‘A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms’ Episode 3 Deep Dive

Summary

House of R: ‘A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms’ Episode 3 Deep Dive

Podcast: House of R (The Ringer Network)
Hosts: Mallory Rubin and Joanna Robinson
Episode: ‘A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms’ Episode 3 Deep Dive
Date: February 5, 2026

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Main Theme & Purpose

In this episode, Mallory Rubin and Joanna Robinson dive “full arm bone deep” into Episode 3 ("The Squire") of HBO’s A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms. They analyze narrative choices, Arthurian influences, themes of knighthood, the dynamics between Dunk and Egg, adaptation changes, and the shock of the episode’s big reveal. As always, Jo and Mal weave in extensive book lore, thoughts on character arcs, social context, and signature comedic banter.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Program Notes & Spoiler Policy

[02:30]–[04:29]

• Updates on podcast release schedules due to the Super Bowl and host Mallory’s migraine (“can’t look in the lights, look in the screen migraines”).
• Spoiler approach: Throughout the episode, book lore (from The Hedge Knight and broader Westeros canon) is mixed in for context. A ‘book look ahead’ spoiler section for future events comes at the end.
• The big reveal (Egg’s true identity) is discussed at length, with book spoilers clearly warned.

2. Episode Impressions & Thematic Framing

[06:00]–[13:41]

• Both hosts “loved it”—Mallory calls it her favorite so far: “They packed so much effective storytelling into 30 minutes. It's really kind of amazing.” [10:21]
• Sara Dina Smith directs; praised for insight into balancing show and book reveals.
• Joys of seeing Dunk and Egg's bond deepen—brotherly camaraderie, breakfast-making, and shared vulnerability.
• The title, “The Squire,” acts as a lens for exploring transitions in identity: “Egg is both a squire and he's not. Dunk...was a squire. This could be Raymond Fossoway...Whatever squire you prefer.” [07:43]
• Perception and labels in knightly society, and the duality of honor and social stigma attached to Hedge Knights.

3. Smallfolk Perspective & Worldbuilding

[11:55]–[14:00]

• Even though Egg is revealed as a Targaryen prince, the show sustains a POV rooted outside the halls of power.
• Both hosts are pleased that, despite royalty being involved, Dunk and Egg’s story keeps the smallfolk’s experience central.
• “It is still so fully entrenched in a different perspective and a different kind of energy...not spending all our time in the halls of power.” [13:03]

4. Faithful Adaptation vs. Show Inventions

[14:03]–[25:49]

• Many scenes closely trace the Hedge Knight novella; this episode, however, features the most ‘inventions’ or original content so far (e.g., extended Dunk/Egg bro time, songs, prophecies).
• Joanna lauds the expanded character moments and sings the praises of the newly-written bawdy songs, especially “Alice with Three Fingers.”
• Expanding the roles of supporting characters (Laughing Storm, Raymond Fossoway, Ashford Herald) is praised.
• Songs (“The Hammer and the Anvil,” Alice’s song) add “texture and vibrancy.”

5. Arthurian & Literary Influences

[36:09]–[40:51]

• The story is framed in the tradition of T.H. White’s The Sword in the Stone and Arthurian legend, with vibes of “a royal who doesn’t even know he’s royal.”
  • “Mallory: Shout out Wart!" [41:08]
  • “Joanna: George will constantly reference T.H. White.”
• Knights as ideals—contrasted, undercut, and complicated in both Westeros and Arthurian myth.
• Egg learning humility and joy through small, “unprincely” tasks echoes Merlin’s lessons for Wart.

6. Found Brotherhood & Teaching Moments

[45:55]–[54:00]

• Found family is the emotional heart: Dunk’s fear when Egg is missing; teaching him to sew; their mutual longing for belonging.
• “Mallory: That moment of waking up, I love that...forcing him to confront his vulnerability.” [73:08]
• “Joanna: This is a tale of sworn brothers...letting them be for each other what their own families never were.” [77:23]
• Egg’s longing for another life: “I think I could be quite happy in a place like this.” [102:23]

7. Notable Character Analysis & Moments

a. Egg as Squire (and Prince)

• Subtle shift from insolent child to a boy yearning for a real connection and purpose. His pride at Dunk’s praise (“You think so?” [53:37]) shows growing affection and need for approval.

b. Scatological, Bodily Humor

• “We open episode three with a shit. I can’t wait to see what episode four brings to continue the pattern...I enjoy scatological humor. I just think this is funny.” [46:21]
• This humor roots the series in smallfolk reality and hedges against high fantasy pomposity.

c. Robyn Reisling: The Zealous Knight

• “When it is madness bid, it is madness delivered.” [60:07]
• The motif of the knight as both mad and heroic; the ambiguity of fighting for the ‘warrior’s honor.’

8. Songs and Storytelling within Westeros

[24:47]–[25:31], [83:07]–[84:31]

• Bawdy, in-world songs like “Hammer and the Anvil” and “Alice with Three Fingers” are both comedy and commentary.
• Lyrics reflect how history is mythologized; hosts speculate about “more stately” versions existing in canon (à la “The Rains of Castamere”).

9. Tournament Field: Class and Corruption

[108:00]–[113:33]

• Dunk approached for match-fixing: “I do not want a victory I have not earned.” [109:47]
• The test of Dunk’s honor, the temptation of coin, and the erosion of knightly ideals via systemic corruption.

10. The Big Reveal: Egg’s Identity

[175:19]–[181:15]

• Egg’s real name and status (Aegon Targaryen, Maekar’s youngest son, Maester Aemon's brother) explode onto the stage when he exposes himself in defense of Dunk.
• Dunk’s devastation—betrayed by Egg’s secret and thrust unknowingly into grave peril.
• Joanna: “The betrayal here...not only in trouble for what I’ve just done, but now I’m in so much trouble for having any dealings with this Targaryen prince.” [179:25]

11. Themes of Perception, Suffering, and Fate

• The persistent tension between how characters see themselves and how the world sees them.
• “The fragility of their bond, this newly formed bond...Understand what is potentially lost here at the end with the reveal.” [11:50]
• The Targaryen dynasty’s vulnerability without dragons, pre-echoing its eventual doom.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

[07:04] Joanna: "This is just sort of like a fun, sort of telenovela...dun, dun, dun, reveal. Really fun, but in a funny way."

[10:21] Mallory: “It had real Avengers, sitting around the table eating shawarma...It’s important to see your figures of myth and legend...just making breakfast. There’s something so charming and winning about how that allows us to invest in their lives...”

[18:54] Joanna: “The people who didn’t know, it’s a huge surprise, a giant what the fuck moment. And that’s great.”

[24:45] Mallory: “We got two great full song lyric rundowns in this song...The Anvil, Alice’s song. Fun, really great. It adds a lot of texture and vibrancy and just life to the episode, but it also allows us to take something that we know exists and experience it in full.”

[40:51] Joanna: “George will constantly reference T.H. White...it’s worth thinking about in the context of what he's trying to say inside this story.”

[60:00] Robin (as quoted by Egg): “We are a vessel for the warrior—when it is madness bid, it is madness delivered.” (Mallory’s intro callback)

[73:08] Mallory: “The look on his face, this vulnerability. There’s the actual—if Egg left and took my horse and took my sword—he would have nothing. But there’s something much bigger going on here. Trusted him. Trusted this boy, brought him into his life and grew attached...”

[102:23] Egg (Dexter Sol Ansell): “I think I could be quite happy in a place like this.”

[109:47] Dunk (paraphrased): "I do not want a victory I have not earned." (on match fixing)

[173:05] Joanna: “I love the idea...He knew that Dunk would do the right thing. He’s hurting her—the puppet girl—and that’s it, and Dunk’s...He doesn't doubt that Dunk is going to do this where we've seen...other knights not get involved."

[175:21] Egg (to Arian): “I cut it off, brother. I didn’t want to look like you.”

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Timestamps for Core Segments

• 00:06–02:30: Introductions, framework, schedule, spoiler warning
• 06:04–13:41: First thoughts, episode title, character perceptions
• 13:41–18:54: Smallfolk perspective, show’s DNA, book departures
• 36:09–41:08: Arthurian legends, T.H. White’s influence
• 45:55–54:00: Sibling/found family dynamic, Dunk’s vulnerability, sewing and chores scenes
• 60:00: “We are a vessel for the warrior”/Knighthood themes
• 83:07–84:31: Songs, storytelling, “The Hammer and the Anvil”
• 108:00–113:33: Match fixing, Dunk’s honor
• 175:19–181:15: Big reveal—Egg’s identity, immediate fallout
• 181:18–End: Book spoiler section, Aegon's future (King Aegon V, Summerhall, legacy)

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Additional Highlights

- Listener Mailbag

• Discussion on which book additions are viewers’ favorites—songs, expanded supporting roles, and humor all get high marks.
• Fun speculation on how many “Mystery Knights” attend tourneys without paperwork.

- Metatextual & Fandom Moments

• Joanna relates stories about watching with book-newbie friends and the widespread surprise at Egg’s reveal.
• Noted that many fans wrote in begging not to be spoiled (“Carlos has ensured I can’t miss this to the point I might crash my car”).

- Running Gags & House of R Humor

• Full “arm bone” deep becomes a new House of R catchphrase.
• Extended sidebar on breakfast sandwiches, Greek yogurt, and the algorithm serving Mallory food videos.
• Trapper keeper/nineties kid tangent (“you don’t know what a trapper keeper is?”).
• Repeated references to Giles’ hotness (Buffy), sausages on television, “bad apples,” and the “industry pod stealth takeover” within their Thrones deep dive.

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Book Spoiler Section (Post-181:18)

• Full exploration of Egg’s future as Aegon the Unlikely (King Aegon V), the tragedy of Summerhall, and the new prophecy concocted for the show (“Ye shall be king and die in a hot fire, and worms shall feed upon your ashes, and all who know you shall rejoice in your dying.”)
• Rich theorizing on how prophecies drive character action (Cersei/Maggy the Frog, Daenerys’ visions, etc.).
• Egg’s arc as a reformer king whose hope and innocence, forged in these adventures, ultimately leads to tragedy through hubris, pursuit of dragons, and the Summerhall fire.
• “All who know you shall rejoice in your dying”—how tragic is that, given Egg’s bond with Aemon and Dunk?

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Takeaways for New Listeners

• The episode captures the delicate tonal mix of A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms: charming, comic, yet shot through with melancholy, class violence, and looming doom.
• Dunk and Egg’s relationship—fostered in these slice-of-life moments, layered with secrecy and yearning—forms an emotional anchor.
• The “big reveal” is situated narratively and thematically, highlighting both Egg’s unexpected vulnerability and the gravity of fate/history.
• House of R elevates the discussion by blending scholarly insights (Arthurian legend, literary tropes), allusions to the wider Thrones world, and irreverent, fan-forward humor.

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Listen For

• The full rendition and thematic parsing of “Alice with Three Fingers” and “The Hammer and the Anvil” ([83:07–84:31]), including Egg’s “honor and hope” analysis.
• Not-so-subtle Arthurian parallels, especially Wart/Merlin/Egg/Dunk comp lines ([36:09–41:08], [105:41–106:31]).
• Mal and Jo’s running bits about breakfast, bodily functions, fandom drama, and founding House of R in the Eagle and Child.

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House of R will be back with Talk the Thrones immediately after Episode 4 (dropped early for Super Bowl weekend) and then another deep dive on Tuesday. Subscribe, avoid spoilers, and email [e-mail] with questions or theories—especially about the “Seven Theory,” book adaptation, or future Egg and Dunk adventures.

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“We are a vessel for the warrior. When it is madness bid, it is madness delivered.” – Ser Robin Reisling [60:00]
“I think I could be quite happy in a place like this.” – Egg [102:23]
“You might have just asked for a pinky, but we’re giving you all three fingers and the whole bone.” – Mallory Rubin [03:42]

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[End of Summary]

Transcript

[Joanna Robinson]

Foreign.

[Mallory Rubin]

And welcome to House of R, A Ringer verse podcast on the Ringer Podcast Network. I'm Mallory Rubin joining me today to remind us that when it is madness bid, it is madness delivered. Yeah, it's Joanna Robinson.

[Joanna Robinson]

I thought you were gonna say I'm here to give you the whole arm bone.

[Mallory Rubin]

If you want to just start talking about Alice right now. We.

[Joanna Robinson]

You know the phrase like put your foot in it or like whatever. Like, sure, I think we should just replace it with give it the. The whole arm bone, as it were.

[Mallory Rubin]

You don't need to talk me into it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Great.

[Mallory Rubin]

I'm down. In case you can't tell, we are here to dive deep into a night of the seven Kingdoms. That's right, full arm bone. Deep into episode three. Yeah, right after this.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

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[Mallory Rubin]

All right, Joe, a quick refresher on how we do this. Talk the Thrones normally Sunday nights right after the episode. This week. The super bowl is on Sunday. They're posting a Night of the Seven Kingdoms episode four early, like overnight heading into Friday, right?

[Joanna Robinson]

Midnight.

[Mallory Rubin]

That's right. Midnight Pacific, 3am Eastern. So when you wake up on Friday talk, the Thrones will be waiting for you already. That means Whenever you watch episode four of A Night of the Seven Kingdoms talk, the thrones will be there waiting for you.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's true.

[Mallory Rubin]

Great news then. We will be back next Tuesday evening for the deep dive on episode four. We're with you on Wednesday this week because I had just a terrible migraine and could not podcast yesterday. Sorry, thanks for waiting. We appreciate it. One of those, like, can't look in the lights, look in the screen migraines. Doing great today in Tip Top.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, yeah, I'm fine. Okay.

[Mallory Rubin]

I'm doing great. Spoiler warning. In case anybody needs a refresher on this as well, here's how we do it. We're going to sprinkle book information both from the Hedge Night novella on which this season of television is based and all of the canon throughout the podcast as we go. For context, for additional insights, clarity, frankly.

[Joanna Robinson]

Just because we like to read elbow deep. Profound insights.

[Mallory Rubin]

That's right. You might have just asked for a pinky, but we're giving you all three fingers and the whole bone. But if it is about future events yet to come in this season of television in the novel, that will all be separate, waiting for you at the end of the podcast in a book. Look ahead, spoiler section. You will be warned before that section begins, so you cannot miss it. The people of the world, the bad babies, they. They have said quite clearly, Carlos has ensured I can't miss this to the point where I might crash my car.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yep, we did get. I. I'm afraid for my life when I hear the spoiler warning. But is that better than being spoiled?

[Mallory Rubin]

It's better than being spoiled. I mean, we're providing a service. Carlos is providing a service.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think so. For the listeners. Thank you, Carlos.

[Mallory Rubin]

How can everybody follow along?

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, my God, I'm so glad you asked me that. First of all, why don't you follow us wherever you get your podcasts? I'm not here to tell you where that is, but wherever it is, why don't you subscribe to House of R? You've got Talk the Thrones, you've got our Deep dives, and you've got a bunch of other stuff, including, hopefully this week, if all goes according to plan, Buffy Season three, Part two, at long last.

[Mallory Rubin]

That's right.

[Joanna Robinson]

So, you know, there's a lot, lot to love about the House of Our Feet.

[Mallory Rubin]

You can catch up on the hyped draft if you haven't yet.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, yeah. I did a great job.

[Mallory Rubin]

Everybody did great. Everybody.

[Joanna Robinson]

Are you winning? Are you still winning? Yeah. Hell yeah. As I told you I voted for you because I knew I was going to win. And it was important to me that one of us won. So I threw my vote behind Mallory. Not strategic draft, but strategic voting. Okay. Also.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Why don't you follow us on the social media platform of your choice? We're on Instagram at ringoverse, we're on TikTok, we're on a bunch of other places, wherever you like to gather and get your information and then. Hobbitsanddragonsmail.com Real doozy in the inbox this week. You guys are really, really vibing on Night of the Seven Kingdoms. You have a lot of opinions about who knew what, when, and why. And we're gonna get to some of your emails quite soon. How.

[Mallory Rubin]

What would you say, percentage wise, how many of the emails this week were about Alice?

[Joanna Robinson]

Very low percentage. Most of them were like, you knew.

[Mallory Rubin]

We had it covered.

[Joanna Robinson]

Most of them were like, hey, Joanna and Mallory, not everyone lives online and not. And most people didn't know who the fuck Ed was. Great. So we love that.

[Mallory Rubin]

Fantastic.

[Joanna Robinson]

We love a surprise.

[Mallory Rubin]

F.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's the.

[Mallory Rubin]

That's the programming rundown. That's the spoiler warning. Yeah, that's where you can find us. Let's get to the opening snapshot. Joanna, what did you think of this episode of television, episode three, the Squire?

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, thanks. I loved it.

[Mallory Rubin]

Same.

[Joanna Robinson]

Thanks. I loved it. All of the stuff. I mean, the reveal, I thought was done really, really well. And Sarah Dina Smith, who directed this episode and then I believe is directing 4 and 6 is, was a really fun person to give insight into this episode. I really loved everything she had to say about it. But I love the way that she talked about all the time we got to spend with Duncan Egg together, just being bros, guys being guys, pals being pals. Really, really great stuff. And then the way she talked about the reveal because, like, okay, whether or not you're terminally online, have read the books, or. Or were completely surprised, she talked about how they wanted to deliver something for everyone no matter how you were coming to the show.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

And I really love that because I hate when a show is like, aren't you surprised when you know a percentage of the audience is yes.

[Mallory Rubin]

Or you must have done the homework.

[Joanna Robinson]

Either way, Right? Either way. And so this is just sort of like a fun, like, sort of telenovela, almost like the Californians SNL sketch. Like, dun, dun, dun reveal. Really fun, but like in a funny way. And then there's just the emot of what does this mean for Dunk. And what does this mean for Egg going forward? The betrayal inside of a heroic act from both of them, you know, and so I just loved all of that. I also wanted to ask you about the title of the episode. The Squire.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, Right.

[Joanna Robinson]

This could be Egg. This could be Dunk himself, who was a squire. This could be Raymond Fossoway. Like, you know, it could be whatever. Whatever squire you prefer. But I was thinking about the episode titles we've had so far, right? Like, Egg is both a squire and he's not. Right. Dunk in the first episode, A Night of the Seven Kingdoms. Is he? We don't know. That's the question that the show is asking. Right. And then salt beef. Is Arlen salt beef or is he not? It's a good question to ask, but, like, certainly titles that are just sort of like a title that is much more complicated. Is Dunk actually offering Egg a life of salt beef? No, we get egg sammies and, like, walking. Walk and talk sausages inside of this episode. So, like, I just. I want to keep tracking the episode titles and sort of see what they're trying to. To give us there.

[Mallory Rubin]

But I love it. And I think also the idea of perception, right? What not only these characters think about themselves. And we. We love an episode that applies to multiple different aspects of the story or different character sets. Certainly the way that Dunk, when Egg is off with thunder and Dunk wakes up to find himself alone, immediately falls back into the rhythm of life as a squire, sewing his own patches, lighting his own fire. You know, this. This reinforcement of this transitional moment in his life, and the thing that he is trying to lean into and build and forge, but the thing that he left literal days ago. Days ago. And, you know, I think that on the perception front, what do people think about Dunk and his stature as a knight or a squire? The way that he looked at Raymond when it was getting to know him. And we talked about the passage in the book for, you know, the additional context in prior episodes of, like, oh, you're a squire. Like, one of us must be a fool. But the first title being, you know, a hedge knight, the fact that Dunk, as Arlen did before, carries that with him as both a point of honor and a badge of pride. And that's going to come up a lot as we talk today about the choices that Dunk makes and the way that he thinks about true virtue and chivalry, but the way that plenty of people, both at Ashford Meadow and across the realm at large, would take the idea of the hedge knight and wield it against him. Right. Use it as a diminishment or some sort of admonishment moment.

[Joanna Robinson]

Sad. It is.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's very, very, very sad.

[Joanna Robinson]

I was doing my.

[Mallory Rubin]

It is sad.

[Joanna Robinson]

My impression.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's a good impression, and it is sad. So I love this episode as well. I thought this was wonderful. I think every episode so far has been good, but this was my favorite, and I think they packed so much effective storytelling into 30 minutes. It's really kind of amazing. I thought this was charming and funny to the point you made about just kind of hanging out. It had real, like, Avengers sitting around the table eating shawarma or, like, hanging out, trying to lift Mjolnir energy. Like, it's important to see your figures of myth and legend, great heroes and characters of consequence across the canon, just like making breakfast. There's something so charming and winning about how that allows us to invest in their lives, the rhythm of their lives.

[Joanna Robinson]

I love that comp. And I was also thinking about, you know, when we see Egg say, I could be happy in a place like this, like, in dreaming of a future. This idea of which we talk about, when we talk about Lord of the Rings, of, like, it's important to spend time in the Shire so that we understand what's at risk here. Yes. And what's at risk is not even, like, Dunk's life or Egg's life or anything. By the end of the episode, though, Dunk is certainly in a lot of hot water for assaulting a Targaryen prince. But it's the fragility of their bond, this newly formed bond. We get to see what it means for them to be like, to tease each other, to be brothers, you know, for Dunk to be afraid that Egg has. Has abandoned him in the morning and then just sort of, like, sad settle back into this joy of companionship and dreaming of a future together. And so it's important to, like, understand all of that.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

To understand what is potentially lost here at the end with the reveal.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, I love all of that. I love. The other thing I really liked about this episode is, you know, we talked about this a lot, I think, fairly carefully, while breaking down the trailers. And then in the early episodes of the season, this idea embraced by George, actively championed by George, is one of the things he. He loves so much about the story and Ira Parker and the show team, this idea that we are in a story in the world of the small folk. Right. And this is a tale of commoners. And I Remember when we were covering the trailers like that, I had, like, a bit of worry, actually, about overstating that, simply because one of the two people in the two Hander is a, as revealed in this episode, Targaryen prince. Right. And so obviously, we knew from the beginning that the Targaryens were going to be in this season of television and are in this story. But the fact that royalty is part of this. It's this episode, I think, very effectively, slightly, ever so slightly, without in any way undermining, recalibrates the positioning of that idea. And yet it is still true. And actually, the fact that one of the two primary figures is a princeling, and yet this is still so fully entrenched in a different perspective and a different kind of energy, like, we're still not spending all of our time in the halls of power. And the fact that actually we could be because of who one of the characters is, makes that even more enticing. So I like that we now have, like, a clearer. That everybody watching the show has a clearer understanding of how truly unique that is. It's actually even more interesting than if we were just with, like, Daisy and Red and Brany and Dunk and Egg. Aegon Targaryen. We're not in the mix at all. So it's fun to be at that point in the narrative.

[Joanna Robinson]

Overall, I think also there could have been a temptation. We do get, as you and I discussed on Talk of the Thrones, we get this sort of premise breaking, as you're saying, moment where. Not premise breaking, but we're with Egg.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Dunk's asleep back at camp. We're off with Egg and Thunder. Right. So we're either in Thunder's POV or we're in Egg's pov.

[Mallory Rubin]

I'm always in Thunder's pov.

[Joanna Robinson]

We're not in Dunk's pov. Right.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

So that was like a sort of like, oh, okay. To your point. But they could have. You know, we got a question from a listener, which we'll get to in a second, about sort of like the fact that this episode has so much DNA from the book, but also has the most departures from the book in terms of, like, invented moments. And it's just sort of stretching out Duncan Egg's time together, I think.

[Mallory Rubin]

A.

[Joanna Robinson]

And before the reveal. But. But inside of all of those inventions, there isn't, like, we don't need to see Maekar and Arryon in a scene together. We don't need to see Baelor and Ayrrien in A scene together. We get it just from, like, Baelor rolling his eyes and being exasperated. That's a mild term with, like, what Arian does in the tourney fields. Like, things are accomplished with glances that another show might feel like, oh, we really need to establish what an asshole Aryan is. I'm like, no, we get it.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. And our. Our response to what he does in this epis, both with Humphrey Harding out in the lists and his poor horse, and of course with Tanzel, is how is Dunk receiving this and responding to it and processing it, and how is it influencing and impacting and radically altering his perception of what it means to be a person who carries a certain title, Knight, Prince, Targaryen, whatever the case may be. But then how does the rest of the realm respond? The fact that this episode, and this was another thing we talked about in the run up to the season, because Ira Parker was talking about how Arianne is a character who. He likes the ambiguity of not really saying definitively this is what's going on in his head. And we do know things about him, and we have extra insights from the book, some of which we'll talk about today and moving forward, but that he is a little bit of an enigma by design. And the fact that the episode is not really positioning us inside of Arian's brain, so that he is saying to us, this is exactly why I do this. We have enough to be able to deduce and discern that, certainly. But the thrust of the drama comes from how people respond. The people who are in the stands watching him, the people who are saying, this is the thing that you have done. His very brother, his brother, his uncle. The crowd that parts for him when he walks into the puppet show, not out of respect, but out of fear. Fear out of terror.

[Joanna Robinson]

And this episode could have been called the Dragon or the Dragon, Not Lose or something like that, but it's called the Squire. Because this isn't Arian's episode. This is more than anything else.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. And like, that, you know, that humble aspect of a squire's work is, like, so centered in this episode in a way, I love and, like, reminded me of the things that you've been citing across the prior two episodes. You know, the idea of, like, the time that Dunk spent cleaning and preserving the sword for Arlen and the way that, like, what it means to wake up and not only serve your knight, but forge this family. That's part of why I love the Egg Thunder opening stretch of this episode, like, really reinforcing this idea of this unit that you protect and that you.

