‘A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms’ Episode 6 Reactions | Talk the Thrones

Summary

House of R: ‘A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms’ Episode 6 Reactions | Talk the Thrones

Podcast: House of R
Hosts: Chris Ryan, Joanna Robinson, Mallory Rubin
Date: February 23, 2026
Episode: Reactions to the Season Finale of ‘A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms’

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Episode Overview

The House of R team—Chris Ryan, Joanna Robinson, and Mallory Rubin—reunite to break down the finale of "A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms." This wrap-up episode stands out for its quiet, reflective tone after the action-packed trial by seven, focusing on aftermath and emotional consequences for Dunk, Egg, Maekar, and the Targaryens. The hosts dive into character decisions, book differences, show adaptations, historical ripples, and tease what’s next for the series and the George R.R. Martin adaptation machine.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. A Different Kind of Finale ([02:38])

• The hosts immediately spotlight the finale's subdued atmosphere, noting its “100% less action” but “a lot of heart, emotional action.”
  • Mallory Rubin: "I thought this episode was beautiful, and that the tone and mood of reflection was just a delight." ([06:39])
• The aftermath of violence is intricately shown—all the fighters are limping, bloodied, showing the series’ commitment to consequences over spectacle.
  • Chris Ryan: “There’s an empty space in the middle of it because of what it costs to go through this stupid trial.” ([08:02])

2. Dunk, Egg, and the Targaryen Fallout ([03:54], [04:13], [05:32])

• Maekar, wracked with guilt over Baelor’s death, offers Dunk a place as Aegon’s mentor at Summerhall—an honor Dunk ultimately declines, preferring the road to castle life.
• Dunk’s refusal of Maekar and Lionel Baratheon’s offers reflect his independence, humility, and evolving sense of purpose.
  • Joanna Robinson (on Dunk's dream vs. his decision): “This was his dream… A lord is going to invite me, and I will not be homeless anymore... and he’s like, no, dragonflies or dragons, I’m choosing the road.” ([31:25])

3. Maekar and Dunk’s Powerful Exchange ([09:27], [09:37])

• The episode’s emotional centerpiece is the wrenching conversation between Maekar and Dunk, where Maekar, stripped raw, remarks on the loss of his last “boy," reflecting both personal shame and historical consequence.
  • Joanna Robinson: “He’s my last chance to get it right.” ([10:13])
  • Chris Ryan: “They’re going to whisper about you too.” ([09:27])
  • Mallory Rubin: “To be clear, all of his children are alive... But he’s lost Daeron to drink and disappointment, Arian to mania… Egg is his last chance.” ([10:15])

4. Egg’s Agency and the Departure from the Books ([11:00])

• Discussion on the show's deviation—Egg departs with Dunk on his own authority, not Maekar’s. In the books, Maekar gives permission.
  • Joanna Robinson: “Egg’s a little liar in this episode as consistently as ever… I don’t know how I feel about it. I think I want to wait and see how it plays out.” ([11:00])

5. War Clouds and Baratheon Subtext ([15:37], [16:05])

• Lionel Baratheon cryptically warns Dunk of war—playing on both Martin’s lore and TV foreshadowing.
  • Joanna Robinson: “This feels like a Game of Thrones reference… But it also is Ira Parker, like, pointing at the fences for...a potential story in a future season.” ([15:50])
• The vulnerability of House Targaryen is emphasized—no dragons and fractured unity, with references to the Blackfyre Rebellion and threats from within and without (Aryan sent across the Narrow Sea).
  • Mallory Rubin: “No dragons. And now the greatest knight of his age, Baelor Targaryen, is gone... The Trial of Seven just pitted this house against each other.” ([18:29]-[19:04])

6. Faith in Show-First Additions and Adaptation Talk ([22:14], [24:26])

• The hosts praise the show's expanded scenes (Lionel, Raymond, flashbacks) as true to the spirit of Martin.
  • Mallory Rubin: “All of the additions have felt so core and true to the theme and the heart that is the engine of the story…” ([24:58])
• Lengthy discussion on what happens if the show outpaces Martin’s printed tales, the challenges of adaptation, and the potential for George to pen scenes specifically for TV.
  • Joanna Robinson: “I wonder if George can be convinced to put aside whatever else he’s doing and maybe write some... scenes for them or something like that.” ([21:50])

