‘A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms’ Episode 5 Reactions | Talk the Thrones

Summary

House of R – ‘A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms’ Episode 5 Reactions | Talk the Thrones

Hosts: Mallory Rubin, Joanna Robinson
Special Guest: Chris Ryan
Air Date: February 16, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Mallory Rubin and Joanna Robinson are joined by Chris Ryan for an in-depth reaction discussion to the penultimate episode of A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms. The trio deep-dives into the high-stakes trial by seven at Ashford, the bold adaptive choices of the flashback sequences, character arcs, the emotional brutality of classic George R. R. Martin storytelling, and the themes of honor, trauma, and happenstance in Westeros. The crew brings their trademark blend of affection, insight, and irreverence to break down the melee, the fallout, and what these moments mean for fans both new and old.

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Main Themes and Purpose

• Exploring the cost of chivalry and honor: How the series subverts expectations through tragedy and the messiness of violence.
• Flashing back to shape character motives: The use (and critique) of flashbacks to Dunk’s youth and their resonance with present events.
• The unrelenting brutality and randomness of Westeros: Show’s handling of shocking character deaths, power, and legacy.
• Adaptive choices: Expansion and reinterpretation of source material to suit TV.
• Connections to past Thrones lore: The Battle of Redgrass Field, Blackfyre Rebellion, and show-to-novella parallels.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Penultimate, Penetrating Melee (02:16–06:38, 09:00–12:14, 29:10–35:45)

• The episode centers on the climactic trial by seven, a brutal melee that upends expectations of ceremony.
• Dunk’s viewpoint dominates, leading viewers through confusion, pain, and a chaotic, immersive melee.

Memorable Moments:

• Aryan’s violent comeuppance:
  Chris Ryan (06:27): "Dunk's getting stabbed a lot. And they are leaving everything out on the field, including Aryan's dick because that—"

• Balor’s shocking death:
  Chris Ryan (09:00): "And Baelor, right after saying something truly idealistic and tender, his brains fall out right onto the floor..."

• The battle is chaotic—with Dunk and Aryan’s fight at the fore, other combatants' fates swimming in the mud and mist.

Analysis:
Mallory calls it "the most monumental butterfly-dragonfly-flaps-its-wings moment in the entire canon" (10:11), highlighting its resonance across the story.

2. Flashbacks – Purpose, Pacing, and Parallels (03:56–05:28, 11:33–16:29)

• Flashbacks to Dunk’s impoverished youth in Flea Bottom and the aftermath of the Blackfyre Rebellion expand his backstory.
• The origin of Dunk’s willingness to risk everything for others is explored—though some hosts are mixed on their necessity.

Host Critiques:

• Chris admits first-time-viewer frustration:
  Chris Ryan (11:33): "I was frustrated by the flashback because I didn't need an explanation for why Dunk might risk everything for Tanzel..."
• Joanna calls out the peril of “fridging” women for male backstory:
  Joanna Robinson (14:49): "...kill a girl to get a backstory. Of course, it's very lazy."
• Mallory praises the Arlan/Dunk parallels:
  Mallory Rubin (15:24): "...Arlen also was a knight like Dunk, who remembered his vow is like, such a cool and lovely parallel..."

Insight:
The flashbacks serve to mirror relationships—Arlan to Dunk, Egg to Dunk, highlighting the series theme of mentors and found family. The adaptation introduces new elements (e.g., the Rafe romance) not present in the books, to varied reception.

3. The Reality Behind the Lore: Setting and Class (18:16–23:40)

• Flea Bottom’s depiction earns praise for its gritty, claustrophobic realism, underscoring the ongoing corruption and class struggle in King’s Landing.
• The “Battle of Redgrass Field” flashback sets up not just personal stakes, but the echoes of historic trauma from civil war.

Notable Quotes:

• Mallory: "The only thing as he voices that matters is the person right across from him. But like, I loved that little bit of clarity into his psyche too." (21:25)
• Joanna: "...contrast between what the history books have told this King did, he fixed everything in the streets of King's Landing and the reality of what the fuck Alistair is doing to these kids in the street." (20:02)

4. Adaptation: Lore, Timeline, and Book Differences (23:43–27:52)

• The hosts clarify lore for viewers—the significance of Targaryen and Blackfyre sigils, historical figures like Bloodraven, and the impact of civil war on Westeros.
• The adaptation takes creative license, such as fleshing out battle aftermath and minor characters, making lore more accessible and thematically potent.

Joanna (27:52):
"...It's cropped up in the footnotes of things. It's cropped up in World of Ice and Fire, but it hasn't been fully written by George. So to see the battle..."

5. The Cost of Violence, Subversion of Fantasy Tropes (35:45–39:34)

• The visceral reality of the melee, muddy confusion, and accidental death (Baelor's) is praised for embodying "fog of war" and the randomness of suffering.
• The show’s ability to still shock, despite many viewers’ familiarity with Thronesian twists, is a tribute to both George R. R. Martin’s and the showrunners’ storytelling.

Joanna reads from the novella:
"...Dunk saw something red and wet fall out of the helm. Someone was screaming high and terrible against the bleak gray sky swayed a tall, tall prince in black armor with only half a skull..." (38:14)

6. Knighthood, Honor, and Ripples Through the Realm (39:34–45:48)

• Dunk’s (possible) knighting by Baelor is dissected—what makes one a true knight: the action, or the ceremony?
• The consequences of violence—honorable or not—are complex and lasting, as Dunk ponders: will people accept him, or vilify him for Baelor’s death?
• The show draws connections between thematic beats in A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms and the rest of George's canon, emphasizing how even "the best man" can meet a gruesome fate.

Mallory Rubin (40:35):
"...the way this was framed inside of this show, directed and staged, was so the kneeling, but also Baelor...puts his hand right where a sword would be, on Dunk's shoulder. So it just felt like a visual rendering..."

7. Classic Thrones Irony: Tragedy of Baelor Breakspear (44:08–45:48)

• The hosts emphasize the emotional whiplash: one week of Baelor love, followed by horror and heartbreak as his head splits open.
• Baelor’s death is contextually placed within the tradition of shocking, subversive fantasy storytelling pioneered by Martin—even predating the infamous deaths in the main series.

Mallory (45:33):
"Baelor's death is like an OG...that influences a lot of what is to come for the people receiving it at home."

8. The Future of Dunk and Egg – Relationships, Chemistry, and Setup (48:13–50:14)

• Despite the carnage, the chemistry of Dunk and Egg endures, with the hosts noting their inside jokes and growth.
• Other relationships—among Targaryens, and among the knights—are highlighted for emotional resonance.
• The finale is previewed—expect more fallout, and further exploration of legacy and consequence.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments by Timestamp

• [06:27] Chris Ryan: "Dunk's getting stabbed a lot. And they are leaving everything out on the field, including Aryan's dick because that—"
• [09:00] Chris Ryan: "And Baelor, right after saying something truly idealistic and tender, his brains fall out right onto the floor..."
• [10:11] Mallory Rubin: "...one of the most monumental butterfly dragonfly flaps its wings moments in the entire canon."
• [11:33] Chris Ryan: "I was frustrated by the flashback because I didn't need an explanation for why Dunk might risk everything for Tanzel..."
• [14:49] Joanna Robinson: "...kill a girl to get a backstory. Of course, it's very lazy."
• [15:24] Mallory Rubin: "...such a cool and lovely parallel to show us between them as like across this season, we've really and Dunk had kind of reconciled all of the different unsavory and pure aspects of Arlen..."
• [20:02] Joanna Robinson: "...what the history books have told this King did, he fixed everything in the streets of King's Landing and the reality of what the fuck Alistair is doing to these kids in the street."
• [38:14] Joanna Robinson (reading the novella): "...Dunk saw something red and wet fall out of the helm. Someone was screaming high and terrible against the bleak gray sky swayed a tall, tall prince in black armor with only half a skull. Ok, that all sounds right..."
• [40:35] Mallory Rubin: "...the way this was framed inside of this show, directed and staged...a visual rendering of Baelor...there's basically this kinship of honor between them that they're both making that pledge to each other."
• [44:09] Joanna Robinson: "This is the guy. This is the one good guy. And now he's dead."
• [45:33] Mallory Rubin: "Baelor's death is like an OG...that influences a lot of what is to come for the people receiving it at home."