[Joanna Robinson]

And the horses are part of it.

[Mallory Rubin]

Absolutely. The horses are part of it. What a great. Well, I can't wait to talk about Thunder's performance in this episode. Memorable stuff. Anything else before we get to some of the opening mailbag items on other topics that we want to share from the listeners about Just this question of whether people were surprised because it really did seem like we got in emails and comments on. On the Talk of Thrones episode, et cetera, all over the interwebs really kind of ran the gamut, like a mix of people saying, well, either I knew and here's my reaction to it, or I was astonished or I didn't have any relationship to the source material, but I literally googled this dude once and had it spoiled for me. Which that specifically was the thing that, like, was a head scratcher and a puzzler. Not in any way this idea that people have to be mainlining the source text or diving deep into the wikis or anything. Just that, like, it was, you were half a sentence away from having this blown for you at any point in time over the run up to the season or the first few weeks. So I'm frankly really relieved that it was preserved for as many people as it seems to have been preserved for.

[Joanna Robinson]

We got far too many anecdotes for me to be to relay, but they were all like, very delightful about people watching with pals who didn't know or like, conversations that they'd had at dinner parties leading up to or whatever, where they were just sort of testing that fun way that, like, sure, if you're good at hiding a spoiler, which, like, I think sometimes I am and sometimes I'm not or whatever. But like, you just sort of ask your friends, like, oh, do you have any theories about who you think, you know, egg is? And like, the, the answers that all these people got were just sort of like all over the map or like, well, he's just a kid or something, you know, whatever. So I'm sure some people clocked it, but plenty of people didn't. And, and what seems to be the case for the people who didn't? And that's great. I love that. The people who didn't. It's a huge surprise, like a giant what the fuck Moment. And that's.

[Mallory Rubin]

That's great.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's just, I think we were just worried that it was just a big secret to keep. And especially, I think we were especially a little salty when we felt like HBO was sort of like playing it both ways with some of their social media stuff. But again, not everyone's trolling the Game of Thrones Instagram like I am. Exactly. And then our listener Steve wrote in to say I miraculously avoided spoilers for Sunday night's big egg reveal. I found big twists hit harder on screen than on page. This brings me to a question I'm afraid to Google. Are there upcoming show twists that the novella reveals earlier or can I dive in while keeping the surprise for the show? Smaller twists are fine, really. Just looking to preserve the Red Wedding slash Hodor level events for Sunday nights instead of Ye Olde Commute. So the thing. So I think what Steve is asking is like, can I listen? Sounds like, listen to the audio.

[Mallory Rubin]

The first half like to like up.

[Joanna Robinson]

Until, you know, dunk. You know, dunk punching Aryan and press pause. And will I be spoiled? I don't think there's anything in that first part I will say. And I actually don't think. I mean, no. There are big events that happen in the back half of this story for sure that I want everyone to experience on the screen if they haven't been spoiled. But I will say we had another listener ask, like in our spoiler section, do we just keep it to the hedge night or. No, no, no, I know, I know. I was gonna say we don't just keep to the hedge night. We will talk about the Sworn sword. We'll talk about the mystery night. Like, you know, we will talk about the other novellas. So like the spoiler section is just a free for all in case you were like, well, now that I know I can top into the spoiler section, I wouldn't do that. So I would say to Steve and anyone listening, I do think you can listen to the first half of this novella or read it if you want to and not be spoiled.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, I think that's definitely true. Inside of the first novella. I think there is still. If you really want to proceed with caution and this gets just again to the larger question of how the show is positioned and not saying this is just who these characters are in the world. Overall, I think there is still some risk of broader book summary log lines in terms of just future. This is who these people are. Proceed with caution. I would just open the first page of the of the hedge night and start there.

[Joanna Robinson]

Be careful. Always. I will say page 75. Page 70. 75 is a drawing. But page 74 ends with if you. If you have the copy of the book, I cut it off. Brother said egg. I didn't Want to look like you. Don't. Don't. That's page 74 of this edition.

[Mallory Rubin]

There's a nice pause, a long pregnant pause in the audiobook there, too. Yeah, great stuff. All right, what other opening snapshot mailbag items do we want to hit?

[Joanna Robinson]

We wanted to offer congratulations to Rachel and Dennis on their engagement. Two bad babies found each other in the wild. And that's just like really, really sweet. So thank you for that email. I also want to send some love to a listener, Amy Lee. I won't get into the details of her email, but it was very touching and I wanted to send some love out to her. We got after the Hypedraft when we talked about when you asked me like, I think it was you or maybe Sean, probably you, which translation of the Odyssey I would be reading. And I was like, oh, I don't know. Probably the one that I had in college, which actually the one I had in high school, which is the Fitzgerald translation. We got more emails than we have for anything in a long time. Recommendations from listeners recommending that we read the Emily Wilson translation of the Odyssey, which I went and picked up from a Los Angeles bookstore yesterday. And, oh, Barnes and Noble, you can see I meant to shop a little bit more locally, but they didn't have it. But the big box store did. Thank you, Barnes and Noble. But I still supported Brick and Mortar. But, but Emily Wilson, this is a, a newish translation is the first time a woman has ever translated the Odyssey. But and even more than that, I would say a lot of people really praise this translation for its not like modernity in that it's sort of like hip slang language or any or, or anything like that, but just sort of like very clean, easy to navigate sort of language. And then there's the Fagel's translation, which I think a lot of people praise for how poetic it is. So that's another option. But I've also been told by listeners that the audiobook for this translation is narrated by Claire Danes. So that's a fun fact as well. Oh my goodness. That's just part of our Odyssey. Odyssey that I would like to thank so many of the Bhad Bhabies for chiming in on. Also our listener, David. This is the. This is what I flagged before. He said this episode seemed to have the most original content that wasn't in the book yet. So I'm curious, which scenes from the first three episodes is your favorite show? Addition. Do you have an answer to this?

[Mallory Rubin]

I would say just like in general, the choice to move up the introduction and full incorporation of certain characters and to just expand their roles. So, like, as we've been talking about from the beginning, the Laughingstorm. Lyonel Baratheon is just a earlier, bigger presence in the show than he is in the book. He's been in every episode so far. He's made an impression in every episode so far.

[Joanna Robinson]

Robin.

[Mallory Rubin]

I had always said Riesling previously. Rice Riesling per egg. That's not how Harry Lloyd says it in the audiobook. So I think we have free reign to say it how we want.

[Joanna Robinson]

Mika Riesling. Like the wine or.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, that's my answer. The Ashford Herald, who's here to give us very specific pronunciations. You know, he's with us in a slightly different way. So just like learning a little bit more about some of these characters. Yeah. Raymond has, I would say, like a really a dialed up energy compared to what we had been trained to expect from the novella, but then also just like taking little nuggets and fleshing them out. Like, we got two great full song lyric rundowns in this song.

[Joanna Robinson]

You know, my answer is the songs.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, the Anvil, Alice's song. This is like, really fun, really great. It adds a lot of texture and vibrancy and just life to the episode, but it also allows us to take something that we know exists and experience it in full. And I think in a way that feels utterly tonally appropriate and specific to this show, like highly comedic, really lewd. But also, you believe that that could have been the case anywhere in Westeros that these lyrics popped up for us. So all of that is, like, really great. What else? I mean, all of it, it's just been a. It's been like a thrill. The show is so good.

[Joanna Robinson]

So no, one thing. You're not gonna pick one thing. It's the Herald. It's your guy, the Herald.

[Mallory Rubin]

And I do love him. I am a fan of his. Now, I don't know if I have just absolutely one thing. I think just in general, the choices to expand or slide up all feel like purposeful and appropriate to me. Really have not missed on that.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think really fulfilling the prompt that Ira Parker saved, which is just to sort of deepen and flesh out the world, but not sort of dramatically change anything, which is why George is like Ira Parker, my favorite it, you know, sort of thing. Okay. And our listener. And for me, it's the songs. And I try. I have a question about what you keep calling the Hammer and the Anvil. Because I'm not convinced that that's like the Hammer and the Anvil song, Do you know what I mean? Even though they mention it, yeah, I feel like there's probably a more stately version of the Hammer and the Anvil that exists. Maybe. I did ask my friend Jenny, who's friends with Dan Roemer, to see if like he would answer some questions for me. So stay tuned. You know, that's like all I want to know in the world is more about the songs. Okay. And then our listener Brian had this question about Mystery Nights, which I thought was interesting. How do so many Mystery Nights end up in the into tourneys if they aren't able to give their credentials? There are several Mystery Nights mentioned, but thinking specifically the Night of the Laughing Tree at the tourney of Harrenhal, keeping things spoiler free, there are several assumed candidates for the identity identity of the Night of the Laughing Tree. Yeah, but how would one of these people have been able to enter attorney that prestigious without having to prove that they are actually a knight? Neither Laughing Tree is described as small in stature, wearing pieces of armor that don't fit well or match Ser Dunk the Hunk. Great name. Being given such a hard time just makes me really curious how this could have happened without King Aerys being aware of who the Night of the Laughing Tree really was. Do you have any thoughts on that?

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, I guess it's an interesting question. I guess there's kind of like in the most broad and basic sense, it's worth us noting again that tourney rules really vary setting to setting. Like one of the things we learn actually in this novella is that there are like a dozen different forms that Attorney can take. One of the things that we hear reinforced actually by Plumber in in the the the show as well here is that like Lord Ashford is after a certain type of prestige and credibility. Right? So I don't want to get into particulars and spoiler future things for Dunk storyline obviously, but I will say he does not have this problem at other points in the canon in a different setting. So a lot of this is like Ashford and Plummer insisting on a certain level of vetting because Ash Lord Ashford.

[Joanna Robinson]

Wants to be able to say Lady Gwyn's birthday.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, look who showed up to ride in the list for Gwyn. So it really just part of it is is that it varies setting to setting in terms of the form attorney takes, but also what level of like rigor the host is going to insist on.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's a very convincing answer. I also Want to say that this idea of the Mystery Night as a trope is, you know, obviously something that George likes. Likes to play with, and it is an iconic trope of chivalric stories. I was just talking to a friend of mine who is working on talking to her about the Power Rangers and how Tommy, the Green Ranger, like, something happens and then he comes back as the White Ranger. And it was like this. Sorry, spoilers for the original the Power Rangers TV show. But this is like, I remember that blew my tiny mind. And then I went to like, have you ever been to the medieval times? Like, to go to one of the medieval times, sort of like, maybe like.

[Mallory Rubin]

Once Tourney bank did, but maybe not.

[Joanna Robinson]

Actually, same thing happens, right? My guy, the Green Knight, dies, and he comes back as the Mystery Knight, and then he, like, reveals himself as the Green Knight, and you're like, holy shit. So this is something that happens in Ivanhoe, which is like the clear source for the Hedge Knight, right. Ivanhoe rides under the title the Disinherited Knight, and King Richard himself goes in disguise as the Black Knight. So this is a common trope that it's royals.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Disguised as Mystery Knight, so they can comment and tilt on the list and stuff like that. So, you know, it's. It's. It's a trope of this particular kind of storytelling. I do think that I. I'm convinced by what you said, but I also think George sometimes contradicts himself inside of these novellas as well, and I think.

[Mallory Rubin]

Some of it fits into the. Actually, I guess this is inspires. I'll go back to answer the prior question and say my favorite adaptive change is just putting a lot more blackfire rebellion in this season of tv, which is very appropriate given the shadow that's going to cast over future events and just this time point in the timeline. But as you've noted on prior pods, George hadn't locked in that canon yet when he wrote this novella, so it's not present in the text for the first novella in a way that it should be and makes sense to be here in the show. On that same front, it is just so thematically appropriate. In addition to just being something George loves historically and wants to incorporate into his fictional universe, it is so appropriate for Dunk to find himself at the beginning of his journey in this place where the idea of needing to prove that he belongs and it's really hard for him to prove that he belongs is an appropriate place to find him. And that is maybe less useful elsewhere in the canon. It's a lot more useful elsewhere in the canon to say who is this figure out there who is astonishing people.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right?

[Mallory Rubin]

Whether there is a difference between the master of the games in a given setting knowing who is actually behind a given shield or helm, and the masses not knowing is is less important than what the point George is trying to make inside of a given story is. Tales grow in the telling.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. And I don't think, as spoilers say the third novella is called the Mystery.

[Mallory Rubin]

Night, it is indeed this is a.

[Joanna Robinson]

Trope that will come up.

[Mallory Rubin]

It is indeed another great one where a lot of different we can apply that title to a lot of different parts of that story, can't we can't wait to get to that season. Fun one. Anything else before we hit the deep dive?

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't think so. We've got a couple other emails, but we'll hit them, sort of sprinkle them as we go.

[Mallory Rubin]

Fantastic. Okay, we are going to go as usual scene by scene through the episode in chronological order. So let's get to the this episode.

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[Joanna Robinson]

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[Mallory Rubin]

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[Mallory Rubin]

The deep dive. Okay, two tickets to the Thunder and Egg show, please. Dunk's sleeping in Egg. He is up with the sunrise. Very familiar morning podcast, energy pit of anxiety in his stomach thinking about all the prep that awaits.

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't even want to talk about how early I woke up this morning. Honestly, this is.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, this same. This is an early, early day. Egg saddles Thunder, grabs the sword. Preps to lead him right into the structural departure that you already mentioned today. We're not in Dunk's point of view in this opening scene. Now, Dunk is very pretty present in this scene because everything that Egg and Thunder are doing is about Dunk.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

And so he is there with us, but we are not in his perspective. We talked about this a little bit on Talk of the Thrones was just this little taste of a different point of view inside of the show. Enough to make you want more of that? Wish we had more of that. Even though obviously being rooted in Dunk's point of view is very true to the novella.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think if it makes sense for the story, that's great. But like, like, I like being with Dunk as much as we've been.

[Mallory Rubin]

And so you're open to the occasional departure.

[Joanna Robinson]

Sure. I mean, if it makes sense. And I reserve the right to not like it if I decide it doesn't make sense. But Sarah. Sarah Dina Smith, the director, and her DP were talking about how they felt like this was a chance for them to do something different with the camera. So you get a lot of, like, swooping crane shots and stuff like that to, like, really just show us. I just love that they're like, okay, we're gonna make the cinematography different because we're in a different pov. Like, I thought that was just really.

[Mallory Rubin]

Cool because this character is a different height.

[Joanna Robinson]

You sure is smaller.

[Mallory Rubin]

Tiny little egg. Oh, man. Can't wait to just start saying egg. Egg freely. Now that we know who Egg is and that he's Ma's brother, we can say that without. I said that on a trailer pod. And then I had to slack Carlos and be like, cut that out. I don't want to spoil that. He's related to Maester. A. Oh, no. I mean, weeks of panic about accidentally tipping who Egg is now. Egg soothes thunder. Easy, boy. He's pushing him. He's encouraging him. They're stubborn. His old iron. He offers up Maekar, his father, we know now his opinion on horses. My father told me, you should never talk to a horse. And then Egg's like, I don't think that's true. And not only is this wonderful because Dunk is such a horse girl, as we've talked about. Right. And we're seeing that Egg also has this, like, soothing, nurturing, bonding with animals energy, that same kind of, like, winning shorthand that we've discussed. It's also a great way to show us the fatherly lessons passed down to Ag over the years of his life so far.

[Joanna Robinson]

Let's.

[Mallory Rubin]

Let's just move those aside in favor of what Dunk has taught Egg and showed Egg over just a couple days.

[Joanna Robinson]

My dad's lessons created an Aryan. Is that who I want to be? Not really, no. I wanted to take a second, and I'm going to do it throughout this podcast. So just buckle up, buttercups. But I mentioned this on Talk of Thrones, that an inspiration for this story is T.H. white's sword in the Stone, Wart and Egg and their comps. And so, like the idea of even if you've never read T.H. white's books, which you definitely should, if you've seen the Disney cartoon, you will know that, like, part of Wart's lessons from Wart being Arthur. So, like a royal who doesn't even know he's a royal, which is different than Egg who.

[Mallory Rubin]

Damn.

[Joanna Robinson]

Talk about spoilers for just kids. We're in this stone.

[Mallory Rubin]

Kidding.

[Joanna Robinson]

But part of Merlin's lessons for Ward is to turn him into an animal and to talk to animals.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

So this way in which Egg is like talking to thunder here. This way in which, you know, because for Merlin, he felt like it was important for Arthur, who. He knows what's going to happen to Arthur, even though Arthur doesn't. But it was important for Arthur to, like, learn all of these things. And part of. Part of the learning is the doing.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

And so a couple things I wanted to mention. First of all, Lev Grossman's created credit as a consultant on the first episode of. Of this season of television. And Lev wrote the Bright Sword, as well as the magicians, et cetera. But Read wrote the Bright Sword, which is a great Arthurian retelling book that I read, I think, last year. Really, really good book. And so I don't know if, like, he was around to say, like, hey, I did all this Arthur homework, or all these night, you know, nightly homework or whatever. I don't know exactly what his role was on that first episode, but he is credited there. And then T.H. white wrote this story during World War II. So it's very much in the vein of Tolkien, like taking their experiences in war and looking back at fantastical Arthurian ideas of knight and warriors with a critical, almost anti war. I mean, definitely in TH White's case, anti war eye. And it satirizes traditional elements and it points out the more brutish and violent aspects of, like, chivalric traditions. And so which is something that George loves to do. I think it's interesting. A contrast I want to point out, though, is, like Wart, young Arthur is this boy who idolizes knights and knows all of the stories and all the legends. And so in that way is much more like Dunk than Egg actually is. And then that puts Egg more in, like the Merlin role where he's the more learned sort of teaching. So it's not a mapping one to one. And we've talked about that. Instead of this dynamic how great it is that, like, they're teaching each other, they're teaching each other that in the classic lone wolf and cub trope, it. It's the jaded, grumpy, you know, older figure and the younger, innocent, chipper figure sort of chipping away at him. That's not quite what's happening here at all. But yeah, Wart is called a quote born hero worshipper in TH White. And that's like much more Dunk who has the scales fall from his eyes. And we'll talk about that a bit more, but I just want to hit two more quotes and then we can roll on from this. But this, this classic Merlin advice to Arthur, which is the bravest people are the ones who don't mind looking like cowards. Which, you know, so many people have connected to can a man still be brave if he's afraid? That is the only time a man can be brave. And then Merlin has a lot of speeches about might, rather might equaling right and. And not. And a lot of people have connected those lessons to Varys. Talking about power resides where men believes it resides. No more, no less. So, like, what is the true source of power? Right? Is it knowledge? Is it money? Is it holding the sword? Is it what is it?

[Mallory Rubin]

Is it a trick? An illusion? A shadow on the wall?

[Joanna Robinson]

Exactly. Reside. So like, George is, you know, George has cited so Many inspirations, real history, all this sort of stuff like that. But he will constantly, when listing sort of like books that people should read or inspirations that he had, he will constantly reference TH White. And so I just think it's. It's worth thinking about in the context of what he's trying to say inside of this story.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. And I think his affection for these novellas and for Duncan Angus figures and, you know, so many of the readers and now viewers affection for them. The Arthurian influence is present throughout A Song of Ice and Fire. But nowhere more than here. Oh yeah, Nowhere more than here. Love that. Shout out Wart.

[Joanna Robinson]

Wart shall return in Avengers, Doomsday and also later in this podcast.

[Mallory Rubin]

We should get a countdown clock like they have for Doomsday for the once in future. Yeah. Pretty great on that point you were making about the connection to animals and that being a part of the training. I love too, thinking about. But, you know, we. We're going to talk. We've talked a lot across the season already. We're going to talk more than we have yet today about the Targaryens at this moment without their dragons.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right.

[Mallory Rubin]

And the vulnerability, the. The perilous position that. That puts them in ripe for attack and ridicule. This little moment with Egg and Thunder, it's a great way to remind us. It almost puts you in a, like, Stark direwolf, targ dragon. The depth of a bond with an animal, with a creature moment, just for a second. It's just like, I really liked that element of it. And it was very fun too, when I got such a kick out of Dexter, who lays egg on the official pod, being like, it wasn't clear to us whether the horse actor who plays Thunder, like, nodded on his own or whether that was. I was like, print the legend, man. I love this. But it is. I got such a kick out of those couple moments where Thunder really enthusiastically nods along. And just this, you know, this idea that, like, this bond is meaningful for so many reasons, but these are intelligent creatures who have an opinion on what is transpiring. I thought that this scene really did a great job of showing us that connection between rider and mount in a way that like, like Arlen taught Dunk and now Dunk is teaching Egg. And this idea of, like, you know, when Egg says this thing about Maker, about what his father thinks, like, Arlen is there too then, right? Because it's like a hedge knight's view on the world. A hedge knight's beliefs and lessons pushing royal schooling aside for a Second, this idea that, like, Arlen taught Dunk something, which we talked about a lot last week in the sweet foot scene, et cetera. You know, plenty of people would say it's not wise to think about a horse this way. But like, Arlen did and Dunk does, they'll give their last copper. And now Dunk is giving that to Egg, and he is embracing it. And it's like, we're gonna end this episode on this massive note about who Egg has been his entire life. And so how does he reconcile what he is learning, but also what he desires? Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Taking.

[Mallory Rubin]

I could be quite happy. I think I could be quite happy in a place like this, taking lessons.

[Joanna Robinson]

And lessons and deciding for yourself as you grow, who. Who is the right person to instruct you and make our being a person who thinks of horses and people as things to sort of be, like, whipped and rode and. And Aryan, thinking of them as. As things to be stabbed in the neck or snap their fingers, you know? Right? And even Egg in a previous episode, you know, calling, why do you let these royal lap dogs treat you as their betters? Right? And so he's just like. Like, I'm a Targaryen, right? These are my lap dogs, right? And I am their better. And so, like, even in that. Even as he's sticking up for Dunk in that moment, which is something that we like, he's still in this very hierarchical, like, for sure, here's. Here are the hierarchy. And at the top, yes, my fam, the Targaryens, you know? Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

And, like, there is something entrenched and true about that for Egg and his life and his experience, but also the fact that he's referring to them, like, the judgment. He doesn't love being worshiped. He's like, who are these sicko fans? Yeah. You know, so. But it reminds me of, you know, the way that we've talked about, you know, and I've loved everything you've said the last couple weeks about not only Dunk's name and how he got to the moment of saying Sir Duncan the Tall, but then the shield, right? This idea of picking pieces and strands and this tapestry that you stitch together of, like, who you are and who you choose to be is going to be influenced by all of these different people who had some sort of bearing on. On your life. So, like, you know, when Egg is telling Thunder, like, Dunk only has us in this moment. That is true. And we will feel how true that is when we see Dunk's face when Egg returns, right? But there was a moment before that was true where Dunk only had somebody else. And that doesn't cease to be a part of Dunk's life because Arlen is gone, et cetera. So I think the show is doing just a lovely job and the story does a lovely job of really like, le to the truth of that. That, like part of this is about a journey of discovery and a journey of intention. This is the path that I want to forge. You don't do that in isolation. You can't.

[Joanna Robinson]

I also think the most interesting people are the people who are just constantly looking to absorb new lessons from new people that they meet, you know, in the world, no matter your age.

[Mallory Rubin]

Right.

[Joanna Robinson]

You have things to learn. And are you curious?

[Mallory Rubin]

Are you interested? Are you open?

[Joanna Robinson]

Right, right.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. I love that. They begin their morning exercises, their training thunder immediately takes a. We opened episode one with a. We open episode two with Arlen taking a piss.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

And we open episode three with a ship. I can't wait to see what episode four brings to continue the pattern. But if you'll allow it. I have been amused by this. We talked earlier in the diarrhea Dunk episode one moment that some people were like, this is actually not for me.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right.

[Mallory Rubin]

I have been very amused by this because I enjoy scatological humor. I just think this is funny. Right.

[Joanna Robinson]

When done well, it's not usually for me. I'm not like pissed about it, but it's not usually my thing.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

In a. And let me channel eggs is Alice Three fingered Alice's song really about honor and hope.

[Joanna Robinson]

Spirit. You need a cider in your hand while you're saying whatever you're about to.

[Mallory Rubin]

Say could be the whole arm bone. Okay.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay.

[Mallory Rubin]

So we have certainly dabbled in the.

[Joanna Robinson]

The.

[Mallory Rubin]

The bathrooms before. Right. Tywin dies. Spoiler. On a privy. His horse in a very memorable moment.

[Joanna Robinson]

Does not gold.

[Mallory Rubin]

No. Does not gold. His horse does not shit gold either. Very memorable moment when he, you know, rides into the. The throne room. The battle is over. We have one. And you know, his horse has taken a. We've just watched. Etc. It's not like we've never seen this on throwing thrones. But I should also shout out, of course Shay, you know, her. Her iconic, legendary, you know, cities make me want to moment where she's just talking about how it smells like and gum and corpses and everything. It's thrones.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay.

[Mallory Rubin]

We've dealt with poop before. These moments really in A Night of the Seven Kingdoms so far feel effectively like they are rooting us in a this is not a story set in the halls of power vibe.