7. Legacy, Storytelling, and Historical Weight ([27:17], [29:03], [40:59])

• Hosts reflect on Baelor’s death as a world-altering moment, echoing Martin’s own comments.
  • Joanna Robinson: “The death of Baelor Breakspear, who was next in line to the throne... would have been a very strong and very competent king who dies to defend the honor of an insignificant hedge knight. How is Westeros history different if Baelor does not die?” ([27:54])
• Scenes and flashbacks draw connections between oral tradition, mythmaking, and the future—Dunk moving from being told tales to becoming a legendary tale himself.
  • Mallory Rubin: “The fact that Dunk was kind of weaned on these stories from Arlen... and now Dunk is that story for other people... this story that will be shared and passed on is such an incredible, like, pivot point...” ([39:19], [41:15])

8. Humor, MVPs, and Character Moments ([06:15], [06:39], [12:16])

• Favorite scene: Lionel’s awkward, eager invitation to Dunk to “come to my cottage this summer,” with the hosts riffing hilariously on the subtext ([06:15]).
  • Joanna Robinson quoting Lionel: “‘Will you come to my cottage this summer? Don’t go to Summerhall. Come to my house. We’ll have so much fun. It’s so private. No one will know.’” ([06:15])
• Joanna names Sam Spruell (Maekar) her MVP: “Sam Sprull is just such an odd little goofball of a guy… but his delivery of ‘he’s my last boy’ or just all these moments… he was so good in this episode.” ([08:42])
• Discussion of Raymond Fossaway (“most likely to fall for a modern day phishing scheme”), green apples, and evolving show running jokes.

9. Adaptation and Future of 'Dunk and Egg' ([20:46], [22:14], [24:26])

• The hosts speculate about adaptation with limited source material, the risk of outpacing Martin, and the show's ability to invent within Martin’s world.
  • Joanna Robinson: “There’s three [novellas] that are printed and there were 13 other... adventure stories that he has informed Ira Parker of. Like, Dunk and Egg go to X... If he could just, like, write them a couple scenes per season, I think we could be cooking with gas, honestly.” ([24:02])

10. Needle Drops, Modern Touches, and Symbolism ([51:04])

• Surprise at the use of "16 Tons" by Tennessee Ernie Ford as a finale needle drop; the hosts puzzle over its thematic relevance to Dunk’s journey and the show’s labor/building themes.
  • Joanna Robinson: “Like, I was trying to thematically... is it just the point that, like, Dunk is big and he carries a lot of things?... That song is about... being like a coal miner who, like, you know, is in debt forever to the man.” ([51:07])

11. Humor & Memorable Quotes ([34:05], [43:09])

• Mallory Rubin (on Raymond Fossaway’s apples): “Green apples are fucking disgusting.” ([42:46])
• Playful banter about the possible spinoffs, crossover multiverses, and the enduring passion fans have for side characters—Rowan, Raymond, “Sweetfoot” the horse.
• Grogu vs. Egg as fantasy “sidekicks”: Joanna Robinson: “Aegon is just such the complete opposite of that. Like, Aegon is like, what if Grogu was actually a character?” ([45:40])

