Footsteps on the Stairs: Part 2 (Gary & Roscoe Williams)

Summary

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Homicide 360 – "Footsteps on the Stairs: Part 2 (Gary & Roscoe Williams)"

Hosts: Anna-Sigga Nicolazzi & Scott Weinberger
Release Date: May 26, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode of Homicide 360 continues the gripping investigation into the 1995 double homicide of Gary Williams and his father, Roscoe, in Moreno Valley, California. The story centers on the break-in that turned deadly, leaving Kania Lofton as the only survivor. Hosts Anna-Sigga Nicolazzi and Scott Weinberger—drawing on law enforcement and prosecutorial experience—break down the complex investigation, Kania’s resilience, and how the search for justice unfolded, revealing unexpected truths about the victims, suspects, and those left behind.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Recap and Survivor Testimony

• Kania Lofton describes the harrowing home invasion:

  "All I heard is a voice that I was not familiar with and it said, don't move...there was a gun in my face." (00:07, Kania Lofton)

• Kania’s escape, running for her life after witnessing the murders of her boyfriend Gary and his father:

  "I think I ran two houses down and then I turned and I climbed over a fence...I needed help." (00:39, Kania Lofton)

2. The Crime Scene & Initial Investigation

• Detective Michelle Amicone recounts returning home to discover the crime happened across the street:

  "There are still detective cars at the scene...He said, this happened right across the street from your house." (03:22, Michelle Amicone)

• The thorough ransacking of the house suggested the attackers spent significant time searching for something:

  "My immediate reaction was, wow, they really went through this house. That house was torn up." (03:48, Michelle Amicone)

3. Identifying Suspects Through Survivor Testimony

• Kania was able to name two suspects—“Boochie” (Ronald Walker) and “Rob” (Robert Williams).
• Investigators relied on field interrogation cards to track down aliases and nicknames, crucial for quickly identifying suspects:

  "...identifying him because they did have his two nicknames, Boochie and Black, and ran that through...hit on Ronald Walker fairly quickly." (05:32, Michelle Amicone)

4. Kania’s Vulnerability and the Need for Protection

• Kania was not only traumatized physically and emotionally, but also under threat from the suspects still at large.
• Police booked her into hospital under an assumed name and provided round-the-clock protection.
• Kania’s identification of Walker and Williams from a photo array was vital:

  "I looked at the group of photos, and I said, that's Rob...that's Boochie." (11:52, Kania Lofton)

5. Unearthing Gary Williams’ Double Life

• Investigation uncovered Gary’s secret life as a prolific bank robber, a truth unknown to Kania:

  "So the more we delved into Gary Williams' background is when we discovered that he robbed banks and credit unions. That's what he did for a living." (14:29, Michelle Amicone)

• Gary’s hidden criminal ties became a central motive for the invasion; acquaintances—including Robert Williams—sought the stolen money from Gary, believing he had stashed away proceeds.

6. The Home Invasion Plot and Escalation

• Robert Williams, recently released from prison, pressured Gary into a robbery and, unsatisfied with the outcome, orchestrated the violent burglary.
• The crew’s brutality is underscored:

  "She was hooked up to a lot of IVs. Her neck was bandaged...how do you survive that?" (09:18, Michelle Amicone)

• Kania’s escape, physical courage, and determination became a linchpin for the case.

7. Arrests and the Legal Process

• Media attention and public tips led police to Walker, who turned himself in with a claimed Dodger game alibi—which Kania refuted.
• Robert Williams was found in Las Vegas, disguised as a woman.
• A third suspect was never identified or apprehended.

8. Kania’s Role as Key Witness & Courtroom Courage

• Kania walked jurors through her trauma in both preliminary and full trials, pressured and intimidated but unwavering:

  "When they brought me in there, I was afraid...I couldn’t even...hold my legs still when I got up there on the witness stand." (34:37, Kania Lofton)

• Kania’s courtroom identification was critical:

  "It was me. I said, he was there. It was me." (41:25, Kania Lofton)

• Despite a lack of physical evidence for the sexual assault, her account, supported by minor physical findings, led to charges and conviction on all counts.

9. Verdict, Sentencing, and Aftermath

• Walker was sentenced to life without parole; Williams received the death penalty (later commuted in practice due to changes in California law).
• Kania describes the healing and catharsis that trial and conviction brought:

  "I looked up and I said, I did it. I did it...at that moment, I wanted him and his father to rest." (42:35, Kania Lofton)

• Kania continues to thrive as a trauma ICU respiratory therapist, channeling her experience into care for others.

10. Lasting Impact and Messages

• Kania bears both physical and emotional scars, using her story to encourage awareness and empowerment among women:

  "If I could tell my story and I can reach one young girl...that thinks...she's in love, but there's that mysterious behind it...then my job is done." (46:06, Kania Lofton)

• Detective Amicone underscores Kania’s remarkable strength and courage:

  "I have never met anyone that showed such courage and such bravery...She's an amazing human being." (44:49, Michelle Amicone)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Survival:

  "How do you survive that? It wasn't a nick. It was a complete cut across the length of her neck that was bandaged. And I was just blown away that she was still there."
  (09:18, Michelle Amicone)

• On Facing the Truth:

  “I was devastated that he wasn’t there, but now I’m like, okay, you know, he lied to me.”
  (24:54, Kania Lofton)

• On Healing:

  "People always say...you could put this behind you, something of this magnitude. I don’t think I’ve ever put it behind me...But it’s also a reminder of how tough I know I am now."
  (44:04, Kania Lofton)

• On Courage:

  "There were so many things present from the time she got up off that floor...I don’t know anybody in my life that would have that presence of mind and that intelligence and all the steps she had to take to get away."
  (44:49, Michelle Amicone)

• On Justice:

  “Maybe not innocent in everything that he did, but he was a victim. His father was an innocent victim.”
  (42:12, Kania Lofton)

