Home Cooking

Episode 25: “Full of Pith and Vinegar”

Hosts: Samin Nosrat & Hrishikesh Hirway

Guest: Kate Lebo
Date: November 7, 2025

Overview

This episode of Home Cooking explores the world of “difficult fruit”—fruits that require special preparation, care, or patience, and the culinary opportunities and delights they bring. With special guest Kate Lebo, poet and author of The Book of Difficult Fruit, Samin and Hrishi answer listener questions about medlars, pomegranates, prickly pears, fig and citrus leaves, and more, offering recipes, stories, and techniques for making the most of nature’s more finicky offerings.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Episode Theme: Difficult Fruit (03:07–08:34)

• Hrishi surprises Samin by announcing that the episode is themed around "difficult fruit," inspired by a listener question and the work of Kate Lebo.
• The discussion frames “difficult fruits” as those that are challenging to harvest, prepare, or eat, but also rewarding and sometimes underappreciated.
• Samin shares:
  “Treating the fruit with care and love and respect should be everyone’s goal in a fruit dessert.” (06:52)

2. Listener Questions & Expert Interlude: Medlars with Kate Lebo (10:06–17:32)

What Are Medlars? (11:30–13:15)

• Kate Lebo describes the medlar, an obscure fruit related to quince and apples, which is only edible after being “bletted,” that is, left to nearly rot and soften post-frost.
• It’s challenging to prepare and not always palatable:
  “…the first bite is sort of like a bad sparkling wine, and it’s sort of apple-saucy. And then, like, the last bite is mildew.” – Kate Lebo (12:58)

Recipes and Uses (14:38–16:56)

• Kate suggests making medlar jelly, combining bletted and less ripe medlars for both flavor and pectin, boiled and strained, then jarred with sugar and lemon “skeletons.”
  “The flavor of this is like stepping into a warm house on a cold day and getting that whiff of leaves.” – Kate Lebo (16:56)
• Other ideas: medlar paste in pastries (with chevre and quince), liqueur (modeled on nocino technique), and traditional brown sauce or chutney.
• The process is labor-intensive and yields little paste per fruit.

3. Working with Pomegranates (21:36–31:32)

Removing Arils & Traditional Eating (23:19–24:11)

• Samin describes eating fresh pomegranate arils with salt—a Persian classic—and shares tips for decoupling seeds efficiently:
  • Score along natural divisions, break open, and extract arils in water to minimize mess.
  • “If you follow the natural veins of the fruit, you’ll see that there are actually, like, clumps of perfectly pristine seeds that you can then remove and avoid all of the white pith.” (30:23)

Pomegranate Molasses & Fesenjun Stew (25:21–26:54)

• Samin recounts making fesenjun, a Persian walnut and pomegranate molasses stew, and how her childhood food “rankings” matured as she came to appreciate its complex flavors.
• Encourages making and reducing pomegranate juice to molasses, using it in stews, drinks, or desserts.

Family Rituals with Fruit (31:05–31:40)

• The hosts reminisce about the loving gestures of parents and relatives who skillfully prepared fruit—apple peeling, corn kernel removal, pomegranate seeding.

4. Prickly Pears, Vinegar Making, and Fruit Abundance Management (32:33–38:49)

• Caller Saurabh asks how to use an abundance of prickly pears, suggesting vinegar infusion.
• Samin validates the vinegar idea, recommending pureeing fruit, adding a “live” vinegar mother, and fermenting with care:
  “Vinegar is actually a really simple and beautiful thing to make, and it involves a lot less processing of the fruit.” (36:17)
• The discussion covers the edible challenges of prickly pears (tough seeds) and cultural approaches to eating them in Mexico and Sicily—often with less fuss and more acceptance of texture.

5. Fig and Citrus Leaves: Culinary Fragrance and Tradition (38:53–46:39)

Fig Leaves (39:18–42:53)

• Fig leaves impart a coconutty, nutty aroma to food; Samin uses them as wrappers for grilling fish or cheese, as aromatic layers in baking, or dried, powdered, and mixed with salt as a seasoning.
• Not to be eaten directly, but prized for the flavor they impart.

Citrus Leaves (43:00–46:39)

• Inspired by Sicilian swordfish skewered with citrus twigs and leaves, Samin suggests using lime or lemon tree branches and leaves as skewers for grilling fish, halloumi, or mushrooms.
• The essential oils in the leaves add flavor distinct from juice or zest.

6. Culinary Explorations and Ice Creams with Difficult Fruits (46:43–49:21)

• Discussion pivots to frozen desserts:
  • Prickly pear makes a great sorbet or granita.
  • Figs can be roasted and swirled into a fig leaf-infused ice cream base.
  • Pomegranate juice is best as granita or sorbet; molasses could be drizzled over top.
  • Hrishi mentions Indian ice cream brand Naturals, featuring uncommon fruit flavors, and local Bay Area ice creams using tropical fruits.
  • Samin: “We're really going down like a fruit rabbit hole.” (48:17)

7. Insights & Philosophy: Food, Language, and Affection (49:44–50:12)

• Learning about new foods is also about learning new words, expanding vocabulary alongside palates.
• Both hosts reflect on preparing fruit as an act of love and the cultural meaning—whether through family, migration, or metaphor, as with Kate Lebo’s book.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “All fruit has the potential to be difficult fruit.” – Hrishikesh Hirway (08:49)
• “I have to fight squirrels to get [medlars] before they forage them for winter.” – Kate Lebo (13:21)
• “Even under ideal circumstances, it’s not that tasty.” – Hrishikesh Hirway, about medlars (12:55)
• “Treating the fruit with care and love and respect should be everyone’s goal in a fruit dessert.” – Samin Nosrat (06:52)
• “I just try to make a liqueur out of it… and then forget about it for seven years.” – Kate Lebo, on dealing with excess medlars (15:14)
• “One of the greatest acts of love is like preparing fruit for someone.” – Samin Nosrat (31:40)
• “We're getting to the core.” – Hrishikesh Hirway (48:25)
• “You could serve a bowl of pomegranate granita with pomegranate arils and a little drizzle of pomegranate molasses. You could just go triple. Pom pom, pom pom.” – Samin Nosrat (49:44)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 03:07 – Reveal of “difficult fruit” theme
• 10:06–17:32 – Medlar deep dive with Kate Lebo
• 21:36–31:32 – Tips and stories about preparing pomegranates
• 32:33–38:49 – Prickly pears and vinegar making
• 38:53–42:53 – Culinary uses for fig leaves
• 43:00–46:39 – Using citrus leaves and branches in cooking
• 46:43–49:21 – Ice cream and frozen desserts featuring difficult fruits
• 49:44–50:12 – “Food as language” and affectionate food rituals

Resources & Further Reading

• The Book of Difficult Fruit by Kate Lebo
• Persian Fesenjun recipe by Samin Nosrat (New York Times Cooking)
• Granita and sorbet tips
• Home Cooking website: homecooking.show

Tone & Style

Warm, playful, inquisitive, and occasionally punny; the hosts combine deep cultural knowledge with light-hearted banter and a welcoming approach to confusing or intimidating ingredients.

This episode provides a treasure trove of ideas and encouragement, showing that even the most challenging fruit can become the source of kitchen joy, creativity, and connection. Whether you’re swimming in medlars or wondering what to do with pomegranate molasses, Samin, Hrishi, and their guest Kate invite you to approach challenging ingredients with curiosity, reverence, and a willingness to get a little messy.