Happy Tangsgiving! (with Camila Cabello)

Summary

Home Cooking – “Happy Tangsgiving!” (with Camila Cabello)

Hosts: Samin Nosrat & Hrishikesh Hirway
Guest: Camila Cabello
Air Date: November 16, 2021

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Overview

This lively Thanksgiving episode reunites Samin and Hrishi as they tackle holiday cooking dilemmas, invite international pop star Camila Cabello to the table, and—as always—fill the kitchen with warmth, laughter, and practical wisdom. The duo fields listener questions about bringing more excitement to Thanksgiving spreads, vegan and vegetarian dinner options, the essentiality of acid, knife recommendations, and ways to use up those extra green onions. Amidst the advice, there’s a running thread of playful teasing and endearing confessionals, making the episode both useful and deeply entertaining.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Best Things the Hosts Have Eaten Lately

• Samin’s Take: Carmelo’s Sonoran-style flour tortillas from Kansas. She ordered them by mail and extols their “diaphanous”—delicate and see-through—quality, suggesting everything from quesadillas to simple butter & cinnamon options.

  “They are so good. Papery thin, like diaphanous. You can see through them if you hold them up to the light.” (Samin, 01:29)

• Hrishi’s Cooking Adventure: Hrishi recounts his attempt at vegan sweet potato coconut biscuits (from Bryant Terry’s “Black Food”), helped and heckled by Samin. He admits to overhydrating the dough, learning the importance of a practice run before big meals.

  “The lesson here is actually, you didn’t even tell me how it turned out.” (Samin, 05:44)
  “For things like this that are going to be a new recipe for a big, important meal, it’s great to do a practice run through.” (Samin, 06:22)

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2. Making Thanksgiving Less Boring: Texture & Crunch (07:13)

• Listener Q: How to add texture and crunch to the typically soft and brown Thanksgiving table?
• Samin’s Solution: She developed recipes for the NYT to add “crunch, flavor, and excitement.” Her favorite trick:
  • Fried Shallot & Herb Breadcrumb Mix: Learned from chef Nite Yun, fry shallots in cold oil gradually, yielding crisp shallots and aromatic oil. Then, fry breadcrumbs, add crunchy fried herbs like sage and rosemary, finish with fresh herbs for a bowl of “dry, crunchy, crispy, golden, magical” stuff.
  • Applications: Use as a topping for casseroles, macaroni and cheese, mashed potatoes, eggs, or even just eat by hand.

  “[It’s] this, like, shalloty, crunchy, light, herby perfection... I have been eating it by the handful, secretly at night.” (Samin, 10:21)

• Notable Quote:

  “There have been studies that have been written that show that...people derive pleasure from variability. And variability comes from contrast in texture and temperature, in flavor, in taste.” (Samin, 08:11)

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3. The Science and Joy of “Krumkroom” (12:26)

• Hrishi’s Story: His dad adds “shave” (fried chickpea flour snack) to tamarind rice for “krumkroom” (onomatopoeic for “crunch”)—demonstrating the key role of texture in elevating food.

  “The tamarind rice is delicious, but it is kind of homogenous in its texture. And like you said, the brain craves variety. And so you put a little shave on the tamarind rice, and you get this extra hit of saltiness and flavor and spice, but also the texture of krumkrum.” (Hrishi, 12:59)

• Samin: “I need to write krumkroom in my article now.”

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4. What to Do with a Surplus of Green Onions? (14:45)

• Listener Q: Leigh has too many green onions—what to do?
• Samin’s Suggestion: Inspired by Catalan tradition, grill them (like calçots), and serve with a peppery, nutty romesco sauce (bread, peppers, nuts—often hazelnuts, though substituting with peanuts is fine).
  • “You could even grill your bread if you didn’t want to fry it...the sauce is going to be delicious on your turkey and your vegetables as well.” (Samin, 15:10)
• Romesco's Value: Introduces crunch, acid, and excitement—breaking up the monotony of the Thanksgiving table.

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5. Acidity Beyond Cranberry Sauce (16:37)

• Listener Q: Sonia loves “vinegary and lemony” foods—how to bring more acid to Thanksgiving beyond cranberry?
• Samin’s Extensive Tips:
  • Always serve a bright, crunchy salad—use a high-acid vinaigrette (citrus + vinegar).
  • When making gravy, add a fresh splash of wine at the end to “perk it back up.”
  • Use sourdough bread or wine-soaked dried fruits in stuffing.
  • For creamy dishes like mashed potatoes: Opt for sour cream, crème fraîche, or yogurt instead of butter (“cultured dairy”).
  • Toss roasted veggies in a vinaigrette or make Italian/Venetian “agrodolce” (onions, pine nuts, vinegar, currants).

  “You can make a really light and vibrant vinaigrette for your salad. Make a pretty high acid vinaigrette, maybe with layer…your acids: do like a citrus and a vinegar.” (Samin, 17:01)

• Playful Banter:

  “None of this uncultured dairy.” (Hrishi & Samin, 18:47)

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6. Knives: The Only Three You Really Need (22:14)

• Listener Q: Essential knives for home cooks?
• Samin’s Top Three:
  1. Chef’s Knife (big, not serrated, ~8-10 inches): For almost everything.
  2. Serrated Bread Knife (12-14 inches): For bread, tomatoes, tender cakes.
  3. Paring Knife (“bird’s beak” is her favorite): Great for small or precise tasks.
  • Splurge: Boning knife for meat-eaters.
• Samin’s Wisdom: It’s less about money or prestige; thrift-store cheap knives can be cherished treasures if maintained.