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Additional Insights & Episode Structure

• Show vs. Book Knowledge: The hosts balance accessibility for non-book readers (with context and orientation for melee participants and flashbacks) and deep-dive lore for book fans.
• Cinematic/Technical Praise: The clarity of battle choreography, sound design, and the emotional pacing are highlighted as standout achievements for a lower-budget, more intimate Thrones show.
• Audience Experience: The week-to-week airing format enhances the emotional punch compared to binge viewing.

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Closing Notes and Looking Forward

• The hosts tease a loaded finale, promising consequences, further exploration of relationships, and a deeper dive into the aftermath of this episode’s ultra-dramatic events.
• They reflect on the continued emotional power of Thrones storytelling and the mixed blessings of loving “the one good guy” in Westeros.

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For First-Time Listeners/Watchers

This episode of House of R offers a smart, funny, and heartfelt window into how A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms adapts, honors, and plays with the best of Thrones storytelling: the agony of good intentions, unexpected moments of grace, the casual indifference of fate and class, and the perpetual hope of better days for unlikely heroes. Even if you’re less familiar with the sprawling history, these three guides are sure to keep you entertained, informed, and—most importantly—emotionally invested.

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Next Up: The season finale of A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms – same time, same place.

Transcript

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[Chris Ryan]

Hello and welcome to Talk the Thrones. My name is Chris Ryan. I am an [e-mail] and joining me in the studio is Joanna Robinson and her helmet is keeping it all together. Mallory Rubin. We are going to jump into the extraordinary fifth episode of A Night of the Seven Kingdoms right after this. All right, guys, we are back. The penultimate episode of this season.

[Joanna Robinson]

I know.

[Mallory Rubin]

Where's the time gone? I'm sad.

[Chris Ryan]

And this is an episode about time and about what makes us. If we go back to our youth, you know, and what shapes our kind of our worldviews, we're going to get into all of that.

[Mallory Rubin]

When are we getting the Chris Ryan Philly origin?

[Joanna Robinson]

I know, where's the, where's the. Where's your flag?

[Chris Ryan]

Every episode, every podcast is essentially building that origin story. Why don't we do the recap? Okay, so after some forced trades and free agent signings, the deadline has passed and we're ready to rock here at Ashford. Balor offers to take on the Kingsguard. The logic being that they are bound by duty not to harm him. Observation about how unloved sons make good fighters. And Duncan Eggshare. A laugh and a tear. We are off to the trial after the first quarter. It's not going very well for our band of brothers. Different dudes are wearing different armor. But safe to say Dunk catches a lance in the chestal abdominal front body section and then frost the cupcake with a mace to the face. Oh my God. What will happen next? Too bad. Flashback time.

[Joanna Robinson]

Valerie. Already? Well, actually. Your weapon is a morning star.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's a morning star.

[Joanna Robinson]

Morning star.

[Mallory Rubin]

May cards using a mace. Arian a morning star. But the maker later make our later.

[Joanna Robinson]

Also uses a morning star.

[Chris Ryan]

Is this kind of like a tissue and a Kleenex thing where like a morning star is also a mace, but a mace is a mace.

[Mallory Rubin]

Square rhombus.

[Joanna Robinson]

Morning star is on the chain and then the mace is just like the stick with the ball at the end.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, okay, my bad.

[Joanna Robinson]

No, no, no.

[Chris Ryan]

Should I see myself out?

[Mallory Rubin]

No, please continue because I just heard.

[Joanna Robinson]

Her mumble Morningstar under her breath and I.

[Chris Ryan]

We have to talk about the great crutch of prestige television. Flashback. In the throes of the season's climactic battle, we are taken back to yesteryear outside of King's Landing where a battle has taken place. I believe this is the Blackfire Rebellion.

[Mallory Rubin]

You red grass field you're mentioning so much.

[Chris Ryan]

And a knight is lying on death's door. And a young Dunk with his friend Rafer looking to make a little money. Yeah, you're never gonna believe this, but the flea bottom neighborhood of King's Landing is a little bit of a dog eat dog vibe.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yep.

[Chris Ryan]

And it's presided over by a city watch asshole named Alistair who likes to shake people down like Duncan Rape. So they've gone. They've gone to this battlefield. They got some leather, they got some horseshoes, whatever other coin they can find.

[Mallory Rubin]

You ever taken the horseshoe off of a dead horse? We know how you feel about dead horses. Or injured horses. Or the copper from the tooth of a corpse. You ever raided a battlefield?

[Chris Ryan]

I wouldn't put it past myself. Spoils a war in a dystopian post apocalypse.

[Joanna Robinson]

Anything for a dart.

[Mallory Rubin]

You'll take a molar if there's gold around it.

[Chris Ryan]

If somebody had like a half smoked Camel.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right?

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

No re ads, R&D Raf and Rafe and Dunk, they try to pawn some of the horseshoes and the leather and the sundry battlefield souvenirs, all to fund Rafe's Bruce Springsteen esque dream of living this one horse town where they probably also eat horses.

[Mallory Rubin]

Second Bruce Springsteen mentioned it in the recap.

[Chris Ryan]

I did.

[Mallory Rubin]

Are you prepared to sing some lyrics this time?

[Chris Ryan]

I should. How about this?

[Mallory Rubin]

Give us the finale you're going to sing to us.

[Chris Ryan]

I will write a Bruce Springsteen song about Duncan Egg.

[Joanna Robinson]

We got to remind him next week.

[Chris Ryan]

When I walk in, I'm like, I'm not prepared at all.

[Joanna Robinson]

Schedule a text for Thursday.

[Chris Ryan]

On the precipice of this journey, they find out about a little something called dynamic pricing for tickets. And before they can throw a tantrum, Alistair shows up and takes their coins and grappling ensues. Alistair cuts Rafe's throat. Dunk attacks Alistair and who should come to his rescue but a younger version of the well hung hedge knight, Sir Arlan. This starts their beautiful journey together of protege and apprentice, or apprentice and master or whatever you want to call it. We see a bit of Dunks, hazing and apprenticeship under Arlen before you're shot back into the present moment. Shit's really going to shit.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Here. And honestly, if you're watching on the first pass, I'm so glad to be talking about this with you because even before we started this pod I realized I was a bit confused about what was going on. Largely Shot from Dunk's perspective. We have the battle to the death going on here. I thought the trial by seven was supposed to be a little bit more ceremonial than this, but Dunk. Dunk's getting stabbed a lot.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

To be completely honest, I didn't really anticipate this a lot. And they are leaving everything out on the field, including Aryan's dick because that.

[Mallory Rubin]

Gets sliced off or we slash some high thigh.

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[Mallory Rubin]

You know you're worried about some arterial bleed.

[Chris Ryan]

What do you think happens first? Jason Tatum back on the court or Aryan back in the bedroom? I knew you'd like that.

