Duality (Kathy Pierre)

Summary

Homicide 360: "Duality (Kathy Pierre)" – Episode Summary

Podcast: Homicide 360
Hosts: Anna-Sigga Nicolazzi & Scott Weinberger
Guest: Detective Danny Smith
Release Date: July 14, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode of Homicide 360, titled "Duality (Kathy Pierre)", explores the mysterious and tragic murder of 21-year-old Kathy Pierre in Miramar, Florida. The hosts, Anna-Sigga Nicolazzi and Scott Weinberger, together with lead investigator Detective Danny Smith, break down the investigation from discovery to resolution. They focus on the unseen dangers within close relationships, the subtleties of family dynamics, and the lengths detectives must go to bring justice for victims.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Crime Scene: Stillness and Mystery

[01:01-04:09]

• Kathy’s mother, Florise Jean, discovers her daughter unresponsive with bruising around the neck and a trace of blood.
  • No signs of forced entry, struggle, robbery, or disarray in the home.
  • The only missing item: Kathy’s black cordless house phone.
• Detective Smith: “You walk in and everything’s in place … There was really nothing abnormal.” [03:42]
• Initial assumption: Whoever killed Kathy knew her and had easy access.

Kathy Pierre: The Victim

[04:39-05:57]

• A brief on Kathy’s life: Quiet, close to family, homebody attending nursing school.
• Last seen the night before, on a date with a family friend. No obvious conflict or signs of trouble.

Investigation Launch: Timeline and Suspects

[06:05-08:57]

• Focus on entry access: Only a handful of people (family and close friends) had keys.
• First suspicion fell on her date, but his alibi checked out.
  • Scott Weinberger: “He’s a person of interest. He’s Not a suspect, not yet. … Detectives would definitely need to look deeper before they can cross Kathy's date off …” [08:02]
• Detective Smith emphasizes the importance of clearing individuals systematically.

The Family and “Cousin Jimmy”

[09:47-12:14]

• Kathy’s second cousin, Vladimir “Jimmy” Eugene, emerges as a central figure.
  • Family and friends describe an unusually close, sometimes “a little off, a little inappropriate” relationship. [12:14]
  • Jimmy’s demeanor at the house (“forcing tears”) raises suspicion.

Unveiling Inconsistencies

[14:13-16:30]

• Discoveries:
  • Only the cordless phone missing.
  • Kathy likely strangled from behind—no defensive wounds.
  • No foreign fingerprints or DNA.
• Detective Smith: “[W]e’re fairly certain that it’s someone that is known to Kathy and has some kind of access or knowledge of this residence.” [16:30]

Eliminating the Date; Zeroing in on Jimmy

[17:12-19:11]

• Kathy’s date has a solid alibi; nothing ties him to the scene.
• Jimmy has key access and an ambiguous, overly close relationship with Kathy.

The Phone: The Smoking Gun

[19:11-21:27]

• Jimmy agrees to a formal interview and claims he was out driving, phone off (not verifiable).
• Detectives find Kathy’s missing cordless phone in Jimmy’s car.
  • Serial numbers confirm the match.
  • Detective Smith: “We did not find it significant until we found a cordless phone in Jimmy's car. That's when it kind of clicked…” [19:59]
• Call records show calls from Kathy’s home phone to her cell the night she died—while she was out.
• Anna-Sigga: “The calls were literally coming from inside the house.” [21:27]

Jimmy’s Story Unravels

[22:05-26:33]

• Jimmy returns for a second interview.
  • Lies multiply re: whereabouts, the phone, stories to friends.
  • Never asks for an attorney; maintains overconfidence.
  • Emails and texts reveal not a father-daughter type bond but a complicated, obsessive, and sometimes violent romantic relationship.

The Nature of the Relationship: Grooming and Control

[26:45-29:02]

• Email excerpts paint a picture of obsession and conflict.
  • “I want to reassure you. The most important mission … is to spoil you with everything …” – Eugene to Kathy [26:55]
  • “It's funny how you look me dead in the face … and strike me not once but twice …” – Kathy to Eugene [27:31]
• Kathy details physical abuse and betrayal.
• Anna-Sigga: “It's the word grooming. … [Eugene] had, and I will use this word, groomed her and taken advantage of her youth.” [28:51]
• Scott Weinberger: “You know, to me, it's a married man twice her age hitting her and writing her love notes. I mean, that's not a mentor. That's a boyfriend with a wife at home and a lot to lose.” [29:02]

Motive and Opportunity

[29:03-31:38]

• Growing jealousy and loss of control as Kathy pulls away and starts dating others.
• Detectives subtly present Eugene with hypotheticals to encourage confession.
  • No direct accusation at first, but mounting circumstantial evidence.