  “A lot of the best cooks who I’ve known in my career are not the kind of people who spend a gajillion dollars on their knives. They take care of the knives that they have, but they don’t have the most expensive knives in the world.” (Samin, 25:12)

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7. Camila Cabello Calls In: Vegan Thanksgiving Options (27:07)

• Starstruck: Camila is clearly a genuine fan—enthusiastic and nervous to speak with her “idols.”

  “I talk so much about you guys to my friends. You guys are my idols.” (Camila, 28:43)

• Her Dilemma: What are vegan/vegetarian main dishes that both vegans and nonvegans will love? Needs (a) something not too hard to cook solo, and (b) accessible in Miami.
• Rishi’s Suggestion: Inspired by his vegan wife’s family—a veganized version of the “stuffed eggplant with lamb and pine nuts” from Ottolenghi’s “Jerusalem,” substituting Beyond Burger for the lamb.
  • Tip: Don’t skimp on “warming spices”—cumin, cinnamon, etc.—to make plant-based meats feel rich and craveable.

  “I think the key to plant based meat alternatives is definitely the seasoning.” (Hrishi & Camila, 30:51)

• Other Vegan Mains:
  • Vegan mac and cheese or lasagna (cashew milk béchamel, nutritional yeast).
  • Stuffed honey nut or butternut squash (breadcrumbs, pine nuts, herbs).
  • Black bean and mushroom chili.
  • Stuffed mushrooms.
• Notable Moment: Hrishi’s “Cuban the squash” pun, which Samin groans at before Camila gets the joke. (33:53-34:04)

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8. Thanksgiving Desserts: Mango Pie & Homemade Cool Whip (34:21)

• Rishi challenges Samin: Will she make his family’s signature mango pie?
• Samin’s Upgrades: Homemade crust, homemade Cool Whip (“stepping up my game”). Rishi prefers the no-frills version with premade graham cracker crust and tub Cool Whip, as per his mom.

  “Someday you’re gonna come here for Thanksgiving and I will make you the real mango pie, not your bougie cultured mango pie from The New York Times.” (Hrishi, 35:13)

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9. Banter, Merch, and In-Jokes

• A new batch of Home Cooking merchandise (shirts, tote bags, etc.) is announced, complete with inside jokes (“Shrimp Jenga Forever” becomes “Shrimp Jungle Forever” for legal reasons).
• Ongoing riffs between the hosts on each other’s culinary righteousness and open mocking about who’s really providing the emotional labor in the kitchen.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On variability:

  “…People derive pleasure from variability…you’re just eating, like, sweet thing after sweet thing, after soft thing after brown thing…” (Samin, 08:11)

• On fried shallot mixture:

  “I have been eating it by the handful, secretly at night. Like, it’s so delicious and exciting.” (Samin, 10:21)

• On krumkroom (crunch):

  “The onomatopoeia of krumkrum was enough.” (Hrishi, 12:58)

• On knife acquisition:

  “My favorite knife was $6. I got it at the thrift store, and it has a broken handle. And I’ve still used it just as is.” (Samin, 24:59)

• Camila’s fangirl moment:

  “You guys are my idols… I feel like I know you without knowing you.” (Camila, 28:55)

• Pun Off:

  “If you cut (the squash) so it’s like perfectly square on all sides…so then that way the squash is, you know, your Cuban. The squash.” (Hrishi, 33:53)
  (Samin: “Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no.”)

• Show’s enduring value:

  “It was really bananas how quickly and how many of you submitted questions and voicemails and just responded.” (Samin, 39:08)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Best things eaten / Biscuits story: 01:21 – 06:55
• Making Thanksgiving less boring (crispy shallot/crumb topping): 07:13 – 13:35
• Hrishi’s “krumkroom” story: 11:38 – 13:26
• Green onion ideas / Romesco sauce: 13:44 – 16:30
• Adding acid to Thanksgiving: 16:37 – 19:53
• Knife essentials: 22:14 – 27:02
• Camila Cabello vegan Thanksgiving question: 27:07 – 34:12
• Mango pie & dessert banter: 34:21 – 35:29

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Suggested Recipes & Takeaways

• Bread & herb topping: Fried shallots + breadcrumbs + herbs; sprinkle everywhere.
• Romesco sauce: Grilled green onions or scallions with nutty, tangy romesco for variety.
• High-acid vinaigrette salad: Offset Thanksgiving heaviness with fresh, sour greens.
• Vegan mains: Stuffed eggplants/squash, mac & cheese, chili, mushrooms—don't forget robust seasoning and nutritional yeast for that “cheesy” flavor.
• Three knives: Chef’s, serrated bread, and paring knife—no fancy sets required.

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Final Thoughts

“Happy Tangsgiving!” is an effervescent mix of food nerdery, culinary encouragement, audience Q&A, and the sort of running, affectionate banter that’s made Home Cooking a quarantine-era staple. Even with the burst of pop star energy from Camila Cabello, the episode never loses its homey, welcoming vibe—one that reassures: whether you burn your biscuits or cube your squash, you’re in good company.

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For recipes, transcripts, and more, visit homecooking.show.

Transcript

[A]

Hey, it's Christopher Kimball from Milk Street Radio. Sounds like I'm bragging. And I am. We're the number one most downloaded food podcast in America. You know, Milk Street Radio travels the world in search of the very best food stories. You'll hear about smuggling eels on the black market, the secret intelligence of plants, and insider tips to eating in Paris. And every week, listeners call in with their toughest culinary mysteries. Discover a world of food stories by searching your podcast app for Mill Street Radio.