[Mallory Rubin]

Let's ask Bill. That's how we'll know if he's watching.

[Chris Ryan]

This is a classic heavyweight fight where Aryan thinks he's won. Right before he actually loses. He withdraws his accusation towards Duncan. The crowd goes wild, but we haven't counted up the bodies yet. What are the casualties? Beesbury and Harding.

[Mallory Rubin]

Dead tough, but he got a line.

[Joanna Robinson]

He did get a line and a name drop.

[Mallory Rubin]

I'm so happy for you. Thank you.

[Chris Ryan]

Thank God the most beloved character on this show is still with us. Still alive and still Baylor, still just kicking out like, mad knowledge and beautiful.

[Joanna Robinson]

Boiling wine, not boiling oil.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, really helpful.

[Joanna Robinson]

Don't kill him.

[Chris Ryan]

And Baylor, right after saying something truly idealistic and tender, his brains fall out right onto the floor because he has gotten beaten up, I guess, by his own brother's brother. He does.

[Mallory Rubin]

He does.

[Chris Ryan]

Game of Thrones.

[Mallory Rubin]

Game of Thrones.

[Joanna Robinson]

Fuck.

[Mallory Rubin]

Unbelievable.

[Joanna Robinson]

Interesting, because we've been hearing from a lot of listeners that they had not watched other Game of Thrones shows because it was too brutal. But they were like, this one seems. They were like. But this one seems kind of nice.

[Mallory Rubin]

I've been worried about this.

[Joanna Robinson]

And then we were like, ugh, someone's brains are gonna fall out.

[Chris Ryan]

Also, Rafe House of our listeners who were like, I like listening to you talk about X, Y or Z. Thrones.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, but we haven't watched Thrones. But we're watching Night of the Seven Kingdoms because it seems a Bit nicer. And I mean, in the grand scheme of things, it is nicer. But when we see Rafe, like gurgling on her blood in this episode, a head like rolling around the pigs and then Baelor's brain falls out. It's just. It's a lot. It's Game of Thrones.

[Mallory Rubin]

George is going to.

[Chris Ryan]

George, you know, what's your favorite moment of this episode?

[Mallory Rubin]

I mean, it feels weird to say my favorite moment is seeing Baylor's back half of his head fall off. I'm curious for your take as a big hat enthusiast, you know, on the structural integrity of the skull.

[Chris Ryan]

People think it's there.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's actually just keeping it all together.

[Chris Ryan]

Much more significant brain injury.

[Mallory Rubin]

You know, I think that is certainly the most significant and one of the most monumental butterfly dragonfly flaps its wings moment in the entire canon. I thought the entire battle was like revelatory and I can't wait to talk about all of it. I would say I'm mixed, albeit mixed positive, on the flashback stuff, which I'm excited to get into and was a big adaptive change overall. My heart was going to like explode out of my chest watching this and I just thought that the energy and like the visceral nature of being in the mud was so gripping and mesmerizing and like tonally astonishing. Finn Bennett in the hall of fame for just the, like most crestfallen and depleted anybody has ever looked in Westeros when he had.

[Joanna Robinson]

When he realized it was not over.

[Chris Ryan]

Yet, it was over for him.

[Joanna Robinson]

So Mallory's favorite moment was the whole thing? Yes.

[Mallory Rubin]

That was great.

[Joanna Robinson]

It was great.

[Mallory Rubin]

To me, it was great. I mean, everything with Baylor is just an all timer to me. All timer.

[Joanna Robinson]

My guy Beesbury did get a line and he got name dropped by Prince Balor before he died. So that was very important to me. There's a small moment in the melee as Mallory and I were like pouring over the tape and rewinding and trying to follow people where Arian's on top of our guy Dunk in the mud and he's got a dagger and who comes along but Raymond Fossaway with a, like a key hit to Aryan to like save the day. So my guy Raymond Fosseway really showing up, I thought was my favorite moment.

[Chris Ryan]

So first time through. Yeah, I was frustrated by the flashback because I didn't need an explanation for why Dunk might risk everything for Tanzel in the. In the. In his adulthood. I didn't need to know that it also originated with a love that he had when he was a kid and that that person was also stomped out by the ruling class in some way. So I. I felt it unnecessary. But then rewatching the episode, I thought a sustained 30 minutes of that kind of fighting.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Would be almost. Almost too much. Look, I. I'll fucking watch this. The first 30 minutes of saving Private Ryan, whatever.

[Mallory Rubin]

Just for fun.

[Chris Ryan]

But over your mind. Why is it like they are so dedicated to keeping things in Baylor and Dunk's perspective.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

That you really are having a hard time or. I had a hard time understanding who's.

[Joanna Robinson]

Who.

[Chris Ryan]

Who's getting hit.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. Who's in danger. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And so I think that having this weird 15, 20 minute break in between the opening five minutes in the last 10, 10, 15 minutes was. Was pretty cool.

[Joanna Robinson]

I liked it better on rewatch and it was less of the episode than it than I thought it was the first time I watched it through.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

In my mind I was like it was the whole flashback and we have like the Baylor goes out.

[Joanna Robinson]

But what you're saying is that it has to be either or. It has to be either the flashback or the entire thing is the melee. And it doesn't that it didn't have to be that way. But of course, how can you resist ending with Bael or Breakspear's brain falling out? So you know, they had a couple options on how to cut this season up. Like we could have done more tie with my guy at Beesbury at the beginning of this episode instead of a lengthy flashback. I don't know. Seems of equal value.

[Chris Ryan]

Do you think that that's ultimately them adhering to we see Beesbury as much as Dunk does or do you see?

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, that was true of like Lionel and all of them and they. And they found room for those guys, but not my guy Beesbury. Anyway, I will let the Beesbury thing go probably. But there is a.

[Chris Ryan]

Certainly seems like you're letting it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. I feel really chill about it. But in. In like rereading this section, there's just like one line that jumped out to me as like maybe could be the reason for the flashback to be here. And it's when Dunk is wailing on Aerion with his shield. Right. And he says he in inside Dunk's head he's thinking he could vanquish Ser Duncan the tall. But not Dunk of Flea Bottom like that he has dirty street fight in order to win this fight. And that's why I feel like when they were reading through they're like, this is our Into a flashback.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay, but is Alistair, Rafe Flea bottom? Is it in the books?

[Mallory Rubin]

Rafe Pudding Ferret. These are mentions across the novellas later as like figures in Dunk's youth. But this Rafe in this form and this relationship is this formative love is all new.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. We're at like 30 minutes left in the book, basically at the end of episode four. So this is a real expansion to flesh out the fact that we have two episodes of the show of the series remaining. That line stood out to me as well as a good reason to show us what was gonna rise inside of Dunk. Just like when he goes to Tansel's defense, something just innate. Right. Intrinsic rises inside of him. I think that the other thing that makes it useful to. I think the Arlen Dunk and Egg Dunk comps are my favorite part of it. The Rafe Tanzel element that you guys are identifying my least favorite part as. Well, I agree. I don't think we needed. The fact that Dunk would help anybody is like the point to me. So I found that kind of puzzling.

[Joanna Robinson]

I also just like I'm never a fan of Kill a girl to get a backstory. Of course, it's very lazy.