The Crime Reconstructed

[32:02-33:31]

• Detectives’ theory: Eugene waited in Kathy’s room, called her repeatedly, and attacked quickly upon her return.
  • “He was so enraged, having waited in her room probably for hours … that when she walked in, he was at 100 and she was just walking in from a date.” – Detective Smith [32:58]
• Violence seen as an act of control, not premeditated intent to kill:
  • “I don't think Jimmy wanted her dead … but I don't think he wanted her to be with anyone else but him.” – Detective Smith [33:31]

Justice and Aftermath

[34:16-36:03]

• Nine-month investigation ends with Eugene’s arrest, conviction for first-degree murder, and a life sentence. He remains incarcerated.
  • He appealed, alleging detective manipulation; his appeal was denied.
• Detective Smith: “She was a true victim, and the families are true victims, the surviving members of this family. It's heartbreaking.” [35:00]
• Detective Smith praises the family’s grace and patience throughout the ordeal.

Reflections on Victim Advocacy and Lessons

[37:19-38:56]

• Anna-Sigga closes: Kathy Pierre’s story warns of the potential dangers in imbalanced relationships, especially involving family trust and youthful impressionability.
  • “No means no. Not just for physical interactions, but also for those who you do and do not want to spend your time with.” [37:19]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Detective Danny Smith:

  • “It was kind of odd in the sense that there was really nothing to look at in terms of ransacking, signs of a struggle, anything like that.” [03:42]
  • “Everyone's going to react differently. But in this case, multiple people were telling us, Jimmy's not acting right. You need to go talk to Jimmy.” [11:26]
  • “The four that live there have a key, and then Jimmy. Those are the five keys that are out that belong to that house.” [18:50]
  • “Jimmy went into the house. When Kathy's parents are sleeping, Kathy's out. Jimmy lets himself in, and he goes into Kathy's room and then uses her phone to start making phone calls.” [32:02]
  • “The one word that I would describe [the family] is they have grace.” [35:34]

• Scott Weinberger:

  • “You sit across from someone and you let them talk. You don't accuse, you don't push. And when they start digging, and they are always digging, you don't say a word. You just hand them a shovel.” [25:21]
  • “Motive and opportunity. He's got a marriage to protect. He's got a girl who's pulling away, calling him out and putting it in writing, saying things like, you hit me and you didn't hit your wife. … No forced entry. Fits like a glove for this suspect.” [29:02]

• Anna-Sigga Nicolazzi:

  • “So as we're reading some of this, and we're thinking about some of this, and it's the word grooming.” [28:08]
  • “No means no. Not just for physical interactions, but also for those who you do and do not want to spend your time with. Kathy Pierre's story should be a reminder to us all.” [37:19]

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Important Timestamps

• [01:01] Discovery of Kathy’s body and initial crime scene.
• [04:09] Confirmation of lack of struggle and missing phone.
• [11:26] Family suspicions around Jimmy.
• [14:55] Theory on method of killing and lack of evidence.
• [19:55-20:35] Recovery of the missing phone in Jimmy’s car.
• [21:27] Revelation: Calls were coming from inside the house.
• [26:45-28:51] Reading of emails that reveal the true nature of the relationship and hint at grooming.
• [32:02-32:54] Detective Smith reconstructs the fatal night.
• [34:34] Eugene’s life sentence confirmed.
• [37:19] Anna-Sigga’s reflections on the wider implications for vulnerable young people.

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Conclusion

"Duality" offers a chilling look at how a dangerous, controlling relationship within a trusted family circle led to a tragic outcome. The episode meticulously unpacks the careful investigation, with attention to detail and emotional insight, emphasizing vigilance for signs of inappropriate relationships and the lasting impact on victims’ loved ones. Homicide 360 pays moving tribute to Kathy Pierre, the resilience of her family, and the detectives who fight for justice—even when the answers are hidden close to home.

Transcript

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[Detective Danny Smith]

to be on the scene of an apparent homicide and not see anything except for really nothing was telling.

[Scott Weinberger]

I'm Scott Weinberger, investigative journalist and former deputy Sheriff.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

Hi, I'm Anna Sega Nicolasi, former New

[Scott Weinberger]

York City Homicide prosecutor and this is Homicide 360.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

In a homicide investigation, the people closest to the victim are often the best source of information and may be the best bet in the search for a suspect.

[Scott Weinberger]

And as we've discussed, the vast majority of homicides, especially of women, are committed by people known to the victim. And it's not just a matter of proximity or access. It's also because of close relationships with a spouse, a partner, even a neighbor are also the most likely to generate the kinds of strong emotional attachments that

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

can be the precursor to violence, betrayal, jealousy, obsession. There's not the kinds of motives usually held by strangers. These are much more often the product of close relationships and sometimes the signs of danger that were there all along but discovered too late.