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Important Timestamps

• 00:07 – Kania recalls the beginning of the attack.
• 03:22 – Detective Amicone realizes the case is on her own block.
• 04:37 – Introduction to suspects Boochie (Walker) and Rob (Williams).
• 08:06 – Discussing immediate threats to Kania; need for her protection.
• 11:52 – Kania identifies her attackers.
• 14:29 – Investigators discover Gary Williams’ secret life as bank robber.
• 19:10 – Robert Williams threatens Gary and forces him into a robbery.
• 22:21 – Kania’s shock upon learning of Gary’s criminality during her hospital stay.
• 28:22 – Ronald Walker's arrest.
• 31:06 – Robert Williams' arrest in Las Vegas.
• 34:37 – Kania’s emotional experience testifying in court.
• 41:46 – Sentencing: Walker (life without parole), Williams (death penalty).
• 42:12 – Kania’s statement on justice and victimhood.
• 46:06 – Kania on sharing her story to help others.
• 47:36 – Kania reflects on her career and how her trauma informs her work.

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Tone and Takeaways

The episode blends expert procedural analysis with deep empathy for survivors. It highlights the power of survivor testimony, the challenges of prosecuting without physical evidence, and the nuanced impact of a victim’s hidden life on the investigation. Ultimately, it is both a true-crime procedural and a testament to the complexity of survival, healing, and justice.

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Concluding Thoughts

“Footsteps on the Stairs: Part 2” stands out for its sensitive portrayal of trauma, resilience, and the pursuit of justice. Kania Lofton’s story—her immense courage, lasting scars, and commitment to using her experience to help others—anchors the episode. The relationship between survivor and detective emerges as a model of how compassion and professionalism can not only solve crimes but aid in healing. This is powerful, humanizing true crime storytelling at its best.

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For further information or to hear Kania’s story in her own words, listen to the full episode of Homicide 360.

Transcript

[Anasega Nicolazi]

Previously on Homicide 360.

[Kania Lofton]

All I heard is a voice that I was not familiar with and it said, don't move. And I turned my head and I looked up and there was a gun in my face.

[Scott Weinberger]

A home invasion in Moreno Valley, California quickly turned violent.

[Kania Lofton]

He said it over and over again. I ain't playing. Where's the money? I said, what money?

[Anasega Nicolazi]

The attack claimed the life of Gary Williams and his father Roscoe and sent 23 year old Kanya Lofton running for her life.

[Kania Lofton]

I think I ran two houses down and then I turned and I climbed over a fence. I was in someone's backyard and I climbed over another fence and I wanted help. I needed help.

[Scott Weinberger]

But was the deadly robbery a random act of violence or part of a darker plot with motives striking much closer to home?

[Kania Lofton]

I didn't want to ask, I didn't want to know, you know, I didn't want the fear of having that weigh on me.

[Scott Weinberger]

I'm Scott Weinberger, investigative journalist and former deputy sheriff.

[Anasega Nicolazi]

I'm Anasega Nicolazi, former New York City

[Scott Weinberger]

Homicide prosecutor and this is Homicide360

[Michelle Amicone]

foreign.

[Scott Weinberger]

Before we get started, we wanted to invite you to check out the Homicide 360 Patreon page where you can engage with our H360 community and also find extra content.

[Anasega Nicolazi]

We also want to remind you that this episode contains content dealing with sexual assault and graphic violence. It might be triggering for some. In Moreno Valley, California, a brazen home invasion left two men dead and one incredible survivor.

[Scott Weinberger]

23 year old Kania Lofton witnessed the murder of her boyfriend, 28 year old Gary Williams and his 55 year old father Roscoe. She was seconds away from her own death before making a daring escape.

[Anasega Nicolazi]

In July of 1995, Michelle Amicone was a senior detective assigned to the Moreno Valley station. She was out of town when news broke about the double homicide at the home of Gary Williams. But she'll never forget the flurry of urgent messages.

[Michelle Amicone]

They were slid under the door and I remember going, okay, something happened and I pick up the pink slips and it's my partner Gary Thompson and then another Detective Brian Fountain that I worked with a lot. And they had both called and said, we're going to need you back here.

[Scott Weinberger]

We have an incident in 1995. Moreno Valley had pretty low crime, especially compared to other parts in the Los Angeles metropolitan area. Still, Michelle had experience investigating dozens of homicides.

[Anasega Nicolazi]

But this one struck home literally because at the time Michelle actually lived across the street from the crime scene.

[Michelle Amicone]

But I get home and There are still detective cars at the scene. And I think by then I had called Detective Thompson and asked him, what is going on? And he said, this happened right across the street from your house. We have a double attempt, triple homicide.

[Scott Weinberger]

One of the first things she did in her return was to carefully walk through the crime scene, which had been left untouched since the first responders had secured the location.

[Michelle Amicone]

When I walked in the house, my immediate reaction was, wow, they really went through this house. In fact, I thought at the time that they must have been there for hours because that house was torn up.

[Anasega Nicolazi]

The case was being investigated as a fatal home invasion. But it was clear to Michelle that there was still a lot to learn about what happened and why.

[Scott Weinberger]

Thankfully, Kanja Lofton, the sole survivor of the assault, had already provided police with the most important clues in the investigation. The identities of two of the men who attacked her.

[Anasega Nicolazi]

One, she knew by name, an acquaintance of her boyfriend's that went by the nickname Boochie. The other, the man who appeared to be both the mastermind and the man who sexually assaulted her, was Boochie's cousin, who he repeatedly called Rob.

[Scott Weinberger]

The priority of investigators was to identify both men and get them into custody. And I just wanted to take a quick sidestep here to talk to you about a very important tool that uniformed officers use on the street that could help in the end and identify people just based on. Not just a description, but on nicknames, aliases, and all things of that nature. It's called field interrogation cards. And when I trained new officers on the street, it was a critical point to drill into their heads. When you have any type of interaction with the public on a street during a lawful stop routine, questions become like, who are you associated with? What nicknames do you go by? And do you have lawful id? Putting all of that information and memorializing it on a card and then placing that into a central database. That's so important. And in this case, that is exactly how this investigation took its first major turn.

