The Trade (Kirby Carpenter)

Summary

Homicide 360 – "The Trade (Kirby Carpenter)"

Podcast Hosts: Anna-Sigga Nicolazzi & Scott Weinberger
Release Date: July 28, 2026
Topic: The murder of Kirby Carpenter in Dry Creek, Mississippi—an investigation into family, greed, and a tangled web of secrets.

---

Episode Overview

This episode delves deep into the homicide of Kirby Carpenter, a self-made businessman and ex-Marine, found murdered outside his rural Mississippi home. Hosts Anna-Sigga Nicolazzi and Scott Weinberger, alongside local prosecutors and investigators, unravel the evidence and family tensions behind the shocking crime. The case ultimately exposes how greed and betrayal can destroy families, while highlighting the painstaking work authorities dedicate to justice—often with only circumstantial evidence to build their case.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Setting the Scene: Small Town, Big Mystery

• Dry Creek, Mississippi is characterized as a place with an "outlaw type personality," historically rooted in rebelliousness and self-reliance.
• Prosecutors Ben Creakmore and Thad Mueller, long-time trial partners, narrate local context, emphasizing the personal nature of law enforcement in small towns.

  “Small town drama can lead to some big time homicide cases.” – Anna-Sigga Nicolazzi (01:06)

Victim Profile: Kirby Carpenter

• Kirby is described as a charismatic, energetic, and successful entrepreneur who ran an antique/coin shop in Ripley. Known for always having a “well-worn leather bag” stuffed with cash and valuables (05:49), he’s both admired and envied in the community.
• He lived with his partner, Caitlin Spence, who’d just had his baby daughter Enola, and Caitlin's parents recently moved in to help with the child.

The Discovery & Initial Investigation

• Caitlin discovers Kirby’s body under a tarp near their property after he was missing for days (09:16).

  “She couldn't see his body, but you could see his boots that were left uncovered from the tarp…” – Ben Creakmore (09:32)

• Kirby died from a close-range shotgun blast (11:13), with clear signs of the body being staged—dragged and somewhat concealed.
• Importantly, robbery seems unlikely: $2,800 cash remains in Kirby’s pocket (15:01):

  “Typical robbery, that $2,800 would be gone... That kind of told us it was personal.” – Ben Creakmore (15:01)

Forensics and Scene Analysis

• Crime scene staging (body covered, car locked with groceries inside) suggests the killer was familiar with Kirby’s routines and property.
• The absence of shotgun shells, murder weapon, and removal of Kirby’s home surveillance system point to premeditation and insider knowledge.

The Family Dynamic & Motive

• Tensions mount within the household, especially regarding Caitlin’s parents, Jeff and Karen Spence.

• Thanksgiving 2022 serves as the uneasy last family gathering, after which the Spences return to Virginia.

• Following the murder, suspicious behavior emerges: Kaitlin's parents are accused of removing Kirby's valuables and changing safe codes, further fueling theories of greed as motive.

• Spences claim ownership of removed items, escalating animosity and casting suspicion.

  “Jeff Spence claimed that the coins belonged to him. But nevertheless, taking Kirby's valuables out of his house before there had even been a funeral, not a good look.” – Anna-Sigga Nicolasi (29:05)

The Investigation Unfolds: Evidence and Witnesses

• Key timeline clue:
  A neighbor reports hearing a shotgun blast at 7:00 pm on the night of Kirby’s disappearance (19:18), confirming time of death but little else.

• Caitlin’s Statements:
  Caitlin, initially cooperative, becomes less forthcoming after lawyering up—raising detectives' eyebrows but also reflecting caution as a potential suspect's partner.

• She introduces claims of Kirby’s abusive behavior—threaded as both a possible motive and future defense strategy.

  “It just seemed a little early to be talking about, hey, it could have been somebody else ... oh, by the way, Kirby has been known to be abusive.” – Thad Mueller (26:19)

• Inheritance and Estate:
  Investigation reveals complex motives around inheritance, as Kirby and Caitlin were not married and his children are minors. Control of the estate potentially motivates Jeff Spence.

• Circumstantial Evidence:
  Changes in safe codes, valuables going missing, and family disputes build a picture, but hard evidence is elusive (32:15).

A Break in the Case: The Pennsylvania Letter & Pattern of Behavior

• Letter arrives from Giovanni Aguayo (Caitlin’s brother-in-law), detailing threatening, parasitic behavior by Jeff Spence in previous family relationships (34:11).
• New motive emerges: Spence’s history of latching onto relatives for financial gain, threats, and instability.
• Investigators retrace Jeff Spence’s activities, bank records, and car movements, finding more circumstantial support but still no direct physical evidence.

Key Confessions & Arrests

• David Barnes (Kirby’s troubled friend) provides pivotal testimony:

  “He said that Caitlin said things got out of hand and dad killed Kirby. Then he testified that Jeff overheard this and came over and said, and if you tell anybody, you'll be next.” – Ben Creakmore (39:12)

• Barnes admits this doesn’t prove premeditation but implicates the Spence family.
• Coordinated arrests of Jeff, Karen, and Caitlin Spence across states. Search yields a loaded shotgun, cash, and evidence of Kirby’s business dealings in Spence’s possession.

The Prosecution Strategy

• Motivation is greed:

  "I always thought Kirby was killed for greed, yes. But I think it was two phases... what he could grab that night, and then what he could grab when he came back..." – Ben Creakmore (43:36)

• Proving intent:
  The prosecution works to dispel alternative theories and focuses on evidence tying Jeff Spence to both the immediate crime and the wider plot (49:38).

The Role of Caitlin and Plea Deals

• Caitlin’s involvement remains murky: she didn’t pull the trigger (security footage at Walmart confirms alibi during murder) but helped cover up and ultimately testifies to her father’s confession and instructions the night of the murder (47:38).

  “His statement to her was, you know, yeah, I did it. Don't ask any more questions. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth.” – Thad Mueller, quoting Caitlin (48:15)

• Both Caitlin and Karen Spence plead guilty as accessories after the fact; Jeff Spence chooses to stand trial.

Courtroom Drama and Key Testimonies

• First trial ends in a mistrial—the jury is deadlocked, much to the family’s devastation.

• Second trial is bolstered by:

  • License plate reader evidence placing Spence en route to Mississippi on the day of the murder (52:17).
  • Testimony of Tracy Delp, who explains that Spence had plotted the killing for months and even tried to recruit him for the job. Delp relays a crucial “boots left uncovered” detail only the killer would know (53:33).

  “He said, Tracy said. [Jeff] told me he left the boots uncovered so they could discover the body.” – Ben Creakmore (53:33)

• Delp’s testimony and the new evidence prove decisive; the jury in the second trial takes only two hours to convict Jeff Spence of murder (54:30).