[Joanna Robinson]

Even though Taiwan's horse literally in the halls.

[Mallory Rubin]

He did.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, he did.

[Mallory Rubin]

And that was like, oh, oh, this is different. Whereas you could almost expect to see something like that in every scene of this show. Like, we're out in the muck. We are with our hedge knight and his squire and their horse and we're going to hunt for goose eggs. And when we do that, we're gonna have to mime to try to like explain what we need. It just, it really. I understand genuinely why the tone is maybe not for everyone, but it feels to me like a very deft way of saying this is the setting and the sensibility not only of our show, but of the main character's life and experience. He's a hedge knight. He's out among the muck and the mud.

[Joanna Robinson]

I agree with you. I don't think you're even reaching as far as Egg reached to get to his. Alice, just interpretation part.

[Mallory Rubin]

Arm bone.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, just half.

[Mallory Rubin]

Maybe just the three fingers, not the whole arm.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, maybe like knuckle deep. You know what I mean?

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh yeah, I do know what you mean, actually.

[Joanna Robinson]

But there's also like sitcom editing in these.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes, for sure.

[Joanna Robinson]

Like the cutaways. The constant cutaways. Like cutaways to like Robin Rising's bouncing eyeball. You know what I mean? Or like when he's thinking about Sir Andrew like, you know, and he's just sort of like Death Lance. You know, we cut away to these things and, and, and we mentioned the ending. The like dun, dun, dun. Like this is very, this is almost like sitcom editing. And I don't mean that in a negative. This is like 30 Rocker Brooklyn nine nine or whatever. We're just gonna like cut to like something.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

That is going to underline the joke.

[Mallory Rubin]

The episode two opening, very emblematic of that. We talked about that a lot last week with like Dunk saying these very almost like overly sincere in an effort to compel things. And then we're cutting to. Yeah, Arlen.

[Joanna Robinson]

Arlen.

[Mallory Rubin]

Horror and whole hog indeed. Let me say of all of the follow up suggest. Thank you to the bad babies for all of the follow ups about other things that we could have called Arlen because of his giant. I actually saw this one on Instagram. Can't remember where it was a meme, but shout out to whoever came up with the Long Night. Oh, spelled differently.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, very good.

[Mallory Rubin]

Incredible. I also thought the Giants Lance recommendations from the Bad Babies was really good and Was upset about missing.

[Joanna Robinson]

I still like sort of the morning, but you know, Very good. It's very. But the long night is very long night. Killed me. Yeah, it was very good.

[Mallory Rubin]

Killed me when I saw that. Oh, ma'. Am. Joe, we finally, you know, we're getting this. Go Thunder. Like this. Encouragement. Thunder's galloping. I just thought this was so winning and charming and sweet. Then we get the.

[Joanna Robinson]

You.

[Mallory Rubin]

You loved this in the trailer. This overhead shot of Egg and his avatar Aang. You know, cloak swirling, spinning moment, the tiny hands. Am I going to be able to pick the lance anxiety that we talked about last week? Great stuff.

[Joanna Robinson]

Guess what? Wart's back sooner than you thought. Egg running with the lance and the sword. Take it, sir. Don't take it. You know, how did Arthur pull the sword from the stone in the first place? He was going to fetch a sword for Sir Kay.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

You know, he was squiring his way off to grab a sword for his brother, who's not his brother, you know, the night that he's serving and he's like, here you go. I pulled it from a stone.

[Mallory Rubin]

Listen.

[Joanna Robinson]

And then Sir Kay's like, dad, look what I pulled from. From a stone. His dad's like, did you. And he's like, no word did it. He's like, well, word's the king, so, you know, tough.

[Mallory Rubin]

I love the voice that you just broke out. That was great.

[Joanna Robinson]

I disassociated. I have no memory, but I just did.

[Mallory Rubin]

It was closer to the will that be boobs voice than then. Yeah, great stuff. I love that connection. Because obviously, what Egg. And again, bears repeating. He is a prince. So he doesn't need technically to prove himself worthy of anyone, let alone a hedge knight. But he is choosing to. He wants to be worthy of Dunk, to be a worthy, ready, capable squire.

[Joanna Robinson]

As he said multiple times. I could if I want to.

[Mallory Rubin]

Right.

[Joanna Robinson]

This is what he says when Dunk asks him his question. I could if I want to. And this is like proving I can do this. I want to do it. I'm gonna do it.

[Mallory Rubin]

That was one of my favorite things in this episode was the subtle but very clear shift in Egg's relationship to that idea where the core idea is still the same. But in the first episode when we and Doug meet him, it's very. We use the word a lot. And they use it in the canon a lot. This, like insolent, kind of impotent, spunky, smart ass energy. And all of those same things are true. But like here in this moment later When Egg on the hillside asks Dunk, could I, like, so, can I stay on with you after the tourney, Can I stay on as your squire? Technically, that is the same thing as him asking in the first place, can I go with you to Ashford Meadow and be your squire? I could squire for you. But there's a different feeling behind it. There is, like, a connection and a depth of feeling that has developed between the two of them. But also then something that Egg has learned just in this limited exposure so far to Donk, to this life, to Ashravetta, to the tourney, about what feels good and right about this for him. I think I could be quite happy in a place like this. And so this idea here with Thunder in this training sequence of, like, I want to be good at this, I could if I wanted. The pride that he has when Dunk says to him later, like, you're a good worker when you put your mind to it, and he's like, you think so?

[Joanna Robinson]

Basking in the bathroom.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's like, so just. This is a different thing for him. He wants to be worthy. He wants to be worthy of pulling the sword from the stone. He wants to be a worthy squire. I love it.

[Joanna Robinson]

And something that Sarah, you know, the director mentioned, was talking about, like, you know, we'll get to the sort of the tasks that he performs, but, like, like Egg discovering the joy of hard work.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. And also, you know, the sandwich that they enjoy at the end of that, like, hunger is the most delicious sauce, right? And this just sort of, like, we've been working so hard, right? We really, really earned that. All of a sudden, like, we got goose egg, we got some, you know, bacon, essentially. We got some, I think, looked a little dry bread and too much bread. Yeah, that thing tasted delish. Because they worked for it.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes, absolutely.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think, better than anything. Any princely feast, right?

[Mallory Rubin]

Any of the. Ooh, lovely food and grapes. The exact kind of meal that. That without totally knowing how right on the mark he was, that Dunk was generally a pre.

[Joanna Robinson]

Pie or whatever it was, I think.

[Mallory Rubin]

On that front of, like, what kind of meal and banquet and feast was Dunk was Egg just accustomed to as part of the rhythm of life at Summerhall, at the Red Keep, et cetera. Similarly, like, you think of what his training must be like, right? Trained by the master at arms at a great castle. Like, rigid, strict, formal. This is what a prince learns.

[Joanna Robinson]

And when.

[Mallory Rubin]

And you could just see and feel so palpably, intangibly, in this opening sequence and throughout this entire episode, he's like this. I'm free. There's a freedom and a kind of, like, purity of connection to the experience that it clearly he is tasting for the first time in his life. Right.

[Joanna Robinson]

So it's.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's awesome to see the impact that it's having on him right away and to think about where that might lead him in the future, what it might lead him to. To crave or desire. He is interrupted here by the arrival of Sir Robin.

[Joanna Robinson]

Frosty glass of Riesling.

[Mallory Rubin]

Sweet and crisp.

[Joanna Robinson]

I hate a Riesling.

[Mallory Rubin]

I like it when paired with an appropriate course, like as part of a tasting menu. Can be great.

[Joanna Robinson]

Can really hit the middle of the verse. Miss me with any sweet wine. Miss me.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, I love. I. Oh, I love a port at the end of the meal. A dessert wine.

[Joanna Robinson]

Gross.

[Mallory Rubin]

No, like a nice cream sherry. A nice port.

[Joanna Robinson]

As you know, I live in wine country.

[Mallory Rubin]

Wonderful.

[Joanna Robinson]

So I hope it doesn't sound douchey to say I've been to a lot of wine tastings in my life and every single time they want to. They want you to end with a dessert wine. And I, like, try to be so polite. I'm like, I don't need that. Thank you so much. And they'll be like, no, ours is. Ours is different.

[Mallory Rubin]

You'll like ours when we go wine tasting together. I will take your port. And I will take it happily. Double port, baby. I love a port.

[Joanna Robinson]

Double port.

[Mallory Rubin]

I absolutely love a port. Robin is like, did you steal this horse egg? Has a whole bit of logic that he deploys. I would have just been like, no, I didn't actually.

[Joanna Robinson]

I'm the squire.

[Mallory Rubin]

I'm the squire. This is my night source. I actually didn't understand that. It was very weird for her to be. Sure, sure, sure. Yeah, it was a little clunky in an otherwise really smooth and great episode. But what it does effectively do is remind us once again of kind of the plight of a hedge knight or his squire and his rough spun, dirty cloak. The idea that people throughout the realm are always going to look at you and think, beggar, outlaw, robber. Right. That there's a certain, like, expectation, reputation. Havadar. Quick egg bend. Mistaken for a thief. And he's mistaken by a man who is barefoot, wearing an eye patch, dirty, rocking a just very middle earthy and really, like, incredible walking stick. This is Robin Riesling. Slash Riesling. Not to be confused with Poop Robin. We've got more than one Robin in.

[Joanna Robinson]

The story or any other character who might wear an eye patch. Inside of this universe.

[Mallory Rubin]

You know, I have been continuing my Battlestar Rewatch inspired by Hooked. Yeah, I had gotten through season two very quickly and then because we watched.

[Joanna Robinson]

All of season one for that episode.

[Mallory Rubin]

And I was like, I can't stop now. I gotta watch season two. That's my favorite. And then had to pause for a bit because it was a very busy time. But we've been working through season three and so I'm on spoilers. You know, Ty has his eyepatch now and it's just a lot of eyepatch reaction in my life lately. Great stuff.

[Joanna Robinson]

I love for you.

[Mallory Rubin]

I love it for me too. Thunder won't let Robin take the reins, but he lets Egg soothe him. There's that connection. Just a mini version of the moment Dunk had with Aryan's horse in episode two where he's like, I can calm you. Not everybody can. Lovely. Tells us a lot. Robin's like, what's wrong with your hair? And Egg just fires back, what's wrong with your eye? And then he pieces it together. We are aided by the comical flashback that you noted. Here is how we learned about this in the text. One Eyed Sir Robin Rice Riesling just feels like it should be. Riesling, a grizzled old knight with a salt and pepper beard lost his helm to Lord Leo's lance in the first course, yet refused to yield. So this is like the events at Ash Fraternity in the text. Three times more. They rode at each other, the wind whipping Sir Robin's hair while the shards of broken lances flew around his bare face like wooden knives. Which Dunk thought all the more wondrous when Egg told him that Sir Robin had lost his eye to a splinter from a broken lance. Not five years earlier, Leo Tyrell was too chivalrous to aim another lance at Sir Robin's unprotected head. Compare that.

[Joanna Robinson]

Hell yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Longthorne does Longthorn. But even so, Riesling's stubborn courage, or was it folly left Dunk astounded. So that last line, stubborn courage, or was it folly left Dunk astounded?

[Joanna Robinson]

Did you say that all men are fools and all men, all men are.

[Mallory Rubin]

Knights or jousts are concerned. This idea that Robin is a knight whom Dunk admires and is astonished by is a little nugget from the text that we wanted to mention. But what does Egg say about him?

[Joanna Robinson]

You're the maddest knight in the Seven Kingdoms.

[Mallory Rubin]

We are a vessel for the warrior. Robin replies, when it is madness, bid it is madness Delivered.

[Joanna Robinson]

I like this idea of, like, heroism and. And foolishness that through line of like Florian of what Dunk does here at the end of the episode, which Arian is like, you fool. Like, oh my God, why on earth have you done this?

[Mallory Rubin]

Right?

[Joanna Robinson]

And there's something inherently foolish in this idea of heroism for Florian, for Dunk, for Robin Riesling.

[Mallory Rubin]

And Poop Robin.

[Joanna Robinson]

And poop Robin.

[Mallory Rubin]

A courageous post that he took on that branch above diarrhea Dunk. Yeah, I love that because, yeah, we'll obviously talk about what Dunk at the end, but it is like so drenched in the spirit of Dunk and the story. What makes a knight a knight? It is right. It is clearly right in the fact that he is the only one who will do it. But it is reckless. It is undeniably reckless. And that is. That can all be true at once. I love that the show. This is another character where part of this pattern that we've been tracking is like expanding the intro, heightening something about a character who is put in front of us. So this idea here for Robin of this madness, that this is like a thing, that egg and that you get a zealot. Anyone would know. Yes. This fanaticism because of this tie to the warrior. There is a quote. Robin prayed.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's it. Entire castle on that grain of sand.

[Mallory Rubin]

Honestly. Impressive.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

People are like, how do you guys do two and a half hour pods on 30 minute episodes? How did we get this madness, Madness delivered from Robin Bray. You know, it's all in the same sauce.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay, can I hit you with this incredible Seven theory that I read, please? Okay, so the seven, right? Mother, Father, Smith, Maiden, Crone, Stranger, Stranger, Stranger and warrior. This is a comment that I saw and I'm so sorry, the commenter had a username that I cannot turn into English, but I want to say that I. I am reading this from a comment I saw, so I did not come up with this. Okay, so Robin saying he is a vessel for the warrior reminds me of my old theory about the book. That the Seven were present at Ashford Tourney and that Dunk meets them unknowingly. Dunk meets with other personifications of the Seven. The Smith being the most obvious both in book and show. Steely Page, My guy. And the Crone is also present in the show this episode in the form of the soothsayer who carries her coin cup in front of her like the crone with her lantern. I will definitely be keeping an eye out for more appearances of the Seven. The remaining episode and on the rewatch watch. So, Smith, Steely Pate.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Crone, Fortune teller. The actress who plays a fortune teller is also the actress who played the innkeeper in the first episode, which is wild and we can talk about a bit more when we get there. But that shout out Aziz from History of Westeros for figuring that out. The maiden, I will say tinsel in this episode has this, like, Virgin Mary, like, light blue sort of head cloth piece. Very maiden, in my opinion. Father could be Balor or Sir Arwin. Mother could be the innkeeper if. If you prefer, the warrior Sir Robin and then the stranger, you know, we can get to.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, but I like it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Isn't that really fun?

[Mallory Rubin]

I think that's great.

[Joanna Robinson]

I love this shit.

[Mallory Rubin]

I think that's.

[Joanna Robinson]

Thank you, commenter, whose name I cannot translate into some. It's like numbers and letters and I can't make it up.

[Mallory Rubin]

But Dunko Maiden.

[Joanna Robinson]

Very, very. Yes. That was very, very sexy. And so, like, let's keep tracking that. I really love it.

[Mallory Rubin]

That's a fun one to come back to at the end of the season.

[Joanna Robinson]

Hobbitsanddragonsmail.com if you have other ideas of, like. But Steely Pate, I mean, as our Smith that's.

[Mallory Rubin]

He's here with us always and, like, formalizing it.

[Joanna Robinson]

There are ways in which, if you think about it, like, if you think about. We talked about this. This idea that, like, Plummer slightly softens. Not. Not even in this episode, but, like, sort of like when Dunk's back is turned. How do people look at him? Yeah. How does Baelor sort of look at him? How does a plumber look at him? How does Steely Pate look at him? Like, I see something in you. Yeah. And this idea of like, like, little help along the way, I'll give you a deal on the armor. Like the way in which. Speaking of the Odyssey, like the way in which the gods will show up and just sort of like push things in a certain directions for a character.

[Mallory Rubin]

I have things I want to say about this that I will refrain from saying until the end.

[Joanna Robinson]

I have a note in the spoiler section if you want to talk about it. Great.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, we can hit it again there and then. Certainly we should come. This is a great observation. In theory. We should definitely track this across the season and come back to it at the end because I think the. The larger question of the will of the gods is always on our mind in a Game of Thrones story. This one is no exception. Also, it just reminds me of Little things that we've been tracking from the trailers and now through the season, like, why is the seven pointed star in this setting, et cetera. So there are other little bits of even just set deck that kind of reinforce. Okay. However, actively or subtly have this in your mind. One great stuff. Username unknown.

[Joanna Robinson]

Unintelligible.

[Mallory Rubin]

Thank you. Username unknown. So the warrior, one of those seven aspects. Let's talk about the warrior for just another second here. As you noted, on top of the thrones associated with strength in battle, we can think of our knighting vows that we've gotten to witness a few times. In the name of the warrior, I charge you to be brave.

[Joanna Robinson]

Have you watched Hamnet yet?

[Mallory Rubin]

No, actually, Adam told me that it's on demand as of last night. I think we'll finally watch it this weekend.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, I'm not here. Can we watch it together?

[Mallory Rubin]

Absolutely.

[Joanna Robinson]

Can I just, like, sit on the couch and cry with you?

[Mallory Rubin]

That would be great.

[Joanna Robinson]

Anyway, there's a line. It's in the trailer, so I don't think it's a spoiler where. Where Paul Mescal is Shakespeare goes, will you be brave?

[Mallory Rubin]

Speaking of. Of just classic text, did you see the Instagram reel going around last night of Jonathan Price giving Paul Mescal his copy of Hamlet from, like, drama School that had, like, his, like, original notes in it? That makes me think of how far.

[Joanna Robinson]

How far into Wonder man have you gotten?

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, I watched it all in one sitting. Yeah. Thought it was fantastic when Trevor's like.

[Joanna Robinson]

This tradition of, like, handing down the skull, and he's like, and I stole.

[Mallory Rubin]

It for Richard Burton. I thought Wonder man was absolutely.

[Joanna Robinson]

I did, too.

[Mallory Rubin]

Sensational. Loved it.

[Joanna Robinson]

You know, I'm like, the timing is really funky. I loved Wonder man, and I'm bummed that, like, we might always do a seasonal mailbag.

[Mallory Rubin]

Maybe in a few weeks we'll do, like, a winter mailbag.

[Joanna Robinson]

We'll hit some person, some wonder man.

[Mallory Rubin]

To fall out in, like, one place.

[Joanna Robinson]

Please don't take us.

[Mallory Rubin]

We're watching all this stuff.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Please don't take us not covering it as, like, an indication of quality, because it's really good.

[Mallory Rubin]

Wonder man was awesome.

[Joanna Robinson]

Also, like, Tom Hiddleston has a story. I think it's like Branagh, who gave Hiddleston his copy of Hamlet. This is, like, a thing that people do. Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Who would you give your copy of Hamlet to if you could.

[Joanna Robinson]

Think about that? CR has his own copy of Hamlet, isn't it?

[Mallory Rubin]

I know. CR has given out copies to people, no question. A favorite night. A favorite of many a night. Jamie, our guy Jamie Barris and sell me our guy Barrison. Etc. And this is also like an honorific that characters in the world will use to praise to really make sure that people understand what somebody achieved out in the field. So there's a great line from the Sworn Sword, the second novella, where a character who we won't specify who will be quoted elsewhere in this pod today too, says demon, demon, blackfire, blackfire rebellion always here with us. Daemon was the warrior himself that day. Like it's shorthand for making sure somebody knows that he was like a God among men out in the field.

[Joanna Robinson]

I hope people rewatch this season and enjoy who didn't know the reveal. Enjoy like Aegon being like you blackfyre bastards. Like knowing that like he's a Targaryen.

[Mallory Rubin]

Delicious. Rewatch Delicious. Reread the best There is of course a more formal tie elsewhere in the timeline between the Faith and the Warrior, specifically and Knights. The warrior Son, the Faith Militant, not active at this point in the timeline, had been disbanded by our guy, Jaehaerys, Tommen and Cersei. Hi Sparrow not here yet to bring it all back. And that went fine.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, it was totally fine.

[Mallory Rubin]

But you really, you see Robin for just like a second you're like, he would fit in.

[Joanna Robinson]

We should connect religion and the military Terry more often.

[Mallory Rubin]

I think Robin would definitely have thrived elsewhere in the canon. That much is clear. I mentioned this on Sunday, but like I got even though obviously Thoros of Mirror is Lord of Light lore. Still a little bit of a Thoros vibe just to you use the word, you know, zealot zealotry earlier like this idea of a devout man with a sword in hand who is fighting for a deity. And then you, you pair that with like just the the actual grammar and language choices here. You know, Robin's first person plural use of we like lumping himself to write directly not only into the idea of like the army of the warrior, but the warrior himself. This godly aspect. Dangerous like when you do that to justify your deeds dangerous. New variable to throw into our season long examination of this question of what makes a knight a knight. Well, Robin might say it is the fact that I am acting on behalf.

[Joanna Robinson]

Of I'm the physical embodiment of the warrior. Don't worry. Don't worry about it. It's fine.

[Mallory Rubin]

Little confident boast from Egg at the end of this encounter. Your small first squire. I serve Sir Duncan the Tall. He is large enough for the both of us. We've not heard of him.

[Joanna Robinson]

You will.

[Mallory Rubin]

First of all, just epic hype, man. Stuff from Egg here. But also, you know, we know how the episode ends. Everyone's about to know who Dunk is, just not for the reasons that he intended.

[Joanna Robinson]

We've not heard of him. Like, like, you will. There's a bunch of stories about him.

[Mallory Rubin]

You'll.

[Joanna Robinson]

You'll hear about him.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, man. Every time I see that cover and I see the. The shield, I just get emotional.

[Joanna Robinson]

I know. Here's a beautiful shield. This is. I mean, it does have this soon to be an HP original, but it's not the tie in. And so I do like that about it.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes, they. I always. I can't. It's a. It's a pet peeve of mine. As stated many times when they swap in the show art on the COVID.

[Joanna Robinson]

Actually, I have a copy that doesn't have this on it, but it's back home. And I actually got.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, you got your. Your road. Your road copy with your glitter highlighter.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, with my glitter highlight planners nobody.

[Mallory Rubin]

Needs to know about. I love it. It's great. Do you have different colors for different characters or for different.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yellow is for, like, quotes taken directly, and then green is for, like, descriptions that are, like, accurately translated. Love it.

[Mallory Rubin]

Love, love a color coding. I do it.

[Joanna Robinson]

And then those highlighters have glitter in them. As I told you, accidentally, I got glitter highlighters, and I was. I got to the checkout, I saw they had glitters, and I was, like, too embarrassed to look like, say, I didn't mean to. So this is. This is the world we live in.

[Mallory Rubin]

Great stuff. Remember gel pens when we were kids? Sure do. They had some glittery, like, sparkly that I will never forget.

[Joanna Robinson]

Did you.

[Mallory Rubin]

Do you, like, draw on the. You know, the hand drawing? Do the drawings on the back of the hand? That was a big thing in my middle school. No. Interesting. Trapper keeper. Yeah. Yeah. Carlos, do you know what a trapper keeper is? Jesus. You don't know what a trapper keeper is?

[Joanna Robinson]

No. No idea.

[Mallory Rubin]

This is our version of a couple weeks ago when Sean and Amanda in this very studio asked Jack Sanders if he knew what a beeper was, and he had no idea. But then at the end, he was like, wait, are you talking about a pager? Oh, so he did know, but, like, not really. It's just we're. We're all old. Except for you.

[Joanna Robinson]

When I was like, you don't have a Trapper keeper. Have I told you that? Like, when I was a kid, I was like, such A problem in class that they made me go sit at the isolation table. Okay. So I went to Montessori school where we all, like, sat in these, like, tables where we sat around or whatever. And I. My memory, which is spotty at best, was that I convinced my table mates to like, we all put our trapper keepers up and we pretended that we were like, on the starship Enterprise. This is like part our console or something like that. They booted me to a table just by myself in front of a fish tank because they were like Joanna's two disruptive. And then I would just stare into the fish tank and they put me back at the main table because I was too dim witted to sit in front of a fish during the class.

[Mallory Rubin]

I would not say dim witted. I would say inventive. Sure. Curious, creative.

[Joanna Robinson]

And then they.

[Mallory Rubin]

Spirit of imagination on full display.

[Joanna Robinson]

They sat me in front of a television and I made a career of it. So here you go. Here we are.

[Mallory Rubin]

There you go. Of a piece. All of the different people who influenced our lives, including those fish and help us decide who we're gonna. Morning chores. Dunk is sitting by his elm when Egg and Thunder return. And the look on his face, this vulnerability. There's like the actual. If Egg left and took my horse and took my sword. You know, we've heard this over and over again. We've talked about this idea of, like, I must risk all. Do you have the coin? No, I need to sell sweet foot to get the coin to get the armor. Right. There's the literal, like, if this happened, if Egg over Dunk, he would have nothing. He would not even be able to be a knight, as we've heard him say. Say it many times before. But obviously there is something much bigger going on here.

[Joanna Robinson]

Trusted him.

[Mallory Rubin]

Trusted this. This boy, brought him into his life and grew attached. And that moment of waking up, I love that. I don't think that Dunk really ever actually thought that Egg left, but it's like a moment that forces him to confront. I feel like the fact that he was just kind of like quietly sad versus, like, really angry felt to me like. Like confronting the vulnerability. And this idea that he's gone from only having Arin to only having Egg. Not necessarily. Like, I actually thought you did this to me.