[Michelle Amicone]

At that point, they were working on Boochie and identifying him because they did have his two nicknames, Boochie and Black, and ran that through every police department and sheriff's department's gang unit in our area, Los Angeles, Riverside, Orange county, hit on Ronald Walker fairly quickly.

[Anasega Nicolazi]

Detectives hunt for Ronald Walker, AKA Bucci, AKA Black, began with releasing his name and photograph to the media.

[Scott Weinberger]

Given the high profile of the crime and the shock of the community, not to mention Walker's distinctive Jheri curl haircut, detectives believe it was only a Matter of time before he surfaced.

[Anasega Nicolazi]

In the meantime, Michelle headed to the hospital to talk to the crime's only survivor.

[Michelle Amicone]

And I had worked, obviously, homicides. My second caseload was sexual assault, child abuse. And so I had a lot of interviewing training. I went to the hospital, and that's when I first officially met Kania.

[Scott Weinberger]

You know, Anastasia, this is one of the most delicate moments in the investigation. You know, one hand, you know, there's critical information that could help identify your suspect, even stop someone dangerous from harming somebody else. But, of course, you're keeping your living witness. You're caring for them in this double homicide, even attempted triple murder. So you're constantly balancing urgency with humanity, choosing your words carefully and sort of reading the room.

[Anasega Nicolazi]

And here, also, where someone has been the victim of sexual assault, like, that trauma is different, staggering, at least for most. And so Michelle's background working with sexual assault survivors was really invaluable in her initial contacts with Kanye. And so when she went to speak with her, Kanye was not only still recovering from these severe physical injuries, she's also obviously traumatized by the harrowing events. She had not only been forced to watch her boyfriend and his father be killed, she herself, as we've already said, was a victim of sexual assault and an attempted murder.

[Scott Weinberger]

You know, her escape from her killers, running from house to house while essentially bleeding to death, that alone was. Would cause a lifelong trauma. So I think even investigators would understand if she was not ready to relive the details of her ordeal at that very moment.

[Anasega Nicolazi]

And there's also the fact that these men, who clearly had been intent on killing her, they're still at large. And as the only surviving eyewitness to their crimes, Kanye's cooperation with police was potentially very risky.

[Michelle Amicone]

Of course, we had three outstanding suspects, clearly violent, violent suspects who had come back in the house to finish killing Kanye. And then, you know, Kanye had mutual friends or cousins or friends of friends who knew, like Bucci. And so Kanye's hearing back from people, there's a hit out on you, like, they're not done, and you need to get out of town or something.

[Scott Weinberger]

It was critical that Michelle deployed an investigator's most valuable tool, and that is establishing trust and a personal connection with your survivor. And in this case, also the sole witness.

[Michelle Amicone]

She looked at me a little odd at one point and said, do I know you? And I said, I live across the street. And so that kind of broke the ice for us. And we talked for a while. I think her sisters were there. I met them. I met her mother. Then we started the interview.

[Anasega Nicolazi]

With bandages still on her neck and arms, Kania recounted from Michelle her story in incredible detail from her and Gary's return from dinner all the way through her daring and incredible escape.

[Michelle Amicone]

She was hooked up to a lot of IVs. Her neck was bandaged. I mean, all the way across. And I remember looking at that and thinking, how do you survive that? I mean, it wasn't a nick. It was a complete cut across the length of her neck that was bandaged. And I was just blown away that she was still there.

[Scott Weinberger]

During her career, Michelle had met survivors before, but no one had gone through what Kania had, and no one who had demonstrated such an incredible will to live.

[Michelle Amicone]

I just was in awe, frankly. I just knew that, okay, we can't let anything happen to her. And I'm not saying just case wise. I'm saying personally, like, nothing is going to happen to this woman after what she's been through.

[Anasega Nicolazi]

Kania's account also proved to be amazingly valuable from an investigative point of view, because she wasn't just a witness that caught a glimpse of a fleeing suspect. This was a firsthand account from an actual survivor, something that homicide detectives rarely. Rarely, if ever yet.

[Scott Weinberger]

And not only could she recount details of the entire crime, but she could also ID two of the three men responsible.

[Michelle Amicone]

Kanye's the one who told me firsthand exactly what happened and the specifics of it all. There was very little investigation into how it happened because we had the living witness. It was a matter of identifying. The investigation revolved around identifying them and then finding them and protecting Kania at the same time.

[Anasega Nicolazi]

For her safety, Kania was booked into the hospital under an assumed name, and police guarded her room day and night.

[Scott Weinberger]

Police had already determined that at least one of the suspects had a criminal record and gang ties. And while they didn't know what kind of reach they had, they certainly knew what they were capable of.

[Michelle Amicone]

Her father and mother were just beyond concerned. I mean, I can't even find a word for it right now in my vocabulary how worried they were about her and about these threats, realistic threats out there that they weren't done with her, they didn't want to witness.

[Anasega Nicolazi]

And yet, despite that very realistic threat, Kania positively identified both Ronald Walker, the man she knew as Boochie, as well as his cousin, Robert Williams, from a photo array.

[Kania Lofton]

I looked at the group of photos, and I said, that's Rob. That's Rob right there. They showed me another one, and I said, that's Boochie. That's black, that's boochie.

[Scott Weinberger]

For both her safety and her recovery, Kania was eventually released from the hospital and flown from California to Mississippi to stay with her family.

[Michelle Amicone]

And so we had put out the all points bulletins and the broadcasts and it went nationwide. She was in Mississippi for not as long as she should be, three weeks, and then called up and said, I'm coming home. I can't live like this. I can't live on the run. I can't live hiding out. You know, I need to be with my family, my friends. And she came home.

[Kania Lofton]

I stayed with my brother and his wife. I remember being depressed and I remember being afraid to go to the store, to go to the mall. My son, he was set to start kindergarten. And I said, I can't live like this. I just couldn't do it.

