Home Cooking – "Frankly, We Have a Lot to Ketchup On" (with Latif Nasser)

Hosts: Samin Nosrat & Hrishikesh Hirway
Guest: Latif Nasser (Radiolab)
Date: December 20, 2024

Episode Overview

Samin and Rishi return for a much-anticipated catch-up episode after a long hiatus, blending their trademark mix of culinary wisdom, playful banter, and genuine food enthusiasm. Loosely themed around the holidays, this episode covers kitchen confessions, holiday hosting, inventive kitchen solutions, and a memorable segment from Radiolab on ancient Roman fish sauce, garum. Fan questions spark practical tips on tricky holiday dishes, vegan and college-friendly recipes, and food science mysteries. The overall mood: comforting, funny, slightly chaotic, and rich in practical recipe ideas.

1. Culinary Catch-up: Hot Dogs, Costco & Unconventional Sandwiches

[00:30–08:13]

• Samin’s Hot Dog Confession

  • Samin reveals her last great meal: a Costco hot dog, which she considers a rare and special treat.
  • Rishi teases her about the frequency of hot dogs versus podcast episodes.
  • Samin describes her controversial toppings: "I put ketchup and mustard on it." (Samin, 03:53)
  • Discussion of hot dog regional snobbery (Chicago's anti-ketchup stance) versus embracing local variations.
    • “‘I just think of a hot dog as being the quick solution for sad dads everywhere.’” (Rishi, 05:21)
  • Samin shares a trick for steaming buns using a rack over boiling water from Chicago.

• Rishi’s Oddball Sandwich

  • Rishi’s energizing snack: peanut butter, avocado, crispy kale, hot sauce, salt—all in a sandwich.
    • Samin: “...truly, like, discombobulated of an avocado and peanut butter combo.” (Samin, 06:49)
  • Rishi defends the combo: “You wouldn’t think that it would work, but it does.” (Rishi, 07:06)
  • Samin humorously threatens: “If this goes viral, I quit.” (Samin, 07:37)

2. Holiday Hosting Stress & Kitchen Questions

[08:13–14:50]

• Reflections on the relentless pressure of holiday cooking and entertaining.
• Listener Deb shares her mom’s duck-roasting disaster and asks for duck-cooking advice.

Crispy Duck Tips

[10:12–14:50]

• Samin’s step-by-step:
  1. Prick the skin thoroughly (not the meat), using needles or a DIY tool.
  2. Steam the duck in a roasting pan with water to render fat (breast-side down then up, 15–20 min each).
  3. Remove, stuff as desired, then roast.
  4. Save duck fat for potatoes: “To me, duck fat is like liquid gold.” (Samin, 14:16)
• Rishi jokes: “Deb, have you ever considered going to Costco…?” (Rishi, 13:23)
• Both reassure: duck can be tamed!

3. Creative Vegan & Budget Meal Tips

Sweet Potato Wizardry

[14:54–21:15]

• Annabelle (college student/vegan) seeks new sweet potato toppings.
• Samin recommends Japanese sweet potatoes (satsuma imo) for texture & flavor.
• Suggests “tahini butter” with soy, ginger, and sesame oil; also vegan ranch (tahini, dill, scallions).
• Rishi’s go-to: roasted sweet potato fries with DIY vegan ranch.
• Samin quips: “Any meal where there is an opportunity for condiments and toppings is a win.” (Samin, 20:56)
• Corny joke moment:
  • “We are rooting for you.”
  • “Oh, no, no, no. It’s not a root, it’s a tuber.” (Samin, 21:07)
  • “We are tubering for you.” (Rishi, 21:10)

4. Salty Dilemmas: Over-Salted Tomato Sauce & Salting Vegetables

Rescue for Over-Salted Sauces

[21:15–24:14]

• Ashley from Australia: what to do with 10 jars of over-salted home-canned tomato sauce?
• Samin’s fixes:
  • Use small amounts in big-batch soups or stews, letting the tomato bring the salt.
  • Dilute with store-bought no-salt or low-salt tomatoes.
  • Use next year’s fresh tomatoes to “cut” this year’s salty batch.
  • “I have done so much over salting in my life.” (Samin, 23:41)

The Science of Salting Vegetables

[24:21–30:03]

• Risha from Illinois: after salting cabbage/cucumbers, to rinse or not?
• Samin:
  • Salting draws out water (osmosis), leaving veggies tastier and less watery.
  • Pat/strain veggies—not rinse—so you don’t undo the process or dilute flavor.
  • Use the amount of salt that tastes right for you; time matters more than quantity.
    • “The entire practice of salting… is much more about time than it is about amount of salt.” (Samin, 29:45)

5. Freezer Essentials: Mastering Frozen Vegetables

[32:21–37:58]

• Elizabeth: “What’s the best way to use frozen vegetables so they taste good?”