[Joanna Robinson]

I love that interpretation.

[Mallory Rubin]

You thought he.

[Joanna Robinson]

I have a very different one in this. Here's a couple things I will say I've been asking myself. I think Peter, Peter Kaffy is like, so good in this show. Great. I think he's so good. But I have been asking myself, like, is he a really good actor or did the. They just cast the perfect guy for this? As you pointed out, like, he plays basically the same character in Bad Sisters. Right. Like pretty much Dunkin. Bad Sisters. Would you not say? Except that he. But like, other than that, very similar. Anyway. And then also like later in this episode, he's vomiting while Egg is singing. And that is taken from the fact that Peter Claffy vomited in the production's offices when he was auditioning for this show. They took that and put it in the show. So, like, I'm like, is he. Is he a great actor? You know, because he was like an athlete before. He's not like a trained actor. Or is he just the perfect guy? His performance here. Yeah, I thought was so. And at the end of the episode too, I thought were such good acting moments that I was like, no, this guy can like, I don't know how wide his range is, but like, he is really doing something here. And it's because I really recognized in this is how I in my. My less emotionally regulated days would react to being really angry about something is I would get like really quiet. Yeah. And just sort of like it's fine. You know what I mean? Like kind of like, yeah, sure, sniffy, snippy and terse. But also like, I would be angry, but I would be so hurt.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Too. And that was just like all in the brew. And I just like felt like a really recognized that in his face where he was like, this is what he was sewing instead of crying is like what it feels like to me. You know what I mean? And like, like that just like broke my heart. His. His reaction here where he was just like. And he like. And he gets kind of like blustery and mad and like tries to sort of act the way that Arlen would have acted. And then he just sort of like is able to self regulate, which is not something that I could do at that age. But like, you know, Dunk is a more emotionally evolved person than I was at like 20, whatever he's supposed to be. So, you know.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. I like the way that in the fear and the anxiety and the hurt. Hurt and the. And the. The anger that he falls back on old habits, like the comfort of routine. You know, the things he lost his squire. Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

He's got a squire again. I don't need him. I can sew myself.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. And in fact, you don't know.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Do you know? No. Then why I asked you, like, go Brush. Go Brush Thunder. That was all great. And I think the like, okay, well I want breakfast. We'll eat after you can. Okay, you can eat after you can eat my fist like these learned almost like ticks. Right? Well, that's what Arlen would say to me. But you know the cloud in the ear through line. That's not actually who Dunk is or wants to be.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right? Which is like Egg deciding he doesn't want to take makers lesson. Right. Dunks like do I want. Is every Arlen lesson worth hanging on to or should I pick and choose? Our listener Jordan wrote. I know that there are those who have been dismissing the Dunk and Egg story as, quote, just another lone wolf and and Pup, end quote, tail. But I think this episode made it clear if the previous had not that this is a tale of sworn brothers. The way Dunk teaches Egg to sew, makes sure he has a proper meal that isn't hardened salt beef and clearly finds joy in sharing the attorney with his squire. And the way that Egg is already protective of Dunk, drilling in the early morning to make sure that he and Thunder won't let him down in the joust. This is a chosen family tale. The writers have made that even clearer when they had Egg tell Arian in front of everyone that he cut his hair off so he wouldn't look like him. Egg may have a family by blood. Blood. But they make him a shame. And he wants to put as much distance between them and him as he can. Dunk had a family once, but he never knew them. And he clearly longs for a sense of belonging. The only ever had and lost with Sir Arlen. The show's about bringing these two lost boys together and letting them be for each other with their own families. Never were. And I think that's just lovely.

[Mallory Rubin]

So our favorite thing.

[Joanna Robinson]

I thought it was beautiful. From German family. I will say a lot of lone wolf and pup and cub tales are.

[Mallory Rubin]

Our found family tales.

[Joanna Robinson]

Found family tales. But I love this idea of like, like sworn brothers as like sort of a different way to frame this particular narrative.

[Mallory Rubin]

I think that the moment we get actually shortly after this when Egg says, sir, is it odd that I have black hair growing out of my stones? And Dunk's like, it's odd that you're telling me was obviously very funny. It's a comic moment. But I think it really hits that too because that's one of the like moments where you feel, okay, Egg doesn't have anybody in his life now that Aemon, who he does have a love and affection for is off to the city.

[Joanna Robinson]

You kind of.

[Mallory Rubin]

You're like, who would Egg say this to? Who would Egg talk to about just growing and changing? Dunk is instantly that brotherly figure for him.

[Joanna Robinson]

Do you think he was most concerned that there was hair or that it was dark hair when he is so blonde? Gods, he's dawnish.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, God. I just. This is just a great. A great story at a great world. He learns the whips to stitch, as you mentioned, and I love the way that they are taking these tasks, learning to sew as seriously as training with sword and lance. It's like, again, that humble, crucial work that we talked about, that clean the sword, scour the mail, patch the clothes, maintain our life and take pride in our life.

[Joanna Robinson]

Can I hit you with a little young Griff, please?

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, I. Please. Because the show never did.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Young Griff who? The show who? People watch the show who. Like, I've watched every second of Game of Thrones. Who the hell are you talking about? Anyway, Young Griff, a character in the books that never made his way in the show, but was like a potential for the throne. And this is what Varys says about him in the A Dance of Dragons epilogue. The last thing that George R.R. martin has published in this particular narrative, many years ago, quote, he has lived with the fisher folk, worked with his hands, swum in rivers and mended nets, and learned to wash his own clothes at need. He can fish and cook and bind up a wound. He knows what it's like to be hungry, to be hunted, to be afraid. And Varys says all of this as in, he would make a great candidate for the throne because he has done all of these things. Yes. He has grown up in humble circumstances, and being among the people makes him an excellent candidate for the throne.

[Mallory Rubin]

Like everything else in a Game of Thrones story, there are characters who would see that as a virtue and characters who would a peasant king see it as a demerit, which will come up time and time again. You know, we talked about this on Talk of the Thrones, but how can Egg not make us think here in this moment, certainly on the hillside, when he says, I think I could be quite happy in a place like this. How can Egg not make us think of Arya? You shared those beautiful quotes last episode, last deep dive about the Hound. We've talked about how Arya and the Hound are like one of the influential Thrones pairings for Ira Parker. This idea with Arya specifically, I love that, literally, we get a sewing scene with a Sewing needle here to really cement this connection for us.

[Joanna Robinson]

The. But the opposite, right?

[Mallory Rubin]

But the opposite side of it. Because for Aria, it's like, okay, sewing needle. No, a needle of my own. When Jon gives her a sword and she. And of course her sword's name is Needle. This. That's not me idea that Aria voices to Ned in season one, of course, recurring later saying to Nymeria, beautiful, sweet Nymeria. That's not you. This, like, that's not me idea for Aria, that is so core. The thing that I was raised to be, that tradition that the realm, that society, that norm say I must be, is not who I am and not who I want to be. And for Egg, I mean, the thing that they both have in common is, of course, they are like, high lords, right? They're. They're. They're rich, they're from key houses. But for Egg, like, this idea of, oh, I'm drawn to the sewing needle. What a perfect way to cement this for us there. Later on the hillside, we'll come back to this. And, you know, really throughout the whole episode. But, like, with Alice's song as well, you know, Alice and Dunk are really paired in this idea of, like, well, do you have to be the thing that you were born into? Do you have to be the thing that your circumstances would dictate or where like, our. Or cripples, basterds, broken things, right? And so they're. Dunk and Alice are part of Cripples, bastards, broken things tradition of proud thrones tradition. Egg is, like, on the other side of that, right? He's like, I want to lean into this, like, purer expression of the thing and shed much as Arya did, shed the finery and the expectations of, like, my name and my birthright. Will that continue to be true? I mean, that's true for Arya until the final minute that we're with her.

[Joanna Robinson]

Her.

[Mallory Rubin]

Will it continue to be true for Egg? We'll have to keep watching. But it's just a great. It's a great tie. And I love that we got the literal sewing needle to help us cement the connection there. They brush thunder together, share the load. And then Egg jumps up on his tree branch. He is whittling a spear, and he's singing at least this show's version of the Hammer and the Anvil. It's a shame that this aired the same night as the Grammys. Otherwise, perhaps we could have gotten a nomination and a live performance of either this or Alice's song.

[Joanna Robinson]

Did you sing.

[Mallory Rubin]

Did.

[Joanna Robinson]

Did you do, like, the. The Ms. Suzy had a steamboat. A steamboat Had a boat.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, sure.

[Joanna Robinson]

Of course. Yeah. Yeah. So this is like modeled after that, right?

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

The.

[Mallory Rubin]

Or the meter. I'm not a musical.

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, that idea of like.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

And then you expected Ryan.

[Mallory Rubin]

The. The implied crudity.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Did you have a favorite lyric from this?

[Joanna Robinson]

Did you? I.

[Mallory Rubin]

Boy, this was really great. It's hard to pick. I think that Baylor probably getting the giant beanie post adorned Dornish Spearman when your mind is of course ready to hear cock. That's, you know, one more reason, of course, for Makarta to hate his brother. You know, song lyrics about his cock. Great stuff. That's probably my favorite part. But the whole thing was wonderful. I loved it.

[Joanna Robinson]

It. Are you going to be thinking more about Baylor's host of Dornish Spearman or Sir Arland's host of Dornish Spearman?

[Mallory Rubin]

Why not both? It's a real why not both? In the Sworn Sword later. Again, a character who we won't name here says the Hammer and the Anvil. The old man's mustache gave a twitch. The singers leave out much and more. So for certain characters. We mentioned Baris and Sell Me last. We were talking about last episode, 100 years into the future of the canon. They're like the Hammer and the Anvil. Yeah. And then there are other characters who are gonna say, like, who prints the legend? Right. Who writes the history and who receives it. And not everybody is it Right. If you're like, these guys are incestuous aliens and they practice blood magic and they've enslaved our people, maybe you're not gonna be humming this tune with joy in your heart.

[Joanna Robinson]

I am hoping that we get a more formal version, like the real Hammer in the Anvil song. Either this season or next season or something like that. Like I you.

[Mallory Rubin]

So you think there's a moodier, more dramatic Reigns of Castamere version of this? Not like in the spirit of Baron the Maiden Fair.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right.

[Mallory Rubin]

Interesting.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's a song about the hammer and the like. I think the Hammer and the Anvil is like a. Yeah. Bronn would sing it before a battle sort of song.

[Mallory Rubin]

And this is the pub remix. I love it. Dunk is puking in the background as Egg sings this tune. And then he kind of musters the courage to come up and say, all right, it's time and eggs. Like, you can't challenge today. My, my, dude. Are you a knight of high birth and high renounce? We're nearing the egg reveal, but this is like yet another little nugget before that. Like, how does this kid know all this?

[Joanna Robinson]

I also love just like how blase is. It's like it's not the rules.

[Mallory Rubin]

Dunk's like, why have I been puking all morning? Morning. Then it's a mystery.

[Joanna Robinson]

Which made me think of Shakespeare in love. Great film in that film. I don't know. It's a mystery. Something my family always used to say all the time.

[Mallory Rubin]

I was just thinking the other like a week or two ago about rewatching that movie, which I love but I haven't seen in years.

[Joanna Robinson]

A double feature with hamnet. Let's think about it.

[Mallory Rubin]

I'm in Top Chef. Ashton, Meadow, our boys head into the market town to procure breakfast supplies. Listen, when we cover the trailer I was like, is that just a heel of dry bread? And you're like, it's going to be a sandwich. Turns out it was in fact a breakfast sandwich. Now I love a breakfast sandwich. I love a like a bacon, egg and cheese bagel. One of my go tos on the weekend especially. I love a breakfast burrito. Not for weekdays, there's only so much time. But that's a weekend go to so I'm always. I was very interested in the, the, the shared skillet for the goose egg and bacon.

[Joanna Robinson]

This is great making you love, you love to order. Yeah. You love ordering.

[Mallory Rubin]

Okay. I have been though in recent days I've been making a lot of just like fruit and yogurt granola parfaits at home. Delightful.

[Joanna Robinson]

And then no free ads. But do you have a favorite granola?

[Mallory Rubin]

I get the365 the Whole Foods granola. Typically I have been, I have fallen prey to an Instagram algorithm viral recipe. I'm using recipe incredibly loosely. It's put one thing in another. I was served and watched once and then of course this is how the algo gets you. You just are served more and more more. If you've seen this, this video recently of people putting the cookies in the yogurt and then like you put it in the fridge for 12 hours and it softens the cookies and it takes some of the moisture out and everyone's like it's cheesecake. It's not cheesecake. It doesn't taste anything like cheesecake. But I was like that looks pretty good. I got a breakfast biscuit, like a cinnamon tahini breakfast biscuit and my, my preferred full fat Greek yogurt. Put those in, did the 12 hours in the fridge, scooped it, put some fresh strawberries on it. One absolutely Wonderful. So good.

[Joanna Robinson]

Delicious.

[Mallory Rubin]

Again, like I said, it does not taste like cheesecake, but this is the.

[Joanna Robinson]

Most delightful cooking I've ever heard you do. So I'm, like, actually very impressed by this.

[Mallory Rubin]

You know, I do wish. I. I love to cook. I. I just never do it because I don't have the energy. It's not even really a time thing. It's just, like the energy, but I make a. I make a mean chili. Oh, I believe one day I'll make you a chili.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, one day. It's been a minute since I've made it, but I do love to make a chili. Anyway, the algo got me. And for the first time ever, I was grateful. Not the first time ever. I like. I like a Greek yogurt. Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

I like a thick yogurt.

[Joanna Robinson]

Me too. Do you like a skier, though? Like a siggies?

[Mallory Rubin]

I had that for the first time. Time ever because that was the one that I saw most often in these videos. And it was good. I did immediately go back to my preferred.

[Joanna Robinson]

No free ads, but siggies is all I eat.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, I did like how creamy and thick it was.

[Joanna Robinson]

Very good.

[Mallory Rubin]

I don't know how to pronounce. What's the F? A G, E. Isn't it like something like that? That's my preferred. That's my go to. Anyway. Delicious.

[Joanna Robinson]

Have you ever had a goose egg?

[Mallory Rubin]

Probably at like a LA or New York restaurant, but I've never gone and purchased one or done the squatted Sam Cassell. Big gif that Dunk is doing to try to explain what he wants. Tough moment for Tanzel to walk up and see him doing that.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh. Our listener Emma wrote in saying, not sir Dunk. Giving Tanzel the old Channing Tatum. And she's the man. Do you like cheese?

[Mallory Rubin]

This was so dumb.

[Joanna Robinson]

My pal Lindsay. My pal Lindsay texted me to say, oh, he got his I carried a watermelon, which is from Dirty Dancing moment. So there are many versions of this in many stories, but twas an awkward moment for our guy Duncan. I gotta say. Say Tanzel gave him no help. Like, no quarter here from Tanzel. Too bad. Like, be a little nicer.

[Mallory Rubin]

I did enjoy egg coming. I was like, yeah, Again, very brotherly. He's wearing his I'm a secret targ, so I'm covering my head. Slash. We like to make our viewers think of Daemon's murder cloak here on the the House of Auror. I gotta say, he's wearing it here. Practical later, just as in the text when he's Introduced to Raymond, he's of kind of, like, downcast. He doesn't want to be recognized.

[Joanna Robinson]

He.

[Mallory Rubin]

He in the show, especially given the proximity of where he and Dunk are standing at the list and Baylor, like, right across. Like, I would. He should be hiding who he is.

[Joanna Robinson]

A little bit all the time in the show. Don't get on Dunk's shoulders and make yourself even higher.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Think about a hat.

[Mallory Rubin]

You think he should just, like, wear a beanie?

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, think about a hat. Yeah. Hats historically have gone very well in House of the Dragon, so I'm sure they'll go well here. But I would get a hat.

[Mallory Rubin]

Kristen Cole's hat. You loved that thing.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's what I'm talking about.

[Mallory Rubin]

That's an incredible hat.

[Joanna Robinson]

I love that. Dexter talking about the cloak they had him wear where he was like, the cloak is, like, seven miles long, and I'm, like, constantly tripping on it. And like, indeed. When they're, like, sort of like, I want to leave, he, like, gathers it.

[Mallory Rubin]

Up to, like, a wedding dress train. Yeah, exactly. He's a riot. Man.

[Joanna Robinson]

He's so cute.

[Mallory Rubin]

Cute. I. I think it was on the. The Game of Thrones Instagram maybe just even a couple days ago. I. I don't know. Time is a blur for me right now. But the. The clip of Daniel Ings, who plays Lionel, of course, being like. I had to get, like. I'm paraphrasing. I had to get comfortable, you know, saying all these, like, really foul, filthy things in front of this literal child. But, like, you know, it's the material.

[Joanna Robinson]

And he was fine with it, is what Daniel said. He's like, I don't like cursing at all, but it's.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's my job.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, but I do. It's my job. I don't like cursing at all.

[Mallory Rubin]

He's a riot.

[Joanna Robinson]

So cute.

[Mallory Rubin]

He's just. He's the best.

[Joanna Robinson]

Protect him, please.

[Mallory Rubin]

They fry up this breakfast at camp. Unlike in the text, Dunk partakes, you know, and the text is like, he wasn't going to joust, but still. Stomach like a. Like a stone. No, he's. He's ready to chow down here the whole fish. Now this, of course, we're thinking to the pledge that Dunk makes in episode one to ensure that egg will have food in his belly. This is one of the things he says to. I don't have much, but if you prove your worth, if you prove worth your keep, you'll have clothes on your back and food in your belly. The clothes might be rough Spun and food. Salt beef and salt fish. But you won't go hungry. So right away it's like this is more than that, you know, this desire.

[Joanna Robinson]

To frankly dry looking. But.

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, I will say if they keep Simpsons Halloween special turkeys a little dry, if they keep.

[Joanna Robinson]

Keep that goose egg yolk a bit runny, then perhaps that moistening the bread softened up the bread.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's just that's. I think it's a loose yolk in the sandwich for sure.

[Joanna Robinson]

Of course it's a loose yolk in the sandwich. You don't want a hard boiled egg in your sandwich. But like I would have just. I would have done the noxious trend that I've seen in la which is hollowing out the bagel. Yeah, don't do that to a bagel.

[Mallory Rubin]

No, I don't believe in that. I don't believe in that. Actually.

[Joanna Robinson]

What they really should have done is just like less bread.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, I think there's just way too much bread.

[Joanna Robinson]

Way too much bread.

[Mallory Rubin]

I mean, I get it, they want to like carb load for the day.

[Joanna Robinson]

Head but turn that other half of the loaf into like toast or something like that. You know what I mean?

[Mallory Rubin]

Great idea, great idea.

[Joanna Robinson]

You got to mind your ratios.

[Mallory Rubin]

I really agree. I am not a fan of a dry sandwich. It's time for the day's jousting to commence. Listen, this is the house of R.

[Joanna Robinson]

Damn me.

[Mallory Rubin]

Change is the only constant in life. Some say no. You know, there are some actual constants in life and it's us talking about the Beesbury family whenever we. We can, whether or not there's really a reason to.

[Joanna Robinson]

Humphrey Beesbury is a character in this story. And unlike Robin Reisling or Lionel Baratheon or Raymond Fossilway, they have not decided to expand his.

[Mallory Rubin]

We got some dancing anyway. Some dancing in episode one.

[Joanna Robinson]

Thank God. Essentially this was.

[Mallory Rubin]

So we got this flash in the trailer of Humphrey Harding and Humphrey Beesbury, their lances clashing and exploding. Battle of the Humphreys, Humphrey. A fabled moment at this tourney. We got a flash of the. Of the shields of recognizable sigils in the trailer. We're like, oh, we're getting it. We're getting all. Each of them. They break 12 glances. We're getting it off. No, it was the exact same length in the actual episode that it was in the trailer. It was a flash.

[Joanna Robinson]

It was a skirmish of Humphreys horrible.

[Mallory Rubin]

Sir Humphrey Harding and Sir Humphrey Beesbury. A bold young knight in yellow and black stripes with three beehives on his shield splintered no Less than a dozen lances. Peace and an epic struggle the small folks soon began calling the battle of Humphrey. We love this stuff at attorney. These like they are, they're brothers in law.

[Joanna Robinson]

Brother in law versus brother in law.

[Mallory Rubin]

Imagine if your brother in law, if you were named Humphrey and your brother in law was also named Humphrey. That's just Wild George.

[Joanna Robinson]

And then you. And then you battle each other. And also you spell your name Humphrey that way.

[Mallory Rubin]

Great stuff. You shared some Humphrey Harding bio details. Last pod, last week, last episode. But let's refresh in case anybody didn't listen to that. Given that he is about to be part of a seminal moment in this story when Aryan challenges him. Let's refresh, folks, on who this guy is.

[Joanna Robinson]

Do I get to read this quote?

[Mallory Rubin]

Do it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Let's do it. The fourth pavilion was sewn together from diamond shaped pieces of cloth, alternating red and white. Dunk did not know the colors, but Egg said because he's a Targaryen. Egg said they belong to a knight from the Vale of Arryn named Humphrey Hart. He won a great melee at Maidenpool last year. Sir. And overthrew Sir Donnell of Duskendale and the Lords Arryn and Royce in the list. He's a badass.

[Mallory Rubin]

He is. He's like real five star prospect. Like all the colleges are making offers. He's got his choice. He could go anywhere. This is why Aron, much like Buffy in season three, didn't go to any school. Can't wait to talk about this.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay.

[Mallory Rubin]

He beats, if memory serves, like four. He wins 14 jousts on day one of the tourney in the text. Like he's legit. So on the one hand, when Aryan challenges him later, he's kind of like you're the no name of the bunch. But also he's like, you've shown.

[Joanna Robinson]

No, I think he's. He's going for the baddest badass. And then you're legit.

[Mallory Rubin]

And then he's gonna do something terrible. He sure does.

[Joanna Robinson]

To do. To destroy him. He splinters his leg.

[Mallory Rubin]

Just like a voice.

[Joanna Robinson]

Sh.

[Mallory Rubin]

Like a baking dish.

[Joanna Robinson]

Like a baking dish. Wild.

[Mallory Rubin]

So he's delighted when he says that.

[Joanna Robinson]

I'm like, why? Like he's not. He's not. Like he's not content to beat him.

[Mallory Rubin]

No, he has to embarrass him. He has to. Something. Yeah. He's terrible.

[Joanna Robinson]

Terrible guy.

[Mallory Rubin]

Like Chris Ryan's favorite.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

And he sanctioned all the methods. Methods.

[Joanna Robinson]

Do you know who hated a joust? Merlin. Can I read you some, please. From Th. Please hate suggest Merlin grumbled about athletics saying that nowadays people seem to think that you're an educated man if you could knock another man off a horse and that the craze for the game was the ruin of scholarship. Also a few pages later, quote, a lot of brainless unicorns swaggering about and calling themselves educated just because they can push each other off a horse with a bit of stick. Their game's mad.

[Mallory Rubin]

So yeah, listen, here's my note to Merlin. You wouldn't like the ringer. It would not be for you. But I do think that we could sway Merlin with time, not only with the poetry like, you know, let's make him watch Field of Dreams, let's talk about baseball.

[Joanna Robinson]

But you hired me to the ringer. I wouldn't say this about sports, but.

[Mallory Rubin]

Like the analytics but movement. Let's get him. Let's get some saber metrics in front of Merlin, see if we can sway him.

[Joanna Robinson]

You have not. I don't think you've converted me. I don't know if that was ever your intention in hiring me here, but you've.

[Mallory Rubin]

I don't seek to convert. I seek to support.

[Joanna Robinson]

You know, you made a Survivor watcher out of me and that's as close as I think you're going to get.

[Mallory Rubin]

I did share this nugget with Riley McAtee recently. Cuz he's like, who at the ringer is watching Survivor these days? Cuz they're, you know, Riley and Tyson are prepping for season 50 and I was like, let me tell you who has become rabid.

[Joanna Robinson]

I won my petting pool.

[Mallory Rubin]

I don't him.

[Joanna Robinson]

I told him.

[Mallory Rubin]

Did Plumber have any arrangements with you on the side? Nope. No comment. No comment. Yeah. Yeah. Just notice how the nope turned into a no comment. Egg just loves sports. Unlike Merlin. Egg loves watching sports.

[Joanna Robinson]

So does George.

[Mallory Rubin]

Guy knows Bal. I mean George, I've said this on so many pods over the years. The fact that he is invested in both the jets and the Giants is genuinely to me life's great mystery. But I do support him. Love. When every now and then you go to not a blog and you're like is there going to be a winds of winter update? And then you know, if we go back years to when I'll, I'll mention Sam Darnold because he's playing in the super bowl this coming weekend. Shocking stuff. When the jets drafted him, it's like crunching Darnold tape for the Jets. Crunching Daniel Jones Giants tape back in the day. And just blogging about it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Let him live.

[Mallory Rubin]

Amazing George, unlike Merlin, would appreciate the ringer.

[Joanna Robinson]

Absolutely.

[Mallory Rubin]

The bro next to Dunk. They're having a blast watching the bro next to Dunk offers him his wineskin dung takes a sip and he spits this out. The only thing in Thrones history that has been spit out of a mouth faster. Well, maybe not the only thing real like Lock giving a desperately thirsty Jamie horse piss to drink energy from. From Dunk here. What did he spit out? What was this? Just a homebrew. Little homebrew.

