‘A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms’ Episode 1 Reactions | Talk the Thrones

Summary

House of R: ‘A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms’ Episode 1 Reactions | Talk the Thrones

Date: January 19, 2026
Hosts: Chris Ryan, Joanna Robinson, Mallory Rubin
Podcast: House of R (The Ringer)

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Overview:

The House of R team—Chris Ryan, Joanna Robinson, and Mallory Rubin—gather to deliver a lively and deep-dive discussion of the first episode of HBO’s new Game of Thrones spinoff, A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms: The Hedge Knight. The panel brings their trademark mix of lore expertise, humor, and story analysis, reacting to the tone, adaptation, characters, and world-building of this highly anticipated series, while making connections to the books, prior GOT shows, and broader fantasy themes.

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Episode Structure & Flow:

• 00:00–01:13: Sponsor ads (skipped)
• 01:13: Chris kicks off the episode; team introductions.
• 03:18–09:04: Chris’s recap of the episode, with commentary/interruptions from Joanna and Mallory.
• 10:54–14:17: Favorite moments from the episode.
• 16:24–21:52: Discussion of the novellas and their significance.
• 22:03–26:13: On POV, adaptation choices, and visual storytelling.
• 26:39–36:54: Historical context within Westeros and the importance of tournaments.
• 37:04–38:34: On myth-making and the origins of Ser Duncan’s legend.
• 38:44–39:08: Reliability of Dunk’s POV and narrative tone.
• 39:17–41:23: Casting and performances—especially Dunk and Egg.
• 41:23–47:28: Character deep dives—Lionel Baratheon, tournament characters, women’s roles.
• 48:48–51:23: Falling star moment and discussing social mobility, symbolism, and optimism in Thrones.
• 51:23–52:37: Housekeeping and details of ongoing House of R coverage.

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Key Themes and Discussion Points

1. Immediate Impressions & Adaptation Success

• Chris: "This might be my favorite piece of Game of Thrones content since season three, season four Thrones...This is giving me the same vibes." (02:08)
• Joanna: Relief and excitement at the show’s quality and faithfulness: “I was so scared that this wouldn't be phenomenal...the books are phenomenal and I was just like they have to do it right. And I think they really, really did it. I'm so excited.” (02:28)
• Mallory: Praises tonal fidelity and the "feeling of being back in a world that we love." Adds gratitude that the show’s essence matches the beloved novellas. (02:43)

2. Episode 1 Recap & Character Introductions

Chris’s Recap (03:18–09:04):

• We meet Ser Duncan the Tall—a hedge knight who buries his mentor Ser Arlen and sets out for Ashford Meadow’s tournament, hoping for glory and a new path.
• Encounters with various characters, including a mysterious bald stable boy (Egg), Lyonel Baratheon, various knights, and numerous world-building asides.
• Notable moments: Dunk's "important" bathroom scene (see Favorite Moments), the rustic tavern, the puppet show, and the dynamic with Egg.

3. Favorite Moments & Scene Standouts

Joanna:

• Favorite Moment: “There’s a dance scene in this episode and I just thought it was phenomenal.” (10:54)
• Highlights: Lionel Baratheon's tent/party, falling star scene, and nearly line-by-line adaptation of book dialogue—"Almost every single line of dialogue that's in the book is in the show." (11:15)
• Praises the smart expansion of Lionel's role for TV.

Mallory:

• Favorite Moments: Split between the falling star ("made me tear up") and the show's comedic irreverence—"the tie has to be...the brief beat of the classic Thrones theme into Sir Duncan, the tall, like, hippo spraying shit out of his ass." (12:02)
• Notes this choice sets the show's tone—a nod to but also a riff on Thrones seriousness.
• On adaptation: "The faithful nature of the adaptation is really heartening and cool...But the additions felt so, like, energized." (12:02)

Chris:

• Also selects the bathroom sequence as a favorite: "Because it's a show ruiner if it doesn’t work... If you're going to invoke the Game of Thrones theme song... I was like, oh, shit, yeah. Game of Thrones music's playing.” (13:52)
• Praises Dan Romer’s score and the show’s tonal "thesis statement." (14:13–14:27)

Notable Quotes:

• "The luck is ours alone." – Dunk and Egg, about the falling star (49:24)
• "So we're watching a myth be born inside of this story." – Joanna on the origin of 'Duncan the Tall' (38:04)
• "Wear it like armor, and it can't be used to hurt you." – Referencing a classic Thrones motif, discussed in relation to Dunk and Egg’s status (50:44)

4. Background: The Novellas & George R.R. Martin’s Intentions

Joanna:

• “Three novellas currently exist. This season's gonna be based on the Hedge Knight, the first one, which was written in 1998.” (16:24)
• Explains Martin’s desire for approachability: “There's such a good introduction to Westeros...a few inconsistencies here and there. But I think they’re a great intro.” (16:39–17:35)
• Recommends the audiobooks, especially Harry Lloyd's narration (21:31)

Mallory:

• Praises the novellas' charm and tone: “They're approachable. Their POV is so different...” (19:13)
• Notes the odd couple pairing of Dunk and Egg as “wonderful.” (20:02)

5. Adaptation Choices & Visual POV

Chris:

• Appreciates that the show is visually aligned with Dunk's perspective, offering a “stranger in a strange land” feel rather than encyclopedic lore drops:
  "Characters, like Lyonel, for instance, appear the way they would appear to dunk across the room...as this kind of regal man of mystery." (22:03)
• Recognizes adaptation work to externalize Dunk’s internal monologue by having him mutter to his horses (23:29)

6. Historical Context: Where Are We in Westeros?

Joanna & Mallory:

• The show is set “100 years before Game of Thrones,” in the aftermath of the Blackfyre Rebellion (27:15).
• Critically, Targaryens DON’T have dragons at this point—joanna: “They don’t have their WMDs.” (27:44)
• Political tensions—Targaryens are consolidating after a rebellion and showing off at a tourney for “insecure power, legacy maintenance.” (28:02–29:23)
• House and regional politics get detailed, e.g. the significance of Ashford and presence of houses like Baratheon, Tyrell, Dondarrion (29:36–31:21)

7. Tournaments: Setting & Social Mobility

Joanna:

• Tournaments as a blend of pageantry, social mixing, and opportunity for “upward mobility”—“A tourney is a place for all these houses outside of the battlefield to mix and mingle.” (33:29)
• Tournaments as stages for myths and reputation-building (37:04).

Mallory:

• Connects tourneys to key Thrones themes: glory, social climbing, and the creation and transmission of legends and myths (34:53–38:34).

8. Casting, Performances & Character Work

Chris:

• Praises casting lesser-known actors—“They make stars, they don't hire stars.” (39:22)
• Special mention for Peter Claffy (Dunk) and Dexter Sol Ansell (Egg), and Daniel Ings (Lionel Baratheon).

Mallory:

• Praises Claffy: “I think Peter Claffy is just fantastic as Dunk. Like, almost better than you could have dared to hope for.” (40:00)
• “It’s really smart to make the two main characters relative unknowns, then populate the outskirts with seasoned actors.” (41:01)

9. Lionel Baratheon: Scene-Stealer and Intrigue

All Hosts:

• Daniel Ings’ Lionel Baratheon (“The Laughing Storm”) gets major praise for charisma, comedic timing, and his expanded role.
• “It’s very Gaston in Beauty and the Beast of him.” (Joanna, on the antlered helm/crown, 41:27)
• “The Laughing Storm, one of the sickest monikers in Westerosi history... just top tier.” (Mallory, 43:22)
• His drunken, poetic, and compassionate side is likened to Tyrion Lannister.

10. Social Status, Myth, and the Dunk & Egg Dynamic

Joanna:

• On myth-making: “Duncan the Tall is a name cobbled together from what different people said to him inside of this episode.” (38:04)
• The show leans into the formation of legend—Dunk as a blank slate/humble origin myth.