[Anasega Nicolazi]

So Kania hopped on a plane and went back to Southern California. She was determined to face her fears, not run from them. Only then, she believed, could her healing begin.

[Kania Lofton]

I felt like I was in for the fight of my life and I had to fight, fight. The fight was on. I had to come back home. I needed to get back to a sense of, of self. I needed to get back to being a mom. It was a journey. But the healing started.

[Scott Weinberger]

The healing started and so had the journey towards justice. And an important part of that was confronting the central question. Why had the killers targeted Gary Williams?

[Anasega Nicolazi]

Clearly they wanted to rob him. But why were they not satisfied with the money they found, the jewelry they took and other valuables snatched from around the house?

[Scott Weinberger]

And why did they keep referring to the rest of the money?

[Anasega Nicolazi]

Kanye told us she always had a suspicion that Gary's nice house and expensive cars had hinted at a secret life. But she also admitted that she had been perhaps too naive or maybe too scared or maybe just wanted that plausible deniability if it wasn't actually said so that she didn't actually ask him to tell her the truth.

[Scott Weinberger]

But Michelle knew that the key to solving his murder case and getting justice for him, his dad and Kanye was to dig into Gary's life. And what she revealed would put his murder into a whole new light.

[Michelle Amicone]

So the more we delved into Gary Williams background is when we discovered that he robbed banks and credit unions. That's what he did for a living.

[Anasega Nicolazi]

It turned out that 28 year old Gary Williams and his partners were suspected of committing over 16 and potentially as many as 20 armed robberies of banks and credit unions in California alone.

[Michelle Amicone]

He didn't walk into a 7, 11 and you know, pull a gun and say, give me the cash out of your register. They were planned, they were executed, and for the most part, successfully.

[Scott Weinberger]

The man Kanye knew as a charming, sharp dresser and carefree boyfriend was also a bank robber. And his double life may have gotten him killed.

[Anasega Nicolazi]

28 year old Gary Williams had claimed that his nice car, expensive clothes and large house in Moreno Valley were all thanks to a recent inheritance. But the truth was that Gary Williams was not just a good boyfriend, he was also a successful bank robber.

[Scott Weinberger]

In fact, Williams and his accomplices were were suspected of committing as many as 20 armed robberies of banks and credit unions in California all over the span of just a few years.

[Anasega Nicolazi]

It was a double life kept secret from his girlfriend Kania, who admits she was too naive or too scared to press for the truth.

[Kania Lofton]

I did not want to know. I knew something was not, I mean, you know, and he didn't win the lotto.

[Scott Weinberger]

But once investigators started canvassing the neighborhood, they discovered that his true identity as a career criminal was not just suspected. It was a well known secret on the streets.

[Michelle Amicone]

I didn't know Gary. I wouldn't say we were friends, but we were cordial to one another. I, and I've told Kanye this. I knew he probably was into some kind of criminal activity, but he also knew that I was a cop. I had cop cars there all the time. I drove a unit.

[Anasega Nicolazi]

Of course, suspicions and rumors don't make something true. And Gary Williams didn't go around dressing like a criminal. In fact, I don't even know what that looks like. And one size obviously never fits all. And his so called hideout, well, it was his actual home and it was situated in the most unlikeliest of places, the suburbs.

[Michelle Amicone]

I just knew that he was home all the time. He lived in a very nice two story house, bigger than mine, and, and had cars all tricked out, all fixed up. Gold rims, gold painting, gold trim, gold everything. But he was always very cordial. He would come out and if he was washing his cars or doing something outside, he always jacked his music up in his cars. The car doors were open, it was loud, but I'd come outside and go, hey Gary, you know, I got my family here in the backyard barbecuing. Do you mind? Oh, no problem. He turned the music down. So we were like that from the outside.

[Scott Weinberger]

You'd never know. Williams was one of the most wanted criminals in the state of California. In fact, he was described as a model neighbor. His house, the envy of the neighborhood.

[Michelle Amicone]

It was beautiful. It was well Kept outside, very clean. Lawn was always cut. Planters and everything were tended to. It was like he took as much pride in his house as everybody else in the neighborhood. There was no difference at all.

[Anasega Nicolazi]

Now, to some, his conspicuous wealth, without actually understanding what it was that he did, may have been a clue that he was maybe leading some sort of double life. But the fact was that it was also a major liability.

[Scott Weinberger]

Not only because it could have raised people's suspicions, potentially jeopardizing his criminal enterprise, but also because it made him a potential target for Thebes and other criminals.

[Anasega Nicolazi]

And one of those looming threats was a man named Robert Williams.

[Michelle Amicone]

So Robert Williams had just gotten out of prison for robbery and assault with a deadly weapon.

[Scott Weinberger]

Williams was a low level thug who ran a small crew of thieves in and around Orange County. But after catching wind of what Gary Williams was up to, he realized there was a potential for a much bigger score.

[Anasega Nicolazi]

Especially because Rob Williams was not above using the most extreme violence to get what he wanted.

[Michelle Amicone]

Rob had come to Gary and said he needed money. And he told Gary, you know, you're going to go rob a bank or a credit union or, you know, you're going to go get this money from me.

[Scott Weinberger]

He emphasized the seriousness about this demand by pressing a gun against Gary's neck and then threatening Gary and his family if he refused.

[Anasega Nicolazi]

And look, I mean, I think this kind of goes without saying, but if you're up to no good and breaking the law, it's not just the police you have to watch out for, but it is people also that are on the wrong side of the law. Right. If you don't follow the rules of law, not hard to imagine that others around you might not, too.

[Scott Weinberger]

I was thinking about the best way to describe this Anantzyga. You know, it's one of those uncomfortable truths investigators wrestle with. And of course, it's important to talk about it the right way. Acknowledging that someone had a past or living a certain lifestyle, it's not about blaming them for what happened. A murder is murder, full stop. Right. But we can't ignore that choices and associations sometimes place people in closer proximity to violence. Being around individuals who live outside the rules, who settle things with intimidation or by force, raises the risk in ways most people never have to think about.