[Joanna Robinson]

Not just like brain alcohol.

[Mallory Rubin]

Not the Fosso cider.

[Joanna Robinson]

Like toilet wine.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Here's an email from our listener, Tristan Tanzel. Too tall. Not too tall for me. Dunk. Too tall to stand in front. This is what Tristan wrote and I really related to this. I find it really interesting that whenever Duncan Dagger watching the Attorney, they're always the very front by the railing. You think someone behind Dunk would have yelled at him by now because they can't see behind him. As someone who has been told many times in a theater, can you slouch down? And I do. It's part of, like, a problem with my posture, I think, is like, there are people who are. Were like, excuse me. Actually, I went to go see no other.

[Mallory Rubin]

Even in a stadium, seating depends on.

[Joanna Robinson]

How steep the rise is. I was at the AMC Burbank. Not that one, but the other one. There are three, actually, I went to the wrong one. And they're like, you have to go across the street.

[Mallory Rubin]

You know, there's even another one, but.

[Joanna Robinson]

Like, within walking distance. Oh, God. Okay. Anyway, I was at one of them, and I was going to see no other choice, the Park Gentlemen Film. And. And one month. Must be able to read the subtitles. And there was a man sitting in front of me. There was barely any rise in this thing. And there was a man sitting in front. And it was like the first time in my life that I had to be like this the whole movie. And the theater was full because God bless la, they love to go to the theater.

[Mallory Rubin]

That's what I was gonna ask is could he not have just moved or could I move?

[Joanna Robinson]

I should have moved, but, like, I couldn't. There was nowhere to go.

[Mallory Rubin]

You were in your seat comfortable.

[Joanna Robinson]

He was in his seat comfortable. Well, he's a tall man. He's allowed to be tall, but he was very tall. And I could not see over him.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, you could not see over over him? I see. Yes. I. Oh, yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

No, I was the issue. Or he was the issue. Anyway, Point being, I could not read the subtitles. And many times people have been behind me being like, excuse me, tall woman, can you slouch? And I have slept all slouched all through Hamilton because I'm like, this lady behind me paid really good money for this ticket. I feel bad.

[Mallory Rubin]

The theater.

[Joanna Robinson]

The theater.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

I.

[Mallory Rubin]

Dunk is very tall on his own. Dunk with Egg on Egg on his shoulders. Exceedingly tall. I do think that constantly in the show, people should be shouting at them to.

[Joanna Robinson]

Down in front.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, down in front. Constantly. That should be happening all the time. We should note, like, in the text, Raymond does come up to Dunk and say, why aren't you watching in the viewing gallery? Like, all nights are welcome there. And it's about how Dunk is more comfortable among the commoners amongst. And also, he could be further back.

[Joanna Robinson]

He could be further back also, Eggs. Like, I'm not going there. Let me tell you what.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, purple eyes. Purple eyes. Dunk, come on. This is to stretch. Another very brotherly bit here where they're poking fun at each other. Hearts all beef. Lovely food and grapes. Disgusting ale. It's just disgusting. Disgusting formation of. Of something so charming that is about to be imperiled by Dunk's choice and Egg's big reveal. The morning jousts have commenced. There's a little bit of a break for Dunk and Egg. They head to this hillside and. And mentioned this quote a few times.

[Joanna Robinson]

Heartbreak feels good in a place.

[Mallory Rubin]

Carlos, play that clip. Incredible. Carlos, let's hear what. What Egg says to Dunk in this moment and what Dunk says back.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think I could be quite happy.

[Mallory Rubin]

In a place like this. You're in a place.

[Joanna Robinson]

Place like this.

[Mallory Rubin]

I meant for a while. Ah, the gentle yearning of. I think I could be quite happy in a place like this. Was one of my favorite moments of the season so far. Again, just so Arya coded, that positioning of where we get this moment on the brink of the reveal at the end of the episode, Egg's identity becoming known not only to Dunk, but to everybody. Um, Dunk is a character who dreams of, aspires to something more while still holding on to, like, the sanctity of life as a hedge knight. You know, he's like, I want to end up above the salt. Says to Egg in episode two, maybe the dragon house would take me on. And then Egg who? Egg, Egg, Egg who? That is his life, right? Craves something simpler. He's like, no pavilion.

[Joanna Robinson]

The lock.

[Mallory Rubin]

Ours alone. Actually, this is lovely. And I find That I like it, and I find that, like, it fits me well. Right. And I don't want to leave it behind. We will, of course, learn more in subsequent episodes about what has motivated Egg to, like, do this thing at all in the first place. But very clearly, just living the life of a Targaryen prince is not for him. There is something about this other way that is appealing to him. When you hear him say the things in this episode that he does about his father, either what he says to Thunder or what he'll say to Dunk later. When Dunk's like, did you know your father? He's like, no, not really. Like, of course he's still maintaining cover there. But also, it feels like there's a deeper truth of, like, do I really know my father? Like, do I really know who he is? Is there a closeness there?

[Joanna Robinson]

And then you see what Brother does to anyone.

[Mallory Rubin]

You know, I don't think you can ever really know another person. That's one of my beliefs.

[Joanna Robinson]

Don't you think you know me?

[Mallory Rubin]

I think that there is joy and beauty and meaning in trying to know somebody and in getting to know them better than other people do. But I don't think you can ever fully, truly know my fear. One of my, like, motivating, driving anxieties in life ever present is like, can you ever really know fully what's going on in someone else's head?

[Joanna Robinson]

I think you're a bit unknowable, but I don't think I'm as mystery, as mysterious.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, my God.

[Joanna Robinson]

What? Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

No way. Definitely the opposite.

[Joanna Robinson]

Fascinating. You have, like.

[Mallory Rubin]

I'm a mystery now.

[Joanna Robinson]

You have depths to you. So do you. Okay.

[Mallory Rubin]

So do you. I've received a lot of text messages from my husband who is listening to the Rewatchables Wild Thing pod about things I've said on that pod. So maybe I'm in a. I've really put a lot out there about my life headspace on this current day.

[Joanna Robinson]

I'm working up to pressing play on that one. I feel like it's going to be heretofore undreamt of levels of depravity from you and Van.

[Mallory Rubin]

Daydreaming about the future for Meg here. We hear he goes into some specifics. Joe, right? He's like, well, lead a great. I'll lead a great campaign. I'll come back a war here. I'll get a parcel of land. Horses, oats, peas, cows, no lambs. That. That cart ride really scarred him.

[Joanna Robinson]

He's like, I don't want to Talk about it.

[Mallory Rubin]

Are you ready to hand to the second most beautiful woman Daughter?

[Joanna Robinson]

Because you get the first.

[Mallory Rubin]

A shared future. Dreaming of a shared future.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, my God. Are you ready for our guy Wart to return?

[Mallory Rubin]

Absolutely.

[Joanna Robinson]

Here's Wart dreaming of his future.

[Mallory Rubin]

Are lambs involved?

[Joanna Robinson]

I should have a splendid suit of armor and dozens of spears and a black horse standing 18 hands. And I should have called myself the Black Knight. And I should have hoved at a well or a ford or something and made all true knights that came that way to joust with me for the honor of their ladies. And I should have spared them all after I had given them a great fall. And I should live out of doors all the year round in a pavilion and never do anything but joust and go on quests and bear away the prize at tournaments. And I should not ever tell anybody my name. And I just. I don't know. These boys dreaming of their future. The one that Egg has in mind is. Is, you know, not as sort of like, tied up in, like, grand heroics, though. He talks about campaigning for his lord and stuff like that. But there's just like, a real link there to, like, this, like, dreaming of the future of, like, who shall I be when I'm grown?

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes, absolutely. I think back to, like, episode two as well, when we, you know, heard Egg ask Dunk, like, you think I could be a knight? You know, which is now in the full context of who Egg is actually shocking thing for him to have to voice because, frankly, like, you're a prince, so you can get whatever you want. Yeah, right. But that's not what he means when he's asking. It's like, do I have the stuff?

[Joanna Robinson]

You might as well, like, own all of the crabs in Duskendale. You can just Nepo baby your way too many.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, man, great stuff. I loved to this on the.

[Joanna Robinson]

The.

[Mallory Rubin]

The. The hand of the second most beautiful daughter, because, of course, you'll have the first. Not only this cementing of the fact that this fantasy that Egg has about the future is already one that he is envisioning. Dunk. Dunk is inextricable, right, this shared future, but also this idea that, like, on the one hand, there is a kind of surprising humbleness of behind what Egg says there, given that he is a princeling, but also one that makes complete sense when you think. Think fourth son of the fourth son. Like, he's not used to being first. Yeah, he's a Targaryen prince. He's a prince of the blood, but he's like way down, not at the top of the line as we will talk about more, more later. So that's, that's present here too. This was that moment where we get where. Where Dunk says that egg is a good worker. And egg just seems so, so, so. Not just pleased, but proud. And then egg asks if he can stay on after the tourney. And Dunk's like, I'm barely going to be a knight if I lose. But if you win.

[Joanna Robinson]

And then he's definitely about to say yes, if I win when Plumber shows up.

[Mallory Rubin]

No question. Plumber is here.

[Joanna Robinson]

Knows that.

[Mallory Rubin]

No question, no question. Plumber is here. Ebony ma, my guy, Ebony ma.

[Joanna Robinson]

Tom von Lawler is so funny.

[Mallory Rubin]

He's amazing.

[Joanna Robinson]

Plumber is a really, really great character.

[Mallory Rubin]

Plumber and his flem have really consistently.

[Joanna Robinson]

Stolen again another comedy cut from the like hawking to the spitting in the like cut away.

[Mallory Rubin]

You know what I mean? Absolutely. He has a proposition, proposition for Dunk. You know, little stroll by the stream. Just like to talk some match fixing with you. And you know, before he gets into any of the specifics with Dunk, he just wants him to know one thing. I believe we are both men of honor. Any man who must say I am king is no true king. You never want to have to open with I'm honorable. Let me explain to you that I am honorable. Always a bit of a red flag, he tells Don. You know, not sure if you can tell, but Lord Ashford, he's slightly overspent. It's overextended. It's overextended. He didn't budget effectively.

[Joanna Robinson]

Not what he thought the quince would be. Gwen.

[Mallory Rubin]

He's a striver. And in the efforts to strive, he has taxed himself financially. And plumber is working to throw one of Lord Ashford's son's matches. Andro. Andro A N D R O W. Great stuff. He would like Dunk to be the one to beat Andrew in the books. Both of the. The Ashford sons have. They're out of the tourney. They've lost, but like acquitted themselves well. And there's, there's pride there. Rest assured. Here are some of the things Plumber says. I mean no disrespect. I ask only what you already intend right to win. He says later. I. Dunk says, I do not want a victory I have not earned. And Plumber says, have you not earned it? And then he will end with, mind your pride, sir.

[Joanna Robinson]

He also says, I mean, not to rob you, but to reward you.

[Mallory Rubin]

I'm not trying to rob you.

[Joanna Robinson]

I'm trying to help you. Very Gandalf. I thought in that moment.

[Mallory Rubin]

That's a good Gandalf impression.

[Joanna Robinson]

Thank you.

[Mallory Rubin]

There's a. There's a gravelly depth there that really is. It's perfect. I said this on. On Sunday. You did not feel this way about it. I am, I. We won't linger on this because we don't want to spoil anything about, like, future events later in the canon. I'm like, still a little puzzled by this because I think the fact that a match fixing is part of a future, not later this season, but just future events in the canon feels like scoop into me a little bit.

[Joanna Robinson]

I'm not bothered by it only because I do think there's a character reason for it to be here.

[Mallory Rubin]

That all worked for me really well.

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, I think it's not just that Duncan is. Has trepidation and honor around this, but that he's tempted by it as well, that he's still considering it when he talks to Raymond. And I think that, you know, temptation for Dunk is a constant theme throughout these stories. And so I think that, like, the pull. Yeah, his. I think it paints such a better, more complicated character that he's not just like, I would never. Sir, for sure, you know, that he's just sort of like, should I. I'm not sure what the right thing to do is here, but there's moral clarity for him. Him in certain moments when Tenzel's getting her finger snapped. There's moral clarity for him there, but he's not always clear on what the right thing to do is. He doesn't trust his instincts. In this post Sir Arlen world, he's just like. He's like me when I try to buy a car. And I'm just sort of like, I don't want to up. I don't want to up. I'm too dumb to do this, you know? And so, like, this is. This is his. Like, should I do this? And also, like, I'm learning so much about what knights actually do and what chivalry actually is and what honor actually is. And so I've had the skills fall from my. My eyes again and again. So is this just the way the world works and I should just like, right, get on board, right? Is that what should happen and rebel against that? I hear what you're saying about it. Sort of like scooping a plot line from a later season, but I think then it will just sort of resonate more when it comes back, you know, that.

[Mallory Rubin]

That is the other side of it for sure. And I think completely valid to like prep viewers for the fact that this is a thing that happens in the world now. Like of course, early Thrones days. You know, we're. We're watching Littlefinger and betting on the Catspaw Blade, you know, as part of like a, you know, gambling on joust is one thing, but the idea of like what is happening behind the scenes to influence an outcome that's obviously like more centered here in this conversation with Plummer than what we had seen on the screen before. I think to your point about the character, beats for Dunk. I thought it was a brilliant addition to the. The season one of this show for. For all of those reasons. I really agree. I think like, it's such a smart choice to have Plummer ask Dunk to win instead of asking him to lose. You ask him to lose. Well, like he's. He'd get some coin in it, but he's worked to get to this. It's much more complicated test of the thing that Dunk is seeking and the reasons behind it. Like, what is he trying to prove to himself and to other people? Why? What does virtue mean to him? Why? I think to the point about. One of my favorite things about it was like to that point continuing across the season and this is a really big way but it's been present in every episode to like chip away at the idealized view of these people who Dunk his deified.

[Joanna Robinson]

She's just about to see what Aryan does and is so like, I can't believe a prince would do that.

[Mallory Rubin]

Sir Manfred and all the lords don't remember who Sir Arlen is. Right.

[Joanna Robinson]

And both Egg and Raymond are like, what do you mean? Right? You can't believe that he would do this. Like, of course he would do this. Like, this is exactly who he is and who the royals can be and who knights can be actually. So like.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

And I love that they're surrounded constantly by, you know, the, the making of the night. Is that what they call the. The behind the scenes sort of features that they've been putting out or a night in the making maybe something like that. Anyway, talking about making the tourney field.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right. Yeah, yeah. And all the braziers and all the like.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Propane that they use and stuff like that they showed and we've already remarked upon them. But like these knight statues, these statues of knights that Peter Claffy was like, reminds me of Wizard's chest in Harry Potter. But like. But it matters that these like, this ideal of a knight is enshrined in stone. Because that's how it is in Dunk's head. This is what a knight is. It's this thing frozen in amber.

[Mallory Rubin]

You're chipping away, you know, and it's.

[Joanna Robinson]

Just sort of like. Like crumbling right in front of him.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, I. I really love that aspect of this. This scene and this opportunity slash test. I also really like that.

[Joanna Robinson]

We.

[Mallory Rubin]

And Dunk must of course, like, note that Plumber is asking Dunk because he thinks he can. Like, because Dunk is a susceptible target, because he's desperate, because he stood in Plumber's office and begged to enter the list because.

[Joanna Robinson]

But also could beat Sir Andrew.

[Mallory Rubin]

He could, but he went, do you.

[Joanna Robinson]

Ride your horse into battle? Or does he ride you? Does he ride you?

[Mallory Rubin]

When the kingsguard come out to keep the crowd at bay, a rock got through to Arian. Said, as we'll talk about. But I was like, man, wish those helms were not on. Was hoping to see my guy's handsome face again. Sad. Anyway, you know, the. The idea that he has no coin, though, like, that's part of their exchange, right? He's like Plumber explains to Duncan the first episode. You know how this works. Like, you know what you're going to lose, what you're going to have to ransom. And I. I won't lose. Okay. Like, he knows what Dunk's circumstances Balor and what Balor. The grace that he gave to Dunk in the second episode. Such a contrast. And of course, obviously, now that we know who Egg is, like Egg's embrace of Dunk, Such a contrast to the truth, the unvarnished truth that Dunk is seeing in so many other figures. Now, Plummer is not a fancy lord or a fancy knight, but he's the steward and master of games who is representing this great house. Not a great house. Ashlord Ashford would say it's a great house. This house. And this. This event. And like all of it chips away at Dunk's ideal. I. I really liked that mind your pride note, because this is the passage we've shared many times. Like a hedge knight must hold tight to his pride is one of the key lessons from Arlen that Dunk has carried with him and thinks about. So this idea of, like, the conflict between the thing that the person in front of him right now who's presenting him with an opportunity in a certain light.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right Upper memory ability. At what cost?

[Mallory Rubin]

At what cost? The cost to your soul, the cost to your sense of honor. You fill your coin purse. Interesting moment for Dunk. Aryan bright flame is here. He's back. The horn sounds, the jousting is set to resume. And the bright prince is here.

[Joanna Robinson]

This is, this is actually why I have my copy of A Night of the Seven Kingdoms here. I. I realize I've. I've held up some book stuff. This is a video podcast sometimes, so you have to be, why watching this in order to see this. But I don't know if we can like, zoom in or maybe we'll just like insert this.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

But before, you know, Aryan barely sort of like acknowledges Balor.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes. After a pause to dip his lance to Prince Baylor. A pause so brief that it was almost perfunctory. It's the description in the text. So good.

[Joanna Robinson]

And then, you know, and then he goes up to Valar.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

And I just want to say that, like, there's been so much taken directly out of the book, but this illustration here, I don't know if folks can see it is like exactly how Valar looks outside of his tent. It's like they just like copied it directly, which is really fun.

[Mallory Rubin]

Great.

[Joanna Robinson]

Like, not every single. There's another one that I wanted to show just so like people can see like what the relative sizes are supposed to be. This is Dunk and Egg and Tanzel, he's just sort of of like, she's Tanzel too tall and dunk is like 2ft taller than she is. And then Egg is like a little footnote in this drawing here. But like, this is. Yeah, Gary Gianni's illustration. There's the graphic novel. But then this is just like the illustrated edition of, you know. Anyway. There are many moments that seem like taken directly out of the graphic novel, but this is one that I'm just sort of like, oh, they just copied this. And this is in the trailer even where we were. Like, I've seen this image before of.

[Mallory Rubin]

Valar, which is interesting because as we've noted, but now can talk about more fully because we have this moment, Aryan is rendered differently.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yes.

[Mallory Rubin]

We do get this sick dragon helm. So the dragon iconography is present there. But do you want to read this passage, this description of him at this stretch in the. In the tourney and dragon forward visual.

[Joanna Robinson]

Imagery, Aryan, fashion influencer that he is.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Bore a three headed dragon on his shield, but it was rendered in colors much more vivid than Vault Lars. One head was orange, one yellow, one red. And the flames they breathed had the sheen of gold leaf. His surcoat was SW swirl of smoke. And fire woven together. And his blackened helm was surmounted by a crest of red enamel flame. So they got like the tip of the helm very well.

[Mallory Rubin]

The helm is awesome.

[Joanna Robinson]

What I love in the behind the scenes is they were talking about how they like tried it with various dragon faces. And they're like, actually the scariest thing is a human face. So they did a cast, actually a Fin Bennett's face and use that to like model the like skull. Lord of Bones almost esque sort of like front.

[Mallory Rubin]

He has the sharp cheekbones and the jawline.

[Joanna Robinson]

But then, yeah, like the red enamel tips crest is there for sure.

[Mallory Rubin]

Great shit. Here he rides toward the champion's tent, toward Valar. And the image that Joe just showed briefly toys with him. Cousin, not to worry. I won't embarrass you today. Now, again, Aryan Brightflame is the king's grand grandson, Maekar's second eldest son. We'll talk more about the family tree later when we go through where egg sits in the line of succession at this moment in time. This is an insane thing. Challenging him actively would be insane. But even fucking with him, like I could embarrass you if I wanted to, is nuts.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's very like Aemon Targaryen embarrassing his brother small council by speaking high Valyrian.

[Mallory Rubin]

But that at least is in private.

[Joanna Robinson]

Ish.

[Mallory Rubin]

I mean, there are a lot of people in the in that small council is out in public in plain view of the masses. Like, there's this fascinating contradiction at play with Aryan across this episode where he's really torn between like, I am embarrassed by my family and the state that our proud dynasty finds itself in. And I want to boost the Targ Q score by reminding everybody of how fierce and formidable we are. I am. But he's doing that by embarrassing them and opening them up to inciting rebellion and fermenting dissent.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Yes, certainly with Wendy's cousin.

[Mallory Rubin]

Mocking his cousin's second in line to the throne right now is not good for the family.

[Joanna Robinson]

Mocking his cousin who has dark hair and he's like, you don't have to take this Targaryen seriously. Take me seriously. I got the platinum hair. I'm the dragon.

[Mallory Rubin]

Exactly.

[Joanna Robinson]

So when you. When you think about Targaryens and you think about my uncle sitting up there fidgeting with his rings with his dark Dornish hair and don't take him seriously. When you think about next in line here, this guy sitting like an illustration outside of his patch of blonde. I'm the Targaryen here. You know, like that makes sense to me. He's not thinking big picture.

[Mallory Rubin]

No, exactly.

[Joanna Robinson]

And Baelor is like, Jesus fucking Christ, this kid.

[Mallory Rubin]

This is like one of the reasons that it is. I love the hair thing. We obviously talked about for Baelor, specifically how for some people that's like a welcoming, more relatable aspect of him as a royal figure. But for others, they're like, why should I take you seriously as closer to a God than a man? The fact that Arian inside of the family. Family aligns with that thinking in that view. Like holding Balor and Valar and others with that. Without the. The signature, shiny silver locks as well. Diminishment. A great little touch. You know, we. We mid the Viserys comp. There are plenty of maniacal targs and maniacal non targs in Thrones history that you could compare Aryan to. Viserys from season one of Game of Thrones. One of the most delicious comps, unquestionably aided, of course, as we've mentioned, by the fact that Harry Lloyd is the narrator of the audiobook. So you get to actually hear him reading Arryon's quotes and specifically then getting to hear Viserys, who so memorably in season one of Thrones referred to himself as the dragon. You don't want to wake the dragon, et cetera. Sadie, it's time you face the dragon line. Really, really, really fun. Part of listening to. To the audiobook. Dany, what'd she say? Viserys. He was no dragon. Fire cannot kill a dragon, Jorah. Viserys is less than the shadow of a snake. Well, what would they say about Aryan? I think we know. Eggshots kill him. As the joust begins. And Dunk is like, what?

[Joanna Robinson]

He's right there.

[Mallory Rubin]

Doesn't know at first who Egg is saying this about now. Arian is a monster. We are about to see that very clearly in multiple ways. In this episode, it's clear why Egg hates him. We will of course hear more about their relationship. I still think it is chilling to hear Egg say kill him about his own brother. Not sure if you know this. No man is as a curse as.

[Joanna Robinson]

The kinslayer, but if Humphrey Harding does it, did he really. Did he really kinslay slay?

[Mallory Rubin]

It doesn't say outsourcing.

[Joanna Robinson]

No man is this as cursed as someone who roots for kins.

[Mallory Rubin]

Great, great point.

[Joanna Robinson]

As, as Egg's legal representative, I have to say innocent of all charges in.

[Mallory Rubin]

The eyes of this podcast and the eyes of gods and. And men. Second charge. What happens here?

[Joanna Robinson]

What Does Aryan do goes right for the neck.

[Mallory Rubin]

Why did CR think this was okay?

[Joanna Robinson]

A question for his therapist.

[Mallory Rubin]

I think this is terrible. You explained in prior pods terrible things happen at tourneys. But there is a code.

[Joanna Robinson]

There's a code. There's ways in which we get a flash of Sir Andrew in this episode sort of charging down a Stokeworth kind of before he's ready shout out Lalas. But those are still within the boundary bounds of of what we do here. Or we talked about how like Leo Longthorne like went well out of his way so as not to trample someone else inside of the of the five on five tourney joust that we saw. And so the fact that Aryan like even Dunk can tell, yeah, the lance is dipped too low. He's going straight for the neck.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Is hideous.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes. And things happen in tourneys that then people can debate well what was the intention? Or this is an accident.

[Joanna Robinson]

There's no question here.

[Mallory Rubin]

Right. This is not a mishap as Egg Will Will Will say to Dunk. You know, mentioned this on on Sunday. But like Loras Tyrell and the tourney and and the hands tourney and thrones riding out with a mare who's in heat to like spark a certain reaction from the mountain's horse. Obviously a terrible thing happens to a horse in that sequence as well because the mountain is a monster. Tough one. There is a violation like a befoulment of the exercise from Aron here. That is to your point. So naked. Right. He's not trying to hide it. That's part of the point. To remind everybody that he can do what he wants because he is the dragon. He looks pleased. His punch.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

When Humph goes down, his horse is screaming. He's screaming. But then the small folks start to riot and throw rocks at his head. And this is very nostalgic for Game of Thrones viewers in a number of different ways. How can we not think of season two cow pie to Joff's face legendary moment. But even more recently, the riot in in House of the Dragon and both of those examples, starving cities, war time blockades. What is getting through? What do people need? Why are they blaming the royals? We've talked a lot about the Blackfire Rebellion 13 years ago. This is relatively speaking peace time in Westeros. Relatively speaking.