---

Notable Quotes & Moments

• “It takes a family willing to sit through the worst parts of their own loss and investigators who keep pulling at every loose thread until the truth finally starts to show itself.” – Scott Weinberger (55:45)
• “Kirby's life was worth more than money, coins, property, or any plan built around stealing from him. And in the end, that web didn't protect his killer. It helped expose him.” – Scott Weinberger (56:39)
• “His father in law saw a selfish opportunity and it came out at the expense of Kirby's life. Kirby's daughter lost her father to murder and has to live forever with the knowledge that her mom played a role, as did her grandmother. And of course, it was her grandfather who planned it and who pulled the trigger.” – Anna-Sigga Nicolazzi (56:39)

---

Important Timestamps

• 03:04 – The distinct outlaw personality of Dry Creek
• 05:49 – Kirby’s habit of carrying valuables
• 09:32 – Discovery of the body under a tarp (“could see his boots”)
• 11:13 – Confirmation of death by shotgun, body staged
• 15:01 – $2,800 in pocket suggesting not a robbery
• 19:18 – Neighbor hears 7:00 pm gunshot, narrows time of death
• 29:05 – Spences caught removing valuables
• 34:11 – Letter from brother-in-law exposes Jeff Spence’s prior questionable behavior
• 39:12 – David Barnes relays Caitlin’s “dad killed Kirby” confession
• 43:36 – Prosecutor’s take: murder for greed in two phases
• 47:38 – Caitlin’s testimony about her father's instructions and confession
• 52:17 – License plate reader proves Spence’s travel to Mississippi on day of murder
• 53:33 – Tracy Delp’s testimony: “left the boots uncovered”
• 54:30 – Second trial: quick jury conviction

---

Conclusion & Legacy

• Jeff Spence is convicted of murder and sentenced to life in prison. Caitlin and Karen Spence each serve lesser sentences for their roles.
• The case highlights the challenges—and importance—of building a homicide case on circumstantial evidence; it’s the steadfastness of family and law enforcement that ultimately brings justice.
• The episode closes by reflecting on the lasting harm caused to Kirby’s surviving children and the broader impacts of such crimes on families and community.

---

Tone & Delivery

As with all Homicide 360 episodes, the tone combines professional detachment with profound empathy for the victim and family. The hosts, drawing on their legal and investigative backgrounds, balance storytelling, analysis, and real-world procedural insight—making the episode both gripping and deeply informative.

Transcript

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game? Well, with the name your price tool from Progressive, you can find options that fit your budget and potentially lower your bills. Try [e-mail] Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates Price and coverage match limited by state law. Not available in all states.

[Ben Creakmore]

So you couldn't see his body, but you could see his boots.

[Thad Mueller]

Around 7 o', clock, I heard a gunshot. Who changed the code for the access to the safes? It was just a head scratcher.

[Scott Weinberger]

I'm Scott Weinberger, investigative journalist and former deputy sheriff.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

I'm Anna Sega Nicolasi, former New York

[Scott Weinberger]

City Homicide prosecutor, And this is Homicide360.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

If there's one thing we've learned over the years is that small town drama can lead to some big time homicide cases.

[Scott Weinberger]

And what local investigators may lack in high tech forensics or big city resources, they often make up for with local gossip, colorful witnesses and patients. Knowing that in small towns, the truth never stays buried forever.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

For the last 22 years, Ben Creakmore has been the district attorney in the Third Judicial Circuit of Mississippi, which stretches across a largely rural portion of seven of its most northern counties.

[Thad Mueller]

Marshall, Benton, Tippa, Lafayette, Chickasaw, Calhoun, Benton. Is that all seven?

[Ben Creakmore]

Sounds like it.

[Thad Mueller]

And have not had an opponent since that time.

[Scott Weinberger]

Thad Mueller had his own civil law practice before he decided to join Ben in the prosecutor's office where he has served as an ADA for the last decade. For this episode, I sat down with both of them at one time. So you'll hear them finish each other's sentences the way trial partners do. After years in the courtroom together, Ben

[Ben Creakmore]

and I remained close friends for a long time. And I was just ready for a change. I talked to some people that had been prosecutors and we try so many more cases than you do in civil practice. And I really enjoy the courtroom work, especially when Ben and I try them together. It's a lot of fun.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

And when a prosecutor says fun, that usually means challenging. And back in 2023, this legal duo faced not one, but two such challenging trials, both with the goal of achieving justice for the victim of a horrific homicide. One that shocked the tiny town of Dry Creek. Mississipp.

[Scott Weinberger]

Dry Creek lies just outside Boonville, up the northern hills of the state, not far from the Tennessee border. It's a small place with an outsized

[Thad Mueller]

reputation, and it has, you know, historically an outlaw type personality to it. You know, there are areas, you know, in recent memory, like when I was in high school, that you did not want to wander into mistakenly. And I think that goes back to the revenuers and moonshine and that kind of thing.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

In other words, rebels, raconteurs and folks happy to blaze their own trail. People like Kirby Carpenter, who in 2022 was a 38 year old independent businessman with the emphasis on independent.

[Scott Weinberger]

Kirby was an ex marine and entrepreneur who specialized in collecting and selling rare coins, precious metals. Just about anything this born salesman could turn for a profit.

[Thad Mueller]

Kirby Carpenter was known to us. He had a storefront downtown Ripley that is right across the street from the courthouse. In that shop he sold coins and silverware. Anything of value, like estate sale items is what I would call it antique roadshow storefront guitars. And he had guitars and he had amplifiers and I've been playing guitar since I was 15. So at whenever we'd be trying a case in Ripley, when we're waiting on the jury, I would go over if he was there and visit with Kirby and he would tell me about the guitars that he had and where he got them. And as his business and various interests diversified, he spent less and less time there. But over the years we became, I wouldn't say friends, but you know, more than just acquaintances on the street.

[Ben Creakmore]

Had a lot of irons in the fire and he was, you know, self made man.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

Kirby's success, his magnetic personality and his movie star good looks made him a popular figure around town who was always ready to swap stories or anything else you might have on you.

[Thad Mueller]

Tell that he was very smart, well put together, you know, he didn't wear a suit, but he always looked like he was, you know, ready to do business, professional. He had a lot of energy and he had a great personality. He met anybody, if he was talking to, you know, one of our judges, he'd be talking to them in the same way he would talk to somebody that had just walked off the street that he didn't even know and you know, was a heck of a salesman.

[Scott Weinberger]

Another oddity of Kirby's, his silver and coin trading business meant that he almost always could be seen carrying around a large amount of cash which he held in a well worn leather bag.