12. House of the Dragon: Anticipation and Comparison ([44:19], [45:06], [47:39])

• With House of the Dragon S3 on the horizon, the hosts weigh the cloudier, heavier tone of HotD against the warmth and charm of 'A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms,' noting that audience preference may diverge.
  • Joanna Robinson: “House of the Dragon does not really have that kind of character... these are, like, fucked up, twisted people... Which is not to say I’m not excited about House of the Dragon, but I can kind of see that as a reason... why people are less excited.” ([46:22])
• Mallory Rubin: “The fact that these things are so different will actually be part of what’s fun about it... when Andor came out... this feels really different...” ([49:27])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Recap & Finale Tone: [02:38]–[06:10]
• Favorite Scenes & Lionel’s Invite: [06:15]–[06:35]
• Maekar and Dunk’s Emotional Scene: [09:27]–[10:54]
• Egg’s Departure—Show vs Book: [11:00]–[12:16]
• Lionel Warns of War: [15:37]–[19:13]
• Series Adaptation Challenges: [20:46]–[24:26]
• Baelor’s Death and Westeros History: [27:17]–[29:03]
• Legacy and Storytelling: [39:19]–[41:15]
• Modern Needle Drop - “16 Tons”: [51:04]–[51:49]
• House of the Dragon Anticipation: [44:19]–[49:27]

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Notable Quotes

• Mallory Rubin, on adaptation: “All of the additions have felt so core and true to the theme and the heart that is the engine of the story…” ([24:58])
• Joanna Robinson, on Maekar: “He’s my last chance to get it right.” ([10:13])
• Chris Ryan, on reflection after violence: “There’s an empty space in the middle of it because of what it costs to go through this stupid trial.” ([08:02])
• Mallory Rubin, on storytelling: “The stories are before me and after me. Before you too...” ([41:15])
• Joanna Robinson, on adaptation without George text: “I wonder if George can be convinced to... maybe write some scenes for them or something like that.” ([21:50])
• Mallory Rubin, on the value of difference in spin-offs: “The fact that these things are so different will actually be part of what’s fun about it.” ([49:27])

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Final Thoughts

• The finale offers a reflective, emotional coda to the season—less about swordplay, more about the scars left behind, the price of honor, and the tension between longing for security and choosing the harder, lonelier road.
• The hosts agree this episode (and show) beautifully honors Martin’s world by expanding wisely, with care and heart—raising questions about fidelity to source material as the TV show inevitably outpaces it.
• Excitement and trepidation abound for next steps: House of the Dragon S3, more Dunk & Egg seasons, and whatever George Martin’s typwriter (or notepad) brings forth next.

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For listeners—whether you watched the episode or not—this House of R conversation is a thoughtful, witty, and impassioned look into what makes "A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms" sing, the joys and pitfalls of adaptation, and the unending allure of Westeros.

Transcript

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[Chris Ryan]

Hello and welcome to Talk the Thrones. My name is Chris Ryan. I am an [e-mail] and joining me in the studio is Joanna Robinson.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, hi. Hi.

[Chris Ryan]

And she's ready to hunt and hawk and sail and make merry. It's Mallory Rubin. We are here to break down the season finale of A Night of the Seven Kingdoms right after this. Welcome back. It's great to see you guys once more. I'm sad it's going to be three months and we'll be back again, you know, and we also work together, so I do.

[Joanna Robinson]

We do see each other all the time.

[Chris Ryan]

I see you a lot.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's true.

[Chris Ryan]

Programming reminders. You are listening to us on the almighty house of our feed on Spotify. Probably. Maybe elsewhere, but it's probably Spotify if you're being honest. And you can check out Mal and Joe's deep dive into this episode of the Night of the Seven Kingdoms in a couple days. Or all the episodes of A Night of the Seven Kingdoms.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's right.

[Chris Ryan]

You can also listen to me and Andy casually discuss the show on the

[Joanna Robinson]

Watch show you guys are in.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, I'm. I'm trying. Doing my best. Do you know what I mean? I'm a salesman. We stumbled over the flashback, but it's not a big deal. So Andy and I are on the watch Mal and Joe here on the Alice of our feed. You can also watch Mal and Joe on the Ringerverse YouTube channel.

[Mallory Rubin]

That's right.

[Chris Ryan]

All right, let's get into the recap of this wonderful finale episode. But a little Bit different than everything we've seen come before it. You know, a little bit of a different beat.

[Mallory Rubin]

Dakota.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, yeah, we'll get into it right after this.

[Joanna Robinson]

All right.

[Chris Ryan]

The Morrow episode with like about 100% less action. But that's okay because it had a

[Mallory Rubin]

lot of heart emotional action.