[Joanna Robinson]

But Targaryens in their flop era.

[Mallory Rubin]

But Targaryens in their flop era. It's wild stuff like the Kingsguard should not have to ride out to protect the prince from the throngs. But Arion incited this on purpose. All right, so let's. Let's talk about. Let's talk about the no dragons thing. We've talked about this all season.

[Joanna Robinson]

Because if they threw a rock at Aryan and he could jump on his.

[Mallory Rubin]

Dragon and burn them all alive. Burn them all. Burn them all. They just wouldn't do that. It's just not a thing that they would do. But they can hear because he doesn't have a drag.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's why Raymond feels like he can say what he says after his three false ciders. As someone on. Did you see that thing on Twitter.

[Mallory Rubin]

Using his cups?

[Joanna Robinson]

Someone posted me. I promise I won't get political me after three fossil ciders. He's like, they're incestuous aliens.

[Mallory Rubin]

That's great stuff.

[Joanna Robinson]

But, yeah, I mean, everyone feels freer, but not entirely free. I mean, but this is the problem. Baylor's like, we're on a. A tour of kindness and comfort, and we're just.

[Mallory Rubin]

This is a diplomatic mission.

[Joanna Robinson]

We're shaking hands and we're kissing babies and we're daddy, like, really, really cool. Here in the reach. We're cool reviving with people. I. They said that thing about him a sheep. We all laughed. It was funny. Everything. We're cool. It's fine. And then Aryan shows up and does this shit and everything's not okay. And we have to bring the stormtroopers out and the riot police have to show up. You know, the Ashford men are, like, running towards the tourney fields as Duncan Egg are walking away.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, Aryan is cruel, but also a moron. Like, this is an incredibly stupid thing to do. I think that when the rock hits him in the head, the cut to Balor and the look on his face and that undeniable trail truth. Okay, they wouldn't do this. If we have dragons, we're in this vulnerable position. But also this question that we track across thrones, something we ask now about the Targaryens. But it's not the only time we've asked that about a family. Like, what does it mean if you're no longer a house to be feared? Right? This is something that Tywin voices very memorably to Jamie in season one. If another house can seize one of our own and hold him captive with impunity, we are no longer a house to be feared. Then, as is often the case with Tywin, this becomes a speech about legacy. Right? Your mother's dead. Before long, I'll be dead. And you and your brother and your sister and all of her children, all of us dead, all of us rotting underground. It's the family name that lives on. It's all that lives on. Not your personal glory, not your honor, but family. Do you understand? Aryan needed that speech and this is true.

[Joanna Robinson]

I mean, when Tywin dies, the Lannister position is greatly undermined.

[Mallory Rubin]

Right? Right. It's like you don't want to find out what's hap. What happens when you're no longer a house to be feared. And Aryan made sure that they started to find out. We, we, you know, we hear Viserys and Hot D say to Rhaenyra, like, everyone says Targaryens are closer to gods than men, but they say that because of our dragons. Without them, we're just like everyone else. So that's really present here when we get to Raymond's treasonous speech to Dunk. The Blackfyre rebellion is also clearly part of what is fueling that, as is the dance. There's other stuff at play.

[Joanna Robinson]

There's some other stuff to talk about.

[Mallory Rubin]

That for sure, that is. That is fueling what he says there. But the dragon thing is just undeniable right here. And then the reaction from the crowd is part of what will fuel Arian's response to the puppet show. This all connected really deliciously across this episode.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's interesting because, like, I feel like, you know, Joffrey's a great comp. Because, yeah, there are ways in which Joffrey and Aryan are very different. Aryan's reaction to what Dunk does is this, like, curiosity and, And Fan Bennett talks about that in the behind the scenes stuff like that, which is, you know, Joffrey would have stamped his foot and thrown a temper tantrum. He also wouldn't have been the one breaking the fingers himself in the first place. You know what I mean? That's not. That's not his way. Unless he's firing.

[Mallory Rubin]

I was going to say, unless he's.

[Joanna Robinson]

Got a cross across and someone's tied up. Literally. But I don't think he could have.

[Mallory Rubin]

Like, held in the bed chamber.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think Tenzel could have beat the out of Joffrey is what I.

[Mallory Rubin]

No question. Yes, you're right. He's much more inclined to be like, I'll give him a red smile when he's not going to be anywhere in the position to do that. Yeah, but.

[Joanna Robinson]

But he would have stamped his foot and said, I'm the king. Like, how dare you? You know what I mean? And like, huh, you know, so. But there are ways in which they're the same. In Terms of. Of this, like, blinkered privilege of just sort of like, I'm gonna do this thing and everyone's gonna be so impressed with me, the leader. They are going to bow down and be so excited that the Targaryens are here to kill horses. You know, like, it's just. It's. It's madness. But it's. It's blinkered privilege, too. So also, so the way that Egg reacts here, like, Egg is devastated because he's a horse girl. And also, like, he knows firsthand Aryan's cruelty, which we will learn a bit more about. But they just sort of like, they. They run away. He's. He's so upset. Here comes my guy Wart again. This is like in. In a sword in the stone. Wart is so excited by the idea of attorney that he, like Merlin makes two knights fight so that Wart can, like, sort of experience what this is. And it's violent and it's horrible and it's not at all what he likes. And so he says. Oh, dear. Exclaimed the Wart, feeling ashamed that his blood. Feeling ashamed that his bloodthirstiness had been responsible for making these two nights joust before him. Do you think they will kill each other? So, like, this idea of just sort of like, we've seen a go, like, yeah, the tourney rules. This is cheering for fun. I love this. Like, I'm having the best time. Like, the. The way that Dexter just said, like, yeah, so many different times in so many different scenarios. To be like, this is horrifying. Now, obviously that is very specifically pegged to Aryan, but it's also like a reality check moment for him, for sure. You know, Dunk is constantly bumping up against his reality checks. And this is a real, like, yeah, Egg seeing the world for what it is a bit more clearly than he did that morning, you know? Yeah. When he's like, heartbreak feels good in a place like this.

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, it's interesting, too, given, like, his. His love for the puppet shows, you know, what is theater and then what horror potentially lurks on the stage around the field. This is where he voices the Naran meant to do it. And Dunk is like, he knows it. He knows it's true, but he can't accept it. The passage in the book is. It had looked that way to him as well, but it was hard to accept that any knight could be so unchivalrous, least of all one who was blood of the dragon, which Dunk will, in essence, voice to Raymond later. It's time to reflect because it's been. It's been a lot since. Take in jousting's done for the day. Party tent time. Sip and cider reflecting and listening to a shirtless and crowned Lionel and company sing about dear sweet Alice. Boy, we thought the lyrics earlier in the episode were suggestive. Do you have a favorite bar from this one? Really tough call.

[Joanna Robinson]

What's the line about, like, paying for the pinky.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, that's a great one. Oh, Alice with three fingers never had a lot. She gave me all she had to give Two more than what was sought.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

And then before. So that's the chorus. Oh, two more than what I bought before that. That we get the. I once gave her a silver feeling down and loan. I tried to buy a pinky but.

[Joanna Robinson]

I got the whole arm. I tried to buy a pinky but got the whole arm bone. That's. That's one fucking. Whole arm bone, as it were. Um.

[Mallory Rubin]

Born bereft of thumb is also just. This is a.

[Joanna Robinson]

This is a great song. Again, Dan Roemer, call us. I want to talk to you about all of the lyrics that you've put together for this show. I am curious if, like, what. What the prompt was for this. Like, give it. Give us a Body Tavern song or give us specifically a song about a woman who doesn't have all her fingers right before Tencel is about to get her fingers broken. You know what I mean? Like, is it like that direct of a connection that we're trying to make here? But, like, right, you know, Tanzel. You know, no matter what. This is a horrible thing for Tanzel. They broke. He broke all the puppets. Her uncle was on the ground, you know, Is he going to be okay? We don't know. She broke her fingers. Like, health care is not great in Westeros. You know? Like, you know all that. Like, things are really bad. It's even worse in the book, I would say, because of that quote you read about her needing the fingers to make the dragon slither and snap or whatever else she needs to use her fingers for. Per. Your pervy mind.

[Mallory Rubin]

Mind.

[Joanna Robinson]

But like. But like, him breaking her fingers is breaking her life the way that he shattered Humphrey's leg.

[Mallory Rubin]

A little bit of a Jamie. Like I was that hand.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Jamie always and that.

[Joanna Robinson]

But, you know, Alice herself makes do with what she has.

[Mallory Rubin]

Boy, does she. Boy does she egg. You know, he's. He's in. Like, I'm in the dorm room. It's freshman year. I hit the bong wall once. I opened the philosophy textbook once And I've got a lot of thoughts about how the lyrics of this song connect to honor and hope. That's the head space, he said. I honestly loved it.

[Joanna Robinson]

I loved it, too. I was thinking about Joffrey putting the bolts into poor Roz because, like, the way in which a Joffrey thinks about a woman who is a sex worker. I mean, Roz, there were other reasons why she found a. Herself there, but like, the way in which we've heard people in general, and perhaps Royal specifically talk about women who make money with their bodies. And the way that Egg is talking about the honor of Alice here. And this just speaks to again, like, what's so important about Egg's journey inside of this story is like seeing the world from a different point of view.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

And. And saying, you know, human. Here's this, you know, girl who was so good, so prodigiously talented at what she did that they wrote songs about her. And he's like, here's what this thing she does. Sticking the whole arm bone up someone's ass.

[Mallory Rubin]

Is this not the act of a dogged spirit?

[Joanna Robinson]

I mean, yes, Rick, rip the bong once for sure, but, like, he's. Yeah, he's finding dignity in. In positions in the world that all other royals that we've met have just looked down upon.

[Mallory Rubin]

Absolutely. There is an embrace of all sorts of circumstances and lives and choices. I. I agree completely. I think that actually is genuinely really love. There's like a version of this scene that goes so poorly, but this. This. They really managed to, like, do a thing that we could mock but make it work. I know I either so of a piece with the tales grow and the telling a tall tale that became legend, like, through line of the show as well. You know, this idea of, like, what's in a name? What's in the identity that you forge. How do people remember you? Why, like, what do they remember you for? Does it matter if there's a lesson inside of it that we can heed? It's, like, all connected and there's high comedy, but it's all connected to these kind of, like, core questions and the thesis of the show.

[Joanna Robinson]

I love that. I have one last. I think this is. Yeah, I think this is my last TH White quote to read. But Merlin's talking about the best thing for being sad. Merlin says in the book is to learn something. And it's a long quote, but he says there's only one thing for it then. To learn. Learn why the world wags. And what wags it that Is the only thing which the mind can never exhaust, never alienate, never be tortured by, never fear or distressed and never dream of regretting. Learning is the only thing for you. Look, what a lot of things there are to learn. And this is like, Egg is just out here in the world and Dunk and leading Dunk by the hand. To say, like, Dunk's like, I don't know. I think Alice is just a nice name to write a song about, which is like, probably partially true.

[Mallory Rubin]

And then he also says, one might wish for more, which is, of course, perfect Dunk.

[Joanna Robinson]

But Egg just being like, okay, and like, let's. Let's continue this thought process. Like, you know, like, we've. We've seen Dunk before. Just sort of like, say a thing and that's the end of the thought. And Egg's like. And, you know, and so here's Egg being like, and what else can we think about this particular story, this lesson that we're learning here, Giving more than.

[Mallory Rubin]

What is asked APPL of them. But really, this is such a great episode for that idea for Egg because again, he, like, doesn't need to be making these choices or doing these things. And of course, that's always a.

[Joanna Robinson]

He has written a dissertation on a body Rave tent song.

[Mallory Rubin]

The whole arm bone as well.

[Joanna Robinson]

Come on, House of Ar.

[Mallory Rubin]

Egg, please. Egg, you have a stance.

[Joanna Robinson]

Prince Aegon Targaryen Alys.

[Mallory Rubin]

As a way in for Egg to be like, could I live a different life than the one that they told me? I had to just. The show is great. Speaking of thoughts about the future prophecies, we're wandering through the market now.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's a big show invention moment. This is. This is plunking the cat's part. Catspaw. Dagger on the.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

On the table.

[Mallory Rubin]

Some of it is. Is, you know, speaking of plunking things on the table, some of it's right from the page. Like, you know, the sausages. A lot of sausage talk in the page. And they have real, like, Arlen Cock Eye sausages in their hands here.

[Joanna Robinson]

My mom used to call them walking. Walking forests. Like when you walk around like a. Like a German mark, a German Christmas market, and you get a sausage and just walking around with it.

[Mallory Rubin]

Sausages have come up quite a bit on the. The industry pods. Did you ever think you'd be podcasting this much about sausages?

[Joanna Robinson]

Sausages on the pit as well? I gotta say, it's a great time for sausage on television.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, man. This is where before the fortune teller wanders into the path this is where Dunk is brought. Briefly talking about his father and this idea like, okay, I was, you know, bringing stuff for the bowl of brown and, you know, yo. This idea that he could have seen his own father hanged and not known it. Right? Didn't even know who he was. Asked Egg, do you know who your father was, Mom? No, not really.

[Joanna Robinson]

As unknowable as Mallory Rubin.

[Mallory Rubin]

As unknowable as Joanna Robinson. They walk past Plummer looking at dung. He's like, are you ready to give me your answer? And Dunk is not. He walks by. But as you noted later, he will say to. To Raymond, you know, Andrew and I are. And they matched. And then they pass this fortune teller who stops them and offers to share their fortunes. Here's what she says to Dunk. You shall no great success to be richer than a Lannister. And Dunk's like, thanks. Now do the boy. Do the boy. And she says to Ag, ye shall be king and die in a hot fire, and worms shall feed upon your ashes and all know you shall rejoice in your dying. And Egg is like, bro, what?

[Joanna Robinson]

What?

[Mallory Rubin]

Why did she say that? And Dunk is cracking up laughing because.

[Joanna Robinson]

He'S like, this is my. My. My little avatar, the last airbender squire. And Egg is like, well, I'm a Targaryen, so it's not.

[Mallory Rubin]

That's alarming here.

[Joanna Robinson]

Not possible that this could happen.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, man, there is a lot to. To. To say about this. We talked about this with CR On Talk to Thrones. To me, the most interesting part about this and in general in George's work because he is obsessed with prophecy, is just like tracking how a character responds to hearing something like, what does it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Do to you to hear for Eggs specifically? Right? Because if Dunk hears, you should all grow no great success and be richer than a Lannister. Okay. Something to think about. You shall be king and die in a hot fire. Worm shall feed upon your ashes and all you know who know you shall rejoice in your dying. How is that not hanging over?

[Mallory Rubin]

You would think about it every choice.

[Joanna Robinson]

You make going forward, which again, given that it's a show invention and not a book, this is something that you know. This is something that the Catspaw dagger does for House of the Dragon, where it's like every single decision made by these Targaryens. Targaryens. Some of these Targaryens who know the prophecy is informed by this thing.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

So what Egg does going forward, how much is he thinking about trying to Avoid and then self fulfill in one way or another. This prophecy from this woman.

[Mallory Rubin]

We just, we've talked for years about maybe doing a prophecy tropes course one of these days and then we are like we can't because it would have to be like a year of work. It could never be one like two.

[Joanna Robinson]

Hours on the Ghost of High Heart.

[Mallory Rubin]

That's the thing. It's like just, just inside of Thrones stories we could do a multi part, multi week, multi month series. So this is not going to be exhaustive but like think of and we've all talked about this many times over many pots over the years the way that Cersei is shaped by what Maggie the Frog says to her, right? We talked in Hoti about like how will demon respond to hearing Alice say you will die in this place. You just mentioned the Caspal Blade. That's a really fun one because when we talk about prophecies in in the Thrones world obviously like there's a fortune teller or a woods witch or someone issues a prophecy. There is the adjacent related like dragon dreams or green dreams. There are all sorts of versions of like something that comes into your life. We're going to probably talk more about, we're going to talk more about dragon dreams in future weeks. But Aegon's dream, the Song of Ice and Fire in Hot D is like a really fun one because for the Conqueror it's a dream and for everyone else then it's a prophecy. Like it's. That's a really fun one then obviously that's now just something on our minds all the time when we think about the targets and the choices that they've made. And that's something we've been enjoying tracking across Hot D. But like Viserys saying to Rhaenyra when he is sharing this and explaining this, in season one, the last of the Valyrian pyromancers hid his song in the steel. From my blood comes the prince that was promised and his will be the Song of Of Fire. A responsibility I have handed to you. The burden of this knowledge. It is larger than the throne, the king. It is larger than you and your desires. You hear something like this, it is the most important thing. Like how could it not be right? How could it not take a grip and a hold on your consciousness? The Prince that was Promised has been just incorporated into that show canon. But obviously in Thrones, the prince that was promised in the Song of Ice and Fire text, that's something we talk about a lot. Bizarre High the Stallion Amounts the world. World. We had our Quaithe prophecies. We had the House and the Undying. There are myriad examples that we could run through of, like, what does someone see or hear?

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

And then what do. What do they think about it?

[Joanna Robinson]

But. And also what I will say, and I have had, like, pretty much no notes about the added dialogue they put in this show. There is no doubt to me that George had to sign off on this. Right. Because this is such, like, a seismic thing to put in. In the plot here that there's, like, no way. Ira just, like, went off script and. And dropped a prophecy in here, a big old prophecy. So George signs off on this, right. These prophecies are not in the same caliber as we usually get. They're usually like, fun little, like, picture puzzles for us. Like the Ghost of the High Heart, of. Of High Heart says, I dreamt I saw a shadow with a burning heart butchering a golden stag. Right. Melisandre Shadow, baby. I dreamt of a man without a face Waiting on a bridge that swayed and swung on his shoulder perch a drone crow with seaweed hanging from his wings. That's. I am the storm brother. Right. I dreamt of a roaring river and a woman that was a fish, a Tully dead. She drifted with red tears on her cheeks but when her eyes had opened, oh, I woke from terror. It's Lady Stoneheart, right?

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

You know, like, she does a red wedding. I dreamt of a maid at a feast with purple serpents in her. Her hair, venom dripping from her fangs. It's Sansa at the purple wedding, you know, so, like, there's just these really fun little puzzles that, like, in many case, the reader doesn't know what the hell they're talking about until it happens. This happens with, like, what Daenerys sees in the House of the Undying. They're like fun puzzles for us to, like, try to figure out.

[Mallory Rubin]

Ornaments. Ornaments.

[Joanna Robinson]

Salt smoke.

[Mallory Rubin]

Is he a ham? Perhaps my favorite example of that. Yeah. And then, like, every character who comes across something like that looking to apply it either to themselves or just somebody else in there.

[Joanna Robinson]

This is just a little bit more straightforward, though I will say, worm shall feed upon your ashes. Is worms is the one sort of like food for, you know, Prince Hell. Food for worms. Like Shakespeare. Sure. But, like, you know, worms in the dragon sense. W Y R M S Like, you know, what's blood worm? What's going on with that? So, you know, I just. I like my prophecies a bit more. Sure. Of course. Riddly a Bit more like cryptic crossword, you know, than we got here.

[Mallory Rubin]

So, yeah, definitely. I think Egg probably would have preferred that as well, you know, for sure.

[Joanna Robinson]

Ghost of High Heart, I just want to say a character who shows up in A Song of Ice and Fire, but also, like, was around in this time. So there have been some people saying, like, is this the ghost of High Heart? Doesn't really match the description.

[Mallory Rubin]

Does not. Certainly does not match the description.

[Joanna Robinson]

She's supposed to be quite a bit smaller. She came to court with Jenny Oldstones. A stunted thing. Grotesque to look upon. This is just a lady. So, you know, this is just actually a very pleasant looking lady. So I don't know that this is the ghost of High Heart, but the ghost of High Heart is a character who interacts with Egg's story. So great character. Something to think about, do you think?

[Mallory Rubin]

In the writer's room of every Thrones spinoff and every Thrones story, there's just like, you guys were talking about this on industry, you know, what does Tender have in the actual office? You think they have in the writers room? The Viserys quote to Allison from season one. What is the power of a dragon against the power of prophecy? You think that's just hanging up above everybody in neon. What color?

[Joanna Robinson]

Bright pink.

[Mallory Rubin]

I'm really enjoying, by the way, that they're, they're, they're dressing Henry Muck in, like, tar colors.

[Joanna Robinson]

I love this stealthy industry pod we're having right now.

[Mallory Rubin]

I, I, I, I'm caught up. Finally. It's.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's very good.

[Mallory Rubin]

What a season of television. Holy, holy. Episode four. Took a couple years off my life. That was harrowing, but really great. Raymond.

[Joanna Robinson]

All the buyers, baby.

[Mallory Rubin]

Man Raymond. He's here to serve some cider and spill some tar tea. Spots them, invites. Dunk over. Dunk's like, oh, I really wanted to go get my shield from Tenso. This is a bad time for this. Invite my guy.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's so funny because he's like, I want to get my sh. Like, I want to get my shield. Part of it is also, like, I'm still embarrassed by the goose egg thing. That was sort of my interpretation. Like, like, he's like, oh, thanks. The ciders sound good, but I kind of want to go see Tenza.

[Mallory Rubin]

If I do, how will I?

[Joanna Robinson]

But it'll be so embarrassing because I did that goose egg thing in front of her and she hasn't forgotten. It was hours ago.

[Mallory Rubin]

Great stuff. Egg's like, don't worry. I like the puppet show. So I'LL go watch the puppet show and then I'll get your shield.

[Joanna Robinson]

I also thought it was so, like, both in the book and the show is clear that Egg is worried that Raymond Fossoway will recognize him, which informed us a little about. About House Foss away. Like, have they been to court? You know, have they been to Summerhall? Like, you know, Egg is wary of all nobles, but I just thought it was interesting that Raymond Fossaway is someone that he was, like, nervous about.

[Mallory Rubin]

I do think we've talked about this before, but I do think this is an area where something is a little lost. Page screen.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, purple eyes. Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, just the fact that, like, it is like, Egg is unmistakably a Targaryen, even with the shaved head. And Dunk is like a real doofus for missing it. Like, Egg does not think anyone else who looked at his purple eyes would miss.

[Joanna Robinson]

He's so nice.

[Mallory Rubin]

He's like, I got a. Anyone would be able to. Do you have purple eyes? Oh, are you a Targaryen? And Dunk is just like my dude, how'd you like the bacon this morning?

[Joanna Robinson]

His eyes are kind of like a bluish, like a dark bluish kind of color.

[Mallory Rubin]

Dunk. Raymond takes him to his tent. He's a home brewer.

[Joanna Robinson]

I want to try the fossil away cider. Me too.

[Mallory Rubin]

I love a cider. I love a cider.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think ciders can get you like a dry cider. You like very dry. Very, very dry, sweet cider. Very cold. Yeah, because if it gets warm, it's over. Honestly, I think like a frosty dry cider.

[Mallory Rubin]

That sounds great. Yeah, I do like a sweet cider. Okay, but I'm not surprised that you don't, based on your wine takes from Ronier and your port slander.

[Joanna Robinson]

Good.

[Mallory Rubin]

First, Trina, didn't I have port together at Comic Con?

[Joanna Robinson]

No, I didn't have port with you.

[Mallory Rubin]

You didn't order port at the team dinner? No, I got a port.

[Joanna Robinson]

You got a port. You had a martini, I got a coffee or. Well, I got. I got several martinis and I think I got a coffee. I usually have coffee with dessert, not porn.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, man. Great stuff. Raymond brings. Brings up Aryan and his rage over having to give his horse to. To Humphrey. And then this is where they talk about Egg's belief that Aryan acted intentionally. And Raymond's like, yeah, no, dude, here's what Raymond says. They're incestuous aliens, Duncan. Blood magickers and tyrants who've burned our lands, enslaved our people, dragged us into their wars. Without a moat of respect for our history or our customs. Every pale haired brat they've saddled on us has been matter than the last. Would you say when a Targaryen is born, the gods flip a coin, Joe. Would you say that he then finishes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Not on someone's tits.

[Mallory Rubin]

Not on someone's tits, but by talking about finishing on the tits and then saying Stefan taught him that, which I thought was fucking hysterical. I think it's like dangerous words, Joe.

[Joanna Robinson]

Very dangerous words. I think it's. I was thinking about like House Fossil itself and like what, what? Like how much you often are much you learned from Stefan. Like what is the Foss Away beef specifically with House Targaryen? I mean everyone is throwing rocks at, at Aaron, you know, but like so House Foss away, you know, Age of Heroes House like yes. Been around for a long time.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Was very, very rich. So rich that like a. An advantageous marriage with House Foss away enriched the Tyrells, who are like mega rich.

[Mallory Rubin]

Right.