[Anasega Nicolazi]

And so, under that threat from Robert Williams, Gary put together a crew and scouted a new bank to knock off. Only this time, he would have a new silent partner.

[Scott Weinberger]

On July 10, 1995, Gary Williams was acting as a lookout as two accomplices held up a Credit union in Orange county, making off with over $56,000.

[Michelle Amicone]

They robbed a credit union in Orange County. Gary and his two guys. Now, two of the guys were together, Gary was in a separate car. And so the two that physically went in and robbed the credit union come out with the money, jump in the car, alarms had gone off, and the police are pretty quickly in pursuit of Gary's two guys that have robbed the credit union.

[Anasega Nicolazi]

Gary's partners soon found themselves in a high speed chase with police before they were pulled over on the freeway. Gary evaded capture and made it home with his freedom, but without the money.

[Michelle Amicone]

The money is confiscated and Gary's two guys are arrested. Gary gets away. Rob is convinced that Gary has this money and there was $56,000 taken in the credit union robbery. He does not believe it when Gary tells him, I don't have that money. My guys were arrested. The money was confiscated. Rob doesn't believe him.

[Scott Weinberger]

Robert Williams was determined to get his cut, which is what prompted Gary to reach out to his buddy Buchi to buy a gun for his protection.

[Anasega Nicolazi]

So Gary, of course, must have known that his life as a bank robber was always a risky play, but now it was putting the lives of people around him at risk, too.

[Scott Weinberger]

As you can imagine, that revelation about both his criminal activity and that now her life was at risk must have come as a terrible shock to Kania.

[Kania Lofton]

I'm in the hospital and the FBI is coming to talk. There's talking amongst each other and to me, but kind of like over my head saying that, you know, all of these different credit unions and banks that they have, and I'm like, what in the world? I honestly, I was like, okay, God, if I am dead and I am in hell, just give me a signal, because this cannot be my reality. My world was swirling around me and I could not control it.

[Michelle Amicone]

Unfortunately, the information that we were gathering and then giving back to Kania was just as shocking as the information that she was giving us.

[Anasega Nicolazi]

But one of the questions investigators must have had was whether Kania knew more about Gary's criminal activities than she was letting on. Could she really not have known what he did for a living?

[Scott Weinberger]

But whether she did or didn't know, she obviously didn't realize that the criminal activity may have put her life at risk.

[Kania Lofton]

Someone had called my dad and made a comment that, you know, Kanye's dating that guy and he's trouble or he's bad news. And I was like, dad, people don't rob banks for a living. Like, you know, I was so Naive.

[Anasega Nicolazi]

According to Kanye, no matter how close they became in their relationship, Gary never revealed his secret. Whether that was out of concern for Kania or self preservation, it's impossible to ever know.

[Kania Lofton]

One night, Gary was like, we're getting close. You know, you and I were so close. He said, I want to just finally tell you, you know, what I do for a living. And I was like, huh? He said, are you ready? And I said, yeah. And he said. And then he started laughing, and I was like, nun yin? And he was like, none of your business. And he said, no, I'm just playing with you, babe. I'm just playing with you. And I was like, what is what? Like, what. What is this all about? He was like, nothing. It's all about nothing. I live off an inheritance is what he told me. And I even told him, someone told my dad that you do this and you do that. He said, well, I'm going to come over and talk. And I left the room while he had this conversation with my dad, telling my dad that, no, that's not how he lives. And yada, yada, this Kanye had gone

[Scott Weinberger]

through some pretty unspeakable trauma. But I imagine that learning the truth about the man she loved after his murder must have affected how she felt about him and his death.

[Kania Lofton]

I was devastated that he wasn't there, but now I'm like, okay, you know, he lied to me.

[Anasega Nicolazi]

As a survivor and a witness, Kania was able to give investigators a lot of the pieces they needed to identify the men who had killed Gary Williams, his dad, Roscoe, and tried to kill her. But it was Michelle that had to then reveal everything she knew about Gary to Kania, putting her near death into a whole new light.

[Michelle Amicone]

I felt bad every time myself or Detective Thompson had to sit her down again and go, okay, here's what we know now about Gary.

[Kania Lofton]

I was pissed, and I was brokenhearted, and so what do you do with that?

[Scott Weinberger]

In many ways, Kania had come to terms with her conflicted grief over losing the man she loved, a man whose criminal background had almost cost her her life.

[Kania Lofton]

I loved him. I did like, I loved him. I always wonder if Gary was still living. I'd probably have, like, five or six kids. We'd probably still be living in the house over there on Mansfield Lane. I think about him. I do. He was everything to me. He was. And literally, like, my world crumbled when he died.

[Anasega Nicolazi]

After everything she had been through to survive the attack, the definite truth, the thing she couldn't escape from about Gary hit like a Fresh trauma. And what made it worse, she didn't even have Gary around to confront about it.

[Michelle Amicone]

All the new information we'd lay on her and her family, you know, it was like, you know, a knife in the heart again, you know, over and over and over. And it was just, it was tough.

[Scott Weinberger]

So now that investigators had made this connection between Gary Williams and the string of bank robberies, they were confident that they knew the motive behind his murder.

[Anasega Nicolazi]

But they still needed a couple more important things. One, they needed some evidence that could back up this theory of the crime. And they needed to learn more about

[Michelle Amicone]

the three suspects in Moreno Valley. We didn't know of them. They were very well known in Long beach and LA County. They were both gang affiliated. Rob, he wasn't really the leader of a gang, but his crew that he hung out with, he most definitely was the boss.

[Scott Weinberger]

Which meant they really could be just about anywhere with plenty of places to hide out. But luckily there was the media, which was a huge help because it was not every day that the suburbs experienced a home invasion that resulted in a double homicide. So this was big news, this was

[Michelle Amicone]

a big story and it was in the newspapers, it was on tv. And when the suspects were identified, that also was in the newspapers and was on tv. I think, you know, if this had happened in New York, Los Angeles, some big metropolitan city, it may not have been big news, I don't know. But in Moreno Valley, a double homicide in a very suburban middle class neighborhood. Double homicide and a victim who got away.