[Thad Mueller]

Whenever I saw him, he had that handbag with him. He never showed me what was in it. You know, it doesn't take much to figure out that someone in that line of business is going to be carrying valuables in it. He was known to carry that money around and he was known to, if he found something interesting, a coin or artifact that he had bought that he wanted to show people what it was and tell them about it. I don't think it was as much of, hey, I want to become as rich as I possibly can. As he was interested in the story behind the items that he was trading.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

Kirby lived outside town with his longtime girlfriend, Kaitlin Spence. He had a child from a previous marriage. And In July of 2022, he and Kaitlin had just welcomed a new baby girl named Enola.

[Scott Weinberger]

Kaitlin ran a tractor supply company in Boonville. And with Kirby's myriad of business ventures, the arrival of the new baby meant big changes. And so, like many new parents do, they invited some reinforcements to join them at the little house in Dry Creek.

[Ben Creakmore]

So at the time at that house, it was Enola, the baby, Kirby and Caitlin. Now, around the time that Enola was born, Jeff and Karen Spence had moved down from Virginia to help with the baby.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

Grandparents can be a blessing in laws. Sometimes not so much. And By November of 2022, the mood inside the house had begun to shift as tensions with Caitlin's parents began to rise.

[Scott Weinberger]

Nonetheless, Kirby and Caitlin found themselves hosting their whole combined family for Thanksgiving dinner.

[Ben Creakmore]

At Thanksgiving, I believe was Maddie Jane, Kirby's mom. Kirby's two sisters, Wendy and Casey Barnes. There were some close friends, maybe some, he has some brothers too that were there. They spend Thanksgiving together.

[Thad Mueller]

And this was sort of Jeff and Karen's idea to bring to have this family Thanksgiving gathering. And Jeff and Karen insisted on Caitlin bringing out their family china to eat Thanksgiving.

[Ben Creakmore]

They spend Thanksgiving together. You get up to the 29th of November and Karen and Jeff are going to go back to Saltville, Virginia, where they were living at the time on Roan Lane.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

The following morning, November 30, Kaitlin left home early, taking their infant daughter, which was part of their daily routine. Kirby remained behind at the home.

[Scott Weinberger]

Later, Kirby was spotted in town running his typical errands and tending to business before returning back home in the early evening around 6 o'.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

Clock. But when Kaitlin returned home that night, Kirby was nowhere to be found, which, according to Kaitlin, was actually not that out of the ordinary. But when he didn't show up the following day, then she started to worry.

[Scott Weinberger]

So the questions could he have been in a car accident or been injured somewhere around the property? None of his family or friends seemed to know where he was, so Caitlin went looking.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

On the morning of December 2nd, just a couple days later, Caitlin Kaylin was on the phone with Kirby's mom as she walked the perimeter of the property. It was then that she Made the discovery. Kirby's body on the ground lying partially hidden under a tarp.

[Ben Creakmore]

She couldn't see his body, but you could see his boots that were left uncovered from the tarp that had covered the body. And it was held in place by empty truck tool bed.

[Scott Weinberger]

Caitlin immediately hung up with Kirby's mom and dialed 911.

[Thad Mueller]

I'm getting 911.

[Ben Creakmore]

Oh, my God.

[Scott Weinberger]

It's Karby.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

Remember, this is a small town with limited resources and is often the case. First responders and law enforcement often have to wear multiple hats, and that was the case here.

[Ben Creakmore]

The sheriff's departments around here will have resource officers. I'm sure it's the same way. A lot of places that will go to the schools and be, you know, security for the kids. And Pine Grove School was right down the road from Kirby's house, and so he's also a deputy sheriff, so he was the first person on scene.

[Scott Weinberger]

Caitlin led the deputy to where she had found Kirby's body. The deputy was able to confirm that Kirby had likely died from what appeared to be severe injuries to his neck and chest.

[Ben Creakmore]

Sheriff arrives. Chris McAllister, who's the lead investigator for the sheriff's department. Arrives Scott Watson, who's with the Ripley Police department, who's also the deputy coroner. It's another thing about small communities. Scott is the deputy coroner and also assistant police chief. Chris McAllister is the chief deputy and also the head coroner.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

Almost immediately, law enforcement was able to draw some conclusions from Kirby's injuries and the location of his body.

[Ben Creakmore]

At that point, you have a body, you know, it was easy to determine he'd been killed with a shotgun based on the wounds, most likely with buckshot. Obviously, the body had been drugged from the garage to the side of the house and had remained there for a couple days.

[Scott Weinberger]

An autopsy would later confirm that Kirby had been struck with a single shotgun blast fired from a very close range that entered his neck and right shoulder. The coroner also determined that he had been likely killed. And at least 48 hours before his body was even discovered, news of the

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

murder was relayed to Ben in the DA's office, bringing with it a range of rather strong feelings, both professional and personal.

[Thad Mueller]

Number one, shocked that someone that we all kind of knew had been violently killed. You know, just that personal element. But then the things that I was really interested in, based on what they reported, was that his body, they thought that he was killed in the carport, that his body appeared to have been drugged 10ft around an old classic vehicle that was parked and then his body was covered with a curtain. And then an empty toolbox that fits in the back of a truck was placed on top of him.

[Scott Weinberger]

So let's break this down for a moment. He was likely killed in the carport, which was a kind of an open air garage, then dragged out of sight and at least partially covered with a curtain or a tarp, which obviously tells investigators that there was some effort to hide the body.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

And that takes time. Right. So you can conclude that Kirby's killer did not just immediately leave the scene, and that right there already told the lead investigator from the Sheriff's department, Chris McAllister, a little something about the killer's

[Thad Mueller]

state of mind when he's telling me about it. You can already begin to make some conclusions about what's going on while keeping an open mind at the same time.

[Scott Weinberger]

So one conclusion was that the killer did not seem to be in a hurry, and maybe because the location was pretty remote and it was unlikely to be any witnesses. But the condition of the scene also led investigators to believe that the person responsible likely had some type of knowledge with the property and. And its layout.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

Kirby's home was not a house that a stranger would likely just stumble on, which meant it was likely targeted.

[Thad Mueller]

The other thing that was of interest was the fact that his truck was locked and had groceries in it that included lamb chops that, you know, he didn't make it into the house, but yet his keys had been taken out in the vehicle, locked. That was interesting to me.

[Scott Weinberger]

And this is another one of those details that can speak volumes. The groceries in the car implies Kirby had maybe just gotten home and the killer was already there, armed and lying in wait.

[Ben Creakmore]

That's what it would appear to me, because Ben and I've talked about this a million times. I mean, you pull up to your house, first thing you're going to do is get your groceries out and walk to the door. So he obviously he saw something.