[Scott Weinberger]

On the morning of July 3, 2005, Florise Jean entered the bedroom of her 21 year old daughter, Kathy Pierre, only to discover with horror that Kathy was not breathing. There was a bruising around her neck and a bit of blood in the corner of her mouth. She immediately dialed 911 and paramedics rushed to the scene, but it was too late. Kathy was already dead and initial Signs indicated she was the victim of foul play.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

But there were also signs that are often seen in crimes of violence that were missing. For example, there were no signs of a struggle, no signs of a robbery or forced entry into the locked home. It was the kind of crime scene that Ken stopped even experienced investigators in their tracks.

[Detective Danny Smith]

She was laying on her back in her bed, covers over her, and she was in bra and underwear, which upon speaking to the family, they said, that's quite normal, that's how she sleeps. So there was nothing out of the ordinary, no signs that her clothes were taken off and then putting back on, maybe in reverse or anything like that.

[Scott Weinberger]

Homicide detective Danny Smith was one of the first investigators on scene. And he was immediately struck by not what he saw, but what he didn't see.

[Detective Danny Smith]

Well, I can remember a fairly neat residence. You walk in and everything's in place. It's not dirty, it's not cluttered. There was nothing abnormal about anything about that residence. You walk in and you go to see where Kathy's room is. And it was kind of odd in the sense that there was really nothing to look at in terms of ransacking, signs of a struggle, anything like that.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

Kathy's room was neat, maybe too neat, especially considering that the ligature marks on her neck indicated she was likely strangled, with which typically might leave behind the telltale signs of a struggle. Maybe something like a knocked over lamp or some overturned furniture near to where she was found. But here there was none of that. And according to Kathy's mom, nothing was missing either, except, strangely, one thing. The black cordless house phone that usually sat on Kathy's bedside table.

[Scott Weinberger]

The Pierre family lived in Miramar, Florida, a quiet middle class suburb about 20 minutes north of Miami. And needless to say, it was not a community that was prone to this kind of violence.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

Kathy had been a high school honors student and was living at home with her mom, her stepfather and her younger sister while attending nursing school. She was close with her family, loved by her friends, and by all accounts had a bright future ahead of her. Why anyone would want to harm her was a total mystery.

[Detective Danny Smith]

She was described as a homebody, was interested in basically studies, work, a little bit of going out, doing what 21 year olds do. But for the most part, she was pretty quiet.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

In fact, Kathy was the type who was more likely to stay in than go out. But according to her sister, on the night of July 2nd, Kathy had gone out. She'd been out on a date with a family friend. Her parents had told the police that they had gone to bed before she arrived home. So they hadn't even heard her come in, Nor had they heard anything unusual.

[Scott Weinberger]

Kathy's sister said she likely got home after kathy because she saw some takeout containers of food on the kitchen table. Assuming Kathy was home and asleep, she went to bed again. There was no sign that anything was wrong.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

So sometime during the night, had someone entered Kathy's bedroom, Strangled her in her bed, and then left the house without being noticed?

[Detective Danny Smith]

No other signs of foul play throughout the entire residence, with the exception of the fact that she had some ligature marks around her neck. That's kind of when we start to realize that there's nothing weird here. Everything seems buttoned up. We spoke to family members, and they were adamant that their deadbolt was locked when they went to sleep. We spoke with Kathy's sister, who came home early that morning, Late at night, however way you want to look at it. And she was adamant that the front door was locked, that the deadbolt was on.

[Scott Weinberger]

Whoever did this didn't have to force their way in. That means either had a key Or Kathy had let them inside. So the question becomes, who had access? What, her sister, her mom, her stepdad. Sure, but what about the guy she had just gone on a date with?

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

So detectives learned that the man she'd been out with that night was a friend. But it was their first date. They'd gone to dinner. Kathy had driven. She dropped him off at his home, supposedly before heading back to her house. Her sister told detectives that Kathy had been in good spirits before she left. She had seen no sign of conflict between the two, at least nothing that set off alarms at the time.

[Detective Danny Smith]

The younger sister had a short conversation with Kathy. Kathy was happy. She was in a good mood. And then Kathy ultimately went on a date with a friend of hers, and she drove. So she went and picked her date up, and then they went out for the evening together. So we had no issues in the plans or no altercations or anything like that leading up until the next day.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

So part of me is, like, already thinking, like, it would almost be too easy to be the date. Right. I mean, they're on a first date. Yes, the family knows that she's going out with him, but then he would've had to have attacked her after she'd brought him home and presumably come back and in her own home. Now, of course, all these things are possible, but for me, I'm not jumping there right away.

