Mayo May Not Delete

Summary

Home Cooking — “Mayo May Not Delete”

Hosts: Samin Nosrat & Hrishikesh Hirway
Episode Date: September 12, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this lively and warm episode of Home Cooking, Samin Nosrat and Hrishikesh Hirway (joined by frequent collaborator Mary Dolan) gather in person for the first time ever to tackle a mixture of listener questions about classic desserts, creative lunch ideas, and the quirks of fridge organization. The episode weaves together practical tips, storytelling, and hilarious tangents, all deeply rooted in the spirit of curiosity and helping home cooks find both confidence and joy in the kitchen.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Ice Cream Sundae Toppings & Celebration Philosophy (02:08–06:41)

• Samin recounts making elaborate toppings for a child’s birthday ice cream sundae bar, including inventive new crunchies like caramelized Rice Krispies and cornflakes, alongside classics (burnt honey hot fudge, salted caramel, marshmallow sauce, peanut praline, and brownies).
• Discussion about the “psychology of topping choices”: do you pile on everything or craft a flavor theme?
  • Samin: “Choices are really important at an ice cream Sunday event.” (03:17)
  • Hrishi: “I am getting chocolate soft serve…so I’m going to add to that almonds and coconut.” (03:59)
• Memorable Moment: Samin describes how her girlfriend Ebony’s bowl “looked like topping salad—very little ice cream, mostly toppings.” (04:47)
• Reflection: Samin often worries if a topping isn’t popular enough, but finds peace in making smaller batches or repurposing leftovers.

2. Shoofly Pie: Heritage Desserts with a Makeover (06:46–14:20)

Listener Question from Carolyn: No one eats their family’s shoofly pie (a molasses-based PA Dutch pie); how to update or market it?

• Hosts explore shoofly pie origins and flavor:
  • Samin wonders if the branding (“shoofly pie”) or its visual appeal (described as “cat’s litter box”) or sweetness is off-putting to new audiences.
  • Shoofly compared to chess pie (Southern sugar custard)—lean pies that originated from “making something out of nothing.”
• Molasses is tricky: Needs salt and spice for balance, otherwise risks being “cloying and almost burn the back of your throat with its sweetness.” (10:03)
• Tangible Suggestions:
  • Use a graham cracker or speculoos cookie crust instead of traditional pastry.
  • Salt is key! “A lot more than your grandma was using.” (12:00)
  • Update the classic “streusel”/crumb topping: more texture (bigger clumps), maybe even swap in caramelized Rice Krispies for crunch.
• Brilliant Branding Idea:
  • Hrishi: “Try bringing the exact same pie…just call it ‘brown sugar Pop-Tart pie.’” (12:32)
  • Samin: “Totally!”
• Samin promises to share favorite streusel recipes and is now desperate to make (and possibly rename) a “shoo-Rishi pie.” (14:16)

3. The Great Tuna/Chickpea/Salad (Sans Mayo) Question Roundup (14:24–28:23)

Triple Listener Inquiry:

• Rebecca: How to make tuna salad lunches healthier and packed with more veggies?
• Carla: What can you do with 10 cans of tuna other than sandwiches?
• Samantha: Husband has a “fear of white condiments” (mayo, ranch, sour cream, etc.)—what can she make?

Key Advice & Recipes:

• Upgrade Your Tuna:
  • Samin loves Mediterranean-style tuna packed in olive oil for better flavor/texture (brands: Portofino from Costco is a favorite).
• Picante Tuna Salad (Samin’s go-to):
  • Tuna, canned jalapeños, diced tomato, cilantro, mayo (or Greek yogurt), lots of chopped romaine—like a Tex-Mex crunchy-tuna hybrid.
    • “It tastes kind of like Tex-Mex cuisine or something…just a different spin on tuna.” (19:08)
• Lettuce Cups & Veggie Variations:
  • Lettuce cups (romaine hearts, Belgian endive) as an underused lunch delivery system.
  • Add crunchy, fresh veggies: celery, fennel, cucumber, jicama (“very fresh and watery”), maybe not carrots (too hard).
• Mayo-Free Route:
  • Go “French” or Mediterranean: salads dressed with olive oil + acid (vinegar or lemon), maybe with herbs, rather than trying to “fake” a creamy base.
  • For egg salad, mash cooked yolks with olive oil for an instant “homemade creamy sauce”—“It’s egg yolks and olive oil…but not a white sauce.” (21:13)
• Bean & Grain Salad Formula:
  • Well-seasoned base + enough oil + enough acid + lots of herbs + salty, pickly things + a crunchy flourish (toasted breadcrumbs, chili crisp).
• Use up Tuna:
  • Tonnato sauce (tuna, mayo, lemon, garlic; thinned and pureed) is wonderful for dipping veggies or roasted meats.
  • Spicy Tuna Pantry Pasta:
    • Canned cherry tomatoes, tuna, chilies, parsley, sometimes arugula or red onion.
    • “It’s just so sort of like tuna-y and delicious…It’s not cooked to death. There’s no cream in it.” (27:02)
• Cheeky Wordplay:
  • Hrishi: “You can tune a salad to whatever frequency you want.” (28:17)
• Memorable Quote:
  • Samin: “The lettuce cup is a great underutilized delivery mechanism.” (19:30)

4. Pro-Level Fridge Organization Tips (31:21–40:22)

Listener Audrey asks: Is there an optimal way to organize your fridge?

• Samin & Hrishi discuss approaches:
  • Samin keeps condiments and less-often-used ingredients grouped together in a "shoebox" (really just a box with the dimensions of one).
  • For visibility and efficiency:
    • Use clear, stackable containers (“less yogurt tubs”), masking tape or label maker for both food and fridge zones.
  • Fridge design matters:
    • Adjust shelves so that the bottom holds largest/heaviest; don’t bury highly perishable foods at the back of the lowest tier (“that’s where it goes moldy!”).
  • Professional kitchen wisdom:
    • “First in, first out” inventory, labeling, food safety rules (no raw meat above ready-to-eat).
    • “Everything has to be labeled. Everything has to be in an accessible place and also in a, like, an instinctive place…” (35:00)
  • The joy in zones: fridge sections for different world cuisines or ingredient types = quick access and less waste.
• Encourage listeners to send fridge photos!
  • “We could do a photo carousel of the most remarkable [fridges].” (39:59)
• Memorable Moments:
  • The “aquafaba” jar with a Brother P-Touch label.
  • “Our fridge children are our leftovers in glassware instead of actual children.” (33:46)