[B]

Hi, I'm Samin.

[C]

Wait, wait.

[B]

What?

[C]

Wait, hold on. I have to play you something.

[B]

What?

[C]

Ready?

[B]

Mm.

[D]

I don't have a question. I'm just so excited.

[B]

Hi, I'm Samin Nosrat.

[C]

And I'm Hrishikesh Hirway.

[B]

And we're home cooking.

[C]

And we're back for Thanksgiving. This is episode 16 of what I once as a young boy long ago, first imagined as a four part series.

[B]

Now we are old like the earth.

[C]

We've got some Thanksgiving questions from listeners all over the world, including one from international pop star Camila Cabello, who apparently listens to this podcast.

[B]

Unclear why.

[C]

Before we get to all that, Samin, I haven't asked you this in a long time. What's the best thing you ate recently?

[B]

Oh, my goodness. 100%, no question. Flour tortillas from Carmelo, which is a tortillaria in Kansas. They make Sonoran style tortillas, and they are so good. Papery thin, like diaphanous. You can see through them if you hold them up to the light.

[C]

Hmm. Did you go to Kansas?

[B]

I have not been anywhere.

[C]

How do you have this tortilla?

[B]

You just order them and they send them to you in the mail. And then you heat them up, either just directly over the flame or I like to do it in a cast iron pan. They puff up and they are so good.

[C]

Wait, so you can send food in the mail?

[B]

Not banana bread? But yes.

[C]

I don't have any experience. For the record, if anybody's keeping track, Samin still hasn't sent me the banana bread that she promised me in episode one of this podcast. Back when we were just babies, young lasses and lass.

[B]

I did name the banana bread recipe in my book Rishi's Favorite Banana Bread.

[C]

Just to mock me. Look for that in a book that.

[B]

May or may never be finished.

[C]

We'll see if that gets past your editors. Okay, so what did you make with this tortilla?

[B]

Oh, sometimes I just eat them as tortillas. Sometimes quesadillas, sometimes butter, sometimes butter and cinnamon. Sometimes Tacos, sometimes beans, sometimes bean burritos.

[C]

Sounds delicious. And I look forward to getting some in the mail.

[B]

Yeah, you'll have to order your own. This is going to be an episode. I can already tell you 90 seconds in that this is going to be an episode where you just paint me as the rudest, meanest person who ever lived.

[C]

I don't know what you think I'm painting. This is a self portrait by Samin.

[B]

I mean, it's not, I would say, not totally wrong. Okay. Dear Rishi, my friend, what have you been cooking? What's been delicious in the world of Rishi?

[C]

Oh, well.

[B]

Oh, you're such a good cook. What wonderful, delicious things have you been making?

[C]

She's trying to do damage control preemptively, because the fact is, she knows what I've been cooking. Because last night I was trying to make this, and at one point, Samin just said, straight up, you are a bad cook.

[B]

That was only because you were being so impatient. And the recipe very specifically said, chilled coconut milk and chilled sweet potato. And you put it in there. And then five seconds later you were like, do you think it's cold yet? I'm going to move forward. And I was like, it's definitely not cold.

[C]

We recently got copies of this fantastic book, Ugh, truly special, called Black Food, that's edited by Bryant Terry.

[B]

Bryant is an incredible chef and collaborator in the food world and in the music world and in the art world and in the Black Diaspora. And he is also newly a publisher of an imprint called Four Color Books. And this is the first book he's put out. It's called Black Food and it is truly an incredible achievement.

[C]

One of the first pages in the book is for a recipe that I immediately thought, I'm gonna make this for Thanksgiving. There's a vegan sweet potato coconut biscuit recipe, and the picture looked so good. And it. I mean, I love all those flavors and it's vegan. And as you know, Samin, my wife Lindsay is vegan. And I thought this would be a great way that I could contribute something that is vegan and also Thanksgiving. So I tried making it last night with your quote unquote help. I can tell that these are going to be delicious someday. My execution was not the greatest.

[B]

I mean, I would say we started pretty late in the evening. Yeah, we were not, like, super prepared. I would not say either of us, like, read through the recipe before you started.

[C]

I read through the recipe.

[B]

You didn't read enough through the recipe to chill the stuff before you Started.

[C]

Okay, fair enough.

[B]

The lesson here is actually, you didn't even tell me how it turned out.

[C]

You know, they turned out pretty good. The problem is that this is a new kind of baking for me. All the baking I've ever done is cookies and tray bake stuff. I've never had to do a thing where I, like, knead the dough by hand. And so I. I didn't really know how to gauge the relative wetness with the relative dryness. And I was so worried that I didn't have enough liquid in there that I added too much liquid. And so my biscuits turned out a little bit squidgy in the middle, but a nice flavor.

[B]

I think the great lesson here is it's for things like this that are going to be a new recipe for a big, important meal. It's great to do a practice run through, you know.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Where at a time where it's not a stressful moment, you know, on the day of the big meal.

[C]

Yeah. I just injected more stress by having you on FaceTime while I did it.

[B]

Yeah. And I was just yelling at you the whole time.

[C]

But I'm excited to try them again. For somebody who has any experience more than me in this kind of area, it would be a cinch. Now that I've done it once, I'm excited to try it again and do it better.

[B]

I actually think you're needing skills where you did the best.

[C]

But you'd rate my overall performance as needs improvement.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

Okay. Let's get into some questions. Here's a question that I was excited to get because I know what you've been working on.

[D]

So I am going to be cooking for some friends and their family, and I am wondering how I can add some more, like, texture, depth to the table. My family always did mashed potatoes and stuffing and chicken, and there wasn't really anything with any, like, crunch or anything. So would love to hear your suggestions of how to mix it up.