Mallory:

• On thematic resonance: “The world of Game of Thrones can be so bleak and so grim. Moments like that...still tap into that core idea: then it can't be used to hurt you. Wear it like armor.” (51:10)
• The importance of the falling star moment, as a literal and symbolic gesture—luck and new beginnings for Dunk and Egg.

11. Tropes, Humor, and Inside Baseball

• Meta humor and banter about bathroom scenes, “not a big bathroom guy” (Chris, 05:01), and “big episode for gingers” (Joanna, 46:42).
• Detailed debate on worldbuilding details (e.g., Baratheon antler crowns, “live fact checking on how you have spelled character names,” 03:40), and GoT’s running use of “whores” as character windows.
• Playful in-episode corrections and allusions to classic Thrones motifs (“wear it like armor”), Deadwood, and more.

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Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• Chris: "This might be my favorite piece of Game of Thrones content since season three, season four Thrones...This is giving me the same vibes." (02:08)
• Joanna: "I was so scared that this wouldn't be phenomenal...the books are phenomenal and I was just like they have to do it right. And I think they really, really did it. I'm so excited." (02:28)
• Mallory: "Honestly, I think they have nailed the tone, the sensibility, like, that specific essence not only of these novellas that we adore...but also have given us that feeling of like, being back in a world that we love and being glad to be back." (02:43)
• Mallory (on the falling star): "The subtle little sh—to take an inner monologue moment for Dunk in the book and give that to Egg...Egg not only being a little, like, impudent smartass, but sharing some wisdom I think is great." (12:34)
• Chris (on adaptation): “When they started playing [the Thrones theme], I was like, oh, shit, yeah. Game of Thrones music's playing.” (14:09)
• Joanna: "Almost every single line of dialogue that's in the book is in the show...except for the Lionel Baratheon stuff, which is completely added and is incredible." (11:15)
• Mallory: "I just cosigned what Joe said. I find them more delightful every time I return to them...the accessibility, the tone, the charm..." (18:29)
• Joanna (novella utility): "They're such a good introduction to Westeros. I think some people feel intimidated by the Song of Ice and Fire books..." (16:39)
• Chris (on show POV): "The show itself is shot from a pov, like Lyonel...appear[s] as this kind of regal man of mystery, rather than...let's just go through his timeline here..." (22:03)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:13 – Start of discussion, team introductions
• 03:18 – Episode 1 plot recap (Dunk, Egg, journey, tournament, tavern, etc.)
• 10:54 – Hosts’ favorite moments from the episode
• 16:24 – Overview of the Dunk & Egg novellas, GRRM’s motivations
• 22:03 – POV adaptation and how it shapes the show's visual storytelling
• 26:39 – Historical context, Targaryen dynasty, Blackfyre Rebellion
• 33:29 – Role of tournaments, pageantry, and social mobility
• 37:04 – The birth of the legend of Dunk—myth-making in real time
• 41:23 – Lionel Baratheon spotlight
• 48:48 – The falling star moment and its symbolism
• 51:23 – Housekeeping on House of R’s ongoing coverage plans

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Tone and Language

The episode maintains the House of R’s signature mix: nerdy reverence, a dash of irreverence, deep engagement with lore, and witty, inclusive banter. The hosts toggle easily between granular detail, show-only accessibility, and bigger-picture Game of Thrones themes, always welcoming listeners who might be new to the world or the books.

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Final Notes

• The hosts will continue with deep, scene-by-scene coverage of the series each week, including book spoiler sections for those who want them.
• Chris Ryan enthuses about the show’s immediate “episodic” accessibility compared to House of the Dragon’s endless wiki-trawling.
• Mallory and Joanna highlight the joy of returning to stories that can be both light, hopeful, and not weighed down by dark lore, even within Westeros.
• The consensus: a promising debut for A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms—funny, beautifully rendered, and full of story potential for fans old and new.

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Listen to the full episode for more lore, laughs, and Book vs. Show analysis!

Transcript

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[Chris Ryan]

Hello and welcome to Talk the Thrones. I'm Chris Ryan. I am an [e-mail] and joining me in the studio is Joanna Robinson.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, hi.

[Chris Ryan]

And sitting in the ash chair, it's Mallory Rubin. We are here to break down the first episode of A Night of the Seven Kingdoms. Coming at you just after this, Guys. We're back.

[Mallory Rubin]

We're back, baby. Joy, we're back.

[Chris Ryan]

And we have such a bite size, you know, digestible television show this time. Six episodes, about 40 minutes each. I get it. I have no questions. You're not needed. I can just break.

[Joanna Robinson]

Should we go? Great.

[Mallory Rubin]

It sounds like we can go get a car.

[Joanna Robinson]

All right.

[Chris Ryan]

I'm so excited to talk about this show with you. This might be my favorite piece of Game of Thrones content since season three, season four Thrones, maybe some mid peak Thrones. I feel like this is giving me the same vibes. Joanna, great to see you. I assume huge fan of the show, but pleased with the first episode.

[Joanna Robinson]

I was so scared that this wouldn't be phenomenal.

[Chris Ryan]

Were you really?

[Joanna Robinson]

I was because the books are phenomenal and I was just like they have to do it right. And I think they really, really did it. I'm so excited.

[Chris Ryan]

We are gonna talk about the books, which I have not read. I'm shocked.

[Joanna Robinson]

So you might have a question or two for us.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, Mal everything you hoped for and more. Honestly, I think they have nailed the tone, the sensibility, like that specific essence not only of these novellas that we adore and maybe can compel you to read over the next six weeks, we'll see, but also have given us that feeling of like, being back in a world that we love and being glad to be back in a world that we love. And I for one, am grateful and grateful to be here with you. You both. I've dreamed of you.

[Joanna Robinson]

I are going to follow that up with get away.

[Mallory Rubin]

Stay away from me. I'm going to slump over in a pool of wine and then march off some steps in a very notable fashion.

[Chris Ryan]

Just leave a little bit of change for me. I'm going to do a quick recap of this episod, but obviously you two are free to interject wherever you want. Okay, so episode one, the Hedge Night. We meet Sir Dunk, soon to be known as Sir Duncan the Tall As. He buries his old boss, Sir Arlen, and contemplates his own future as a newly minted knight of the realm.

[Mallory Rubin]

Do you want live fact checking on how you have spelled character names or should we just hit you up on the side after the podcast?

[Joanna Robinson]

Do you remember before we started, Former Senator, before we started, we will interject compliments and I was like, no, I.

[Mallory Rubin]

Don'T think that's how charming and witty you are, you know? But also, names are spelled wrong.

[Joanna Robinson]

Dying to correct you on things.

[Chris Ryan]

All in Education show is that you can't really Google a ton because it'll just be like. And then he dies.

[Mallory Rubin]

Don't Google anything. Do not Google a thing. Stay out of the wikis, Stay off the Internet.

[Chris Ryan]

That would be a cool bit for the second half of my life is.

[Mallory Rubin]

Just, do you need the Internet for any other part of your job?

[Joanna Robinson]

This is. This is like a thing I'm hearing around LA as I've been here the last couple of days. People offline, breaking their phones.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh yeah, I was thinking about doing that.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Really?

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. For certain apps.

[Mallory Rubin]

Too much time on Instagram, certain apps.

[Chris Ryan]

If you know what I mean. As he takes stock of his possessions, a sword and a few horses, and his prospects, life in King's Landing as a member of City Watch, etc. He decides to enter a tournament in Ashford Meadow where he might make a name for himself. Make some bank in the process. Oh, while all this is happening, he takes an enormous deuce. Just I mentioned this. You know what? We're going to come back to that because I'M not a big bathroom guy in terms of just talking about it extensively, but I think it's an important moment in the show and I agree. Tone setter.

[Joanna Robinson]

Can the, can the Chiron be Chris Ryan, Big bathroom guy?

[Chris Ryan]

Not a big bathroom guy. But spare me your stories about famous bathroom trips. On the way to Ashford, Dunk stops at a small village in Slash Tavern that's doing some wonderful stuff with rustic small plate family style cooking. He spots a little bald homie and has him stable his horses while he's waiting for his multiple entrees inside the inn, a drunk dude tells him, tells Dunk that he has dreamed of him, which is always a fun thing to hear at a restaurant.

