Mulberry Me Alive (with Dr. Sumesh Uncle Hirway) - Home Cooking

Transcript

A (0:01)

Hey, it's Christopher Kimball from Milk Street Radio. Sounds like I'm bragging. And I am. We're the number one most downloaded food podcast in America. You know, Milk Street Radio travels the world in search of the very best food stories. You'll hear about smuggling eels on the black market, the secret intelligence of plants, and insider tips to eating in Paris. And every week, listeners call in with their toughest culinary mysteries. Discover a world of food stories by searching your podcast app. For Mill Street Radio.

B (0:30)

I'm Samin Nosrat.

C (0:32)

And I'm Hrishikesh Sherway.

B (0:36)

And then you say, and we're home cooking.

C (0:40)

This is now a podcast that I guess we make once a year. And so this year we bring you episode 17 of our four part series.

B (0:49)

Oh, my God. Everyone's like, oh, you're recording again? I'm like, well, where she made me. I had to set up this audio stuff that was all rusty.

C (1:00)

Yeah. Yeah. I do like the look of your podcast. Cave.

B (1:05)

My real. It looks like Game of Thrones cozy back here.

C (1:08)

It does. Yeah. You are ready for winter. Between all the blankets and also the fact that you're sitting on. Is that an Aeron chair made entirely out of knives.

B (1:18)

It is.

C (1:21)

Well, Samin, it has been a year since we talked. Since we talked in a way that was recorded. But how's your 2020? This is. By the way, should we tell people that this episode and our lives have entered a new chapter? The chill era.

B (1:37)

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yesterday, Rishi and I decided that the two least chill people who've ever walked.

C (1:44)

Walked the earth.

B (1:48)

Yeah, we've entered the chill era of home cooking. And then he promptly sent me a Google Calendar invite, thereby canceling out. I was like, that's not chill, dude. Yeah, maybe you should go first. Tell us how your year has been.

C (2:02)

Maybe we should narrow it down. Remember how we used to do this?

Summary

Home Cooking – Episode 17: “Mulberry Me Alive”

Hosts: Samin Nosrat & Hrishikesh Hirway
Guest: Dr. Sumesh “Uncle” Hirway
Date: November 17, 2022

Overview

This long-awaited, once-a-year reunion episode of Home Cooking blends warmth, humor, and kitchen know-how, welcoming listeners into Samin and Hrishi’s “chill era.” The hosts reflect on personal loss, comfort foods, and the rituals that sustain us, sprinkle in spirited debates on texture, share food memories shaped by family, and offer practical advice (as well as trademark banter) on everything from schmaltz to parsley storage. Special guest Dr. Sumesh “Uncle” Hirway weighs in on the hotly contested difference between crispy and crunchy.

Main Themes

The Chill Era: Embracing a less anxious, more relaxed approach to kitchen projects and to life.
Grief, Comfort, and Food Rituals: Both hosts reflect on the loss of a parent and the comfort rituals (like watermelon juice or mango pie) that mark emotional transitions.
Texture Debates: Listeners call in about the difference between “crispy” and “crunchy.”
Grocery Stores as Cultural Hubs: Celebrating community favorites (H Mart, Wholesome Choice, John's, Armenian/Irani shops) and bread rituals.
Home Cooking Questions: Listeners ask about using leftover chicken fat, proper salting in marinades, and how to keep herbs fresh.
All Things Ice Cream: The story of “Mom's Mango Pie” ice cream, favorite (sometimes bougie) ice cream flavors, and the deep memories attached.
TV Food Scenes: A new “TV Dinner” segment reflecting on great moments in food TV.
Usual Bickering & Puns: Playful banter, gentle ribbing, and “pun penalty box” moments throughout.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Entering the “Chill Era” ([01:21])

Samin and Hrishi joke about how rarely they record, noting the show now comes out annually.
“We’ve entered the chill era of Home Cooking.” ([01:48], Samin)

2. Best Thing You Ate This Year ([02:05])

Samin shares an emotional account of her father’s passing and how watermelon juice became a small joy during his final days. She talks about Iranian fruit culture, seeking simple pleasures in hard times, and the healing power of ritual foods.
- “Iranians are really into fruit... there’s not a lot of dessert in Iranian culture. There’s just more like it’s a fruit-eating culture.” ([02:35], Samin)
On everyday comfort, she jokingly describes subsisting on Barbara’s cheese puffs.
- Detailed riff on the difference between “original,” “jalapeno,” various cheese puff textures, and her hierarchy of snacks.