[B]

This year for the New York Times, I worked on a little group of recipes about how to make your Thanksgiving less boring. Because, frankly, I feel like Thanksgiving is pretty boring for the palate. There's a lot of brown food. There's a lot of sweet food. There's a lot of soft food.

[C]

Look, brown, soft and sweet. Basically describes me. So what's your problem?

[B]

Yeah. And you're pretty boring, so. Yeah.

[C]

Wow.

[B]

There have been studies that have been written that show that, like, people derive pleasure from variability. And variability comes from contrast in texture and temperature, in flavor, in taste. And there isn't A ton of that on the Thanksgiving table when you're just eating, like, sweet thing after sweet thing after soft thing after brown thing after brown thing. And that's why I talked about crunch. And the thing that was most exciting to me that I came up with was this method of frying shallots that I learned from Nite Yun, who is this Cambodian chef up here in Oakland who has this fantastic restaurant called Nyum Bai. And last year, I learned to fry shallots from her. This method that I had never learned before, because frying has always been, for me, a thing where you heat oil and then you add the thing into it. But in Southeast Asia, like in Thailand, Cambodia, Indonesia, a lot of times you add shallots into cold oil, and you bring everything up together gently. And then you simmer the shallots until they're cold, the right color, or just even a little bit before the right color. And then you pull them out, and then they kind of continue cooking, and they crisp up as they cool. And it's a really wonderful, gentle way into frying. For people who might be nervous about frying. It doesn't require any special equipment, no thermometer, nothing like that. And it yields perfect shallots every time. And then you're left behind with this amazing shalloty flavored oil, which is so fragrant and aromatic and amazing. And so then I was like, what do I do with this oil? So I took breadcrumbs and I fried them in that oil, and they got all shalloty and golden and crunchy and wonderful. And then I took them out of the oil, and then I fried rosemary and sage, which are like the taste of Thanksgiving. And, you know, the herbs get all light and airy and also diaphanous. I already used that word, but I'm gonna use it again. And crispy. It's like this, like, shalloty, crunchy, light, herby perfection. And then at the end, I just chopped a little bit of parsley and thyme into the mixture. And so you have this dry, crunchy, crispy, golden, magical thing that can become a topping then for any of your soft casseroles, for things like green bean casserole or macaroni and cheese or squash or potato gratin, or what you could do, what I think everybody should do, which is just put the whole bowl at the table and let people do with it what they will, like, sprinkle it on top of your mashed potatoes and gravy, sprinkle it on top of your salad, sprinkle it on top of whatever you Want? I've been putting it on my rice, on my congee, on my soup, on my pasta, on my scrambled eggs. I have been eating it by the handful, secretly at night. Like, it's so delicious and exciting. And if you can't eat gluten or wheat, you can use gluten free bread. Or you could replace the bread with any nut and do gently fried nuts. I think traditionally in Indonesia they do peanuts, but you could do any other nuts. You know, instead of rosemary and sage, you could do any other herbs and sort of change up the flavors. It's just endlessly adaptable. Delicious crunchiness and joy.

[C]

This reminds me of a story about my dad.

[B]

Oh, I can't wait. Tell me.

[C]

One time when I was on tour, my bandmates and I flew into Chicago where my dad and my mom picked us up from the airport. And my parents are always very conscientious of, you know, people being hungry at all times. They show up to the airport with snacks and food, you know, to feed you right away. So you're like, oh, you must be hungry. You've been on the plane and they had brought tamarind rice. Have you ever had Indian tamarind rice?

[B]

No. Tell me about this.

[C]

It's called Ambit bath, which is like sour rice, basically. It's just incredibly delicious. It's so good.

[B]

Oh, it looks so good.

[C]

I can eat pounds and pounds of it. We were just like in the parking lot of the airport and we're eating like out of the little Tupperware that my dad and mom had packed it in. And then as we're eating, my dad comes over with a bag of shave. You know, shave.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[C]

How would you describe shave?

[B]

It kind of looks like fried vermicelli, but it's made out of chickpea flour.

[C]

Yeah. It's like salty and it's crunchy. And my dad comes out of the car and he's got a bag of shave. And he goes to, like, add some to my bandmate Scott's bowl, like right into the Tupperware thing to, like, pour it on top. And Scott's like, wait, what is this? And my dad goes, it's some, you know, krumkroom. With, like, no further explanation, but the onomatopoeia of krumkrum was enough.

[B]

It makes total sense.

[C]

Scott was like, oh, yeah, yeah, okay, sure. And then I was like, it's good, it's good. Cause the tamarind rice is delicious, but it is kind of homogenous in its texture. And like you said, the Brain craves variety. And so you put a little shave on the tamarind rice, and you get this extra hit of saltiness and flavor and spice, but also the texture of krumkrum.

[B]

Oh, my God. I need to write krumkroom in my article now.

[C]

Yeah. So if anybody questions when you put it down on the table and they're like, what is this for? You just explain it.

[B]

That's what Sumesh uncle said. Oh, my God. So good.

[C]

Okay, so the shallots got me thinking about this other question that we got from Lee.

[B]

Okay.

[E]

I have a ton of green onions, or scallions, whatever you want to call them, from a tiny garden that I just cleaned out. And I really only use them in veggie stir fries or maybe, like, topping for noodle bowls. So with Thanksgiving coming up, what else can I do with a ton of green onions to incorporate in a dish? Thanks so much.