[Thad Mueller]

And then whoever killed him shot him with a shotgun, shortly thereafter, began to stage the crime scene in some manner.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

And then there was that little detail of the locked car. Why would Kirby have locked the truck behind him before unloading his groceries?

[Thad Mueller]

I think it was pretty early on. They believed that this wasn't a random robbery. Body is covered. Staging of the body after you shoot somebody just to take their money back, that just didn't add up.

[Ben Creakmore]

He had $2,800 in his pocket. Typical robbery, that $2,800 would be gone, along with any other cash he had. That kind of told us that it was personal.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

According to Kaitlyn's statement to police at the scene, she'd never noticed the groceries in the car. But she could confirm that the house was locked when she had come home with enola on the 30th, which seemed to confirm that Kirby had never made it into the house.

[Scott Weinberger]

But that didn't mean that there wasn't valuable potential evidence inside.

[Thad Mueller]

She had to unlock the door to go in, and the house is dark. So when investigators go inside to see if there's anything of evidentiary value inside, they find that the surveillance system, the controller part of it, is missing, which would have been highly unusual. And unlike Kirby or someone in his line of work that would have safes in his house not to have the security system operating.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

So the home security system was disabled, reinforcing the likelihood that the killer had knowledge of the home as well as Kirby's daily routine.

[Ben Creakmore]

I don't think anybody else had access to the house, had a key to the house. There was a spare key that Caitlin testified was available to Jeff and Karen Spence to enter the house. So all four adults could enter the house.

[Thad Mueller]

Jeff and Karen would have been aware where they kept the key outside to gain access to the house.

[Scott Weinberger]

It was becoming increasingly clear that this was not a random snatch and grab robbery. This was a targeted killing. What the motive was remained a mystery.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

Kirby had plenty of friends, but did he have any enemies? Maybe one of his many business deals had recently gone south. Maybe he owed someone money.

[Scott Weinberger]

Or maybe Kirby had been the target of a much longer con. Only the evidence would reveal the truth.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

This episode is brought to you by Starbucks.

[Thad Mueller]

That is fire.

[Scott Weinberger]

Whoa, that's good.

[Ben Creakmore]

This might be the drink of the summer.

[Scott Weinberger]

Okay, I like this one too.

[Thad Mueller]

I'm rocking with it.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

Okay, try it for yourself. Starbucks Refreshers concentrates are coming home. Find them in the coffee aisle and make it yours. 36 year old Kirby Carpenter was found shot to death outside his home in rural North Mississippi. Initial evidence, including the discovery of almost $3,000 in his pocket, seemed to rule out robbery as a motive, or at least rule it out as a completed crime.

[Scott Weinberger]

Which it meant it was critical to interview everyone close to Kirby to find out if they knew of anyone who would have any reason to hurt him or any secrets that may have contributed to his murder.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

As in any murder investigation, they also needed to make sure everyone in his circle was accounted for during the hours they believed Kirby had been killed, which they still hadn't pinned down.

[Scott Weinberger]

Caitlyn, who had found Kirby's body and called 911, gave police a timeline of her movements over the previous 48 hours, starting from the last time she saw him alive. She also told investigators that her parents, Jeff and Karen Spence, who had been staying at the house for the past couple of weeks, had left Mississippi the day before and returned back to Virginia.

[Ben Creakmore]

They left about 1 or 2 in the afternoon on November 29th. And keep in mind with the time change, it's about a nine hour drive to, to Saltville from that area of Tippett County.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

Kirby's mom and siblings were also accounted for. So among those people that were closest to Kirby and the last to see him alive, there were no potential suspects that stood out.

[Scott Weinberger]

What would help would be a way to narrow down the time of death and perhaps a witness. And lo and behold, a couple of days after the murder, investigators got both from a neighbor named Ben.

[Thad Mueller]

Ben did call in a day later or a few days later and said, hey, I just want to report that on the 30th, around 7 o', clock, I heard a gunshot.

[Ben Creakmore]

Ben basically says he was living with his mother at the time, who was Kirby's neighbor. Now, neighbors out there is not like, you know, door to door neighbors. This is probably half a mile down the road. But Ben was a hunter, is a hunter, knows the difference in a shotgun blast and a rifle. He said that he heard a shotgun blast at 7 o' clock on the

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

30th, a time that lined up perfectly with the coroner's estimated time of death.

[Scott Weinberger]

But like Thad said, the sound of gunshots was not unusual in this part of rural Mississippi. So how did the witness clock that this was something unusual or even worth remembering?

[Ben Creakmore]

He said, because I was with my mother that night, you know, on the second when the body was discovered, I immediately thought, well, that's strange. I heard a shotgun blast that night. And furthermore, you mentioned this, it's not unusual for guns to be going off. It wasn't unusual, but he said that when Kirby was ever going to shoot his guns, whether it coyotes or whatnot, that he would call Ben's mom and say, hey, look, I just want to let you know, going to be shooting tonight, so don't worry about anything.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

But Kirby had given no such warning. It was likely that the witness had heard the single gunshot blast that had killed Kirby, helping them start to pinpoint the time of his murder.

[Scott Weinberger]

But unfortunately, there wasn't much physical evidence at the crime scene to further fill out the story.

[Ben Creakmore]

No shotgun shells, no shotgun, no bag of money that Kirby always carried, nothing. There appeared to be an area in the garage that had been wiped up. But we didn't get any hits on blood on that. So now there was no physical evidence.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

It was clear to investigators that the delay in discovering Kirby's body also complicated the assessment of the crime scene.

[Thad Mueller]

And the garage was filled with junk and tools and work equipment, and it had a trash can that looked like had been knocked over. Of course, law enforcement didn't come immediately after Kirby was killed. You know, his body wasn't discovered until the 2nd, and he was killed on the 30th. So was the turned over garbage can with the garbage thrown over the floor? Was that part of a struggle or was it, did it happen later on?

[Scott Weinberger]

According to her unanswered text to Kirby, Caitlin thought the mess had been the work of Kirby's dog. But that theory raised some questions as well.

[Ben Creakmore]

The dog was Kirby's, so it was familiar with Kirby. And after Kirby goes dark after 6:37pm she's texting Kirby about how big a mess the dog has made in the garage. Well, you know, we're talking about it going, you know, wonder why that dog didn't go crazy with the body right there. It didn't make any sense.

[Thad Mueller]

And why didn't the dog find Kirby? Yeah, it was just a head scratcher on that situation.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

And so it started to become clear that the key to understanding what happened was Kaitlin herself. So her statement to police and subsequent interviews were critical to the investigation.

[Thad Mueller]

In that initial interview with Kami was on December 2, just a few hours after the 911 call in the patrol truck.