[Chris Ryan]

The day after Dunk is either somewhat bruised up or dying depending on how much you how much stock you put in Lionel Baratheon's terrible maester.

[Mallory Rubin]

That guy can't even fix an itchy asshole. So not much stock.

[Joanna Robinson]

But what do you, what do you take of his method of like rubbing his finger in the wood smelling?

[Chris Ryan]

I don't think you make it.

[Mallory Rubin]

I feel like in Westeros the one thing you prepare to account for is an itchy asshole.

[Joanna Robinson]

Honestly. Gloves, hand, sanitation? No thank you.

[Chris Ryan]

LB wants Dunk to come with him to Storm's End and just let his freak flag fly man play with some hawks. But Dunk is like let me listen to Elliot Smith and feel bad about myself. Lionel mentions a war coming which I will ask our experts about later. But the takeaway here is that the vibes are bad. Makar looks beaten up about killing his brother. Valar is bummed about his dad dying in his armor. The only person with a smile on his face is Ray Fossway who is happy to have stuck it to his traitor ass cousin Steph.

[Joanna Robinson]

And

[Mallory Rubin]

yes, proven to be the character in Westeros most likely to fall for a modern day fishing scheme. I think we can now say that for sure.

[Joanna Robinson]

True. Loved in general. But I believe in Raymond Fossaway and Lady Rowan. I believe in them.

[Chris Ryan]

Duncan is summoned to meet with Makar and they talk a little bit of blame pie over Balor's death and then make our tries to get Duncan to become Aegon's mentor and move to Summerhall. And then Dunk would, you know, train with make our Master of Arms. Honestly, all things being equal, not a bad deal. Not a bad deal.

[Joanna Robinson]

You take that offer hawking with Lionel Baratheon.

[Chris Ryan]

I don't think Ed gets to go

[Mallory Rubin]

to Lionel offered to finish his training too.

[Chris Ryan]

You know Doug is done with princes though, no matter who asks him. Make our Dunk even in his cups. Darren who shows up at like the post trial feast.

[Mallory Rubin]

Wonderful new hairstyle by the way.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Oh ponytail. Ponytail era. No, that was a very important Beesbury parting double funeral.

[Chris Ryan]

Finally got a little bit of recognition. A feeling of brotherhood is flowing through Clan Targaryen as Egg ponders finishing what Dunk started during the trial and and cutting up what Little remains of his sadistic brother Aryan. Too bad their dad is just sitting there in Aryan's room. Eventually Dunk decides to take Egg on the road. Unbeknownst to make our who had some conditions in this apprenticeship that did not get met. He takes him away from the castles, his brothers, the cat torture. It's all for a life of in hopping and salt beef eating. They are free to explore the nine Kingdoms. I guess.

[Mallory Rubin]

Look at that.

[Chris Ryan]

Thus changing the name of this show.

[Mallory Rubin]

I hope not.

[Joanna Robinson]

The Vampireless dad

[Mallory Rubin]

and the Winter Soldier

[Chris Ryan]

renamed the Ringer NFL Draft show. And that's it.

[Mallory Rubin]

That renaming is coming next week.

[Chris Ryan]

There is a little coda to the coda of this episode which is basically make our being like where's Aegon Egg?

[Joanna Robinson]

Like that basically.

[Chris Ryan]

But it's too late because he's already on the road. Very reflective, very somber episode. Apparently there's jazz in Westeros. They opened the episode with a little bit of clarinet.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's like a comedy porn. It was like an episode of the Detectorists is how this episode started.

[Chris Ryan]

After the fireworks of the previous episode. Would you. What was your favorite moment of this one?

[Joanna Robinson]

I think it's when Lionel said. Wait, let me get the quote right. He says, will you come to my cottage this summer? Don't go to Summerhall. Come to my house. We'll have so much fun. It's so private. No one will know.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's very private.

[Joanna Robinson]

Maybe two. We'll grill.

[Mallory Rubin]

We can swap shirts.

[Joanna Robinson]

Just us. Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Great stuff.

[Chris Ryan]

What's your favorite moment?

