‘A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms’ Episode 2 Deep Dive

Summary

House of R: 'A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms' Episode 2 Deep Dive (January 28, 2026)

Podcast: House of R (The Ringer)

Hosts: Mallory Rubin & Joanna Robinson

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Episode Overview

Mallory Rubin and Joanna Robinson deliver an exhaustive, characteristically joyful and irreverent deep dive into Episode 2 ("Hard Salt Beef") of HBO’s A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms. They break down the episode’s thematic resonance, examine narrative and character developments, and trace connections to the broader Game of Thrones universe and lore. Their discussion centers around the show's reflections on chivalry, myth vs. reality, identity, class, and legacy, all with their signature warmth, humor, and insight.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Housekeeping, Context, and Listener Letters [02:01-07:06]

• Housekeeping: Recap of the House of R episode structure; deep dive format; spoilers only at the very end.
• Listener Letters & Real World Context: Listeners share feedback about the power of stories to inspire courage in challenging times. Jo draws connections between the themes of chivalry and standing up for what's right in the episode to current events and broader struggles against oppression.
  • “Tyranny requires constant effort. It breaks, it leaks. Authority is brittle. Oppression is the mask of fear. … Try. Try.” – quoting Nemec from Andor (07:01)
  • “Maintaining joy is a great weapon against tyranny in general.” – Joanna [08:45]

2. Ashford Meadow: Reception, Ratings, and Fandom Response [09:09-13:02]

• The show’s muted but “dope” debut; HBO's 6.7 million viewership framed optimistically but doesn't seem to have broken out of the fandom bubble yet.
• Discussion of the episode’s famously short runtime (33 minutes—the shortest “Game of Thrones” episode ever) but praised as “meaty.”
• Ongoing worry over ratings in the context of HBO/Warner Brothers’ business uncertainty.

3. The Sir Arlan Cock Discourse & Humor [12:23–16:00, throughout]

• Handling of the episode’s infamous nudity and scatological humor, including the prosthetic for Sir Arlan.
• Playful debate over the Reddit/A Song of Ice and Fire community’s pearl-clutching about “poop and prosthetic cock” underlining Thrones fans’ shifting thresholds for what shocks or repels them.
• Recap of listener responses to naming “Poop Robin” the bird whose genus is turdus, and other punny names from listeners [14:06–16:00].
• “Brave Turd Robin” suggested as a Monty Python shout-out; “Bird of Spray,” “Foul Movement,” and more [15:52].

4. Opening Scene: Memory and Myth-Making [24:49–33:28]

• Dunk’s attempts to get vouched for by lords who do not recall Sir Arlan, contrasted with poignant flashbacks.
• The “gap” between myth and reality is explored, as Dunk’s memories (and the tales he tells himself) outstrip the mundane or undignified truth—especially in the context of Sir Arlan’s death.
• “Tales grow in the telling, which is the middle point of this story, right?” – Joanna [26:53]

Notable Exchange

• Joanna: “Do we know his unit was that size or is that just how Dunk is remembering it? We are firmly lodged in Dunk’s POV…” [27:29]
• Mallory: “It was just such effective storytelling to have that moral clarity, while managing to make us laugh.” [32:33]

5. Chivalry, Knighthood, and Reality [43:14–49:50]

• Focus on the tension between the ideal of knighthood/chivalry and its reality in Westeros.
• Hound comparisons: quoting A Feast for Crows on the brutal realities of knighthood vs. the stories ("There are no true knights, no more than there are gods. If you can’t protect yourself, die and get out of the way.”)
• Discussion about what makes a real knight: Is it behavior, status, or legacy?

6. Dunk and Egg’s Dynamic: Heart and Humor [18:10-22:39, 126:06]

• Emphasis on their “lone wolf and cub” energy, but with unique qualities: Egg’s sharp wit and Dunk’s physicality and humility.
• "If Sir Dunk the Lunk told me that Egg is his best friend, I’d believe it.” – Joanna [20:15]
• Exploration of how their differences complement rather than mirror each other.

7. Identity, Class, and Upward Mobility [59:23–61:04]

• Egg challenges Dunk: “Why do you treat these royal lapdogs like they’re your betters?” [59:23]
• The question of whether knighthood offers true mobility for someone like Dunk; how those from humble beginnings view the ruling class.

8. The Arrival of the Targaryens and Baelor Breakspear [63:03–106:55]

• The diminished pageantry of Targaryens post-Blackfyre Rebellion; no dragons, just banners.
  • “Targaryens in their flop era.” – Citing listener comment [63:14]
• Extended discussion of Baelor Breakspear’s character (dignity, confidence, “soul of chivalry”) & his less ostentatious fashion as compared to other Targs.
• Notable intro of Sam Spruell as Maekar, with discussion of the Targ dynasty’s family tree, rivalries, and insecurities.

Notable Quotes

• “We are the intruders here, brother.” – Baelor, as cited by listener Matt [99:11]
• Mallory on Baelor: “He is comfortable in his own skin.” [99:03]

9. Puppet Show, Sigil Creation, and the Power of Story [112:29–118:54]

• The Florian and Jonquil puppet show:
  • “All men are fools and all men are knights. Where women are concerned.” [117:21]
  • Recurrence of this motif throughout ASoIaF, and its meaning for Dunk as a “fool” aspiring to knighthood.
• The collaborative invention of Dunk’s sigil (tree and falling star) beautifully connects with future canon (Brienne finds the shield in her father’s armory).

10. Armor, Sweetfoot, and Letting Go [131:50–139:23]

• Dunk can’t afford Steely Pate’s armor, must sell Sweetfoot, Sir Arlan’s horse, in a touching moment.
  • Listener Maddie’s email: “Giving up Sweetfoot is likely giving up another piece of Sir Arlan… the bond between horse and groom is even stronger than the bond between horse and rider.” [136:16]

11. The Tournament: Stakes, Spectacle, and Status [141:19–145:28]

• The five-on-five tourney joust; the antler helm of Lionel, the pageantry, and class lines (Egg and Dunk among the commons, Targs in the box).
• Parallels drawn to both “A Knight’s Tale” and “Friday Night Lights” for tournament energy.

12. Legacy, Self-Doubt, and Hopeful Resolve [148:15–149:15]

• Dunk’s final vow: “Do great knights live in the hedges and die by the side of a muddy road? I think not. …I am his legacy; on the morrow we will show them what his hand has wrought.” [151:03]
• The episode ends with Dunk grappling honestly with who Arlan was, what to keep, and what to leave behind.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (w/ Timestamps)

• [07:01] Joanna, quoting Nemec (Andor): “Tyranny requires constant effort. It breaks, it leaks. Authority is brittle. Oppression is the mask of fear. ...Try. Try.”
• [20:15] Joanna: “If Sir Dunk the Lunk told me that Egg is his best friend, I’d believe it.”
• [26:53] Joanna: “Tales grow in the telling, which is the middle point of this story, right?”
• [32:33] Mallory: “It was just such effective storytelling to have that moral clarity, while managing to make us laugh.”
• [43:41] Joanna (on the Hound): “There are no true knights, no more than there are gods. If you can’t protect yourself, die and get out of the way of those who can.”
• [63:14] Listener, via Joanna: “Targaryens in their flop era.”
• [99:11] Baelor (via listener Matt): “We are the intruders here, brother.”
• [106:48] Joanna: “The way that Baelor is treating Dunk is like the way that Dunk treats horses. Right? Gentle. He’s just gentle.”
• [117:21] Puppet Show: “All men are fools and all men are knights. Where women are concerned.”
• [136:16] Listener Maddie: “Giving up Sweetfoot is likely giving up another piece of Sir Arlan… the bond between horse and groom is even stronger than the bond between horse and rider.”
• [151:03] Dunk (Mallory paraphrasing): “I am his legacy; on the morrow we will show them what his hand has wrought.”

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Segment Timestamps for Fast Reference

• Housekeeping, letters, context: [02:01–07:06]
• Show’s ratings & reception: [09:09–13:02]
• Cock, poop & fandom humor: [12:23–16:00; 26:53+; threaded throughout]
• Ser Arlan remembrance & flashbacks: [24:49–33:28]
• Chivalry, knighthood discourse: [43:14–49:50]
• Dunk & Egg dynamic: [18:10–22:39, 126:06]
• Class and upward mobility: [59:23–61:04]
• Targaryen arrival & family dynamics: [63:03–106:55]
• Puppet show, sigil and storytelling: [112:29–118:54]
• Dunk’s armor and selling Sweetfoot: [131:50–139:23]
• The tournament: [141:19–145:28]
• Legacy & final resolve: [148:15–149:15]
• Book spoiler/end section: [151:23+]

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Language & Tone

• Unfailingly witty, playful, and warm.
• Eager mix of deep reverence for ASoIaF lore with gleeful indulgence in dick jokes and fandom memes.
• Generous, open-hearted engagement with audience emails and thoughts.
• Blends literary analysis, lore parsing, and robust humor; alive with Mallory and Joanna’s long-standing podcast chemistry.

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Summary

House of R’s deep dive into “A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms” Episode 2 is emblematic of why the podcast is beloved: an infectious blend of granular analysis, hilarious running gags, lived-in Thrones fandom, and emotional engagement. From the larger themes of myth, legacy, and morality to irreverent discourse on prosthetic cocks and Poop Robin, Mallory and Joanna make the universe of Westeros feel vital, weird, and wonderfully fun—as well as timely in how stories can help us contend with darkness and uncertainty. The episode is a rich treat for both diehard loreheads and casual fans, deeply recapping all essential beats, characters, and wider series resonance, while never failing to bring the laughs.

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For the next episode, tune in for the Egg reveal, more jousts, more heartbreak, and, inevitably, more dick jokes.

Transcript

[A]

Foreign.

[B]

Welcome to House of Arc, a Ringer verse podcast on the Ringer Podcast Network. I'm Mallory Rubin joining me today. She's not too tall for puppets or this podcast. It's Joanna Robinson.

[A]

Oh wow. Dunk doesn't have the words, but you definitely do. You have all the words and I'm really excited to hear them.

[B]

So many words coming today from both of us. It is time for the deep dive. Deep, deep, deep, deep, deep dive into a Night of the Seven Kingdoms episode 2 right after this this episode is.

[C]

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[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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[B]

Delivery fees may apply. Okay, Joe, let's refresh everybody on how we do this. How do we cover a Knight of the Seven Kingdoms?

[A]

Wow. I'm so glad you asked. First of all. Yeah, immediately after the episode ends.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Up on a video platform of your choosing, talk the thrones.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Chris Ryan, Molly Rubin, Joanna Robinson. Instant reactions to the episode immediately after Delightful. Right now we're doing the deep Dive. That comes a couple days later.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

You can email us hobbitsanddragonsmail.com if you have thoughts on the episode that you would like us to address.

[B]

The inbox is always open.

[A]

We will be digging text and lore and all of that, but not yes, spoilers. That's right. Until the very end of the episode.

[B]

And you will have a warning right on the brink of the spoiler section. You can't miss it. Carlos is going to add in sound effects that scare the shit out of you.

[A]

We did get an email from someone who said they got very scared by the spoiler warning last week.

[B]

I think we are airing, you know, out of an abundance of caution that nobody can say. I did not know what section of the podcast I had made my way to. Spoiler spoilers will all be at the end. That'll be a brief little section. We're just going to spend a few minutes every week looking ahead. Book passages. I mean, we love to read them, but spoiler safe until the very end, right? Like follow, subscribe, follow the pod on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. You can watch full video episodes of the House of R on the Spotify app. Incredible stuff. You can watch videos on the Ringerverse YouTube channel and you can follow the Ringerverse on the social media platform of your choosing later this week. We'll be doing the annual Hype draft a little later than usual this year. Thank you to everybody for the patience. But we're drafting hype squads with definitely.

[A]

Happening and we've already recorded it so.

[B]

We can finally say with that it will be airing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Perhaps the only time we can say with confidence lately that things will be airing is after we have recorded them. So that's common. And of course, on the Night of the Seven Kingdoms front the Midnight Boys.

[A]

Pew, pew, pew, pew.

[B]

Also covering on Monday, this wonderful show on Mondays. Chris and Andy are checking in on Mondays. Riley McAtee is writing wonderful pieces on the ringer.com what a great website. The Ringer is hyped about. A Night of the Seven Kingdoms. It is a wonderful television program that we are having a blast watching and are very excited to talk about again.

[A]

Today.

[B]

Before we get to it.

[A]

Yeah. Okay. So we wanted to talk, we wanted to talk a little bit about, yes. Some things that are going on in the world really quickly. I know that some people listen to this podcast to escape that and that is an absolutely fine way to listen to this podcast. So if you want to skip ahead, go for it. We did get a. This sort of speaks to that. We got a, an email from our listener Elsie in Minnesota, living in Minnesota, who says, who wrote how you both speak about the hero's journey and the big stakes, not just character death and, and paying attention to things, how we care and every thing a hobbit ever said is really helping me get through this dark time and to find the courage and the strength to protest and donate and be active in my community. So that's something that Elsie said that like our podcast was sort of a good escape for her. We got an email from our listener Paul as well. And I can't really get into the specifics of what Paul wrote because it was about some things that we would only talk about in the spoiler section of this podcast. But I think I can say, you know, I think it's already clear if anyone has, like, watched the trailer for this show, Night of the Seven Kingdoms, that this is a show about chivalry and standing up for what's right and defending sort of people against bullies and oppressors and all this sort of stuff that is the source of this story. And so thinking about that a lot when thinking about what's been going on in Minnesota, in Minneapolis in general, and specifically what happened this weekend, which really hit me really hard. And I am gonna wrap this up with. I mean, we don't always talk about politics, but sometimes we do as it pertains to, like, the story that we're telling. And I think this story really resonates with. With some things that people are feeling. But I thought I just go to back to a classic, which is our guy Namek from Andor, who said in season one, the imperial need for control is so desperate because it is so unnatural. Tyranny requires constant effort. It breaks, it leaks. Authority is brittle. Oppression is the mask of fear. And then ellipses. Remember this? Try. Try. So, you know, for everyone who's trying to. Yeah, we're thinking about you. Something I posted on Social over the weekend. A pal of mine whose family lives in Minneapolis suggested a website called stanwithminnesota.com yes. Just to sort of send resources. If, if you're feeling helpless and hopeless and want to put your energy somewhere, that that's a place that you can put it. So standwith Minnesota.com we're thinking of all of our listeners everywhere and very specifically our listeners in Minnesota, Minneapolis. And yeah, I just. Thank you for giving me the time to talk about that.

[B]

This is a truly appalling and abhorrent time in our country and obviously an incredibly difficult time for a lot of people. And if Elsie or Paul or anybody else we heard from or anybody else who's listening right now can find courage or comfort or strength in their community and the example that anybody is setting in the words of a story that gives them some sort of sense of purpose, then that is a beautiful thing. And this can be a completely deflating and helpless and hopeless time. We talked about this a lot when we covered Andor and heard from a lot of people about how, you know, as you said, sometimes for people, stories are escapes. So that you don't have to think about the world. And sometimes when you fall into a fictional universe, you can find something there that helps you navigate the real world. And that idea from Nemec that just, you know, every step, one crack, one crack, one crack, and then eventually the dam breaks, gave a lot of people a sense that they could attempt to do something. And it can feel so hard to know how.

[A]

Right?

[B]

So hard to know.

[A]

It can feel so hopeless and so paralyzing. So you know that every step forward, like the small hands of the hobbits, sort of like, you know, what. What can you do even on a small scale or even on a large scale to move things forward. And I think that. I don't think it's wrong to take respite also in stories or in podcasts, wherever the case may be, because maintaining joy is a great weapon against tyranny in general. So, you know, the idea is to keep you helpless, hopeless, frozen, joyless. And that's, you know, that's worth pushing back on.

[B]

So beautifully said.

[A]

Love you.

[B]

I love you too, pal. Opening snapshot. We still don't have a ton of information about how a Knight of the Seven Kingdoms is performing, but we did. We mentioned last week that there were no viewership insights at the time of that recording. And then some came out.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So per HBO, 6.7 million people watched the first episode in the first three days.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Does it feel that way to you? Are a lot of people buzzing about the show in your life? We are obviously in our Bubble of Thrones fandom and people who podcast about pop culture, so it's a little bit hard to tell. Does it feel like it's animating a lot discussion in the. In the wider world?

[A]

I don't get that sense, do you?

[B]

Not really. Which is sad. I really want more people to discover the show and discover the joy that awaits them.

[A]

You mentioned this when we recorded the hypedraft that people have not seen yet. Little preview but that. I think we both agree that there's a real opportunity for viewership to grow on this. That as the story, as this, the greater story unfolds and this smaller story's greater relevance in the history of Westeros unfolds, then maybe people will feel like it's. It's worth tuning in for.

[B]

My. My dearest hope. Even if it is right before the finale. Yeah, six episode season. They're half hour episodes. This episode of television that we are talking about today. Hard salt beef, 33 minutes.

[A]

I know.

[B]

This is the shortest episode of Game of Thrones ever. It's a meaty one, it's a beefy one, It's a hard salt beefy one. But you people, if they, if they're here in the buzz, they're going to be able to spend an afternoon catching up on the show heading into the.

[A]

Finale, potentially in an evening.

[B]

You know, Donald is here helping us out today. Shout out, Donald. And before we sat down, he was like, you got. I. You guys are. You're talking about A Night of the Seven Kingdoms. I'm paraphrasing. But he was like, that show is dope. I'm loving it.

[A]

Oh, nice.

[B]

I was like, let's fucking go.

[A]

The sea is dope. And so is the Night of the Seven Kingdoms.

[B]

Exactly, exactly.

[A]

No, I mean, you said it. You know, it's true. HBO framed that number positively right. They were saying, like, this is one of, like, the top three. Three premieres we've ever seen on our streaming. Like, a lot of caveats about, like, sort of the winds and the hows to try to frame it. But, yeah, it's a. It's a muted debut. We want this show. I mean, the good news is, is that the show is cheap to make, so they don't have to pull in huge numbers to prove they're worth keeping around. That being said, Warner Brothers is headed towards a merger and we don't know what's gonna happen on the other side of the merger. So it would be nice to feel like you're a bonafide hit going into the merger to secure your future. Like, because I think a Casey Bloys under his own auspices would keep a show like this around. But it's not clear that that's going to be his decision to make post Warner Brothers merger. So I'm just thinking about that. I want all 13 seasons of a Knight of the Seven Kingdoms. That's what I want. So same. I want it to do well. So if that's just me turning on my. My, like HBO Go and just like letting it run to crank those numbers up, I'm willing, I'm willing to pay that electricity bill. You know what I mean? It was just leave it on for the cat when I leave during the day. You know what I mean?