3. Crisp vs. Crunch: The Texture Deep Dive ([06:43])

Listeners Maureen and Caitlin pose the classic “crispy vs. crunchy” question.
Samin’s theory: Crunch requires more force, happens on the back teeth; crisp is more delicate, can happen at the front.
- “Granola is crunchy... I don’t have to go all the way to my back teeth to get crisp.” ([08:05], Samin)
Hrishi offers a musical analogy: Crisp is “treble,” crunch is “bass.”
- “Crispiness is more of a treble sensation, and crunchiness is more of a bass sensation.” ([09:02], Hrishi)
Journal of Texture Studies cited: Foods judged “crisp” produce higher-pitched sounds than “crunchy.”
- “Foods naturally nearly always produced higher-pitched sounds than the more crunchy than crisp foods.” ([10:22], Hrishi)
Guest Expert Segment ([10:55]): Dr. Sumesh “Uncle” Hirway joins in with characteristic charm:
- “Crispiness... will be on the surface. Crunchy means you have to chew with your teeth.” ([11:06], Sumesh Uncle)
- British “crisps” vs. “chips,” fun cross-cultural comment.
Samin sums up: “Crispy is on the surface and crunchy is all the way through.” ([12:57])

4. Favorite Stores & Bread Rituals ([13:20])

Hrishi describes visiting Wholesome Choice (Iranian grocery in Irvine, CA), on Samin’s recommendation, praising their sangak bread.
- Samin shares family stories about her mom driving miles to buy maximum sangak.
- Shout-outs: House of Bread (LA), John's in Burbank (Armenian market with sangak)
“I’m really into a particular community’s grocery store.” ([17:38], Samin)
Both champion grocery stores as touchstones for identity and memory.
Hrishi shares a bonding moment with a Persian car salesman over sangak ([16:04]).

5. The Story of “Mom’s Mango Pie” Ice Cream ([18:08])

Hrishi tells the journey from his mom’s mango pie (previously on the podcast and in Samin’s NYT article) to a failed vegan version, which inspired him to collaborate with Salt & Straw on a “Mom’s Mango Pie” ice cream flavor.
- “I brought that idea to the folks at Salt & Straw. I sent them your article, they got excited... and so in the spring they had made their first batch of the Mom’s Mango Pie ice cream.” ([21:02], Hrishi)
Tasting description: kulfi base with mawa, mango pulp, cream cheese, Keebler graham crackers.
- “The ice cream has a kulfi base made with mawa and just a touch of mango...” ([23:19], Hrishi)

6. The Great Ice Cream Ranking ([24:38])

Listener question, Samin’s favorite ice creams:
- Regular day: Mint chocolate chip (“take it to the grave”).
- Bougie choice: Burnt caramel noyo (French, almondy, made from apricot kernels—she’s only ever had it once, but never forgot).
  - “It’s burnt caramel noyo... ice creams flavored with what noyo is—the French word for apricot pit—produce this incredible almondy flavor.” ([26:36], Samin)
- Samin’s “second favorite” is mulberry ice cream.
- Fun tone: light teasing, mock embarrassment over “bougie” taste.
- “It was so good. I think it was just like a special, like, really, really special thing that I knew would probably never happen again.” ([27:56], Samin)
Endearing banter about Samin’s “punnish” suffering at Hrishi’s hands.

7. Listener Q&A: Schmaltz, Marinades, & Herbs

What to Do with Chicken Fat ([31:21])

Samin sings the praises of schmaltz (rendered chicken fat, classic in Jewish cooking).
- Best uses: roasting vegetables (especially potatoes and carrots), infusing in rice (“schmaltz tahdig”), matzo balls, Helen Rosner’s viral “schmaltzy cabbage.”
  - “Truly, any potatoes cooked in chicken or duck fat are just so, so, so extra delicious.” ([33:04], Samin)

Salting & Marinating Proteins ([36:11])