[Mallory Rubin]

I loved it all. I thought this episode was beautiful and that the tone and mood of reflection was just a delight. I think that it's a tie for me between the conversations between Maekar and Dunk, which I thought were exquisite. And the Arlen flashbacks and this insight into the penny tree and what it represents. And the way that Arlen talked about stories which can go very right or very wrong in Game of Thrones. And I would love to circle back to and talk about at some point during today's discussion. But I thought that was just lovely.

[Joanna Robinson]

Did I feel at all directed at George? A knight always finishes his story.

[Chris Ryan]

That would be funny if there was

[Mallory Rubin]

a lot of encouragement.

[Chris Ryan]

Maybe two things for me.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

One, Daniel Ings amazing. Maybe the highest hit rate to minutes on screen of a television character and an actor in recent memory. Just the way he did that tree stump pitch to Dunk about coming to his house. And also just like the way he will do these little gestures to express frustration or exhaustion. And speaking of exhaustion the fact that all of the characters who participated in

[Joanna Robinson]

this trial are like, limping.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, they are all limping. They've all got like bruises and blood coming out of parts that shouldn't be bleeding.

[Joanna Robinson]

But only Lionel has a crutch made of antlers. Yes,

[Mallory Rubin]

like that while you're convalescing is frankly remarkable.

[Chris Ryan]

But this is why I think this show kind of stands a little bit. And, and this world in general, I think has often done a really good job of showing the consequences of violence as well as like the excitement of it is to have all these guys just be so laid out after this thing and really to have like an empty. There's an empty space in the middle of it because of what it costs to go through this stupid trial. And Arryon's dumb idea of like, you know, honoring the Andals with like a trial of the seven. And now we've lost the hand of the king and the heir apparat of the throne. So that's where I wanted to start.

[Mallory Rubin]

And Beesbury and Hardy.

[Joanna Robinson]

And Beesbury and Hardy I could not

[Chris Ryan]

pick out of a lineup.

[Joanna Robinson]

Can I just say, like, even with the bright yellow mustache, can I say my MVP of the episode, which is Sam Sproul as Maekar, Because I've been watching a lot of his interviews this week as he was talking about his perception of Maekar. And like, Sam Sproul is just such an odd little goofball of a guy. And so we see him like in Fargo or all these other things. We've seen him play these very severe, hard ass kind of characters and he's just like a kind of a weirdo. So that like. And I say that with like, love, but I just love hearing him talk about. He's like Maekar Baelor read all the books. Maekar didn't read all the books. Who we see Maekar reading in this episode. But like his delivery of like, he's my last boy or just like all these moments. I just thought he was so good in this episode.

[Chris Ryan]

I thought that whole scene with Dunk and him saying like, they're going to whisper about me for the rest of my life. And he's like, they're going to whisper about you too, was so cool.

[Mallory Rubin]

Incredible too, to be able to thread the needle of simultaneously like having Maekar issue yet another like, belittlement, right. Of the idea of a hedge knight and the life of a hedge knight while also giving the most human moment that he's given yet to this person.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right.

[Mallory Rubin]

And saying like, to be clear The. The will you have him, I thought had. Had just as much emotion. But that. That line that Joe mentioned that he's my last son, it's like all of his children are alive.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right.

[Mallory Rubin]

Just to be clear. But he's lost Darren to.

[Chris Ryan]

It's true.

[Mallory Rubin]

He's lost Darren to drink and to bitter disappointment.

[Joanna Robinson]

He's my last chance to get it right.

[Mallory Rubin]

She's lost Arian to basically mania, evil reputation and a body and shatters Aemond, beloved and blameless, always at the Citadel. And so Egg, the idea to say, like, okay, I have to confront the fact now that the last boy. I thought that moment. I can't wait to talk about the Aryan Egg scene. But when Maekar goes over and puts his hands on Egg's shoulder and then just like, sags back, leans back into his dad and they have that moment of tenderness together to say to Dank, basically, like, okay, you're saying he's got to be away from his family. And that's the very thing that Maekar has to confront is the only way to save the last boy that I

[Chris Ryan]

have is to get him as far away.