[B]

Is Bug enjoying the season so far? Big fan.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You mentioned it's a cheap show to make. How much of the budget for season one? Has there been any formal reporting how much of the budget went to Sir Arlen's giant cock?

[A]

You've been so restrained. I know you've Already made a few references. But, like, genuinely, this is demure for you. I was expecting wall to wall.

[B]

I mean, it was the first thing I said on Talk the Thrones. So, you know, part of what we do here is try to make each podcast different. Every show should have a clear identity. The giant dick will be coming up plenty today.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Make no mistake.

[A]

Will there be dicks? Will there be moves?

[B]

Oh, man. From cocks and boobs to poop. Well, so this is.

[A]

This is a thing that some people are citing a lot of Pearl Crush clutchers. I have to say, on the. I was on the A Song of Ice and Fire Reddit and just a.

[B]

Lot who don't like the diarrhea.

[A]

I was, like, surprised. Not just the. The diarrhea and the Sir Arlen and all of his splendor. And I was just, like, very surprised by that because I was like, couldn't be me. We've seen so much violence on Thrones and, you know, just like, horrifying, horrible, extreme things and a little bit of poop and a prosthetic cock are, like, driving people away in droves. I don't buy it.

[B]

Not all of us.

[A]

On the poop front, we did.

[B]

Did the bad babies rise to the challenge?

[A]

Yeah. So last last week, Mallory dubbed the bird in the tree watching Dunk relieve himself. Poop Robin. That's right. And I suggested he could use a better name. And the bad baby we did. I would say the highest percentage of emails we got were about poor Poop Robin and the naming debacle.

[B]

Yeah. Has Diarrhea Dunk caught on in the last couple days since Talk the Thrones or.

[A]

Nope.

[B]

Okay. That's a shame. Yeah.

[A]

Gotta work on your penetration. Wow.

[B]

That's what Sir Arlen is here for.

[A]

I set that up for you, you know, so several listeners want to let us know on a scientific front.

[B]

Yeah. Science corner.

[A]

While the bird in question is a European robin, I think it's worth mentioning that the American robins belong to a genus called tortoise. T U R D U S. So Poop Robin as a moniker is rather fitting. And our listener Casey followed up to say, my childhood friend had a younger sister named Robin. The older sibling came across a burning book and looked up Robin as one would. And ever since, Robin has been known as Tertis.

[B]

I mean, that's really brutal.

[A]

Really tough.

[B]

That's brutal.

[A]

If your childhood nickname is tertis and your sibling has named you that rough. And there's just like, no. Unless you pretend it doesn't bother you and they Actually, forget about it. But there's no way.

[B]

Robin's a great name though. My stepsister's name is Robin.

[A]

I have a really good friend named Robin.

[B]

Okay, Robin from Stranger Things.

[A]

Our listener Nathan suggested a very Monty Python esque brave Turd Robin that I like. Bravely Brave Turd Robin. You know what I mean? A listener Robin with a Y suggested Shit bird. Our listener Jordan said, since anything French sounds sophisticated to English ears. How about Robin Demer? Or the more Quebecois sounding Robin Desia, which basically means shitting Robin. In truth, though, you had me at poop Robin.

[B]

Oh, there you go. It's. It sounds to me like Poop Robin really won over the masses and said.

[A]

Sir Wing, which I liked based on our, like, sir win conversation. Last and last but not least, TJ came through with a bunch of great options, and I just want to run through them really quickly. TJ suggested Sterling.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Foul movement.

[B]

That's excellent.

[A]

Bird of spray and Song Turd.

[B]

Honestly, all great. Bird of spray is excellent given the particular state the dunk is in in that moment. I like foul movement a lot. When I worked at Sports Illustrated, we had a bowling.

[A]

We were in the.

[B]

The ZOG Sports bowling league at Port Authority, and the team name was the Bowl Movement. It feels of a. Of a piece. We won the championship one year.

[A]

Did you?

[B]

Yeah, I mean, I had nothing to do with it. I. I participated in consuming the beer tow. I can't say I. I attributed much. Oh, beer towers. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, the beer towers. Yeah.

[A]

At the bowling alley.

[B]

Oh, yeah. I mean, life in New York, you.

[A]

Know, it's just a different thing. Is it like a champagne tower?

[B]

No, it was just like a giant.

[A]

Just a beer bong sort of thing.

[B]

Arlen esque. Yeah. Ish.

[A]

But huge. Okay. I was imagining like a structure and I was like, with all those no balls and pins knocking around, you wouldn't want to.

[B]

Yeah, that would be touristic.

[A]

Okay, so like a beer bong. Like a.

[B]

But gigantic. Yeah. Enough to. To fuel the entire team that contributed to the championship.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Ben Glicksman, now here at the Ringer, a member of that championship squad. This is a different Ian Orifice, one of my great pals. Wonder what he would think of Poop Robin.

[A]

This is a different time for you where you were willing to put your mouth on the same receptacle that other people put their mouths on.

[B]

How to. How to comment, how to answer that question. Sure. There was a time in my life when I did that. Plenty of, you know, when I lived in New York, I got sick a lot. And I used to think it was.

[A]

Different from now because.

[B]

Now I believe that I can do things to ward that often, that I'm constantly confronted by how false that is. But in New York, you know, you're right in the subways, oh, yeah, you're drinking from beer towers of Port Authority in your bowling league. You're, you're kind of fucked. But here, I, I, I'm ready to face the day.

[A]

So we'll dream of like when, when I recount your many exploits, when I am going around making sure that people remember your legacy as, as Dunk does here with Arlen, I will say remember a time that's right, when Mallory Rubin used to put her mouth on things that other people put their mouths on.

[B]

Well, now it's time to talk about Sir Arlen.

[A]

Let's do it.

[B]

No, actually, before we get to the deep dive, quick table setting takes on the episode. Anything you want to say in just a big picture sense about how you found EP too hard salt beef?

[A]

We get so much more time, just time with Duncan Egg enjoying the tourney grounds, you know, tug of war, watching the puppet show, watching the, the joust and, you know, drinking beer with cider with bugs in it or not, or whatever the case may be. And I just think their dynamic is so precious. And so, you know, there are plenty of people that, let's say the detractors of this show, the Pearl clutchers and otherwise, who are like, this is just another lone wolf and cub. And we've seen so much of that with Last of Us and Mando and Grogu and the upcoming Starfighter, Star wars show and et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. We're tired of lone wolf and cub. Even though we talked about the hedge night when we did our Lone wolf and cub episode a million years ago.

[B]

God, yeah. Geez.

[A]

Their dynamic is so different because in every Lone Wolf and Cub story, ideally, the two people are learning from each other. But I think in no place is that more apparent than in this story of just sort of Dunk doesn't have the words. Egg has the words. Egg is puny, Dunk is tall, you know, and it's very much a. Do you ever see the movie the Mighty? It's like a movie in the 90s, I think it was, anyway, just like this, this sort of collision of like the small and, and fragile and super smart and, and the tall and like, a little less, you know, intellectually sharp or whatever, and sort of how they can help each other Navigate the world. And I just think that that dynamic is so sweet. And they're just like, if, you know, it's. It's early days, but if Sir Dunk the Lunk came up to me and said, that kid Egg is my best friend, I 100% believe it. And I think it's just, like, really, really sweet.

[B]

You'd say, well, what about Sweet Foot?

[A]

He'd be like, sold him. Sad. That's a good idea.

[B]

I needed to talk about that.

[A]

Some dragons for some armor.

[B]

Needed some coin. I loved this episode. I thought it was just so charming and so delightful. I'm excited to go. We'll be going in our deep dive, beat by beat through every scene, as is our want. And I really enjoyed all of it. And once again, I think the kind of, like, ton blend, the humor, the heart, the thematic richness, the show, much like Sir Arlen, is packing a lot in to a tight space.

[A]

Carlos, should we keep a runner, like, a little, like, ding?

[B]

Yeah. A Tale of the Tape. Like, do I mention Starlin's more than Lionel Baratheon says cunt in his, like, 75 seconds of screen time?

[A]

He only says it thrice. And you've already outstripped him. You've already outstripped him.

[B]

Oh, man. My guy. Baylor Breakspear is here. The Targs are here. Wonderful introductions for Baylor and Maekar and Aryan is here. We've got so much to talk about. And I agree. I think that the. The Dunkin Egg dynamic is just captivating so far on the screen. Truly captivating. And I love what you're identifying about how they're learning from each other. You know, we talked about this a little bit on on Talk the Thrones, but I really loved the way inside this episode we built from Egg sighting. You know, you're both gigantic. Well, you are both gigantic. The commonality, as he calls it, that Duncan and Tansel share. And then we have reminder after reminder that for Dunk and Egg, of course, there are things that Dunk is seeing in Egg that soften him and make him think, oh, he says his mother is dead, and, oh, he's from King's Landing. Like, things that allow him to see common. Commonalities between the two of them, but that mostly it's about how they complement each other. Right? Mostly it's about the things that are different between them and how they can become this wonderfully mesmerizing odd couple pairing who surprise each other and us. And that's just. It's a great thing to be able to, like, read and part of why we love the story so much. And it's been really, really wonderful to watch it unfold through two episodes on the screen so far. And yeah, I just really, really loved this episode. It's kind of amazing actually how short it is because I thought it was like it moved with a quickness and with great pace, but a lot packing a lot. There's a lot in there's packing a lot in. All right, let's get to the opening of this episode in Sir Arlen's cock. Let's get to the deep dive. Deep indeed.

[C]

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[B]

Okay, deep dive. We're gonna begin where the episode begins. This remembrance. Dunk is going about lord to lord and trying to find someone who will vouch for him, trying to find someone who remembers Sir Arlan. And we are pairing the sounds of Dunk's efforts to compel somebody right, with these glimpses into the past. And there is a bit of a gap, a Sir Arling Cox sized gap between what we're hearing. That's a sizable gap. Sizable gap. What we're hearing and what we're seeing. Before we get into some of the particulars of Dunk's sentiments and what he is conveying and then the particulars of what we are glimpsing in these quick little rapid fire flashbacks. What did you think, just in a big picture, like tonal and structural way of this opening for the episode and the note it set, but also the way it functioned as a bookend with the conclusion of the episode.

[A]

Yeah, I brought this up on. Talking is like my favorite part of the episode that we get this sort of like opening contrast with the closing of. So we're watching this episode, Dunk go from, yes, like boosting Ser Arlan's rep in order to get someone to vouch for him. But also I think this is how he thinks of him. He was a great knight, right. And then towards. By the end of the episode he's like, well, great knights don't die in the dirt on the side of the road, do they? Oh no. Was he not a great knight after all? And like trotting around behind Ser Arlan my entire youth and thinking I too can be a knight. That's because I thought he was a great knight. But now I'm learning that maybe he wasn't. So can I actually be a knight if a real knight is more like the Kingsguard that I met or whoever else you know, and not Ser Arlan himself. Tales grow in the telling, which is the middle point of this story, right? We get the bookends of his memories and then the center we get this line for bae, tales grow in the telling. And so is he talking about the size of Sir Arlan's cock when he's talking about that? I don't know.

[B]

He didn't need to do much growing, honestly.

[A]

Well, if he's a shower, if he.

[B]

Maybe also a grower, which is frankly a little terrifying to think about.

[A]

One of my favorite recurring comments I saw around the Internet was people like, how can Sir Arlan's old, frail heart pump that much blood in order to inflate that thing?

[B]

There's a nude woman behind him. And obviously he didn't last much longer after that. You know, he just kept on going and he kept on coming. Indeed. And then he died.

[A]

No, but I'm just saying, I know you're making just like tremendously, endlessly witty, perfect Marlowe jokes, but you're talking about.

[B]

The actual biology of how could a.

[A]

No, but also, do we know that his unit was that size or is that just how Dunk is remembering it? Also, we have been told by Ira Parker that we are firmly lodged in Dunk's pov. I know that's sleeping under a tree outside of that cottage. Had to listen to Sir Arlen take his pleasure with this woman. Hopefully she took some pleasure, too. I hope that for her. And then watch him take a leak in the morning. Is that, you know, was Dunk there at that moment?

[B]

I think we should assume that Dunk is very close by. You know, we'll hear him talk at the end of the episode about how Sir Arlen Horde. Obviously in the text, Sir Arlen's commentary on the horrors of Westeros is a big part of Dunk's education. And yeah, I think lamentably, we are forced to deduce that Duncan, I don't.

[A]

Know, nearby, I don't know that this woman was a sex worker necessarily.

[B]

Could have just been a villager.

[A]

She's got a little cottage. I don't know.

[B]

You know, it could be the brothel. Could be the local brothel.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

I'm just going by the canon, you know, in the episode and the text. It's true, all of his commentary. I also just loved the bookend nature and how that functioned in the episode. And I think that idea of, ooh, you really heard the Baltimore there episode.

[A]

I loved it.

[B]

Going down to the ocean Hun to watch the episode, talk about Sir Arlan and his giant dong. We'll talk about Old Bay seasoning today probably too, when we get to the crab commentary. So just a big time. A big time to be from Maryland, you know, this idea of like the reconciliation. We're talking a lot last week, this week, throughout the entire. Not only season, but covering this show for as many seasons as we're fortunate enough to get about the role that, like myth and legend plays. Right. Tales grow in the telling. A tall tale that became legend. This is present in every aspect of this. And some of that is about the stories that the puppeteers perform or the stories that are passed down from somebody in your life or across the realm. And some of it is like the story you tell yourself, Right? And maybe part of that for Dunk, part of it for Dunk is reconciling, like, myth and fact and. And. And holding on to the things that he learned from Arlen that are good and are right and are just. And that will help Dunk, and then also admitting to himself that it's not this, like, purely perfect thing.

[A]

I think specifically when you live in a world where this idea of, like, the chivalric code exists. But so again and again. So there's not only the. What is the truth of my memory of Sir Arlyn? And is it. Is it chivalry to have sex with a random woman in a cottage somewhere? You know, maybe she enjoyed herself. What a chivalrous thing to do. But. But has met all these knights so far at this tourney, and they're real assholes. And so if. What is that? If that code is not real? You know, you. You pointed out in our notes, and we actually noted this in the trailer, that when Dunk goes and meets the Targaryens, we see the seven pointed star sort of behind him. Behind that entire sequence, there's a, you.

[B]

Know, there's a window, you know, the light pouring through.

[A]

The light pouring through with the seven pointed star. So, like, these are the codes, the codes of religion, the codes of chivalry, the codes of society. And if so many people, especially the rich and the powerful, are intent on just playing by their own rulebook. Right. Then sort of how do you know what is right? Right? If you don't have a religious text to guide you or you don't, you know, because no one's talking about religion here, which is, you know, you don't need religion for morality. And then morality has to come from somewhere inside of you. I need to figure out what is actually right. What did Saralin do that felt right, Right? Sarlin giving some coppers away when he had barely any. Yeah.

[B]

To the villagers.

[A]

So are taking on Dunk in the first place. Place from, you know, from the bowels of. Of fleas. Flea bottom.

[B]

So whenever you say bowels. I know I think of our guy.

[A]

Were you thinking about him when you saw the Hightower? Just like on top of that. Yeah. Guy's helm.

[B]

High tower.

[A]

Helm.

[B]

A hightower. Challenging a Targaryen feels right.

[A]

I think of all the things to put on a helm, like, if you got a fish, sure. Put a fish on a helm. You got some flowers. Sure. Put some flowers on your helm. The tower. Just gonna plunk a little tower on top of your home like that.

[B]

Well, we know what Steely Pete would say.

[A]

I know, but, like, very showy. I would go for some, like, sick flames on the. You know, because, like, the high tower has the, like, put some.

[B]

Maybe it's just, like, kind of functional as well. One more.

[A]

You think he's gonna joust with, like, a little woodpecker. Okay. You know.

[B]

All right. Little Sir Arlen at the top of the helm.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I, I, I, I love what you're saying. And I think this idea, too, of, like, romanticizing aspects of Sir Arlan's life. Like, part of that for Dunk is romanticizing the notion of being a hedge knight. And what I loved most about the end note of the episode, which, of course, we'll get to later, is, like, he's not rejecting that.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Like, we'll show what his hand has wrought. There's an embrace of it, but a more complex, nuanced embrace of who Arlen was and of who Dunk wants to be. The parts of Arlen's legacy that Dunk wants to continue to embrace in a spouse and inherit and the aspects of his life that he wants to forge for himself, so. And then you manage to make us laugh while you're telling us all this about the character. It was very effective. Illuminating, but effective storytelling to have that.

[A]

Sort of, like, moral clarity or building of your interior moral structure, while also, this thing we've noted in last week's episode on both Talk the Thrones, this idea of building his name, his sigil.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You know, all the trappings that come with it. There's, like, the interior core. Who am I morally, at the end of the day? And then also. What's my name? Yeah.

[B]

Forging all aspects of identity and, like.

[A]

Symbol that identifies me.

[B]

You know, should we paint a shield at some point this season? Or a puppet?

[A]

How. What are your painting skills? Like, I'm terrible. Yeah.

[B]

I used to think that when I was young. Horrible. I used to think when I was young that I. I like to draw. I. There was a brief moment where I thought I could, but then I had to confront the fact that that was not true. So, again, we all must confront the truth.

[A]

What about you?

[B]

Are you a Deft painter I bet you are. You strike me as a talented artist.

[A]

I studied painting.

[B]

I did studied painting. I did studied it and then successfully did it or studied it as an intellectual pursuit.

[A]

But I would say I used to be pretty good at it. I haven't done a long time. No oil. Like oil. Yeah.

[B]

Why have you never painted me anything?

[A]

Maybe a red apple's in your future.

[B]

Consider it commissioned. Okay, here's what we hear Dunk say he was a true knight, different than other men. He's talking about more than the giant dick, though. Different than other men also because of the giant dick. Peaceable nature, quiet and humble. A veteran of a hundred wars, but an enemy to none. I love the enemy to none. That struck me because it's like, okay, enemy to none, but friend to whom.

[A]

Right?

[B]

You know, and I think that's a subtle thing that this episode and story is asking us to think about. Like, the next line, you know, is that we hear is, he never complained, even as he was dying. It's like, maybe he should have. You know, maybe he should have said, make some noise. Stir some shit up.

[A]

Well, I was about to say, it's not like Dunk would have been like, yeah, you should wash that, because Dunk never liked a bath. But maybe some wound care would have saved Sir Arlen.

[B]

Even Sir Donnell has some commentary coming on how Dunk smells very, very, very tough.

[A]

Huh?

[B]

He meant to be a benefit to those around him. It did not make him rich. He held no land, sired no children. Not, Not. Not sure about the sire, no children.

[A]

Part, but we'll never know.