[B]

Interesting. All right, Leigh. The first thing that comes to mind is calcuts, which my friend Kelly told me about when I was in college and she was studying in Barcelona. They are kind of like big green onions or scallions that are traditional to Catalonia. And they're famous because there's, like, a huge festival called the calcitada. They're traditionally served grilled with romesco sauce, which is a really delicious pepper sauce with, guess what? Breadcrumbs. Fried breadcrumbs. And it's just sort of this, like, huge, wonderful communal festival all throughout Catalonia to eat these green onions that come out of the ground at that time of year, you know, like, from fall, winter to early spring. That's one thing. I think that would be kind of fun to do and not so much because, like, it's, like, so exciting to eat the Calcutts. But I have to say, it's really fun to make romesco sauce.

[C]

And romesco sauce would be kind of good for Thanksgiving.

[B]

Yeah, it's crunchy, it's spicy, and guess what? It's exciting at a boring meal.

[C]

Right. It could be a good way to work in some acid, right?

[B]

Yeah. And there's acid, there's crunch, crunch. There's a little bit of nuts in there. Traditionally, it's hazelnuts. One of the restaurants that Rishi and I love to eat at in LA called Kismet Rotisserie, they make muhammara, which is a kind of a cousin of Romesco, but instead of using walnuts, which is the nut traditional to that, they use peanuts. And I actually think peanuts would be delicious in a Romesco, too, if you don't want to use, you know, hazelnuts or you can't find them. So I think you can play with the nut in the romesco sauce, but you just kind of take some dried chilies and rehydrate them and pound them with, like, traditionally, you would grill a whole head of garlic right next to your grilled calcuts, and you would take either like, dried or. Or not dried peppers and grill them. And then basically, you just throw everything on the grill and then pound this romesco sauce. You could even grill your bread if you didn't want to fry it. And then you could have your calcuts on one side and. And then pound all the things for the romesco together in your big mortar and pestle. And you have this big, chunky, beautiful sauce that you bring together with sherry or red wine vinegar and olive oil, and you serve that. And guess what? The sauce is going to be delicious on your turkey and your vegetables as well.

[C]

So we talked about your fried sage salsa last year. We've just talked about romesco sauce. Here's a question from Sonia.

[D]

Hi, Samin and Rishi. Our question to you has to do with acid. I personally love vinegary and lemony foods, and I'm not sure if it has to do with the fact that I grew up in a Chinese household in El Salvador. So as we're thinking about our Thanksgiving meal this year, I was wondering if there are other ways to incorporate more acid into the meal in more ways than just through the use of cranberry sauce.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[D]

Thank you so much, and take care.

[B]

I really want to read a story about what it was like to grow up in a Chinese household in El Salvador. Please tell me more about that one day. Boy, do I have some answers for you. First of all, I believe everyone should have salad at Thanksgiving because it's fresh and delicious, and there's very few things that are fresh and crunchy. This is another going back to our earlier question about crunch, another source for crunch. You can make a really light and vibrant vinaigrette for your salad. So I would say make a pretty high acid vinaigrette, maybe with layer. Your acids do like a citrus and a vinegar. Secondly, when you're making your gravy, you know, like, people often deglaze the pan with some wine as they're making their gravy with the, like, brownie bits and stuff. So that's some acid, but that usually cooks off the like alcohol does. And then the acid might sort of, like, mellow as the gravy cooks. So it's nice to sort of add a nice fresh splash of wine at the end to re brighten up the gravy and kind of perk it back up so that it's, like, newly acidic right before you bring it to the table. If you're making your own stuffing and you're making your own bread cubes, choose sourdough bread. If you're putting dried fruit in the stuffing, like something like prunes or something, that's a source of acid. Also, you could soak those prunes in a mixture of wine and chicken stock or just some white wine, and then they become little acid bombs that you bite into while you're eating your stuffing. That's some acid. When you're making your mashed potatoes, instead of just using straight butter as the dairy, consider using sour cream or creme fraiche or yogurt, some sort of cultured dairy that has a tang to it.

[C]

None of this uncultured dairy.

[B]

None of this uncultured dairy.

[C]

Please get out of here.

[B]

Oh, another thing, I think, you know, the roasted vegetable is a beautiful opportunity for some sort of, like, vinaigrette. So actually, another one of the recipes that are part of my package is something called Sour, which is a Venetian sweet and sour dish. And that one has, like, onions and pine nuts and currants and saffron and white wine. But there are plenty of other sort of agrodulce sweet and sour mixtures that you can make where you just stir together, like sugar, white wine vinegar or red wine vinegar, a little bit of onions, maybe some mint. Or you could just literally make some vinaigrette and toss your roasted brussels sprouts or your boiled green beans or whatever in that. And then all of a sudden, this vegetable that was just a plain vegetable or a roasted super caramelized vegetable all of a sudden becomes a source of acid.

[C]

That's a lot of acid. Yeah, that is a battery of acids.

[B]

I'm so glad this show's over.

[C]

Not only are we back with a new season of episodes, we've also got brand new home cooking merch. We finally put our tomato can home cooking logo on a shirt. You can get it as a T shirt or a sweatshirt or a tank top or even a onesie for little baby home cooks. Plus, there's a tote bag with the drawing of the round salt can thing that has Samin and myself and our dogs, Fava bean and Watson on it. It is the pinnacle of tote bags. And there is a pun in there. If you think about how pinnacle is spelled. There's also a special shirt in honor of our special recurring guest, the man with hot takes and a surprisingly high pitched giggle. My dad, known to Samin and all my close friends as Sumesh Uncle. He has his own shirt that says Team Sumesh uncle, featuring three little jars of saffron. And he undoubtedly has very strong opinions about their color and flavor. And of course, there's also still the OG sweatshirt with the drawing of the can of sardines and the inexplicable shrimp Jenga Forever shirt. And all of this stuff was illustrated by our wonderful Mamie Ryan Gold. And all of it is available at Homecooking Show Merch. Again, it's Homecooking Show Merch.