[Scott Weinberger]

Yeah, Danny's being realistic. He's a person of interest. He's Not a suspect, not yet. The date is where the trail picks up speed and I think goes dark. He was with her and then he wasn't. You know, I want this timeline from the moment she dropped him off until she's found the next morning. Every minute, I want to see him in person. His hands, his face, his neck, any scratches or bruises, defensive marks. I mean, I'd want his clothes, his shoes, his phone calls, text, location data. You know how important that is. It's giving his history. Also, does he have any priors, restraining orders? You know, this is the things that I'd want to be looking at. You know, I'd have to push back on the last person to see her live because the word is only known the window stays open until anyone can close it, right? That's what's important. Detectives would definitely need to look deeper before they can cross Kathy's date off of the list of potential suspects.

[Detective Danny Smith]

Ultimately, the job of investigators is to check, mark everyone, and say, you're cleared, you're cleared, you're cleared. This one's not. Let's focus on.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

In the meantime, detectives turned to the people who knew Kathy Bass to try to get any information that might help give them a clue to who might have wanted to hurt her.

[Scott Weinberger]

The piers were a tight knit group, and many of Kathy's family and friends were coming to the house the day she was found to pay their respects, giving detectives a chance to ask them what they knew.

[Detective Danny Smith]

Even though you could tell they were hurting, they were composed and they wanted to get as much information out as possible to assist us and finding out what happened.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

As foreign friends and family knew, Kathy had no enemies, no ongoing disputes with anybody, and they were mystified about who would have wanted her dead.

[Scott Weinberger]

But if anyone would have known anything, it would likely have been her second cousin, Vladimir Eugene, who everyone just called Jimmy. Despite being 13 years older than her, Jimmy and Kathy were especially close, and everyone in the family expected him to take the news of her death especially hard.

[Detective Danny Smith]

We were told by multiple people, when Jimmy gets here, he's going to freak out. You're going to need to have some people here. He's very close to Kathy. Just be prepared.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

Sure enough, when Jimmy arrived, everyone took note of his demeanor, but it was not exactly what everyone had been expecting.

[Detective Danny Smith]

My first impression of him was meek, very, very introverted and controlled in his behavior, especially hearing from some of the family and friends that he's going to freak out, he's going to go crazy. I can remember someone from the family specifically coming to Me and saying, do you know who Jimmy is? And I said, I've heard of him and he's not acting right. He seems to be forcing tears, but he's not really crying. It was almost like they were pointing us in the direction of him unknowingly.

[Scott Weinberger]

And as we all know, a good detective is always on the lookout for anything that seems off pattern or out of the ordinary. And if everyone's saying, hey, this guy is going to freak out by crying and yelling instead of, you know, whatever he may be doing, you're seeing some forced tears potentially that could be a red flag.

[Detective Danny Smith]

So we can look into that obviously. But we're never going to base an opinion on the way that somebody feels about a death or somebody reacts to a situation because everyone's going to react differently. But in this case, multiple people were telling us, Jimmy's not acting right. You need to go talk to Jimmy.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

Jimmy lived nearby in Boynton beach, about a 50 minute drive from the Pierre's home in Miramar. And and according to Kathy's parents, he was a welcome and somewhat constant presence at their house.

[Scott Weinberger]

Despite their age difference, he and Kathy talked nearly every day by phone, text or even email. Her parents described him almost like a father figure. But Kathy's sister, she saw it a little differently. To her, the relationship always seemed, quote,

[Detective Danny Smith]

a little off, a little inappropriate. I guess you could say. This is not normal behavior to sit around in your underwear with your second cousin and talk on the phone and talk about love and all that stuff. It's not normal.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

So was cousin Jimmy a doting confidant who may have had information about Kathy's personal life that could help solve her murder?

[Scott Weinberger]

Or did his unusually close relationship with the victim make cousin Jimmy a potential suspect?

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

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[Scott Weinberger]

The murder likely happened sometime in the middle of the night while her parents were sleeping just down the hall. And the killer somehow left behind no signs of a struggle, no signs of forced entry or, or robbery, and no other physical evidence that might provide a clue to their identity.

[Detective Danny Smith]

We did find that the only thing that was really missing from inside her room was a cordless telephone. That was really the only thing that. And we didn't know that per se because we don't know exactly what's in or out someone's house. But speaking to the family and their personal knowledge of what's inside that house, they were able to tell us that the only thing that they, they could see was missing was a black cordless phone, a landline.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

But before long, detectives had put together a clearer picture of what they believed happened inside Kathy's bedroom that night. They now thought that she'd been strangled from behind, probably before she could even put up a fight. And thankfully, Tess revealed that there was no evidence of sexual assault.