[B]

Benefit to those around him. Benefit to those. That's an example. That's emblematic of what we're talking about. There will be aspects of who Sir Arlen was and not only what he taught Dunk. But that's a great flash of where we just. We, like Dunk, are witnessing ar thing, handing his limited coin, like you said to the villagers. And there's a lesson there that Duncan continued to carry forward. He wanted for nothing but the open air and a. A fire to warm his feet at. His skills as a warrior were unsung. See, that's the PR spin that poop Robin needed.

[A]

Unsung, unsung, unsung, unsung.

[B]

The foul movement, you know.

[A]

But he.

[B]

Had a chin cut from granite. He was a d dog and fighter. He kept on coming. Here's what we see.

[A]

Here's. Here's a worry that I have for Duncan, his training. Yeah, because he's tall. He says he's Light on his feet. Yeah. But his training was with this old man.

[B]

Yep. Sure.

[A]

So has he ever fought someone, you know, his, like, his equal?

[B]

Well, I think we. We know that Sir Arlen has some stamina.

[A]

Do we?

[B]

He got right back up, and he gave Dunk a little tap on the hip, and he was like, come on, let's go. And also, he was fucking. He keeps fucking up a storm until we don't know that he was literally dropped.

[A]

We literally don't know that he is fucking up a store.

[B]

All right, here's some of what we glimpsed paired with those lines. The giant cock. You think that's why this episode is called Hard Salt Beef?

[A]

I do. Ira Parker did say. Yeah, this is amazing that this gave Arlen his quiet confidence.

[B]

I loved the sentiment that this was in the. Inside the episode where he basically is like. He had a lot of, like, shit to deal with. So we gave him a giant cock. I'm paraphrasing, but that was kind of the gist of it, right?

[A]

Yeah. He might have lost his nephew in the red grass, but see what he's packing. Geez.

[B]

I saw this on Talk the Thrones. I'm standing. I'm standing by it. Dunk should just be saying to everybody as he's trying to get them to remember Arlen, did you see this guy Schlong?

[A]

I will just say we got several emails about this. We got a lot of comments on the Talk the Thrones episode about it. Almost all of our listeners, I believe, thought of you immediately when they saw this giant cough. They were like, what a gift for Mallory Rubin, specifically. You know, how nice for her to have nice things.

[B]

You work hard.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You pour a lot into your craft.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

And you just hope that you can make an impact and that you will be seen and known and understood.

[A]

Do you think Arlen hopes that he made an impact?

[B]

You know, how attentive was he? Who can say? But I think he's. He's got a. His toolbox is, you know, hammer and anvil. Indeed. We'll get to that later. Should he have gone with something other than Ser Arlin? A penny tree? Ser Arlan of the Weirwood? What Game of Thrones, like, long or tall or girthy thing does Arlen's cock remind you of most? Should we call it ice? You know, for the fabled greatsword, the Hightower, which we've already discussed. Maybe just Hodor, Giant's Blood, or I'm the Queen. Well, any of these. Nothing. Okay. Thank you for indulging me. I'm done. I promise.

[A]

You're not.

[B]

I think I might be. I mean, probably not.

[A]

I don't think you are.

[B]

I think I mostly done.

[A]

I think Hightower is what I would pick.

[B]

High towers. Yeah, that would be good. That would be good. We don't just see the giant dick tall as the eerie, you know, rewatching, by the way. Chris, on. Give me 10 spikes.

[A]

I'll impregnate the bitch. Maybe some. Maybe we should pull some of George's descriptor of the wall to describe the.

[B]

Wall was on my mind as well, you know. Yeah, I think that would be good. This is definitely like.

[A]

It's not only just like. Like an intimidating climb.

[B]

Yeah. Oh, yeah. The climb is all there is, but.

[A]

But like the width is also something to think about.

[B]

I think that would be really good. It's definitely a different energy than like cinnamon wind. Pink mast, you know, different vibe here for sure. Pink mast is really an all time.

[A]

Maybe the worst thing George has ever written.

[B]

All time. George. Move. We see more than vegar. Yeah, I like it. I like it.

[A]

A bigger sized unit on sorrow.

[B]

Very good.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Do you have what it takes to claim and mount the dragon?

[A]

That's a great question.

[B]

Chris said you couldn't see the sack, but you could. I. I checked back in. I'm so glad you talk the threads. I just want to say it's so.

[A]

Important to have a scholar like you on the. I'm taking Rob Mahoney's freeze frame title away from him and I'm giving it to you for hopefully the hours you spent pouring over, you know, the freeze frame images of Sir Arlen.

[B]

You know, we're watching. And we're watching an hd, so you.

[A]

Have a massive television.

[B]

I should have seen how big Arlen's dick looked on our tv.

[A]

Huge. I don't even have a TV here. I'm like watching on my laptop. Sad. Oh.

[B]

Oh, no, that's. That's not the way to experience this at all.

[A]

No.

[B]

We also see a lot of his scars and I love this. Not just because, like the passage of time and how you feel that, you know, pairing with this idea that all the battles, veteran of all these battles, but this idea that, like, you know, last week, episode one, we talked about that cut to pulling out, right? Pulling out the arrow from the bleeding wound that Sir Manford can't remember. And this idea that he took all of these wounds, every one of those scars comes from something Arlen did. For somebody who doesn't remember his name, doesn't remember who he is. Doesn't remember what he did for them. Except for the goat. Who we're gonna get to. I was gonna say soon, but not that soon, really. We'll get to him in like, an hour.

[A]

Miles to go and many dick jokes to make before we get to Baylor. Breakspear.

[B]

That could be the logline for the pod.

[A]

Miles to go and many dick jokes.

[B]

To make sure we contain multitudes here at the House of R. What did you think, Jo? A small little tweak or update here in the book. It basically seems that Arlen just dropped dead of a cold in the rain, right? And here he's got this, like, festering arm wound. Mirri Maz Duur not here to put a pulse. This on. That would have gone fine. It would have gone fine. Yeah, sure would have gone fine.

[A]

She's. She's a renowned healer.

[B]

You can always trust her. Always. Another day done, he would sigh. And who knows what the morrow will. Will bring a dunk. Well, one morrow had brought rains that soaked them to the bones, and the one after had brought wet, gusty winds and the next a chill. By the fourth day, the old man was too weak to ride. And now he was gone. Only a few days passed. He had been singing as they rode the old song about going to Goldtown to see a fair maid. But instead of Gold Town, he'd sung of Ashford. I mean, some. Some great bars on the updated Ashford lyrics from Arlen here. What did you think of this? Because, like, on the one hand, I used to have a running argument with my. My best pal Alison, particularly in college, where I was like, we're in Syracuse, New York.

[A]

It's cold.

[B]

I have wet hair. I don't want to go outside. I don't want to catch a cold. And she would say, that's not how science works. You can't catch a cold from having wet hair in chilly weather. So I always thought, like, Arlen just getting getting cold and wet and then dying was real fodder.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

In my finals in Koska about this. But it seems that he rolled around in a sex bed with a gaping arm wound and then died.

[A]

So.

[B]

Knows what he picked up. What do you think? Which of these do you like more? Does it feel appropriate that Arlen would have just gotten old and died from an illness? Does it feel more appropriate that one of these. One of these wounds finally felled him and caught up to him after all this time?

[A]

I like the wound aspect. It made me think of not the text, but I was Thinking about seeing a lot about the Hound in this episode. And I'll. I'll bring it up a couple times, but yeah, because like Brienne, another huge. Well noted.

[B]

But when he whipped that out to take. Also to take a piss.

[A]

But also that's not why I was thinking about him. But I'm glad that that's why you were thinking about him. I was thinking about him as like. Like Brienne, he is another sort of like famed fighter on the road, but has like very anti night sentiments. Not. Not like Bran, but just sort of like he's like, yeah, so we'll talk about that second. But I was thinking about him because I was thinking about in season four, episode seven, when Thrones was so good. Mockingbird. Oh, yeah. And Weiss and Benioff added this sequence with this or the dialogue with this dying man that the Hound and Arya meet on the road, right. Which they took from Beckett, essentially. Right. The Hound says they meet a man dying on the road. He's got a wound. The Hound says, that's not gonna get better. And the man says, doesn't seem so a bad way to go. The Hound says, haven't you had enough? Of what? I know. Time to go. Take matters into my own hands. The thought has occurred to me, so why go on? Habit. Nothing could be worse than this. Maybe nothing is worse than this. Aria says nothing isn't better or worse than anything. Nothing is just nothing. But that idea of, like, habit I'm continuing because of habit. And so Arlen just sort of doing what he does. Look at me, I'm. I've got a festering on my arm, but I'm gonna keep and. And giving some coins to the peasants and splitting salt beef with my squire under a leaking tree. That's just what I'm gonna do. On the Hound front, yes. I've got a couple passages here. The Hound talking about knighthood, right? Because, like this is, you know, we get Florin and Jonquil, which of course makes us think about Sans and the Hound. And we can talk about that later when we get there. But as George R.R. martin has said, this story is so much about the idealism, the romanticism of knights and then the reality of what knighthood actually is. We see some of the brutal sort of clashing of bodies and horses and lances and shields inside of this episode. Right. This is one thing the Hound said. Just as if I was one of those true knights you love so well. Yes. What do you think a night is for, girl? You think it's all taking favors from ladies and looking fine. And gold plate nights are for killing. I killed my first man at 12. I've lost count of how many I've killed since then. High lords with old names, fat rich men dressed in velvet, knights puffed up like bladders with their honors. Yes, and women and children too. They're all meat and I'm the butcher. Let them have their lands and their gods and their gold. Let them have their ss. As long as I have this, there's no man on earth I need fear.

[B]

Your father's a killer, your brother's a killer. They're all killers.

[A]

And also, he says there are no true knights, no more than there are gods. If you can't protect yourself, die and get out of the way of those who can. Sharp steel and strong arms rule this world. Don't ever believe any different. So, you know, the Hound, for all of his flaws, et cetera, et cetera, had this very cynical, clear eyed view of what, what is knighthood and Sansa the dreamer, right? And so that speaking for George, in terms of George's ideas of like George who loves Ivanhoe, but George who also wants to paint a very real, real picture of the brutal nature of this, like, feudal system that he is covering. And I, I just, I don't know, I think it's so interesting. Like last week I was just Jamie and Bran, Jaime and Brienne, Jaime and Bran. And that is constantly what we think about Brienne, specifically when we think about Ser Duncan the Tall. But the Hound just kept coming up for me in this and I have like more, more moments that it made me think of that. But I just think it's like, interesting to think about everything that George has said across his many works about knighthood and his derision towards it. And also thinking about the Hound and Arya on the road and thinking about Bran and pot on the road and these like, you know, Ira cited the Hound and Arya as sort of like foundation duos that he wanted to pursue.

[B]

So I love it. The Hound is very present in my thoughts as well. And I love everything you just shared and like the fact that, you know, he is a character who his, his origin story is betrayal, right? And being let down by a person, his brother, who should have cared for him, protected him, kept him safe. But what did he do? He pressed his face into the fire. Right. And so for so much of his worldview and perspective to have been shaped by the idea that the person who you might look to as big and strong and able to keep you safe might be the one to hurt you. That being the foundational text of your life. I think also.

[A]

It'S Sir Gregory Cobain. Right. His brother's a knight and he's like, in the house. That's a knight.

[B]

Fuck it.

[A]

I don't want it.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. I love that you mentioned the leaking tree. I think we were both. Of all the visuals we get.

[A]

Should we call Duncan the night of the leaking tree?

[B]

Yeah, that would be great. That would be great. I was so touched by that little.

[A]

Glimpse of them and them just, like, laughing together.

[B]

Laughing and huddled. And the way that, you know, Dunk is really like the caregiver in that moment. He's providing the hard salt beef to Arlen to eat, but also he's, like, nuzzling him. He's kind of keeping him warm. And the way that Arlen looks up at him just with, like, love and gratitude as he's in this weak, kind of shrinking, increasingly enfeebled state. I just thought that that was so sweet. But also this ide. As Dunk thinks through all of the aspects of. What does it mean to be a knight? What makes a night a night? What does it mean to be a night? What is it? What makes a hedge night a hedge night? What does it mean to be a hedge night? What part of that is pure and true and truer, actually, than the other glorious thing, this kind of moment that, like, not just affection, but shared currency.

[A]

Right.

[B]

The shared currency of the experience that you had and the life you lived and the memories you formed and the decision you made every day to, like, go do it that way. And I think for Dunk, I love that he's a character who can say, I want more than that. I don't want to just have somebody roll my body into a gently carry and place my body into a very shallow grave on the side of the road. I want a household one day. I want to be above the salt.

[A]

Right above the salt at the table. Yeah.

[B]

And still hold a moment like that as a precious thing in his heart. I just love.

[A]

What does it mean to care for someone. Yeah. You know, and so to watch into your life to.

[B]

To.

[A]

To have him lose Arlen. And. And one of our listeners wrote in very beautifully about this. The way in which Dunk selling sweet food is just like losing another piece of Sir Arlen as he does so. Right. So we'll talk about that when we get there. But, you know, a Dunk all alone in the world is sort of how you started this idea of. Of the story last week. But, like, he. He has egg. That's right. And to watch them, like watch the puppet show with. With shared wonder or to watch the tourney with delight and excitement. And even though they both. And then they like have anxiety attacks at the same time. Exactly. You know, but they're like enjoying, like playing tug of war together. You know what I mean? Just like enjoying their time together is very important.

[B]

And that's also part of what I loved about these visuals that we get to see whether it is to your training point from a few moments ago, that Dunk is really the.

[A]

The.

[B]

The dominant one. Even though he is the one theoretically being trained and taught here, he's the provider, the nurturer that even though he is in these moments, in these sequences, still the squire.

[A]

These things are fluid.

[B]

He had shifted into a different role before the end.

[A]

Quick email from Ashley, longtime listener. She says first time emailer. I would like to know Mal's jerky. Rex, please. I mentioned on Talk of Thrones this is.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

This is. This episode is called named after jerky. Essentially you love jerky. You eat it on the plane like a maniac.

[B]

Yeah, we've got. We've always have it at home. Like to have it as a snack sometimes.

[A]

No free ads.

[B]

I like archers quite a bit.

[A]

Okay. Great.

[B]

Turkey jerky. They have some nice flavors. You prefer turkeys as well?

[A]

Turkey to beef?

[B]

Just depends. I like to have. No, not necessarily. That is my go to. On a plane, actually. I like that, that. That Archer's turkey jerky. That's a great one. You know, what I had a week ago for the first time in years made me feel like I was Jim Hopper in season three of Stranger Things.

[A]

Slim Jim.

[B]

Slim Jim.

[A]

How did you step into a Slim Jim?

[B]

It was a. I said the reason is sad, so I won't go into the details, but it was a desperate moment where I really needed a snack. And it was something that was there in a place I was. And I bought it.

[A]

I'm glad. I'm glad it sustained you in your army.

[B]

I was sustained in a way that Ser Arlan is not when he droops on the horse. Did you think of Drogo? You know, a cowl that cannot ride is no cowl. Like, what about a knight who cannot ride? All of these associations with other moments from Thrones stories in the past and the future are past, but canonically the future, just great stuff. Here are some of the lords who Dunk is appealing to. House Florent, another house of the Reach. Thrones fans spent some memorable time with the Florence Stannis wife.

[A]

Yeah, they love Selyse. She's Baratheon's, everyone's favorite.

[B]

She's a shared fav. House Hayford. A Crownland's house. Lord Hayford, he is one of many who died on the Redgrass field. This is the moment where Dunk. One of the moments where as you noted on Talk to the Thorns, we hear in this episode these subtle allusions to the Blackfyre rebellion. Dunk says here Ser Arland fought side by side with your brothers at the Red Grass. His squire, his own nephew was killed in the battle. So Lord Hayford had been Hand of the King to Daeron ii. Daeron, good. But that idea of the Red Grass as shorthand like we talked about on Sunday night, that there is not a person Dunk could be saying this to who would not know what that meant. That this, this seminal seismic, decisive, ultimately battle in the first Blackfyre Rebellion hangs over still casts a shadow over all of Westeros.

[A]

Would you also describe Ser Arland's unit as seminal, seismic and decisive?

[B]

Yes, I would. I would. I would. I would.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Roger of Pennytree, his squire, his own nephew was killed in the battle. Roger of Pennytree, Ireland, squire before Dunk killed by a mace to the face. We'll. We'll talk about him actually a little bit more in the book section today.

[A]

Later.

[B]

Later. But the fact that Roger dies. Very sad. Does mean that Arlen needs a squire. And this idea that we keep talking about of like chance meetings, people come into your. Your life. What is the circumstance that you find yourself in when you find themselves Dunks.

[A]

Inferiority complex, which is so interesting given like how large and imposing he is. But he is such like a humble, shy, nervous person. Part of that is he always felt like he was a usurper. Like it should have been Roger here, Roger would know what to do. What the hell do I know? I'm just from Flea Bottom. Like, I don't know how to be a squire. Roger would know better how to do this.

[B]

And the reason he's not here is.

[A]

Because he died took a mace to the face.

[B]

Not because I was chosen instead. And then Leo Tyrell, House Tyrell, our old pals, obviously. The lords of Highgard in the Reach. So Ash, as we mentioned last week, Ashford. Ashford Meadow. They serve the Tyrells. They're vassal lords to the Tyrells.

[A]

The lords paramount of the region.

[B]

Leo Tyrell. We've been tracking the excellent monikers in this story. Leo Longthorne is a good one.

[A]

It's about his lance.

[B]

It is about his lance, but it could be also okay about his dick. He is described as a peerless jouster in the text.

[A]

How do you feel?

[B]

One of the champions.

[A]

He will be one of the champions. Yeah. How do you feel about meeting him? Sort of like Tywin Lannister esque. Like in an apron.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like this. He's the lord paramount of the region. Yeah. And he's just like in the camp. Yeah. You know, sharp. Like getting his. Getting his weapons ready and. And sharpening his tools.

[B]

What do you think CR would.

[A]

Would do with weapons?

[B]

What I meant what do you think Sierra would do with sour leaf? How does it compare to the. The Zin?

[A]

I think now that we're on camera, he cannot go around with red stained teeth all the time.

[B]

That's what I. I liked seeing the sour leaf on Leo Longthorne's mouth because like everything else it had, it gave me cause to think about Benis coming in season two, Venice of the brownshield. Big sour leaf guy.

[A]

Do you feel like this sour leaf seed was planted here so that we can spend so much more time with sour leaf in season two?

[B]

Exactly. Anything else on the opening there?

[A]

No, just took us an hour to get through.

[B]

And there was a lot there. It was like two minutes of the episode. I had like 18 pages of notes. I think I actually had six.

