggestions:
  • Toast or partially grind oats (for texture variation)
  • Try oatmeal raisin chocolate chip hybrids (15:45–16:34)
• General consensus: “Oatmeal cookies rule. End of debate.” – Rishi (16:34)

6. No-Bake Cookie Strategies

Listener Question: Recommendations for cookies without an oven.

• Samin jokes about eating cookie dough ball “as is” (17:09).
• Introduction to Preacher Cookies (no-bake chocolate-oatmeal-coconut cookies)—recipe troubleshooting from listener Alison:
  • Too sweet? Rishi reduced sugar, swapped some for brown sugar, and added salt and flaky sea salt post-formation (20:04–21:37).
  • Samin: Suggests increasing brown sugar, using nut butter for savoriness, and balancing sweetness with salt (21:15–22:21).

7. Salting Cookies: When and What Type?

Listener Question: Best salt for sprinkling on cookies—before or after baking?

• Consensus: Use good flaky salt (Maldon, Diamond Crystal) and typically salt after baking, while cookies are still hot for best texture and stick (23:08–25:59).
  • “I follow the existentialism of Jean Paul Saltre.” – Rishi, punning as ever (24:41)
• Don’t waste expensive salt pre-bake if it’ll dissolve and disappear.

8. Recipe Detective: The Lost Lemon Icebox Cookie

Listener Question: Katie from Brooklyn wants to recover a beloved lemon cookie recipe (from 1980s Gourmet).

• Samin contacts food-world insiders (Francis Lam, Dorie Greenspan, Xan Stewart) to track down the recipe’s print origins.
• Find: Tangy Lemon Cookies from Gourmet (Oct 1986).
• Samin tests and confirms the recipe, praising its strong lemon flavor (zest of 3 lemons, juice of 2) and caramelized ring (32:35–34:33).
  • “One of my pet peeves in a lemon dessert is when it’s not lemony enough.” – Samin (33:33)
• Recipe and original scan to be posted online.

Guest Segment: Helen Zaltzman and the Art of Gingerbread

(37:46–44:47)

• Helen Zaltzman, podcaster, shares memories of rationed sugar, baking cookies from a Good Housekeeping book as a kid, and inventing “Gingerbread Day” in her shared house.
• On gingerbread decorating parties:
  • “My Twitter profile picture is from that very first gingerbread day.” – Helen (40:06)
• Elaborate gingerbread scenes (houses, crime scenes, Beyoncé in "Hold Up").
• Cookies as both creative and communal expression; tips include amping up spices and using fresh ginger and pepper for kick.

Cookie Troubleshooting Lightning Round

(45:18–52:00)

• Cakey Cookies:
  • Too much egg or leavening, or possibly over-creaming dough (46:02–46:54).
• Paper-Thin, Spreading Cookies:
  • Oven temperature too low; butter/flour ratio off, or recipe designed to be thin (47:34–48:30).
• Turducken Cookie Problem:
  • Megan’s “cookie-cookie-cookie” experiment (chopped cookies in cookie dough, dough wrapped around another cookie dough) is bleeding together. Solution: Bake the inner cookie fully before enrobing (51:05–51:40).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “All my talent’s wasted.” – Rishi, after delivering a “shortbread” joke. (01:10)
• “I’m Samin Nosrat.”
  “And I’m Hrishikesh Hirway.”
  “And we’re home cooking.” (01:18–01:21)
• “If Katie thinks this might be the one, I can avoid donning my anti-arachnid personal protective gear.” – Xan Stewart, on recipe sleuthing (31:12)
• Helen on gingerbread: “My secret...is just adding about 60% more spice than the recipe calls for.” (41:25)
• “I can’t wait to see a picture of this.” – Samin, on Megan’s ambitious cookie monster creation (51:56)
• KitchenAid surprise:
  • Samin and the kitchen elves send Rishi a stand mixer (52:00–53:09)
  • “Did you know that Samin Nossrat is an anagram for minor Santas?” – Rishi (53:25)

Timestamps for Important Segments

| Timestamp | Topic/Segment | |---------------|---------------------------| | 01:18–01:22 | Episode and series intro | | 02:27 | The cookie tin episode reveal | | 03:36–06:11 | Baby Boo cookies & signature cookie ideas | | 06:24–08:21 | Slice-and-bake (pecan chocolate chip) cookies | | 09:13–10:31 | Gift recommendations | | 11:46–14:42 | Cookie tin controversy, segregation advice | | 14:52–16:34 | Oatmeal raisin debate | | 16:41–18:25 | No-bake cookie troubleshooting | | 20:04–22:21 | Preacher cookie sugar reduction strategies | | 23:08–25:59 | Flaky salt and salting philosophy | | 26:10–34:40 | Recipe detective segment – lemon icebox cookies | | 37:46–44:47 | Helen Zaltzman guest interview | | 45:18–52:00 | Cookie troubleshooting lightning round | | 52:00–53:25 | Rishi’s surprise stand mixer/unwrapping | | 53:55-End | Goodbyes and credits |

Language & Tone

The episode brims with warmth, wit (cookie puns galore), and practical wisdom. Samin and Rishi’s playful banter (“Jean Paul Saltre,” “minor Santas,” the endless teasing), a spirit of genuine inquiry, improvisation, and community support runs throughout — making kitchen experiments, cookie fails, and recipe detective work equally delightful.

For Listeners Who Missed the Show

This episode is both a loving send-off and a holiday bake-along. It’s packed with specific cookie tips, stories of family, friendship, and food science, accessible recipes, and the kind of humor and heart that has carried the Home Cooking audience through uncertain times. Whether troubleshooting cookies, seeking out the best gift, or just in need of a reason to laugh, listeners find real connection and encouragement here.

Cookies, like podcasts and friendships, are best when shared.