[Anasega Nicolazi]

And thanks to their photos being broadcast across the local news, it was only a matter of time before they started to feel the heat.

[Scott Weinberger]

And Ronald Walker was the first suspect police placed into custody.

[Michelle Amicone]

Ronald Walker actually came to the station with literally an alibi in hand. He said that he heard that he was being look for, sought after for these homicides and attempted homicide that was on the news. So he came to the station with a Dodger ticket in hand and said it wasn't him. He was at a Dodger game and here's his ticket stub.

[Anasega Nicolazi]

Walker had also changed his appearance by shaving his head and getting rid of his trademark hairstyle.

[Scott Weinberger]

But he was not admitting his role in the, the double murder. But his surrender signaled to police that he was likely to cooperate.

[Michelle Amicone]

I remember I wanted to be the one who told her when I called her with Buchi, just utter relief, some tears and just, I could feel it over the phone, this huge relief and kind of release in Kanye, just a thankfulness, a gratitude and a, and a real Release of worry, anxiety, fright.

[Kania Lofton]

Every day I was so worried and I was losing hope. I didn't know anything about this procedure and how things would go, but I knew, like, he had just killed two people and tried to kill me. And, you know, every day that went without him being caught was frightening. So when she called me and told me, I remember, I cried, I cried and I was grateful. Still, I did not know what was ahead of me.

[Anasega Nicolazi]

Two weeks after the double murder of Gary Williams and his father Roscoe, the mastermind of the deadly home invasion, Robert Williams was still at large.

[Scott Weinberger]

Marino Valley police, with the help of the lapd, LA county and the California State Police, scoured Southern California and all of Williams's known haunts.

[Michelle Amicone]

We didn't know where he was, and Las Vegas PD got word that he was in Las Vegas. Las Vegas PD had gotten word from an informant about the hotel that he was at. They put together an apprehension task force, did some surveillance, and actually identified Robert Williams coming out of a hotel room disguised as a woman.

[Anasega Nicolazi]

William exited the hotel wearing a wig and wearing a woman's housecoat, but he did not get far.

[Scott Weinberger]

Williams was arrested and transported to the local Las Vegas police station. A loaded gun was later found in his hotel room.

[Michelle Amicone]

We find out he's been arrested. My partner and I are going to drive to Vegas to talk to him, and obviously we both believe, you know, he's not going to talk. He's on parole. You know, he knows the system. We get there and of course they pull him out, they bring him in, and he invokes. So that was the end of that.

[Anasega Nicolazi]

As for the third man involved, he remained and remains elusive and his whereabouts unknown.

[Michelle Amicone]

The third suspect was never identified, never taken into custody.

[Scott Weinberger]

On August 11, 1995, Robert Williams was arraigned along with Ronald Bucci Walker.

[Michelle Amicone]

They're both charged with two counts of murder, one, attempted count of murder, and Robert Williams is charged with sexual assault.

[Anasega Nicolazi]

Much of the case rested on Kanye and her firsthand account of the crimes, which was both a lot of pressure and a lot of responsibility for a survivor, especially one who was both close to the murder victims and was nearly a murder victim herself.

[Kania Lofton]

I had never been to court. I think maybe I dealt with like, a couple traffic tickets here and there. I had never dealt with anything like that. So I didn't know. I did not know what was ahead of me, the road.

[Anasega Nicolazi]

So really it comes down to too, like, was there any other evidence to corroborate her? And you didn't need it, but of course you would Want it. And it takes some of that pressure off and easier, hopefully, for a jury. And they did have this gun, which, while not used, Kanye said that she recognized as one that had been waved around. But they also had one of the men. Remember that robbery that happens just a few days before that double homicide, that they're supposed to get the money, or they did get the 56,000, which then never ended up back with Gary Williams? Well, one of those guys, a guy by the name of Rob Scott, he had been with Gary during that robbery. And later on, he comes in and he ultimately, when arrested, speaks to police and agrees that if there's a trial, that he will testify. And that at least is going to be some good corroboration about those initial contacts with Robert Williams. Remember when he's telling them that he wants a piece of their business, he wants them to go do this robbery. So if he can add that to what Kanye says, well, it's already going to be an even stronger case.

[Scott Weinberger]

And when you talk about the courtroom and also when you think about what Kanye's already survived, it's almost impossible to imagine the strength it takes Anasega, to walk into a courtroom and face it all again. And brave feels like sort of the right word for me right now, you know, and maybe even further than that. Obviously, you know, she'll depend and lean on Michelle and the prosecutor for the case. She's also going to be sitting just a few feet away from the person responsible for what she's been through and the brutal murders of Gary and Roscoe as well. Her voice matters, and her voice will be heard. And the first test of the case against Walker and Williams would be the preliminary trial.

[Michelle Amicone]

Both the district attorney, the prosecuting attorney, and then the defense attorney, they kind of present a mini case, and it's just to find out, is there enough evidence to take this to trial? That's the whole purpose of the preliminary hearing.

[Anasega Nicolazi]

It would be a pretty significant test of their star witness as well.

[Kania Lofton]

They were both sitting there at a table, and they both had orange on. When they brought me in there, I was afraid. Like, my legs were jumping, they were shaking. I couldn't even for nothing in me could hold my legs still when I got up there on the witness stand.

[Scott Weinberger]

Kania recounted the entire horrifying ordeal in court the whole time knowing that the two men at the defense table had once tried to end her life to keep her from identifying them. And here she was doing just that.

[Kania Lofton]

And I just remember at one point, I did stare at them and the point where I remember staring at them is when I told the part of how I knew they were related. And I said, Buchi told me. Buchi said that they're cousins. Buci promised me that he wasn't gonna kill me. He even gave me a kiss and hugged me. And he said, I promise I'm not gonna kill you. And I remember at that point staring at both of them. And Bucci would not look at me. Rob is a very bold person, and he. It was like a stare down.