[Mallory Rubin]

Would you have gone for the lamb? Would you have gone for the duck? Would you have gone for Bose? Like Dunk?

[Chris Ryan]

Heavy, heavy proteins, heavy meats.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

I'm not a huge duck guy.

[Mallory Rubin]

Okay. No, no, too greasy. Toss duck.

[Chris Ryan]

I mean, like it always looks great.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

But I rich, I take two bites and I'm like, I would. I wish I could share this. I wish I.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's why I think save money. You just get the duck because it'll fill you up and then you have some for the road.

[Chris Ryan]

We can discuss this.

[Mallory Rubin]

Okay.

[Chris Ryan]

Duck, duck, duck. Overserved gentleman, blonde hair. When Dunk returns to the stable, the little ball boy asks Squire for him, but Dunk refuses. Yep, he rides to Ashford where it's infrastructure week and the whole town is out for the tournament. He has sign in first and that's where a tournament official tells him he needs some other nights sign off as you know, validation on his authenticity if he wants to compete in this jousting and fighting and et cetera tournament.

[Joanna Robinson]

Can I ask you as a, as a, as a podcaster, how did you feel about plumber's relationship to Flem? And is this something that you've considered as a tactic as you podcast for hours at a time?

[Mallory Rubin]

Just, is there liquid in the goblet or should it be empty for your.

[Joanna Robinson]

Loogies like my spill?

[Chris Ryan]

You know, it's good that you asked this.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

I grew up in a, a free spitting community in Philadelphia.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay.

[Chris Ryan]

Like among little leaguers where it was like considered cool to spit.

[Joanna Robinson]

So you're like, why even have a, a cup, a goblet?

[Chris Ryan]

That's what the city is for.

[Mallory Rubin]

How much of the lubrication on the lamp posts everyone is climbing just come from people spit in the city and film.

[Chris Ryan]

This is a big thing. It was like we would watch baseball and then we would go and do all Metro.

[Mallory Rubin]

Are you about to tell a story about being an all Metro catcher?

[Chris Ryan]

It's city champs, traveling baseball.

[Mallory Rubin]

I'm so sorry.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, I still have the jacket. I bet maybe I'll wear it for the finale.

[Mallory Rubin]

I think Plummer is some of Fenase's mint soothing mint tea concoction.

[Chris Ryan]

You know, I mean, obviously, like, there are some homeopathic remedies. He's. He's. He obviously looks at it as, like, a personality quirk and not as something to be solved.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think, you know, that the remedies are just like maggots and leeches at that point in the realm.

[Chris Ryan]

Save it for the pit.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

So Dunk goes out to seek Ser Manfred Dondarrion, but he's been napping, and he also has gout, so they don't connect. He watches another night, Ser Stefan beat the shit out of his squire cousin. Sir Steph tries to get Dunk to spar with him, but Duncan takes a rain check. Dunk sets up camp outside of the tournament grounds, does some laundry, makes another unsuccessful run at Sir Manfred, and then finds himself at a puppet show where he becomes smitten with the main performer. Dunk then bumps into the aforementioned cousin who got his ass beat. Raymond Fossoway, right?

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And he accompanies him to dinner in Lionel Baratheon's tent. This. This is just rocking stuff in here. Lionel and Dunk become something like friends, though, when it comes to Dunk's tournament process. But when it comes to Dunk's tournament prospects, Lionel gives him the opposite of Billy Bob Thornton's Friday Night Lights halftime speech, at which I did appreciate his candor, though.

[Mallory Rubin]

Absolutely.

[Chris Ryan]

And that's played. He's played by Danny. Daniel Ings. Yeah, I was gonna say Danny Ings.

[Joanna Robinson]

He's a lovesick fame.

[Chris Ryan]

Lovesick of the gentleman. On his way back to camp, Dunk finally meets Manfred, who seems like an asshole and denies knowing Sir Arlen. When he gets back to camp, Dunk finds his little homie egg, who is doing a nice branzino on the fire. The two become partners, knight and squire. And before they fall asleep, they see a falling star. Perhaps the only two witnesses of the occurrence. Maybe they will have some luck after all.

[Mallory Rubin]

Beautifully done.

[Joanna Robinson]

Here we get to the Chris Ryan beautifully done job.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Thanks.

[Joanna Robinson]

I missed these so much.

[Chris Ryan]

Details. Genuinely missed moments in there that I missed. We can get to those. But, Joe, let's start with you.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

What was your favorite moment of the episode?

[Joanna Robinson]

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[Joanna Robinson]

Mallory probably already knows this answer. There's a dance scene in this episode and I just thought it was phenomenal. I thought the dancing was incredible. I thought everything to do with Lyonel Baratheon's party in his tent and using antlers and all of his decorating and all of that sort of stuff was incredible. And then the falling star moment that you mentioned at the end, but I think you just asked my favorite moment and I'm cheating already and smuggling a bunch of things in here.

[Mallory Rubin]

But we do it here.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think like big picture for book fans. Almost every single line of dialogue. Mallory saw this. I went through with a highlighter in my book, almost every single line of dialogue that's in the book is in the show.

[Chris Ryan]

Ira Parker it's nice work if you can get it. It turns out you just take a photo of it with your phone and be like, here you go.

[Joanna Robinson]

Unlike except for the Lionel Baratheon stuff, which is completely added and is incredible. Like all of that stuff is expanded. And so I was both really excited to see how faithful it was and. And then what his team can do when they want to expand into a character.

[Chris Ryan]

So Lionel, like, the dancing stuff's not in there, or even just the Conversation Pavilion party where he's talking about burning people.

[Joanna Robinson]

Like, we wouldn't have met Lionel Baratheon in this episode if we were going by the book.

[Chris Ryan]

Mal, what about you? What was your favorite moment of the episode?

[Mallory Rubin]

So I figured Joe would go with Lionel. I think it's hard to dispute that that's the scene and sequence of the episode for the reasons Joe mentioned. And I agree that the faithful nature of the adaptation is. Is really heartening and cool and gives me, like, a lot of faith for the series overall. But the additions felt so, like, energized. I am torn between two picks here. One would be the Falling Star, which, like, made me tear up just seeing Dunk and Egg together. Our hedge knight and his diminutive squire, Egg. Like, I think we here in the.

[Joanna Robinson]

World, little homie, I believe is the.

[Mallory Rubin]

Nomenclature and I think specifically the choice, because I've always loved the Falling Star, the Locke moment in the book, but the subtle little sh. To take an inner monologue moment for Dunk in the book and give that to Egg. Because as a squire, Egg will be learning a lot from his knight. However, Dunk has a lot to learn from Egg, too. And Egg not only being a little, like, impudent smartass, but sharing some wisdom I think is great. And then the tie has to be. And I know this will paint Aleyah to hear the brief beat of the classic Thrones theme into Sir Duncan, the tall, like, hippo spraying shit out of his ass. I remember once being at the zoo and a hippo, it just, like, they really can project.

[Joanna Robinson]

Didn't Chris say no anecdotes.

[Chris Ryan]

It's fine.

[Mallory Rubin]

Not since Yellowjackets season one have we spent so much time watching someone take a shit by a tree. It was such a clever little way to say, okay, yeah, like, this isn't the thing. We are a part of this world in this legacy that you love, but it isn't the exact thing that you've gotten before. And we want you to know that right away. Which I just thought was, like, despite.

[Chris Ryan]

My aforementioned lack of interest in people telling me stories about, like, a particularly bad experience that they've had in the bathroom. Yeah, that was also my favorite moment.

[Mallory Rubin]

I know, it's really good.

[Chris Ryan]

Here's the thing. You want to know why? Because it's A show ruiner.

[Mallory Rubin]

If it doesn't work, if they.

