‘A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms’ Episode 4 Reactions | Talk the Thrones

Summary

Podcast Summary: House of R | ‘A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms’ Episode 4 Reactions | Talk the Thrones

Date: February 6, 2026
Hosts: Joanna Robinson, Mallory Rubin, Chris Ryan
Episode: Talk the Thrones - Reaction to Episode 4 of “A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms” (HBO adaptation)

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Main Theme and Purpose

This episode features a spirited, insightful, and often humorous analysis of Episode 4 (“Trial by Seven”) of HBO’s A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms, based on George R.R. Martin’s novellas. Joanna, Mallory, and Chris break down the episode’s crucial moments, character arcs, and adaptive choices—especially centering on the much-anticipated Trial by Seven. They evaluate the episode’s successes and compare it to the source material, spotlighting storytelling choices, performances, and the enduring power of legend, honor, and prophecy in Westeros.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Recap and Setting the Stage

(02:27 – 05:38)

• Chris offers a fast-paced episode recap, highlighting Dunk’s imprisonment, Egg’s honesty, and Daeron’s dream.
• The plot revolves around Dunk’s impending death sentence and his opportunity for trial by seven, which rapidly heads toward the rousing showdown.
• Recap combines humor and references to sports (e.g., March Madness and James Harden), establishing the episode’s playful tone.

2. Favorite Moments and Direction

(07:38 – 09:12)

• Mallory: Picks Baelor’s arrival for Dunk as “an iconic moment in the canon”— likening it to Oberyn Martell’s champion scene.
  • “How could it not be my favorite character? Baelor Breakspear riding in to be a first ballot inductee into the Oberyn Martell I will be your champion hall of fame.” (07:41)
• Joanna: Treasures the opening dungeon shot, which visually parallels stars transforming into the dungeon ceiling—calling out director Sarah Adina Smith’s impactful visual storytelling.
  • “The visual language has really kicked up in the last two episodes.” (08:55)
• Chris: Relishes Aryan’s “crushing nuts,” loving the bylaw loophole and Targaryen family antics.
  • “I loved him going deep into the bylaws... hiding behind some, like, ancient Andal bullshit.” (09:47)

3. Targaryen Family Dynamics and Daeron’s Dream

(10:22 – 19:52)

• Family Inferiority: Maekar’s rivalry and tension with brothers and sons, especially around honor and legacy.
• Daeron’s Performance: Henry Ashton’s portrayal as Daeron is praised for physical delivery, cementing the character as deeply troubled by dreams and prophecy.
• Aryan’s Tyranny: Aryan’s overreaction is challenged—Joanna frames him as a would-be tyrant reacting more from hurt pride than genuine threat:
  • “On the contrary, it's like, I'm just asking questions.” (13:20)
• Prophecy as a Curse: Daeron is emblematic of the “dreamer’s burden” in Targaryen history:
  • “This idea of being a dreamer is a curse.” (17:37)
• Adaptive Magic: Relief that showrunner Ira Parker kept prophecy and dreams intact, respecting book tradition.

4. Adaptation Choices – Team Dunk and Team Aryan

(21:34 – 26:42)

• The adaptation goes deeper on knights of both teams, developing supporting players (Lionel Baratheon, Raymond Fossoway) far more than the text for added dramatic heft.
• Stefan Fossoway’s betrayal (switching teams) is framed as social climbing and self-interest, contrasting Dunk’s principled character vs. Stefan’s naked ambition:
  • “He’s such a contrast in every respect to the humble nobility of Dunk.” (24:13)
• The Fossoways’ social background—temporarily embarrassed head of house—gets regional color with casting and accent choices.

5. Speech, Honor, and Knightly Vows

(25:50 – 28:48)

• Dunk’s big rallying speech mostly falls on deaf ears, reflecting the realm’s general cynicism and the “hollowness of most knights of the realm.”
• Steely Pate and other background characters, who gradually grow to respect Dunk, embody the “true knightly ideal” in their actions, not their words.
• Joanna and Mallory emphasize the importance of small, earnest acts over grand gestures.

6. Dunk’s Secret – Is He Really a Knight?

(31:49 – 33:30)

• The podcast parses the subtle hints that Dunk has not truly been knighted—a running theme in the books and leaned into by the show.
  • “Any knight can make a knight. And he’s like, I’m not a knight, so I can’t do this.” (32:08, Joanna)
• This dramatic irony is preserved for both new and book audiences, keeping faith with the novella’s themes.

7. Trial by Seven and Its Place in Westerosi Tradition

(33:33 – 35:33)

• Clear distinction is made between this ancient group combat trial and the more familiar trial by combat.
• The novelty and rarity of the Trial by Seven add stakes—both in the diegetic world and for the viewer, raising the question of who will stand by you when it matters.

8. Character Moments and Emotional Touchstones

(36:00 – 39:23)

• Comic or sweet beats, such as Dunk befriending a rat or Egg’s recruitment efforts, add texture and levity.
• Baelor’s willingness to learn from Dunk and take action on principle, not just out of personal allegiance, is lauded as a “genuinely the best” example of Targaryen nobility.

9. Comparisons to Other Thrones Moments

(39:23 – 39:56)

• Baelor’s move is contrasted with Oberyn Martell’s champion moment:
  • “What Baelor does here is more noble, no question. [Oberyn’s] is driven by personal vengeance... That’s not what Baelor is doing here.” (39:56, Mallory)
• Dunk and Egg’s mutual learning recalls the larger themes of passed-down honor and “remembering your vows.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Mallory on Baelor’s arrival (07:41):
  “How could it not be my favorite character? Baelor Breakspear riding in to be a first ballot inductee into the Oberyn Martell I will be your champion hall of fame.”
• Joanna on visual language (08:55):
  “I think the visual language has really kicked up in the last two episodes and I think this one has a lot going for it in that way.”
• Chris on Aryan’s bylaw antics (09:47):
  “I loved him going deep into the bylaws to be like, well, if you’re going to make me do this, then I’m going to make him do this.”
• Joanna on Aryan’s motivation (13:20):
  “On the contrary, it’s like, I’m just asking questions.”
• Mallory on prophecy’s burden (17:37):
  “This idea of being a dreamer is a curse.”
• Mallory on Stefan Fossoway (24:13):
  “He’s such a contrast in every respect to the humble nobility of Dunk.”
• Joanna on knightly integrity (33:40):
  “Which is like the hollowness of most of the knights of the realm and the true honor of your dunks or your Raymonds or your Baelors…”
• Mallory on what makes a team (22:57):
  “The work that this show did to make all of these characters, the team, an actual team that we’re excited about.”
• Joanna on Dunk not knighting Raymond (32:08):
  “Any knight can make a knight. And he’s like, I’m not a knight, so I can’t do this. And then Lionel’s like, don’t worry, I got you.”
• Mallory on Baelor’s nobility (39:56):
  “What Baelor does here is more noble, no question. [Oberyn’s] is driven by personal vengeance... That’s not what Baelor is doing here. He’s like, what is right? And Dunk has helped him see that.”