Samin walks through her “rules”:
- More marinating time for large/bone-in meats.
- Acid in marinades is less forgiving than salt.
- Even if using a marinade, always salt the meat itself a bit in advance.
  - “If I put zero salt thinking that my marinade will take care of it, that doesn’t ever work right.” ([40:03], Samin)
- Differences between brine and marinade: brines submerge, marinades just coat.
- The marinade should taste “perfectly salted, even maybe a tiny bit more.” ([41:20], Samin)

Flat-Leaf vs. Curly Parsley ([42:08])

Samin prefers flat-leaf (Italian) for flavor, texture, and ease of chopping; curly just for juicing.
- “Curly parsley produces more juice than regular parsley.” ([43:01], Samin)
- “Italian parsley... when you’re biting on it, doesn’t get stuck in your teeth.” ([43:01], Samin)

Keeping Herbs Fresh ([43:46])

Wash, keep in bunch, spin/drip dry, wrap in slightly damp flour sack towel, store in plastic bag in fridge. Skip for woodier herbs (thyme, sage); basil is tricky.
- “Depending on the herb, you’ll be able to keep it for maybe up to 10 days.” ([45:50], Samin)

8. TV Dinner Segment ([46:30])

Samin spotlights a scene from the show Better Things—the main character, midweek, underdressed, and throwing together a meal for her family—capturing the spirit of home cooking as joyful, messy, and rooted in love.
- “This three-minute scene is like: ‘This is me.’ Cooking in my underwear, for myself or the people I love. I want it to be joyous, for a larger purpose.” ([49:21], Samin)
- Jingle: “And now here’s our TV dinner…” ([47:00], Samin)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On the texture hierarchy:
“Like you’re eating a piece of biodegradable Styrofoam that’s melting on your tongue.” ([05:30], Samin)
On crisp vs. crunch:
“Crispiness is more of a treble sensation, and crunchiness is more of a bass sensation.” ([09:09], Hrishi)
From Sumesh Uncle:
“Crispiness... will be on the surface... Crunch means you put it and you bite it with the teeth.” ([11:06], [12:16])
On the famed sangak bread runs:
“My mom would pack all of us... because Wholesome Choice used to have a limit to how many sangaks each person could buy.” ([14:47], Samin)
On ‘Mom’s Mango Pie’ ice cream:
“It still tasted like the mango pie. It was just in the wrong state of matter.” ([20:08], Hrishi)
On embarrassment over ‘bougie’ taste:
“It’s burnt caramel noyo. ...That’s why I couldn’t say.” ([26:12], Samin)
On cooking in her underwear:
“Underwear cooking. Underwear cooking. That’s my motto. That’s it.” ([50:20], Samin)
On Samin’s private sufferings from puns:
“I left Twitter, like, 90% to get away from Rishi, and now he just screenshots the bad puns and texts them to me.” ([28:30], Samin)

Timestamps for Highlights

| Segment | Timestamp | |---|---| | Entering the “Chill Era” | 01:21 | | Samin’s watermelon story | 02:11 – 04:10 | | Cheese puff hierarchy | 04:24 – 06:26 | | Crisp vs. Crunch (Q&A) | 06:43 – 13:05 | | Sumesh Uncle’s texture wisdom | 10:55 – 12:44 | | Wholesome Choice/sangak memories | 13:20 – 17:38 | | Salt & Straw “Mom’s Mango Pie” story | 18:08 – 24:03 | | Samin’s favorite ice cream | 24:38 – 27:56 | | Listener Q&A: chicken fat/schmaltz | 31:21 – 36:11 | | Salting & marinating | 36:11 – 42:08 | | Parsley and herb storage | 42:08 – 46:09 | | TV Dinner segment | 46:30 – 50:20 | | Closing food nostalgia | 51:03 – 53:02 |

Tone and Style

Warm, meandering, and intimate—like listening to two old friends riff over kitchen counters.
Food is both playground and sanctuary: a source of puns, comfort, cultural identity, and healing.
The show balances detailed technical advice with irreverence, play, and emotional candor.

For New Listeners

This episode is a tapestry of food memories, silly debates, everyday struggles, and genuinely useful kitchen wisdom—all wrapped in love, laughter, and a healthy dose of puns. Whether you’re grieving over a lost parent, seeking the secret to delicious bread, staring at rendered chicken fat, or wondering how to keep parsley alive, Home Cooking will keep you company (and likely make you hungry).

“Stay healthy, eat well, and take care of each other.” ([54:55], Samin)