[Chris Ryan]

There's. If you're going to invoke the Game of Thrones theme song. And I gotta say square that I am. When they started playing it, I was like, oh, shit, yeah. Game of Thrones music's playing.

[Joanna Robinson]

But the rest of the Dan Romer score was so good.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's giving me bear McCreary like rings of Power with a sprinkle of Battlestar Bagpipe and some Outlander and a great, like, high fantasy way.

[Joanna Robinson]

I thought it was like more like Disney animated Robin Hood. You know what I mean? It was just, like, incredible.

[Chris Ryan]

We're going to the original text. I just thought tonally what it did was provided a thesis statement for the show. So it's just like, this is the height of, you know, knightly values, and we're gonna get deep into the Throne stuff, but we're not taking ourselves so seriously that we can't make fun of some of this stuff. I think Game of Thrones, the original series, probably offset they. They, like, subverted expectations with character deaths or with characters having sex with each other that perhaps shouldn't have or things.

[Mallory Rubin]

That people who are related.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, perhaps. Well, they were endgame spoiler. They that, like. They basically, like, offset, like, your expectations. Subvert your expectations that way. This one, it seems like maybe there's gonna be more offsetting subversion by tone. And I love that.

[Joanna Robinson]

I was thinking a lot about Peter cluffing in that moment because, you know, Ira Parker, the showrunner, has talked about how Peter is so perfect for this role because, like, Dunk, he felt so anxious and insecure to take on, like, such a massive role inside of this property. So I was just thinking of him filming that scene, being like, am I really about to take this?

[Chris Ryan]

Am I ever gonna get another job?

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Is this it for me, taking this shit on my first episod, this Game of Thrones show?

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. So you talked a little bit about the books, Joe, and we're like, this is a different kind of Game of Thrones series to recap and to talk about, I think, because we're maybe not going to have as many data points, perhaps not as many mysteries to solve or to tease out. There are some, but we'll get to that. But this is a little bit more of an appreciation for the depth and the kind of tapestry that gets woven, I think, rather than, like, oh, God, we have to decipher a dream that's been had or something like that, at least in this first episode. So Tell me a little bit about these books. What are they and why did George write them? And I want to hear from both of you what your relationship is to them.

[Joanna Robinson]

So three novellas currently exist. This season's gonna be based on the Hedge Night, the first one, which was written in 1998. I was in high school when this book was written.

[Mallory Rubin]

It came out before the second. A Song of Ice and Fire book. Yeah, the first novella.

[Joanna Robinson]

And, you know, this is. This is. George R.R. martin just wanted to play in this playground that he has created for himself. And it's clear when you read these novellas, which are incredible short reads, really, really fun, light in tone, like, great stuff that he hadn't figured everything out yet. So there's like, a few inconsistencies here and there. But I think the point why those books are so great and why I recommend them to a lot of people is that there's such a good introduction to Westeros. I think some people feel intimidated by the Song of Ice and Fire books, by their length by George R.R.

[Chris Ryan]

Martin might feel intimidated by those books.

[Joanna Robinson]

By the depth of lore and. Yeah. So especially thinking about it in relation to that Hollywood reporter George R.R. martin piece that came out this week where he's talking about being behind on writing, but. Oh, actually he made some good progress on two Duncan Egg novellas, and that's very exciting. And that's what I want George to do, which is just write these novellas which are easier for him to just grease them.

[Chris Ryan]

Harrington, do the Future of Jon Snow. Don't worry about it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Sure.

[Mallory Rubin]

That'll be the notes on that after the.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's a great idea. But he's. He's apparently given them a bunch of outlines for some other novellas. He's. He's out, like, made significant progress on two of them. So this could go for 10 seasons, 12 seasons or three seasons. We'll see what happens. But there are definitely three novellas, and I think what makes them special is they're approachable. Their POV is so different to the POV of A Song of Ice and Fire. We're with Dunk, who's from Fleasbottom, and we're with him in every scene of this episode. Right. And I just love that different look inside of this world, what it means to look at it from that point of view. Malorie and I are huge lore hounds. We love talking about lore, but I just love that these books aren't burdened by lore. And so everyone's invited to play Mal for you.

[Chris Ryan]

Anything you Want to add about the books themselves?

[Mallory Rubin]

I just cosigned what Joe said. I find them more delightful every time I return to them. Like, I've always loved them, but it's been so fun, you know, from. From the moment we knew the first trailer was coming at New York Comic Con in October, like, gearing up for the show, when the casting was announced and we saw who were, you know, the performers who are going to be embodying these characters. Like, it's always a great feeling to have an excuse to fall back into a world you love or to be introduced to it for the first time.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right.

[Mallory Rubin]

And I think that the Hedge knight, the Sworn sword, the mystery knight, they're all wonderful. I think that my favorite one tends to be the one I'm reading in real time. I think I would if, like, forced at arrow or sword point, pick the Hedge Knight, which this first season is based on. But I have a great affection and fondness for the other two.

[Joanna Robinson]

I would pick the sword. Sword.

[Mallory Rubin]

I would. It's sworn. Sworn Sword is amazing. And there's some thematic richness in there that, like, I already can't wait for the three of us to get to talk about. Yeah, maybe this time next year. I mean, they're. They're in production on that already. And I think, like, to Jo's point, the accessibility, the tone, the charm, you know, in the run up to the series, I think as we're covering it, we're gonna talk a lot about noble ideals.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right.

[Mallory Rubin]

What does it mean to be a knight? The virtue at hand there, but also, it's a Game of Thrones story. And so while I think there is an abundance of charm and hope, it can be dark, it can be scary. Even the characters who are driven toward some sort of pursuit of real, genuine honor, justice, purpose, meaning whatever the case may be, are gonna have pulls on their ambition or their conscience or any number of other things. And I love that about it.

[Joanna Robinson]

The.

[Mallory Rubin]

The idea of the hedge knight. Right. Just this figure who, for many in Westeros, they look at a hedge knight. We get a lot of this in the first episode. And it's like, you're so sad you have to call a hedge home. You know, you've got nothing. I love you're saying you. But the whores like to say red calling egg. It was very tough. It should return at even fall. But, like, you know, Egg, he's like, your rope is. Your sword belt is made of rope. And now there's the aspect of that where it's like, Ser Arlen's leather sword belt literally won't fit around. Yeah, but also, what else does he have sold for leather, baby? I mean, great passage from a later novella that is, in essence, you know, big hands, big feet. I bet you're big everywhere. File that one away for our subsequent coverage of this wonderful story. But, yeah, so it's like, are you a robber knight? Are you a baron knight? Can you be trusted? And donk this embrace of, like, the pure aspect of life as a hedge knight. But also, he's like, I gotta get some coin. This is my chance. I gotta figure it out. Maybe I can find glory. Maybe I can make a name for myself. And that could all be encompassed in a tale that is succinct and full of charm. And this odd couple core pairing. It's just. They're wonderful stories.

[Joanna Robinson]

Chris, where are you on audiobook life?

[Chris Ryan]

I am still dedicated to reading books, and so not. Not a huge uptake.

[Joanna Robinson]

I want to do a quick psa, which we've talked about on House of R for the audiobook. These particular audiobooks are narrated by Harry Lloyd, who played Viserys on the first season of Game of Thrones, and they're just some of the best audiobooks I've ever heard. So, I mean, I know you can read a novella if you want to, but why do it when we're here to tell you everything?

[Chris Ryan]

I'm committed to the bit you're dedicated to, the bit.

[Mallory Rubin]

You will never read a word that George R.R. martin has written. Just as a matter of fact.

[Joanna Robinson]

Do you skim over his quotes in, like, profiles or something like that?

[Chris Ryan]

I love his interviews.