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Important Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment & Topic | |-----------|----------------------------------| | 02:27 | Chris’s rapid-fire episode recap | | 07:38 | Hosts’ favorite episode moments | | 13:20 | Aryan’s motivations debated | | 17:37 | Burden of prophecy for Targaryens| | 22:57 | Expanding Dunk’s side for TV | | 25:50 | Knightly values and Dunk’s speech| | 31:49 | The truth about Dunk’s knighthood| | 33:33 | Trial by Seven explained | | 39:23 | Contrasting Baelor & Oberyn |

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Overall Tone & Takeaways

The episode is both deeply analytical and joyfully irreverent, blending “nerd deep dive” energy with warmth, delight at book-to-screen adaptation successes, and open respect for the characters’ emotional journeys. Joanna, Mallory, and Chris foreground the show’s emphasis on small acts of honor and the tension between cynicism and hope—reminding listeners that true knighthood is about action and principle more than title.

For fans and newcomers alike, this episode delivers:

• A thorough walkthrough of plot and characters
• Lively host banter
• Contextual grounding in lore and adaptation choices
• Emotional, thematic, and storytelling analysis
• A roadmap for essential moments and “what to watch for next”

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“This is Duncan the Tall remembers.” — Joanna Robinson (25:50)

“The idea of a person in power in this family, in this realm who could try to do the right thing. How truly, truly rare.” — Mallory Rubin (40:15)

Transcript

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[Chris Ryan]

Hello and welcome to Talk the Thrones. I'm Chris Ryan. I am an [e-mail] joining me in the studio is Joanna Robinson and she's only here to kick ass and crush walnuts. And she's all out of walnuts. It's Mallory Rubin. We are here to break down seven, which in fact is the fourth episode of A Night of the Seven Kingdoms. And we shall do so right after this. Hello, everyone.

[Joanna Robinson]

Hi.

[Chris Ryan]

I'm here with Mal and Joe who do House of R. That's right. Which is where this podcast is hosted.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's true.

[Chris Ryan]

Although you know what? It's just. It's out there.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's out there.

[Chris Ryan]

Call it what you want for the people. You can watch us on the Ringerverse YouTube channel. You can watch us on Spotify, where I hope you're listening to us. You can listen to Mal and Joe break down these episodes in great detail. Loving. Great detail. I didn't say that I would. And you can listen to Andy and I cursorily don't discuss it, I think. But you know, every once in a while we.

[Mallory Rubin]

Everyone's participating in a shared conversation. It's wonderful.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

You. It comes in all sizes. So the watch House of R. But what we're doing here is Talk the Thrones.

[Mallory Rubin]

That's right.

[Chris Ryan]

Why don't we do the recap of this lovely little episodes of tv.

[Mallory Rubin]

I can't wait for this.

[Joanna Robinson]

I did myself a favor and I Didn't pre read the recap. I read like the first two sentences.

[Chris Ryan]

I want to react here.

[Mallory Rubin]

I'm going to sat down to type it. Did you say to yourself one need not intend harm to do it?

[Chris Ryan]

I didn't.

[Mallory Rubin]

Okay.

[Chris Ryan]

No.

[Mallory Rubin]

Something to think about.

[Chris Ryan]

Do you feel like his recon is.

[Mallory Rubin]

Going to do harm to me? No need not intend it. Seven out.

[Joanna Robinson]

Let's go.

[Chris Ryan]

They got my boy Dunk locked up. Free Dunk. That's exactly what Egg thinks. But the prince can only do so much. So in the absence of freedom, he offers Dunk some good old fashioned honesty. Aegon was supposed to squire for his brother Darren, but Darren's scouting report is apparently quote shit knight and quote Dunk drunk. And he didn't want to get tooled up in the tournament so he shaved his little brother's head. And the plan was to hide out in an inn until after March Madness. But Egg wanted to see some action. So here we are. Dunk is hauled in front of Balor to explain himself. But Balor does most of the explaining, painting a picture of highborn like Darren and especially Aryan twisting narratives to escape blame and to oppress others. Duncan asks perhaps the central question of this series. Don't all knights make the same oath? Balar offers Dunk a pathway to avoiding the death pen trial by combat. Unfortunately, Aryan has been deep in the Andals collective bargaining agreement. Encounters with a demand for trial by satisfaction 7 meaning dunk has to raves a band of brothers to fight with him. His prospects look dim until Steph Foss away is like it. Let's play some cards. Dunk has a surprise meeting with some targ brothers. Egg and a sheepish but not exactly apologetic Darren. And here's all about how Aryan is a sadist who thinks he's actually a dragon and he's not very nice to small animals or bigger ones come to think of it. We go back to our horse problem.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, we.

[Chris Ryan]

Darren also tells Dunk about a dream that we'll get into later and expresses his desire not to die. Dunk's luck starts to turn when he is gifted some new sick armor from Steely Pate, including a new shield painted by Tanzel before she had her fingers broken. Things really start looking up when on the morning of his trial he finds a bunch of knights to sign on to help him, including a guy with a broken leg, crazy Sir Robin with one eye and Ser Lionel Baratheon who's just there for the memories.

[Mallory Rubin]

Couldn't even mention Beesbury. Not even.

[Chris Ryan]

But I honestly like they didn't really go.

[Joanna Robinson]

Doesn't even get a line in this episode.

[Chris Ryan]

Unfortunately, all winning streaks must come to an end and Dunk finds out Sir Stefan has pulled a James Harden and demanded a trade to Aran's side. Duncan now needs two Knights or he must forfeit.

[Joanna Robinson]

I'm sorry, I'm just so excited because I understand that reference podcast with Rob Mahoney.

[Chris Ryan]

He picks up one where Raymond Fossil goes pro with a late breaking knighting. And then after pleading with the crowd and getting laughed at for his trouble. Do you believe in miracles? Balor comes running out of the mist to join Dunk's side. Ladies and gentlemen, let's get ready to rumble.