[Mallory Rubin]

Great point. I think that just the aging up, which is a very normal thing in the adaptations, more time in Dunk's life, it would be harder to explain us knowing basically nothing about those years and, like, fewer seminal things happening to him. So I think giving us some glimpse into that time broadly makes sense. But I think that the like Arlen, the name of the episode in the name of the Mother. Arlen coming out as Dunk's savior and shouting, in the name of the mother, leave that boy be. So what's the knighting thou? In the name of the Mother, I charge you to defend the young and innocent. The fact that Arlen also was a knight like Dunk, who remembered his vow is like, such a cool and lovely parallel to show us between them as like across this season, we've really and Dunk had kind of reconciled all of the different unsavory and pure aspects of Arlen, many of which we see in this origin story. He's like, very content while in his drunken grieving stupor to let Dunk get his latest bout of, like, dysentery from all. He can always count on it from Dunk from the stream. But I just think that's a lovely comp. The fact that there's an innocent there who needs help. Very Brienne coded for both of them. Nothing's More hateful than failing to protect the one you love. Arlen's grieving Roger Dunk holding in front of that grave. Holding that little helm that's his prior squire dead, killed at the red grass field. The way that Dunk slides in there for Roger and Arlen's life and then Egg slides into Dunk's life the way that Dunk slid into Arlen's Egg. Following Dunk, we see Dunk following Arlen. There's parallels like I thought were just really lovely to better understand. So that part of it I really liked.

[Joanna Robinson]

I thought they were lovely. Some occasionally a little too cute. Like a little too cute with the parallels. But very good. I like connecting it to the battle of the Red grass field. This like that moment that Arlen. The reason that Arlen is in such a drunken terror is because his nephew just died. Who was his squire. Roger.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay, so I want to ask a little bit about that battlefield, but I'll just to put a cap on the flashback. And should they, shouldn't they? Yeah, I can make the argument that. Okay, so not if you had. He's going to compare something to Andor at home. You can check that off the bingo card box.

[Mallory Rubin]

Never a bad time.

[Chris Ryan]

Andor uses flashbacks to Cassian's youth to set up the Fiona Shaw character and explain the significance not only of her, but also why he is ultimately going to arrive at this anti Imperial like rebellion in the first place. I. Outside of like this sort of not declared internal monologue about like I'll never. I. I am doing this for Dunk of Flea Bottom. Yeah, it's just kind of like was. Did he really think of this entire story in the five seconds that between he got knocked off his horse and got back up? Like it's a little bit of a break from the temporal reality of the show itself.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's definitely true. And I also think from like a TV watching point of view, the fact that all three of us bumped a little harder in the flashback the first time and then not the second is that it's like one of those. The reason we don't like an entire flashback episode as a penultimate of a season is usually it halts the action and you're like, I was watching that.

[Chris Ryan]

And now I have to like before the penultimate episode ends on some sort of cliffhanger.

[Joanna Robinson]

And then we have to like somehow.

[Chris Ryan]

Have to wait two weeks to get to this.

[Joanna Robinson]

And that's not quite what happens here. And then also like, because we, you know, because we had already seen to the end of this episode to then go back and watch like we had already. We didn't feel like it was disrupting something because we knew we would come back to the melee and get all the time.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. You're confident you're heading into this, like, astonishing final test. 10, 12, 13, whatever it was. Minutes that, like, Dickensian quality of their youths. You know, the crawl space that they tuck down into. I did like seeing that as well. I mean, like you said, King's Landing. Okay. It's always fun to see the red keeping the distance. Flea Bottom always fucked up in some capacity. No matter where we are in time. When Dunk, in the novella, he's taking the initial blows, you know, the lance, the blow to the head. And one of the things he thinks is Dunk, the lunk thought he could be a knight, which always gives me a chill. It's such a sad moment. He's worried about everything.

[Chris Ryan]

I'm going to die out here.

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, no, Just, like, the shame of it. Like, why did I think I could do this? Why did I think this could be my life? And then the fact that he emerges at the end, that he wins, but what is the cost? And, like, the internal monologue of the shame he's feeling not only about himself, but, like, what might happen, the worry for other people around him. That's the one thing of just like, I think the idea of he had Rafe, then he had Arlen, then he had Egg, this one person who means so much to him. And, like, to your Raymond point, you know, coming in to help or seeing Lionel in the background, like, fleshing out the characters in Dunk's world who he would be devastated to in some way be culpable or feel culpable, to carry that guilt of something happening to them. I thought that was nice.

[Joanna Robinson]

I like that you say Dickensian, because I think this is a bit in the weeds. But I think another thing that the flashback really gives us is if you think back to the beginning of the season, we've got the innkeeper character who's like, what does attorney have to do with the price of Eg? Right? And the king, right now, Darren II is. Is a good king. And he's supposed to have, according to the lore, completely revamped the City Watch in a year. But it's been several years and the City Watch is still.

[Chris Ryan]

That's a corruption of it.

[Joanna Robinson]

He's supposed to have, like, cleaned up the streets of King's Landing. He's the good king. He's fixed everything. When you get into the reality of it. Absolutely not. It's still as corrupt as ever. So I love that we run into this a lot with House of the Dragon, but that contrast between what the history books have told this King did, he fixed everything in the streets of King's Landing and the reality of what the fuck Alistair is doing to these kids in the street.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. I mean, it's also just a great testament to the economy of this show, which we've heralded for like making the exact right choice and not wasting money and time doing other things. You don't have some expensive tracking shot all through King's Landing. You don't have, you know, a massive fake version of it. It's like this is the most important five by nine frame.

[Mallory Rubin]

Exactly.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

This is everything you need to know is that people are living on top of each other. That even when a City Watch person is shaking someone down, they get bumped into another person who's like blackout drunk or running from another crime or the.

[Joanna Robinson]

Pigs are right here. I really agree and I loved it. Just makes it all feel so much like harder and claustrophobic and like in comparison to. With love and respect for House of the Dragon. Like some of the. Some of the flea bottom stuff we've got in House of the Dragon, like this looks more like flea bottom. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

You know, it's like when you see like you're watching a show and it's like unnecessary drone to be like, great. So you're driving on a highway, like, you know, it's like, I don't need that. And what we get is what. What matters.

[Mallory Rubin]

I think like the. The often we would critique the opposite of that. The show, the show don't tell. We would long to see it and not just hear characters like talk about what they're thinking and feeling. But I think this was really an effective example of how sometimes tell don't show or the melding of telling and showing. Like hearing Dunk saying to Rafe, like, well, what if it's all shit every place, right? Cause he doesn't want to go. What if this is the best place there is? And then what we have seen, just this little glimpse of it and it's like, what a devastating insight into his circum and experiences so far. Because the only thing as he voices that matters is the person right across from him. But like, I loved that little bit of clarity into his psyche too. The fact that he was not sitting there as a young boy in the show, verse at least, and saying everywhere is amazing. And all of these idealistic views. I have about honor.

[Joanna Robinson]

And it wasn't like Ariel. I want to.

[Mallory Rubin]

I want more everywhere is probably horrible because every lived day of my life has taught me.

[Chris Ryan]

It's probably also like an indication to the extent that they're doing this of like a class critique where somebody born like him is probably like this is probably all I deserve and all I'm ever gonna to get.

[Mallory Rubin]

You know.

[Chris Ryan]

And I'm not like a boat ride to Dorne or wherever they were going to try and go to is not going to change my free cities.

[Joanna Robinson]

I also love, I, I love exactly your point about how narrow and confined what we got of of Flea Bottom was. But we also get to see Rafe and Dunk on the Kings Road, which they shot at the Giants Causeway, which they used in Game of Thrones, you know. So like we get to like be back on the King's Road where we saw Arya leave King's Landing for the first time dressed as a boy. Or where we saw Brienne say goodbye to Jamie when she and Pot are setting out. Like we seen that location. We've seen Arya and Brienne and Pod. Who are these characters we've been comparing them to? And here's Duncan Rafe just walking down.