[Joanna Robinson]

You love his blog. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

I thought I would ask you one thing about the books, though, which is, you know, the Game of Thrones novels, from my understanding, are each chapter is written from the POV of a different character. That actually seems to be one of the reasons that George is tripping up and finishing these novels, is that he's introduced what 21 different POV characters got away from him. Then I write one thing and I realize I've screwed something up, so I have to go back and fix this in somebody else's pov. This show did something really nice for me, which is the show itself is shot from a pov, like the show itself. The characters, like Lyonel, for instance, appear the way they would appear to dunk across the room. Yeah, across the room. But also as this kind of like, regal man of mystery, rather than, of course, there's Lyonel Baratheon. Now, let's just go through his timeline here and go through his family tree and who will come from him and who came before him. It's more like Stranger in a Strange Land. Kind of reminds me a little bit of Deadwood, you know, like. Well, Deadwood did do a lot of POV switching between Al and Seth and everything. But the idea of, like, arriving at this new place and everybody you get introduced to is kind of through the steps that these characters are taking to meet them, I thought was just really solid. It's something that Game of Thrones as a show didn't. It did, but it didn't do, like, super religiously, like, you know.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right. You would sometimes get it with, like, what is King's Landing from Arya's point of view or something like that.

[Chris Ryan]

Certainly, Danny would leave a room and then people would keep talking and the camera would stay with them.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right. And Ira Parker's commitment to if Dunk's not in the room we're not in is really, really smart. The books are. We're inside of Dunk's head in the books, and they've done a bunch of brilliant, adaptive work of taking inner monologue and making it things he says to his horses or, you know, like the.

[Mallory Rubin]

You know, incredible horse guy. Sir Duncan, the top love.

[Joanna Robinson]

He's just, like, muttering his inner thoughts to the horse instead. But we're still inside of his. His mind and his world. I was thinking a lot also of the framing, the effort that they, you know, they really wanted to cast someone tall for Duncan, and they did, but they didn't cast. They cast Peter. They love him. George was like, he's not quite as tall as what, you know. So we have him bumping into doorways. We're lowering the height of. Of the tent so it's like brushing, you know, his. And then we're seating, like, we're casting shorter actors around him. We're seating people around him. Like when he's first talking to Lionel.

[Chris Ryan]

Shorter actors, so actors.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Well, when he's. When he's first talking to Lionel, he goes up to the table and everyone is either seated or, like, leaning around him. So he's just like this wide shot, and he's just so tall in that shot. But it's something they have to kind of manufacture.

[Mallory Rubin]

The way the cups look in his hand. It's like he's got a catcher's mitt for. For a hand.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, it's really. It's movie magic.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's great. Lionel is supposed to be also gigantic. So they have that live shaded with, like, not as big as I thought it would be. As I thought, it's like, yeah, because you're not 6 11. You're pretty tall, but you're not 6 11. I agree. They've done a great job with that. And I. I think I like what you're saying a lot about the perspective and rooting us in Dunk's experience and through his eyes. And, like, one of the passages in the book, and this is incorporated into the conversation he has with Lionel where he's like, what chance do I have? And Lionel gives that great, oh, you have no chance. It's a great honor to test yourself. Dunk was strong and quick. This is from the hedge knight. And his weight and reach were in his favor, but he did not believe for a moment that his skills were the equal of these others. And so you have him voicing a version of that, but to your point, you feel it in every step he takes throughout the episode. You know when he's talking to Raymond, and Raymond is like, yeah, I'm a squire. And Dunk gives him that look up and down. He's like, you fight pretty well for a squire. Now, that comes from the text where Dunk is like, well, if he's a squire, what business do I have being a knight? Like, one of us is a fool. But he doesn't need to. Even though, as we said, like, a lot of lines are pulled directly from the text, he doesn't literally need to voice every beat of internal monologue for us to understand. I'm a fish out of water. I'm in a place where I don't belong. And part of what I can achieve is making people think that I belong here based on being here and what I do.

[Chris Ryan]

One of the small miracles of this show is that, unlike, say, House of the Dragon, where I feel like I had to do even without reading any of House of the Dragon or the books, it was based on research just to even, like, sure, figure out, like, who this guy is.

[Mallory Rubin]

You were deep in the wiki. You were such a guy, too. Deep in the wiki.

[Chris Ryan]

I was also like, what am I signing up for? Like, I just kind of want to make sure we have an endpoint.

[Joanna Robinson]

Well.

[Chris Ryan]

Well, with this, I was gonna ask you what you thought a viewer might want to know contextually about the world's point in.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Chronology that we're at.

[Mallory Rubin]

Love a B.

[Chris Ryan]

But I have to just say it didn't matter to me. Like, for all I knew, this was happening, like, adjacent to Game of Thrones itself. And it really did give a sense of, like, depth and width to the entire kind of fictional universe that he has built out. But tell me a little bit about Joe. You can start, like, what we need to know about, like, when this is in relation to the first season of Game of Thrones and, like, what's going on in the world at this time.

[Joanna Robinson]

We're 100 years before game of Thrones, but fashion hasn't changed much in Westeros, so don't worry about it. It's true.

[Mallory Rubin]

They keep it consistent. The trends don't move a lot.

[Chris Ryan]

Fashion is a little bit more regal. In House of the Dragon.

[Joanna Robinson]

In House of the Dragon, yeah. Which takes place far earlier. And so I think the most important thing historically to talk about is what's going on with Targaryens right now, which is that they don't have any dragons. Yes, we get a dragon puppet in this episode.

[Chris Ryan]

Sort of spoiler for House of the Dragon.

[Joanna Robinson]

Or not.

[Mallory Rubin]

I don't think it is. I will push back on that because we talked about this, actually. No, no, no, no. But I think game. Real anxiety about this when we broke the trailer down, like, fuck is this now the show? It's clear there are no dragons in the show. So, like, it is what it is. But, yeah, Game of Thrones, that's like.

[Joanna Robinson]

Game of Thrones starts, there are no dragons.

[Mallory Rubin]

There are no dragons.

[Joanna Robinson]

So guess what? 100 years before, no dragons.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay?

[Joanna Robinson]

And so thinking about the Targaryens have just quelled a rebellion.

[Mallory Rubin]

Blackfire.

[Joanna Robinson]

The Blackfyre Rebellion, which was also rumored.

[Chris Ryan]

To have been a spin off at some point, right?

[Joanna Robinson]

They might. They might yet do it. It might interact with this show. We'll see. But, like, can I just say, the Blackfyre Rebellion, one of the coolest things that happens in the history of Westeros. Imagine you're a Targaryen bastard and you're like, you know what? I'm gonna. You know what? I'm gonna name my family after the sword. We're the Blackfyres. Like, that's.

[Mallory Rubin]

Would you have gone with Dark Sister instead? No.

[Joanna Robinson]

Blackfyre all the way, baby. Anyway, so they quelled the Blackfyre Rebellion, but the Targaryen rule is quite shaky at this moment, right? They. They don't have their WMDs, right? They've just quelled a rebellion from inside of their own family tree, kind of barely. And that was just, what, 15 years before the events of the show was that rebellion. And so when Plummer, between spitting flem into a tankard says, there are princes about, right? The Targaryens are coming to this tourney, and it's a backwater tourney. So the fact that the Targaryens feel like they need to be the Royalty feels like they need to be at this tourney is very much like, insecure power, legacy maintenance. Exactly. Because that is going to kiss the babies and shake some hands.

[Chris Ryan]

I was going to ask. There's a plumber line that's kind of a throwaway, where he says something like, this is the Reach, not the Riverlands. What's he saying? Is he like, this is Philly, not New York. Like, what is kind of.

[Mallory Rubin]

I mean, that's a. It's interesting to continue to glean more insights into how you view Philly. You think Philly is the Reach? I'll have to reflect on that later. I mean, yeah, I think that was like a minor. It's a way just again to say like. And this is one of the fun things about the premiere and the story. Look around at all the familiar sigils, right, we're in the Reach. This is at Ashford Meadow House. Ashford. Lord Ashford. Throw an attorney for his daughter's 13th name day. But we see just from watching this first episode and as Dunk is scanning the town that pops up overnight, you know, we've got our Baratheons, we've got our Dondarrians. There's Tyrell, right? We know a lot of these families. Like, more of them are there than should be given the stature of House Ashford. They are vassal lords to the Tyrells. The Tyrells are in control of the Reach. A lot of it is familiar. You know, the show is sandwiched between, as Jo said, Hot D and Thrones. But a lot of the families and key figures are familiar to us. Why are they all here? For all sorts of reasons. If you're in the Reach, you're going to be there. If you're in the Westerlands, you're going to be there. The Riverlands and the Riverlands, I mean, the Brackens and the Blackwoods, they're still fighting, you know, the.