[Mallory Rubin]

To get him as far away from all of us as possible.

[Joanna Robinson]

But it's interesting that they make this choice to have this moment of like, he did not actually give Egg permission to go.

[Mallory Rubin]

What did you think of that? Because that's. That's an up.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's what I'm saying. It's not in the book. In the book, he does like, Egg's a little liar in this episode as. As consistently as ever. I don't know how I feel about it, actually. I. I think I want to wait and see how it plays out. Rip Maker, you would have loved adolescence.

[Chris Ryan]

Crying on your bed, my son. Yeah, I was curious about that whole rope a dope of like, Aegon being like, dad said, it's okay if I go. And then he's obviously got this little beat at the end.

[Joanna Robinson]

Like earlier in the episode when Duncan's like, were you spying? And he's like, no, no, I'm just like, you little.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

He describes him as unruly and like, it felt. It was a really interesting choice to make this clearly like a just something Egg decides to do. Even though Maekar has. Has decided not to accept Dunk's terms and Dunk's version of his initial pitch. I was like, revisiting the text and, you know, Maekar just walks away from the conversation with Dunk and then Egg shows up. It's really in the second novella in Sworn Sword. Where there are details that make it, like, seem that they are doing this with blessing and with the sanctioning and that, you know, it's not credible to me that, like, Maekar would not hunt them down, basically. So that's a little bit strange.

[Joanna Robinson]

I mean, that might be a part of the second season, possibly.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. Not to do too much, like, fanficing of it, but could it be possible that Maekar is almost like, I'm making a public show of this because I don't want people to think I gave my son away to that.

[Joanna Robinson]

Wasn't that read on that scene.

[Mallory Rubin]

But that would fit, though, with, like, in general, the idea of needing to keep his identity a secret. I don't mind that at all. I think there's just a lot of kind of very fascinating. What are you willing to say about somebody when. What do you think? The fact that he goes to Dunk and then has to kind of, like, process what Dunk is saying. There's this line when he. Because he opens by talking, before he gets to egg, they talk about Balor, but before that he tells him about Aryan.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right.

[Mallory Rubin]

Like, I sent him away and Dunk is just silent. Like, what is he supposed to say to this? You know? And in the book, there's this great line that was not a thing you told a father of his son when Dunk is basically thinking in his head, like, I hope this guy never comes back. Great, he's gone. I hope he never comes back. But then he has to muster the courage to actually look at Carter in the face, the prince of Summerhall, Targaryen prince, and say, well, Darren probably never slept in a ditch. Narrator. He probably did, but that's. That's not in the way that he means. And every stake that Aryan ever had was thick and rare and bloody, like the lives that they have been accustomed to. When Macar saying, I don't want my son to, like, live the life of a peasant. Well, what if that's what could save him? Right.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right. But he's just sort of like. Yeah. In saying so, he's like, you up? Yeah. You fucked up two of your sons. The third one's at the Citadel. What are you going to do with this one? Let me have him.

[Chris Ryan]

I want to talk about this episode

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[Chris Ryan]

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[Mallory Rubin]

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[Joanna Robinson]

Lionel Baratheon?

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. Nothing gets me head up in a show than somebody being like, war is coming. Especially one of these. What was he talking about? To the extent that you feel comfortable

[Joanna Robinson]

discussing it, I have a couple things I can say, I think, which is one is this feels like a Game of Thrones reference, right? Because Robert Baratheon says to Ned Stark, there's a war coming. Ned. I don't know when or who will be fighting, but it's coming. This sort of like, let's be brothers.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay.

[Joanna Robinson]

So it's like a Baratheon thing to a certain extent. But also it is Ira Parker, like pointing at the fences for like a potential. It's like something that George hasn't written. I would say that is like hasn't fully. I mean, I feel like this is okay to say. Right. Go ahead. Okay.

[Mallory Rubin]

I don't know.