[Mallory Rubin]

The road and they're not on the horses or in the wagons. They have to duck like they're the hobbits and Fellowship to nestle and hide. To hide from the Stokeworths sigil of brushes. Like it's so many great little details like that. And then we see the battle. We do see the battlefield. The regular. So why don't we do the battlefield.

[Chris Ryan]

And then we'll get into the melee, we'll get to the trial and I'll ask you the questions. I think a lot of people who are not book readers or one time viewers of this episode are probably like, I don't understand like how did Balor. We'll get to that. Yeah, they're on this battlefield. I think almost crucially, like the more significant scene to me was the pawn shop and the guy being like this.

[Joanna Robinson]

Is get these leathers out of here.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. Cuz it's Targaryen.

[Mallory Rubin]

So like is that no Damon Blackfire Black drag. Okay, so the Blackfire pretender.

[Chris Ryan]

If you guys want a tag team, it's fine. Like whatever. Like, but like what is. What's that battlefield and what, what are we witnessing the end of or the post game of?

[Joanna Robinson]

So the Battle of the Red Grass Field, which we've mentioned a couple times because it's where Baelor and Maekar really made their Reputations as the Hammer and the Anvil, that pincer attack that we talk about. So King's Landing's here. Red grass field is about here.

[Mallory Rubin]

We're white for it.

[Joanna Robinson]

There's a ridge right here that's important. And Maekar is coming down this way. Balor comes up this way and the forces get trapped in the middle.

[Chris Ryan]

Aren't you on Ken Burns American Revolution?

[Mallory Rubin]

I quite agree.

[Joanna Robinson]

More crucially, up on the ridge here is a character called Brendan Rivers. Blood Raven. Blood Raven, One of the sickest names, with his archers who are called the Raven's Teeth. Also extremely sick. So when we see the field just littered with all these arrows, it's because of this crucial moment in the battle where he got the high ground and just rained arrows and killed Daemon Blackfyre and killed his twins.

[Mallory Rubin]

And so Aegon and Aemond. Shout out if you've heard those names.

[Chris Ryan]

Before for any other Rivers. Thing is, he's not.

[Mallory Rubin]

But stay tuned, stay tuned.

[Joanna Robinson]

He'll be a character, but like you.

[Mallory Rubin]

Glimpsed him in a hallucinatory vision in.

[Joanna Robinson]

Hot D. But seeing the tattered Blackfyre banners, seeing the arrows everywhere, that is telling us this is the Battle of Redgrass.

[Chris Ryan]

The Targaryens have suppressed it.

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, it is a civil war. So Daemon Blackfyre is one of the great bastards of the prior King Aegon iv. So he is challenging his brother Daeron the Good, who Jo mentioned.

[Joanna Robinson]

The kingdom gets divided and the various houses. I was really surprised to see the phrase there, though.

[Mallory Rubin]

It was the thing with Riley about that.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's a weird choice.

[Mallory Rubin]

Interesting. Of all the sigils he could have put on that guy. That was interesting. Very odd. So another civil war like we've been talking about. I. I think another thing that's just worth noting, like, not only was this the decisive final battle because of the Deaths Joe mentioned, 10,000 people died here. So this is like one of the most fabled battles in Westerosi history. Not only because you have like songs that come out of it, like the Hammer and the Anvil or the story of the Raven's Teeth or Alice's three Fingers.

[Joanna Robinson]

She was there priming down. That's where she lost her other two fingers.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, but not fighting.

[Mallory Rubin]

Doing some other stuff.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Born bereft of fun. But what happened with the other one? You know, plowing equipment. Sure. You know you have Daemon and Ser Gway and Corbray. So you have two Valyrian steel swords, Lady Forlorn and Blackfyre. It's like fabled for all These reasons, but it's also fabled, infamous because so many people died. So the fact that it's the decisive battle, a thing has ended. Our characters, Dawn, Rafe, they are proximate to this carnage and historical moment. Yes. And, like, when they're. The fact that they're picking copper and horseshoes off the dead, it's like, think about what it would be like for people that young for that to be the thing they had to do to try to get silver stags to leave town.

[Joanna Robinson]

What's really fun about the tourney at Ashford Meadow and all of the sort of stories that we will get going on with Duncan Egg is that you will have houses here who are on the wrong side of this battle. We just have to be like, hello, we're here. Forget that we supported the Blackfyres. It's fine. Everything's fine.

[Mallory Rubin]

The flipping of. So, like, the normal. You know, the normal Targaryen sigil, the Black Field, the Red Dragon. So what Daemon Blackfyre did was just reverse the arms. There are all these, like, fun little details. I assume at some point we'll get the entire first Blackfyre rebellion as a show or a movie. One of the key parts about this was just the conversation that Rafe and Dunk have after, when he's like, the war's over, the war's over. And she says, no one forgets shit. You hurt someone, they hurt you back. We could name a million Game of Thrones characters that. That made us think of. It's very Littlefinger. And then eventually Sansa, of course, in a great fabled moment. There's no justice in the world, not unless we make it. But the thing it made me think of most was Yoren Willem. Willem, Willem. And then birthing Arya's list. Like, the way that you carry that need for vengeance inside of you and where it leads you. And sometimes characters do things for pure reasons and sometimes they don't. And this idea of the ripples being present there and of course, then present in the current storyline, the contemporary Trial of Seven, it's just like a. I think, a smart way to remind us that no matter where you are in time, people are doing things that we will feel the effects of later on.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, it's really cool.

[Joanna Robinson]

And I think the Blackfyre Rebellion is one of those stories that has. It's cropped up in the footnotes of things. It's cropped up in World of Ice and Fire, but it hasn't been fully written by George. So to see the battle, to see. I know. Great Point. But to see. To see the Battle of the Red Grass, even the aftermath of Battle of the Red Grass Field, where we didn't even know exactly where the red grass field was. And now we can slightly plot it from King's Landing.

[Mallory Rubin]

Right.

[Joanna Robinson]

I can say it was amazing. So that's, you know, there's like the.

[Chris Ryan]

Leo Pointer that with like Philadelphia and New Jersey. So I'm really impressed that you were able to do that. Okay.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

I just thought that moment in the pawn shop where he was like, this isn't worth anything.

[Joanna Robinson]

Get the out of here.

[Chris Ryan]

Really an interesting commentary on the relationship between Life goes on and like there are markets and oh my God, you.

[Joanna Robinson]

Can sand the sigil off that leather doesn't work anything.

[Mallory Rubin]

And more like I would be. It's a risk for me to have this. This is from the Pretender. So then you think about what does it mean?

[Chris Ryan]

That's like wearing an A hat when you're a film.

[Mallory Rubin]

Exactly. It's exactly the same as that. But like, you know, people, they declared an allegiance in Ashford. Right. So again, it's a little bit of a parallel on a comp there. What does it mean to say I am on this side? Especially if the person on the other side of you is like your brother or your cousin. Those things have real ramifications which we're.

[Joanna Robinson]

About to talk about. Brother versus brother.

[Chris Ryan]

Let's go to Ashford.

[Mallory Rubin]

This battle was sick, man.

[Chris Ryan]

You obviously both knew that this was coming. I think for some reason when I was watching the sort of. Obviously this is something that, that, you know, he's hiding behind thousands of years of Andals bullshit. Like Aryan pulls out of somewhere and is like, we're going to do try by seven. It seems kind of ceremonial. It's really about two guys, but we're going to have 14.