[Joanna Robinson]

Are you. Are you excited? First of all, that was an incredible live experience for me. Secondly, are you excited for the miracle? The the Netflix doc?

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, I'm pretty well versed in that.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. You know, they can't tell you anything.

[Chris Ryan]

You don't already know, but I haven't gotten to like my zag point because some people are like, oh, actually the Russians weren't really trying or whatever. It's like, I just think that's pure, pure magic right there. The speech, the fact that they did it.

[Mallory Rubin]

Al Michaels Talk about pure magic. This recap the singers aren't going to have time to pen any tunes about the Trial of Seven. They're going to be too busy ready.

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[Mallory Rubin]

This episode is.

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[Chris Ryan]

Your recap what was your favorite moment of the episode?

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, no question. It's how could it not be my favorite character? Baylor Breakspear riding in to be a first ballad inductee into the Ober and Martel I will be your champion hall of fame. Obviously some differences that we'll discuss but it's an iconic moment in the season, it's an iconic moment in the novella. It's an iconic moment in the canon and I was thrilled to see it.

[Chris Ryan]

Brought to screen in a novella. Are you like, oh, oh yeah, yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

And he's wearing someone else's armor. So at first you're like what's happening? Oh really? His son's wearing his son's armor.

[Chris Ryan]

Not what he said. Yeah, right. Valar who Aryan was like, I'm gonna you.

[Mallory Rubin]

Exactly. Yeah. Just so you could get a nice long look at his armor.

[Chris Ryan]

Did you have a similar reaction favorite moment of the episod?

[Joanna Robinson]

Um, I have a different favorite moment but I, I did text Mallory this morning because we, we were watching week to week on screeners. First of all, I accidentally this morning maxed out my screener views for this episode. I rewatched it so many times because I loved it so much. Secondly, I texted Mallory, I was like, oh, Raymond Fossaway's getting ignited. I'm crying. Oh, here comes Baelor. I'm crying. I literally cried twice watching it this morning. That being said, the opening shot, which is the shot of the dungeon ceiling which at first it looks like stars constellation and then as the light comes in, you see that he's like, no under the stars, you know, and his like his luck has changed and now he's under a ceiling and it's just like a visual. I, we, we talked a lot on the deep dive about Sarah Adina Smith, who's the director of last week's and this week's and the finale episode. I think the visual language has really kicked up in the last two episodes and I think this one has a lot going for it in that way.

[Chris Ryan]

A lot of humor in the sort of in some of the like the framing or just in the compositions. Like maybe not textually humor but like she finds some humor in it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And maybe no more so than my guy Aryan crushing nuts, which was my favorite part.

[Mallory Rubin]

You are Nothing if not on brand. And we love that about you. Is it because.

[Joanna Robinson]

Is it because you also enjoy the pursuit of an Omega 3? Or how do you feel?

[Mallory Rubin]

It's a nice soft knot. Just a tooth injury, you know, like.

[Chris Ryan]

Pick it up to the other guy. I loved him going deep into the bylaws to be like, well, if you're going to make me do this, then I'm going to make him do this.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And I loved make. Our reaction was just like, are you fudgeing? Hiding behind some, like, ancient Andal bullshit?

[Joanna Robinson]

No.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes, definitely, I'm afraid, because he just kicked my ass.

[Joanna Robinson]

He's very tall.

[Mallory Rubin]

Ascending Ashford under the table to pick up the walnut. Real shades of Aegon II and Hot D. Bringing his kid Jaehaerys to the small council and then being like, Thailand, give him a pony ride.

[Joanna Robinson]

You weren't thinking about Rickon Stark and his approach to nut nutcracking?

[Mallory Rubin]

I was thinking of the walnuts with our Stark boys for sure. Always.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. That was my favorite moment.

[Mallory Rubin]

Just because this is my favorite episode of season.

[Chris Ryan]

I think you got to see the dynamic of the Targaryens in a very interesting.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, yeah. To have Baelor and Arian and Maekar. Maekar be like, well, if the Andals said it, you know.

[Mallory Rubin]

And we get, of course, time with Daeron, his eldest son. So getting to see how, you know, we talked earlier in the season about Maekar's inferiority conflicts with his brother. You know, in episode two when we watch them interact and the ugh and the pouting to see how that inferiority complex extends to his sons.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

What a bunch of clowns.

[Joanna Robinson]

I. You. You watch My Lady Jane, right?

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

So Henry Ashton, who plays Darren, was like Stan Dudley on My Lady Jane. He was so good on that show. And I just like, I thought he made a whole meal out of his opportunity here.

[Chris Ryan]

He was fantastic. I did want to talk a little bit about not is Arian right or anything like that. We're not playing around two weeks in a row.

[Mallory Rubin]

Okay.

[Joanna Robinson]

Team Green, Chris.

[Chris Ryan]

I am learning about the history, historical context of this moment through you two. Rather than reading the books or doing any spoiling on Wikipedia or. Or what is it? A Song of Ice and Pedia or whatever it is. Aryan sensitivity to rebellion. So his idea is basically like through the arts, that they're expressing their dissatisfaction with our rule.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And that we let one lady have a little fun with a dragon puppet and the next thing you know, the entire realm. Chaos in the streets.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

My question to you Joe. Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Did Aaron have some points?

[Chris Ryan]

Did Arian have a point? Is it coming off of. Because you guys keep mentioning blackfire rebellion.

[Mallory Rubin]

Sure, yeah.

[LifeLock Ad Reader]

Plural.

[Chris Ryan]

Right.

[Joanna Robinson]

Well. Well, so far one.

[Chris Ryan]

There will be more. Is Aryan kind of like, hey, keep an eye out because these people are not happy with us and we have to keep it. Keep it tight.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's a great messaging. And if you want to like Caroline Lovett this whole thing for them department, fine. But that's not why he is throwing it.

[Chris Ryan]

Flame has done nothing but help this realm.

[Mallory Rubin]

Bright prince brightens our days.

[Chris Ryan]

Lamestream media tells you that Aryan has no interest in uncanny.

[Joanna Robinson]

Love that.

[Mallory Rubin]

Are you lighting as Aryan's comms guy after spending most of your days with tender in their comps department or I. How are you spending your time?

[Joanna Robinson]

I think, does Arian have a point? Is a real great question from you, Chris. And I would say no if he wants to. Sort of. If he wanted to drop a few more blackfyre mentions here to really shore up his. His plausible deniability, he could have. But he threw a tantrum.