[Joanna Robinson]

You're making a face like I'm spoiling anything. I don't think I Think it's something that he's just sort of like, we can't talk about, obviously, because we don't want to spoil it's information that we, like, have. But George hasn't put in a novella. So I feel like this is Ira Parker saying, like, if I want to do this story in a future season, I'm just gonna drop a seed here.

[Chris Ryan]

So having not read it, my read on it was, I hate the Targaryens and now there are fewer of them.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, the only good dragon is a dead dragon. I mean, that's pretty accurate.

[Chris Ryan]

Only so many legs propping up the table at this point. And so this might be coming to a head soon.

[Mallory Rubin]

Which was, like, fascinating because, you know, we talked when Raymond said what he said to Dunk in the middle of the season about, like, incestuous aliens and, you know, their black men magic. And shocking that Raymond doesn't understand how impregnating a woman works, given that he told us in that scene that he learned about jizzing on tits and pulling out from his cousin Stefan. Amazing that Dunk the virgin knows more about women than Raymond. Great stuff in this episode.

[Chris Ryan]

This is a good example of me not remembering television shows.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's a great moment.

[Joanna Robinson]

You remember that great line when he said jizzing on tits?

[Chris Ryan]

Did he really say that?

[Mallory Rubin]

Finish on a woman's tits is what he said. So, like, pretty close. Yeah, pretty close. But the shock of hearing him say that, like, treasonous thing out loud about

[Chris Ryan]

there's nothing funnier than when you say something like that and then try to immediately try to get back into scholarship.

[Mallory Rubin]

I feel like this. It's just like this show more than any other show. It's the right place to do it because that's what they do inside of these episodes. But to hear a Baratheon of Storm's End, like a much more consequential figure with respect to House Fossoway, say something like that is notable. And to Jo's point about invoking Robert, which of course, how can it not make us think about Robert's rebel who ended the Targaryen dynasty, Robert Baratheon. And like, that's a long, long, long journey from Orys Baratheon beginning House Baratheon as Aegon the Conqueror's bastard half brother and Hand of the King and best friend. And a million things have to happen along the way. And with Robert, we all know it's Rhaegar and Lyanna and all of that, but what is the evolution of the relationship between these two? Great houses, like all of those moments are really interesting to cast a light on. But it also just gets back to the thing we've been talking about all season.

[Joanna Robinson]

Fl.

[Mallory Rubin]

No dragons. And now the greatest knight of his age, Baelor Targaryen, is gone.

[Joanna Robinson]

So there we were talking about this at the beginning of the season when Lionel was, like, basically wearing a crown, which is like a dicey thing to do. Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

So, like, I think when he says something like that, it's pointing to just a general state of play of, like, the Targaryens are vulnerable in a number of respects. They were already before this. That's why they're at Ashford in the first place, to do the diplomacy and maintain relationships. The fact that that vulnerability can come from outside or within. The Trial of Seven just pitted this house against each other.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yes.

[Mallory Rubin]

That matters for how people think about the fragility of that family. The Blackfyre rebellion was only 13 years ago. And the Blackfyre pretenders didn't all die.

[Chris Ryan]

Right.

[Mallory Rubin]

Bittersteel is in Essos right now.

[Joanna Robinson]

I actually thought that everybody knows who Bitter Steel is.

[Mallory Rubin]

I thought that they might change. I thought they might change. Sending Arian across the Narrow Sea. The Blackfyre canon wasn't written yet when that was in the novella. But now, like, what makes significant that he, like, Blackfire contenders or something significant

[Joanna Robinson]

that they snipped lease out of it?

[Mallory Rubin]

Maybe it's possible. Keep it. Keep it open on the geography front.

[Chris Ryan]

I was going to ask about his summer abroad.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. What do you think? You excited Aryan?

[Joanna Robinson]

You want that season? Just Aryan on the road.

[Mallory Rubin]

He's going to learn about himself a

[Joanna Robinson]

little Aryan semester at sea.

[Chris Ryan]

Learning a lot about himself and what he's capable of. No. I was curious about some of the places that are mentioned offhandedly because I don't know what happens in the second novella. But, like, this show is very, very, very strict about showing things. That Dunk sees an exception in this episode is a lot of egg pov.