[B]

If you're a fan of home cooking and the way it's all put together. But like me, you wish it had a little less Rishi in it. Let me recommend Rishi's other podcast, the brilliant and magical Song Exploder. Rishi's the host, but he cuts himself entirely out of the interviews he does with amazing musicians like Janelle, Monae, Robin, Fleetwood Mac, U2, and more. So you just hear them talking about the creative process behind the making of one of their songs. I was actually a fan of Song Exploder way before Rishi and I became friends. Two of my favorite episodes are the ones with Solange and Sarah Sylvan Esso. The show is so carefully and thoughtfully made, and it's just really inspiring for anyone who creates things. Find it wherever you listen to podcasts.

[C]

We got this question that I thought could be really nice for people who are starting to think about gifts for home cooks in their lives. This question comes from our friend Francesco.

[B]

It's our friend.

[F]

Ciao, Samin. Ciao, Rishi. This is Francesco. I'm moving soon to a new home and I have a chance to update a little bit of my cookware. So in terms of knives, I was curious to know which ones are the ones that you think are the most essential to have in a home kitchen and stuff like that. Thank you so much. Love you guys. Love the show. Ciao, Ciao.

[B]

Wow. Before I go down a rabbit hole, let's just promise that there will be a link list on the website. Okay?

[C]

Yes. Like the director of School of Rock. There will be a link later.

[B]

Yes, exactly. I in general recommend that people at home have three knives. A chef's knife, a good chef's knife that is at least 8 inches long.

[C]

What constitutes a chef's knife versus, you know, just like a big old Knife.

[B]

A big old knife can be a chef's knife.

[C]

So I've got a bunch of knives I, you know, got as a housewarming present. I use all of them, depending on, you know, the size of the thing I'm cutting. Which one is the chef's knife?

[B]

Probably the biggest one that's not serrated is the chef's knife. Yeah, like, all the. A lot of, like, weird stuff comes in those blocks. Not necessary. So a chef's knife is usually 8 inches, sometimes 10 inches long. I like the 10 inch one. Really? The way, you know, is it feels good in your hand, so.

[C]

And does the size matter? You're saying it feels good in your hand? Eight inches is fine. Ten inches is better.

[B]

No, this is a children's show. This is a children's show.

[C]

Continue as if I never spoke.

[B]

That's how I generally proceed through life.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

So knife number one, big chef's knife, which is your all purpose knife for cutting all your vegetables, your meats, all the things it can be made out of stainless steel. It can be made out of a mixture of various steels. There's all sorts of metal technologies these days. The old school thing is carbon steel. I find that very beautiful, but also hard to take care of because it will rust pretty immediately. And so for the average home cook, it's like, not a great choice. Stainless steel is kind of greater. And also now they've started combining the steels so that it's like a higher percentage of stainless. So it's. It doesn't rust as readily, but also will stay sharp longer. My favorite knife was $6. I got it at the thrift store, and it has a broken handle. And I'm still. I've always been like, maybe I'll get that fixed one day by a woodworker. And I've still used it just as is.

[C]

Okay, so chef's knife is knife number one.

[B]

Number one. Number two, bread knife, which can be 14 inches or 12 inches, but must be serrated because that's going to be what cuts through the crusty loaf of bread. And also second wonderful use is that it cuts delicately through tomatoes during tomato season and also through angel food cake or other cakes. And third knife is a paring knife. And my personal favorite kind of paring knife is called a bird's beak, which has like a curved little. It's like a curved little edge. It's kind of like a little parrot beak. Boop. It's like an extension of your fingertip, and it's really wonderful. So I love that. And if you want to splurge on a fourth knife and you happen to eat meat, I would get a boning knife because they have a long, skinny, flexible blade. And so that's really helpful for butchering meat and getting as much meat as possible off of the bone. A lot of the best cooks who I've known in my career are not the kind of people who spend a gajillion dollars on their knives. They take care of the knives that they have, but they don't have the most expensive knives in the world. So there is a brand called Forchner Victorinox, which is, you know, like a sister brand of the Swiss army knife, and they make completely, totally decent knives.

[C]

By the way, the name of the character that I was doing earlier, Fortuner Victorianox, is the one who was saying uncultured dairy.

[B]

Oh, really?

[C]

Yeah. That's Forchener Victorinox. Okay.

[B]

So the. And the Fortuner Victorinox don't even have, like, what's called a full tang, which is what the. Is when the.

[C]

When the dairy is not cultured.

[B]

When the dairy is not cultured, it does not have full tang, or full tang is when the metal part of the knife reaches all the way from the tip of the blade all the way to the end of the handle. So which is like, that's sort of the premium version of a knife when.

[C]

The metal is completely from end to end.

[B]

From end to end, and. Which means it's, like the strongest and won't break.

[C]

Okay, one more question. This was very exciting to get. Here you go.

[G]

Hey, Rishi and Samin. I'm Camila Cabello, and Home Cooking is my favorite podcast.

[B]

What?