[Anasega Nicolazi]

At the end of the hearing, the judge ruled that with Kania's testimony, there was enough evidence to proceed to trial. The question did remain, however, if prosecutors had enough to ultimately secure a conviction.

[Scott Weinberger]

Kania was a firsthand witness to the instructions to kill Roscoe, to, quote, do the old man. She also watched with her own eyes as his and Gary's heads were covered by plastic bags prior to their throats being cut.

[Anasega Nicolazi]

She could also describe in terrible detail the murder weapon, because it was that very same knife that at least at some point had been held against her neck and used to cut her own throat.

[Scott Weinberger]

So even without the murder weapon or other physical evidence to corroborate her story, prosecutors were hopefully that her testimony would be enough to convict on the murder charges.

[Anasega Nicolazi]

But again, remember, to identity, they would potentially have this cooperator. But now moving to the actual incident itself, but there was also this question about how they would be able to hopefully prove the sexual assault charge.

[Michelle Amicone]

So during the sexual assault exam, the rape kit Connie had mentioned, like, they didn't find any evidence and they didn't find any physical evidence. So, yes, it had been two days, three days, and there was no semen, there were no pubic hairs, there was no DNA that we could point at and say, yes, Robert Williams sexually assaulted Kania, but there was physical evidence that some type of sexual assault had occurred, some abrasions, some scrapes.

[Scott Weinberger]

Kania could describe being threatened repeatedly by Williams and that he was going to assault her, how he had forced her to undress.

[Anasega Nicolazi]

She was also conscious. And sorry to be a bit direct and graphic here, but when Williams had digitally penetrated her, but she admitted that after that she had been put into the chokehold, she had lost consciousness, so she couldn't exactly account for that time between when she had lost consciousness and when she woke up. Now, again, she was still undressed from the waist down, and there was a knife still being held against her neck when she woke up.

[Scott Weinberger]

And despite the sexual assault kit not being done, immediately after Kania arrived at the hospital, she did have internal trauma indicative of an assault.

[Michelle Amicone]

Kania herself could describe that. Yes, you know, there was a soreness, there was a burning when she urinated. That all kind of got put together. And we could say, you know, yes, she may not remember it, but she remembers exactly what he was saying and being dragged into the bathroom. And then afterwards, the condition that she was in. He was charged with more than one count of sexual assault.

[Anasega Nicolazi]

Williams and Walker were at first going to be tried together, but their trials ultimately were severed, which was just the first of numerous delays.

[Michelle Amicone]

Robert Williams, I believe, changed defense counsel at least 10 times, if not a dozen. Getting his public defenders fired, you know, and then they'd assign someone else. And it just went on and on, hearing after hearing for seven years total between the two trials.

[Scott Weinberger]

When both men's trial finally did begin, Kanye was asked when once again, to walk into the courtroom and walk the jury through every detail of the worst day of her life.

[Anasega Nicolazi]

Only this time, years had passed. Years that she had spent a good portion of trying to forget the horror of that night.

[Kania Lofton]

I'm scared. I'm terrified. You know, I have two kids now. Buchi's family was there. I want to say his mom and the mom's sister. And they were just very intimidating. Just a whole different set of. Different type of fear set in wondering, well, you know, what do they mean they got this? Will the jury believe me?

[Scott Weinberger]

Of course, prosecutors always want a strong witness, but the fact is that we're all human. Our memories can be faulty, especially after so much time has passed.

[Anasega Nicolazi]

And also, we have to take into account that this witness would be reliving a traumatic experience, because it has been shown that trauma can have unforeseen effects on a person's memory. For some part of a person's memory can actually shut down kind of as a survival mechanism so we don't have to relive such incredible pain every day of our lives.

[Scott Weinberger]

And that puts prosecutors in a tough spot because they have to try to elicit as much information as they can without re victimizing the survivor.

[Anasega Nicolazi]

And in this case, there was also another factor at play. For many years, Kania herself had struggled with feelings of shame and self blame that she should have known better than to be involved with Gary, and that her willful ignorance had put her at risk, in essence partially blaming herself. But as we all know, whether she should, should have or should not have been with Gary, what happened to her was not her fault in any way.

[Scott Weinberger]

In the end, her testimony proved both emotional and incredibly effective.

[Anasega Nicolazi]

As for Walker's alibi that he was at a Dodger game on the day of the murder. It was Kania herself that was the most convincing in showing that his alibi was a lie.

[Kania Lofton]

It was me. I said, he was there. It was me.

[Michelle Amicone]

She was so positive in her identification and never, ever wavered.

[Scott Weinberger]

Ultimately, Williams and Walker were convicted of two counts of first degree murder, one count of attempted murder, and one count of sexual penetration with a foreign object.

[Michelle Amicone]

Walker, life without parole.

[Kania Lofton]

And then Williams was death penalty.

[Anasega Nicolazi]

The convictions and sentencing represented justice for both Gary Williams and his father, Roscoe Williams. And while some people express feelings that Gary Williams lived a life that put himself at risk and that because of that, he perhaps didn't deserve equal justice, well, Kanye does not agree.

[Kania Lofton]

If he would have been caught and gone to trial for the bank robberies, then that is something else. But he was a victim. Maybe not innocent in everything that he did, but he was a victim. His father was an innocent victim.

[Anasega Nicolazi]

And the trial itself proved cathartic for Kania, too. It gave her some peace.

[Kania Lofton]

Even after both trials. I remember sitting by myself and thinking, I had that moment, and I looked up and I said, I did it. I did it. At that moment, I wanted him and his father to rest. Well, I said, it's done. We got him.

[Scott Weinberger]

Williams appealed his conviction all the way to the California Supreme Court, but the high court affirmed both the judgment and the death sentence.