[Scott Weinberger]

Caitlyn was understandably upset in the 911 call, but by the time she made the statement, her demeanor was more calm and collected.

[Thad Mueller]

And so after that was conducted and the crime scene was cleared, Chris McAllister said, hey, Caitlin, would you mind coming in Monday to do a formal interview? Which is natural, what let people, the shock of everything calm down and do a formal interview that's more thorough. She agreed to, I'll see you Monday morning, 10 o' clock on December 4th, I believe.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

But to the detective's surprise, Caitlin did not show up at the appointed time.

[Thad Mueller]

And that time came and went, and she did not come, come in until almost 5 o' clock that afternoon with a lawyer.

[Scott Weinberger]

So from a detective's point of view, you notice the lawyer, you notice the missed appointment, you notice the delay, but you have to be disciplined enough not to turn a constitutional right into evidence of guilt. At the same time, it does change the temperature of the interview. She's not just a person who found the body anymore. She's Kirby's partner. She lived in the house. She has access. She has a timeline. And she may have information no one else has. So the biggest question is not, did she get a lawyer? The bigger question is, what does she say once she's there? And what does she leave out? And does any of her story match the evidence?

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

And, you know, it is interesting. Like, look, just from a common sense perspective, you do, you raise eyebrows if someone misses an appointment with a detective and they show up with a lawyer. But you know, Scott, as you pointed out, it is her absolute right. And I'm going to say something that might seem a bit counterintuitive as a prosecutor here, but look, it's also smart. She knows that as Kirby's partner, that there's a very good chances that she is going to be looked at as a potential suspect. And we don't know what her past experience have been with law enforcement or her family. So there's a lot of different ways or different reasons I should say that this happened, but it's absolutely something that is going to be at least noticed and kind of put in the back of their minds as they move forward on this investigation.

[Scott Weinberger]

So in the interview, Caitlyn did answer questions about Kirby and their relationship. And considering they had recently welcomed a newborn child, you would assume this had been a pretty joyful past few weeks. But according to Caitlyn, that was actually not the case.

[Thad Mueller]

In her very first interview. It sounds like the relationship is, as in Caitlyn's words from the stand, not to peach.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

Caitlin went on to claim that behind closed doors, Kirby was not exactly the perfect husband many assumed him to be.

[Thad Mueller]

She did get into Kirby's conduct and behavior.

[Ben Creakmore]

Yeah.

[Thad Mueller]

So she, early on, she was saying Kirby was abusive, Kirby had been abusive.

[Scott Weinberger]

Which, if true, meant that maybe Kirby had a dark side. Another factor that seems to again point away from the money as a primary motive for his murder.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

But pointing out that there were problems in the marriage, that he might even have been abusive, well, doesn't that also actually raise the possibility of a motive for Caitlin? It's almost like she might be laying out the beginning of some type of a defense.

[Thad Mueller]

It just seemed a little early to be talking about, hey, it could have been somebody else that, you know, he carries a lot of money around. And, oh, by the way, Kirby has been known to be abusive.

[Scott Weinberger]

Now, if this was my case, I'd be thinking it's too early to totally dismiss the idea that money was the primary motive for the murder. I mean, here was a guy with a reputation of being a successful businessman with lots of irons in the fire,

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

not to mention a literal bag of coins, that leather satchel he always wore of valuables that he was known to carry around, right.

[Scott Weinberger]

So let me say, even if he still had cash on him when his body was found, that didn't mean that he didn't have other treasures or possessions that may have been targeted.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

And some things that happened after Kirby's death seemed to confirm that. Caitlin had gathered the extended family at the home and the behavior of some of their relatives really started raising suspicions.

[Thad Mueller]

And her mom and dad were there at the house. They're not on the title. It's Kirby's home. And while they're there, there's a lot of valuables in the house.

[Scott Weinberger]

At this point, Kaitlin's parents, Jeff and Karen Spence, had driven back down from Virginia. And it sounds like they weren't planning to go back empty handed.

[Thad Mueller]

The Spences that are taking valuables. And then you had Kirby's family, Matty's, Jane and Casey, they're trying to sort through things and, you know, figure out what's going on and how to, how to move forward while at the same time they're, you know, trying to process the fact that their brother and their son had been violently murdered at his house.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

Tensions between the families were high, especially when Kirby's siblings suspected that Caitlin parents had their sights on some of his valuables.

[Scott Weinberger]

In fact, things got so bad that calls were made to the sheriff's office and to the county prosecutor.

[Thad Mueller]

His advice to Chris was send a deputy out there just to make sure that there's no breach of the peace. You know, it's not. Law enforcement is not called out there to determine, you know, whose silver coin belongs to who, who, but they're there to make, make sure that, you know, there's no breach of the peace. And, and there was a deputy there that observed Matty Jane taking bags of silver coins out of Jeff Spence's Cadillac. Cadillac out of the trunk. And the value of that one bag was thousands of dollars worth of money.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

Jeff Spence claimed that the coins belonged to him. But nevertheless, taking Kirby's valuables out of his house before there had even been a funeral, not a good look.

[Scott Weinberger]

And I think it also put Caitlin and her parents in a whole new light too, this time not as grieving family members, but as potential suspects. Whether Kirby did owe Jeff money or he was just claiming he did, he now had something police didn't know he had before, A motive.

[Thad Mueller]

The point of that is you've got to take that into consideration. When she shows up at the sheriff's department with an attorney, it doesn't mean necessarily, oh, look, I'm not going to cooperate with the investigation. There's some property that's at issue. There's obviously a crime that has occurred. But it was important to us later on when Caitlin notified us that it was her dad's advice and insistence, and he actually was the one who paid, went with her to the attorney's office and paid her lawyer fee.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

And then there were other concerns within Kirby's family that started to emerge as they began to assess the state of his home. For example, his mom discovered that the code to a safe, a code which she'd been entrusted with, had recently been changed.

[Thad Mueller]

We find out later in the investigation that Kirby there were only three people that had access to the codes to the safe, and that was Kirby Carpenter. That was Kaitlyn Spence, and that was Maddie Jane, Kirby's mom, Maddy. Jane reports to law enforcement that her code doesn't work. So that kind of narrows it down to Caitlin as to who changed the code for the access to the safes. Now, we don't know when that happened, but we know they were changed.

[Scott Weinberger]

Now, if I'm Kirby's mother or siblings, it would bother me to see anyone taking his valuables out of the house. But as you know, these kinds of disputes over an estate state, when someone dies, they're pretty common and not necessarily proof of a plot to commit murder.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

But finding out that codes to a safe were changed possibly within hours of Kirby's body being discovered or just before, well, that's a lot harder to explain.