5. Bonus: Dining Out at Houston’s & The Trader Joe’s Friendship Tour (40:22–47:20)

• Samin and Hrishi share contagious excitement for their upcoming dinner at Houston’s—a chain known for consistency and hospitality, with anecdotes about strict table-size rules (“Even Dave Chang doesn’t get exceptions!”) and service so attentive they’ll bring a fresh ice-cold glass for your martini.
• Houston’s Order Rituals:
  • Remoulade sauce is so good “I want to dip my fries in the remoulade” (41:32)
  • Samin: “It’s our favorite celebratory meal…high quality veggie burger was the height of luxury.” (43:50)
• Trader Joe’s Favorites Exchange:
  • The hosts and Mary tour each other’s favorites, highlighting:
    • Samin: Taiwanese scallion pancakes (freezer), freeze-dried ginger packets (tea aisle; “tastes like you just steeped fresh ginger” [46:07])
    • Hrishi: Chocolate-covered honey grahams with dark chocolate and sea salt (44:39)
    • Mary: Golden berries (cape gooseberry/tomatillo kin)—“super sour, sticky” (45:10)
  • Samin points out, “I had no idea…it’s a section I never even went to,” confirming the value of a guided TJs tour.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On audience participation with legacy desserts:
  “Try bringing the exact same pie…just call it ‘brown sugar Pop-Tart pie.’” —Hrishikesh Hirway (12:32)
• On the art of fridge labeling:
  “Everything has to be labeled. Everything has to be in an accessible place and also in an instinctive place…” —Samin Nosrat (35:00)
• On creative salad delivery:
  “The lettuce cup is a great underutilized mechanism, like, delivery mechanism.” —Samin Nosrat (19:30)
• On upgrading classics with a modern crunch:
  “You could do something crazy and…top it with some kind of caramelized rice crispy or something similar that’s adding a crunch to what sounds like it’s a very, like, soft and mushy thing.” —Samin Nosrat (13:15)
• On bridging cultures and nostalgia at Houston’s:
  “It is a place where everyone, no matter who they are, when you walk in, you can be made to feel like a privileged businessman.” —Hrishikesh Hirway (40:45)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 02:08 – 06:41: Ice cream sundaes and topping psychology
• 06:46 – 14:20: Shoofly pie legacy and remix ideas; rebranding “brown sugar pop-tart pie”
• 14:24 – 28:23: Tuna/chickpea salad extravaganza, no-mayo hacks, Euro-centric pantry solutions
• 31:21 – 40:22: Fridge organization: pro kitchen habits for home; labeling, storage savviness
• 40:22 – 43:50: Houston’s as the restaurant cult favorite, table stories, what to order
• 44:29 – 47:20: Trader Joe's guided friend-tours, favorite finds, exchange of hidden gems

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Tone & Closing

Upbeat, nerdy, and accessible, the episode is packed with practical advice and a sense of camaraderie between culinary-minded friends (“It was not nearly as painful looking at you for one hour as I thought it would be,” Samin jokes at the end [47:26]). Listeners are encouraged not only to send questions, but to share their fridge portfolio, food questions, and TJs discoveries.

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For Listeners Who Haven't Tuned In

• You’ll walk away with:
  • Creative ideas for remaking “unpopular” family classics
  • Realistic approaches to packed lunches with or without mayo
  • Step-by-step guidelines to fridge organization that work in any kitchen
  • Restaurant insider lore and new snacks to try next Trader Joe’s run
  • A spirit of experimentation and joy in home cooking, no matter your ingredient constraints

For recipes and more, visit homecookingshow.com or find Samin and Hrishi’s Substacks for extra content.

Transcript

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

Hey, it's Christopher Kimball from Milk Street Radio. Sounds like I'm bragging. And I am. We're the number one most downloaded food podcast in America. You know, Milk Street Radio travels the world in search of the very best food stories. You'll hear about smuggling eels on the black market, the secret intelligence of plants, and insider tips to eating in Paris. And every week, listeners call in with their toughest culinary mysteries. Discover a world of food stories by searching your podcast app for Mill Street Radio. This episode is brought to you by Butcherbox. ButcherBox delivers over 100 premium protein choices straight to your door, including grass fed beef, free range, organic chicken and wild caught seafood. For nearly a decade, Butcherbox has led the industry with meat and seafood that's antibiotic free, hormone free and independently verified.

[Samin Nosrat]

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[Hrishikesh Hirway]

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[Samin Nosrat]

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[Hrishikesh Hirway]

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[Samin Nosrat]

Hi, I'm Samin Nosrat.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

And I'm Hrishikeshirway.

[Samin Nosrat]

And we're home cooking.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

This is episode 21 of our four part series, the second episode of our new season.

[Mary Dolan]

Yeah.

[Samin Nosrat]

And the first time ever that we're recording in person.

[Mary Dolan]

Yeah.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

Now you have to look at me. I know you can't just turn away.

[Samin Nosrat]

It's true. I normally put a post it note over your face on my screen.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

Welcome to la.

[Samin Nosrat]

Thank you. It's nice and hot.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

What did you eat recently that you're excited about?

[Samin Nosrat]

Oh, well, yesterday we had a birthday party for a lovely six year old in my life, Vega. And she wanted an ice cream Sunday birthday party. So I made a ton of toppings.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

Okay.

[Samin Nosrat]

I made the burnt honey hot fudge from my new book good things. I made salted caramel sauce. I made marshmallow sauce, peanut praline. And then here are the two new things I'd never made before that. I think you would be interested in caramelized Rice Krispies and caramelized corn flakes.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

Caramelized Rice Krispies. What does that end up looking like?

[Samin Nosrat]

You just take some sugar, put it in a pot. When it starts turning caramel, you add Rice Krispies, and then you stir, stir, stir, stir, stir. And the Rice Krispies get a little toasty, but covered in this, like, brown car, like plain sugar caramel. And then they dry up super crunchy into little clumps. You can kind of break it up.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

Okay, so that's like a sprinkle.

[Samin Nosrat]

It's like a crunchy sprinkle. Oh, no. It's not like a bar. It's not like brittle. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And the cornflakes are like that, too.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

Okay, here's a philosophical question. Did you imagine when you were making all these toppings that people would choose one or two or were you thinking that there's going to be somebody who's going to put all of them on there?

[Samin Nosrat]

I thought I would put them all on. Okay. But I feel like choices are really important at an ice cream Sunday event.

[Mary Dolan]

Yeah.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

The other day I was thinking about how the first time I experienced one of these places, like a frozen yogurt place.

[Samin Nosrat]

Oh, yeah.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

Add your own toppings. You can have like, gummy bears, you know, and also toasted almonds and also coconut and also Cap' n Crunch, like.

[Samin Nosrat]

So many different genres of things.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

And then you'd see people putting all of those things on there. And I'm like, what about the thing you're eating?

[Samin Nosrat]

Totally. And also, like, I feel like so much depends on the base flavor of the frozen yogurt or the ice cream. Sometimes I want to go in a fruity direction. Other times I want to go in a nutty direction. Other times chocolatey.

[Mary Dolan]

Yeah.

[Samin Nosrat]

So I feel like consistency is key.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

And I'm always trying to imagine a complete package, you know, where I'm like, oh, I am getting chocolate, you know, soft serve or chocolate ice cream or whatever. And so I'm going to add to that almonds and coconut. So I'm making.

[Samin Nosrat]

You're making your ideal chocolate chip cookie in your ice cream.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

In my ice cream. I feel like it really speaks to a certain kind of personality, you know, like whether you go in that route where you're creating one identity for your.

[Samin Nosrat]

You're. So you're telling me you're a perfectionist editor with your ice cream and your audio big surprise or.

[Mary Dolan]

Yeah.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

Are you total chaos monster and you're like, I want all the flavors and every bite's going to be different. And maybe these things don't go together, but they're all things that I like.

[Samin Nosrat]

Yeah, it's hard to choose.

[Mary Dolan]

Yeah.

[Samin Nosrat]

Especially when it's homemade like that. Like there were also homemade brownies. There were so many good things.

[Mary Dolan]

Yeah.

[Samin Nosrat]

So it's very hard to choose, honestly. When I looked over at my girlfriend Ebony's ice cream, hers looked like topping salad.

[Mary Dolan]

Yeah.