[Joanna Robinson]

Don't worry, they're still fighting.

[Mallory Rubin]

Has killed Lord Blackwood three years before this, like, the tensions are high. The Reach, they still think as Plummer, with his delightful little Ashford chair bit indicates. This is a life of luxury and the fresh fruit and wine.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right.

[Mallory Rubin]

But I think the key thing for the time frame is what Judge said. The it's not just that the dragons are gone, it's that they still live in memory. Like Ser Arlen Saw had seen the Last dragon. So it's recent enough. And I. I would say, like, that is a more precarious position for the Targaryens to be in actually than a distant memory. It's like to have REM for people who are alive to remember what your might and your strength looked like. But for you to not possess it in that form is a tenuous field on which to try to rule. Right. And then also there's like something like, you know, the king right now is. Is Darren ii, Darren the Good who fought his bastard brother, great bastard brother demon Blackfire. Sick fucking name. As Joe said in the Blackfyre rebellion. And he's the king who finally fully brought Dorne into the fold. And on the one hand, it's like, this is a titanic achievement in the history of Westeros. He marries a Martell. We'll talk about some of the hair color of some of the Targaryens we meet after in the rest of the season. But not everybody loves that and is super into it or into the preferential treatment that Dorne is getting through those political alliances. So whether people think that actually Daemon Blackfyre should have been king or why are you like, giving Dorne X, Y and Z or any number of other things, there's. It's Westeros. Someone's always bitching about something. But the Targaryens are trying to meet, maintain a hold after another call from inside the house. Like, we are still covering a show about a Targaryen civil war.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes.

[Mallory Rubin]

The Targaryens love a civil war. They love a challenge from within. And the rest of the realm is always.

[Chris Ryan]

They also love to marry within. So that's.

[Joanna Robinson]

A great point.

[Mallory Rubin]

The Blackfyre rebellions, like, hang over all of these novellas. This one less just because of. To your point, like, how much.

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't think George hadn't figured it out yet. Yeah. But eventually it was for sure.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's just like a shadow looming over the realm.

[Chris Ryan]

And in the novellas, is Duncan conversant in that stuff? Like, does it come up.

[Joanna Robinson]

They all are. Because everyone feel everyone fought in. In this rebellion.

[Chris Ryan]

So, okay.

[Joanna Robinson]

The king was divided essentially.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay. Because I was curious about when he's going around trying to like stump for, you know, he's like, I need somebody to sign off of me being a knight.

[Joanna Robinson]

You get.

[Chris Ryan]

You might remember Sir Arlen. And he mentions like to, you know, he's like, my, my, my.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Vulture King.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, yeah. Right. They're all like, I don't remember. You know, why are tournaments important in this world. So it's a great, great setting for a TV show.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

But I was curious what is transacted at these things.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. So I would say there's a couple things to say. There would say George R.R. martin, personally, one of his favorite books ever is Ivan Ho, which has this great tourney. And so he's like, great movie. Chasing the Ivanhoe High, basically. But if you think about the way tourneys have been used inside of his storytelling before, the biggest one outside of this one is the tourney at Harrenhal. Right.

[Mallory Rubin]

Which is Rhaegar and Lyanna.

[Joanna Robinson]

Basically where Robert's Rebellion started, where Robert Baratheon got very mad that his fiance Lyanna got crowned the Queen of Love and Beauty by a married Prince Targaryen. Right. So that happened at tourney. A tourney is a place for all these houses outside of the battlefield to mix and mingle. And we got a quote from one of our faves, Rhaenys, in House of the Dragon, Season 1, Episode 1. She's talking about the tourney that happens in that series premiere. And she says, these nights are as green as summer grass. None have known real war. Their lord sent them to a tourney field with fists full of steel and balls full of seed. And we expect them to act with honor and grace. It's a marvel that war didn't break out at first blood. So that's not true of these guys because many of them fought in a blackfyre rebellion. They've been to war. But it's play act. We're play acting war. Right. And all the houses get to fight each other without going to war with each other. So it's war of pageantry sort of thing.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. You know, I like thinking about the fact that each show now has either prominently like this is, this show is just set. This first season is set during a tournament or just early in the runs. Featured attorney, like to the hot D point. That was the beginning. You know, Viserys is like gonna finally have that male heir.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right.

[Mallory Rubin]

Let's. It's not too soon to start the tourney.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right.

[Mallory Rubin]

That's a really fun thing at the beginning of Hot D, obviously very intense with the way that's edited in intercut. But of course, in Game of Thrones, we have, you know, the hands tourney that Ned does not want. And we get fun little discussions about, like, on the one hand, tournaments are incredibly expensive, but on the other hand, they're a source of coin too. It's this town that you're Seeing in this premiere, like the merchants, the puppet show, the whores. Right.

[Joanna Robinson]

Literal cottage industry. Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's a bustling area of activity for merchants and for commerce, but it's also a chance for glory. It's a chance to prove yourself. And I like what we can learn about a given character by how they feel. Feel about that.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right?

[Mallory Rubin]

So Dunk is like, there's this. This kind of beat throughout the first novella of, like, the Chance Might not Come Again. Like, I must risk. All right. He's been with Sir Arlen since he was a boy in Flea Bottom. That's been his life, squiring for Sir Arlen. And now he's like, I'm on my own. I have Sweet Foot, Thunder and Chestnut and a lot of things to tell them and not a lot else figured out. I can make a name for myself.

[Joanna Robinson]

Upward mobility for him. Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

But think about what Ned said to Jamie, right? This was on my mind, actually, when Sir Stefan was like, come, come spar with me. And then Raymond says later to Dunk, like, he basically likes to spar with people so that he can break them and hurt them before he might, but also to study them, to learn about them. What in When. When Jamie's like, you know, we're going to. We're going to. We're going to see it, the hands turning. And Ned's like, I don't. I don't fight in tournaments because when I fight a man for real, I don't want him to know what I can do.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right.

[Mallory Rubin]

And so that is just such a radically different perspective than somebody who is out there just for fun or something.

[Joanna Robinson]

To show up your sick dragon Helm, if you're Daemon Target.

[Chris Ryan]

I mean, for this tournament, the helms are. These guys are battled like they have just fought in the rebellion or in some other battle.

[Mallory Rubin]

But some of them are like, okay, maybe it's experience, but for a lot of the guys out there, it's like, I want to be in the songs. I. And we. We talked about this on our trailer breakdown, but we both got a kick out of the first poster. The log line was like, you know, a tall tale that became legend. And so much of Dunk's story and so much of the spirit of this show, even in one episode here, is rooted in what does it mean to, like, we got Serwyn of the. Of the Mirror Shield, you know, in Tanzel's public show. This is an age, a fabled age of heroes tale and a figure who like certain things that you'll hear about him in the story could not possibly be true about him based on when he lived. And that's how myths and legends morph and evolve over time. And then what Lionel says right about, like 4,000 years ago, the first joust on this field, and men cannot have devised it. So much of this episode lived in that, like, age of heroes long ago. Where were the myths that we tell each other now born? And characters who hear them want to become that myth for the next generation.

[Joanna Robinson]

Like watching Dunk, who, when he's asked is that short for Duncan? He's like, sure. And in the book, it's clear he doesn't know. Yeah. So Duncan is not a name that he's familiar with. And then Lionel Baratheon inside this episode is like, be tall. So he's like the tall. Okay. Duncan the Tall is a name that was just sort of cobbled together from what different people said to him inside of this episode. So we're watching a myth be born inside of this story. What other aspects of the myth will we accrue over the next few episodes?