[Joanna Robinson]

You thought it was going to be a puppet show.

[Chris Ryan]

I didn't think it was going to be a puppet show. But I thought especially look at Baylor and him being just like, they're not going to touch me. Like they can't touch me because of their. Their duty to me supersedes this.

[Mallory Rubin]

Prince of the Blood.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And then when you get out there and people start swinging things around, stuff just goes bad.

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, the Kingsguard didn't touch him. But the only person who would really be brave enough to swing on Baelor is Maekar. And the only reason he swung on his brother is because Aerion was under attack. And that's why we get the line of my boy, my boy Aerion. To give Maekar justification for the sort of berserker flailing that he's doing in terms of tracking who is where. You've got your three white enamel Kingsguard just sort of riding back and forth of like a lot of shots. You've got the bright rose gold of Stefan Fossoway. You see a couple times, Lionel's antlers.

[Mallory Rubin]

Easiest to spot by far.

[Chris Ryan]

Bee's horse gets stabbed and he falls off, right?

[Joanna Robinson]

He falls off and his antlers break off. And so it's just like one sad little antler when he's holding Maekar back. Raymond comes through. You can see the red of his. Of his sort of like jerkin or whatever that is as he. As he comes through. But Harding and Beesbury are out right away, so you don't have to worry about tracking them at all. They're dead.

[Chris Ryan]

I had for a second, I was like confused about who. I mean, I knew who he would eventually fight, but I wasn't sure that Dunk was fighting Aryan the entire time.

[Mallory Rubin]

He was, I mean, hopefully the most distinct helm.

[Joanna Robinson]

One other person it might have been. Maekar knocks Dunk down, but mostly it's Arian.

[Chris Ryan]

That's the crazy thing is, like these guys are fighting and meanwhile there are still horses doing passes, like taking shots at them.

[Mallory Rubin]

I loved that part.

[Chris Ryan]

It's much more chaotic than I thought it was gonna be.

[Joanna Robinson]

Darren, though we do see him in the lineup and his green silk plume that is in the book is on his helmet. Yeah, he's down in the mud.

[Chris Ryan]

Well, it's also kind of like out of commission. Ironic because he's like, I'll take a hit in the helm and then I'll just sit this one out. And so were you able to spot first pass you saw Maekar hit Baelor.

[Joanna Robinson]

Or can I give you one hit, one hint? For people who are rewatching the tape, I'm just going to describe Maekar's armor because it is extremely metal. Right. It was their father who made the most fearsome appearance. However, black curved dragon teeth ran across his shoulders, along the crest of his helm and down his back. And the huge spike mace strapped to his saddle was a deadly looking a weapon as Dunk had ever seen. So anytime you see someone with ridged, teethy texture on them, that's Maekar. Baelor has that sort of like crenelated, sort of folded metal. And then Lionel with the antlers. So you see Maekar knock Baelor off his horse. Right. And then you see them fighting, or is it vice versa?

[Mallory Rubin]

I thought it was Baelor knocked Maekar off.

[Joanna Robinson]

But one of them knocks the other of the horse. You see Maekar take a swing at Baelor. But I actually thought that was like the front of his helm.

[Mallory Rubin]

It was. And that was an interesting one because I. And that was. That specifically was the. And Arion is the easiest target to spot because of the red spikes and he's basically always with Dunk. But the that moment where they are on foot so close and Aryon is in peril and as you said, Maekar is screaming Arion, my boy, my boy. And trying so hard to get through him and he, he thrusts up with the mace like up under. I had always thought that the hit would be to the back of the head. And there is one later that could.

[Joanna Robinson]

Just as easily be there two mornings later.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, but like the idea that you know, pushing that mace up, who knows. He again he's wearing his son's arm. Balor is wearing his son Valar's armor which is bring his own. He never intended to fight. He's not wearing a helm fitted for his head armor made for him. He's wearing his kids armor.

[Chris Ryan]

Seems like it probably would have happened anyway.

[Joanna Robinson]

Wait, can I tell you why I kind of hope that. That it's not hope, but I hope it's the later ones is because it was over.

[Mallory Rubin]

That's the thing.

[Joanna Robinson]

Arian had already conceded. And then you see Baelor and Lyonel holding Maekar back and Maekar flails swing. And that is in the back. And that is in the back. And so I kind of like it.

[Chris Ryan]

Better if it's like this was all like after the whistle over.

[Mallory Rubin]

I love kind of any of it like they're both so fucked up and tragic and George R.R. martian and Thronesian in the best, most kind of sick and disturbing way either. It's a humanizing thing for Maekar because he's trying to go reach and help his kid. Even though that kid is a piece of shit. That's like something that could soften you just a touch. If it's after Aryan has yielded, then it's like oh my God. A matter of seconds. Just like Egg Egg stops that horn from blowing by a millisecond Dunk. If that doesn't happen, it's done. Dunk has lost.

[Chris Ryan]

The cool thing about the like the reason why I was like I was anticipating this being a little bit more ceremonial or a little bit more mannered is that like I almost like the idea of like quite literally and then you know, as a storytelling device Fog of war and that this got too real, too fast for everyone involved. And they were all like, oh, like, I kind of thought Aryan was going to take this guy out in a second, and he didn't. And now we're all flailing at each other and that it just gets kind of chaotic and nobody can control it.

[Mallory Rubin]

I mean, Balor does say to his side at the start, like, they're going to try to kill you.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, right. Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

That warning is, like, issued and understood. Just like last episode when they learned it was a trial of seven, Raymond was like, Dunk. Like, that means lances of war. Morning stars. Like, this is not attorney joust. This is the real shit. So everybody who's a part of this knows what could happen. But I think you're definitely right that the physical setting, the misty quality of the air, which, weirdly, even though Hardhome could not be more distinct from this in, like, every response, the two things I. The two battle comps I thought of most here were Battle of the Bastards because of kind of like the way the camera is used, but also, yeah, the, like, suffocating, oppressive.

[Joanna Robinson]

When the mud goes into his helm.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes. And then hearthome, just because of the. Obviously, that's supernatural. That's very distinct, but the pairing of, like, close combat between a couple figures we're focused on and then utter chaos around, including the fact that you can't see, in that case through the snow and the ice and the clouds. And here there's, like, obviously in a different form, a similar. Similar quality where it's just impossible for anybody to know if anyone else is okay. So you have their anxiety in addition to the real terror of what they're fending off in front of them.

[Joanna Robinson]

But to your point, Chris, I think there's an inherent truth to what you're saying, because really, if they had their wits about them, Maekar would have never swung that way on Baelor. They. They snipe, but he, like, he snipes at him a little bit, but they love each other.

[Chris Ryan]

Because I kind of thought it was going to be like a hockey fight where, like, two guys are going on it, but the rest of them are just pulling at each other's jerseys and.

[Mallory Rubin]

Are just like, all right, but time this happened. 13 out of the 14 guys died. You know, there's the hubris of that also.

[Chris Ryan]

Let's also talk about the significance of what Balor says to Dunk before he dies. So Balor comes into the tent, he's got some medical advice for how to.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, oil, wine, very Important not oil.

[Chris Ryan]

Demetalize Dun skin.

[Mallory Rubin]

I guess that sounds unpleasant. All the injuries seem bad and they all looked like they hurt, but the rip pushing your ring, your chainmail into.

[Chris Ryan]

Your flesh, I just feel like that's an infection.

[Mallory Rubin]

A no for me. Yeah, for sure.

[Joanna Robinson]

Not if you put boiling wine on it. Chris, have you tried it? And you know, holy Arlen had had some boiling wine, he would have been.