[Samin Nosrat]

Like it was very little ice cream, mostly toppings. And I was like, that's a good way to go.

[Mary Dolan]

Yeah.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

Okay. Which was the most popular of your toppings that you made?

[Samin Nosrat]

I think the Rice Krispies were a hit. And also just the hot fudge. Yeah.

[Mary Dolan]

Yeah.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

And were you nervous or self conscious about any being more popular or less popular?

[Samin Nosrat]

I was nervous or self conscious about how salty I made everything, which is very salty. And how dark I caramelize things, which is very dark, like to the edge of almost too bitter. But I like that. And I think that the bitterness is a nice balance to the sweetness, but it sometimes is not necessarily 6 year old friendly. Luckily, there are only three 6 year olds, so.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

And how sophisticated of a palate do.

[Samin Nosrat]

Those 6 year olds? Honestly, most of them just went for the rainbow sprinkles, so. Yeah.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

So they're kindred spirits with you.

[Samin Nosrat]

Yeah, it's true. It's true.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

Like when you make something, especially when you make multiple things, do you ever feel bad? Bad for the one that gets eaten the least?

[Samin Nosrat]

Yeah. I normally make like quadruple batches of everything because my worst fear is running out. And I really did my best to only make single batches of everything. And so I was like, oh, everything will get eaten. But almost no adults ate ice cream. There was just leftover everything. So I didn't feel bad about any one thing, except maybe the marshmallow sauce because I made all this other stuff in advance when I had a little more time, knowing that yesterday I would only have a little time. But the marshmallow sauce you have to make right before because otherwise it starts turning into one giant marshmallow. Like in the bowl.

[Mary Dolan]

Yeah.

[Samin Nosrat]

Still.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

Still not a bad.

[Samin Nosrat]

No, not bad, not bad.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

It's like Mitch Hedberg's joke about escalator being out of service.

[Samin Nosrat]

Yeah. You're like, well, then it's just stairs.

[Mary Dolan]

Yes.

[Samin Nosrat]

Yeah.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

Apologies for the convenience.

[Samin Nosrat]

Yeah. So it was like that. It was like one giant bowl shaped marshmallow. And that was not the most popular hit. Even though I was very excited for people to See? Homemade marshmallow sauce.

[Mary Dolan]

Yeah.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

So, okay, well, that brings us to the first question, because we got a question that plays right into this.

[Samin Nosrat]

Okay.

[Caller]

Hi, Samin and Rishi. It's Carolyn, and I was wondering if you could help me with my shoofly pie problem. And that problem is primarily that no one will eat me and my sister's shoofly pie. Perhaps for obvious reasons, such as the name, but for context, this is a important piece of heritage for our family. My mom is Pennsylvania Dutch, and this is a, like, really popular pie in the region. We ate it all the time growing up, and whenever we bring it to events, no one will eat it.

[Samin Nosrat]

That's really sad.

[Caller]

It could be the name, or it could be that it, like, kind of looks like it could have come out of a cat's litter box, or it could be just the blandish flavor. It's made with molasses and a little bit of spice in there. But basically, I was wondering if you could help us figure out some ways to, like, modernize the recipe or, like, make it a little more appealing. Basically do, like, a fun spin on it so we can kind of like, acknowledge our roots and then also share it with a more modern audience. Would love to know your suggestions. Thank you so much. Bye.

[Samin Nosrat]

I love this question. I have never had shoo fly pie. I've definitely read about it. So I'm just looking up.

[Mary Dolan]

Yeah.

[Samin Nosrat]

Right now what it is exactly. There are all these, like, classic American pies, and it sounds like this one's a Pennsylvania Dutch version.

[Mary Dolan]

Yep.

[Samin Nosrat]

You know, the whole thing about pie is that it's, like, all purpose inexpensive way to use up something that you likely have a glut of and. Or how do you make something out of nothing? So there are a lot of these, like, buttermilk pies or. Yeah. Chess pie seems like a southern sort of analog to shoofly pie.

[Mary Dolan]

Yeah.

[Samin Nosrat]

Because the shoofly, it's very brown sugar and molasses. Y And chess pie is sort of a custard that's made with just sugar, but it's basically sugar pie.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

So what are they trying to use up?

[Samin Nosrat]

That one, I think, is not about using up. It's about we don't have very much to turn into a dessert. So we have some sugar, and here's a crust. But it also looks like there's two different types. Let me just do a little homework real fast.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

I need a old USB cable pie.

[Samin Nosrat]

To use up all your old. Yeah, yeah, it's true. It's true. Okay. There are Two types of shoo fly pie. Wet bottom and dry bottom. Rishi.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

Sorry.

[Samin Nosrat]

Here'S a description. It's a classic Pennsylvania Dutch treat combining a rich and flavorful molasses crumb cake layered with a gooey molasses bottom baked in an all butter pie crust. Oh, have you ever had those cakes that are called magic cake or Impossible cakes?

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

Impossible cake now sounds like it would be a bad idea. Just a cake made out of impossible.

[Samin Nosrat]

They're like, basically, it's like you mix up your ingredients and you put them in the oven to bake. And as it bakes, the pie or cake separates. And so you get two distinct parts to your cake or your pie. So there's ones where it'll be a cake part and a flan part or a cake part and a pudding part. And it's separated and it's intentional. I mean, maybe it was once a mistake, but now it's intentional. And it sounds like shoofly pie has that. Where the ingredients separate and part of it becomes more cakey and then on top becomes more puddingy or custardy.

[Mary Dolan]

Yeah.

[Samin Nosrat]

So that, to me, sounds delicious. I think the problem is if, like, things are too sweet. And molasses, a very specific kind of sweetness that I feel like often is at its best when it's highly spiced things like ginger molasses cookies or, you know, in the fall and the winter, we eat all these warm spice things. If molasses isn't balanced properly with salt or spice, sometimes it can be so cloying and almost burn the back of your throat with its sweetness.

[Mary Dolan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Samin Nosrat]

Which I could imagine happening in, like, an improperly balanced shoofly pie.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

Okay. So I've only had shoofly pie one time, ages ago, like, in Amish country. My family one time went on a trip to Pennsylvania.

[Samin Nosrat]

I love hearing about your family trips and the foods you eat.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

Yeah, we went to Hershey, Pennsylvania.

[Samin Nosrat]

Amazing.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

We went to the Hershey factory, of course. You know, like, my dad.

[Samin Nosrat]

Your dad had to see it.

[Mary Dolan]

Yeah.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

And I also was very excited to see where chocolate was made. And I remember we had some food from, like, an Amish stand a couple times. I can't totally remember where we picked it up, but I remember eating, like. Yeah, a moon pie I remember having. But I think I also had shoo fly pie, and in my memory, it tasted like a brown sugar cinnamon pop Tart.

[Samin Nosrat]

Well, that sounds good.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

Yes.

[Samin Nosrat]

Yeah, totally.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

So my feeling for Carolyn is if that's true, I think it's a branding problem.

[Samin Nosrat]

Yeah. I Do think it's a branding problem. And I also think I don't know what your recipe is, Carolyn. And I haven't tasted really ever shoo fly pie. So I'm using my imagination here. So I think some tweaks to maybe the base part of your recipe might be maybe you change it up and it's not an all butter pie crust, and you do a graham cracker crust or another type of cookie, like maybe specal ooze or spec las. I think that's how you say it in Dutch. I would definitely make sure you have plenty of salt in there. Probably a lot more than your grandma was. Because I think when things are made with only sugar, they can fall really flat. And then I'm trying to figure out, like, all of these recipes and the pictures of shoofly pie have some sort of topping. There's like a crumb looking topping, like a.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

Like a streusel kind of thing.