[Chris Ryan]

Now, the Thrones novels are told in POV style. The House of the Dragon stuff is based essentially on, like, a historical, but not always reliable, multiple.

[Mallory Rubin]

Multiple sources.

[Chris Ryan]

Would you guys characterize these novellas as reliable, like, or.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think in that they are so firmly rooted in one person's pov, they can't be entirely reliable. But I think we're supposed to take sort of like historical detail as. As fact.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay. And so. But the novellas are from Dunk's point of view.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. In his head.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Obviously there's a second character here. We'll obviously get to him as we learn more about him. He seems to. A bit of something to him.

[Joanna Robinson]

What did you think of this performance? This is like a really tough. Like a child actor is like a tough to cast.

[Chris Ryan]

The thing that jumped out at me was this is why TV is good, is because you meet people that you haven't seen before, like, and they. They make stars. They don't hire stars. And we've gotten very far away from that for. For better and worse over the last, like, 10 years, thanks to Nicole Kidman and Matthew McConaughey and all sorts of people who have come off the big.

[Joanna Robinson]

Screen coming for Kidman.

[Chris Ryan]

No, I mean, I think. I just think it' indicative of Nicole Kibman brings a whole series of baggage and experiences that we've had with her for the last 30 years when she takes a TV role.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

People playing Duncan Egg we do not have know anything about Them.

[Mallory Rubin]

One notable exception, which, you know, I've mentioned before a few times, I think Peter Claffy is just fantastic as Dunk. Like, almost better than you could have dared to hope for. Dunk is a canonical virgin. Not. No shade, just. Just a fact. Not sure if you could tell from the way that he looked.

[Chris Ryan]

No shade directly to me.

[Joanna Robinson]

No shade to you. A canonical version. No, He's. He's supposed to be, like, 15 or 16 also.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, that's just often the case in the Throne show.

[Joanna Robinson]

They've aged him up. Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Peter Claffy in season two of Bad Sisters bagged Eve Hewson's character, and I.

[Chris Ryan]

Was supposed to leave this guy. That's good intel. Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Like, come on. Other than that, no notes. I thought the egg was fantastic.

[Chris Ryan]

It's also, like, it's really smart to make the two main characters relative unknowns, aside from Bad Sisters heads, and then populate the outskirts of the show with, like, incredibly seasoned YouTubers.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, folks, you've seen actors.

[Chris Ryan]

So Daniel Ames owns the six minutes of screen time that he has. But, like, I'm very excited to see the other people that they bring into the series. As people have watched the trailers know, Finn Bennett is. Is in this show. I'm a big fan of his Birdie of True Detective. Very pumped for that. What else do I want to ask you guys?

[Joanna Robinson]

You want to talk about Lionel Baratheon?

[Mallory Rubin]

Let's do it. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

What's up with the horns?

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, House Baratheon, they have. That's their sigil, right? Yeah, it's a lot of horns. It's very Gaston and Beauty and the Beast of him.

[Mallory Rubin]

I think we should do every subsequent episode of Talk the Thrones in the Antler. Helm, I think it's frankly a derelict duty that we didn't.

[Joanna Robinson]

Today you say helm, I should say it's quite crown, like. And this is what's very important about the Baratheons, is that when the Targaryens conquered the house, Baratheon is like the first of the oldest houses. And you will remember that Robert Baratheon eventually becomes the first non Targaryen king after Aegon's conquest. So the Baratheons have always been like.

[Chris Ryan]

Like it should be us.

[Joanna Robinson]

Should we be king, though. And so the fact that Lionel's here with a giant antler crown is audacious.

[Mallory Rubin]

It is bold, I would say. Not as bold as one other aspect, which was to incorporate the antlers on the hilt of the dagger. I just thought seemed like a safety hazard. If you leave he's very drunk as he knows.

[Joanna Robinson]

Dancing. Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Lean over once. That's an eye. It's an eye gouged out. I thought that he was fucking amazing. And I think the decision to allow us and Dunk to spend more time with him sooner is like, kind of a masterstroke. Okay, fantastic. Just because, like, fleshing out in the.

[Chris Ryan]

Novellas, it takes a while to meet him.

[Joanna Robinson]

Or he's just a much, much smaller character in the novellas. It's not that he's not important, it's just the novellas are so lean that you're with Dunk and Egg and not very many people outside of that. And so what they've decided to do in this season is while going, still keeping it lean. Six episodes, less than an hour each. They're like, what if we get to know Raymond Fossoway a little better or Lionel Baratheon a little better, et cetera, et cetera. And so it's also like a really.

[Chris Ryan]

Nice, like, off speed pitch to have Han Solo come in midway through this episode and just be like, I drink and screw and like dance and like, we'll.

[Mallory Rubin]

We'll go, man.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, we'll mix it up a little bit here.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. The Laughing Storm, one of the sickest monikers in Westerosi history. We've got a couple great ones coming in this season of tv, but the Laughing Storm is just like, hot.

[Joanna Robinson]

I really think it's top tier. But do you think the implication that the story that he's telling is that he, like, steered into a storm and was laughing all the while while he did? Whereas actually he's called the Laughing Storm because he makes fun of all the people on the tourney field.

[Mallory Rubin]

Beats them.

[Joanna Robinson]

He beats them. Takes their hands, their jewels off their. And laughs at them.

[Mallory Rubin]

Laughs in their face. So he got a favorite of the comments.

[Joanna Robinson]

You got kind of like a sicker backstory inside of this episode.

[Mallory Rubin]

Like the salt. You taste the salt on the air. There's something so poetic and almost hypnotic about listening to the tell the story. But I love the other thing I loved about it was it puts him and Dunk into a plane of shared understanding. I want to test myself. I want to prove myself. And then we are pulled right back out of that. When Dunk is basically like, easy for you to say, things are different for you. If you lose out there, it affects you not at all unless you take a wound or you're grievously injured, which.

[Chris Ryan]

Of course is always a risk of the journey. I'm out all My money, I'm out.

[Mallory Rubin]

He will have nothing. That will be it.

[Joanna Robinson]

He can't even get his horse back.

[Chris Ryan]

No.

[Joanna Robinson]

What I loved about. There's something poetic about this drunken lout lord, and it reminded me a lot of Tyrion. Right. Like, drunk Tyrion. But also that poetry, that lyricism is there.

[Chris Ryan]

And also, like, maybe a keen observer of human behavior and, like, being able to. To see, like, there's something different about this guy.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Even if he's like, it's just one night. I'm hammered. Like, we're. We're just talking here. But to, like, spot him, ask him a question, be amused by him, and then spend the evening with him, but also try and stomp on his feet.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. That was great. If I were to ask for anything in addition, inside of that tent scene, I would have said, can we get a longer montage of Dunk just eating stuff? Because he gets incredible.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Joanna Robinson]

He gets the giant, like, turkey leg or whatever that he's eating and then, like, a pastry. But I was like, we could have just cut to Dunk, like, my favorite scamming food the whole night.

[Mallory Rubin]

When Lionel's like, what did you bring me? And he, like, quickly looks at the, like, half eaten pastry in his hand, he's like. And then Lionel just kind of, you know, every man either wants your help or your head. And Dunk is like, I just wanted supper. By the way, one note on Raymond Fostwaite, a character we love, kind of fucked Dunk here. He's like, you hungry? Let me bring you into Lionel Baratheon's tent. Gonna fill your goblet, and then I'm out. And it's on you to figure out how to navigate this platform.

[Chris Ryan]

Greenwald does that.

[Mallory Rubin]

I'm all on board with not saying goodbye to people at a party, actually. I think it ends up adding, like, 90 minutes.

[Chris Ryan]

I just did this to you the other day. You did it to me.

[Mallory Rubin]

And then I spent the next 90 minutes wishing that I had followed your lead and your counsel.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

What a lesson that was. The scene was great. Will we be recreating the dance on Instagram?