[G]

So for Thanksgiving, you know, I'm not vegetarian or vegan all the time, but when it comes to places like, you know, in Miami, I don't really know where I can get ethically sourced meat or turkey or whatever. So I guess my question is, what are some good vegan options for a Thanksgiving dinner? This is going to be my first time, like, really cooking Thanksgiving dinner. Is there anything that you suggest for, like, a vegan dinner that some people in the family that aren't vegan will still enjoy? And my family doesn't really cook, so I would be cooking it kind of by myself, so it can't be too hard.

[B]

Okay.

[G]

Love you guys. And on this podcast, biggest fan, maybe.

[B]

Bye. So weird. Truly the weirdest.

[C]

It's so amazing. Should we call her?

[B]

What? You have her phone number?

[C]

I have her phone number. Should we call her back?

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

[C]

Okay, hold on. Hold, please.

[B]

Hi. Hello.

[C]

Hello.

[H]

I'm sorry. I'm about to be really loud on this podcast for, like, the first two minutes because I am, like, kind of starstruck right now.

[B]

What?

[H]

No, I'm serious. Like, I really am. Like, I talk so much about you guys to my friends. You guys are my idols.

[B]

Why?

[H]

Like, Rishi with his puns and, like, and the jokes and, like, Samin and, like, your laugh, you guys. Like, I feel like I know you without knowing you.

[B]

Oh, my gosh.

[C]

Well, thank you for this great question.

[H]

You're welcome.

[C]

We're so excited to get to try and answer it. It's so funny that you sent this question because it's something that's been exactly a topic of discussion.

[B]

We were talking about it last night.

[C]

Yeah.

[H]

Really? Wow.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So my wife is vegan, and she was just in Atlanta visiting her family, and her mom's husband made this dish that she was so excited about. She told me about it immediately, and we were thinking that maybe this is what we're gonna make for Thanksgiving.

[H]

Mm. Okay. Do tell.

[C]

Okay. So we've talked a little bit about him before, because I cook from his cookbooks a lot, but Yota Matelenghi, who's a friend of Samin's, I got a book. Do you have Jerusalem by any chance?

[H]

No, I just have simple.

[C]

Okay. Oh, simple is great. Well, Jerusalem is another great cookbook that he co wrote, and in it, there's a dish, Stuffed eggplant with lamb and pine nuts. There's a lot of stuff in this cookbook that we kind of had ruled out because it has meat.

[B]

Right.

[C]

But Charlie, Lindsay's mom's husband, made this stuffed eggplant and replaced the meat with Beyond Burger instead of ground lamb.

[H]

Okay.

[C]

And so he made it vegan so that Lindsay could have it. She was the only one who's vegan, but they all loved it. And it's made with cumin and cinnamon. It has this kind of, like, what Samin likes to call warming spices, which.

[B]

Are the Thanksgiving spices. That's like pumpkin pie spices. Right.

[H]

It's interesting. Like, I feel like with Beyond Burger, I could, like, I've had it beyond Meat in, like, a vegan burrito with some cheese. And it tastes amazing. It tastes just like meat. But then, like, when I've tried to make it myself, something about it feels like. Tastes kind of plasticky to me. So maybe I just need to be adding more spices because, yeah, I've had it, and it's great. And then when I try to make it. I feel like it's not that great.

[C]

Yeah. I think the key to plant based meat alternatives is definitely the seasoning.

[H]

The seasoning for sure.

[B]

This is something where Rishi knows a lot more than I do. I've only made it one time.

[C]

I wonder, Samin, is there something. If we just apply this principle of, oh, there are some things that are normally meaty but impossible. Burger exists and the ground beef kind of version of this exists. Are there other Thanksgiving things that you might convert to a vegan diet?

[H]

Yeah. What could be an outline of the three course meal? You know what I mean? Ooh, I guess you could make vegan Mac and cheese, which is delicious.

[B]

Absolutely. Oh, delicious. Like, actually, there's this restaurant that I really love near Joshua Tree called La Copine.

[H]

Yeah, the Girlfriend.

[B]

Yeah, they're wonderful. They had an eggplant, a vegan eggplant parmesan.

[H]

Mm, that sounds good.

[B]

It was the first time that I had had vegan bechamel sauce, and it was made with cashew milk and it was really rich and delicious. And so it's not that I'm suggesting that you make the eggplant parmesan, but just the. The bechamel sauce made with cashew milk I thought was really delicious. And then I didn't ask, but I assumed that the thing that made it really flavorful and cheesy tasting was nutritional yeast. And so. Which I'm a huge fan of. So you could make Mac and cheese, you could make lasagna, you could make your cheese sauce with cashew milk and nutritional yeast. I think that is a great way. And actually here I am hawking New York Times cooking again. But I know that there's a great either Mac and cheese or fettuccine Alfredo or some sort of like vegan cheesy pasta recipe there that's really beloved.

[H]

No, they have really good vegan recipes in New York Times. I was thinking of also making like, there's like a black bean chili. Oh, black bean mushroom chili recipe that looks really good that they have on there.

[B]

I think stuffed mushrooms are very meaty. Like stuffing a vegetable is always a great way to go. I mean, that's essentially what Rishi suggested. Another vegetable that I think is really fun to stuff and very delightful to eat is the small sized squash called sometimes it's called honey nut. They're like mini butternuts. You could also stuff like a whole size or like a fine smaller butternut squashes, and you could make a stuffing of like, you know, breadcrumbs and pine nuts. And it doesn't even have to have the beyond meat. So that's kind of like too challenging to. Or maybe for your diners or for you, you could leave all of that out and just kind of make it savory with herbs and breadcrumbs and like, make a delicious sort of rich, herby stock.

[H]

Like, grainy.

[B]

Yeah. It could basically just be sort of stuffing stuffed.