[Samin Nosrat]

Yes. And it seems like the topping is another opportunity, like, I think updating your topping. So let's see what we've got here.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

While you're looking that up, I'm gonna make my pitch to Carolyn, which is try bringing the exact same pie. And just because all things nostalgic and retro are big hits, just call it.

[Samin Nosrat]

Brown sugar pop tart pie.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

Exactly. Right. Don't you think people will be like, oh, I loved that growing up. I'm gonna have that?

[Samin Nosrat]

Totally.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

Do people still eat brown sugar pop tarts?

[Samin Nosrat]

I mean, my mom never let me have any pop tarts, so I wouldn't know, but I think so.

[Mary Dolan]

Yeah.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

Do you want to try one?

[Samin Nosrat]

Do you have one here?

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

I don't have one here, but I could get you one.

[Samin Nosrat]

Yeah. I'll eat one with you.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

Okay.

[Samin Nosrat]

Okay. So this topping looks like it's pretty classic, sort of streusel y, just like flour, sugar. This one has shortening. So if you're using shortening anywhere in this pie, I would say switch to butter for all fat uses. I think this is where we want a delicious streusel. And. Or you could do something crazy and bake your pie with no topping and then top it with some kind of crazy sort of caramelized rice crispy or something similar that's adding a crunch to what sounds like it's a very, like, soft and mushy thing.

[Mary Dolan]

Yeah.

[Samin Nosrat]

So what we'll do is I'll look for some of my favorite streusels and link to them in the recipes for you.

[Mary Dolan]

Yeah.

[Samin Nosrat]

But to me, a good streusel, especially if you're going full brown sugar. Like this is mostly just butter brown sugar. I would use a lot of like flaky style maldon salt. You might add a little bit of cinnamon into that and then it's all about that texture. It looks like these ones are quite sandy and really sort of crumbled. I like streusel when it in bigger clumps and it gets kind of like coffee cake topping vibes.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

Crumb cake.

[Samin Nosrat]

So. Yeah. Or crumb cake. And so I would go in that direction. To me, like I wouldn't be able to resist that.

[Mary Dolan]

Yeah.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

Well, hopefully that helps Carolyn.

[Samin Nosrat]

And I'm excited now. I want to make this.

[Mary Dolan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

Let me know if you do make it.

[Samin Nosrat]

No, I'm never going to let you know if I make it. We learned what happens.

[Mary Dolan]

Oh, yeah.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

Especially if it turns out delicious.

[Samin Nosrat]

Yeah. Yeah. We could call it a shoe Rishi pie.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

Exactly.

[Samin Nosrat]

Yeah.

[Mary Dolan]

Yeah.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

Thank you so much for the question. Okay, you ready for the next one?

[Samin Nosrat]

I'm ready.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

Okay, get me. I'm combining three different questions here, but I'll start with how things began, which is with a question from Rebecca.

[Samin Nosrat]

Okay.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

Okay.

[Caller]

Hey, home cooking friends. I work an on site job and with groceries getting more expensive, I'm definitely leaning more towards budget friendly and healthier recipes for stuff to bring to lunch. One that I always kind of come back to is tuna salad. And I've tried a few different recipes in the past, but I feel like the one that I keep on coming, coming back to has some sort of like Greek yogurt or mayo base. And I try to throw in, you know, dill, celery, red onion, stuff like that. And it's good. But I would really love some new recommendations about how to sort of spice up a tuna salad and also work in more veggies to it. So it's also on the healthier side. I'd love to know what ideas you have or what your go to's are. Also open if you have any chickpea salad recipes that you would also recommend for a quick and easy take to work lunch. Thanks so much for your help.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

Okay. And then there's a question that we got so long ago from when we first started the podcast.

[Samin Nosrat]

Okay.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

That I had five years ago.

[Mary Dolan]

Yes.

[Samin Nosrat]

Okay.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

That I had flagged as like, I really like this question. I really like this caller. But we never actually got to it.

[Samin Nosrat]

Okay.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

But I thought while we're on the.

[Samin Nosrat]

Topic, let's just been waiting their chickpeas for five years.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

This is Carla.

[Samin Nosrat]

Hi, Simone and Rishikesh. My name is Carla.

[Caller]

I'm a student at Texas A and.

[Samin Nosrat]

M. She's already graduated PhD and really excited about your podcast. I just looked at my pantry for some reason. I have about 10 cans of tuna. Is there anything I can do with these other than tuna sandwiches?

[Caller]

I don't even have bread because people have stockpiled bread. So I'm really down to just eating plain tuna. Anyway, please help me out. I appreciate you both very much.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

Okay, here's the last question that just. I love it. I love it. This is Samantha.

[Samin Nosrat]

So my husband has a fear of white condiments, which is really strange and hilarious. So we're talking mayo, cream cheese, sour cream, ranch dressing. He won't touch any of it. And my problem is that I love chicken salad. I love tuna salad, I love egg salad. I love lots of things that have mayo in them. So I was wondering if you had any recipes for chicken salad, egg salad, tuna salad that don't use mayo. That might not scare him. Thank you. Love you guys. The fear.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

I'm like, so I gave you a little triple decker sandwich.

[Samin Nosrat]

Yeah.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

In one answer. Can you answer all three of these questions? What to do to make a better tuna salad sandwich? What to do with cans of tuna. And also no mayo.

[Samin Nosrat]

No. Have you met me? That's like too condensed and efficient. I want to give all of these people thorough answers and there is some overlap, but I don't. Yeah. Okay. Where I think I should start is by saying I love canned tuna, but I really love canned tuna from the Mediterranean that comes packed in olive oil. So like the Italian or the Spanish canned tunas, which tend to be more expensive. But my workaround is buy and get from my favorite store, Costco, which has a really affordable olive oil Italian packed tuna. This Portofino brand that's very delicious. And it's. You're not paying like, you know, $15 like you do when you buy Ortiz, which is the primo delicious brand. Also, the thing is, is that tuna is yellowfin tuna. It's just a more flavorful, fattier tuna. And a lot of the time what people buy packed in water or what is sold often in the states as light T albacore, which is a completely different fish and has a different flavor and different texture. So that's part of why I prefer the Italian and Spanish ones. So that being said, that already, if you're going to spend a little bit more money on, it will just up the quality and the flavor of whatever you're starting with now, whatever tuna you have, I Also grew up eating the classico, like lemony, celery, oniony, maybe dilly tuna salad. That's a very good go to. But in the last several years, my favorite has been. I've like ripped off this thing called picante tuna salad, which comes from the fancy deli near my house called Market Hall. And they make. It's so good, it's like bad good. And it's.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

Wait, why bad good?

[Samin Nosrat]

Well, it's like just not. It's not bouge. It's like canned jalapenos. Like diced canned jalapenos that have a very specific taste. I've tried it with fresh ones and it's not the same because they're pickling.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

Yeah, yeah, it's like the. It's like the subway sandwich.

[Samin Nosrat]

Yeah. Like pepperoncini or something. So it's canned jalapenos, diced up tomatoes, cilantro, tuna, mayonnaise. And then this is the curveball ingredient, a lot of chopped up romaine. So it's like somewhere between a green salad. Like you kind of are fine just eating spoonfuls of it because the salad is built into the tuna part.