[Detective Danny Smith]

It was a consensus of the investigators that she was not sleeping when this occurred, that she, she was probably strangled from behind, probably surprised. Beyond that, there were no other marks. There were no other indications that she was able to fight somebody. There were defensive wounds. It was, in terms of homicide scene, it was a pretty clean scene.

[Scott Weinberger]

Detectives believe this was also proof that Kathy likely knew her attacker. She didn't put up a fight. It was also likely the person was already in the room waiting for her when she got home.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

But detectives also knew that if this was done by someone close to Kathy, someone with access to the home, fingerprints and DNA might not be much help.

[Detective Danny Smith]

Any DNA, any fingerprints, even blood for that matter, can be explained away. But we still need to make sure that there's no foreign DNA. There's no foreign fingerprints of people that don't belong to be there. And from all accounts, no. No fingerprints. There was no DNA found, nothing from an outside person that had no reason to be at that house.

[Scott Weinberger]

Which left detectives pretty certain that the person who killed Kathie knew her and knew how to get in and out of her room undetected.

[Detective Danny Smith]

Well, I think day one, we're fairly certain that it's someone that is known to Kathy and has some kind of access or knowledge of this residence because of the fact that there's violence done in Kathy's room and not another thing has been touched around the house. It's my experience, that's our experience, that if someone's going to come into someone else's house and commit violence, and if they knock something over or break something, they're not going to clean it up before they leave. They're just going to take off. So I think from the get go, we're looking at someone that has some kind of personal knowledge of this residence.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

So there's only a handful of people who might have had access to the house on the night of the murder. Now, one of them could have been her date, right? No one was there when Kathy came home, or the parents had at least already gone to bed, and her sister wasn't back yet, so no one could verify if she'd come in alone.

[Scott Weinberger]

But when detectives sat him down, his story was simple. Kathy picked him up. She dropped him off after midnight. She told him she'd call him when she got home, but she never did. He had no key to Pierre's house, and when investigators worked the bedroom, they found no fingerprints, no DNA, and nothing that put him inside that room.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

So now, the other person who family members confirmed was a frequent visitor to the house and to Kathy's bedroom was Kathy's second cousin, Jimmy.

[Detective Danny Smith]

Some described it as father, daughter, that he was almost like a father figure to Kathy. But at the same time, there were instances where there was more of a boyfriend, girlfriend kind of vibe between the two, where they would spend hours on the phone together. If he slept at the house, he would stay in her room, which was not looked down upon by anyone in the family. I don't think anyone in the family believed that it was an odd situation, but they did note it, and they said that they, meaning Jimmy and Kathy, had a very close relationship where it was very loving, almost boyfriend, girlfriend, but at the same time father, daughter. So it was kind of hard to get your finger on exactly what their relationship was.

[Scott Weinberger]

But that wasn't the only thing about Jimmy that was raising eyebrows.

[Detective Danny Smith]

The next question is, who has the key to the house? And the four that live there have a key, and then Jimmy. Those are the five keys that are out that belong to that house.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

Detectives had met Jimmy at the house, where his unnatural behavior attracted attention from some of the other family members. But now detectives decided it Was time to bring him into the station for a formal interview.

[Scott Weinberger]

And lucky for them, Jimmy was willing to talk and talk.

[Detective Danny Smith]

He's not trying to hide anything. He's willing to come in. He wants to talk.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

When asked where he was the night of the murder, he told detectives that he'd been out all night Just driving around and thinking with his cell phone turned off. It was a story that was certainly hard to verify.

[Scott Weinberger]

And as far as his unusually close relationship with his cousin Kathy, Nothing more than an innocent friendship. But detectives had found something that. That Jimmy couldn't easily explain away.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

And as you all might be asking, or at least saying to yourselves. Let me guess. Wait. The interior house phone, that black missing phone.

[Scott Weinberger]

Yep. It was found in Jimmy's car.

[Detective Danny Smith]

At the time when family members mentioned that there was a cordless phone taken, we did not find it significant until we found a cordless phone in Jimmy's car. That's when it kind of clicked, and we realized that that was a significant piece of evidence.

[Scott Weinberger]

Detective smith decided to call Kathy's number from his cell phone. He heard the phone ring in Jimmy's car. Detectives checked the serial numbers and matched them to the receiver at the base, which was still sitting in Kathy's room.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

So now the obvious question. Why does Jimmy, who, again, was actually Vladimir Eugene, why does he have the cordless landline in his car? It wouldn't hold a charge or make calls outside of that very short range.

