Home Cooking – Episode 27: “Chana-kah Masala”

Hosts: Samin Nosrat & Hrishikesh Hirway
Guests: Helen Zaltzman, Josey Baker
Date: December 5, 2025

Episode Overview

Celebrating the season finale and the holidays, Samin and Hrishi answer listener kitchen questions with their usual warmth, stories, and fun. This episode is full of baking tips, fascinating ingredient deep-dives (vanilla, saffron, honey), and creative suggestions for cooking and hosting—from flour storage conundrums to reinventing the holiday latke. Special guests Helen Zaltzman and baker Josey Baker join for delightful tangent-filled segments on language, confections, and technical baking advice.

Highlights & Key Discussion Points

1. Food Memories and Holiday Nostalgia (02:26–07:51)

• Nostalgic Foods:
  • Hrishi describes a recent meal at plant-based Kusaki in LA, whose Impossible shishito burger surprisingly reminded him of childhood Sausage McMuffins.
    • “The first bite that I had reminded me so much of...the sausage McMuffin from McDonald's.” (03:41 – Hrishi)
  • Samin recalls Round Table Pizza from childhood; for her birthday, family made a lovingly decorated carrot cake that looked like little carrots when sliced (06:23–06:56).
  • Memorable moment: Birthday song turned into a chant of “Samini Tahini panini Sardini” (07:08–07:44).

2. The Power and Paradox of Vanilla (08:22–15:56)

• Why is vanilla so ‘plain’ if it’s so special?
  • Samin traces vanilla’s history from rare Mexican orchid to globality status symbol via colonialism.
  • Growing vanilla is laborious—less than a day to pollinate, lots of human touch.
    • “By the time you are using a vanilla bean in your kitchen, it has been handled by so many people...which is why a single vanilla bean costs 5, 6, 7, 8, $10.” (10:26 – Samin)
  • Vanilla’s flavor is nearly all aroma: “Vanilla doesn’t have a flavor. Vanilla is pretty much entirely aroma, whereas chocolate has flavor.” (11:47)
  • Artificial vanilla made the flavor “plain” and common in language, divorcing it from its origins.
  • Gift idea: Homemade vanilla sugar or extract (15:46).
  • Notable joke: “My friends come over and they're like, they see my vanilla and they’re like, well, you're a vanilla bean millionaire.” / “A vanillionaire.” (15:41–15:42)

3. Saffron—Justifying the Luxury (16:04–19:20)

• Listener Mike (Fairfax, VA): Had never used saffron, seemed too expensive.
  • Samin shares saffron’s labor-intensity, flavor notes: “floral, a little bit green, like hay, maybe fruity...” (17:26).
    • Good sources: Afghani saffron (supports female workers), Kashmiri saffron (Diaspora, Burlap & Barrel).
  • “You want to spend probably about 30 bucks on some [saffron]—for most of my cooking that’ll last me a year.” (18:19)
• Holiday Dessert Suggestions:
  • Persian shol-e-zard or Indian kheer rice pudding.
  • Swedish saffron buns (St. Lucia Day, Dec 13).
    • “If you eat it on the right day, any dessert is a holiday dessert.” (20:04)

4. Caramel, Caramel, or Carmel? (20:25–25:41)

Guest: Helen Zaltzman

• Listener Megan asks: How do you say “caramel”?
• Helen’s Take: “Caramel, three syllables, but not saying it’s right.”
• Etymology:
  • May derive from words for honey (“mel”); similar roots in romance languages (22:38–22:51).
• The Real Answer: Regional; “caramel” is more northeast/southeast U.S., “carmel” elsewhere.
  • “The more you know about language, everything falls apart.” (23:39 – Helen)
• Consensus: No one is wrong, everyone’s wrong.
  • “Please continue to make fun of your husband on my behalf.” (25:14 – Hrishi)

5. The Mysteries & Management of Flour (28:43–43:29)

Guest: Josey Baker

• Flour Mishaps:
  • Listener Madeline accidentally bought 100 lbs of T70 flour instead of 10 (“There were glasses of wine involved...”).
  • Josey explains: T70 = French classification, about 15–20% whole wheat (33:21–33:25).
    • Can be used for almost anything: cookies, biscuits, bread—a versatile flour.
    • Suggests substituting T70 or using entirely for sourdough or other bakes.
• Rancid Flour (Leena’s question, 34:55–39:27):
  • How do you know if whole wheat flour is rancid?
    • “It should smell nutty, fresh, weedy...if it smells like wax, crayon, or slightly like a tire or rubber or cardboard, it’s probably off.” (38:29–38:38 – Samin & Josey)
    • “Rancid flour isn’t poisonous, it just doesn’t taste good.” (38:46 – Samin)
  • Store flour in airtight container, ideally refrigerated/freezer for long-term.
• How to open a flour bag (Rachel’s question, 39:37–42:54):
  • Dry goods life hack: Always transfer flour bags to airtight containers after opening.
  • Josey: “Take the bag and look at the top and bottom—sometimes actually flipping it on its head is your entry point… then use a knife to cut it off and transfer.” (41:57–42:34)
  • Memorable Joke: “Do the bags self identify as tops or bottoms?” (42:43 – Hrishi)