[Mary Dolan]

Yeah.

[Samin Nosrat]

And I'm trying to answer your sort of work problem or the make at home eat later problem. So for that I would say if you're like assembling this into a mason jar, I would maybe put everything, like mix everything and make it delicious and leave the romaine out. And then you could sort of bring separately romaine leaves, like a heart of romaine, and then make yourself lettuce cups for lunch. You know, something like that. And if the mayonnaise is not your thing, I think this would also work with like Greek yogurt. But I really like that combo because it tastes kind of like Tex Mex cuisine or something. Like, it's just a different spin on tuna.

[Mary Dolan]

Yeah.

[Samin Nosrat]

I also think, like, you could totally go a different direction. I think any crunchy vegetables are nice in there. So obviously celery fennel is a really good one. I probably wouldn't do carrots. That's maybe a little too crunchy. But I would totally do cucumbers. Just anything to like, bring a little vibrance and counteract the mush of the tuna and all the other mushy stuff.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

If you're in a Tex Mex world, what about jicama? Is that too crunchy?

[Samin Nosrat]

No, I think jicama would be great. Yeah. And so fresh and watery. I think you want those like, watery, crunchy, fresh things. And then for me, what I would do with vegetables is like, really bring the lettuce cup. The lettuce cup is a great underutilized mechanism, like, delivery mechanism. And if you're. If your thing isn't romaine hard, I also think you could just bring a single Belgian endive and sort of, like, use that one cup at a time. Now, for our fear of white sauces, I think you could make this recipe with no mayonnaise and maybe just do an olive oil base and, like, push it with some extra lemon or vinegar. But I would recommend going a totally different direction and instead of trying to, like, fake the mayonnaise, there is a broad sort of category of salads that just don't use the creamy sauce and use olive oil and vinegar as the dressing base. I know you didn't ask about potato salad, but a really easy way to think about it is potato salad or pasta salad, where as Americans, you know, with picnics, we imagine those things to always be mayonnaise. Y But in other parts of the world, potatoes are boiled and dressed very simply with olive oil, vinegar, or even just a vinaigrette. You already had, like, a mustardy vinaigrette, and that's a super satisfying, light potato salad. So I think that could work really well for chickpeas, for canned tuna, or especially, I think, for egg salad. I think a really delicious thing to do for egg salad is to boil your eggs and then separate the whites and the yolks and mash the cooked yolks in a bowl with olive oil. And that's, you know, if you think, what is mayonnaise? It's egg yolks and olive oil. But this way, you're kind of making your own homemade, creamy sauce. That's not a white sauce. It's not mayonnaise. That can just become this sort of substitute that becomes then the base for your egg salad. Honestly, you could also do that for one of the other salads, too, if you wanted to introduce it into the chickpeas. There's also a recipe in good things for a chickpea salad. And I really love also bean salads and grain salads and those kinds of things. And I think the beauty of the, like, mixed things salad is you spend one amount of time and energy making it, and then you could eat it for many meals. Right. And kind of often gets better. Like, there's a kind of an arc of quality. It's like, okay when you make it, and then it's really good after it sits for a while.

[Mary Dolan]

Yeah.

[Samin Nosrat]

And then it sort of starts declining again. But like, I think that's the kind of stuff where it's like, very good to make in the morning or the night before and bring to lunch, or very good to make today and eat for the next two days. And again, the key with anything like that, where you're adding something like very starchy or bland like the chickpea, the bean, the pasta, into something you're going to eat at room temperature, you really want to make sure the seasoning is nice and high. So adding salt as an ingredient, but also adding salty and or pickly things to the salad and also making sure that it's nice and moist and like oily enough. So it's fine if it's not going to be mayonnaise, but just make sure you use a generous amount of olive oil and also lots of herbs. So I think in the book, the chickpea salad has an olive oily dressing, dill and then cucumbers and maybe some pickled onions. Yeah, or macerated onions. But I think that's kind of a basic rubric for any chickpea salad or bean or pasta salad is like your well seasoned, well cooked base starch. And then make sure it's coated with enough fat. It really has to have enough acid. I might use a mixture of lemon and let's say white wine or apple cider vinegar. Or my favorite right now is the seasoned rice vinegar. And then you could grate in a little lemon zest and then choose an herb. Dill, cilantro, parsley. Basil is great right now. Mix all that up and then comes your like little flourish. So if you eat cheese, you could crumble in some feta cheese, you know, also be so yummy is like at the end, a drizzle of chili crisp that has the crispies because then you're getting like something spicy but also crispy bits of garlic or shallot. You could even. This is kind of curveball, is I wouldn't put this in early, but at the last minute you could put like toasted breadcrumbs for some crunch.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

Toasted Rice Krispies.

[Samin Nosrat]

Toasted, right? Caramelized Rice Krispies. Yeah. I kept my solutions in the salad range, but you know me, I love tuna so much. There are many other uses. Another one for if our friend still has her 10 cans of tuna in the cupboard. A classic Italian sauce is called tonatto. It's like tuna, mayonnaise, lemon, maybe a little garlic. And you puree the crap out of it and it turns into this very like, creamy, thin sauce that traditionally is eaten with slices of roasted ve. But it's also good with, like, any other meat. Or tomatoes are delicious dipped in tonado sauce. And then of course, the tuna pasta, which is my comfort zone.

[Mary Dolan]

Yeah.

[Samin Nosrat]

And this one from the book, this, like, spicy tuna pantry pasta. I started making this when I was like, 23 and I lived in Italy by myself. I had no money. I ate most of my meals at the restaurant where I worked. But then once in a while, I was at home, and I had the tiniest studio apartment with the tiniest kitchen. But sometimes I just wanted to eat something different from what was being served in every place you could go. You know, Italians, like many other people from cultures, just want to eat their own thing. And sometimes I needed to eat, like, a flavor from somewhere else in Italy. And I had tasted this pizza when I first arrived there. I just, like, walked to some random pizzeria and I saw a pizza on the menu that was like, pizza with spicy tuna arugula. I think that's all it had. I think the tuna had been crumbled on there and chilies and baked. And then afterward there was an arugula salad on top, which I had seen pizza with salad on top, But I had never seen pizza with tuna on salad, like, and I just ate it. And it was so good. It was one of those things, like, you go to a new country, you have this experience, and you're like, these people know what's up.

[Mary Dolan]

Yeah.

[Samin Nosrat]

I never saw it anywhere else again, but I love that combination, so I was always trying to recreate it for myself. And in Italy, one of the pantry ingredients that's like, very commonly available and really good if you live by yourself or just one other person is you can get canned cherry tomatoes, and they come in a small 15 ounce size instead of here. When you open a can of tomatoes, it's almost always twice as much. It's the 28 ounce size.

[Mary Dolan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Samin Nosrat]

And so the smaller can is very practical when you live by yourself because you very rarely need that much tomato for one pasta pasta. So I took to making this pasta with a can of cherry tomatoes, canned tuna, whatever, chilies and parsley. Or I would sometimes put arugula on top. And I ate it all the time. I always, like, cook it with a red onion. And I still make it. It's just kind of the one of my comfort foods. And it's so sort of like tuna y and delicious. And what's funny is I was making it recently like we were. You know, I often don't want to Leave the house. And I'm like, what can I make out of what we have here? And so there was one night where I was like, oh, I'll make tuna pasta for dinner. And my girlfriend was like, okay. Like, begrudgingly. She was like, okay, yeah. And then later when I made it, she was like, wow, this is really good. I was like, I know it's good. I wouldn't make something bad. And I realized, like, she had been imagining tuna noodle casserole, which, honestly, I also love tuna noodle casserole. But this is a completely different. It's just very fresh tasting. It's not cooked to death. There's no cream in it. It's just tunas, chilies, oil, an onion, some garlic. It's really good.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

When you put the arugula on it, do you think it still counts as a salad?