[Scott Weinberger]

These were all pieces of a potential theory, Circumstantial evidence at best. But without physical evidence, it felt like a lot more speculative, Very possibly supercharged by the bad blood between the Carpenters and the Spences. Now, from a law enforcement perspective, this is where you have to slow down. A lot of this looks suspicious, but suspicion is not proof. After a violent death, people can act badly for all kinds of reasons. Greed, panic, grief, and obviously all involving family resentments. At some times, the job is to separate the ugly behavior from the actual evidence. And at this point, that's where the case is. The theory is starting to form, but the proof still isn't there.

[Thad Mueller]

Everything was purely circumstantial. I don't think that there was enough at this point to really confirm that or enough to get. Definitely not enough to get an arrest warrant.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

On December 20, 2022, a little less than a month after the murder, the Spence family, including Caitlin and her daughter, left Mississippi for Virginia.

[Scott Weinberger]

And back in Tippa county, investigators were left hunting down any other leads.

[Thad Mueller]

Chris McAllister was questioning as many people as he could. He worked narcotics, and you know as well as I do a lot of tips come from that. Those former contacts, confidential informants, word on the street if somebody else had been involved, you know, he would catch wind of it and he could track that down. And there was nothing.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

No gun, no fingerprints, no DNA, and so far, no proof of who killed Kirby Carpenter. But investigators in Tipuck county were not giving up. Because in this part of the world, certain secrets have a way of finally making their way to the surface.

[Ben Creakmore]

Now, I'll say this, and Ben's 100% correct. We never knew that if we're going to get that magical piece of evidence, everything we had was circumstantial. But I think in the law enforcement's heads, something was up with the Spencer. The letter was sent from Pennsylvania. It turns out it was sent by Giovanni Aguayo. Giovanni Aguayo is the husband of Carolyn Aguayo, who happens to be Carolyn Spence, that's Caitlin's sister, and Jeff and Karen's younger daughter.

[Scott Weinberger]

A letter from Jeff and Karen Spence's son in law delivered to investigators in Tippa county was about to provide a major break in the case of Kirby Carpenter's murder.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

And what it described was a history of toxic and threatening behavior by Jeff Spence, witnessed by the couple shortly after they had been married.

[Ben Creakmore]

The Spences latched on to them when Carolyn and Gio were married and living in North Carolina. Latched onto them, followed them when they moved to Virginia.

[Scott Weinberger]

According to the details in the letter, arguments with Jeff Spence always centered around money and his lack of it.

[Ben Creakmore]

Needless to say, the relationship became volatile on the part of Jeff Spence. Reached a point where the Aguellos didn't feel safe around him. There were some threats made and the relationship deteriorated and they left. They basically said, get out. So the Spences moved back to Saltville. Then they latch onto the Kirby and Caitlyn relationship. They're like parasites.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

Kaitlin's sister and her husband then became worried that Jeff Spence would try to pull the same thing with Kirby. Trying to assert himself into Kirby's life and his finances.

[Scott Weinberger]

And they considered him such a danger that they even thought to warn Kirby.

[Thad Mueller]

They don't want anybody to know where they live live because they're afraid of their father. But when they're talking to each other, you know, as couples will do, they're concerned about Kirby. And Gio tells Carolyn, Carolyn maybe ought to call Kirby and just kind of warn him, let him know what we've experienced, just to give him a heads up. And so they begin to track him down to find out more about him, maybe with an interest in contacting him. And when they. When they look up Ripley, Mississippi, Kirby Carpenter, they find that he has just been violently murdered.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

And so the Investigation took Chris McAllister to Pennsylvania to learn more about Jeff Spence's time there.

[Thad Mueller]

What investigator McAllister reported to us was that, yeah, they were known up there that Jeff Spence had, you know, maybe sort of a para up there or a known bad actor.

[Scott Weinberger]

And this was the tipping point when a detective starts to sense, we've got our guy, now we just have to prove it.

[Thad Mueller]

His instinct on that is slowly being confirmed by every little bit of information that he gets. Still all very thin and circumstantial, but still, hey, you're looking in the right direction.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

And it gave them good incentive to reexamine Jeff Spence's timeline, his financials, his associates.

[Scott Weinberger]

It also gave them a little extra ammo, if you will, to re approach other potential witnesses around town that might be a little more willing to talk. Now that police had a suspect, that's

[Thad Mueller]

where David Barnes enters the picture. David Barnes is a guy that worked for Kirby, had a drug problem, was a good friend of Kirby's. He can't work for Kirby anymore because Kirby has been killed. So it appears that he begins to kind of spiral out of control. He doesn't have that Kirby influence in his life.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

Barnes ended up going on a bit of a burglary spree in multiple counties. But lucky for police, he wasn't really good at it.

[Thad Mueller]

He's known to law enforcement, has been for a while, has a fairly colorful criminal history, but is never known to have committed any violent crime and is never known to be a dangerous individual to anybody other than himself.

[Scott Weinberger]

Barnes eventually gets himself arrested, and investigators decide to ask him if he had any opinions on his friend's Kirby's murder.

[Thad Mueller]

They knew of his relationship with Kirby. They knew that he would sort of know more than anybody what had happened in the days leading up to his death, who he encountered, who he dealt with, you know, where he went. And they would also know that he, being a friend, would have an interest in knowing what happened.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

Criminals or people with prior contacts with the system are not always the most reliable witnesses. But Their access to information is often unmatched. And when they're facing their own pending charges, sometimes they're pretty forthcoming with that info, often trying to trade it for leniency.

[Thad Mueller]

He gave him a statement. It said, yes, I went at the funeral to Caitlin and said, you know, you know how close I am to Kirby. You know, I deserve to know what happened to him.

[Ben Creakmore]

Yeah, he says, kate, I deserve to know. I want to know what happened. In his statement, he said that Caitlin said things got out of hand and dad killed Kirby. Then he testified that Jeff overheard this and came over and said, and if you tell anybody, you'll be next.

[Scott Weinberger]

You'll be next. It was a confession and a threat and the best evidence yet proving Jeff Spence killed Kirby.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

But as Ben pointed out, it also left an opening that prosecutors would eventually have to contend with because Barnes never learned exactly why Spence killed Kirby, nor did he have the evidence to prove it.

[Thad Mueller]

So from our perspective, the information is, if you take it as true, doesn't prove capital murder. If there's an unlawful killing and a robbery, maybe it is capital murder. But things got out of hand. A jury could come to the conclusion that that's, you know, manslaughter, heat of passion, or it could create a self defense even.

[Scott Weinberger]

In other words, even with Barnes testimony, in order to get a first degree or capital murder conviction, they would have to prove that Spence killed Kirby intentionally during a robbery or planned to kill Kirby and that it wasn't done in the heat of the moment.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

But Barnes statement added to the growing body of circumstantial evidence that had been accumulating against Jeff Spence, his wife and his daughter, who police believed was a party to either the planning, the COVID up, or both.