[Chris Ryan]

This is his sensitivity, you know, and he.

[Joanna Robinson]

And he was. And he was throwing a tantrum because he was already embarrassed after the tourney. He was like, look what I did. I killed a horse. Isn't it great? And his dad, his uncle made him give back like, you know, all the money and give a different horse to that guy. So like he's already been sort of had the rolled up newspaper smacked on his nose and then he sees the dragon puppet and he saw red and he lost his shit. And so I don't think this is a measured response to anything. And I think in the. On the contrary, it's like, I'm just asking questions.

[Chris Ryan]

You don't learn anything unless you ask. Right.

[Joanna Robinson]

On the contrary. Baelor's intention, which is like, hey, let's be cool, calm, collected, sensible Targaryen leaders. That's, that's, I think, how you don't foment rebellion in front of your people.

[Chris Ryan]

There's no like, just forgiving this. Like, he knows that there has to be some kind of like, resolution to this conflict. There are public witnesses to. To dunk be they were embarrassed.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, yeah. I think that Aryan could make that case. But he did as much ultimately to foment dissent and incite revolt as we hear as anybody else. More than anybody else, ultimately. And when we go through the roster of knights who ultimately side with Donk, it's interesting to think about all of their respective motivations. It's not a Group of people gathering together to say, I want to challenge the Targaryens. That's not what's going on for every single person who's assembled there. That said, I do think you're right that as we've talked about all season, the Blackfyre rebellion is in the air in an inescapable way. The fact that the Targaryens don't have dragons is in the air in an inescapable way. One of the things that Darren says. I'm excited to talk more about the dream that he shares, but we were Dragon Masters once. Hard to believe when Dunk is like, the Dragon House does not look kindly on those who oppose them. Stefan, not the guy. We're looking too much like Aryan for wisdom and counsel. But he is right to say dragon House. Where are their dragons, Sir Duncan. Like, it's a ripe moment for challenge. I thought that the Blackfyre rebellion was even in the air, as was the Dance of the dragons when Baelor has that, like, electric moment. Aerion is your brother. And the septons say, we must love our brothers. He says that to Aegon after he's.

[Chris Ryan]

Like, I wish he'd killed him.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. And we talked a lot on the deep dive this past week about, you know, this classic hot D idea no man is as a curse as the kinslayer. Like, the idea of watching the Targaryens tear each other down from inside the family has been the plight of the dynasty. And so it's fueling everybody's anxiety to some extent.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. So to rec. Aryan had some great points.

[Chris Ryan]

I didn't say that.

[Joanna Robinson]

Stefan Fossilway had some great points. Is that where the table's sitting right now?

[Chris Ryan]

Can you see that Aryan is coming?

[Mallory Rubin]

Exchange of ideas.

[Chris Ryan]

Do you know the thing, it's funny, is that for as much as I love Balor, I love the performance of Baylor, he already is killing it. He's great in it. His solution to this was, you should have come to Aegon. He's like, you should have come to me.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

If he was a brutalizing Tanzel and I could have done something about it, he's like, she would have been dead by then. So, like, your ideas, like, your idea of, like, the proper chain of. Of command here.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Still would have resulted in an innocent person dying. And it's like, that's why he went to Dunk, to stop it. So why don't we talk a little bit about Darren's dream? Because I think this would probably be very exciting, not forgotten or gone. I Mean, I'm sure you guys won't forget it, but, like, it is a sweet summer child over here just watching it. You're just like, oh, another dream in Game of Thrones, you know, like, these guys, they fire these off a lot. What's he talking about? How.

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, so we talked about this a little bit on the deep dive. That one of the most delightful things that George does in his when he talks about dreaming or prophecy is present riddles, Right?

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

So we get a riddle here about a dragon whose wings spread across the meadow and falling on top of Duncan and all that sort of stuff like that we people who are reading, who are watching can guess because it could mean any number of things. And then we'll find out in due time what it means. But I guess we can't. We would not want to talk about that now. But I will say we talked about Darren the drunken. This guy who I love. Like, in the book, they describe him having a sheen of sweat and basically, like, the details, like, his hands are shaking. So I love the makeup that they put on this guy. I love the wig work. He just, like, looks completely miserable.

[Chris Ryan]

I love that he's like, just hit me in the head pretty hard.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Don't try to be gallant on the first chart.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Don't make it ring too loudly. But we talked about him in season one of House of the Dragon when Viserys was drunk at the hunt and talking to Alicent about his dreams in front of that big bonfire in the hunt episode. And just the burden of being a dreamer, like, how much it weighed on Viserys. Daenerys Targaryen had dragon dreams that weighed on her.

[Mallory Rubin]

Sure did. You know, even some of the identical, like, my dreams come true language from Dany and Darren here.

[Joanna Robinson]

So, like, this idea of being a dreamer is a. Is a curse.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. And for now, as sort of street level as this show is, this is successive episodes where they had the fortune teller the previous episode. Now we have Darren dreaming. So there is some sort of connection to the past and the future and the more magical elements of this show or this world express to the show.

[Mallory Rubin]

I. When we did the trailer breakdowns and we were talking about some of like, the Comic Con panels and the press around the show, Joe had to, like, pull me back off the ledge because the. I was so excited for the show. The one thing that gave me anxiety was Ira Parker, who I think has done a fantastic job showrunning and bringing this adaptation to life, was like, this is not magic. And I was like, what about. Oh, my God, they're not gonna skip Darren's dream, are they? In, like, this whole energy, which is so crucial across to your point. Targ history and the target line. And Joe was like, it's definitely gonna be there. Like, it's okay. And then I calmed down and it was fine. And now here we are.

[Joanna Robinson]

And I'm thrilled.

[Mallory Rubin]

But the, like, the. That. To that Viserys point, you know, the thing he says, like, like, what is the power of a dragon against the power of prophecy? To Allison. But then you have Damon at the end of Hoti season one saying, dreams didn't make us kings, dragons did. So again, even inside of the dynasty and the family, there's a conflict here. Are you a dreamer? Does it destroy you? Why is he Darin the Drunken. Because of the burden of these dreams. I love the line in the novella when he says he's explaining why the kingsguard are, you know, same thing. Aegon. Darren, like, reveal who is on the other side. The Kingsguard, they have small choice in the matter. They are sworn to protect the lives of the king and royal family. And my brothers and I are blood of the dragon gods. Help us. Like, the burden of having been born into this family. And you think about, like, Denise the dreamer way back when. This is how to go back to escaping the doom. And the fact that the Targaryens or the dragons way back when, you don't.