[Samin Nosrat]

No, it's just pasta with some arugula on top. I mean, I don't do that that much anymore, honestly.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

Our go to thing is put arugula on pizza.

[Samin Nosrat]

Oh, yeah. Isn't it really good?

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

So good. It's so good. Because then I'm like, oh, I've had a salad.

[Samin Nosrat]

Yeah, I've had three leaves of fiber.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

I snuck in a salad into my pizza. So there's lots of options.

[Samin Nosrat]

Yeah, lots of options.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

I'm gonna say you can tune a salad to whatever frequency you want. Thank you so much for the questions.

[Samin Nosrat]

The good news is I don't have to respond in words. I could just have a big sigh.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

Not only are we back with a new season of episodes, we've also got brand new home cooking merch. We finally put our tomato can home cooking logo on a shirt. You can get it as a T shirt or a sweatshirt or a tank top or even a onesie for little baby home cooks. Plus, there's a tote bag with the drawing of the round salt can thing that has Samin and myself and our dogs, Fava, Bean and Watson on it. It is the pinnacle of tote bags and there is a pun in there if you think about how pinnacle is spelled. There's also a special shirt in honor of our special recurring guest, the man with hot takes and a surprisingly high pitched giggle. My dad, known to Samin and all my close friends as Sumesh Uncle. He has his own shirt that says Team Sumash uncle, featuring three little jars of saffron. And he undoubtedly has very strong opinions about their color and flavor. And of course, there's also still the OG sweatshirt with the drawing of the can of sardines. And the inexplicable shrimp Jenga Forever shirt. And all of this stuff was illustrated by our wonderful Mamie Rhine Gold. And all of it is available at Homecooking Show Merch. Again, it's Homecooking Show Merch.

[Samin Nosrat]

Home Cooking is sponsored by Home Chef.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

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[Samin Nosrat]

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[Hrishikesh Hirway]

Lindsay and I made their spicy kung pao toast tofu with peanuts and broccoli. And all the ingredients were delivered to our house along with the recipe. And between the two of us assembling and cooking everything, it only took about, like, 15 minutes to put together. Plus, think about all the time that we saved by not having to have the conversation of, what do you want to eat? I don't know. Whatever you want is fine.

[Samin Nosrat]

Which one of you is the deep one and which one of you is the high one?

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

Sorry. Let me make clear. What do you want to eat? That's Lindsay and then me.

[Samin Nosrat]

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[Hrishikesh Hirway]

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[Samin Nosrat]

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[Hrishikesh Hirway]

Okay, this is a question that we got from Audrey that I really love. It's not strictly a cooking question, but I think a very important one.

[Samin Nosrat]

Okay. Hi, Samin and Rishi. My name is Audrey, and I'm calling about maybe a neurotic question. My favorite. I am constantly reorganizing my fridge, and every time. Time, I feel like it's not quite oriented in the most ideal way.

[Caller]

And I'm curious if you two have.

[Samin Nosrat]

Found any rhythms with your fridge that.

[Caller]

Work best for you.

[Samin Nosrat]

That was my cat. Oh, that's my cat, Ruthie. Oh, really cute. I love you. Bye. Bye. Okay. I just went into your fridge to get some water.

[Mary Dolan]

Yes.

[Samin Nosrat]

And I was struck, as I always am, by the insane organization in there, like, well, I know that you have.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

A shoebox in your.

[Samin Nosrat]

It's not literally a shoebox, but it is the dimensions Of a shoebox.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

Oh, it's not. This whole time I've been thinking, it's literally a shoebox.

[Samin Nosrat]

Oh, that would be amazing if I put an actual shoebox in the fridge, because I have, like, a lifelong relationship to fridge organization.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

Okay, yeah, yeah. What were your impressions of my fridge?

[Samin Nosrat]

Well, I think I've mentioned this on the podcast before. I mean, I think give credit where credit is due. I'm guessing that most of the fridge organization is due to your wife, Lindsay.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

No, it's definitely a team effort. Oh, it's a joint. Yeah. The two of us have kind of different approaches to housekeeping, which could be summarized as. Lindsay is whatever the opposite of a hoarder is. Throw everything away. Maybe even before I, you know, like the other day I was making something, and I turned back to the counter to get the fork that I had.

[Samin Nosrat]

Oh. And she had already washed it.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

She'd already washed it. Yeah, exactly. I was like, I still have to eat my food. And, you know, similarly, like.

[Samin Nosrat]

So she's like, extreme organization.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

Minimalist.

[Samin Nosrat]

Yeah. Extreme minimalist.

[Mary Dolan]

Yeah.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

And very, like, zoomed in. And my particular pathology is sort of like, everything should have its place. Everything.

[Samin Nosrat]

So are you the source of the lazy Susan of condiments?

[Mary Dolan]

Yes.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

And I still. Sometimes Lindsay will put stuff in there based on size, and I'll be like, no, no, no. Categorically.

[Samin Nosrat]

Yeah.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

In the realm.

[Mary Dolan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Samin Nosrat]

There's like, a sparkling water area.

[Mary Dolan]

Yes.

[Samin Nosrat]

This is maybe my favorite thing that I think I've mentioned before here is that there is a mason jar with a homemade Brother P touch label maker made label of aquafaba, which is the chickpea liquid.

[Mary Dolan]

Yes.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

That I'm guessing that's all Lindsay.

[Mary Dolan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Samin Nosrat]

Also, these people have no children.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

We make up for it by just buying more glassware to put leftovers in. Those are our children instead.

[Samin Nosrat]

Okay. So I think the takeaways from Rishi's fridge are, like, categories and homes for each thing. So I also. This is the shoebox to which you are referring. I have a box that is where all of the sort of, like, condiments that let's call them from cuisines around the world that I use less often, but I don't want to throw away. Like, I go through phases where I eat so much mapo tofu, which requires, like, a black bean paste and a chili sauce. So I always want to have those. But then there are sometimes months pass where I don't use them. So things like those maybe different chili sauces or fermented things they all live kind of in one box to keep them from knocking around. I have a very small fridge. It's like a 24 inch euro style fridge. My kitchen is so small.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

Yeah, that's so funny. I've been in your kitchen so many times in my head. That fridge is huge because there's always so many good things to pull out of it.

[Samin Nosrat]

Oh, yeah.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

Now that I think about the physical dimensions of your kitchen, it's. Is that called a galley kitchen?

[Samin Nosrat]

Yeah.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

Yeah, it is a small kitchen.