[Scott Weinberger]

Law enforcement coordinated arrests across multiple states. Kaitlin Spence was located and arrested in Pennsylvania by the U.S. marshals Service, while Jeffrey and Karen Spence were taken into custody in Virginia.

[Ben Creakmore]

They were arrested on 11:30, which is strange because it was a year to the date of the murder, 11:30 of 23.

[Thad Mueller]

At the same time that he was arrested, the search warrants were being executed as well. So it all went down sort of at the same time.

[Ben Creakmore]

They get a search warrant for the house, which led to a critical piece of evidence. Under the bed, wrapped in a blue jacket, was a 12 gauge shotgun that was loaded partially with had six shells, three of them being bug shot.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

Police also recovered a stash of cash which was strangely wrapped in aluminum foil.

[Scott Weinberger]

Also recovered was a Faraday style bag, a design bag which is basically a signal blocking pouch. It's lined with material that prevents radio frequencies from getting in or out. So if you put a cell phone inside, the phone can't connect to cell towers, wi fi, Bluetooth, or GPS in any normal way, which could have been a factor here, as investigators did believe could have been used to prevent a phone from being tracked during, say, an 18 hour trip between Virginia and Mississippi on the day of the murder.

[Ben Creakmore]

The phone calls identified several bank boxes and storage units. And also when Jeff was arrested, he had keys to a lot of these things. So they go into the bank box and they're able to get the records when the bank box was open. And that bank box was opened on December 2nd of 2022, two hours before Kirby's body was discovered. And in that bank box, which he also logged into that day, was a check for $90 made payable to David Barnes from Kirby Carpenter. And there were various other receipts and paper items from the People's bank and Trust Company in Ripley, Mississippi. Bank bands that were empty didn't have any money in them.

[Thad Mueller]

The items in that bank box had no inherent value to anybody other than business records for Kirby or that check that he was holding for David Barnes. Absolute no value to Jeff Spence.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

A shotgun cash and the keys to the victim's safety deposit boxes, all in the possession of the man they suspected of plotting and carrying out Kirby's murder.

[Scott Weinberger]

The evidence strengthened the theory that Kirby's murder had been motivated by little more than financial gain.

[Ben Creakmore]

I always thought Kirby was killed for greed, yes. But I think it was two phases. It was what he could grab that night that he killed him, and then what he could grab when he came back and, quote, found out that Kirby was dead. But he also knew that Caitlin and Kirby were not married and Kirby didn't have a will. So he knows that the only heirs to Kirby's estate, which is substantial, or Enola, his granddaughter and Kirby's other child, both who are minors. So down the road, it gives him access control of that half of the estate. I think he's looking at that.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

And if that was indeed the case, then this plan had likely been in motion for a while. Which puts their last Thanksgiving dinner in a whole new light.

[Thad Mueller]

In hindsight, if he was responsible for Kirby's death, then, yes, it is bizarre for him to have insisted on having that last supper together as a family. You know, the irony of him knowing what's about to happen to Kirby and his family.

[Scott Weinberger]

So I'm gonna play devil's advocate here for a moment because investigators still didn't have definitive physical evidence placing him at the scene. In fact, what they did have was proof that he and his wife Karen had indeed made it back to Virginia the day before the murder, which to me sort of feels problematic.

[Ben Creakmore]

There was plenty of time for them to drive back to Virginia, get there no later than midnight, get some rest, get up in the morning and drive back to Mississippi in plenty of time to lay in wait and kill Kirby.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

Another question detectives must have had was the extent of Caitlin's involvement. Did she know what her father had planned beforehand or was she just involved in the COVID up?

[Ben Creakmore]

We knew Caitlin didn't pull the trigger because we had her on video at Walmart in Boonville about 20 to 30 minutes away from the house, 7:30 at night. And we knew when the gunshot was heard. We knew when Kirby went dark after he was texting with Caitlin at 6, I think I said 6:37pm There's a image of her on Walmart security. The time was all checked out, so we knew she didn't pull the trigger.

[Scott Weinberger]

But according to the statement by David Barnes, she knew who killed Kirby. And given her quick exit from Mississippi after the funeral, she expected to benefit.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

Kaitlin, Karen and Jeff Spence were all extradited to Mississippi and charged with capital murder, conspiracy and larceny. Reflecting the prosecution's belief that the killing was part of a coordinated effort involving all three family members.

[Scott Weinberger]

Caitlyn eventually decided to sign a cooperation agreement, pleading guilty to her accessory after the fact in exchange for testimony against her father.

[Thad Mueller]

She cooperated, but it was highly scripted and controlled by the lawyer. And it included a coterie of other individuals that had had issues with Kirby in the past. And she went into greater detail about instances or claimed instances of abuse, claims

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

that police investigated but could never substantiate.

[Scott Weinberger]

And when it came time for her to outline the details of the murder plot, she seemed to hedge there too.

[Thad Mueller]

We thought that that statement would include explanations for all of the suspicious activity surrounding the time frame of Thanksgiving to December 20, but there was no mention of that whatsoever.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

But she did offer up a very critical and chilling detail that put the blame squarely on her father.

[Thad Mueller]

She tells law enforcement that I began to question whether my dad was involved and that he should answer questions that she had. And she tells them that November 29, before that, her mom and dad leave for Virginia. Her dad pulls her aside and says, hey, when you go to work tomorrow and you, you take Enola to your friend's house after work, you need to go have a girl's night out. Go to the Mexican restaurant, take Enola and Bailey and treat them.

[Scott Weinberger]

Caitlin even claimed that her father later confessed to the murder.

[Thad Mueller]

She tells law enforcement that she goes on a walk with her dad. This is in Virginia, around the property, and apparently there is a. A little waterfall near their home. And at that location that she says, you know, you need to tell me. And his statement to her was, you know, yeah, I did it. Don't ask any more questions. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth.

[Ben Creakmore]

I did what I had to do.

[Thad Mueller]

I did what I had to do.

[Scott Weinberger]

Caitlin's mother, Karen Spence, also accepted a plea agreement, entering a guilty plea to accessory after the fact to grand larceny. Under an Alford plea, she received a suspended sentence and probation. And just a quick reminder, an Alford plea is when a defendant maintains their innocence but admits the prosecution likely had enough evidence to convict them, so they accept a guilty plea without fully admitting the crime.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

The case against Jeff Spence proceeded to trial. Despite ongoing challenges, the prosecution, faced with the case, built almost entirely on circumstantial, albeit strong circumstant evidence.