• Samin’s key tips:

  • Don’t roast frozen vegetables—texture fails due to cell breakdown.
  • They are usually par-cooked before freezing; boiling or steaming is best.
  • Big tip: Use frozen veg in dishes with liquid (soups, stews, pot pie filling).
  • For microwaving: use a microwave-safe container, salt well, don’t overcook.
    • “Ideally in liquid. Just simmer it and bring it back to a simmer and it comes to a happy place.” (Samin, 35:04)
  • Keep old bags in rotation; freezer burn is moisture loss from the veggies.

• Rishi and Samin also discuss “Any Day” microwave containers (unpaid plug), and swap Indian family kitchen stories with microwaved okra and sabudana.

6. Holiday Baking Dreams: The Perfect Cardamom Bun

[38:08–44:07]

• Rishi describes his new obsession: the soft, not-too-sweet, intensely cardamom-y buns he ate in London.
• Samin’s advice:
  • Identify the base as a “laminated dough” or, more accessibly, Japanese milk bread (Hokkaido bread).
  • The trick: pre-cook a portion of the flour into a thick paste (tangzhong)—helps the dough hold moisture and stay fluffy.
    • “That small portion of cooked grain has a remarkable capacity to hold onto moisture…” (Samin, 41:59)
  • For filling: grind green cardamom yourself and mix with white and brown sugar for moistness.
• Samin offers to combine the best parts of two recipes: milk bread dough + cardamom bun filling.
• Vegan milk bread options exist!

7. Special Segment: "Garum: Ancient Fish Sauce" with Latif Nasser (Radiolab)

[44:08–54:24]

• Samin geeks out over Pompeii, Latin class, and garum (fermented fish sauce).
• Latif and Samin unravel garum’s history and its modern equivalents, like colatura (Italy), fish sauce (Asia), and even Worcestershire (“white people fish sauce”).
• Samin: “When employed in the right way, it makes everything better… It’s the original MSG.” (Samin, 47:11)
• Samin explains umami: "The food dances on your tongue... like Pop Rocks.” (Samin, 49:05)
• They plot a hands-on garum experiment: layering salted fish in jars to ferment in the sun for months—a project that would horrify Nasser’s fish-averse children!
• It’s witty, nerdy, gross, and infectious enthusiasm about culinary science.

8. Holiday Treats & Kitchen Wisdom

[54:24–59:28]

• Samin’s cookie swap flop: “None of the cookies were that good… It was a little sad.” (Samin, 55:00)
• Ultimate last-minute treat: Rice Krispies treats with a brown butter twist.
  • Use dry milk powder in butter for extra brown butter flavor: “You get a triple amount of brown butter flavor…” (Samin, 56:22)
  • Flexibility: Fruity Pebbles, cardamom, peanut butter(!), or toasted sesame oil. “Any meal with condiments and toppings is a win.”
• Final bad-pun and word-geek detour: Is it Rice Krispie treats or Rice Krispies treats?
• Rishi notes Samin’s vivid food science language: “Kudos for being able to describe things not just appetizingly, but disgustingly unappetizingly as well, when needed.” (Rishi, 58:27)

9. The Episode’s Spirit: Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On food judgement:
  • “Being snobby about a hot dog feels antithetical to the nature of a hot dog.” (Rishi, 04:40)
• On trying new things:
  • “If this goes viral, I quit. To each their own.” (Samin, 07:37)
• On condiments:
  • “Any meal where there is an opportunity for condiments and toppings is a win.” (Samin, 20:56)
• On kitchen disasters:
  • “I have done so much over salting in my life.” (Samin, 23:41)
• On culinary science:
  • “The entire practice of salting to get water out is much more about time than it is about amount of salt.” (Samin, 29:45)
• On umami:
  • “It’s the original MSG.” (Samin, 47:11)
• Humor & friendship:
  • “If you want to punish me, your success will be my punishment.” (Rishi, 58:52)
  • “The dark core of my soul.” (Samin, 59:14)

10. Timestamps for Major Segments

• 00:30–08:13: Food catch-up (Costco hot dogs, weird sandwiches)
• 08:13–14:50: Holiday hosting, duck cooking science
• 14:54–21:15: Vegan sweet potato ideas
• 21:15–24:14: Over-salted tomato sauce rescue
• 24:21–30:03: How (and why) to salt vegetables
• 32:21–37:58: The science and best use of frozen vegetables
• 38:08–44:07: Cardamom bun quest & milk bread hacks
• 44:08–54:24: Garum and ancient food nerdery (segment with Latif Nasser)
• 54:24–59:28: Rice Krispies treats reinvention, baking tangents

11. Tone and Takeaways

The episode’s tone is cozy and irreverently nerdy, mixing culinary knowledge with self-deprecating humor and audience engagement. Whether it's demystifying intimidating recipes, reframing kitchen disasters as learning experiences, or finding delight in everyday foods like hot dogs and sweet potatoes, Samin and Rishi remind home cooks to embrace joy, mess, and experimentation in the kitchen.