[A]

Very normal.

[B]

Love the show. Egg. Egg has some.

[A]

Some.

[B]

Some counsel for Dunk. He's got some ideas and he's just here to workshop them. He opens, though, with a, I think, fair and reasonable question given what he has witnessed. Was he a night?

[A]

Was he a night? Will there be boobs?

[B]

Can't have been a very good one. Will there be boobs? You know, we're going to get to that. Tales growing the telling idea from Baylor. But it is interesting to think about the shape of your legacy or your impact or your hold on memory absent the kind of life that leads to tales grow in the telling. It doesn't mean that you didn't do anything of consequence, but how do people think about that or feel about that? The fact that Dunk has to defend Sir Arlen is such an affront when he did watch him do all of these things. But of course, Egg is like. Like, I love when you say you have to suffer your master dying over and over again. He calls it undignified. Well, it's undignifying.

[A]

But he's like, I would not leave you, sir. Like, it's just very sad. It's very sweet and empathetic. Like, it's very like he's. He's being saucy and. And. And snarky and all the things that he is. But he's just like. He has empathy, real empathy to be.

[B]

Alone when you're the only one with your memories and you just have to keep repeating this horrible thing. What did you think of his counsel to Dunk? You are a knight of the realm, Sir. You can say, fuck their permission. Ride into the list, call out Longthorn Tyrell and turn his asshole spicy into a lance.

[A]

Very spicy.

[B]

What does it mean to be a knight? Does being a knight mean you don't have to ask for permission? Just do what you want?

[A]

I. Well, it made me think about when Dunk was talking to Lionel Baratheon last week. Week. And he's like, the stakes are different for me than they are for other people. Some people have this worldview because they come from money and comfort and privilege and they can, like, sort of think themselves better than other people or whatever the case may be. I've got everything. I'm selling my horse to buy some armor. Don't worry. I do have some coppers for the puppet girl. But other than that, I am pinching all the pennies just to be here. Stakes are different for me. No chance. No choice. You know. Yeah. So it just depends on your worldview.

[B]

It does. Why do you treat these royal lap dogs like they're your betters? This is something else that Egg says to Dunk. And it's interesting to think about whether an idea like that can actually take root with someone like Dunk. Dunk of Flea Bottom. Right. An orphan from Flea Bottom. Squire to a hedge knight. Nothing to his name. Who looks at these lords and these royals as figures of heft and consequence. Famous names. So what is required? These words from Egg.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Other happenings in the story for Dunk to say, I belong here. You know the moment at the end when he's watching the joust and he flashes to Sir Arlen the gap between Arlen and Dunk's experience and the big league all star boys who are out there on the tourney field. It's a sh. Even though Dunk understands rationally what he is seeking to do here, it is like a. A shock to the system to confront in real time the arena that he has entered.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I like that he hears this from Ag. And it's interesting to think about what his journey to embracing that might actually be.

[A]

We talked a lot about this idea of upward mobility. We'll talk about it when we get to the Kingsguard that he meets and stuff like that. But like this idea of knighthood, hedge, knighthood, tourneys, the Kingsguard itself. When you think about Kristen Cole as an opportunity for upper mobility.

[B]

Yes. Yeah.

[A]

Inside of a class system that is usually very rigid.

[B]

Yes. You know, we've seen that. There's so much about Dunk that is, like, superior, better, morally, ethically, in terms of his spirit, his disposition. Can he embrace that in full? The targets are here.

[A]

Okay, can I talk about this for a second? Right, yeah. So they come in, the banners are flying. Yeah. Both you and I and George R.R. martin are very happy that the. The. There are feet on the sigil, et cetera, et cetera.

[B]

How much of George's embrace of this show is specifically about the updated targ sigil for banners with the proper number of feet.

[A]

Can't you see the banners, you giant cunt? Is a great line.

[B]

Incredible.

[A]

Okay, but think about this. Like, they come in, trumpets, banners, pomp and circumstance. Aryon Targaryen being as. As imperious as he can possibly be. How sad is this compared to any dragon, let alone Caraxis Landing When Daemon shows up somewhere, like, previously, you're not.

[B]

Asking who it is.

[A]

Then when the Targaryens showed up, they showed up on giant flying beasts, and you were like, oh, shit, Caraxes is here. Oh, no, Vhagar's here. We had to park Veigar over in the forest because we can't even fit him on the tourney ground. Yeah. And those Targaryens are not coming to this goddamn tourney because it's way, way, way beneath them.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

You know, but just like, seeing those banners fly is just like such a sad, Like.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Visual echo representation of what they used to be, which was, you know, these mythic people. Mythic God, like, people showing up in the. On these winged beasts. And now they're like, we've got banners. They've still got dragons on them.

[B]

Yeah. There's dragon right there, Jason, with the right number of legs. That's a great shout. I like. You know, obviously, the retinue is larger. The procession is bigger. There are more attendants and people. And we'll hear, like, the master of horse later about, like, how am I gonna find room for.

[A]

Right.

[B]

For all of these horses? But, yeah, there is. They are no longer in the era of the undeniable presence that defined their dynasty. It's a great show.

[A]

One of our. One of our listeners in. In the comments for Talk of Thrones said Targaryens and their flop Era, which I just, like, really love.

[B]

Oh, man. The good news is that while there is no dragon to spot whether or not you saw and identified the banners, you get a. A handy. A handy aid here.

[A]

We love a herald.

[B]

Little assist from the Ashford Herald. This was so iconic that we had to revisit it in real time. Carlos, can we. Can we see this clip? Our Lord of Ashford humbly welcomes the.

[A]

Great and honorable Baelor Targaryen, firstborn son of King Daeron, the good Prince of.

[B]

Dragonstone, Hand of the King and heir.

[A]

To the Iron Throne.

[B]

And his brother, Myrka. Incredible, Mirka.

[A]

Incredible. And May Carr is also here. Is really funny. But also his pronunciation of May Carr, Mia Carr, is like truly psychotic.

[B]

It threw me. It threw me.

[A]

Meoka.

[B]

There's some wild pronunciations. And his brother Mirkah in this episode. Just some great spare. Not the air energy in this intro. You know, we. Later in the. In the Great hall scene that we're gonna go through in great detail, we get that line from Maekar about how Father bade us attend this miserable circus. We've been talking about this from the beginning. The. As you just said, this is not. This is not the place that the Targs of old would have bothered to be.

[A]

Do you feel like this is a little like. And his brother Faramir is also here.

[B]

Well, does that mean that you might one day be making a mead named after Maekar?

[A]

Mead car.

[B]

Give it a go. It sounds delicious.

[A]

I would make it.

[B]

It's a little spicy. A little sassy.

[A]

Yeah, a little peppery.

[B]

Little peppery. Little peppery. I like it. Anything else that you want to add here? This post Blackfyre rebellion. No dragon stretch for the Targs. And that they are compelled to do in order to remain present, visible and of consequence in Westerosi history.

[A]

Well, I do think it's interesting that Maekar for son, you know, he doesn't look like the youngest son, but he is the youngest son. Sam Sproul. Happy to have him here. We love Sam Sproul. We spent a lot of time with him in Fargo. Doctor who, Some of us go way back with him on some other less advised projects. But he's great and so glad that he's here. And that's a reference to Bastard Executioner, a show that I watched in full, even though it was really terrible. Sorry, fx, I love you, but that show sucked anyway. But the fact that his son's like that Darren is missing. And he's like my older brother. Everyone likes him better than me. Everyone thinks he's better than me. And his eldest son is here riding.

[B]

In the tourney in his shiny armor.

[A]

And my son is just, just missing.

[B]

Got to send the kings guard to go look for him. Tough egg asks to excuse himself back to camp. He's like, you know, maybe there's some thieves about. I should go check him. And Dunk says, okay, go do that cuz I've got a plan. I've got an idea. Which you know, given the context of what unfolds in the episode, certainly seems to be deliberately. Now that he has seen them arrive, heard them arrive and introduce seeking out.

[A]

Balor Breakspear is a wild textual departure.

[B]

You knew Arlen. So what do you make of this? Because in the, in the novella I.

[A]

Actually don't like it.

[B]

I it. Okay, we'll set the stage. So in the novella, basically Dunk is like, I gotta go find Plumber again. Makes his way to the room.

[A]

I guess I go back and say, hey man. Yeah, all those nights are dead.

[B]

They all suck.

[A]

And they've got some nasty sourly plans Plumber.

[B]

And he finds Plumber in a conversation with some other men and does not know who they are.

[A]

And he's like juicing. Who are these guys in black and red? I don't, I, I, I don't know. And makes a bunch of blunders in front of them.

[B]

Quite a.

[A]

Doesn't know that they're the princess.

[B]

Quite a few. It came to Dunk that he had walked in on something that he ought never have heard. Why don't you like this? It's a more active move from Dunk. Right.

[A]

Because it's just not who Dunk is. Yeah, he's not a planner. He's not thinking ahead. He's not thinking strategically and he's not thinking audaciously, which is like I'm just gonna go put myself in front of the heir to the throne.

[B]

Right? Is it, It's a degree too bold at this point.

[A]

I'm not mad about it, but I just think it's like, like an uncharacteristic difference.

[B]

I really love in the novella Dunk happening upon a circumstance and especially because it really heightens this idea of like, I have wandered into a thing that I do not understand in a place that I do not belong and have to in real time kind of figure out how to navigate that circumstance also.

[A]

I mean I, I guess he does it in the book anyway, but I'm just like, where's the security? We'll do the throne.

[B]

Like we love a. I'VE wandered through a passage. And I think it is very funny that he basically overhears a couple of the women at Ashford say, like, these.

[A]

Fucking princes need to wash their hands.

[B]

Holding reins.

[A]

I guess. Yeah. Do the little.

[B]

The hand wash bowl. But you know, we love a trip through a tunnel or a passageway.

[A]

Yeah. Your hero's Blood and Cheese. Where.

[B]

Where exactly Love, I mean, Blood and Cheese. I stand by it. Too tame. Blood and Cheese was too tame. I stand by the tape take. We all stand by the take. He should not be able to just wander. That's worrying.

[A]

It's very, very perturbing.

[B]

I mean, but Roland really needed to take a shit.

[A]

So there's still the same vibe here. There's still the same vibe in the show. Especially like finding himself drinking with Lyle Baratheon or whatever.

[B]

Yes. There's.

[A]

There's a way in which Dunk is like the Forest Gump of Westeros where he's just like, right place, right time in these moments of history. And here I am. And who am I? Oh, I'm talking to Baylor Breakspear and Lionel Baratheon. Like, no big. It's fine.

[B]

So I thought you meant couldn't wait to touch Jenny's boobs.

[A]

Well, that'd be good.

[B]

But then immediately. All right. So I said I would stop talking about dicks.

[A]

You were wrong.

[B]

So I will.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The show is slightly recalibrating Dunk's activeness and putting himself in those situations. Obviously Raymond brought him into the tent with Lionel, but then Dunk stayed made and made a night of it. Etc. Which, yeah, is, it's. It's distinct. He meets Aryan Bright Flame here. He's pulled out of watching this arrival by some of the very snide, superior lines that we had heard in the trailers. Boy, stop gaping. Seat of my horse. Not clever enough. Knighthood has fallen on sad days. Finn Bennett is here as the bright prince Aryan. This is the stretch in the novella where we get the line that I've quoted a few times. He felt ilities or enough around the lords and their pavilions. He had had no business speaking the princess. That's part of what makes as we were just saying the like, I am going to go appeal directly to the second most senior and important and powerful man in the kingdoms. A little bit of a stretch for Dunk at this point, but the discomfort that he feels in this moment, navigating this real time exchange with Aryan is significant for Dunk. Would you like to quickly take us to Wigwatch TM with Joanna Robinson? TM corner on the short haired targara that we're seeing.

[A]

I'd be thrilled because this is a wig and it's, it looks great. Fantastic. If you told me that Finn Bennett had like fried his hair white blonde I would have believed you. But this is a wig and it's like he has posted about it and I'm just like, I'm really, it's really, really good. Also the way that they frame. I feel like they made Finn Bennett like stand in a hole or something like that because he's not like a short dude. He's like about 6 foot, maybe a little.

[B]

It's the opposite of the the Kid Harrington, Jon Snow apple card for the Sons. He's like we were going to just.

[A]

Dig a little neg box like sort of situation but he's looking up to look down as the kingsguard will mention later. But yeah, they just like he shows up on his horse, he's so tall, he's so proud. And then he hops down and he's just like looking up at Dunk. It's pretty great.

[B]

Great stuff. We don't get a lot of Arian in this episode. If you've seen any of the.

[A]

But what a great impression.

[B]

It's a great, it's a great impression. If you've seen any of the trailers for the season, you know he's going to make his presence felt. He is going to be a figure in this story. This is Maekar. I can't even say it the way that Harold said it and I frankly won't.

[A]

He said it like meerkat, but like Mia car.

[B]

So Aryan is Makar's second son. He's got four sons, some daughters too. Do they bear mentioning?

[A]

You know, do they have names?

[B]

How happy were you when Lord Ashford's daughter got a name? Gwen.

[A]

Yeah, Gwyn spelled very specially.

[B]

Great, great stuff. So Aryan is like a little visually toned down for the show compared to how he is described in the books. He still looks great. He's definitely like rocking the tar colors. There's the papa red with the black. Obviously he's got the, the signature platinum hair. But in the book he is described as very dragon forward in his vision, his visual identity. This guy loves Mercury Church and he loves to brand himself. Right. The speaker wore a black cloak bordered in scarlet satin. But underneath was Raymond, bright as flame, all reds and yellows and golds. And then his elsewhere his shield is described. Aryan bore a three headed dragon on his shield but it was rendered in colors much more vivid than valar's one head was orange, one yellow, one red. And the flames they breathed had the sheen of gold leaf. This guy is like, I know that every time you do a slight tweak, you break out an alternate jersey. More people buy it. More people buy it. They love the alternate jerseys. Aryan, we'll talk about him more in future weeks.

[A]

We sure will. I, I, I'll get back to it. But I do want to talk about sort of like, how dragony are these targs as, as we get into Baylor and Mika.

[B]

Mika. Before Dunk makes his way to meet Balor and Maekar, he has a moment with a horse and then a moment with the kingsguard, one of whom is very hot. So let's talk about this great scene.

[A]

So, like, in this, the screenwriting shorthand for like, you care about this character is have the character save the, the save the cat moment. Yes. Right. Have the character do something that is just automatically endearing so that people will care about that person. Save the horse.

[B]

I mean, it's great.

[A]

We will get some comments from one of our listeners a little bit later about how he went about doing it, but very endearing.

[B]

Incredibly sweet.

[A]

Aaron doesn't give a about his horse. He's like, I'm not a sable boy, but like, no one's taking care of this horse, so I will.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. Not a stable boy. Also not here to get you your wine or your winch.

[A]

And the Kingsguard are here to talk Targaryens.

[B]

That horse can kick an actual stable boy right in the face. Right in the face. Right in the face. I like that. We've talked a lot about how Dunk is speaking to Sweet Foot, speaking to his horses across these two episodes. And this horse we just met, he speaks to as well. He's like, I agree. You know, there are far too many people here. Like, I'm nervous, too. I'm anxious, too. It was, it, it was so, so winning. Just lovely. Absolutely lovely. Then we get the kind of comments from the side. You know, we hear it before we see who the speakers are. Jokes about the pretty ones. And then. Oh, he meant the princeling, not the palfrey. On the subject of pretty ones, Sir Roland of Craig hall has entered the chat. Sir Donnell of Duskendale is also here. And then Sir Willem Wilde is in.

[A]

The back and his brother Willem Wilde.

[B]

And his sworn brother Willem, he's also here. He'll call Donald off later.

[A]

Okay. So these guys.

[B]

Yeah, they all look like.

[A]

So they're all. You mentioned how hot you think Roland is. You've Mentioned it several times to me. You mentioned on top of the throne background, you look great. But both Roland and Donald look like they're cut from, like, the same sort of, like, prototype. Right. Which is just sort of like very handsome, neatly trimmed beard. Very like, young Barrison Selmy. Or, like, you know, slightly older. Older. Jamie. There's just like this, like, we are Kingsguard. We're handsome.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

We're groomed.

[B]

We're the ideal.

[A]

Our. Our armor is so white. This is the whitest Kingsguard armor we've seen.

[B]

I love this very canonically, and it's very canonically accurate.

[A]

And when you think about the King's garden, you think about the knight's watch. They're like two sides of the same coin. Right. Like, we will father no children. We will know, you know, own no lands. We will know no women.

[B]

Some of us will fuck our sisters. We will sorry.

[A]

And father some children that will sit on the throne. But don't worry about it.

[B]

But so many vows. Don't they make you swear and swear?

[A]

Allegedly, the Night's Watch and the Kingsguard are sort of taking similar vows, the white and the black. Like, this is. This is sort of like what it's supposed to be. And so, like, this gleaming white, pure. You know, it's bullshit.

[B]

But, like, yeah, we loved the moment in House of the Dragon season two when they were talking about the. The white cloak and how then soiled and sullied it was. And so when I said a couple minutes ago, as you're describing how rightly, how handsome and chiseled they are, the ideal, it's like, well, what do you. What have you been taught? The ideal is supposed to be what it's supposed to look like. But then what is the reality behind that? This thing we keep talking about that George loves to explore so much.

[A]

I mean, they're beautiful. And they're also talking about, where do we go take a shit.

[B]

Yeah. And you know who else is hot? Like, Criston Cole. Looks great. How's he doing on the. The Knightly Valor front? Who was most top of mind for you on the. The Kingsguard for front? Eric and Arc. Yep.

[A]

I'm literally never thinking about Eric association.

[B]

No, I. Look, I always.

[A]

I do always think about Sir Baris and Salmi.

[B]

That to me is like, obviously for us is like, yeah, topless. I loved that Chris was broke out. Not. He did not get the name correct, and that's okay. But I love that he went to. To. To Arthur Dane.

[A]

Were you thinking that was crazy? Sort of the Morning when you saw Sir Arlen step out and you're like, talk about Sword of the morning. Yeah.

[B]

See, you give me grief and yet you do it too. And look how proud you are of yourself right now. And guess what?

[A]

You should be. That's for you. It's a gift for you. I wouldn't do it if you weren't here. You would do it if I wasn't here.

[B]

You would make a phone in the.

[A]

Microphone and just go, I won't would my wood.

[B]

That Sword of the Morning was excellent, excellent work.

[A]

Great job.

[B]

There is no greater symbol of knightly valor to Dunk than the Kingsguard.

[A]

Right?