[Scott Weinberger]

They had found the shotgun, but ballistics could not prove that it was the murder weapon. They had testimony from Caitlin and Dave Barnes, but again, this was only their word against his to prove their case.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

It would be all about weaving these bits of evidence together into a convincing narrative. That Jeff Spence had traveled from Virginia to Mississippi to ambush Kirby at home. That he or Caitlin had access to home safe and a safety deposit box and stolen a still unknown amount of cash, coins, and valuables.

[Ben Creakmore]

There's no way we'll ever determine how much of Kirby's valuables they took, but just the value of his estate alone was million and a half bucks.

[Scott Weinberger]

The defense countered that there was no direct forensic evidence placing Spence at the scene. They also continued to raise doubts about Kirby's character, opening up possibilities that there was someone else who could have had motives to kill or want him dead.

[Thad Mueller]

We knew that Kirby was going to be attacked, you know, pointing fingers at other people that could have done it.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

And as a prosecutor, that's just something you have to be prepared for. And they were.

[Thad Mueller]

Defense can attack the victim. You know, somebody else did it because of some shady business deal, or, you know, he's a drug dealer or he sells guns. And again, Chris McAllister has been in law enforcement all his life. And, you know, he's getting toward the end of his career. I asked him, I said, have you ever heard of Kirby engaged in any of that kind of activity? And he Said no.

[Scott Weinberger]

Caitlin testified that her father had admitted his involvement in the killing. Caitlin's sister testified to a history of volatile and threatening behavior.

[Thad Mueller]

In my experience, if you've got daughters testifying against a father, hey, you're gonna get a conviction in this case. It didn't work that way.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

Jeffrey Spence's first trial ended in a mistrial after the jury was unable to reach a unanimous verdict. A result that was devastating to Kirby's family, especially his mom.

[Ben Creakmore]

Just emotionally devastated, I think is the best way to describe it for a family to go through and then to sit through week long trial and hearing the defense attempt to take her son, her dead son, through the mud. She was devastated.

[Scott Weinberger]

Jeff Spence was emboldened by his temporary reprieve, but it would only last a short time as prosecutors pushed for an immediate retrial.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

Adding to the evidence the second time around were photos of another car that Spencer owned that was picked up by tag readers between Virginia and Mississippi. And it's kind of a fun story how that came to light. So go to Our Patreon Homicide360 page to hear it told by the prosecutors

[Thad Mueller]

and guess when that vehicle was recorded as traveling south toward Tippa County. November 30, 2022, at 8:30. At 8:30 in the morning, plenty of time to make it to Tippett county and kill Kirby.

[Scott Weinberger]

But the biggest bombshell came in the form of a surprise witness, a man named Tracy, someone Ben and Thad were unable to locate before the first trial, but who had recently surfaced when he reached out to the Tippett County Sheriff's Office.

[Ben Creakmore]

I get a call and he goes, hey, dad, you're not going to believe who I found. I said, I have no idea, Brad, who is it? And he said, tracy Delp. And I went, oh, really? What do you have to say? And he goes, not what they think he's going to say. And what Tracy said was that Spence had been talking about killing Kirby for about eight to 10 months before the murder, tried to pay Tracy to do it, to go to Mississippi and do it, which he wouldn't. And then he left for Thanksgiving to go, quote, on vacation. And the next time I saw him was later in December. And he had a bunch of bags of coins in his black Suburban.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

But was this more talk from a dubious witness or was this the finishing blow in the prosecution?

[Ben Creakmore]

The most important thing, he said he knew details about the killing. He said, Tracy said. He told me he left the boots uncovered so they could discover the body.

[Scott Weinberger]

It was a detail unknown to the General public. And it fit with prosecutors theory of Spence's plan.

[Thad Mueller]

I think he moved the body to give Caitlin plausible deniability. You know, hey, she didn't immediately discover it. It'd give him time to get back to Virginia if there's delayed discovery, but put it close enough where it will be found shortly thereafter.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

Now, would this witness deliver that testimony to now a new jury? And the case just might hinge on whether or not they would believe him.

[Ben Creakmore]

He came down, walked in that courtroom, and he did a fantastic job. The case was tried in Calhoun county, and based on everything I was told afterwards, the jury really liked him and really believed him.

[Scott Weinberger]

In the second trial of Jeff Spence, the jury deliberated for just two hours before returning a guilty verdict.

[Ben Creakmore]

Thirty minutes that was eating lunch.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

In the end, a judge said sentenced Jeff Spence to life in prison. Ben and Thad both credit law enforcement across multiple jurisdictions for their perseverance in solving this crime.

[Thad Mueller]

Chris McAllister never gave up on this case. I see someone who, you know, just absolutely did everything under the sun to get the proof required to bring justice. Without Chris McAllister, we wouldn't be taught right now in the way we are.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

Justice proved to be a long and painful journey for Kirby's family. But their strength in the face of tragedy was also essential in getting a conviction and putting his killer behind bars.

[Thad Mueller]

They've expressed themselves about their loss of their loved one, but they never wavered in their support and encouragement, prayers for us and to be able to. To get a conviction against Jeff Spence, who, you know, the jury was convinced we had met our burden of proof that he was in fact the one that pulled the trigger.

[Scott Weinberger]

They never wavered in their support. That part stays with me. Because in a case like this, justice doesn't happen quickly and it doesn't happen cleanly. It takes a family willing to sit through the worst parts of their own loss and investigators who keep pulling at every loose thread until the truth finally starts to show itself. And when you step back from this case, what you see is a web of lies, greed, family loyalty twisted into something very ugly and people who thought they could cover one terrible act with another. But the thing about a web like this is eventually it starts to catch the people who built it. Kirby's life was worth more than money, coins, property, or any plan built around stealing from him. And in the end, that web didn't protect his killer. It helped expose him.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

Kirby Carpenter was an entrepreneur, a son and a dad. He was a man who had many friends and was loved by his family. His father in law saw a selfish opportunity and it came out at the expense of Kirby's life. Kirby's daughter lost her father to murder and has to live forever with the knowledge that her mom played a role, as did her grandmother. And of course, it was her grandfather who planned it and who pulled the trigger. That is a lot, way too much for any young person to have to bear. So our thoughts are with her. We hope she's been given all the love and support that she needs as she walks through life now with only memories of her dad. Tune in next week for another new episode of Homicide 360.

[Scott Weinberger]

Homicide 360 is created and produced by Forsetti Media and Weinberger Media.

[Anna Sega Nicolasi]

Supervising producer is Walker Lamond. Managing Managing editor is Kate Mack. Sabrina Sarai is production manager. Edited by Ali Sierra and Phil Jean Grande. Original theme music by Trey Anderson.