[Joanna Robinson]

You're not.

[Mallory Rubin]

You're not familiar with these, but it's why the Targaryens, why they're around. Why D, A, E, N, Y, S. Yeah, thanks for asking, George. But, like, the fact that the Targaryens are the dragons riding family that survived the doom connects to a dream. Obviously. Hot D has spent a ton of time on Aegon the Conqueror's dream, the.

[Chris Ryan]

Song of Ice, miscommunicated to multiple characters.

[Mallory Rubin]

For everyone after there. So, you know, Rhaegar, like, all of these dreamers, this. It's inextricable to think about the history of this family and not talk about this.

[Joanna Robinson]

But I. But I like. I think that Darren, more than any of the other dreamers that we've met in the text so far, really exemplifies what a curse this is, you know?

[Mallory Rubin]

Look at this guy, man.

[Chris Ryan]

The opening.

[Mallory Rubin]

Do you recognize him from the first episode? Yeah, yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Being like, I dreamed you killed me, right?

[Mallory Rubin]

Tough when Dunk has to remind him that he said that him, and he's like, did I? Oh, boy. This guy is really going through it rough.

[Chris Ryan]

The opening, if not Shot sequence of the series itself is the clouds going in front of the sun over a field that looks like a dragon, like, hovering over. It basically looks like something has blotted out the sun.

[Mallory Rubin]

Were you a big. What shape is Jon's blood taking in the. In the snow guy?

[Chris Ryan]

I didn't know this thing was that.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

I thought this was a great moment on the Internet. That's when we were really living.

[Joanna Robinson]

Everyone lost. We were thriving entirely.

[Chris Ryan]

Let's talk a little bit about the teams because, you know, in this sports movie version of this, what's supposed to happen is nobody believes in Dunk. Then we have this, like, gambling subplot where it's like, oh, no, is this really going to mean what it's supposed to mean if he's not winning it sincerely? And then it takes a left turn and it becomes this, you know, trial, and now he has to go raise, like a mini army. It's really cool. I had a couple questions about, like, what would have happened if this had happened? Because, like, I'm kind of, like, wondering, you've got this crowd who's already pissed off at Aryan about the horse situation. If they make this guy forfeit a trial by seven, which is, like, already an antiquated idea because they stole one of the dudes off of his team. Doesn't that seem kind of like.

[Joanna Robinson]

It depends if you're at the podium sort of spinning it brightly.

[Chris Ryan]

Gave these guys every opportunity to reason.

[Mallory Rubin]

And it just goes to show the middle of the night to dawn how.

[Chris Ryan]

Repulsive Duncan is that guys are leaving his team at the last second.

[Joanna Robinson]

I loved how anemic the applause was for Arian team when they came out, they're like, yay, Go.

[Mallory Rubin]

Great stuff.

[Joanna Robinson]

Something that I love about the adaptation we've talked about. We've talked around it a little bit, but now we can talk about it more plainly. The way they brought Lyonel Baratheon up and made him a true character on the show, giving Raymond Foss away a bit more time. So when you think about Duncan's team, which is Raymond and Lionel, two characters we know very well. Baelor, a character we know very well. Robin Reisling, who we met in one scene, but that's more than he gets in the books.

[Chris Ryan]

What's who.

[Joanna Robinson]

Who is the eyepatch guy? Yeah, yeah. And then, you know, the Humphries, Beesbury and Harding and Humphrey Harding, at least, like, we saw him break his leg under the horse. So I think the show really tried to get us to know the members of Dunk's. Team. Whereas in the book, which we love, but like, Lionel shows up to this fight and we haven't spent any time with him.

[Chris Ryan]

He's just like, I'm on.

[Joanna Robinson]

And he's just sort of like, let's go. I love to up. Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

He says the same thing about like, I'm not gonna. This is the first one more than 100 years. I'm not gonna miss this.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right. But like the work that this show did to make all of these characters, the team, an actual team that we're excited about. Yeah. And then we got, you know, we got to meet the kingsguard and we know Darren and we know Makar. We like, know the crowd guy.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

We know Stefan. Like, we know all the members of the other team. And so, like, that's just a really good work that they did on this adaptation.

[Chris Ryan]

Is. Is Stefan's flip flopping basically a case of like, this is the only way if you're not royal born or like, of a high house or whatever to like advance in the world is to like kind of step over other people.

[Mallory Rubin]

I mean, his, his. I think the thing that's interesting about what Stefan does, it's. It's a few things we've seen from every moment we've had with him that he's a piece of. Right. Like, he's calling Dunk a blue eyed cunt. When he meets him, he's like, oh, it matters if the hedge. Right. Demeaning from the job. He's mocking and belittling Raymond, his not only squire, but his family.

[Chris Ryan]

Isn't he the one where Doug's like, this is my sword that I got like through fair.

[Joanna Robinson]

He's. That's the weird thing to say.

[Mallory Rubin]

He was right about that. It was a weird thing to say. This is mine by rights.

[Joanna Robinson]

Stefan Fosseway continues that. Great points.

[Mallory Rubin]

You know, he comes out in this really. And you know Joanna and I have matching apple tattoos. So who are we to besmirch some beautiful apple armor? But like, this is literally what Steely Pate was mocking to Dunk earlier in the season. Right. He's like, I don't do like the fancy fruits and the wings and the I give you good hard steel. So, like, he's such a contrast in every respect to the humble nobility of Dunk.

[Joanna Robinson]

Are we allowed to knock Stefan when Lionel Baratheon is wearing. Wearing that armor? And we love Lionel.

[Mallory Rubin]

I like, I think that the fact that Lionel and Stefan. To your point and to your point about moving up Lionel and all the week because like, we have that wonderful conversation about, like, you know, inside each man there are many men and the storm lords and licking the salts and all that. Like, we understand how he thinks about legacy. And so we have not only his connection to Dunk and the time they've spent, but that depth of insight into what drives him. He is also like, I want to be a little figure of lore. I want to be a myth.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

That's what Stefan is saying very baldly, like, they're gonna give me a lordship. And whenever I have a tough day, I'm like, well, what will they. What can I do to get in the songs? There's something about that that's really similar. But we find ourselves rooting for Lionel and investing in him fully because Stefan is so motivated by just his own advancement. There's nothing deeper at all beyond that. And then you have Raymond, who is like. Like, pushes him away, shoves his helmet to his chest the night that he's supposed to serve his family member. Have you forgotten your vows? That's what Stephan says. He's like, you're supposed to be my squire. No, have you forgotten yours? You swore to be a knight. Like, to your point about this, this thesis statement from Dunk, right? And I love the fact that the speech makes. That Dunk makes to the masses. It's really like Lyanna Mormont esque, right? This kind of an unexpected source. Being the one to look at everybody else and say, like. Like, did you forget what you were supposed to do? House Mormont remembers. Yeah, this is Duncan the Tall remembers.