[Anasega Nicolazi]

Since his conviction, the death penalty in California has been abolished, and Williams has been moved from San Quentin to a lower security prison in Chino, a move that has raised a few eyebrows. But his future is no less certain.

[Michelle Amicone]

After Kanye told me, you know, how could they move him to Chino? I went in and checked, and he's still listed as death sentence. His sentence has not been commuted.

[Scott Weinberger]

I think it goes without saying that a near death experience has the power to change you and your relationships with just about everyone you know and love. And for Kanye, it was no different.

[Kania Lofton]

After the attack, I was really in touch with the relationship that I have with my sisters, my parents. I mean, it changed the dynamics. Like, it was a lot of, I love you. I love you, too.

[Anasega Nicolazi]

But she also knows that the emotional trauma she experienced requires a lot of time to heal.

[Kania Lofton]

People always say, oh, you know, the trial's over. You could put this behind you, something of this magnitude. I don't think I've ever put it behind me. I do not let it be an obstacle in front of me. But I could look to the right or I could look to the left. And I know that it's there. That is something that is just right there. And it's like that reminder, you know, that life throws those curveballs at you. That's, you know, the first thing. And it's also a reminder of how tough I know I am now. I mean, I wake up and I know what I've been through. I go to sleep and I know how grateful I am. It's right there by me, always and forever.

[Michelle Amicone]

I was 29 years on the sheriff's department. You know, you see all kinds of heroic things and courageous things amongst your peers. I have never met anyone that showed such courage and such bravery, courage, intelligence. There were so many things present from the time she got up off that floor to when she was contacted by the first deputy sheriff. So many things that she did. I don't know anybody in my life that would have that presence of mind and that intelligence and all the steps she had to take to get away. The whole story is mind boggling to begin with. And that's just the story. And then you meet this person who is nothing but positivity and she just exudes positivity and love and warmth and kindness. After all, she spends her Kanye embraced what happened to her and took it and made herself even stronger than she already was. She's an amazing human being. An amazing human being.

[Kania Lofton]

I look at it like this. If I could tell my story and I can reach one young girl that has her head in the sand, that thinks that she's everything is just all great and she's in love, but there's that mysterious behind it. If I could reach one girl, girl, and she listen and, you know, she get pulls out, finds out, pulls out and goes the other way, then my job is done. You know, staying quiet is not going to help someone else. Speaking about what I went through and how I am still going through it and triumphing through it, that's what it's all about, reaching, reaching my younger self that I see in other women. I really want to do that today.

[Scott Weinberger]

Kania is thriving. She has two adult sons and has worked as a respiratory therapist for the past 19 years.

[Kania Lofton]

Ironically enough, I work trauma, a lot of trauma, trauma ICU. I worked level one ER at LA County USC Medical center for 19 years after that. And I treat my patients, the patients that are able to get to a point where even if they come into the ER and they're super scared and life threatening injuries, you know, I say, you know, this is probably one of the worst days of your life, you know, but, you know, I want you to just, you know, do everything we tell you to do and, you know, just stay with us. And today marks the day of, you know, your healing.

[Anasega Nicolazi]

And if you're wondering, Kania still does bear a scar from her horrific injury. A visible reminder every day of what she suffered and what she survived.

[Kania Lofton]

I had a very good trauma surgeon that put me back together like I was Humpty Dumpty. He really did. And when people do see the scar on my neck, they compliment the way he stitched me up.

[Michelle Amicone]

She wears it as a badge of honor and courage.

[Anasega Nicolazi]

As I told Kanya, in some ways, we all have our scars, which for most of us, stay hidden. She's just showing hers, and for that, she's stronger.

[Kania Lofton]

The sun always shines. Even on our most cloudiest day, the sun is up there. We just can't see it.

[Scott Weinberger]

What really stays with me in this case is the relationship between Michelle and Kania. The way that trust was built, the way it held, and how meaningful that bond became. When a detective truly shows up for a survivor, when that connection is. Is real, it changes everything. It changes what healing could look like. It changes what justice feels like. And for Anna, Seeking, I reminds us why relationships matter. Just as evidence, starting this new chapter of this show with a case like this felt important. It was the kind of story that doesn't fade because it shows what's possible. When compassion and commitment meet tragedy. That's something we'll never forget.

[Anasega Nicolazi]

It's getting to know and speak with people like Kania and Michelle that have at least partially kept me in this field, whether as a prosecutor now talking through these cases on a podcast or tv. It is inspiring, even though we are talking about very dark things. Michelle Amicone represents the type of detective anyone in Kanye shoes or another victim or survivor would want. And the fact that they're still in touch, as Scott said To this day, 30 years later, it really speaks volumes on its own. And Kania, a true survivor, she has survived the unthinkable, bore witness to incredible brutality, yet she has survived and thrived. It wasn't easy, and it took her many years and lots of pain and mental suffering along the way. But she reached the brightness on the other side of that pain, and here she is, willing to relive it all again. Remember, she has never spoken publicly about this case, and she was willing to do that with us, hoping it might help even one person to spare them some of what she has been through. And that says true hero. To me. This was the perfect story to begin this next chapter in our podcasting careers. It represents all we want to highlight. First, the victims of homicide Gary Williams, Roscoe Williams. They should not be forgotten. Next, the survivors and those impacted, people like Kania. And lastly, all the work done on their behalf by prosecutors and law enforcement people like Michelle Amicone and all her colleagues, that first officer that stayed with Kania, all that worked on this case. And it is you, the listeners that give these important stories a platform. So help us spread the word that Scott and I are back to talk through these cases in the way that we believe they should be told. Tune in next week for another new episode of Homicide 360.

[Scott Weinberger]

Homicide 360 is created and produced by Forsetti Media and Weinberger Media.

[Anasega Nicolazi]

Supervising producer is Walker Lamond. Managing editor is Kate Mack. Sabrina Sarai is production manager. Edited by Ali Sierra and Phil Jean Grande. Original theme music by Trey Anderson. This episode was researched by DJ Ryder.