[Scott Weinberger]

And Anna, seeing that there was something else Detectives picked up from that conversation. While Kathy and her date were out that night, her phone kept ringing. He remembered her picking up, going quiet, and then hanging up. She looked up upset. And on one of those calls, she did get a word in. Are you done yet? And hung up. Someone was calling her that night. Someone she wasn't happy to hear from.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

So, given the timing, Detectives were very interested to know who had made those calls.

[Scott Weinberger]

And when they searched the records, it turns out those calls to Kathy came from Kathy's black phone.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

Yep. What many of you are thinking, the calls were literally coming from inside the house.

[Detective Danny Smith]

Someone from Kathy's home called Kathy's cell phone. And the man that she was on the date with from the home, that was a. That was a big find for us because that helped us try to figure out exactly the timeline on what we thought happened.

[Scott Weinberger]

Now, with all of these coincidences mounting, Detectives decided to bring Vladimir Eugene back in. This time, they would confront him with everything they'd learn.

[Detective Danny Smith]

So he believes he's the smartest person in the room. Well, let's allow him to believe that now we're on our terms. Now we get to analyze his movements and make him feel a little bit uncomfortable. But at the same time, we can make him feel comfortable that he's there to help us and not us harm him.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

But they need to step lightly. If he was rattled, he might stop talking altogether, maybe even exercise his right to counsel. And that would end the interview forever.

[Scott Weinberger]

Luckily for detectives, Eugene remained confident after the first interview and agreed to come in again.

[Detective Danny Smith]

But I know that second interview was a little harder. We called him out on a lot of the lies that we caught him in. He deflected, but never asked for an attorney and still wanted to talk his way out of it.

[Scott Weinberger]

Detectives were working through Eugene's story, trying to pin down any inconsistencies in his alibi. They were also pressing him further on his relationship with Kathy.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

And this is where these kinds of cases really start to turn on. On those subtle discrepancies, those shifting details.

[Scott Weinberger]

Eugene was getting caught in his own web of lies. He initially told police he bought the black phone a month before the murder and left it in his car. In the second interview, he said he didn't put the phone in the car, that his wife had cleaned the car shortly before the murder.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

Now here's something else. He had also told a friend of his that he'd gone through the night of the murder, which again, is contradicting the story he gave detectives about driving around to contemplate life. As he said things weren't adding up.

[Detective Danny Smith]

I think he walked out personally saying, those are some dumb detectives and they don't know anything. I just pulled the wool right over their eyes.

[Scott Weinberger]

But what he didn't know, but what he couldn't have known was detectives were about to open a door he thought was closed for good. They uncovered messages that told a different story about who he really was to Kathy and exactly what he had in mind the night she died. For detectives investigating the murder of Kathy Pierre, the pieces were starting to lock into place. The access to Kathy's room, the calls to her phone, and the discovery of her missing cordless phone. It all pointed towards one man.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

In an interview with Kathy's 35 year old second cousin, Vladimir Eugene, police had exposed some pretty big holes in his alibi and an overconfidence that could prove to be his downfall.

[Detective Danny Smith]

I think that that was telling, just that, that two minute introduction for that second time of him saying, yeah, let's go, let's talk, I've got nothing to hide. And we kind of both realized, non verbally to each other, that, all right, I think we've got this guy because he feels that we. We don't like him for this at all. And he can talk his way out of it.

[Scott Weinberger]

A good interview is mostly listening. You sit across from someone and you let them talk. You don't accuse, you don't push. And when they start digging, and they are always digging, you don't say a word. You just hand them a shovel.

[Detective Danny Smith]

Well, I know for a fact the second interview was a little harder. We played. You don't want to say good cop, bad cop, but there was a little bit of. Now we feel confident we've spent hours with this man in the room and we can now start to accuse him of stuff and little things here and there. If we accuse him of lying on something small and he doesn't throw his hands up and say, all right, I want an attorney, I'm out, then we can go a little bit deeper and deeper and deeper.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

Detectives had learned a lot more about the relationship between Eugene and Kathy since his first interview. The first time they'd spoken, Eugene had been described as a father figure. He'd had no record of abuse, no criminal complaints, and he was a married man with three children. But now some witnesses had begun to hint at a different relationship, something more akin to a boyfriend, girlfriend situation. They talked for hours on the phone, sent each other daily emails and texts, and spent nights alone together in Kathy's bedroom.

[Scott Weinberger]

When detectives finally got a hold of the emails and texts between them, a disturbing pattern emerged, One that Miramar police spokesperson called bizarre.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

From beginning to end, the messages showed a relationship that was romantic but also obsessive and volatile. Here's a few samples of the back and forth.

[Scott Weinberger]

This from Eugene to Kathy. I want to reassure you. The most important mission for the short time left on this planet is to spoil you with everything. The best way I can. Love always.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

And one from Kathy to Eugene, in part. I'll never get over the fact that you hurt me. Unfortunately, I can't get over the fact that the man I loved wholeheartedly could ever do what you did.