[Joanna Robinson]

This is where I'm like Serwyn of the Mirror Shield, which is one of the puppet shows that we saw this season. He's holding up this mirror to his audience and say, look at your fucking selves. Are there any true knights here on the Fossoway question that you have. We talked about this a little bit on the deep dive, but they're basically temporarily embarrassed a house that they were once lords and they were once extremely rich. And I think it's interesting that they cast an actor from West Yorkshire and an actor from Manchester and they've got these, like, outside of the London Tony drama, and they. So they like it just. It's. It's a little confusing to me because Yorkshire is usually north coded, but that's okay. I love a regional accent. It just feels a little rough and tumble, you know, when you meet the Fossilways and he's just like. Stefan's like, we used to be some of the richest motherfuckers in the reach. And I think we deserve to be that again. Does he have a good point? No, but that's what he wants here.

[Chris Ryan]

Is there anything about how Dunk's big speech falls on deaf ears except to Balor, that should say anything about, like, the headspace of the realm at that point? I did not prepare you guys for this question, but I was kind of wondering, like, are there different points in different times where people are more apt to believe rallying cries, like, something like that? Are they all just kind of cynics? They're here at a second city tournament. They kind of hate everything we're throwing. This guy farted. It's the funniest thing that's happened in months.

[Mallory Rubin]

Like Bracken, but it's not, like, making an appearance. Great stuff.

[Joanna Robinson]

It doesn't have.

[Chris Ryan]

It's not like it doesn't fill you with a ton of, like, you know, enthusiasm for the populace when they, like. Because, like, I wonder whether or not it's just, like, a moment of, like. Like, emotional depression for west, for the realm.

[Mallory Rubin]

I do think this is a slight and to your point, notable adaptive change here, actually, because in the text, Dunk enters the field. He's with our guy, Steely Pate, stealth mvp.

[Chris Ryan]

Nice.

[Mallory Rubin]

Like, well, for you. That's just incredible.

[Joanna Robinson]

Really good shot.

[Mallory Rubin]

And Dunk's like, man, all of these people came to watch me die. Right?

[Joanna Robinson]

Right.

[Mallory Rubin]

Look how many people came to watch him die. It's like, but he wronged them. They start saying good fortune, and they're cheering him on, and he realizes they are for me. Why, he asked Pete, what am I to them? A knight who remembered his vows.

[Chris Ryan]

So, again, so it's a little bit of, like.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's a little bit different.

[Joanna Robinson]

We'll see how the cheering goes. We'll see how it goes once it's.

[Mallory Rubin]

But in terms of the init, like, he is this. This fog of war literalized that he walks into here in this sense that, like, the. The line in the books, like, he needs to find six, he might as well find 6,000. He doesn't have friends. There was that great line earlier in the season about Arlene didn't have enemies. And we talked about, like, well, if you don't, what about the other side of that? Who are your friends? And so the masses is one thing, but the people in Dunk's life who know him. Joe has been doing this beautiful job all season tracking Steely Pate's been a great example of it. The subtle changes in how people respond to Duncan. Look at him and think about him. Steely Pate saying, okay, your armor is going to be 800. Okay, we'll get it to 600. Now I put this rim around the shield just because I want you to be okay.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

I'm going to tell you when you see death omens everywhere, that the leaves on that elm are green. What in the George R.R. martin universe could be more emboldening than a dream of fucking spring? A book that I still believe maybe we could get one day right.

[Joanna Robinson]

Sure.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's like Raymond, Raymond. And we should talk about the dunk Dystopia.

[Chris Ryan]

R. Martin presents Jesus.

[Mallory Rubin]

Grim. But Raymond, like, we should talk about the. Who ends up knighting him. And that part of it in. In a. In a second here. But like Raymond, sure, he wants to be a knight, but he is throwing himself into a situation that could not possibly be more perilous because he believes this is right.

[Chris Ryan]

I was gonna ask this. They're all so scared. They're all like, this is real shit. Like, we've got lances and maces and this is gonna be really hard.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And then the hand of the king puts himself on this other team.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Not just the hand of the king. A badass, like famous warrior that they.

[Chris Ryan]

Wrote songs about, you know, because like I.

[Joanna Robinson]

You know, and maker's like, when this.

[Chris Ryan]

Is starting, I'm like, okay, so like, is this kind of more. Aryan and Duncan have to like fight, fight. But these other guys can kind of do the hockey thing where they grab each other's jerseys and skate away.

[Mallory Rubin]

Shout out shorts.

[Greenlight Ad Reader]

Yeah, they do that.

[Chris Ryan]

Neater rivalry. Thanks for making that relatable to where they could do like, basically like, oh, yeah, stop. But really, Duncan and Aryan have to solve this, settle this. But I'm like, this is. This is a controversial move because Baylor is now putting himself to some extent in harm.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think the way that Raymond was talking about it makes it clear that like, this is. This is a fight. And. And what Egg says is that there will be guards around my dad may car will be fine. You're not going to up Darren and told you. Yeah, he's going to fall. It's going to be fine. So that's all I care about on that side. But like, otherwise, Raymond' this is a big deal. This is real, you know.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Real weapons, real danger. And then he welcomes it. Raymond F. The Knighting of Raymond Foss right out of. I mean, it's so good.

[Chris Ryan]

Happens also kind of in Excalibur, the King Arthur movie where he's like, you're not a knight. And he's like, you're right. So why don't you knight me? It's a little bit different in this where he's like, we just need to grab somebody off the bench. So I'll just knight him. And then Lionel doing it is really cool. And that, like, Sarah Dina Smith does some cool stuff with like, the voiceover of the knighting, but, like, showing.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think the. I'm trying to figure out why I started crying because, like, this is. This is. This is a very funny little show. There are some deep emotional things going on. But I actually did not expect to cry this morning watching it. But I think I was thinking a lot about our guy Podrick Payne and, like, who ends Game of Thrones on the Kingsguard. We don't see him knighted, but I was just imagining, like, Brienne probably knighted him. And like, I was just crying thinking.

[Mallory Rubin]

About who gives the key nod in the Jamie Brienne knighting scene.