[Joanna Robinson]

You know, so like a long storied House of the Reach. Field of fire. Field of Fire. When Aegon's conquest happened, just torched the shit out of the Reach. Right. And so if the Fossoway's resentment goes back to Aegon's conquest, it's been sitting around a while also. We may or may not. I don't know, what if they're going to go there, meet a Foss away in House of the Dragon, one of the House of the Trail Dragons, season three or season four. They were definitely involved in the Dance of Dragons and definitely like some went down there. So like yes, you know, take your pick of your, you know. And then. And then to your point, Blackfyre Rebellion more recently, we don't have anything of record about House Fossilway's involvement in that. But like Houseway somewhere between the dance and now lost their lord status. So they are fallen from grace. So they were one of the richest houses in the realm, long standing and now they are a poor house with a chip on their shoulder. And like I'm with them like the Targaryens, honestly. Like, yeah, of course you don't get to conquer a land just because you have WMDs. Like that's how I feel. But also they have perhaps a personal reason as to why Raymond, might 3 foss waysiders deep be spitting these hard facts, you know.

[Mallory Rubin]

Three possible way, Steve. I hope that one sticks around.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's a great one.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Would you rather be three fossil way ciders deep or the whole arm bone deep?

[Mallory Rubin]

To me, it sounds like they're probably linked if the evening's gone right, one follows the other. Exactly. Certainly what Raymond says here is, I think, spicier than maybe everyone is prepared for, given the pod coding that we talked about earlier in the season. And certainly spicy than what he says in the book. Don't look so anxious, Sir Duncan. There's none here but us. There's no secret there and is a bad piece of work. Thank the gods that he is. Well down in the order of succession.

[Joanna Robinson]

Do you think it's really weird that Raymond didn't say he's a bad apple?

[Mallory Rubin]

I mean, yeah, I do, actually, given the sheer heft of the apple puns that he and Stefan rip off all of the time.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right.

[Mallory Rubin]

The incest thing that he mentions here is interesting because like obviously that is.

[Joanna Robinson]

Guys, they're barely incestuous right now.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, this is a kind of weird time.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's like hardly incest.

[Mallory Rubin]

Very incest. Light period in dark history, certainly relatively speaking in terms of the the past and the future, honestly, from Fire and Blood, Blood, the fictional history text on which House of the Dragon is. Is based the idea of Targaryen exceptionalism. All this the exceptionalists affirmed, but with this caveat. The Targaryens were different. Their roots were not in Andalos, but in Valeria of old, where different laws and traditions held sway. A man had only to look at them to know that they were not like other men. Dunk you paying attention. Their eyes, their hair, their very bearing, all proclaimed their differences. And they flew dry dragons. They alone of all the men in the world had been given the power to tame those fearsome beasts once the doom had come to Valyria. So incest. The Targaryens got away with incest. Basically carved out an incest loophole in Westeros because they wrote dragons. So this is all connected. The fact that. Yeah. The fact that they don't have dragons. It opens up. And there were plenty of plenty of people before when they did have dragons who were like, you shouldn't be able to your sister. This is not cool.

[Joanna Robinson]

My hot take. It's not a good idea.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's not just don't fuck your sister. Right?

[Joanna Robinson]

But their whole. Their whole excuse was we keep the bloodline pure. Thin out the bloodline because maybe it'll dilute our ability to connect with these dragons, right?

[Mallory Rubin]

And so now they have no dragons. So they open the door to saying like stop fucking your relatives. Like stop doing all these things that you've gotten away with that are like A and certainly on the faith of the seven front, like in a frustration front to the faith and followers of the faith. But Darren ii, the current king, married a Martell Balor is married to a Dondaran Aries, a Penrose maker, a Dane. So this is a period of focusing on sh up alliances, specifically in a certain region, because Dorne is in the fold now. So Dorne angry houses in the Dornish marches, the nearby Stormlands. This is about political alliances and strengthening bonds so that they can maintain a hold on Pennsylvania power through a more traditional means, because they don't have dragons. So you. You have all that, but then you have the dance, obviously. A civil war inside the family, heavily fueled by ancestral practices. Blackfyre rebellion is very connected to inflow, to incest. And so this idea that Raymond or anybody, only 13 years, a decade and a half later will be like these incestuous aliens does make sense, even though this is an incest light period.

[Joanna Robinson]

Because I gotta say, I'm pretty sure the Blackfyre rebellion just comes down to, I want to my sister. No, I want to my sister.

[Mallory Rubin]

Exactly, Exactly.

[Joanna Robinson]

You can't fuck your sister. I want to fuck my sister.

[Mallory Rubin]

Darren II's parents were related. Daemon Blackfyre's parents were related. Aegon IV is both of their fathers, Aegon the Unworthy, Naerys and Daena, their respective mothers. And Daemon was in love with his half sister, Daenerys. That's like, basically the big rumor for, like, what the war was actually about. Like, yeah, sure, he gave him the sword, but also incest also, I just don't.

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't think you like half. Who cares at that point if you put a half in front of it or not? Still, your sister.

[Mallory Rubin]

Didn'T sway Raymond, that's for sure. So, yeah, these are wild things to say, but one more way of very effectively showing us the. The fragile ground that the. The tar stand on right now. Yep, Aryan is one of the targets standing on that fragile ground. And so he's like, I'm going to break some fingers. We cut the egg hood up. Watching the puppy show it is once again Seren of the mirror shield, which makes sense to show us something that's now familiar to us, but is really an interesting choice for what Aryan is witnessing. For the obvious reason the dragon is about to get stabbed. The dragon I'd never lose. But this is an Age of Heroes tale. As we've mentioned before, the Targaryens are not involved in this at all. It's not actually about the Targaryens but that tells us something about Aryan's, like.

[Joanna Robinson]

Is this play about us?

[Mallory Rubin]

The dragon as a symbol of himself to him in his mind seeking the Targaryens, he could really benefit from more than a few seconds.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's not about you at all. I also love that. I loved that Tenzel, you know, is a performer as well as a puppeteer. We see her more as a performer than anything else. But I love that, you know, know she's playing Serwyn, which is not the same as Sir Irwin, but she's dressed as a knight, right? And so when Dunk walks in and sees her being mutilated here, it's like the image, the pristine image of knighthood is being desecrated on both sides, you know, by Arian. I love that bright fucking flame, the bright prince.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's not as bright as idea, that's for sure. The fact too that this legend, this story, it's basically like a dragon being outsmarted, a dragon being outclassed, a dragon being tricked. So that if you think you're a dragon and you're watching everybody cheer and the idea of a dragon being outsmarted, out, outplay, outlast, outwit the outwitted.

[Joanna Robinson]

Outwitted is the real survivor.

[Mallory Rubin]

Like Jeff Probst is just there providing commentary. It's like.

[Joanna Robinson]

And it's just Mike White pretending to be drunk, making it all the way to the final tribal.

[Mallory Rubin]

Mike White quotes in the trailers and commercials for season 50 are my hype. Could not be.

[Joanna Robinson]

Have you seen some of like the behind the scenes interviews?

[Mallory Rubin]

I've seen a couple. I've seen a couple.

[Joanna Robinson]

He's like, he's given real McLovin energy.

[Mallory Rubin]

I mean, not, it's tough, but.

[Joanna Robinson]

And then he called, he called Savannah Mini poverty and I was just sort of like, he's got, he's got the numbers. Because everyone else is like, they're a mystery. We don't know who they are.

[Mallory Rubin]

Mike White's like, let me read the numbers. I didn't have to see season 49 to be able to explain this perfectly.

[Joanna Robinson]

Guess what? Guess what I write White Lotus. I know an archetype when I see one.

[Mallory Rubin]

Casting news, all very exciting for season four of Lotus. Can't wait. Can't wait to be back in the White Lotus universe with you and hopefully also in France covering the show in person. This is my, this is my new mission, by the way.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay, so we're going to Oxford, I.

[Mallory Rubin]

Was going to say on the Oxford Oxnard front, then prepping for Buffy I was like, oh yeah, that's a joke in Buffy with.

[Joanna Robinson]

Sean's a real Buffy head. Maybe.

[Mallory Rubin]

I mean, it's entirely possible.

[Joanna Robinson]

Did you see one of our listeners let us know that a the Eagle and the Child has been closed for a bit. And then also. Who owns it now? Awful.

[Mallory Rubin]

Terrible. Google. I did. I saw the Instagram comments and then I Googled it. I was like, oh no.

[Joanna Robinson]

Very bad.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh no. That was upsetting.

[Joanna Robinson]

So do you think we can outbid Larry Elson? I mean, Larry Ellison already owns it, but like, can we give Larry Ellison enough money that we own the Eagle and Child and we open sort of like House of Reads inside of the Eagle and Child.

[Mallory Rubin]

I mean, that is very appealing. I don't think that he is one of the people on the list of like folks we could outbid.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, not for all the Euros and Sweden.

[Mallory Rubin]

We need plumber to. To approach us with a little offer on the side.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh my God.

[Mallory Rubin]

We cut away from Aryan witnessing what he witnesses in the crowd. He's got his hand on his sword. How the crowd has like parted as palace hush falls over the room just because of his presence. We cut back to Raymond and Dunk. They're laughing, so there's this kind of like incongruous tone. They're still talking about Aryan. Like, yeah, you wouldn't done this if his dad hadn't been there. Oh, I noticed. I noticed that.

[Joanna Robinson]

That make.

[Mallory Rubin]

Our chair was empty. Where was he? Oh, he's off looking for his missing kids. In show and book alike. We get this great. And the youngest.

[Joanna Robinson]

And then.

[Mallory Rubin]

Right before we get the.

[Joanna Robinson]

Actual RA hang out in. You've got three tent options. Get to watch a puppet show. No violence, but like any puppet, anything that Tencel and company are putting on.

[Mallory Rubin]

Okay. Okay. Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay. Lionel Baratheon's rave tent.

[Mallory Rubin]

Of course.

[Joanna Robinson]

A one on one sit down in the Foss tent. As many Foss ciders as you couldn't enjoy.

[Mallory Rubin]

I'm putting with respect to Raymond Foss, a character I really like. That's last for me, even though I love a quiet evening. Yeah, I show Raymond is giving me anxiety actually a little bit.

[Joanna Robinson]

I like him a lot.

[Mallory Rubin]

I think he's. No, I think he's wonderful. He's very sweet. But if I were were in that universe and I found myself in that tent, I'd be like, shut your mouth. Like, you're making me nervous. Who might hear this? What might happen? Scary, scary stuff from Raymond in that scene. Also, I. The accent's really thick. So if I Had. Had three siders. I don't know how active of a participant I would be in that conversation now. I don't get out much. This is really kind of more aspirational thinking because sitting one on one with Raymond is more like my everyday life. I don't have a lot of, like, I'm in Lionel's rave tent experiences in my life. I don't get out much. So that is exciting to think about because it would be a new experience. I would say, like, I'm at Ashford Meadow. I'm on vacation. I'm out in the world. I'm out in the field. Let me live a little. So I would want to talk myself into hanging out with Lionel. Those pastries look great. The turkey leg looks great. And I liked the quiet story time after with him. Puppet show also wonderful because I like learning about history, you know, so that's fun. That's like a. Like a podcast in that universe, you know, that would be great. Just going to a podcast live show. I love that. So I'm going, Lionel, how could you pass on? Lionel is just clearly the best hang in the show.

[Joanna Robinson]

So it's like, I kind of disagree. Lionel. Night one.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Night three or whatever this is. The vibes are slightly off in the. In the Baratheon 10.

[Mallory Rubin]

I have to say, I would have been honored to witness the Alice. I don't think Alice rendition.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think things are tough.

[Mallory Rubin]

You know, tug of war seemed great.

[Joanna Robinson]

Sir Manford's getting way too much airtime in that tent. Like, you know, a friend of Sir Manfred's, not a friend of mine. Okay. So for me, it's puppet number one. Because I love the theater. Yeah. I wouldn't call it a live podcast. I would say it's the theater. So I'd love to go to the theater.

[Mallory Rubin]

Ben. Raymond.

[Joanna Robinson]

Raymond.

[Mallory Rubin]

He's just, like, sitting there burping in Dunk's face.

[Joanna Robinson]

No, it sounds, like, really fun. Okay.

[Mallory Rubin]

I do love a cider, though.

[Joanna Robinson]

And then the Baratheon rave 10 on.

[Mallory Rubin]

This is shocking stuff from you. What a twist. You love the laughing storm. Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Night one.

[Mallory Rubin]

What about the last night you go back at the end before you leave Ashford?

[Joanna Robinson]

That guy is not awake on the last night of the. Of the party.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, great stuff in the book. We get some, you know, end the show. We get some, like, family tree details that are about to be relevant. So most like Darren. He's probably just drunk again.

[Joanna Robinson]

Seven.

[Mallory Rubin]

No. Why? Darren's aot. Aryan's just vain and cruel. The third. So Useless. They were going to ship him off to the citadel to make him a ma.

[Joanna Robinson]

And the other.

[Mallory Rubin]

We get a very similar version in the book. This is the poor make our poor, said Dunk, startled the king's son quote that we've read before. The king's fourth son, said Raymond, not quite as bold as Prince Balor, nor as clever as Prince Aries, nor as gentle as Prince Rhaegal. And now he must suffer, seeing his own sons overshadowed by his brothers. Darren is Assad, Arian is vain. And cr. The third son was so unpromising, they gave him to the citadel to make a maester of him and the youngest. So we're getting some like, who are all these characters? Before we learn that Egg is a part of their family tree. In the book, when Egg bursts in and says Aryan's hurting her, the puppet girl. And Dunk springs to action. Raymond issues warning in the book and I. I've always really liked this dunk made to follow. But Raymond caught his arm. Sir Duncan Aryan, he said, a prince of the blood. Be careful. It was good counsel. He knew the old man would have said the same, but he could not listen. Like, connects to what we've been talking about. I'll pod just that Dunk is going to do something different. His own thing.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

But also just the warning like that. And I just want to shout out, no, don't do this.

[Joanna Robinson]

I want to shout out, michael Guy Raymond, who goes to get. He does his shitty cousin, but also the men at arms. Like, he goes up. Yeah. He shows up at the end, but he's not. Not alone. Like, he wasn't just like, let me meander to the tent behind him. He was busy getting help.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

You know, but.

[Mallory Rubin]

But not playing get help. Not the Thor, Loki, get help.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right. Actually. And not the Sam Raimi film. Send help.

[Mallory Rubin]

I haven't seen it.

[Joanna Robinson]

I did.

[Mallory Rubin]

Did you like it? Sean liked it.

[Joanna Robinson]

I like Dylan O', Brien, Rachel McAdams a lot. I. I don't know that I loved the movie, but Dylan o', Brien, absolute king.

[Mallory Rubin]

You're crushing. You're crushing the tape here in la at the theater every night. Because you can't be in Raymond's tent.

[Joanna Robinson]

I'm a film lover. Speaking of cinema, you know, on the behind the scenes, they showed a couple, like, cool camera tricks that they did to, like, bring us into the tent in the first place to zoom up onto Tencel getting her finger snapped by Aryan. But also the reverse dolly zoom that they do on Dunk, which is just like a classic. Cool Cinema trick to just sort of like show sort of reality bending for someone or emotions overwhelming someone. And this is like Duncan just seeing red.

[Mallory Rubin]

The soundscape kind of helps reinforce that as well.

[Joanna Robinson]

The quote they. That Sarah, the director used was the. The beast inside him is awoken. Right. So like, you know, you don't want to wake the dragon. You don't want to wake whatever's inside of Duncan because it's taller.

[Mallory Rubin]

Would you say there's a beast in every man and it stirs when you put a sword in its hand?

[Joanna Robinson]

One might.

[Mallory Rubin]

His sword and dagger were forgotten. The passage goes along with everything the old man had ever taught him.

[Joanna Robinson]

This is.

[Mallory Rubin]

Feral. This is instinct. This is something core instinct.

[Joanna Robinson]

This is why, I mean, like, let's hope that Dunk would protect anyone. But, like, this is why it was very important to show how, like, heart eyed he was just like, gone on Danzel. Yes. The first we only had two episodes to. Yeah, lay that track here. And here we are.

[Mallory Rubin]

He wanted to lay that track.

[Joanna Robinson]

This is what our listener Sarah said. Speaking of laying track, Sarah wrote, when Doug punched and then threw that little son of a bitch around like a rag, I was very, very much into it. I felt elated and borderline turned on. Do I need to see professional help?

[Mallory Rubin]

Geez. Who is Sarah? Us talking about Giles on the Buffy pots.

[Joanna Robinson]

I was gonna say. I was. I almost didn't include this. And I was like, we keep talking about this this way, about Giles. So fair enough.

[Mallory Rubin]

This is. It's an overpowering show from Dunk.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right.

[Mallory Rubin]

He might have kicked him to death right then and there, but the princeling's men swarmed over him. He is not having trouble getting the best of Aryan. Bright flame. That. That's clear. Aryan lifts himself up, spits out some blood, and then Carlos, let's hear what he says. Why did you throw your life away for this hole?

[Joanna Robinson]

She's scarcely worth it. It's a traitor. The dragon will never lose.

[Mallory Rubin]

This was like Chris's favorite TV moment in a decade. Basically the way that Finn Bennett says, why did you throw your life away for this horror? Really impactful.

[Joanna Robinson]

And Finn talked about this, about how he and the director, Sarah decided that this was like the scariest response that Aryan could have. Like, way scarier than a tantrum. Is this sort of like calm confusion. I kind of like the way that it's his confusion, his puzzlement.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Around Dunk mirrors Dunk's puzzlement around Aryan. And like all this other, like, sort of example, he's like, it's not supposed to be this way. The world's not supposed to be this way. And this is what Aryan feels. He's like, it's not supposed to be like this. What are. What are you doing?

[Mallory Rubin]

I, I.

[Joanna Robinson]

She's a horse. She's not. She's a puppeteer. But if she were, I mean, whatever. Right?

[Mallory Rubin]

So, like, challenging a notion of convention.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right. But just sort of like, what are you?

[Mallory Rubin]

Right.

[Joanna Robinson]

You know, and then my instinct is to break you like I break everything else. I'm gonna like, let's stage stomp your teeth.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. You lose one of my teeth. Well, we'll start by taking out all.

[Joanna Robinson]

Night for an eye. It's.

[Mallory Rubin]

That's always gone fine in thermal.

[Joanna Robinson]

A loose tooth for all of your teeth.

[Mallory Rubin]

I love this passage in the text because Aryan doesn't recognize, like, he. He thinks Dunk looks familiar, but it takes him a moment to place him. And Dunk's like, you mistook me for a stable boy. So they have this brief exchange, but it builds toward the same. In essence, the same. She's scarcely worth it. A trailer dragon. Never lose. Why did you throw your life away for this whore? But the passage ends with this. This is always like, I just think this is such a bar for. From George. He's mad, thought Dunk, but he is still a prince's son, and he means to kill me. He might have prayed then if he had known a prayer all the way through.

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't know the words.

[Mallory Rubin]

Doesn't know the words. But there was no time. There was hardly even time to be afraid. I think there is something so core and true there about how quickly everything can change. How quickly everything can change.

[Joanna Robinson]

So.

[Mallory Rubin]

So let's talk about both sides of this. The Aryan side of it, which we've already hit. Mostly worried about the targets. Fading position fueled by the crowd response.

[Joanna Robinson]

The red confetti coming out of the dragon. He's like, how dare.

[Mallory Rubin]

Absolutely not. He won't abide it. The Dunk side of it, though. Let's talk about that a little bit more. Reckless, mad, but it's honorable. It's right. This is what we. This is our hero for a reason.

[Joanna Robinson]

All men. Men are fools. And all men are knights defending the.

[Mallory Rubin]

Weak and protecting the innocents. Like, yeah, he's got a crush. But this is at its core what Dunk believes. A knight. What makes a knight a knight? This it is having being the only. Everyone else is standing around watching this happen in that tent. And Dunk walks in. Does the sound cloud his ears? Is he seeing Red. Does the beast rise within? Sure. But also the other thing that rises within is a sense of moral clarity. Like, I have lived my life to understand that a hedge knight is the truest kind of knight. Dunk, as Arlen taught him.

[Joanna Robinson]

Also, like, you know, there's been some debate about Aegon's choice to go get Dunk here, because it's sort of like, couldn't he have just said, like, stop, brother himself in that moment? Did he need to get Dunk involved or whatever?

[Mallory Rubin]

But I just love the idea, you.

[Joanna Robinson]

Know, in the book, he explains, like, he couldn't have run to the castle. It was too far. You know what I mean? So he could get. He'd get to Dunk, but, like, he knew that Dunk would do the right thing. He's hurting her, the puppet girl, and that's it. And Dunk's.

[Mallory Rubin]

He doesn't doubt that Dunk.

[Joanna Robinson]

Dunk is going to do this where we've seen, you know, where. Whereas Raymond Foss is like, hold on, dude. Yeah, let's calm down. Stefan Foss is certainly not going to get involved. Manfred. Don Darien's not going to get involved with Lionel Baratheon involved, maybe, if the whim suits him. You know what I mean? Would. Would any of these other knights get involved in this? And it's just sort of like, who's the truest fucking knight here at the tourney?

[Mallory Rubin]

It's so fun to think back to.

[Joanna Robinson]

Dunk the Hunk, as our listener called him.

[Mallory Rubin]

Dunk the Hunk.

[Joanna Robinson]

Hard Salt beef.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's fun to think back to the. The closing note of Hard Salt Beef of the second episode and Dunk's declaration. On the morrow we will show. Show them what his hand has wrought. Now he's talking about jousting, but this is really showing them what Arlen hand has wrought. Because that idea from. From Arlen. Other knights serve the lords who keep them or from whom they hold their lands. But we serve where we will for men whose causes we believe in. Every knight swears to protect the weak and innocent, but we keep the vow best. I think this idea that the hedge knight. There are all of these things that you feel like an indictment or a limit or a weakness. Wear it like armor. You can do the thing that you know is true and good and just not everybody else can do that. And they certainly don't choose to do that. So this is just such a crucial key moment, not only in Dunk's story, obviously, and in the flow of the season, but to show us who Dunk is. And for Dunk to prove to himself who he is, and it not only did it not require thought, there was no time for thought. There wasn't even time to be afraid. This is just who he is at his core.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Who is Egg at his core? It's time to find out. Aran's men have Dunk pinned to the stage. And Egg enters and he's like, stop. Dunk is terrified for him. You're gonna get hurt.

[Joanna Robinson]

Don't do that.

[Mallory Rubin]

Don't do that.

[Joanna Robinson]

Don't sit on my horse. You'll get hurt.

[Mallory Rubin]

God, that.

[Joanna Robinson]

You'll get hurt. Wait. In Yorkel, they're just like, following orders.

[Mallory Rubin]

You know me. Great stuff, Egg, little princeling. And let's hear Carlos. The exchange that transpires between Aegon Targaryen and his brother Aerion. You impudent little wretch.

[Joanna Robinson]

What's happened to your hair?

[Mallory Rubin]

I cut it off, brother. I didn't want to look like you. Dun, dun, dun. Cut to this face.

[Joanna Robinson]

Cut to that face. Cut to. Done, done, done.

[Mallory Rubin]

It is. It really is. That's great. It's so good. We've kind of already talked about. Anything else you want to say before we get into the family tree? A little bit more about just like the. The mid novella and mid season placement of this reveal. I think we've probably covered that. The king is Darren ii.

[Joanna Robinson]

His first son is Balor Breakspear.

[Mallory Rubin]

Balor's sons are Valaran Materis. Baylor's brothers are Aries Rhaegal, who also has a son, aor. And then back to the brothers Maekar.

[Joanna Robinson]

So Maekar is the fourth son of the current king, but he's not even like. He's not even. It's Balor. Than his sons.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes. And then.

[Joanna Robinson]

And then the other brothers and then Maekar. And then Maekar's sons are Darren, Aryan.

[Mallory Rubin]

Maester Aemon and Egg. And of course, we're just listing the bros because it's Westeros tough one.

[Joanna Robinson]

Who cares is says Tolkien or Martin, who the women are in this world.

[Mallory Rubin]

So at this moment, I would like to see this exact moment in Rhaenyra.

[Joanna Robinson]

Fourth son of the fourth son.

[Mallory Rubin]

Four son of the fourth son, 11th in line, not near the throne. At this moment in the canon, that is where we find Egg. It's just a thrill to be able to talk about the fact that he's Maester Aemond's brother. This is where Egg got the name Egg. Sweet Dunk is like his head does kind of look like an egg, but actually it's his brother Maester Aemond's name, nickname for him. It's short for Egon. My brother Eamon called me Egg. He's off at the citadel now learning to be a maester. That's from the book. So great. All of the moments with Maester Aemon in the text and the show where he is talking about eggs, some of which have some spoilers around them, so we'll proceed with caution or avoid. And then some of which are just completely fair game and fine to talk about. The John Amon Season 1, Book 1 Love is the Death of duty scene that we reference as frequently as any other moment. One of the most mechanics we cover.

[Joanna Robinson]

Famous moments, scenes from Game of Thrones as far as we're concerned. Huge fat spoiler.

[Mallory Rubin]

He does mention Maekar in that. I would say watch the whole scene if you don't care about spoilers for family tree stuff. But he says, what is duty against the feel of a newborn son in your arms or a brother's smile? Now obviously he's talking to John about Rob and everything happening at that point for the Starks. Egg is on his mind here. It's so apparent and it's just lovely. And then when Gilly and Sam are with me streaming and sweet little Sam is there and he's like, there he is. That laugh. Egg. Egg laughed like that. One of the first things I remember. Then there are some spoilers and then Maester Aemond says he was a jolly fellow. You want to remind us what Aemon says on his deathbed? Egg.