[B]

This is the thing you strive for, right? For anyone. And especially for Duncan's like, I'm a squire. I'm going to be a knight. I'm a knight. I'm here. I'm at the tourney. I'm going to enter my name in the list. Holy. The Kingsguard are here. Oh, my God. I'm in a conversation with members of the Kingsguard. The seven champions of the Kingsguard were the most recent warriors in all the Seven Kingdoms, saving only perhaps the crown prince Baelor Breakspear.

[A]

Him and his brother Mika.

[B]

So again, what makes a knight a knight, Right? Is it that you reached a certain.

[A]

Is it how gleaming white your armor is?

[B]

Yeah. Is it the sheen of your armor?

[A]

Is it that your crab daddy bought you a gig in the. You know, on the King's.

[B]

Was it you or Chris who called him a Nepo baby on Talk the Thrones? I think Chris, that was excellent.

[A]

That sounds like a. That sounds like a cr.

[B]

What makes the knight a knight? You know Marin Trant was in the Kingsguard, right? Mandan Moore, Was he a true fucking knight. I've got beloved character who would argue otherwise? So there are the Kingsguards and Queen's Guard, of course. Across our stories, it's a fascinating group through which we can parse and. And assess these ideas. But it is also like the company Dunk is keeping it ash for history.

[A]

We should say Kristen Cole besmirches the Kingsguard with his actions. The kings are right now are like pretty good guy. Like they're. They're doing their job. Like there's no scandal rocking the Kings Guard right now.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Their armor is gleaming. They just need to know where to shit. They're being. They're talking a little on the targets. They're being pretty nice to Duncan.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Very welcoming. These are like pretty good tables, dudes.

[B]

I agree. Would you on the taking A shit front like the hay, I guess needs must. But no extra cloth. Like a bolt of cloth sitting around. Take a banner.

[A]

Who's washing that cloth?

[B]

Do they care?

[A]

Do they? The kings card care.

[B]

They don't care. They don't care. I didn't really get a kick. Got it done. Being like, oh, Dan. Before the week is out. Oh, man.

[A]

I just don't think.

[B]

Diarrhea dunk. Diarrhea dunk. So, Roland, just follow the poop Robin and you'll find a great place to.

[A]

I just don't think that hay is where I would go. I don't think hay is where I would go to first.

[B]

Yeah, it's just steam.

[A]

You don't want poison oak. But there are other. There are other. There are other leaves. Leaves around that one could use is what I'm saying. Such as elm leaves. Probably not oak leaves. They're pokey. But you know that there are like.

[B]

Yeah, hay sounds very pokey too.

[A]

Har. Sounds awful.

[B]

No, Not a fan. You mentioned that these are kind of chill, welcoming dudes and I really loved this. Where we're going to talk when we get to Baylor about how one of the most winning things about that scene, it's not just that he remembers Arlen, but he's like calling Dunk sir and telling him to rise. And he's not like, Lord Ashford is one who's like, do you have anything written down? Not Baylor. Not Baylor. Breakspear. Right. He's like, okay, here you are. A night among.

[A]

Because Lord Ashford's power is insecure.

[B]

Exactly. Exactly.

[A]

And Balor's like, I know who I am.

[B]

Sir Roland and Sir Donnell are very hospitable, very welcoming. They're like, well met, Sir Duncan Roland.

[A]

A little less so.

[B]

Well, he's. The bowels are stirring. You know, he has pressing business matters to the hedge.

[A]

Indeed.

[B]

You know, we've been tracking these moments where we can just see the show tells us. Finds a way to tell us how genuinely uniquely gigantic Dunk is.

[A]

Right, right. The.

[B]

The bop in the head on the. The door frame. Etc. So Roland, who is supposed to be not only a handsome man, but a man of physical might, one might say God's boy. Do you ride your horse into battle or does it ride you? Like, this is just Dunk's huge, great stuff, Donald.

[A]

I think we should make a super cut at some point of everyone giving Dunk elevator eyes. Because they all do. They're all like, just. Jesus Christ.

[B]

Donald. Ask where Duncan's from. No place, really. I know it. My family's from there. So he's like, oh, you're not a darklin. Shout out. Stefan. Stefan Darkland. He's a crabber. Son. Prince Drea. We talked about Davos.

[A]

I didn't miss it. I love you.

[B]

I just love that stretch with David. It's so funny. We will learn later and Dunk will learn later from ag fishing enthusiast. You know a lot of ocean facts, a lot of fish facts on from.

[A]

Young egg, my nephews. They know a lot of fish facts.

[B]

Is that so?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And did they also know that. Yeah, sure. Donald Sir Donnell is the son of a crabber, but his. His father is a crabbing tycoon.

[A]

They would have known that.

[B]

He's a mogul.

[A]

They're from San Francisco. They know. They know their way around a crowd. Crab.

[B]

He encourages Dunk nonetheless, Right? Donald says, same way we became crabbers.

[A]

I mean, money.

[B]

A little riddle. Yeah. Money, access. And, like, that's just one more thing Dunk doesn't have. Right? It's another way. Whether it's your famous name or the power of your house or money, that's. People have access to opportunity in a way that Dunk does not. But despite the coded language of the riddle here, he's not like, get the out of myself sight. He's curious, he's interested.

[A]

He's offering him hope. But it's hope you, too, can do this. Do you have piles of money?

[B]

Yeah. Is your daddy rich? Is your daddy rich? I got a kick out of the guy who. We had seen this in their trailer, and it made me laugh then, too. But the guy who.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Comes up with the horse. Are you playing bath? Would you move the. Out of the way. Out of the way. I liked the randos in this episode. I liked this guy. I liked the. Can't you see the banners, you dumb guy? I like the guy at the tourney who shouted, lord Ashford his sheep. You could see Maker chuckle a little bit at that.

[A]

Everyone had, like, a pretty jolly reaction to that.

[B]

Like, I wonder.

[A]

Lord Ashford looked a little uncomfortable, but everyone else was like, yeah, but it wasn't like, there are some Targaryens who would be like, kill him.

[B]

Right?

[A]

You know? Yeah.

[B]

Not. Not. Not these guys.

[A]

Targaryen looked a little like, kill him. But Maekar and Baelor were like, that was pretty funny.

[B]

You think this guy's ever been to the Vale? You think that's why he's ready to make jokes about fucking your sheep?

[A]

I know you never forked a bear.

[B]

Real Damon coded. Let's talk more about Baelor. And Maekar, who is also here. It's time for Dunk to make his pitch. I thought this scene ruled. This is one of my favorite stretches in any of the Dunk and Egg novellas. The scene in the. In the hedgerow.

[A]

Baelor's introduction is incredible.

[B]

And really the scene in the TV show met and exceeded my already very high expectations. I thought this was just lovely. We're going to kind of set the stage here. Then we're going to just talk a little bit more on the canon front about who these guys are. And then we're going to talk about why this scene worked and what it meant to us. Darren has done this before. We hear Dunk has made his way in. He's listening, he's. He's entered, he's eavesdropping into this conversation about how two of Mayar's sons are missing. Darren has done this before. Baylor says, you should not have commanded him to enter the list. And then later we hear no doubt Sir Roland will turn him up at Aegon along with him. We see.

[A]

So Darren and Aegon are missing.

[B]

Yes, we see.

[A]

And sir and Lady Gwen's like, maybe they're dead in a dish somewhere.

[B]

Real shit story.

[A]

She loves a true crime podcast.

[B]

Yes. She's watched every season of Only Murders in the Building.

[A]

Yeah. She's a big Nancy Gracehead. Like she's, she's.

[B]

Remember that move she made with Dunk?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So it seemed to me at first like she was kind of like flirting a little, but then she's really like talking her shit. I'm the queen of love and beauty. This is my name day tourney and they gave me a fucking name.

[A]

That's the other thing is like, and this is. He says this in the book.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

But he's like like Lord Ashford's daughter who doesn't have a name.

[B]

Not so fair. I prefer the puppet girl.

[A]

Right. It's a little weirder if like an a grown man were to say that about 13 year old girl. So we're like, the ages are different in the book.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

But I like that like she's the queen. I like this like immaturity of her because like she's the queen of love and beauty. She is the reigning paragon of womanhood at this tourney. And she's just a 13 year old girl who wants to us, she wants to gossip, she wants to talk some shit. She's like, you're no use to me. You're not. You're not willing to talk shit. This is terrible. And Leaves and so like, you know, the ideal versus the reality. What's the reality? It's just a 13 year old girl who's like, did you hear that the princes are missing and they're. Maybe they're dead in a ditch somewhere. Wars have been started for less.

[B]

What a gossip. What? I. Yeah, I love that.

[A]

That.

[B]

And that her birthday is her father's excuse for holding this, this tournament and bringing all of these powerful lords into his backyard to. If you make him feel powerful and important.

[A]

If you were to take one image of one woman in this episode. Yeah, maybe it's the. The bare ass of the woman who has just enjoyed herself with Sir Ireland in the cottage. And I really do hope she enjoyed herself. But like, but I think it's. It's Tanzel as Jonquil, like high above everyone. Like that is real queen of love and beauty shit right there.

[B]

Not too tall.

[A]

Yeah. For puppets.

[B]

For puppets.

[A]

Incredible.

[B]

Incredible stuff. My queen of love and beauty. It's red bayonet and daisy for me. Missed him this up. Oh, missed him.

[A]

I thought you were gonna say it was the horse.

[B]

I mean, obviously, obviously you know how I feel about darling sweet foot. We can see right away. Baylor composed proper, understands how to conduct himself with a certain level of decorum and graciousness. Maker.

[A]

Pretty rude, Mika.

[B]

And Mika, do not curse our gracious host. Baylor says. I said me, not him. It's just the brotherly energy, the inferiority complex from Maker. As the fourth son of King Darren ii, so the family tree they are. Baelor is the eldest son of the.

[A]

King, King Darren ii. Eldest son Baelor, hand of the king, heir to the throne, Prince of Dragonstone, Aerys.

[B]

Rhaegar.

[A]

Maker.

[B]

Prince Aerys was bookish and Prince Rhaegal mad, meek and sickly. Neither was like to cross half the realm to attend.

[A]

Attorney Prince Rhaegal tough would prance about naked in the castle. So we're not saying mad lightly. We're saying we're the level of mad. What level mad are we? We are prince about naked. Which is better than burn them all mad.

[B]

For sure.

[A]

You know, if you're going green Asians of mad, I would prefer prance about naked to burn them all.

[B]

But maybe he just had a giant dick like Sir Arlen and he wanted everyone to see it.

[A]

Well, maybe they would praise him rather than say Prince Rhaegal. He's mad. Prince Ares obsessed with his books. Does he know something about the prophecy?

[B]

How can it not be on our minds? Cat's paw coming up in a second here. Stay Tuned.

[A]

I can't wait. I love talking about the cat's paw.

[B]

It's the same. Here is a passage from the novella about just this. This chunk of the family tree. In this period of Targaryen history, King Daeron the Good had four grown sons. We just told you who they were. Three with sons of their own. The line of the dragon kings had almost died out during his father's day, but it was commonly said that Daeron II and his sons had left it secure for all time.

[A]

They hadn't.

[B]

It's a Game of Thrones story.

[A]

It's King Robert Baratheon, not King Robert Targaryen.

[B]

Bobby B. Hit him with a hammer also.

[A]

Actually, yeah, it's a problem when there are too many Targaryens running around, as we are currently experiencing our House of the Dragon experience. You might have overshot a little. King Daeron, maybe. He had like one good son and then two bad ones. And then he was like, gotta keep trying. And then he's like, all right, Nikar too. That'll do it.

[B]

And Darren II had absolutely no experience with what happened when there were too many siblings and bastard siblings in the mix. He definitely didn't fight as the Red Dragon in the Blackfyre Rebellion.

[A]

I mean, it's weird to say they.

[B]

Love a civil war.

[A]

It's weird to say the line of the dragon kings had almost died out during. Does this feel like a contradiction from George to you?

[B]

Well, as you've noted, George crafted the Hedge Knight novella before. Before flushing out coming up with the Blackfyre Rebellion, the rest of the canon in this period of history, and as we've noted a few times. But basically, Blackfyre is like a decade and a half before the events of this novella. So recent enough history that it casts a shadow over everything still. But it wasn't yesterday. 13 years, right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And George had some lore to build out. So Balor has two sons, Valar, who we'll meet in this episode, and Mataris Maekar has four, as mentioned.

[A]

Don't worry about Matarys.

[B]

That's a solid name.

[A]

Name.

[B]

I like that name. Valar is a good name, too.

[A]

Valar. Two Rs at the end, just in case. Okay.

[B]

That's a great George spelling on the.

[A]

On the. Sort of like, Gwyn and Lady Gwyn and Dunk sort of poking and sneaking around. Yeah. I think this idea of, like, who can go where is interesting. Right. Like, where can servants go where. This is something that George is so preoccupied in House of the Dragon. Yeah, right. Like, who could Be my source on this. Right. Mushroom, the, you know, servants, et cetera, et cetera. Who's. Who's sneaking and creeping and. And in the room. But nobody noticed them. Right. So what is Dunk here? What is Gwyn here? Where do horrors go as. As George is. Is want to wonder but like who can sort of permeate the wrong ranks of society in this way? I think is really interesting.

[B]

Yeah, I love this Gwen.

[A]

Gwen. She's not allowed in the room. She's just a girl. But she can listen.

[B]

So can Dunk. Boy, does he. Does he hear quite a bit. So who is. Who is in the scene? Who are we talking? Obviously Lord Asher is there. Plumber is there. And his facial expressions are quite memorable. Balor and Makear. Let's talk just a little bit more about who these fellas are and what their stature and standing in the realm is before we talk about a little bit of what Baylor and Duncan Dunk share. So Birdie Carville is here playing Baylor.

[A]

What a thrill.

[B]

Balor, as I've said, one of my favorite characters in the canon. Just a delight to have him on the screen. Name stuff, go. This is all going to be presented as witch stuff. Go. Name stuff, go. Baylor Breakspear. Break Spear. As you explained on Talk to Thrones. Sick Moniker. One of my favorites.

[A]

It's really good.

[B]

Is it the Laughing Storm?

[A]

No, but what is.

[B]

But Break Spear is awesome. And he got it from Unhorse Sing at the age of 17 at his his Aunt Daenerys wedding tourney. Another attorney, Damon Blackfire.

[A]

Have you heard of him? Lots people haven't heard of him yet, but they will. Damon Blackfire is a big deal. So to have the Blackfyre rebellion.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Damon Blackfyre. Most people named Damon are people you want to pay attention to in this world. And Damon Blackfire is a big fucking deal. And 17 year old bail Baylor breaks beer was like you, dude.

[B]

And it stuck.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that name stuck. And it should have. He is also referred to as the Hammer in the Hammer and the Anvil. A song in lore that lives in lore. A song about the two brothers here. Maekar is the Anvil. We'll talk about him more in a minute. We are fittingly talking about Baylor. First, the Hammer Blackfyre Rebellion. Red Grass Field as you described on Talk of Thrones. This move where Balor's forces are the hammer leading the enemy. The foe crunch into the wall of Maekar's forces the Anvil. And a century later, in the events of A Song of Ice and Fire, of Game of Thrones, Barristan Selmy, who you just said is like the knight who pops into your mind first. When we think about what makes the knight a knight, the Kingsguard. He talks about this still a century later because it lives in. In legend. It lives in lore and the telling. But also, it helps if you make.

[A]

A song about it.

[B]

It really does. It helps if you make a song about it. His actual name, Bael Balor. Thrones fans, of course, have heard the name Balor before. It is the name of one of the most famous Game of Thrones episodes ever. Season one, Episode nine, the Great Sept of Baylor.

[A]

Those.

[B]

The Great Sept of Baylor is not. This guy is named for the guy the sept was named for. So Baylor the First, Baylor the Blessed, a prior Targaryen king. The sept was named for him. That episode is named Balor because it's obviously taking place of that sept in a key moment. So Baylor Breakspear. This Baler who's here is named for that Baylor. That's name stuff. Go. Now it's time for hair stuff. Go. Joanna, I'm not sure if you noticed this guy does not have silver hair.

[A]

Close cropped dark hair.

[B]

I love it. We love a dark hair. Dark spoilers. Jon Snow.

[A]

What if you actually just spoiled someone on Jon Snow's identity?

[B]

I mean, I guess it's possible, but I also feel that it happened and.

[A]

It happened in this, like, really creepy whisper thing that you just said.

[B]

Listen, we talk about the entire canon. That's what we do here on House of Darren II brought Dorne into the fold. As we've mentioned, this was a massive moment in. A consequential moment in Westerosi history. Part of cementing that is marrying into the Martell family.

[A]

Right. Seven Kingdoms.

[B]

So Baelor's mother is a Martell. This is how he's got dark hair. So he's got no dragons. None of them have dragons as a symbol of power because the dragons are gone. But Balor also doesn't have the signature iconic. I see it. You see Aryan's head. You know, he is a Targaryen.

[A]

Micah has the silver hair. I mean, it looks like he has like white hair. It looks like he's older, but he's actually younger. That's Targaryen silver hair. Yes, Aryan silver hair. Even Valar, who has dark hair, has at least a little silver patch on the back of his hair. It's very Kai Grady. I don't know if you. That's what Kai's hair looks like. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Love that yeah, Shout out, kids. Kai Balor does in the show get just the black and red tar colors. He's wearing different colors in the book. But still it's a little. He's more understated. He is not nearly as flashy.

[A]

This is what I wanted to talk about. Yeah. Both Makar Maykah and Balor are as described in the books, Balor more than makar, just like fairly understated. Like they're wearing black and red and. And Balor has the hand of the kingpin on and he's got this cool like sort of like drag tail almost thing that sort of wraps around him. But like unlike some targs we've seen, we don't have like dragons stitched into sort of every thing. And then like also compare it to the apples on the breastplates of the fossil ways or the sun's all over Lady Gwyn's dress or like, not to mention the antlers everywhere for Lionel. I mean, there's. When we get to the tourney, of course, the part of the reason they're so ostentatiously drawn rest in their sigil markings at the tourney is so that we, especially at night, contract who the they are out there. But like, previous targets that we've seen have been very dragon forward in their fashion. And these targs aren't.

[B]

Yes. Which is interesting because that would have been like one of the ways to compensate for the absence of maybe just.

[A]

Seems too try hard the literal thing. Yeah, it's the dragon, actually, but maybe.