[Joanna Robinson]

Exactly right.

[Mallory Rubin]

Any knight can make a knight. It's Pod with the. I was thinking of him too. We need.

[Joanna Robinson]

But we do need to talk about Duncan not knighting him here and everything that we get in this episode that I think it's safe. It's as much information as book readers have.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

As to question whether or not Duncan is a real knight.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

This is something that, like, I think.

[Chris Ryan]

That'S why he didn't do it.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh.

[Joanna Robinson]

In the book Long Running feels very clear that that's why he doesn't do it. Any night can make a knight. And he's like, I'm not a knight, so I can't do this. And then Lionel's like, don't worry, I got you.

[Chris Ryan]

Does he say it or does he think it.

[Mallory Rubin]

No, Raymond, I. I should not skip a few sentences. Do you doubt my courage? Raymond asked. No, said Dunk. Not that. But still he hesitated. Skip a few sentences. Dunk left them there, feeling as relieved as he was guilty. When Plummer asks him at the beginning, when they're going through the whole, like, I'm trying to enter the list. There's like a description of his burning ears. We've always thought that the. They're. I mean, you could be here for five hours and maybe we will be talking about the evidence. But the line actually when Duncan Egg are talking and that's it a month.

[Joanna Robinson]

A monster.

[Mallory Rubin]

Monstrous lie. Because Dunk in the episode, he sort of, you know, it's the. It's the shift from there. Very painful and intense conversation, which I loved taking this beautiful idea of chance meetings and the spin of like, it was unlucky. How devastating to think about it that way. That we crossed each other's paths. Then he's very quickly defending Egg to Baylor, right? He's a good boy. The. The line in the book where that kind of softens him. They're like, oh, you know, top of Aegon's Hill, Flea bottom. We're not so far. It wasn't so far apart after all, finding that commonality together. But Dunk looked at him thoughtfully. He knew what it was like to want something so badly that you would tell a monstrous lie just to get near it. I thought you were like me, he said. Might be you are, only not the way I thought.

[Chris Ryan]

Print the legend, brother. Incredible knows the difference.

[Mallory Rubin]

But is it the point of the show to like you're you noting this thesis? Does it matter? Dunk is behaving like a true man more than any of other people will.

[Joanna Robinson]

And to go back to your question of sort of like nobody responding when Duncan gives his rousing speech, I think that's just more to underline what the show has been underlining, which is like the hollowness of most of the knights of the realm and the true honor of your dunks or your Raymonds or.

[Chris Ryan]

Your Baelors, since these people have seen a real knight, but they don't even know how to react when they see them.

[Mallory Rubin]

And the fact that the show opens with him burying Arlen, whose lessons he's gonna carry on, you know, that will show him what his hand has wrought. Well, here's what his hand has wrought. But also when he's bearing him, what does he say? Like, I. I don't.

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't.

[Mallory Rubin]

I don't know the words. Like, I wish there were a ception here. I don't know the words. And then he has to find the words here to try to make this appeal.

[Chris Ryan]

And of all, he also doesn't know what the Trial of Seven is. He's like, they. My Arlen is not a big religious guy. I don't know.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, he hasn't been crunching Maegor the Cruel Tape, I guess to learn about how that Trial of Seven went. Not well.

[Chris Ryan]

Have we ever seen a Trial of Seven in. No.

[Mallory Rubin]

I mean, obviously we've seen a ton of Trial by Combat, which, you know, it's a fun, I think, thing for this novella and this season of TV to do to say, here's something very familiar. Obviously this came out before a lot of the other things, but in terms of the Order People are receiving the show now, but give it a little twist. Like Dunk was never gonna ask for a champion. He was gonna go fight on his own. So you're thinking of all of these different examples. Tyrion more than once, you know, Bronn and then Oberyn, et cetera. Barrick and the Hound. Even just like Jamie talking to Ned about, like, when I, you know, killed the Mad King. It felt like justice because of your father. Rickard and the trial by con. Who did the Mad King invoke as his champion? Fucking fire. Yeah, House Targaryen's fine. They're always fine. That's deranged. Right on and on the list goes Common. Eventually outlawing trial by combat. Etc. This is to get. The trial of seven is a fun wrinkle because it's about who is willing to stand by you. And they all have their own reasons. Heart. Humphrey Harding is like this. Chilled my horse and smashed my leg. I have my per.

[Chris Ryan]

I'm seeking as long as I can be on a horse that is honestly, like, so tough.

[Mallory Rubin]

That's awesome.

[Joanna Robinson]

They like duct taped him into his.

[Chris Ryan]

We were talking today. We were recording the watch today. We were talking about. Lindsey Vaughn is gonna ski with a torn acl.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yes, seriously.

[Chris Ryan]

And we were like, how I love.

[Joanna Robinson]

The Olympics, you know?

[Chris Ryan]

Like, how can you do that? That's basically Lindsey Vaughn is what I'm saying.

[Joanna Robinson]

Malik, can I ask you a question?

[Mallory Rubin]

Lindsay Vaughn in Westeros. Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, I'm. Well, it's more of a statement.

[Chris Ryan]

Sorry, not a statement.

[Joanna Robinson]

I'm surprised. I'm surprised your favorite moment of the episode wasn't Dunk befriending a rat? A little rat in his jail cell.

[Mallory Rubin]

We've got Preston right here. I was wondering.

[Chris Ryan]

Put him behind you.

[Mallory Rubin]

The rats and hot te. Were you thinking about blood and cheese? Were you thinking about your favorite rat catchers?

[Chris Ryan]

My Boston apartment was at the end before I left it.

[Joanna Robinson]

I was thinking Dunk is starving. And there's a different show where, like he grabs and eats that rat. But he's like, he's so 10.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. How about learning that egg is like a cat guy. Shout out, sir. Pounce. You know, we haven't really talked about egg.

[Joanna Robinson]

Would you say no one is more accursed than the Kit Slayer for Aryan? Right?

[Mallory Rubin]

Why not?

[Joanna Robinson]

I was waiting this whole episode to say that. What did you think of when. When they cut to Aegon and he's just swinging that giant ax in the background shot.

[Chris Ryan]

I mean, he's a little bit in the background of this episode, but thought he was great. Again, performance and you know, definitely point paints this portrait of being terrorized by Aryan and then Aryan turning around being like, I love my brothers. I love them. They're great brothers.

[Mallory Rubin]

What Baylor does and what Egg does, like, we really can't like overstate the significance of it. I mean, Egg is out actively recruiting people for Dunk's side and choose it's. It's such a cementing.