[Joanna Robinson]

I dreamed I was old. Cold, devastating.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh my God. I'm like getting. I'm getting sad right now. I'm gonna cry. In the text to dance with dragons, he says Maester Amon says to John, egg had an innocence to him, a sweetness we all love.

[Joanna Robinson]

Another very famous part of the story.

[Mallory Rubin]

Which we'll talk about. Go back to that one. Yeah, that full passage in the spoiler section. It's just a wonderful tie to be able to more overtly discuss across the pods between these key figures.

[Joanna Robinson]

So you know, Egg reveals himself here. He's not in. In massive amounts of danger, right? Cuz he's a prince. So he's not in like actual danger. He's going to be fine. He's a prince. But his adventure is over. That's the thing in Paramount. That's what you know. So that's why we keep hitting like the. The runny yolk of the sandwich or the. I could be quite happy in a place like this. Like these are all the things that he put.

[Mallory Rubin]

He's just like, put on the line to save Dunk.

[Joanna Robinson]

Just light it on fire. Cause this. This adventure for me is over. This life that I thought I could maybe carve for myself is over. And then for Dunk.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, my God, his face, Joe.

[Joanna Robinson]

The betrayal here of just sort of like, I'm not only in the trouble for what I've just done, but now I'm in so much trouble. Trouble for have. Having any dealings with this Targaryen prince, this Aegon. Like, if I'm not going to hang for this, I'm going to hang for that. And he did that to me. He knowingly put me in danger by putting himself with me. And I don't think Egg thought of it that way at all. But, like, those are the realities that Duncan has to consider here. And so, you know, and. And just sort of like you've been lying the whole time about who you were.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

And I.

[Mallory Rubin]

And I believed you.

[Joanna Robinson]

I believed you. I'm so dumb. I'm like, you know, that's the thing that, like.

[Mallory Rubin]

Because he's been talking all season about what a fool he is like that.

[Joanna Robinson]

To buy a car. That's me, man. You know, you do fine with your car purchases.

[Mallory Rubin]

That moment with Sweet Foot in episode two where he's like, where Dunk says, is there any measure of a fool? I feel Right. But like, Like, Arlen had gave him.

[Joanna Robinson]

All this advice about who to trust, and he's like, thinking about that when he's looking at the sex workers and like, all this other stuff like that. And he's just sort of like, he trusted this boy and, oh, it's a. An incestuous alien prince in disguise. And, like, Egg rushes in to protect him. But, like, how far is that protection? Like, how far is Egg going to put himself right on the line for.

[Mallory Rubin]

And what will matter more to. To Dunk himself that Egg revealed himself and blew up his own spot to make sure that Dunk was okay or that he forged this fiction in the first place. It's complicated. Great, great, great end to the episode, really, Lance. I think that book lovers loved it. And if you had no idea this was coming, you loved it. And that's just like you said at the beginning. The best.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think it was done perfectly.

[Mallory Rubin]

It really was great.

[Joanna Robinson]

I loved it.

[Mallory Rubin]

Book spoilers.

[Joanna Robinson]

Bye.

[Mallory Rubin]

If you don't want to hear this.

[Joanna Robinson]

Carlos is about to scare the bejesus ending.

[Mallory Rubin]

Please leave after this alarming sound from Carlos. Or perhaps he's already played the Alarming sound. Looks like he's typing something right now. Is he firing? Is he like Steve Harrington at the.

[Joanna Robinson]

Squawk, you know.

[Mallory Rubin]

Chicken sound here. Okay. Have you left. Are you gone? We're going to talk book spoilers. You really don't. Seriously. You don't want to hear this. If you. If you don't want to hear it. If you do you. Great.

[Joanna Robinson]

Welcome. I've not heard of him. You will. Aegon the Unlikely Prince Aegon King Aegon. King Aegon the Unlikely Targaryen.

[Mallory Rubin]

Okay, so after we. Let's take people behind the scenes for a second. After talk the Thrones, we were like, we really hope that just in the inside the episode, they're just like, and he'll be king one day. That did not happen.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's really tough.

[Mallory Rubin]

Did not happen.

[Joanna Robinson]

I feel like I really hinted very heavily at it and I didn't stop me from talk. I kept calling it the Sword in the Stone, though. So I wouldn't call it the Once and Future King. But like, I kept talking. I kept talking about King Arthur because, like, it's so important to talk about the. Anyway. A royal in disguise.

[Mallory Rubin]

A king.

[Joanna Robinson]

A king in disguise. Although he doesn't know he's going to be king.

[Mallory Rubin]

I think that I. I think I could be quite happy in a place like this. I found almost unbearably sad knowing the future that awaits an. On the one hand, he will continue to be in a place like this. There are adventures of. Of the Duncan Egg. The Duncan Egg continue. But the future for Aegon the Fifth Aegon the Unlikely is so bleak.

[Joanna Robinson]

I feel like. So you've amassed a bunch of great, like, World of Ice and Fire quotes and we can read them. But like, it. Knowing that George had to have signed off on this prophecy.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Is devastating. Right. Because he shall be king. Okay. Aegon the Unlikely.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Not easily named king.

[Mallory Rubin]

Great council.

[Joanna Robinson]

You know, there's a.

[Mallory Rubin]

We love a great council.

[Joanna Robinson]

Huge succession issue. But, like, a lot of Targaryens have to die before he gets there. But they do.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

And he does. Okay. So he becomes the king.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

And has a very contentious rule.

[Mallory Rubin]

But, like, the point is incredibly so. Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Because of his time here, up until this episode, I had like, though there's information in a world of ice and fire, which we can. You can read those questions. We can talk about in a second about, like, the ways in which the people are like, yeah, we're not sure about him. I was like, great reformer king. Which is like the whole thing about King Arthur Right. The fiction of King Arthur is that he was this great reformer king. And TH. White has this idea of, like, the reason why he's this great reformer king and why Camelot and Summerhall are these, like, sort of great Platonic ideals of. Of royalty is because he spent time among the people and he. And he learned to care for the people.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

And so Aegon is this reformer, and he's like, I went on the road with Dunk for years and years and years and years, and I know what it means.

[Mallory Rubin]

I lived among the small folk to.

[Joanna Robinson]

To have a mean whip stitch. You know what I mean? Like, all. All this sort of stuff like that. I think about Alice with three fingers. I think about all this sort of stuff like that. This made him unpopular with the lords. Oh, yeah. You know, but this idea of. And die in a hot fire. He will.

[Mallory Rubin]

Summer hall diet summer hall 259ac and worms. He's gonna be thinking about that for decades.

[Joanna Robinson]

I know. And worms shall feed upon your ashes. So we knew that he knew he would die in a fire, and he pursued this anyway. Worms shall feed upon your ashes. Right. Like, is that. Is that he's going to die. And food for worms. Is that the dragons that will come eventually from, you know, your line or your death, whatever.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

And all who know you shall rejoice in your dying.

[Mallory Rubin]

That's the dagger.

[Joanna Robinson]

That is crazy. And, like, there's a couple possible explanations here. Like, is it that I saw a lot of people being basically, like, egg was so badly burned that, like, even the people who love him were like, ah, at last he's dead. Because he's relieved from his suffering. Right? Yeah. Very badly burned. Like, then he's dead. Right. So, like, what a. What a relief. What a rejoice or. Yeah, because you have to think about Aemon. Aemon. Maester Aemon who's, like, his whole life is like, egg. Yeah. But, like, who did Egg become? And does he become so possessed.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, by the pursuit of dragons.

[Joanna Robinson]

By the pursuit of dragons that he, like, goes beyond. Oh, that guy's too much of a man of the people to. This guy is a mad king. Not quite. Burn them all. Right.

[Mallory Rubin]

But, like, lost.

[Joanna Robinson]

I will. I will go to any lengths to hatch dragons again, to take the Targaryens out of their flop era, to make sure that the reforms that I have in mind are backed up by the ancestral might and power of the Targaryens and to like and disprove that prophecy that all who know me shall rejoice in my Dying. They won't if I bring the dragons back. Like how much. How much of this is, you know, the self fulfilling kind of just sort of like I heard that I was going to be really unpopular and die in a fire, so I need dragons or else that's going to happen to me.

[Mallory Rubin]

That brings it about.

[Joanna Robinson]

And that's what brings it about.

[Mallory Rubin]

Summerhall. Yeah. I thought this is like the all who know you shall rejoice in your dying part felt very, very like connected to things we understand about the challenges of Eggs reign and like broken alliances and lost friendships. And also even people close to him being like, don't do this thing. But also it did feel like a leveling up of the all.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Shall rejoice.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. That felt. That felt all of his.

[Joanna Robinson]

I mean, I know his kids were like, you dad, I do what I want. I marry who I want. But like, they're excited that he's dead. Well, some of them are dead too, but you know what I mean.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. Prince Duncan is. Is. He's. He's a little crispy guy there.

[Joanna Robinson]

The. This idea of being inspelled by a prophecy at a young age I think is fascinating. You know what I mean?

[Mallory Rubin]

I mean, Egg is so young here. He's like nine years old. Right. So to hear this thing at any point in your life would leave an impression, certainly. But like, these are the coming of age, most formative years. And at a moment in Egg's life where he is so actively thinking about who am I and who do I I want to be? What choices do I want to make? What life do I want to live? Like, what a. What a ripe and raw time to hear this thing.

[Joanna Robinson]

The.

[Mallory Rubin]

On the incest front, like the idea that, you know, the incest. Incest returns with eggs kids. I mean, he's like the black one.

[Joanna Robinson]

Says, Robert Jr. Shall return for Avengers.

[Mallory Rubin]

Doomsday Summer Hall Doomsday. Um, you know, the. The. The lost alliance is the broken promises because of his kids marital choices. And they're like, well, you married for love, so I'm gonna do whatever I want. He's like, I didn't think I was gonna be like in this position when I did that. Yeah, but you guys are in a different spot. We've already talked about Duncan and Jenny and in a prior book spoiler section, Lionel and the broken betrothal. And. And the eventual Baratheon. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Showdown between the laughing storm and Dong.

[Joanna Robinson]

So if we get to that season and we get. But did you. Did you see what Ira said about the ages. Yeah. I mean, he said about taking time off. I don't think HBO will let him do that. And I also like, is hbo.

[Mallory Rubin]

Casey's out there giving Deadline interviews like every year. Every year we're making this show. So those things feel in conflict with each other.

[Joanna Robinson]

I know, but basically Ira Parker was saying he wants to make the TV version of Boyhood where he's just gonna like track the age of the actors as they grow.

[Mallory Rubin]

I mean, I think that they can get Dexter as Egg to a Blackwood wedding. That can definitely happen. 2:59 a.c. summer Hall. When we're in 209ac. They just have to really radically move things up. And then you just. I think you create problems because random Rhaegar has to be born there. And then that the timeline for established show canon just doesn't make sense. They can only move Summerhall. So far, Rhaegar is born.

[Joanna Robinson]

I agree with it.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's. I like the idea of. I mean, I love Boyhood.

[Joanna Robinson]

No, it's a great idea. And it's also probably something that George is like, yes, let's do that. The same way that George is like.

[Mallory Rubin]

George is like, I have more time to write my. My novellas.

[Joanna Robinson]

And also George is like every. We should do every final like episode of Game of Thrones should be a movie in the theater. You know, like, George's has a lot of grand ideas.

[Mallory Rubin]

I mean, it's a fun thing to think of about. I don't know if it's possible. I love this world of ice and fire quote about Egg's kids. His grace had failed to account for the willfulness of his own blood. How perfect, right? How perfect. He's like, I don't like incest. Couple of his kids are going to marry each other without his blessing. Yeah, exactly. His. You know, Aegon is more than than half a a peasant. This is like a recurring refrain in his section of world and ice and fire. This look like thing that certain members of the realm hold against him right in the great council and and beyond. Though beloved by the small folk, king Aegon made many enemies amongst the lord of the realms whose powers he wished to curtail. As you noted, this reformer king, like, of course that's unpopular. And so the thing that like Dunk he believes is. Or your guy, young Griff from earlier in the pod. This is like virtuous. I have a exposure to. I have lived among the people I am ruling. And so I will create a realm that is a better place for them. And then all of the rich Bros in their castles are like, actually, we don't like you now, like, all of that tracks perfectly with the characters and also just the flow of history. But this pursuit of dragons and that, like, to the all. The all part in this prophecy, like world of ice and fire, Aegon the fifth was oft heard to say that had he only dragons as the first Aegon had, he could have remade the realm anew with peace and prosperity and justice for all. Now, we love egg, but any. I could just remake it. I could remake it anew if I just had more power. And a weapon of mass destruction is very frequently something that we associate with a villain. And we don't think of Aegon as a villain, but this is a. They're laying track here for something really dark that is pretty compelling to think about getting to see, but very tragic.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's so interesting because, like, watching, watching to bring industry back. I've been thinking a lot about the way in which they bungled Daenerys arc. When I'm thinking of someone like Yasmin on Industry, which is just sort of like, Yasmin didn't start. If you're not watching industry, it doesn't really matter. But the point is they're really nailing this arc of this character with believable trauma that lead her to make increasingly hard to root for decisions. You know what I mean? And when we meet her in season one, she's making bad decisions, but it's easier to root for her. It's just like an incremental intention movement of a character along an arc where Daenerys felt like, here are the bells. I'm just gonna torch all of my character development or whatever the case may be. And so, like, if. If we have this to track for with Aegon, there's. There's a potential here for something. I mean, it's the tragedy of Summerhall.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

And the tragedy of Summerhall is all these people die. But also, like, the tragedy is a losing his way. We love being the architect of this tragic event.

[Mallory Rubin]

I'm excited.

[Joanna Robinson]

I really, I really.

[Mallory Rubin]

I mean, we love a tragic fall, and especially one that is rooted in an initial good intention. The idea of a life of honor and virtue and seeking to actually give a shit about somebody else's circumstance and perspective leading to this outcome is so delicious. In just the next couple seasons, based on Sworn Sword and Mystery Night Nolla canon, I mean, we are not going to have to wait long. We get like quotes of Mystery Night of Egg, you know, because of course, the egg at White Walls, the literal dragon egg at White Walls and Jon the Fiddler Daemon ii. We get like passages where Egg is talking about Darren's dreams. Dreams so that that's we're going to be ratcheting this up in just the next couple seasons and starting to lay the track for this. What becomes an obsession. Aegon V, this is also from World of Ice and Fire had come to dream of dragons flying once more above the Seven Kingdoms of Westeros. There are other passages that I don't have here, but where it spells out that he's like sending people to Assai. You know, he's, he is hunting for these things in this he was not unlike his predecessors who brought septons to pray over the last eggs, mages to work spells over them and maesters to pour over them. Though friends and counselors sought to dissuade him. Though friends and counselors sought to dissuade him. So that was what really caught my eye of like how many of the people who loved him most were closed closest to her. Like, don't do this thing. Don't do this.

[Joanna Robinson]

Can you imagine a scene where Duncan's like, don't do this thing.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. And I feel like Mystery Night with the Egg as a prize is going to be a really rich text to start introducing some of these ideas. Early King Aegon grew ever more convinced that only with dragons would he ever wield sufficient power to make the changes he wished to make in the realm. Proud and stubborn lords of Seven Kingdoms to accept his decrees. So where does it tip? Where does it tip? From nobility of intention into you will heed me like, oh my God, I'm, I'm excited for this, but it's going to be hard. It's going to be hard to watch. I really can't wait for this though.

[Joanna Robinson]

Can I have this camera? Ted Saranda. Ted Saranda, I know you recently, I think like testified in front of a committee, judiciary committee, whatever, that you would honor a 45 day theatrical window should you take over Warner Brothers and have charge of their films. And I, and I'm sure Shawn and Amanda, for whom the studio is home, rejoiced. I would like you to also swear that you will give us 13 seasons of dunk and Egg of the Night of the Seven Kingdoms. And then we get to go to Summerhall because I would be so devastated if we get all of this and then we don't get to go to Summerhall, which like George has been so. Thank you so much. George has been like, so he's guarded A lot of the Summer hall information. I mean, because he really wanted to be the one to write it. And, like, that's not gonna happen.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's sad that this is happening again, but we do need this. We need this canon. I mean, Rhaegar is gonna be born there.

[Joanna Robinson]

We deserve this. Okay. On the Dunk side.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. What did you make of this?

[Joanna Robinson]

One of my favorite theories. That comes from. 3 hours, 15 minutes.

[Mallory Rubin]

You shall know great success and be richer than a Lannister.

[Joanna Robinson]

Friend of the Pod.

[Mallory Rubin]

Hit me.

[Joanna Robinson]

History of Westeros's Ashaya started at nine. Lady Rohan Weber.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Who we will meet next season.

[Mallory Rubin]

I can't wait. Yeah, that's better.

[Joanna Robinson]

Canonically.

[Mallory Rubin]

He grabs her brain and they kiss.

[Joanna Robinson]

Definitely. Okay.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, they are. I think he was actually drawn.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think he wants to kiss Tanzel. I think he.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, yeah. He's dreaming of her tits.

[Joanna Robinson]

Has sex with Lady.

[Mallory Rubin]

A lot of lust between those two.

[Joanna Robinson]

Who does she marry? Gerald Lannister. What happens in 238?

[Mallory Rubin]

A lot of marriage just for her.

[Joanna Robinson]

230 AC. She disappears mysteriously. Does she run off with Dunk? In the words of Asha, does he cuck a lan. And in that way, he is richer than alter.

[Mallory Rubin]

I love it.

[Joanna Robinson]

It would be great theory, but also, like, you know, Tarth. Like, you know, you know, our lands bequeathed to him. Is he richer than a Lannister? Literally. Is he richer than a Lannister? In friends, in honor, in glory, in whatever. Prophecies can be tricksy. But I love the idea. I mean, just the phrase, he's gonna cuck a Lannister was really funny. So I enjoyed it.

[Mallory Rubin]

Great stuff.

[Joanna Robinson]

I love it.

[Mallory Rubin]

Can't wait to see Dunk have sex in future seasons.

[Joanna Robinson]

I really think it's gonna happen in season two.

[Mallory Rubin]

It would be wonderful. I would be thrilled. Absolutely. I just can't wait for this casting to be announced.

[Joanna Robinson]

The grabbing of her braid is like.

[Mallory Rubin]

A really important moment in very powerful literary history. Very powerful. On the Eamon and Egg front, let's. Let's hit the whole kill the boy exchange. This is from the text. Egg had an innocence to him, a sweetness we all loved. Kill the boy within you. I told him the day I took ship for the wall, it takes a man to rule an Egon, not an egg. Kill the boy and let the man be born. And then he's saying to John, you are half the age that Egg was, and your own burden is a cruel one. I fear you will have little joy of your command. But I think you did you solo. I think you have to strengthen you to do the things that must be done. Kill the boy. Jon Snow. Winter is almost upon us. Kill the boy. And let the man be born. Kill the boy. One of the most famous Jon Thrones moments. This direct eye to egg and this.

[Joanna Robinson]

The mad King Aegon to be born.

[Mallory Rubin]

Suppress this innocence and this joy and this wonder and this jolly fellow because this other thing is necessary. And then where does that lead? This was harrowing, really harrowing to see this, like, puzzle start to all stitch together. What else on the match fixing at White Walls Front and Mystery Night. One of my favorite passages from that third novella is Fireball son Glendon Flowers, who does not accept the offer. Right. To fix the match, they need John the Fiddler Damon to win so that he can get this egg. That is Gorman Peak's plot. Elsewhere, Dunk is exposed to the idea that Uther was like, someone paid me to try to kill you. Like, there's all sorts of nefarious shit happening. He basically is like, come on the road with me and you can just be my patsy. You can lose every joust and it'll take everyone so long to figure out what we're up to. We'll make a killing. Right. This is like a big part of the third novella. But Glyndon Flower specifically saying, my father died for his. I would have been his man and glad badly I would have fought for him, killed for him, died for him, but I could not lose for him.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's so good.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's such a banger and such an incredible moment where Dunk is like, yeah, there is something. There's a shared currency between us of, like, why we do what we do. So I love that.

[Joanna Robinson]

Robin Riesling. Riesling. Okay, so here are the six that will ride with Duncan. Right. Robin. Who we now have some information about.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

That Robin. Robin Reisling is like so infested by the spirit of the warrior that he's like to all then. You know what I mean? Like, he's like, let's just do it. Right. Okay. Lionel Baratheon loves a fight.

[Mallory Rubin]

Miss this.

[Joanna Robinson]

Raymond Fosseway. Incestuous aliens. I'll ride with you.

[Mallory Rubin]

Right.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay. Night me now, Baylor. We get it. Where is the. Where's the character development? Humphreys got a bone to pick. A shattered leg bone to pick, you know, Humphrey Harding has a shattered leg bone to pick. Right. But like, bees. I got bees.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's just because he's my brother in law.

[Joanna Robinson]

We deserve a scene. I know. With Humphrey Beesbury.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, it's it that would have been helpful.

[Joanna Robinson]

This is for sure.

[Mallory Rubin]

You were robbed.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay.

[Mallory Rubin]

You were robbed.

[Joanna Robinson]

You were on the seven theory. Yeah. This person posited that Dunk himself is the personification of the stranger who brings death.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Any other, like spoilery sort of assignments you wanted to make?

[Mallory Rubin]

I think just in general, the presence of the stranger because of the, you know, Balor's death and this, like.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. But was it Dunk who brought death here?

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, he certainly thinks so. Right? He says when he. And yeah. Darren, of course, the dragon dream that we'll get from Darren in the neck and, you know, the next stretch of story. But then in the. At the end of this novella, like this conversation that Duncan Maker will have, Mika or is like, people are always going to say, I did this thing. They're always going to say it. And Dunk's like, I carried the blame too. And Maker's like, correct. Like, he doesn't try to talk him out of it. He's like, yeah, they'll always say it about you too. You know, and this idea that plagues Dunk of like, my foot, you know, what was this foot worth? Could it have been worth a prince's life?

[Joanna Robinson]

Prince's life. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So Duncan. Duncan as the stranger in this 7 makeup here. Fun, fun theory.

[Mallory Rubin]

Great show.

[Joanna Robinson]

Hobbits and [e-mail]. if you have other thoughts about that, about the seventh theory or anything else.

[Mallory Rubin]

I'm excited for episodes or how we.

[Joanna Robinson]

Get Ted Sarandos to promise us 13 seasons. Animation, movie and a summer hall movie.

[Mallory Rubin]

I mean, to be fair, all 13 seasons are basically gonna be movies and a movie. So a 14th season. We did it. We're halfway through A Knight of the Seven Kingdom Season 1. Sad. Don't want it to end.

[Joanna Robinson]

The movie's just called Summerhall.

[Mallory Rubin]

That'll be great. That'll be great.

[Joanna Robinson]

Except it's gonna be Game of Thrones presents A Night of the Seven Kingdom. Colton Summerhall.

[Mallory Rubin]

The tragedy at Summerhall.

[Joanna Robinson]

Tragedy. Trashy.

[Mallory Rubin]

In Summer, A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms story coming this winter.

[Joanna Robinson]

Summer Hall.

[Mallory Rubin]

Summer is coming.

[Joanna Robinson]

Spring is coming. This winter at Summer Hall.

[Mallory Rubin]

I can see it all on a poster. Think of the popcorn bucket. All right.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's just somebody smoldering corpse that you're eating popcorn out of.

[Mallory Rubin]

What about the dragon helm? That would be a great poke.

[Joanna Robinson]

Dragon Hill. That'd be great. Yeah, but we're in season 1313 at this point. Like we.

[Mallory Rubin]

I know, but he's gotta add something.

[Joanna Robinson]

But it doesn't mean aged Crohn's our very selves.

[Mallory Rubin]

We will be at some point, though, if we're doing 13 seasons, I mean, we're getting the Great Council egg is gonna be selected. We. I mean, sure, Arian's gonna be shipped off to Lys, but at some point we're gonna get this fucker drinking wildfire and dying.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's gonna be great.

[Mallory Rubin]

So that's exciting.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

I can't wait for that. All right. Thank you. Thank you you to Wart.

[Joanna Robinson]

Hey, hey. Thank you to Alice. Thank you to Alice and her entire as a twin.

[Mallory Rubin]

Thank you the hammer and the anvil.

[Joanna Robinson]

And all the vanity doorsmen that were involved.

[Mallory Rubin]

Real team effort today. Thank you to our crew. Carlos Chiraboga as always here with us early hours and hours at the crack of dawn on Arjuna. Remy Capell, Jomia Deneran, as always. And thank you to Sarah Reddy once again for helping us out today. Join us again on Friday or whenever, whenever you watch the next episode over the weekend. Talk the Thrones will be waiting for you in your feeds and on the Ringerverse YouTube channel after episode four. And then we will be back with our episode four deep dive next Tuesday evening.

[Joanna Robinson]

As per usual.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's been Wednesday too out of the first three weeks. But in theory, my father up both times in theory, as per ush until then, goodbye.