[B]

So he dressed far more simply than most of the other lords. This is about Baylor. He does not look at Targaryen. In truth, with that dark hair. Dunk said as much to Egg. It's said he favored his mother. The boy reminded him she was a Dornish princess. There's a line in the world of ice and fire about how. Okay, so like, yeah, just like an every. An everyman. One of the dudes. One of the guys. Cool. Great. Winning. Charming. Love it. That's not how everybody felt about. About it from the world of ice and fire. Yet too many men looked upon Baylor's dark hair and eyes and muttered that he was more Martel than Targaryen. Even though he proved a man who could win respect with ease and was as open handed and as just as his father. So again, in the shadow of the Blackfyre Rebellion, the wake of that civil war, anything, Your absence of a dragon, the absence of the silver hair. Do you think you should try to bleach his hair? No, I Love this. I love that he's confident. He's like, this is who I am. You either with me or you don't. But there will be people in the room realm who use that as an excuse to say, why am I supposed to think that you're amazing? More target than my target again. So it's just an interesting aspect of kind of where he finds himself. I love the description on the, like, less flashy front of just this quiet confidence. Though he was dressed very plainly in green doublet brown mantle and scuffed boots. There was a weight to him, a sense of power and certainty. And you can really feel that. I think that was conveyed really wonderfully in this scene. Just how comfortable he is in his own skin.

[A]

There's a couple things, like the way he, like, looks up from, like, eating is.

[B]

The constant snacking is.

[A]

Is really good.

[B]

Wonderful.

[A]

But I think we also. Oh, our listener Matt wrote in. With this email, Matt wrote. I want to shout out my favorite line from this episode. Quote, we are the intruders here. Brother from Balor. When Dunk comes to plead his case, this just shows what a quality guy he is. I can't imagine any other Targaryen we have met across any other Game of Thrones property saying that encapsulates. Yeah. His character in one line. I love it. So, like, that's true. But also just sort of like there's a confidence, like, we're the intruders here. Like, I don't need to assert myself in every room. I don't need to be the most important person in this room. I am.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because I don't know if you've heard, but I unhorse Blackfire.

[B]

I was 17.

[A]

I was 17. Don't worry about it.

[B]

It's fine. Sword stuff.

[A]

Go, go.

[B]

We get a couple very clear, very good, very lingering looks at Baylor Breakspear's sword belt. And we can see that he does not have the Catspaw dagger. Now, maybe Daddy Darren, Darren the Good has it. Or maybe is it possible that Aegon the Fourth, when he gave Blackfyre to Daemon, sparking eventually the Blackfyre rebellion in. Did he give his Great bastard.

[A]

So Blackfire being in the incest sword, which he gave to Damon Blackfire because he's like, he's a bastard. But he's very hot. And he's like, you deserve a hot sword.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Did he give him the story dagger?

[B]

What do you think? Blackfyre. The sword is canonically in Essos at this point in time. We don't know where the dagger is. As we've chronicled at length while covering House of the Dragon, the daggers like. Like, function and role as this scroll of prophecy is was introduced to us via House of the Dragon. So then now it has.

[A]

You.

[B]

You brought this up in the trailer when we first saw Baylor. Like, that's on her mind now is. Where is this across history. Whose hand is it in when Confess.

[A]

I will be too upset if we don't get the cat's ball in this show. Yeah, it feels overburdened and. And in a way that the show is. And, you know, totally fair.

[B]

Maybe they're just like, I'm not trying.

[A]

To like, yuck or yum. If you. If you are on.

[B]

I like the idea that it maybe is.

[A]

Maybe it's already lost somewhere.

[B]

Yeah. Maybe Darren, the good does not have it. That would be really interesting.

[A]

It might get lost before the end of House of the Dragon. Like, we don't know.

[B]

It's true. I can't wait to see what happens with it in Haunti.

[A]

Genuinely, that is interesting to me, but I don't really need it messing with this show.

[B]

Yeah, you just need it to make its way back in time for.

[A]

Because the Targaryens are here and they're important. Yes, but they're not what this show is about.

[B]

That's right. But they are what this section of the Pod is about.

[A]

True. Maekar Kneecast, Prince of Summerhall.

[B]

This performance was wonderful.

[A]

Great stuff. Sam Sproul.

[B]

He's married to a Dane. You love a Dayne. We love a Dayne. Baelor's married to a Dondarrion. As you've mentioned. Notably, that means they're not married to their own siblings, which is nice. Nice change. Just, you know, we don't always get to praise the Targs, but shout out these guys for not marrying their relatives.

[A]

Hello, Bar. They cleared it.

[B]

Joe, what was. What's Makar like as a warrior?

[A]

Listen, the anvil. Makar was said to be a redoubtable warrior in his own right, though ever in the shadow of his eldest brother.

[B]

It's tough. It's tough to, like, actually be good at things, but also. But always be the second best. Like, if he sucked, that would be one thing, but he's like, I'm pretty great, too.

[A]

Here's Raymond Fossilay, right? Poor. Make our poor, said Dunk, startled the king's son. The king's fourth son, said Raymond. Not quite as bold as Prince Baylor, nor as clever as Prince Aries. Nor is gentle. What a great, great PR for Rhaegal Nor. As gentle as Prince Rhaegal who likes to prance around naked. But and now he must suffer seeing his own son overshadowed by his brothers. Right?

[B]

Brutal. Brutal. It did lead to a very amusing moment when he has to hear dunk praise Balor and we get just such an excellent bit of performance. Carlos, can we see this?

[A]

Ser Aryn often told me that you.

[B]

Were the soul of chivalry and that one day the Seven Kingdoms would be safe in your hands. I loved just his comedic image impact. Who what the is going on the rump when just when Doug is invited in in the first place? The whole like how can you possibly remember some hedge knight who chanced on Our statement Lannister 16 years ago? Why would you date to joust with the hedge knight? Okay well you're you're grateful now off like all of it is just you could really feel his plight even though he is plate the word he is the prince of the realm.

[A]

Our listener Dan wanted to chime in on the naming front because as you rightly pointed out when you were trying to explain to CR on talk of the Thrones who the Darrens were, who the Baylors are, et cetera, et cetera, I was going to make this point. Dan made it with far more examples than I put together. So I will defer to Dan's email. Dan wrote I would like to defend George R.R. martin's persistent repeating of Targaryen names. We must coddle Chris Ryan no longer. We all know how much George draws from world history as inspiration for his stories. Also to ground his world building and realism. His use of repeating names is no different. Sure it may make it confusing for a casual fan of this universe. It may be a bit of a nuisance for podcasting, but it must be applaud for how it echoes history in our own world. Let's do quick sample of off repeated regnal Regnal maybe regal but regnal is a new word. I would learn dynastic names in history France Louis 18 Kings including Louis XVI Uncrowned son of Louis the the 16th Charles 10 Philip 6 Henry 4 those are French kings England Henry 8 Kings Edward 8 George 6 William 4 I always loved in you know the interregnum in English history when it's like by history teacher would go am I getting this James Charles Charles James is how the prince works like this is the interregnum in there Eastern Roman Byzantine empire personal fave 11 Constantines 8 Johns 8 Michaels 6 Alexios 4 Andronikos 4 Romanos Andronikos would Be a great name to introduce to the to the realm. George, Spain, 13 Alfonso, 7 Ferdinands, 5 Philips and 4 Charles's.

[B]

So, you know, look, is it historically accurate? Yeah. Do I actually genuinely in truth lie? Yeah. Not only because it is true to the spirit of the thing, but also because it allows us to have these moments where we say, why was this character named for this other character? Are they different from their namesake? Do they represent something about that person? At the end of the day, when House of the Dragon introduced the Aegon confusion moment as a pivot point in the history of the realm, they open the door for us to make fun of of this. That's all.

[A]

It sounds like a Ryan Condell problem more than anything else. Honestly.

[B]

Yeah. And we're talking about.

[A]

And we support him. Okay.

[B]

Hot D, season three. Can't wait. I think it'll be good. So that's who the brothers are. Why is what we're seeing here from Baylor so winning not only for Dunk, but for us. You know, there's the warmth, the smiles. I love the number of moments where he smiles as Dunk is saying something. There's pride on display, the grace.

[A]

The way that Baylor is treating Dunk is like the way that Dunk treats horses. Right? Gentle. He's just gentle.

[B]

Welcoming.

[A]

He's nice.

[B]

Warm.

[A]

Yeah. And he's like, I'll. It's scary here. I know.

[B]

Let me provide some comfort.

[A]

Would you like a safe, safe haven? An apple, some oats?

[B]

Yeah, I guess. What a wonderful comp. This is a huge deal. Like, Dunk is making this appeal to the heir to the Iron Throne. And Baelor Brakespeare, who is the Hand of the King, the Prince of Dragonstone, a fabled warrior, has absolutely no reason to grant Dunk this audience, to treat him kindly, to remember who Sir Arlan is. But every single other person Dunk went to said, I don't know what the fuck you're talking about and I don't really have time for you. And Baelor Breakspear remembered Ser Arlan, remembered his name, remembered facing him, remembered the specifics of their jousts.

[A]

The rest of the Targaryens have set the bar in hell. All the other lords have set the bar in hell. And so Baelor, by merely merely looking up from his snacking for a second to be somewhat nice to someone, shamed himself.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Is like, wow. We're like, wow.

[B]

I mean, listen, a God among men left an impression. It left an impression. I like the intimidation that Dunk feels in the novella.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Kind of rightly, honestly, Dunk got to his feet wondering if he should keep his head down or if he was allowed to look a prince in the face. That's the head space he's in. Am I allowed to look this guy in the face? Right. And then to be met with a welcome, with an embrace. When we, we talked about this on Sunday. But like, it's so striking that Dunk is surrounded by people, plumbers. Like, you're going to have to find somebody who remembers who this guy is who can vouch for you. Did. Were there any witnesses to your knight? Lord Ashford's like, do you have anything written down?

[A]

Down?

[B]

And Baylor's just like, sir Rise. He's not asking questions. He, he, he runs this little like.

[A]

Layup of a quizzy quiz.

[B]

Yeah. With the Damon Lannister.

[A]

It's like you talk to someone on the street and you're like, what are the Stark house words? You know what I mean? Exactly. Can you get that one? Oh, you're an expert. You got it, you got it.

[B]

Even Bill could get that, you know, so he's.

[A]

Do you think Bill knows when TO is coming?

[B]

Yes, I do. I actually do.

[A]

How do you feel about the fact that as he's texting us, as he's watching Game of Thrones from his sauna, he keeps calling him Eddie Stark? How do you feel about that?

[B]

Good. I feel less good about him saying Theon love Joy instead of Greyjoy, but I feel good about Eddie Stark. Eddie Stark I support. Eddie Stark's pretty iconic Eddie Stark, I support. This is just a lovely scene. And you know when, when Dunk says at the end, like, I will fight bravely, you'll see. It's obviously a very sweet winning pledge from Dunk, but it's kind, kind of like, understand why he would want Balor to see that in him and believe that of him.

[A]

There's a number of. There's a few moments in this episode where he says something like, I will fight bravely. You'll see, I will do this. They'll see, we'll show them, blah, blah. And it's like he's talking himself into it, right? And it's very much the like, no chance, no choice, right? Like, yes, that's the, the Bran idea. Just sort of of like, I have to show them, right. I will risk all.

[B]

I must risk all.

[A]

You'll see, you'll see, you'll see. And like, what I, you know, George is telling this story for a reason. We can't get into all the details in the, in in the spoiler free section. But, like, this is a story worth telling for a reason.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So this idea of you'll see. Right. What I can do, or you'll see why this story matters is true. Dunk is speaking truth. This is a. The tourney at Ashford Meadow is a story that matters. Matters.

[B]

Yes, absolutely. And you'll see I. I love too, that. Yeah. Like you're saying Dunk is. Is kind of being his own hype man here and trying to convince himself that he can do this thing that he feels he must.

[A]

But, like, do you have something? Do you. I don't know how nervous you get about things. I've never seen you get, like, really nervous about something. But do you have, like a pep talk that you use to talk yourself into something?

[B]

No, I do get nervous. Chris. Chris once described me before a live show. So, yeah. Final season of Game of Thrones is human valium. Because I was so anxious, I made him calm just by being around.

[A]

Yeah, you used to get that, like, talk the first season. The first. The last season we did. Of Talk of Thrones on the insert inset stage. Like, you got really.

[B]

Yeah, I get. I do get nervous. It keeps me, like, I kind of like getting nervous. Like, it keeps me frosty. It keeps me on edge. I think the day that I show up, like, complacent is. It's not. Not a day I want, actually. But no, I don't have like a go to. Like, I don't have a creed or a mantra or anything I say to my. Maybe I should.

[A]

Do you wanna hear mine?

[B]

Yeah, absolutely.

[A]

When I'm about to do something that I find very scary and I don't want to do it. Yeah. I tell myself, no matter what, this will be over. That's what I tell myself. Get through it, no matter what. At some point. And hopefully there's like an. Hopefully there's an end point. I'm like, in an hour this will be over. Or like, you know. Yeah, you just have to do whatever this is and if it's scary for an hour and then you'll be done.

[B]

And then you do it again the next day or maybe later that same day. Busy weeks here lately.

[A]

Well, this isn't as scary anymore. We just pretend that there are, like all these lights and cameras and people here and we're just like talking in a room. It's the same as a zoom call.

[B]

Just so you know. Conversations in elegant rooms.

[A]

Yeah. You do it enough time that you don't have to pep talk yourself anymore.

[B]

Our version of Tyrion Lannister's life. Though we don't have as much wine here. You did bring us mead once sense, though. I mean, it was great.

[A]

Could have wine here.

[B]

We could. It's true. Guys, why don't we have wine?

[A]

Should we go to the puppet show? What do you think?

[B]

Yeah. Anything else that you wanted to say on the tales grow in the telling? Since obviously we've talked about it already. But this is where Baylor says it on the. Like the four lances. It was seven. And Dunk is embarrassed. And that's just that kind of sweet. Again. It's like. It's sweet. It's.

[A]

He's being nice. He's like, don't get mad at Arlen for exaggerating tales, girl. In the telling. But that's just like the thesis of this show.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Tales grow on the telly.

[B]

Just one more way to prove the. The kind of chivalry and. And. And wisdom that Arlen was always talking to Dunk about.

[A]

The tourney at Ashford Meadow matters. It. It sets some wheels in motion for history.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

But this version, this humble dunk and egg version that we are experiencing is not what the history books will say about the tourney. Dash for Meadow. Right.

[B]

What would they say about the Stokeworths who get a mention here? Shout out lol us. Shout out brawn. Miss that guy. All right, puppets and shields. Tell me about it. Because Baylor says his Dunk is leaving. He sees sir island shield and he's like, you have one note.

[A]

Actually, Baylor breakspear's like, I'm gonna introduce a continuity error. I'm gonna need you to get rid of that shield, which you will have in later scenes.

[B]

He's not Sir Arlen's actual blood, and so he cannot not.

[A]

Yeah. And he doesn't say it shittily. He's just sort of like, you gotta. Hey, hey, bud. You gotta make your own. Make your own kind of music.

[B]

Tails grow in the telling.

[A]

Make your own sigil. Make.

[B]

You need to continue to flesh out your own origin story here.

[A]

As we talk about, you know, tinsel and the puppeteers are doing Florian the Fool and we'll talk about the grave significance of that. But as we talk about egg and tansel and dunk sort of crowd. No, bad idea. In a brainstorm sort of crowdsourcing. Yeah. The various elements of the sigil. It's Baelor's idea that there should be a sigil in the first place. So Baelor has an impact here too, in terms of the creation of the sigil. Which I really like.

[B]

Beautiful. It's a tapestry forged by all those hands.

[A]

Sub creators, baby.

[B]

Professor's always welcome.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Egg loves this puppet show. Dunk loves.

[A]

He's having a puppeteer. He's, like, so cute.

[B]

It's precious. You really feel that? He's a kid.

[A]

I rewound. Okay. So, like, he. His little face watching was so cute. But Peter Claffy's like, I've mastered the heart eye emoji.

[B]

It's incredible.

[A]

It's very endearing. He's, like, very. Just, like, goofy, boyish smile as he's just, like, staring at Tansel. He just adores her. And he's happy. And he's taking boyish glee in the puppet show as well. Like, it's very sweet, but he's taking glee.

[B]

That's for sure.

[A]

You're trying to make it. I really do think when he says you're. You're not too tall for kissing.

[B]

Angle of.

[A]

For smooching.

[B]

Sex.

[A]

For smooching.

[B]

Blowjobs.

[A]

For kissing. No.

[B]

I mean, sure, kissing will be involved. And he.

[A]

In the book, he's thinking about kissing.

[B]

In that very moment. She had to sit at the table, on the table, and he was embarrassed that she had to sit there to kiss him.

[A]

Sweet.

[B]

It's very sweet.

[A]

Let me. It's not too tall for. It's too tall for kissing. For me.

[B]

Everything aligns properly for Dunk here. Just let's hear some textual evidence. The puppeteer who worked the dragon was good to watch, too. A tall drink of water.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

With the olive skin and black hair of Dorne. She was slim as a lance with no breasts to speak up. But Dunk liked her face and the way her fingers made the dragon snap and slither at the end of its string.

[A]

Rejected. She likes her artistry.

[B]

Hand job.

[A]

She thinks she's an artiste. He loves her craft.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

He craftswoman.

[B]

Yes. A woman, elegant. Many talents. And why not all of the above? You could be a great puppeteer and a wonderful painter and also give a hell of a blow to Job.

[A]

How dare you?

[B]

All right.

[A]

Chivalric love. This is pure.

[B]

Dunk is super horny and really wants to get laid.

[A]

He's.

[B]

He's, like, routinely, like, I shouldn't be thinking about kissing. I should be thinking about Jo kissing, not. What do you think? He wants kissing to lead to more kissing. He's very sweet.

[A]

I guess. I.

[B]

God, you're the best. All right. Tell me about Florian the Fool. Tell me about Florian the Fool. Yeah. Speaking of beautiful love stories. Genuinely.

[A]

I just have to say the great Harry Lloyd. Like, I love him. Yeah. His Dornish accent, brutal. Not my fav. Okay. Because I was like, you are no knight. You are. I'm not going to do his accent.

[B]

It's wild. Yeah.

[A]

You are no knight. You are Florian the Fool. I am, my lady. As great a fool as ever lived and as great a knight as well. A fool and a knight. I've never heard such a thing. Sweet lady. All men are fools and all men are knights. Where women are concerned. I'm obsessed with the way that they did. Like, the pause for that. And the puppets. The puppeteers had him, like, waggle his little head as he said it. I thought that was great stuff.

[B]

Dunk was also thinking about the waggling of little heads.