[Chris Ryan]

You'd be surprised. He wasn't grabbing, to be completely honest, that he was allowed.

[Mallory Rubin]

Like he's out there rocking his to.

[Joanna Robinson]

His hair, Darion and Arion. He like can't keep track of Egg. I think that on the Baelor front, yeah, there's an adaptive change that happens in this episode where when Dunk is taken before Balor, Dunk is a bit more sort of active and aggressive than he is in. In the book in terms of like, he's debating him. He's like, wouldn't you have done the same? Like, these are things that sort of Baelor is monologuing and they turned it into a dialogue which just makes. Makes Dunk feel a bit more sure of himself inside of that scene.

[Chris Ryan]

That's very substantial too because Baylor obviously is treating him as like a quasi equal.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right.

[Chris Ryan]

And he's almost just like, I agree with you. But like the rules are the rules and without rules you get blackfire rebellion.

[Joanna Robinson]

For him to. Fair enough. But then for him to show up at the end and basically like, quote Duncan is like. Which is, you know, again, an adaptive change. But like something that I think is so speaks to Baelor, our hottest fave.

[Mallory Rubin]

Genuinely the best.

[Joanna Robinson]

Like taking lessons from anyone. You can take a lesson from a hedge knight. Doesn't matter if you're the heir to the throne, who, you know, best idea wins sort of thing.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, I love that. And it's such a great way to really connect to what we saw from him in episode two when he had such grace. He's the one who remembers Arlen of everyone. He's the one who calls easily, calls Dong sir and tells him to rise and welcomes him. And the tonal shift here does heighten the tension and the anxiety of the moment, but it feels like a very natural continuation. And I love that too, because we've talked about that a lot with Dunk and Egg, how they're both learning from each other. Baylor calls him into the room to suggest trial by combat. It's not like he's like, fuck off. Like he's. He wants to help him. I loved the look that Birdie, as Baylor gave to Finn Bennett. Aryan, when he's like, you know, talking about guilt, like, he's just like, you are the one who is in the wrong here. But still to your point, Dunk, giving him in this scene and the energy of it that final little bit of a boost to encourage him to make the choice to ride out.

[Joanna Robinson]

So you.

[Mallory Rubin]

In the minds of Thrones fans, it is, I think, so evocative of Oberyn, of course, but Oberyn, that's an iconic moment. It's more iconic ultimately because we've spent four seasons and three books with Tyrion by then, we've spent a season and a book with Oberyn. There's just less time with these characters. However, what Baylor does here is more noble, no question. His is driven by his personal vengeance. He will call it justice, but it's vengeance. And I'm not saying that's wrong, sure. But there is a reason that he's.

[Chris Ryan]

Just like, the game is the game. I gotta respect it.

[Joanna Robinson]

He.

[Mallory Rubin]

What about what I want? He says, what about what I want? That's not what Baylor is doing here. He's like, what is right? And Dunk has helped him see that. There's an incredible lesson there. You know, when Dunk in the novella sees the Foss white apple, our guy Raymond, he's like. Describes it as like, it looked like Hope.

[Joanna Robinson]

Our guy Raymond.

[Mallory Rubin]

I love Raymond.

[Chris Ryan]

Raymond. You like?

[Mallory Rubin]

I love Stefan is a piece of garbage. But, like, this is hope. The idea of a person in power in this family, in this realm who could try to do the right thing. How truly, truly rare.

[Chris Ryan]

I'm sure everything will work out great. Let's.

[Mallory Rubin]

How about the throne's theme music at the end?

[Chris Ryan]

True Bold.

[Joanna Robinson]

I couldn't hear it.

[Mallory Rubin]

I was like, really get it. No cut to die diarrhea this time. Just like, we're in it.

[Chris Ryan]

I was in WordPress just being like, did Aryan have a point? Okay, we'll wrap it up there right into the cms.

[Mallory Rubin]

He does that.

[Joanna Robinson]

I also do that. Dude.

[Mallory Rubin]

One of my favorite Chris things from the years, especially in the big blog days, was he would send a slack in the production slack and just say.

[Chris Ryan]

You would usually have to say you.

[Mallory Rubin]

Drop something on Trello. I've done this. This has gone through.

[Chris Ryan]

Somebody else has edited it. You know, then that editor.

[Mallory Rubin]

I am to the desk.

[Best Western Ad Reader]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

I was. I wrote hits, you know, man, I wrote a lot of hit misses, though. You know, you got you.

[Joanna Robinson]

No, no, you didn't.

[Chris Ryan]

You miss on a thousand percent of the blogs.

[Joanna Robinson]

You don't write, you know, into the cms.

[Chris Ryan]

We'll end it there.

[Mallory Rubin]

This was like. Was this your favorite episode of the season so far?

[Chris Ryan]

They are. Everyone. Success is my favorite episode of the season.

[Mallory Rubin]

We'll.

[Chris Ryan]

We'll end it there. Episode five next Sunday. No Super Bowl. So we'll be back at our usual time.

[Mallory Rubin]

Who's gonna win the Super Bowl Bowl. What do you think?

[Chris Ryan]

Seahawks.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. Let's go.

[Joanna Robinson]

I've heard.

[Mallory Rubin]

Do you know the. That the Seahawks head coach is a ringer fan?

[Chris Ryan]

Mike McDonald's a talk the Thrones fan.

[Mallory Rubin]

You remember? I am. To the desk and blogging. But you don't remember meeting Mike McDonald in the Ringer offices back in the day?

[Chris Ryan]

Not at all. Really?

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Well, if you're listening, I would remember.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

There you go.

[Mallory Rubin]

Mike.

[Joanna Robinson]

Come.

[Chris Ryan]

Looks like anonymous. Like if you put like Mike McDowell. Looks like 2 million white men to me. Not.

[Joanna Robinson]

And there's nothing wrong with that in a trench coat.

[Chris Ryan]

I'm just saying, don't you think Mike McDonald is not the most distinctive looking person.

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, he was a wonderful coach of the Baltimore Ravens back in the day.

[Chris Ryan]

I love Mike McDonald.

[Mallory Rubin]

I hope he wins a Super bowl and I hope the Patriots eat.

[Joanna Robinson]

Great.

[Chris Ryan]

See you guys on next Sunday.

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Bye.

[Joanna Robinson]

Close your eyes.

[Mallory Rubin]

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[Joanna Robinson]

1-800-Contacts.

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