[Scott Weinberger]

And Eugene to Kathy again. I'm sorry if I sounded like I'm pressuring you. Have fun wherever you have to be, at wherever you have to be. Have some fun for me, too.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

And here's one in particular. Just pay attention here. Cause it's Kathy writing to Eugene again. It's funny how you look me dead in the face, in my eyes, and strike me not once but twice. The person that you claim to love so deeply, yet at the same moment, you didn't strike. And we're gonna leave the name out here, but she's referencing his wife. That goes to show who you really love.

[Detective Danny Smith]

I don't think anyone could have read those and mistaken those for a father figure to a daughter. I think 10 out of 10 people that read those emails would have. Would have perceived that as boyfriend, girlfriend type relationship.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

So there's this word that kind of comes to mind as we're reading some of this, and we're thinking about some of this, and it's the word grooming. Right. And so just to talk about grooming for a moment, and I was looking this up, and according to the Children's Advocacy Project, which is a nonprofit organization, they define grooming as when someone builds a relationship, trust and an emotional connection with the child or young person so they can manipulate, exploit, and abuse them. Right. So had Eugene been grooming her since she was a child? Remember, they had known each other and been close for years. And using her innocence. Right. When I'm thinking about just their age alone, to exploit her, leading her to then believe that this inappropriate relationship between them was true love. Remember, they're related by blood, though distantly.

[Scott Weinberger]

You know, to me, it's a married man twice her age hitting her and writing her love notes. I mean, that's not a mentor. That's a boyfriend with a wife at home and a lot to lose.

[Christy]

And.

[Scott Weinberger]

And that's where my interest sharpens, because now I've got two things that I need as an investigator. Motive and opportunity. He's got a marriage to protect. He's got a girl who's pulling away, calling him out and putting it in writing, saying things like, you hit me and you didn't hit your wife. She's done, and he knows it. I mean, men in his position don't walk away clean. They either get exposed or they make sure that they don't. Opportunity takes care of itself. You know, he had the access out of Sega. She opened the door for him at any hour, all the time. No forced entry. Fits like a glove for this suspect. So the emails also revealed Eugene's acute jealousy at Kathy's decision to date other men. And even more disturbing, they referenced at least one instance of physical violence between. Between them when, apparently Eugene had hit Kathy when she tried to intervene in an altercation between Eugene and his wife.

[Detective Danny Smith]

Yeah, I think trying to reconstruct the previous few weeks and or couple months, we could see that there was a deterioration. We could see that maybe two or three months prior, Kathy and Jimmy are dead set on continuing their normal relationship. And then there's an incident, and then you can see from correspondence that things are now starting to get out of control. Jimmy is losing this grasp that he's got or that he had on Kathy. He's losing control of her. She's now where. Normally Kathy would stay home at night and talk on the phone with Jimmy. And now she's saying, I'm going out. I'm going on a date. And that. That I. I think infuriated Jimmy.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

Now, armed with this information, detectives now start to push Eugene to come clean.

[Scott Weinberger]

In Danny Smith's interview with Eugene, he wanted to reference this. He said, you know, you went by the house, you hang out. After her mom and dad went to sleep, Kathy comes home, you confront her. You take the phone because you don't want to hear her calling the guy she was. Was with. Now, you know, that's a textbook move. Smith isn't accusing him. He's handing him a story, a hypothetical, a version of the night that gives Eugene a soft place to land. You know, saying things like, you weren't violent. You were jealous. You took the phone. That's all. That's detective Smith's opportunity to open the door for Eugene to realize the jig is up.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

And so even as they start to give him these breadcrumbs, right, these pieces of circumstantial evidence against him, like, even in the face of those pieces, Eugene was still trying to talk his way out of trouble. But the end was inevitable.

[Detective Danny Smith]

By the end of it, we were accusing him of murder.

[Scott Weinberger]

Here's what detectives believed happened that fatal night.

[Detective Danny Smith]

Jimmy went into the house. When Kathy's parents are sleeping, Kathy's out. Jimmy lets himself in, and he goes into Kathy's room and then uses her phone to start making phone calls. So he's calling from the landline, but he's calling from her room, we believe. And then at that point, my guess is that he's there. When she arrives home, she does her normal thing. She hangs her keys up, she puts her leftovers on the table. She comes in, and they. He somehow makes contact with her inside the room. Maybe they talk, maybe they don't. Maybe he goes straight to. To violence. I don't know. But no sounds were heard, so we can assume that whatever was done was done pretty quickly, and she really didn't have enough time to either fight and. Or make any noises.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

Detective Smith said he didn't think there was much time for Kathy and Eugene,

[Detective Danny Smith]

to argue my personal opinion. I think that he was so enraged, having waited in her room probably for hours, calling, not getting any response, that when she walked in, he was at 100 and she was just walking in from a date. So I think he had built himself up to the point where he just physically snapped and went straight to violence. That's my opinion.