[Samin Nosrat]

I also have my work kitchen, my studio kitchen, which has a much bigger fridge. And this is where I think some of my more helpful advice can come for you. As a young cook, my first, like, paid job was a position called Gar Manger at Chez Panisse. It's a French term that would translate to like keeper of the food. And you are responsible for keeping all of the walk in fridges organized, keeping full inventory, putting things in order so that it's called first in, first out. That the older milk gets used before the newer milk that just arrived. And just making sure that things are accessible and going to be seen and grabbed by cooks who are in a hurry and just are coming in and like carrying 50 things or whatever. So everything has to be labeled. Everything has to be in an accessible place and also in a, like an instinctive place and in an instinctive order, you know, so that idea of zones and categories as well as food safety, like, you would never put raw meat above anything, really, because there's a chance that like, it could drip down. So there's all these kind of things that you learn about how to put food away to keep it good for as long as possible, to make sure it's used in an orderly and efficient manner. And a lot of those skills and just sort of habits, those are how I organize my own life. And I would say a big one. A lot of people are now familiar with from the Bear and other cooking shows. Masking tape and labeling your food and even labeling zones of your fridge or whatever area, which helps not only you, but anyone else who's going in there or trying to help and put stuff away, to put it back where you're gonna look for it. I think think being able to create a system in your mind where you know where to look for something and you realize, oh, I'm out of pickles. Add that to the shopping list. Rather than like, I bought another jar of pickles and then I come home and you realize, oh, there are three other partially open and partially eaten Pickles. So I think creating zones, whether by having containers like a Lazy Susan or mine, is just like a, from Target, like a plastic box that I just put all my condiments in. The big fridge I have in my work studio is kind of lacking in terms of drawers. And so I bought little sort of plastic drawers that are clear. And I think this also speaks to you saying using glass containers is really important. I no longer put things away in old yogurt containers or anything like that because I always forget about it and then come back three weeks later and it's moldy. So I always use clear containers that I can see, ideally that I can stack. And when it comes to stacking and efficiency, round containers are less efficient than square or like rectangular things because there's no wasted space in a small fridge.

[Mary Dolan]

Yeah.

[Samin Nosrat]

So I think just coming up with systems, whatever they may be for yourself, that you can sort of commit to and internalize is going to be the way that you're going to get the most out of your fridge. So I would say clear containers, clear labels, clear zones, and also like, yeah, storage things. Yeah.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

I also think, you know, one of the big constraints is the architecture of the fridge that you have. Like we have a really, really annoying refrigerator because it's like the only brand that fits there. And it's got this thing where if you open the bottom drawer in the fridge part, you can't open the drawers above it because it gets stuck on them. Very, very annoying.

[Samin Nosrat]

That is annoying.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

But you know, you can adjust the shelves both in the main part and on the sides and that's really important. And I think like, maybe some people don't take full advantage of like, I'm talking about my dad's fridge now. Can you imagine the chaos?

[Samin Nosrat]

I cannot imagine 400 partially opened jars of goan curry that he consulted on.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

And so many like store bought packages of like parathas and things like that. So when I've tried to go in there, like one of the things I had to do was like, oh, let me move some of the shelves. But one thing that I found that's helpful is going from like a gradually increasing size from top to bottom. The smallest amount of shelf space, that's very smart. And then middle and then larger.

[Samin Nosrat]

And the tall stuff can get stamped.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

Up on the bottom. And it also makes it easier when you're loading and unloading if like the bigger head, heavier stuff is toward the bottom, lower down.

[Samin Nosrat]

I will say it's funny, I was making fun of your label maker and now I'M thinking literally everything in my work fridge is labeled with either a label maker or masking tape. It just makes it easier, especially when there's more than one person. And also when there's just one person like me who doesn't always pay attention, it just helps to have zones clearly marked.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

The most dangerous part of the fridge for sure is the back of the lowest tier.

[Samin Nosrat]

Yes.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

That's where the thing is gonna go moldy.

[Samin Nosrat]

Yes.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

My solution for that, which Lindsay absolutely hates, is that's where I keep all my old film.

[Samin Nosrat]

Oh, that's a good. I feel like that's a good solution.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

I think at this point she's like, when are you gonna shoot that film already? But at least it's not yogurt.

[Samin Nosrat]

It's true. Well, I hope that helps.

[Mary Dolan]

Yeah.

[Samin Nosrat]

I kind of want you to send us a picture.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

Oh, that would be great, actually. Maybe everybody should send us your picture. And we could do a. A photo carousel of the most remarkable.

[Samin Nosrat]

Especially if you have, like, the art of fridge organization. And you're proud.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

I pitched Samin ages ago on a YouTube series of just organizing people's fridges. So, you know, subscribe to our non existent Patreon and at a certain non existent tier, we will come over to your house and organize your fridge. Thanks.

[Samin Nosrat]

Awesome. So you have no more questions for me, but I have a question for you. Especially because we skipped right over the part where I ask you what you've cooked or eaten recently. But here's a little twist. Since I'm here in la, people need to know where we're. Our very important dinner date tomorrow.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

Oh, okay.

[Mary Dolan]

Yeah. Yes. Yes.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

Well, it's very exciting. We're going to Houston's.

[Samin Nosrat]

And what's Houston's? For the people who don't know the.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

Shorthand that I usually introduce this restaurant with is it is a place where everyone, no matter who they are, when you walk in, you can be made to feel like a privileged businessman.

[Samin Nosrat]

Yes. Like a CEO. The thing about Houston's is, whereas some restaurants are have it our way, Houston's have it your way. And there's nothing you can ask for. That's impossible. So you want big ice for your cocktail. We have big ice. You want French fries instead of baked potato. You can have that.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

One of my favorite things there is the grilled artichoke, which comes with this remoulade sauce, and it's so good. And then I get a veggie burger which comes with french fries. And they're like, would you like ketchup or Spicy mayonnaise.

[Samin Nosrat]

You're like, I want more remoulade.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

And that's what I'm like, what I want to do is dip my french fries in the remoulade sauce. And they're like, okay.

[Samin Nosrat]

Yeah, like Houston's for the people who know. And I'm relatively new because I did not grow up with the Houstons near me. It is a national chain, and sometimes they're called Hillstone. Hillstone and. Or other names, other things. Yeah. But a lot of Shep are obsessed with Houston's because of its, like, incredible sort of ability to deliver consistency and incredibly high quality service.

[Mary Dolan]

Yeah.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

Which is like one of the Michelin star things is consistency. Right?

[Samin Nosrat]

Yeah. And I feel like there was a Bon appetit story maybe eight or nine years ago that was about this, like, cult of people obsessed with Houstons and how they were trying to figure out how the company does what they do. And it's still, I think, family owned by the family that founded it.

[Mary Dolan]

Yeah.

[Samin Nosrat]

And they're very sort of clear with their vision, and I think they're quite private. So they were not, like, giving a lot of their info to the journalists. But I know Dave Chang, for example, from Momofuku, is, like, obsessed with it. And one time we were at, like an awards banquet, and usually after these awards banquets, all the food, people go out to eat, you know, whatever restaurant. He was like, where are you going after? And I was like, oh, we're going to Houston's. He's like, I'm coming too. The biggest table you can get at most Houstons is for six people, because all the tables are booths. There's no bad table. They're all good tables. And so when we called to make our party for 10 people, they were like, oh, no, we can't do that. And I was like, but it's for this famous Dave Chang, this famous chef. And they're like, we don't care. And I kind of love that, that they give everyone the same treatment. And so what they did for us, which was really nice, was they put us at two sort of next door booth tables. But I kind of love that they treat everyone like they're a vip. And the people who, like, told me all about Houston's, like, breathlessly, always use this example of if you order a martini.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

Oh, yeah?