[Chris Ryan]

Dunk Benson to Balor. And it's just like, I'm your man. Like, I want to basically be, you know, your. Your bodyguard or whatever. I want to be in your coterie of. Of knights. And Balor grants him that through like.

[Joanna Robinson]

The pulp of his face.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes.

[Mallory Rubin]

He is fucked up.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yes.

[Chris Ryan]

And you know, I thought that was significant because, like, look like regardless of what happens next episode and what happens in the future.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Guys just maimed a prince. You know, like he gets his Aryan's uncle basically co signs him after. Yeah. Of course there's been like a trial and he wins the trial and like, his. The accusations are dropped.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

But Balor is like, you're a real one. And I wanted to know if there was.

[Mallory Rubin]

You're the best.

[Chris Ryan]

Any significance in the same way that Dunk is like, you guys weren't there, but Arlen made me a night. Would. Would there be a ripple effect of. There's only a couple of witnesses to Baylor saying what he said to Duncan.

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, I think what's really helpful here is that egg is there. And I mean, I don't know how much. And Raymond, Sir Raymond Foster way is there. I don't know how much good man Pate's word is gonna do in. In the court, but Pete might need.

[Mallory Rubin]

Some therapy after being the one to pull the helm off. We'll see what the.

[Joanna Robinson]

We will see what.

[Chris Ryan]

So it's so gross. It's like Fossil is looking like this and then the camera comes around and.

[Mallory Rubin]

You guys have had a lot of squelching in your. In your lives because you're covering industry, but you got some squelching.

[Joanna Robinson]

You love to work industry.

[Mallory Rubin]

I was having a great time with the season.

[Joanna Robinson]

Can I. Can I. I actually think they were quite restrained. Can I read this passage from the book to you? Okay. Dunk saw something red and wet fall out of the helm. Someone was screaming high and terrible against the bleak gray sky swayed a tall, tall prince in black armor with only half a skull. Okay, that all sounds right. He could see blood and pale bone beneath. And something else. Something blue, gray and pulpy.

[Mallory Rubin]

Not ideal.

[Joanna Robinson]

A queer, troubled look passed across Baelor Breakspeare's face like a cloud passing before a sun.

[Chris Ryan]

Somebody called Dr. Garcia. Get him down here.

[Joanna Robinson]

We need an adult in the room. He raised his hand, touched the back of his head with two fingers. Oh, so lightly. And then he fell, gray and pulpy.

[Chris Ryan]

How many innings could Baylor have gone if they had kept the helmet on?

[Mallory Rubin]

I mean, you. I don't know how brains work because I'm not a doctor or a scientist. But, like, could he have gone forever.

[Joanna Robinson]

If he's also not a doctor?

[Chris Ryan]

Where they're like, you can't injure your hamstring anymore, so you can keep playing.

[Mallory Rubin]

I suspect that's not how, like, synapses and neurons firing the brain actually work. But again, I don't know. He was already slurring.

[Joanna Robinson]

His fingers are. My fingers feel like wood. Like, I don't think. I don't think that helmet was gonna help me.

[Chris Ryan]

Hit me with a Morningstar and see how many pods I could do.

[Mallory Rubin]

Okay, like, do you want to do it in the maze? Do you want to die in a Phillies hat? We know. I think the answer.

[Joanna Robinson]

You can.

[Mallory Rubin]

You can. You can swap lids between. Between takes here, I think, Chris, to go back to what you were saying about the knighting thing a second ago, it reminds me of, like, Joe on the. What episode is this? 5. So on the. On the episode 4, Deep Dive did this really lovely job sketching out and talking about these mini nightings along the way. Right? Because we've been talking about, was Dunk really knighted by Saruland, does it matter? Et cetera. And these moments where things happen that even though thematically part of the point is the knighting that really matters is the choice the Dunk makes to do the right thing, right, to behave with honor. But the way this was framed inside of this show, directed and staged, was so the kneeling, but also Balor. And this is not how it's described in the novella, puts his hand right where a sword would be, on Dunk's shoulder. So it just felt like a visual rendering of Baelor, to your point, saying, and like the fact that there's basically this kinship of honor between them that they're both making that pledge to each other. It is so lovely and beautiful and obviously heightens the tragedy of this already very classic subversive death and difficult thing in a throne story. This is just an all timer.

[Joanna Robinson]

There's a line when Dunk is, with ringmail embedded in his flesh, is unsure if anyone helped him off the field or if he rolled himself off the field or whatever, says, in his own head, I am a knight. Now, in truth, he remembered wondering, am I a champion? Like, did this process make me a knight? Even if Ser Arlan didn't literally knight me? Is this one of those moments?

[Mallory Rubin]

And then to your point about where you go from here and what people make of this, like, I think to your Aryan point about he fucked up a prince, like, this is. This is sanctioned. Everything that happened on that field is valid, sure, but people will feel a certain way about it. Right? So, like, the other thing that's going through Dunk's mind, this idea of, like, okay, well, I'm a champion, but is this the way he would have wanted it to be? Of course not. Like, this thing that happened, this when Balor falls on him. You asked last week about Darren's dream, right? You're like, well, will we come back to.

[Joanna Robinson]

So here it is, the dragon balls.

[Mallory Rubin]

Because what Darren said to Dunk in episode four, I dreamed of you, they have a little exchange about how Darren doesn't remember that he's already told Dunk that I have seen you, sir, in a fire. And a dead dragon, a great beast with wings so large they could cover this meadow. It had fallen on top of you, but you were alive and the dragon was dead. Did I kill it? That I could not say. So does that dream also apply to other events in the canon? Like, that's always one of the fun things about dreams and prophecies, but undeniably, even if the answer is yes, it fits other things. It fits this and Baelor not only falling on Dunk, literalizing that moment, but the idea of the shadow of the wings. The idea of Baelor as a figure of such heft and consequence, and that the shadow of his death will be as big as the shadow of his life. Right? Like we've read the World of Ice and Fire quote before the first part of it. Few could doubt that Baelor Breakspear would be a great king, for he was the heart of chivalry and the soul of wisdom and came to serve his father most ably as he hand part we hadn't read yet was. But no man can know the will of the gods. Baylor Breakspear was cut down in his prime by his own brother.

[Chris Ryan]

I like this is the best thing about a author I have not read a word of George R.R. martin, so.

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, you've been in the Wikis, man. You know, I know.

[Chris Ryan]

I get. I get it. I get it. Game of Thrones is both a myth. And then Also a story of like happenstance and luck and. And people accidentally walking in on a brother and sister humping know that's how.

[Joanna Robinson]

Happens to the best of us.

[Chris Ryan]

That's how fucking Bran gets his third eye, man.

[Mallory Rubin]

You said that with real longing in your voice.

[Chris Ryan]

No, I'm just saying that like, you love those. Think about all the little things that happen to get Dunk, who is a squire for a hedge knight, to be the best friend of the of a prince and to be a knight fighting against Aryan in a tournament with Balor on his team. Think about all the little things that had to happen for that to happen.

[Joanna Robinson]

But.

[Chris Ryan]

But it was always gonna happen and it had to happen, you know, cause he was gonna. This is the one true night.

[Joanna Robinson]

I love that. I also am so like, as we talk about the way in which this story was rolled out, which is a question you asked at the end of episode three, like the Aegon reveal, you know, we were talking about how you could sit down and read this novella in one sitting if you wanted to. Or when all of these episodes are available, someone can just binge it. But what's true for the people who are coming to the story for the first time, watching it week for week. This is why I will always advocate for week to week is, is there's the ecstatic high that so many people felt at the end of last week's episode of like, here comes motherfucking Baelor. Breakspear. This guy, I love this guy. He's my new favorite. I love him so much.