[Scott Weinberger]

And why. Why did this older man resort to such extreme measures? Investigators believe it was out of a need to regain control.

[Detective Danny Smith]

I firmly believe that even all these years later, that I don't think Jimmy wanted her dead. I just. I don't think he wanted her to be with anyone else but him. So it was really a fatal attraction. We didn't even think Jimmy wanted her dead. But that kind of led into that second interview where trying to appeal to another side of him and talk to him about people do things. Love is a strong emotion. People do things that they don't mean and trying to kind of go that way with him. Because our read of him, our impression of him, was that he really felt bad. I think he. We all think that he felt terrible that he committed this, but the fact of the matter is he did.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

It would take nine long months to close the investigation, but detectives persisted. Kathy's family remained patient.

[Scott Weinberger]

And in the end, Vladimir Jimmy Eugene was arrested, tried, and convicted of first degree murder.

[Detective Danny Smith]

Jimmy got life in prison. He's still in prison. As a matter of fact, this morning I went on the Florida Department of Corrections website and just checked to make sure he was still there. And sure enough, there he was and still says life in prison.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

Vladimir Eugene did appeal the conviction, claiming, among other things, that investigators had manipulated him. During the interview process. The appeal was denied. Kathy Pierre was just 21 years old.

[Detective Danny Smith]

I think sky was the limit for Kath. The reason that when we had spoken and I had mentioned this case to you was because she was a true victim, and the families are true victims, the surviving members of this family. It's heartbreaking. And I think that not only would Kathy be successful, but I think she would be just such a good member of society. I really do.

[Scott Weinberger]

And Detective Smith gave a lot of credit to Kathy's family. Through the long ordeal, they remained committed to seeing justice done.

[Detective Danny Smith]

The one word that I would describe them is they have grace. They obviously were hurting, but anything they could do to assist in the investigation, any pitfalls that we had, any times that if there was a delay in getting back to them with information, they were so graceful and said, we know you guys are trying your Best. So, yeah, obviously hurting, but extremely helpful. I can't say enough good things about the family.

[Scott Weinberger]

Before I let you go, I want to say something about the man you've been hearing from in this episode. Detective Danny Smith. He and I recently had an opportunity to work together beginning in 2022. It's when I started this two year journey with him embedded at the Miramar Police Department, working on homicide that had gone cold for four decades. And that work turned into a podcast called Cold Blooded the Apollo Gym Murders. And for those two years, I wasn't just along for the ride, I was in it. Knocking on doors with him, sitting across from witnesses, working theories, running down evidence, and pushing on the parts of the case that just didn't add up. It also put me back in my element, back on the street, back doing the work I spent my career really honing in on. And we got somewhere. A family that waited 40 years for answers. Finally got some. That doesn't happen often, and I don't take that lightly. So when Danny's name came up on this case, it meant another opportunity. Opportunity to work with one of the best to ever wear the uniform. Different victim, different story, same detective doing the work the right way. I'm glad he's here, and I'm glad you had an opportunity to hear from him.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

Kathy Pierre. Only 21 years old, barely out of her teens. For years, she'd been close to a man who was older, a member of her own family as a second cousin. Cousin. And who over the years, it seems clear she at least thought she had fallen in love with. But this man, Eugene, who ultimately killed her, he was much older. And that relationship seems inappropriate in all sorts of ways. But I'm going to land on his age, his position of power, in that he was older and seemed to have the trust of her family. And he used it to help get close to this much younger girl. Remember, they'd known each other since she'd been a child. He had, and I will use this word, groomed her and taken advantage of her youth. But as she gained strength with age to see that this was not something that was good for her, she had started to try to pull away. So she'd gone out on a date and started to spend time away from Eugene. And that's when he snapped. No means no. Not just for physical interactions, but also for those who you do and do not want to spend your time with. Kathy Pierre's story should be a reminder to us all. Watch our young people because they are so much more impressionable as they navigate all that it entails to grow up. Cathy Pierre will forever be missed by all the friends and family who love her. Tune in next week for another new episode of Homicide 360.

[Scott Weinberger]

Homicide 360 is created and produced by Forsetti Media and Weinberger Media.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

Supervising producer is Walker Lamond. Managing editor is Kate Mack. Sabrina Sarai is production manager. This episode was written and produced by by Gary Scott, edited by Ali Sierra and Phil Jean Grande. Original theme music by Trey Anderson.