[Samin Nosrat]

Yes. And if it takes you a little too long to drink your martini, a server comes by with a new chilled glass to transfer your martini into a new chilled glass, which is a hallmark of, like, extraordinary service. What's funny is Rishi and I are very excited to go to Houston to eat veggie burgers and french fries and, like, what's the other thing? I. Oh, the artichoke dip.

[Mary Dolan]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

When I lived here and I had zero money to my name, that would be the thing that would save up.

[Samin Nosrat]

For a special veggie burger at Houston.

[Mary Dolan]

Yes.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

That was, like, the celebratory meal.

[Samin Nosrat]

It's still the celebratory meal.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

That's what I was saying since then. Because at the time in the early 2000s, getting a high quality veggie burger was, like, unheard of. To go to a nice restaurant and have a veggie burger, let alone one that was actually delicious. It was, like, the height of luxury, and they just won my affection early on. But I'm very excited to take you there again. We've been there before.

[Samin Nosrat]

Yeah, we. But yeah, it's our favorite.

[Mary Dolan]

Yeah.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

The other thing I wanted to tell you about. And maybe we'll get to do this. I've been very excited about this idea of the Trader Joe's Friend tour.

[Samin Nosrat]

Oh, like, show each other what your favorites are.

[Mary Dolan]

Yes.

[Samin Nosrat]

Yeah.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

Because I feel like I will hear something from somebody about, like, oh, this is my favorite thing at Trader Joe's. And I'll be like, not only have I not tried that, I've literally never seen it. That is invisible to me because I go in there, I've got my things that I feel very excited about, and I feel like is a very curated list. And sometimes. Yeah, I want to know about these things. So Mary. The other day, I asked Mary to take me on her Trader Joe's tour. We had.

[Samin Nosrat]

What did she give you?

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

She showed me. What was the. It was the golden berries.

[Caller]

Golden berries?

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

Yeah, golden berries. Super weird. I'm not sure. They were cool, but I'm not sure.

[Caller]

Sour.

[Samin Nosrat]

Like, they're so. Oh, it's the same as. It's a cape gooseberry. Yeah.

[Mary Dolan]

Yeah.

[Samin Nosrat]

They look like a little tomatillo on the plant.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

And they're, like, a little sticky.

[Samin Nosrat]

Yeah, and they're sticky because the little. Yeah, they're super sour like them. Yeah. Are they fresh or are they dried? They're.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

They're fresh.

[Samin Nosrat]

Oh, yeah. You can get fresh cape gooseyberries at Trader Joe's.

[Mary Dolan]

Yeah.

[Samin Nosrat]

That's crazy. Wait, do you want to know my, like, top things that maybe you haven't?

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

Well, I want you to take me and show me around, but shouldn't we tell our friends? Okay, sure.

[Samin Nosrat]

Okay. What are your, like, top two?

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

Well, My new number one is the chocolate covered honey grahams with dark.

[Samin Nosrat]

Oh, that's.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

I mean, with dark chocolate and sea salt.

[Samin Nosrat]

Yeah. Like a honey graham cracker.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

Yes. It's sort of like a dark chocolate covered pretzel, which is already a thing that I love, but sweeter.

[Samin Nosrat]

Oh, that sounds good. And also has that, like, brown sugary caramel y thing going on. That sounds delicious.

[Mary Dolan]

Yeah.

[Samin Nosrat]

My two favorite things are the Taiwanese scallion pancake. It's in the freezer section and it is so good.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

Like, as good as a restaurant, because that's my favorite thing.

[Samin Nosrat]

It really is. And even like my Taiwanese friend, Emily sue, who was on our last episode. Yeah. Like, she approves. Two thumbs up. And that I just always have in the freezer because then I can for breakfast or dinner have a scrambled egg or two on a scallion pancake with cilantro, some sesame oil, and chili crisp. It's like a very good breakfast or dinner. And then my other thing, it's a really weird niche thing that I learned from a friend. Again, the same thing where, like, I had no idea. It just was a section I maybe never even went to. And if I had, I would not have seen this. Yeah, it's like this freeze dried ginger powder. It's in the tea area in these little packets. And you can mix it into water, hot or cold. And because it's freeze dried ginger, you dump it into hot water and it tastes like you just steeped fresh ginger in the hot water. And it is so good. And it's like $2 for a box of eight.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

So you might not remember this.

[Mary Dolan]

You.

[Samin Nosrat]

Did I already introduce you to that?

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

Because I was sick and you actually brought a box over here one time when you were in la. Now we get them all the time. Yeah, yeah, that one's really good.

[Samin Nosrat]

Yeah.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

Okay. And that ends the Trader Joe corporate sponsorship section of this episode.

[Samin Nosrat]

Yeah, totally.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

Oh, my gosh.

[Samin Nosrat]

We're just sellouts for $0.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

Yeah. And that's it for this episode.

[Samin Nosrat]

Yeah. That was. Wow, Rishi. It was not nearly as painful looking at you for one hour as I thought it would be.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

Okay, well, thanks so much to Mary, who's here over my shoulder.

[Samin Nosrat]

Yeah. Mary Dolan and Amalia Mourinho.

[Mary Dolan]

Yep.

[Samin Nosrat]

And Zach McNeese and Mamie Reingold, who does all of our artwork.

[Mary Dolan]

Yes.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

And to all of you who have listened and are hopefully going to come see us in person, go to chamine.com appearances if you want tickets and if you have questions, please send them to us, we might actually pull some questions.

[Samin Nosrat]

To do in person at our events in San Francisco, Boston, Austin, where the heck else?

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

Houston, Dallas. Houston.

[Samin Nosrat]

Dallas.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

And Los Angeles.

[Samin Nosrat]

And Los Angeles.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

Yeah. So if you're coming to one of those shows especially and you have a question, please let us know and put in the subject line the city of.

[Samin Nosrat]

The like appearance of the thing so we can know to pull those for those cities.

[Mary Dolan]

Yeah.

[Samin Nosrat]

So let's see if I remember my script. Yeah, yeah, I'm Samin.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

Yes, that's true.

[Samin Nosrat]

Stay well, take care of each other and be together. No, I normally read this stuff off of a screen.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

People Home cooking is a proud member of Radiotopia from prx.

[Samin Nosrat]

It's a network that helps artists independently. Blah, blah, blah, blah.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

Nailed it.

[Samin Nosrat]

Yeah.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

Network of independent artists. Own owned, listener supported podcasts. And you can learn more at Radiotopia fm. And then you say, for transcripts and recipe ideas that came from this episode.

[Samin Nosrat]

Oh. Visit shrimpjanga.com or homecookingshow.com the homecooking.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

Show.

[Samin Nosrat]

Oh, homecooking show.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

You can subscribe to Samin's substack where she's sharing all kinds of fun things and video and it's been delightful to read and subscribe to.

[Samin Nosrat]

There's a lot of opportunities for Rishis to make puns in the comments, so if you really are a super fan, you can fully see that happening there. Rishi's got a substack called Accept Cookies where he generally writes about stuff that I discover two to three years before I.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

And then before she tells me about it, before she says, have you seen this movie? Yeah. So find us on there and come to a show.

[Samin Nosrat]

And until then, stay healthy, eat well and take care of each other.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

And thanks for listening.

[Samin Nosrat]

And thanks for listening.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

Until next time.

[Samin Nosrat]

I'm Samin.

[Hrishikesh Hirway]

And I'm Rishi.

[Samin Nosrat]

And we'll be home cooking Radiotopia from prx.