[H]

Stuffing stuffed. You know what's funny? Last year was the first time eating, like, traditional American Thanksgiving food because I'm Cuban Mexican.

[C]

One thing you could do that might, like, be a good hybrid is if you get that squash and the way you prepare it, if you cut it so it's like perfectly square on all sides, you know, so then that way the squash is, you know, your Cuban. The squash.

[B]

Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

[H]

Mean. Does not approve.

[B]

No, it hasn't hit her yet.

[H]

Ah, no.

[B]

Cuban.

[C]

Camilla. Thank you so much for calling.

[B]

Thank you so much.

[C]

Thank you for the question. This is such a treat.

[H]

Such a treat for me.

[B]

You're so delightful.

[C]

So mean. As we wrap up, here's my big question for you. This year, are you going to be making my family's traditional Thanksgiving dessert? Are you going to make a mango pie?

[B]

Oh, you bet. Yeah. Also, guess what? Not only am I going to make mango pieces, I'm also gonna make my own Cool Whip.

[C]

Really?

[B]

Oh, yeah. I did it last year, too. But I'm stepping up my game. I learned a few lessons. I'm improving the Cool Whip. It's gonna be so awesome. So I guess if I make the crust and I make the Cool Whip, it's not really your mango pie anymore, is it?

[C]

No, it's really not. Why don't you believe me? You should try it one year, my mom's way. Get the pre made crust, graham cracker crust. Get the real Cool Whip. Someday you're gonna come here for Thanksgiving and I will make you the real mango pie, not your bougie cultured mango pie from the New York Times.

[B]

Oh, my God. Sheesh. On our next episode, I'm gonna let everyone in on a little secret about how Rishi measures flour.

[C]

Oh, okay. Before that, first of all assumes that we're ever gonna have a next episode.

[B]

But until then, I think what everybody should do is go listen to Rishi beautiful new song which he just released. It's really meaningful. And also, I think as listeners of our podcast, you will be so moved by it because it really sort of is tied together. It kind of links, you know, so many things that we've talked about here. You know, family, his mom, and also our friend Yo Yo Ma, the best cellist in the whole universe makes an appearance. And you can kind of hear the backstory of the song if you go listen to the amazing, moving tear jerker of a TED Talk that he put together that tells the story of not only the song, but also how song exploder came to be and sort of how Rishi thinks about listening. Also, the funny thing is, the first time Rishi had me listen to a draft of his TED Talk, I didn't really know what the TED Talk was about, so I kept interrupting.

[C]

And then I got to the part of, like, where it was, like, so about listening.

[B]

Yeah. And I was like, uh, oh. Anyway, it's truly so moving, and I think you'll feel a lot closer to Rishi. I did. I don't know that everybody who listens to this show really understands that you're a true artist. You know, like, our friendship is just one part of who you are. Maybe the worst part of who you are, and probably the worst part of who I am too. But there's so much beauty in who you are, and I think that song and that beautiful talk will give people a lot of insight into who you really are.

[C]

Fair warning.

[B]

Yeah, fair warning. We will have links in the show notes so you can watch and listen to both.

[C]

Okay. More exciting, probably to people than that is the fact that we have made new shirts.

[B]

Oh, yeah. Well, actually, we really wanted to make new shirts that said Shrimp Jenga Forever.

[C]

But look, we cannot sell something that says Jenga for obvious reasons, legal reasons, trademark reasons, it seemed like a bad idea. So instead, we're introducing our new shirt, Shrimp Jungle Forever.

[B]

No one's gonna know what that means. I mean, people are just gonna be like, what is. No one's gonna buy this shirt.

[C]

But you will know. You, the listeners at home, you will know what it means. It's gonna be even more exciting. Imagine how exciting it's gonna be when you meet somebody who recognizes it. You can yell shrimp Drungra forever, and everybody's gonna think you're weird, but you'll make a new friend because shrimp and.

[B]

Jenga really made so much sense.

[C]

Okay, fair point. But shrimp Joonga. That's really. We're really getting into the secret cabal of home cooking listenership.

[B]

Oh, my God. Apparently, Rishi went and bought a new domain so you can order your shirt at homecooking show shrimpjanga.

[C]

Okay, after the show, I'll explain how domain names work to Samin. But yes, go to Homecooking show Shrimp Shrimp Jenga and you'll understand why I'm saying it this way. Shrimp Jirunga forever.

[B]

Oh my God.

[C]

This is the stupidest thing we've ever done. And that's it for this episode. Thank you so much for listening again as we pop up out of nowhere.

[B]

I can't believe we came back, but I'm so glad that we did. So thank you so much for being there. It was really bananas how quickly and how many of you submitted questions and voicemails and just responded.

[C]

It was so awesome. It made me feel like this.

[D]

I don't have a question. I'm just so excited.

[C]

We make this podcast with the help of Margaret Miller, Zach McNeese, Gary Lee and Casey Deal, and Mamie Rheingold does our artwork.

[B]

We're a proud member of Radiotopia, a collective of independent podcasts. You can learn more about all the Radiotopia shows at Radiotopia FM.

[C]

Our website is homecooking show or shrimpjanga.com where you can find recipes and transcripts for all of our episodes.

[B]

You can follow Rishi on Twitter and Instagram at rishihirway.

[C]

And Samin is Owsamine.

[B]

Stay healthy, eat well, and take care of each other. Each other.

[C]

Thanks again for listening. Have a great Thanksgiving.

[B]

I'm Samin.

[C]

And I'm Rishi and we'll be home.

[B]

Cooking Radiotopia from prx.