[Chris Ryan]

There's no way the Hand of the.

[Joanna Robinson]

King could get killed and he's gonna be fine. And then one week later. But they had a whole week of that. And then one week later, his brain falls out, you know, but that's just.

[Mallory Rubin]

Right onto the floor. It's like a cantaloupe and it looks ripe and wonderful from the top. Then you pick it up and you're like, rotten.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, no, no.

[Chris Ryan]

Where are you going for cantaloupes?

[Mallory Rubin]

You know, I need some tips, I think, on selecting fresh fruit for both of you, two people who spend more time out in the world. I think that the ability that George R.R. martin has and the Thrones adaptations have to continue to give us this feeling, even though we have now seen this type of thing a number of times.

[Joanna Robinson]

The old Oprah Martell couldn't.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's like just one of the masterstrokes in the history of story and television. This novella, as we've mentioned a couple times, was written in 98, so it came between the first, a Song of Ice and Fire novel in Game of Thrones and the second, a Clash of Kings. Which means that for George and just the great tapestry of his tale telling, Balor is just after Ned in terms of the shock deaths like Robb and Cad and Oberyn and Jon. Spoilers. They're all later in terms of things that George will come up with. Balor's death is like an og just as his declaration last week was like an OG kind of coaching tree moment for George that influences a lot of what is to come for the people receiving it at home. Now you could be like immune to this having the kind of effect on.

[Chris Ryan]

You, but I think that that's why this show is good is because they played the orchestra, right? And he was. Yes, he was. For his limited amount of time on screen, you were just like, this is the guy.

[Joanna Robinson]

This is the guy. This is the one good guy. And now he's dead.

[Chris Ryan]

When we're in these meetings and. And Makar is like what the are we talking about? And like everybody else is being sort of rude and he's nice and when it's. When this guy is going to lose on a technicality, he puts on his kids armor to step in and do something about it. And that kind of selflessness gets punished for the most part.

[Mallory Rubin]

And that's another thing George does.

[Chris Ryan]

George's.

[Mallory Rubin]

What did you guys think to that point? Because we got a couple very deliberate and interesting lines from people on Baylor and Dunk's side kind of putting a little bit of a. Oh, a little bead of like a question out in the ether, right? The, the kingsguard gambit now we love.

[Joanna Robinson]

Is that chivalrous.

[Mallory Rubin]

We love a gm, we love a coach, we love a player coach, we love a five star recruit who, who inks up on signing day. But that question, like is it honorable? And then everything Lionel, the mad Knight, everything Lionel says of like, mother loved you best. Mother loved you best.

[Joanna Robinson]

Huh?

[Chris Ryan]

Like the little notes, this goes to the larger. Like the Targaryens that people can. People feel like they can talk shit. People feel like they can say something a little bit out of pocket about the Targaryens at time the same point. No dragons.

[Joanna Robinson]

Be vigilant, don't die. That's what he said. I just said it to himself in the mirror. Can I call out one thing we've been noting like as we consider this show in the sort of Game of Thrones hall of fame and we've talked about how this is like a smaller show on A smaller budget. I want to shout out in this episode the clarity of the act. Like, despite us having to rewind the tape a few times, you know what's happening with Aryan and Dunk, and you can see what's happening. So I didn't have a doubt of about, like, the main story of what's happening on the melee in the field as I was watching it. That's important. Game of Thrones hasn't always gotten that right. And then also, I want to shout out the sound design in this episode, because there's this line in this section where Dunk says. Because we're only in Dunk's point of view. And it's like he's got his helm on. There's mud in it, whatever. And it says the noise of the crowd was no more than the crash of distant waves. And there's just these moments when, you know, Dunk has had his bell rung so many times. And then Aryan's talking. It almost sounds like a monster is talking. His voice is all distorted. When the sound of the crowd comes in, when the whole crowd is shouting, rudy, Rudy.

[Mallory Rubin]

Like, it's just.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's great sound design stuff in this episode.

[Chris Ryan]

Excellent episode. I'm very interested to see the aftermath of it because obviously, we have a full episode of. Okay, so that happened.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And also, obviously, like, this episode sidelines Dunk and Eggs respons relationship. And to some extent, it's been sidelined for two episodes ever since the big reveal. Because Egg is now a child again in. In the sort of world traveling that shot when.

[Mallory Rubin]

Because everybody is, like, preparing for the trial, and Egg is standing there because he is his squire, his Dunk squire, and he's holding the lance, and he could not possibly look smaller than he looks.

[Joanna Robinson]

Then he does a moment, a rapid, quick change into the velvets, and he's.

[Mallory Rubin]

In the stand really fast.

[Joanna Robinson]

That was great.

[Mallory Rubin]

I want to say Lebron, like. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Chris Ryan]

And then he runs back.

[Joanna Robinson]

But Dexter, Soul, Ansel, like, who's like. And Red, who are like, the only.

[Chris Ryan]

People in the just spoil something about a book that hasn't even been.

[Joanna Robinson]

And we will talk about that in the spoiler section of our podcast, I promise you. But it was a big deal. We will talk about that. But he did, like, he.

[Chris Ryan]

So dope.

[Joanna Robinson]

I know. I mean, it happens. I don't.

[Chris Ryan]

Did you see Books, bro?

[Joanna Robinson]

Did you see the video of it that.

[Chris Ryan]

Because, like, I didn't. I didn't see the video, but I heard that Peter Clafley was, like, trying to jump on a grenade.

[Joanna Robinson]

I will just say that they were on a talk show, and whatever they were doing on the talk show, they were making. Making puppets. So they're sitting there making puppets. Peter has, like, a puppet on his hand as he's going like this. It's, like, one of the best. It's got a big spoiler in it, but it's one of the best videos I've ever seen.

[Chris Ryan]

If you don't mind something that hasn't even been, like, written yet. Right, right.

[Joanna Robinson]

But it's the future of these characters. Okay. So if you don't want to know what happens to these characters, don't watch. Maybe watch it with the sound off.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

And you can just see Peter do this with a hand puppet. It's great.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, man. You know, on the. They are kind of separated. They. They are, yes. But I like that we still got little moments like the. The exchange. If you try to rob me and, like, I'll hunt you down with dogs. Like, they have inside jokes now.

[Chris Ryan]

You know, great chemistry.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's the.

[Mallory Rubin]

The shared language of a relationship formed in terms of relationships formed to another. It's literally a sentence. But Baylor saying about his, like, my brother's may smoke most like, and smiling at everybody right before he's about to drop dead with his brain slashing to the floor saying of his brother, he's strong. Like, he's proud.

[Chris Ryan]

There you go. I'm sure may be psyched about that. We died complimenting me.

[Mallory Rubin]

So obviously he probably would be psyched about that.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay, so next week, the finale, same time, same place. Come back next year.

[Mallory Rubin]

All right, fine. Yeah, Great. You solved it.

[Chris Ryan]

That's how TV works.

[Joanna Robinson]

Now, now.

[Chris Ryan]

Thank you to Joanna. Thank you to Mallory. Please listen to House of R. They go much more in depth about the books.

[Joanna Robinson]

Please listen to the watch.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, we check it out. We do our. We do our homework on that show right before the show starts. And we'll be back with you. Time next week for the finale of season one of Knight of Seven Kingdoms.

[Mallory Rubin]

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[Chris Ryan]

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