[Joanna Robinson]

No, but can I just say. Can I just be on brand and. And add one? I like to. Yes, and. But I'm no budding that. But I'm gonna add a musical reference and say, this was very. The, like, bottle dance. L'. Chaim. Fiddler on the Roof was like, the way this was shot, and it just filled me with so much fan are gonna come out of this so really good.

[Chris Ryan]

Those guys dancing to call me maybe. Whatever it is. Lionel's.

[Joanna Robinson]

Lionel's like, whirling dervish skirt, like, moment was just like. Really?

[Mallory Rubin]

The earring, the hair.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Any thoughts on the horrors, Chris?

[Chris Ryan]

They seem like nice ladies. Good sense of humor.

[Joanna Robinson]

Big episode for gingers.

[Chris Ryan]

What's up with the gal with the coins on her eyes?

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, she's pretend. It's a very Roman and Tabitha from Succession. You're meant to be dead. Sorry. The morgue is close.

[Chris Ryan]

That was what I was. Is that somebody's kink?

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, seems like.

[Joanna Robinson]

It seems like I want to.

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, I don't want to say into a microphone. I want to pretend I'm fucking a dead person.

[Joanna Robinson]

The character is that cliff for social.

[Mallory Rubin]

To be clear, the character in the show.

[Joanna Robinson]

Joni's like, thumbs up.

[Mallory Rubin]

But, you know, we've seen the painted eyes on Tywin. A dead character.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think Chris is merely asking why a dead girl.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, but I was like, it was for someone's kink, is what I was asking.

[Mallory Rubin]

You know, as Littlefinger would tell you to any man with enough coin in their purse, not for us, but in the world of Game of Thrones, you can figure it out. I think.

[Joanna Robinson]

So to be clear, we're just clipping that one part. Okay, great.

[Mallory Rubin]

I thought that there are not a lot of women in the hedge night. Correct. Okay. Not a lot of women. Tanzell is there Again, the tournament is.

[Chris Ryan]

For Lord pass the Bechdel test.

[Joanna Robinson]

Deeply not.

[Mallory Rubin]

And so unless two of the horses.

[Joanna Robinson]

Are women and they're like, nickering to each other at some point, perhaps Benny.

[Mallory Rubin]

Daisy Red very much in. Obviously, Game of Thrones features more the women, but very much in the, like, Ra's tradition here of we are going to introduce a whore into the story who is not only a source of humor and charm.

[Chris Ryan]

That's the noble. We go with whore in this story.

[Mallory Rubin]

Just adhering to the canon.

[Chris Ryan]

I just wanted to be on the right page.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

That's all. Did you feel a particular pull toward either of the phosphoids? So Stefan or Raymond?

[Chris Ryan]

I like how Stefan talked his.

[Mallory Rubin]

This is an incredible. This is really akin to Chris being like, I'm Team Green during House of the Dragon.

[Chris Ryan]

I just liked how Stefan was like, I'm full court pressing up 15.

[Mallory Rubin]

Not in like a minute left.

[Chris Ryan]

You know what I mean? Like, he's like, I'm. There's no breaks here. So I enjoyed that.

[Mallory Rubin]

Interesting.

[Chris Ryan]

My last bit that I wanted to ask you guys about was about the falling star.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Which is a perfect encapsulation of why this show is good. I think you can watch that and just feel it on its merits.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yep.

[Chris Ryan]

But I gather and slash sort of remember falling stars being pretty important.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Same thing.

[Mallory Rubin]

Not really.

[Joanna Robinson]

But, like.

[Mallory Rubin]

Symbolism everywhere. It's fine.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's fine. No, here's here. I'll give you something.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay.

[Joanna Robinson]

And I will say, as Mal was mentioning earlier, when Duncan sees the falling star, it's an internal monologue. The luck is mine alone.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

To change it to the luck is ours alone as a conversation between Dunk and Egg, I think was, like, a really good addition.

[Chris Ryan]

It was also the idea that all these rich guys with the grooves over their heads, they're looking at silk, they don't know about. Like, Zelda's of the world.

[Mallory Rubin]

What a great way to reposition the it's such a classic Thrones wear it like armor moment. Right. Okay. Other people are gonna say, even, like, sweet Egg is like, I want to put up your pavilion. Yeah. Trees Leak is straight from the novella. So good.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

I would have put up your pavilion, but, like, I couldn't find one. And Dunk can't afford a pavilion, so he doesn't have one. And, you know, in the novella, he's kind of like, I am not even. I would not feel like, comfortable here.

[Joanna Robinson]

He's like, they're all gonna make fun of me. And, like.

[Mallory Rubin]

Or they'd be nice to me, and that would be worse. Right. And then in the show, he kind of like Moses through, and he's like, I gotta go find, like, a quieter accommodation. Right. This idea that the lack of your own pavilion, your tent. He's wearing Ser Arlan's winged chalice shield. You know, he's carrying another man's arms and sigil, like, all this stuff. Trying to figure out who he is and where he fits in the world.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, that sword is his by. Right.

[Mallory Rubin]

Fits better in his hand than it ever fit in Sir Arlen's.

[Joanna Robinson]

What a weird thing to say. Sir Stefan falls away.

[Mallory Rubin]

That's a weird thing to say. Sir Steffen was right. An easy, weird and conspicuous thing to say.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's my sword, and I'm supposed to.

[Mallory Rubin]

Have it take some Amodium AD and then just, like, take a deep breath. No, I'll show you.

[Joanna Robinson]

He's like, I have anxiety, and I have anxiety about my anxiety.

[Mallory Rubin]

But, like, the fact that that is a source of anxiety or vulnerability or insecurity. Right. And to spin it to, like, what edge can I find inside of that? What edge can we. My new squire and I find inside of that is such, like a lovely. The world of Game of Thrones can be so bleak and so grim. Moments like that. Tyrions wear it like armor. You know, we loved that Larys scene with.

[Joanna Robinson]

I did not have hilarious mention on the weird moment.

[Mallory Rubin]

You know, it's something like this, which is, I think a subtler version of it still taps into that core idea of like, then it can't be used to hurt you. You know, wear it like armor.

[Joanna Robinson]

I just.

[Mallory Rubin]

I love it. I love it.

[Chris Ryan]

Let's do a little housekeeping. So on House of R. Yes. Will you be discussing this show with the full knowledge of what happens in the books?

[Joanna Robinson]

We'll do what we usually do, which is like a section. We'll have like a book spoiler section at the end.

[Chris Ryan]

People might be watching this. They're like, you haven't said this. You haven't said that.

[Mallory Rubin]

We'll be going deep scene by scene through the entire episode.

[Chris Ryan]

And also, like, perhaps a book spoiler section.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

You know, I think that this show works on both levels. I think you can watch it episode to episode or you can have the total knowledge of where it's going. And it's still very. It's still a pleasure. It's a pleasure to talk to both of you.

[Mallory Rubin]

Will you be covering this show on the watch?

[Chris Ryan]

We will be. It is on Industry Corner, so we'll be splitting a little bit of time.

[Mallory Rubin]

But when will we see ag in industry? Sally Draper's there. Jonathan.

[Joanna Robinson]

Honestly.

[Chris Ryan]

Industry season 11.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yes.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. Egg comes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Thanks so much for talking to me, Mal Jo. House of R. Will we go Monday or Tuesday or when do you guys think it'll go up?

[Mallory Rubin]

Tuesday night. We'll record Tuesday morning. So depending on how long we go and how much caffeine Carlos has. Shout out, Aleya. Shout out, Carlos. Shout out, Arjuna. Shout out, Jomi. The whole crew is here with us today. Hannah on Ratliff, like, surprised us with all of our. Our decor. Just the. The squad, the best, as always.

[Chris Ryan]

Total pleasure. See you guys next week.

[Joanna Robinson]

See.

[Chris Ryan]

Well, the holidays have come and gone once again, but if you've forgotten to get that special someone in your life a gift. Well, Mint Mobile is extending their holiday offer of half off unlimited wireless. So here's the idea. You get it now, you call it an early present for next year. What do you have to lose? Give it a [e-mail] Switch limited time.

[Mallory Rubin]

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