[A]

That's. I. I played with your. I played along with your many Arlen Dick jokes. Preserve the innocence of Duncan till book two, is what I will have to say. Okay. He thought back in all the songs he had heard. Songs of blind Simeon Star Eyes and noble Serwin. That's not Sir Win, but Sir Win of the Mirror Shield and Prince Aon the Dragon Knight and Sir Ryan Redw and Florian the Fool. They had all won victory against foes far more terrible than any he would face. But they were great heroes, brave men of noble birth. Except for Florian and what am I? So here's Florian the Fool. Yeah. All men are fools. All men are knights. Who, in that sort of, like, upward mobility sense that we're talking about, can you be a fool and of humble birth and also be a knight? And this is sort of like a. As much as. As heavy as the text was in the last episode of Making the Comp between Sermon of the Mirror Shield and Dunk, the. This is. Florin is the real up here.

[B]

Dunk is like, I. Okay, that guy.

[A]

That could be me.

[B]

Yeah. More relatable than some of the other mythic figures. For Dunk, certainly.

[A]

And this is. You know, this is something that has come up again and again. A song of ice and fire. We've talked in. In our trailer coverage and stuff like that. Sansa thinking about Florian and Jonquil. Sansa's song for Sandor. Sir Dontos pledging to be Sansa's. Florian and Robin John pretending to be Florian. This is. This is how Sandra Clain received this. Florian and Jonquill, a fool and his. Spare me. But one day I'll have a song from you, whether you will it or no.

[B]

Who Guy. I think he is Lionel Barathan Sandor.

[A]

I have a lot of notes. Okay, so like, they go see 10 out of the show. And this is, this is part of the whole continuity issue, right? Yeah. Where as we mentioned on Talk of Thrones later, when Dunk is talking to Steely Pate, when he, he's selling his horse, all that sort of stuff like that. When he's looking at the empty tourney field, he has the shield on. They digitally erased the sigil, but he has the shield on. And that's because that's the order of the scenes in the books. And here's another clue that this is why this is. It was shot out of order or like they, they sort of cut it out of order. He gives money to T. Here's another. Here's one cop before you. And another, he's being very free with the pennies.

[B]

Dunk has no game.

[A]

Well, he's no game, but he has no money until he sells the horse.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And once he has the horse, then he has coppers to throw to the puppet girl, you know, so. Yeah, just saying.

[B]

Egg's quite interested in the fire, how the fire tricks work.

[A]

He's scientifically minded. Pollen.

[B]

Did you know that pollen could be used for pyrotechnics?

[A]

Do you think Husbandsbury knows that pollen can be used for pyrotechnics?

[B]

I mean, I assume so. If you're going to be the bee house, you should probably know these things. This sounds like now my least desirable job in Westeros.

[A]

Pollen collector.

[B]

My allergies. Your allergies simply could not, absolutely couldn't handle it. It's a no for me. And that's sad because I think the puppet show seems really fun. But if we're just flinging pollen about, it's not going to work for me. It's not going to work. Egg is like so, I mean, Dunk is very embarrassed as he's like, not.

[A]

Have the words he told us.

[B]

I, I, oh, boy, you must think I'm such a fool. Like, I'm here to ask you for this thing, but I don't know what it is. It's very charming. Egg is embarrassed. He's kind of like huffing on the side, trying to help. Very. It's very sweet and very cute. As we've noted, Dunka Dunka had never been with a girl and they made him nervous. Canonical virgin. And you can find that in this scene. Perfect for kissing and some other stuff, some hand and mouth stuff. Tenzel invokes this Florian line that we just saw and heard in the puppet show. Like, well, yeah, you must Think me such a fool. All men are fools and all men are knights. We loved in episode one that Lionel idea and that Lionel line of, inside every man there are men, many men. And so this is another through line, right? Tales go with the telling. What makes a knight a knight? Inside every men there are many men Every man is a knight and a fool like the multitudes that you contain the contradictions that you can. That you contain.

[A]

Will you allow me a moment, please, to talk about Septim Maribold?

[B]

Oh, sure. That. Absolutely.

[A]

What a thrill from a Feast for Christ. Yeah. So the Broken man speech, which is like one of the most famous Game of Thrones speeches which they gave to Ian McShane of Tits and Dragons in Game of Thrones. But Septon Maribold is this character in Feast for Crows who talks about the broken man. He talks about what it means to, like, thinking about the outlaws that are on the roads, right? So, like, we're thinking about outlaws a lot inside of the context of this story because the Hedge knights are accused of being outlaws and stuff like that. So talking about the outlaws and he's talking about, like, hey, how did you think they got this way? They were once men dreaming of. Of valor and war, right? Yeah. So he says, quote, there are many sorts of outlaws, just as there are many sorts of birds. Poop. Robin.

[B]

Robin. Yeah.

[A]

Sandpiper and a sea eagle Both have wings but they are not the same. The singers love to sing of good men forced to go outside the law to fight some wicked lord. But most outlaw laws are more like this ravening hound than they are the Lightning Lord. Brothers march with brothers Sons with fathers Friends with friends They've heard the songs and stories so they go off with eager hearts Dreaming of the wonders they will see of the wealth and glory they will win. War seems a fine adventure the greatest most of them will ever know. Then a little later, he's asked, like, how young he was when he went to war, right? And he says, too young for such, in truth. But my brothers were all going and I would not be left behind. William said I could be his squire Though Will was no knight, only a potboy armed with a kitchen knife he'd stolen from the inn. He died upon the stepstones and never struck a blow. It was fever did for him and for my brother Robin Owen died from a mace that split his head apart. And his friend John Pox was hanged for rape. The war of the Nine Petty Kings said, Heil hunt, so they called Though I never saw a king nor earned a penny it was a war, though, that it was so good. So like that concept that George has been chasing of. I like this idea of like, inside every man there are many men. Right. So like inside, inside every outlaw in, in this context of what he's talking about, there are many stories of how they got that way. There are many different versions of that. And it reminds me a lot of the part in Fellowship that we were talking about when Gandalf talks about pity. Yeah, pity staying Bilbo's hand. And how did Gollum get that way? And who was Gollum? And so Septim Maribald is. Is sort of preaching this idea of like, think of the stories that got these. That drove these men to this desperation. Yeah, right. We find Dunk in a different kind of desperation, but in a desperate moment. What is the story that got him here? Here.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And. And who, who are these knights? You can call any of these men with a sir in front of their name a knight.

[B]

Sure. Yeah. But what, what makes a knight a knight?

[A]

What makes a knight a knight? What makes a Targaryen a Targaryen? And. And when we think about Septon Maribold into Feast for Crows.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Certainly thinking about Brienne and we're certainly thinking about the Hound. Absolutely.

[B]

I love it. What. What would Gollum have put on his. Should shield?

[A]

A ring. Just the ring, my precious.

[B]

Not a Wrigley fish. Ron Wrigley.

[A]

Maybe it's like the Tully trout, like sort of splashing up with a ring around it. Yes.

[B]

I like that. Egg thought that the, that Lord Tully ripping the head off the. The fish was disgusting. But Gollum was like, that's my signature.

[A]

Moved it.

[B]

That is my signature move.

[A]

I love sashimi. I'm a big fan.

[B]

Same la. Great city for some sushi.

[A]

I've been having a lot of sashimi in my time here, actually.

[B]

I mean, I should hope so. Wonderful stuff.

[A]

Great stuff.

[B]

We've already talked about this collaboration of forging the shield. Yeah, forging the, the new sigil. This, this, this brainstorm. Beautiful. And then Egg gets the puppet line instead of Dunk. Not too tall for puppets. I actually don't like that Egg got that instead of Dunk. I think it's so perfect that it's Dunk in the. In the novella.

[A]

I'm kind of of two minds about it. Tell me yourself that Dunk doesn't have the right words and Egg has the.

[B]

Word that he proves not having the words as perfectly as puppets. He finished lamely. It's like the best.

[A]

Do we want to talk about Brienne and the. And the sigil. I don't think we've read this passage in the non spoiler section because we didn't have the sig yet.

[B]

Right. We did that at the. At the end last time. Yeah. Let's hit it again. Absolutely.

[A]

So in A Song of Ice and Fire, Bran finds a shield in her father. Her father's armory. We don't know any more about it, but we get a description of it. Running her fingers over the green leaves of the tree and along the path of the falling star. So Bran of Tarth finds Sir Duncan's shield in her father's armory. How did it get there? Tune in to find out.

[B]

Indeed. The luck is ours. And dunks and brands and eggs and brands and pods. We're all in the same story. It's the best.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Egg has another pep talk for Dunk, but he also is kind of like, could you give me a pep talk? Aren't you supposed to be helping Ill handled me. Was it ill handled? Dunk is very embarrassed. Was it ill handled with the puppet girl? This is where Egg tats that they are both gigantic. Is that promising? It's commonality and love that Dunk is looking to his 10 year old squire for wisdom. Because sometimes Dunk is like, I'm the one in charge, remember? If you steal from me, I'm gonna hunt you down with dogs. You don't have dogs. Well, I'll get. I'll get them. Right. Yeah. Routinely throughout the novella, Egg is like, that's not someone you want to challenge. That's not someone you want to face. He's a serious and oh, that, that sigil is that house and dunks like I know man like Sir Arlen and I served there. He taught me my heraldry. But then there are plenty of moments where Dunk is like, actually, you know more about this than I do. Actually, I just learned something for you. And one of the lines that I love so much is Dunk thinking of Egg. He liked the boldness. He needed to be bolder himself. My squire is braver than I am and more clever.

[A]

But here we have Egg talking about how puny he is, right?

[B]

Will I ever be able to be a knight? I'm so small.

[A]

Puny. Rather puny for my age. Quote, growing was the one thing that Dunk did really well. The old man used to say.

[B]

And he would know, okay. And Arlen would know, okay. I think this is very sweet. You know, Egg has all of these bits of. Of knowledge and he's bold and he's confident.

[A]

It's a bug in my side.

[B]

He's aware. Bug in my side are gonna flick it out. But Dunk's size and his strength and his might, it's something that Egg genuinely admires and prizes. And I just loved this little moment. And I. I was very charmed by the comedy of Dunk saying, you know, well, like, people always tell me I'm stupid and egg waiting. And you described it as too much sauce, too much dip on the chip. Too much sauce. For me, in that moment, I was very taken by it.

[A]

Like I said, too much sauce on the hot dog for some reason, rather than. Than the actual phrase, which is dip on the chip.

[B]

See, the hot dog sounds delicious. Right now, actually, that's. It is lunchtime. Also, we've been talking a lot about dicks. That's the other thing, by the way, about Duncan Tinsel. He's like, can I. Would you like a sausage? He's literally like, would you like. Can I offer you a sausage?

[A]

Yeah. Yes.

[B]

Oh, man. Dunk's like, my problems are.

[A]

And Lionel's like, would you like a girl? Right.

[B]

Tug of war. So I feel like my takeaway from this because Lionel says c three times. Great stuff. Pisses off in the middle of tug of war to go get a drink. I'm thirsty.

[A]

Really good.

[B]

Dunk clearly wins this on his own.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It's another way of showing us his size and his strength.

[A]

They don't win until Lionel comes back on the rope.

[B]

He barely puts his hand on it.

[A]

He holds it down. Absolutely. And.

[B]

And we should say Squid Game season one. Dunk would have made it out.

[A]

I think that's definitely what I would have. I was dying to make a squid game comp. It's seven versus seven, is it not?

[B]

I was counting because I assumed seven versus seven, and then I thought there were eight.

[A]

I think it's seven versus seven. Does egg count?

[B]

He says he's hanging, like, hanging on for dear life.

[A]

Dexter said that they just did whatever they wanted on that tug of war thing and that him, like, going up on the rope was just something that he did. So, you know, it was like. It was just them fucking around, which is just really, really fun.

[B]

Lionel is like, he's there for a good time. Have you ever heard anybody say Lionel.

[A]

Only feels alive when he's at war? So tough. So he's like, let's make a war out of this drinking moment. Let's do a tug of war.

[B]

Listen, everybody has a pregame ritual, a pre tourney ritual, and this is His. This is his. This is how he.

[A]

He.

[B]

This is his pregame play mix. He's like, he's basically ready to do an advertisement for bows.

[A]

Fuck up their hands so that they can't hold a lance against me in the tourney.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. Draw those palms, you clam handed cunt. We're not in your sister's chambers now. We like to take people behind the curtain. First thing I texted you about was Sir Arlen's dick. And the first thing you texted me about this episode was that line, we can only be who we are. Have you ever heard anybody say pull you constrapped dead lions? It's incredible.

[A]

I think we're not in your sister's chambers anymore is like one of the funniest fucking things. And I just think Lyla Baratheon is a real treat.

[B]

His. The full antler helm armor in the opening joust was so sick.

[A]

Very good.

[B]

Dunk needs armor.

[A]

Steely Pete, baby.

[B]

I love Steely Pete. You made fun of me once in the trailer because I was like Steely Pate. Like he's the most important character in the history of the canon. I thought this performance was great. He has a couple lines and moments that I just love.

[A]

I'm pro. Steely Paid.

[B]

It's too late.

[A]

But you were like, where are the paint heads at?

[B]

Are they I. Do you. Do you even paint, bro? Do you? Oh, man. So Dunk seeks him out because our Arlen's armor, as we talked about last week, too small for Dunk. Right? How's he going to protect himself in the joust? You're a big one. But I've armored bigger. I love that line. We talk about Dunk. Supposed to be 611. Not quite, but he's gigantic. Plus. But like he's not the literally the biggest man who's ever lived like everyone else. He's part of a great span of history.

[A]

Steely Paid, supposed to be very small in stature. So I love how they just had this guy sit down and not get up. They're just like, we'll just have you down.

[B]

I like to be comfortable when I work and so does Steely Paid. You know, he is one degree removed from my signature move, which is pajamas, fleece, blanket, chase. That's how I do the bulk of my work.

[A]

It's true. You forgot about the TV tray. The TV tray is there with your snacks. You.

[B]

It's. And as you know, it's not just snacks. I eat dinner off that tv Dray. Every night. Adam and I sit side by side Eating. Eating dinner off our dj, Watching television.

[A]

The American dream. It's the American dream, baby.

[B]

We found what works for us. Steely Pate. He's not really, like, here to win any fit watch awards, right? He is here to make sure that a lance doesn't explode your eyeballs. Just good steel, strong and plain. I make helms that look like helms, not winged pigs and fancy foreign fruit. But mine will serve you better if you take a lance in the face. Now, of course, as Thrones viewers instantly, this calls to mind so much of the flashy, ostentatious, showy, highly decor, decorative armor that we've seen over the years. But for Dunk, this is a great moment because it's like, armor is not a status symbol for him. I mean, in some ways it is, right? It's. Can you afford it? Can you enter the. The list with it on your. On your chest, on your back? It's practical. I need this on me to survive. But there's a very meta aspect to this, too, right? Like, Dunk is much like the armor that Steely Pate is describing, that Dunk is there to procure. Plain, strong. He's not flashy.

[A]

Do you ever read Sarah Plain and Tall in school?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Dunk. Plain and tall.

[B]

Don't plain and tall like. But can he serve as a. As a better kind of knight? Another what makes a night a night a night idea. What makes armor functional armor like is Dunk. A truer distillation of the essence of the thing, much like what Steely Pate is going to make for him.

[A]

I love that. And, you know, he has his name, he has his sigil that a Dornish puppeteer will paint for him. That was crowdsourced from his little bald squire and inspired by the hand of the king. And here is his armor.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

What makes a knight a knight. These are some of the things.

[B]

Unfortunately, this is going to cost 800 stack.

[A]

Sword and shield don't make a knight. But, like, it's part of it.

[B]

Part of it. It is part of it. Dunk cannot afford this.

[A]

Gotta sell a horse.

[B]

But Steely Pete lowers the price. This is what we got the beautiful email about last week, and you were talking about last week. He kind of looks at him and.

[A]

He'S like, there's something to you.

[B]

We're gonna figure this out. I want to help you figure this out. Which is a beautiful response. And Dunk, this is a moment I love. This is in the novella. This is in the show. Dunk's like, I'M gonna. Yeah, don't worry. You're gonna get it all back. I mean, to be a champion.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

And steely patience.

[A]

Just do watch. No choice. No chance.

[B]

Do you now? And the others all came just. Just to cheer you on. I really love the way that that one line concretizes and presents the sheer impossibility of what Dunk is trying to do. Right. And a lot of characters have said things that like this is another version.

[A]

Of Lionel being like, yeah, you know, Chance. No chance.

[B]

And yet Dunk decides to plow on.

[A]

Okay. Can I.

[B]

Sweet Foot.

[A]

Dunk says goodbye to Sweet Foot. This is a very beautiful moment.

[B]

Sad.

[A]

This is Sir Arlen's horse. We see him riding it in the flashback, right. So we got this really beautiful email, I thought from Maddie, which was actually Maddie, who is a. A real horse girl, self described.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Wrote an extremely, extremely long email. This is merely part of it. But Maddie wrote, I love that Dunk gets his Aragorn horse girl moment with Valar. It was Aryan seed, right? But Aryan ste. That kick knee to the face is brutal. Though he does say easy girl when you can see in multiple shots that the horse is definitely not a mayor. Maybe Dunk is too tall to see it down there. The moment before Dunk sells Sweet Foot was so precious and definitely brought me to tears. Though Sweetfoot was mostly Sir Arlen's mount, Dunk was the one caring for for her, brushing her and feeding her, talking to her all the while. In a lot of cases, the bond between horse and groom is even stronger than the bond between horse and rider. It's very important to me that the person Dunk sold her to gives her that apple Dunk paid for. I think another level to Dunk's pain in this moment is that giving up Sweetfoot is likely giving up another piece of Sir Arlen. We got several flashback moments in this episode of Sir Arlen riding Sweetfoot and singing and having a great time. It's clear to see that Sweetfoot and the other horses are part of the family that Arlen and D. Dunk have formed. I'm the only horse person in my family, but I have friends who have had to decide what to do with the relative's horse after the relative has passed. You want to keep them and take good care of them, and the thought of anyone else owning them or writing them is heartbreaking. But in a lot of cases, it's not economical. Horses are just so expensive. So this idea of like all this idea that she's. That. That she's talking here that Maddie makes about being the groom, Sweet Foot's groom. And thinking about how we were talking about the sword that. Like the care. Yeah. That Dunk took with Sir Arlen's sword. Just carefully honing it, sharpening it by the fire every night and just carefully caring for Sweet Foot. And we got, you know, in episode one, the sort of like, I could sell you all and eat King, but. Right. This not was A, what will that get me in the long run? And B, this is not what sir island taught me.

[B]

Right.

[A]

To care for these horses like they're.