6. Honey and Burnt Honey Experiments (43:31–51:32)

• Listener Andy asks: What do I do with four gallons of honey?
• Samin’s suggestions:
  • Whipped/creamed honey (good for gifts, cheese plates, desserts).
  • Add-ins: freeze-dried fruit, spices, or mix seeds for seedy honey.
  • Churned honey: “Whip it in like a KitchenAid stand mixer with a few grains of dried crystallized honey” to provide the “starter.”
• Burnt honey:
  • “Burnt honey is just honey you put in a pan and cook until it starts smoking, then stop with water. Now it’s its own version of caramel.” (47:27)
  • Great in chocolate fudge sauce, vinaigrettes, or even as a marinade with harissa for chicken.
  • “I’m always thinking—how do we make something multi layered out of something super simple?” (48:44)
  • Burnt honey in cocktails, vinaigrettes, roast chicken marinade.
• Surprise: “Honeycomb candy” is not made with honey—it’s caramel with baking soda!
  • “Well, you know that honeycomb candy’s not made with honey, right?” (51:13 – Samin)

7. The Great Latke Adventure: Toppings and Batch Cooking for Hanukkah (52:23–59:16)

• Listener Alex & Jacob: How to serve latkes for a group; new topping ideas.
• Batch Cooking:
  • Make latkes the day before, cool on wire rack, refrigerate, then reheat on a rack in oven at 450° or use air fryer for crispness.
  • Joke: “If you can just take the right amount of oil for one latke, but then stretch it across eight, that would be really special for this spirit of Hanukkah.” (54:05 – Hrishi)
• Creative Toppings:
  • Chana masala & chutneys (host’s own idea, gets enthusiastic host approval)
  • Yogurt, mango chutney, tamarind-date chutney, labneh.
  • Jalapeno ketchup (Hrishi’s pandemic ketchup case purchase), suggested as a latke topping.
  • Samin: “I’m going to let you just claim that one for your very self.” (55:11)
  • Hash brown bar idea: Grated cheese, salsa, guacamole; Samin leans away from refried beans but likes rajas (poblano & onion), whole beans.
  • More toppings: Rajas, lingonberry jam, pickled red onions, smoked salmon and crème fraiche, Moroccan condiments (harissa, charmoula).
    • “I feel like I envision holiday parties as being like snacking parties, rather than like a seated dinner party.” (59:16 – Samin)
  • Latkes as edible “plates”—party food should be stand-and-eat friendly.

8. Reflections, Farewells, & Next Steps (60:36–61:26)

• Season finale; both hosts taking a break (“I’ve had a gnarly year. I need a break.” – 61:10, Samin).
• Hrishi to release a new album next year.
• Both promise: “We’re like, too annoying to go away forever.” (61:32 – Samin)

Memorable Quotes

“The first bite that I had reminded me so much of...the sausage McMuffin from McDonald’s.” — Hrishi (03:41)

“Vanilla doesn’t have a flavor. Vanilla is pretty much entirely aroma, whereas chocolate has flavor.” — Samin (11:47)

“My friends come over and they're like, they see my vanilla and they're like, well, you're a vanilla bean millionaire.”
“A vanillionaire.” — Samin & Hrishi (15:41–15:42)

“Life is short. Live large. Have some saffron.” — Hrishi (16:32)

“The more you know about language, everything falls apart.” — Helen Zaltzman (23:39)

“Do the bags self-identify as tops or bottoms?” — Hrishi (42:43)

“I am a good friend.” — Samin, to Hrishi, about gifting whipped honey (45:53)

“Who does not love that? I feel like I envision holiday parties as being like snacking parties.” — Samin (59:16)

Timestamps for Notable Segments

• 03:41 – The magical plant-based burger nostalgia moment
• 06:23 – The “carrot slice” carrot cake birthday surprise
• 10:26 – Why vanilla is so expensive
• 13:54 – Artificial vs. real vanilla in our language
• 17:26 – What saffron tastes like, sourcing
• 20:35 – Helen Zaltzman weighs in on “caramel” vs. “carmel”
• 29:49 – Josey Baker joins for flour deep-dive
• 33:32 – T70 flour explained for accidental bulk buyers
• 38:29 – How to smell/taste for rancid flour
• 41:57 – Tips for opening that dreaded paper flour bag
• 43:31 – Honey and burnt honey, creamed honey tips
• 47:27 – How to make burnt honey at home
• 52:23 – Latke toppings and logistics for Hanukkah
• 55:11 – Samin’s reaction to jalapeño ketchup as a latke condiment
• 59:16 – Latkes as edible plates for parties
• 61:10 – Both hosts reflect on the year and say farewell (for now)

Guest Appearances

• Helen Zaltzman (@helenzaltzman): Language and “caramel” dispute; witty banter, delightfully nerdy map analysis.
• Josey Baker (@josiebakerbread): Deep but approachable flour science; hands-on tips for using, storing, and opening flour.

Final Notes

This episode is a celebration of home cooking’s community: advice for all baking and holiday hurdles, reminders to find joy and fun in kitchen mistakes, and encouragement to care for each other (and your ingredients). It’s a warmth-filled close to a season, certain to inspire both laughter and something new in your kitchen.

For more recipes, resources, and to keep in touch:

• homecooking.show
• Samin on Instagram: @chaucemin and A Grain of Salt
• Hrishi on Instagram: @rishihirway & Accept Cookies
• Guests:
  • Helen’s The Illusionist podcast
  • Josey’s bakery & classes: josiebakerbread.com

Happy Holidays and keep home cooking!