[B]

Yeah. And when he does end up selling Sweet Foot, it's not to eat like King. It's not for luxury and gluttony. It's because he genuinely feels like I must risk all. I have no other choice. I love that line in the novella. Dunk felt as though he was betraying an old friend, which is obviously about Sir Arlen, but, like, also about Sweet Foot because he does have such a genuine bond with these animals. And we talked about this last week how, like seeing Dunk in conversation. We talked about it earlier today with the horses. Like, it is such a cheat code to, like, warm us to the character and show us what kind of heart he has. But that was. As we talk about the bookends of these episodes. And what is he seeing anew about who Arlen was and what is he holding onto and continuing to carry forward? Like, this is one of the things that Arlen taught him that was good and right and that Dunk will continue to incorporate into his own life. So the old man always said that a knight should never love a horse, since more than a few were, like, to die under him. But he never heeded his own counsel either. Dunk had often seen him spend his last copper on an apple for Old Chestnut or some oats for Sweet Foot and Thunder. So when we see Dunk do that here, give one of the coppers that he just earned back and say, you know, that's for her. Make sure she has some oats tonight.

[A]

And an apple, people.

[B]

It's not only because he's a good person who believes, who cares about this animal and is pained, genuinely pained to have to say goodbye and pledges to her, like, if I. If I win, I'll come get you again. I'll buy you back. It's because that's a lesson Arlen taught him that he still holds dear. So it's a. It's a lovely little moment for a lot of different reasons. Sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet Foot. Time for the opening joust. Egg drops the. The crabber effects, the dark Donnell biodits, and we already talked about that. Dunk is opening up here, though, to Egg. He's like, sir arlon lived for 60 years and he was never a champion. We're not quite at the end scene where he's going to really stare all the facts in the face, but he's, like, starting to own a little bit more volume. Complete picture here, right? He was never a champion. Maybe if I can be a champion. Dunk says the Targaryens will take me into their household. And Egg is like, you think the Dragon House employs hedge knights? They don't have that checked off on their LinkedIn profile.

[A]

Right.

[B]

A hedge knight must hold tight to his pride. Without it, he was no more than a sell sword. I must earn my place in that company. If I fight well, some lord may take me into his household. I will ride in noble company then and eat fresh meat every night in a castle hall and raise my own pavilion attorneys. But fresh first I must do well. So as we build toward the. They don't die by the side of the road in a muddy grave. Dunk is already seeking to improve his circumstance.

[A]

And I think it's very pointed, right, that he says, eat fresh meat in.

[B]

Not the hard salt beef.

[A]

Not the hard salt beef.

[B]

The horn sounds. It's time for the joust. We see Balor maker, Aryan Lord Ashford. They're up in the box. Duncan, Egg, take their place among the common folk.

[A]

Right?

[B]

And here are the sides in the. In the book, the champions, Andro A N D R O W and Robert Ashford, two of Lord Ashford's sons, Prince Valar, Leo Longthorne Tyrell and Humphrey Harding.

[A]

Humphrey Harding.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Is an absolute badass. Right, so this makes a lot of sense, right? Leo Tyrell, Lord Paramount of the region. Yeah. Two of Lord Ashford's sons. He's the host. Prince Valar.

[B]

Yeah. And then Humphreys.

[A]

What the hell is Humphrey Harding doing here? He's the biggest badass.

[B]

Best of Sir Donnell.

[A]

He's hardcore.

[B]

And a Royce. I really got excited when we picked up the. There's like all this cool choreography in the Japanese house. Picked up the. The picking up when you can see, that's. That's a rewarding shield. The diamonds. The white and the. The red diamonds. That was very fun. Challengers. This is in the text. I was like. I'll be honest. I'm like, I need glasses. As you know, this is a night scene. Even though it was, as you noted, On Talk of the Thrones better lit than some other Thrones night scenes. I was like, are these characters exactly the same as in the book? It was. I had to kind of really freeze framing involved. The challengers unmistakable with the antler helm, the Laughing Storm, Lionel Baratheon in the text, he challenges Ashley the younger. Tybolt Lannister challenges Ashy the elder, the Gray Lion. B said he's going to be entering list. Sirius, he challenges Leo Longthorne. Lord Tully biting off the fish, challenges Humphrey Harding. And then Abalar Hightower challenges, as we.

[A]

Noted earlier, Prince Valar.

[B]

The high towers can only be the high towers. Great stuff. So Dunk sees Valley and he's like.

[A]

Oh, I bet he's gonna be the best bet.

[B]

He's the. Yeah, he's like, I'll take that bet.

[A]

So here's. Here's what's a little clearer in the books, right? This idea of, like. I think it's less clear. This idea of, like, picking who you're gonna challenge, who the original champions are. That whole process, which George spends many pages describing in the book. But what's clear in the book is that everyone is pulling their punches when it comes to Valar. And that's. They made that clear in this line, right? That when eggs, like, not so hot. But he's right. He's Prince Valar, right?

[B]

And Duncan's like, would I even be able to, like, challenge the prince? Would they let me?

[A]

Right? And they start with like, the. The biggest deals get to go first. So Dunk challenging. And this is what, when he and Raymond were talking last week about, like, whose shield are you going to pick? Like, who are you going to challenge? He's like, it doesn't matter. And he's like, that's what you're supposed to say.

[B]

It doesn't really matter.

[A]

But, like, who is. Who is Dunk at a challenge among these people? Because, like, the. The way you stay in the tourney is you win.

[B]

So challenger can become a champion.

[A]

They. So what we watch here, five against five. They ride against each other. All ten lances smash. That's what happens in the book and that's what happens here. And everyone freaks the out because this is going to be.

[B]

Going to be sick.

[A]

Sick. All ten lances smash. Great. But whoever wins in this is going to, like, advance, advance, advance, you know, and so it's not going to get easier. It's only going to get harder as we go.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So what is Dunk going to do outside of all of this is. Is the realization that he is having as he's watching this. Right. And I think that, like, there's this really cool moment that I think is worth calling out, which is Leo Longthorne himself. Himself, basically, when someone gets unhorsed, he, like, pulls up. Yeah. And then he, like, he falls off and eventually gets. I think he's the one who, like, pulls himself up on someone else's horse, essentially. But, like. But like, you're not trying to kill anyone.

[B]

Right.

[A]

This is pad, like, play acting war. It's pageantry.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So though we've seen things go poorly in tourneys before, Right. These five champions and their five challengers are all playing by the rules, which is like, we're here attorney lances. You know, we're here to smash up each other's shields and lances, but we're not here to, like, actually fuck each other up. Like, that's not the point of what we're doing here. So that's important that they showed us this here.

[B]

Yeah, absolutely. I thought this was really fun.

[A]

Really fun.

[B]

Very cool. The decision to make it a night joust in the show was. Was, I thought, some nice, like, Friday Night Lights energy. Sure. You know.

[A]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[B]

If someone had started singing Devil Town, I wouldn't have been surprised.

[A]

Right. Explosions in the sky starts playing.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Buddy Garrity would love a joust.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

He. He would want a Jumbotron to put it on, but he would love a joust.

[B]

Which house is Buddy trying to be a booster for, though? I mean, frankly, probably the Targs.

[A]

I would say the Lannisters.

[B]

You're right. Absolutely.

[A]

Money.

[B]

You're right. All the gold. We talked about the anxiety that both Egg and Dunk are experiencing. Egg when he sees the squires for all of the challengers and champions alike running out lances in hand to arm their. Their riders anew. He looks down at his tiny little hands. He's like, am I gonna be able to do that? I'm gonna have to do that. And it's funny because there's this line in the novella about how, like, you know, it's one of a dozen forms Attorney can take. And Chris was asking us on Talk to the Thrones in episode one. You know, Attorney's in the role in the story, and we talked about. They've been present in every show, obviously, crucial moments in history. They can. They vary setting to setting. And so this particular mode, the five champions, the five challenges, there is like a heightening of the theater right away that really kind of like, makes it all feel More keen for viewers, but for Egg and Dunk as well.

[A]

I loved the fish bite from the Tully because, you know, a lot of people have been asking, what relation does this story have to something like A Knight's Tale, the Heath Ledger film. And. And, you know, sure, you can see comps. That film came out after this book was written. So, you know, and then they all are related to either, like, Chaucer or Chaucer or Ivanhoe or whatever you prefer. But speaking of Chaucer, speaking of Paul Bettany, the way that Paul Bettany as Chaucer, my introduction to Paul Bettany, one of my favorite things that he's ever done, like, just comes out and amps up the crowd as he is announcing Heath Ledger's character. Like, that pageantry, that theater. We're not. We're not like stomping and clapping. We will rock you as they do in. But the energy's there. You know, the energy's there.

[B]

So, yeah, people are having a great time. Egg Dunk is. He's flashing to Arlen. He's going through it, as we already talked about, this kind of, like, clarity of this fork in the road moment and the circumstance that he has found himself in and the distance from the humble roots. Egg gets back to camp and he's like, die, you blackfyre pretenders. He's plagiarism. He is still enraptured by the. Just the euphoria of that experience, even though he obviously was.

[A]

But then he, like, understands that that's not the vibe at the camp.

[B]

He sees that Dunk is going through it. He.

[A]

He.

[B]

He notes the pensive mood. He asks if he's okay. And this is when Dunk says the line we've referenced a few times. Do great knights live in the hedges and die by the side of a muddy road? I think not. This is yet another moment line that is pulled basically right from the book, right? Ser Arlan had taught him as best he could, but the old man had never been the greatest of knights. Even when young great knights did not live their lives in the hedges, nor die by the side of a muddy road. That will not happen to me, Dunk vowed. I will show them that I can be more than a hedge knight.

[A]

I will show them. I will show them.

[B]

I will show them this idea. I will be more than a hedge knight. While holding on to the fact that the hedge knight could be the truest and purest kind of knight, the Dunk is evolving in embracing kind of the totality of that. I really, really, really loved this scene. I loved the way that Peter Clafius Dunk like, bit the hard salt beef, even just at the ending note is like. It's hedge knight's food.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, as he's making this pledge.

[A]

This collaboration he shared with Arlen.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. Like, it's another tie to the past. Does he have the coin or the opportunity to feast in some grand fashion? No, but it's like, this can fuel me.

[A]

But, I mean, he ate like, he ate high on the hog with Lionel Barreth. And he could have, like, another pastry.

[B]

You know, asked for another pastry.

[A]

He could have snuck his way into another tent.

[B]

But this is gonna get me ready.

[A]

I'm eating the hedge knight meal.

[B]

Sir Arlen wasn't gifted with sword or lance. And he drank and he hoard and he was a hard man to know. He made no friends either. He lived nigh on 60 years and never was a champion. What chance do I have, truly? So what chance do I have, truly? As a repeating refrain, he was a hard man to know. Really hit me. I thought that line and that delivery was great. Because first of all, it's sad, this idea, as we've talked about, that this is the person Dunk spent the bulk of his life with and the horses, and he was a hard man to know. How much of that is for other people, but how much of it was for Dunk?

[A]

But also, like, Egg is such an easy boy to know. You know what I mean? Like, he's so open and so, like, talkative and all these other things. So, like, for Dunk to have this new experience.

[B]

Yeah, I love that. This, like, more honest accounting that he has of confronting that Arlen wasn't always maybe honest or. Or kind or the. The hero that he wanted to be or that Dunk wanted him to be. What makes a knight a knight, but also that he's like, pairing it with the pledge. But he was good to me. I wasn't his family, but he kept.

[A]

Me like we were.

[B]

He raised me to be an honorable man. And all these noble lords can't even remember his name. His name was Sir Arlen of Penny Tree. And I am his legacy. On the morrow, we will show them what his hand has wrought. There is not a story where, like, the idea of legacy is more central than Game of Thrones. Tywin Lannister.

[A]

I don't know. Are you watching this season of Industry?

[B]

I'm one episode behind, but, yes, I. I am watching and enjoying. So I just. I just loved this final note. I loved this idea that Dunk is like finding the actual aspects to hold forth and prize and cherish and also.

[A]

Updating what to keep and what to.

[B]

His view of the thing. What to leave Book spoilers.

[A]

Let's do it.

[B]

If you don't want to hear us talk about things that are happening in the future in the book. This is where you leave. We will see you for episode three. Okay. Have you left? Are you gone? Goodbye. All right. Egg. Do you think that people could watch this episode of television and not know that Egg is the Targaryen Some people.

[A]

Watch like some people watch shows so casually. Yes.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

He does make a little gasp when he sees the Targaryens.

[B]

He's like I need to leave right now.

[A]

I think if people don't know and they're close watchers, they probably figured it out. Hopefully. But I think there are plenty of people who will be surprised.

[B]

One of one of Maekar's missing sons.

[A]

There are plenty people who watch things casually.

[B]

It's true. I thought that they amplified the clues in this episode.

[A]

Don't go on for sure.

[B]

I thought even more than the just direct as Aga secret Targ you can see safe their permission and the royal lap dogs.

[A]

All that.

[B]

It was just real princely vibes.

[A]

That's what I was trying to like.

[B]

Real princely privilege vibes.

[A]

Yeah. Exactly.

[B]

I think on the just. It's painful to go through the whole Pod on the make our front and not be able to say that his third son is Mr. Aon. I can't wait to be able to do that very soon. In this story. It's very hard to not be able to do that.

[A]

Can I shout out a line I really loved? Please. When Dunk says to Egg, you're a likely lady because Aegon will become Aegon the Unlikely.

[B]

Yeah. Very fun fire stuff. It's worrying.

[A]

Yeah. So if people here are in the spoiler section and they don't know. So Egg is Aegon Targaryen who will become Aegon the Unlikely. The king. And he also in pursuit of maybe rebirthing the dragons is responsible for the great fire at Summerhall. Yeah. How responsible? Perhaps we will find out if we get there on the show. But his interest in how did you make that fire is worrying. Is tough.

[B]

On the Baylor front. I make it a practice to learn all I can to my foes. A nice little Just like I'm tactically minded. I am strategic as a setup for the kingsguard. They're on the other side of the trial seven. They can't touch me. I'M a prince of the realm. Kind of just liked a little bit of setup for how his mind works on the strategy front, obviously, most importantly, just setting him up as an honorable guy who will make the decision to stand with me. Dunk Aryan, quickly established as a. A douche. Yeah. So that's effective, I think. Also in the scenes for next week, they just show him saying the dragon must never lose. And as we talked about last week in the scenes for the season, they're. They just totally gave away everything that well.

[A]

Yeah, I think Aryan. How Aryan conducts himself in the joust if they're doing that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, all that sort of stuff. Yeah, I think that's really interesting, Maekar.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I do not need to be reminded of my son's son's failings. He can change. He will change. Gods be damned. Or I swear I'll see him dead. Yeah. Darren dies.

[B]

I like, this is like set up for Dunk at the end when Maker's like, okay, he can. You can take him as the squire. And then in the novella, Dunk is like, it's the. He's like, I'm not going to go to Summerhall. Yeah.

[A]

He's like, you can come to Summerhall where I live and he can be your squire there. And Dunk's like, no, I'm going on the road, dude.

[B]

Like Darren and. And Aryan, like, did they have any steak that wasn't like soft and bloody? You know? Look at those guys and look at where it led them. I thought that was. It was. That was well set up here too.

[A]

Kingsguard, they will be on the opposite side of this fight. The trial of the seven, which is Duncan and his allies, which includes Baylor and Lionel and a Beesbury and Harding and a Fosseway again against Aryan Mikah.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And the Kingsguard and a Foss way and you know, etc.

[B]

Will you forgive Sir Donnell for killing Beesbury?

[A]

I shall not.

[B]

Yeah, it's tough. It's tough.

[A]

I would like to spend more time with this Beesbury before we lose him. It would be nice.

[B]

The, the. The mustache dance in episode one wasn't enough.

[A]

No, it's never enough as far as Beesbury are concerned. But yeah, here's Duncan. He's like, here are my honorable here, you know, bright white heroes and they're going to be on Aryan side in this, in this fight that we have at the end of the, of the season.

[B]

It's brutal. I do like when Sir Roland comes back around in the third novella and the mystery night when he's part of the Blood Raven crew. I am excited for that. But obviously mostly on the Kingsguard front. You know, Sir Duncan the Tall, future Lord Commander of the Kingsguard. So this stuff is meaningful. The motley like four pages for Sir Duncan.

[A]

I say Barris and Selmy. The epitome, the platonic ideal of Kingsguard is Sir Duncan the Tall for all of the Kingsguard that come after, for all of the knights that come after, for all the boys of the realm and. And the Brienne of the realm who come after. Right. It is Sir Duncan the Tall, the.

[B]

Best on the Steely Pate front in the novella. I always love that he is the one when Dunk is like, they're for me. Like why are they for. And Steely Pate is the one who's like. Because you like stood up for them and you did the thing a knight is supposed to do. Yeah. So just doing. Seeing him kind of in this like tender, open hearted place, felt like a good setup there. What else? We got a nice good look at Valar's armor, presumably to set up the iconic book moment when Baelor is initially mistaken for the young prince when he comes in in his armor because he has to wear his son's armor. What else? Roger of Pennytree, the mace to the feast delivered by Gorman Peake, who is a key figure in the third novella and the third season presumably of this show. And that is a really great aspect when Dunk is like you're a piece of shit. But also I have personal reason to hate you. To hate you. And it is what you did to Roger of Penny Tree. Anything else on the. The book spoiler front?

[A]

I mean, I do think that tug of war was 7 on 7. I do think think it was and I think it was just like a little, a little mini preview. And even though Lionel like comes back and Lionel will be on Doug's side in the fight, Lionel wanting a. A fight at all times, spoiling constantly for a fight is a good reason to have him in in the. The final mix. But also Lionel leaving like is very Stefan Foss away. Just sort of like don't put your stake in, in these lords. They. They are mercurial and they will just. They will stir up a fight and then leave you, you know.

[B]

So you said you'd stand for him now. Did I? I'm sure I meant it at the time.

[A]

Yeah. All right.

[B]

Oh, Stephan, he sucks. Can't wait for episode three, I believe.

[A]

Episode three. They said that episode three is when the reveal happens.

[B]

Yeah. And the New York Comic Con panel. Dexter was like episode 3 is my favorite episode.

[A]

So we'll be much freer to talk about why this story matters next week.

[B]

Exciting. All right. Thank you. Thank you to our squad today. Carlos Chiraboga, the greatest Arjuna Ram Capel.

[A]

Even though he's a Patriots fan.

[B]

Yeah. I can't believe he love you. Aruna Super Bowl. He was at the AFC championship.

[A]

He's like from you, Joanna, who knows nothing about football.

[B]

Why show me Aden on the social And Donald, as mentioned, Donald Lono here with us today helping us out.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

Wonderful stuff. We'll be back Sunday night with CR for Talk the Thrones right after episode three. And then we will see you next Tuesday evening for the house of our deep dive on episode three.

[A]

And for that hypedra Hypedraft.

[B]

Did someone draft a Knight of the Seven Kingdoms? You'll have to find out.

[A]

Tune in.

[B]

Bye.