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't think we're.

[Chris Ryan]

I don't think we're gonna get like, we're going with Eren on the road pov. Right.

[Joanna Robinson]

Like, what I think is really interesting is, like, you know, and people who have read the novellas have been asking us about this is like, a lot of the characters that are in this season aren't in the other two novellas that are published, you know, and so, like, will the show be able to resist having Danielle come back in, you know, or having Raymond Fossoway, who's a Huge popular hit. Like, you know, are we just gonna leave the Fossoways there? I mean, again, a lot of novellas, George has not written a lot of the story. But like season two, we're starting with a. Basically a whole new cast of characters if they, you know, follow strictly to the book.

[Chris Ryan]

So I have a question because I've seen, I think because of the success of this show and it is quite, quite a, quite a hit for especially its, its budget. The debate about needing George text to make a show is like kind of been stirred up again and people are relitigating the end of Game of Thrones and they're talking about House of Dragon and how little they have to work with. So what do you expect? He's going to have to embellish things. It's been interesting hearing the two of you talk over the course of this season. Often about pieces of internal monologue.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Happening on the pages of the novellas informing not only how you're watching the show, but just like the depth of the character and everything like that. I putting you on the spot. But in a world where this is now a once a year show.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

So by 2028 we are done with the printed works of Duncan Egg, correct?

[Joanna Robinson]

Yes.

[Chris Ryan]

What do you think? What do you think the challenges would be? Or do you think this could be a show that kind of broke the rule of you can write, you can do a George show without George text.

[Joanna Robinson]

I wonder if George can be convinced to put aside whatever else he's doing and maybe write some like scenes for them or something like that. Because like we've been talking about the novella format as an, like an adaptive choice and it's like so different to adapt a novella versus the sprawling A Song of Ice and Fire series or Fire and Blood, which is this like, you know, like Wikipedia page, odd history

[Mallory Rubin]

and the competing narrative.

[Joanna Robinson]

This episode is a really good example because this is a huge, hugely expanded upon the text episode. There's like three scenes that are from the book and the rest there's just a ton, like all of Raymond's stuff, all of Lionel's stuff, like being an eggs pov. Like all of this is expanded stuff. So there are certain scenes like Maekar and Dunk, which are in many ways word for word.

[Mallory Rubin]

Right.

[Joanna Robinson]

You know, or Dunk and Egg, like going on the road a bit. Like, you know, there are, there are. Or Valar and Dunk. Like there are things that are lifted directly from the text and when you get those lines, when you get some of Maekar's lines. It just really rings. But I think Ira Parker and his and his writing team did such a good job with these expanded scenes inside of this episode. So, like, we didn't love the flashback or I didn't like, love, love, love the flashback last week, which was a departure from the text. But this episode is as much a departure from the text as that was. And I think it. It feels like it rings true to me, honestly, all of these added scenes.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Because I guess I was reading a bit about how ironically reading about these books rather than reading them of the POV structure of Thrones, of those novels is one of the main reasons why he's been slowed down so much is because he's now created, like, two dozen POV things. He's over expanded and he over expanded and they were going through, like, all the things that got cut out of the actual show. I was like, oh, yeah, I remember talking about mouth that with Mal.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

But that doesn't necessarily have, like, these novellas are pretty tight. They're pretty strict. They've got two POVs. Correct. So theoretically, he could just be like. And then they do this and then they do that. And here's like, five things that they need to say to each other.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying is, like, he's outlined. I think it was like, 13 other. So there's three that are printed and there were 13 other sort of like, adventure stories that he has informed Ira Parker of. Like, Duncan A Go to X. And these are the bare. Perhaps these are the bare bones of the things that happen. And like I said, if he could just, like, write them a couple scenes per season, I think we could be cooking with gas, honestly.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, I think I agree. I definitely agree with what you're saying about the additions here. Feeling so true to the spirit of the thing that Arlen Flashback, one of my favorites. Not a thing in the end of this novella, the Aryan Maekar egg scene, definitionally not a scene from the novella because it's not from Dunk's point of view. I thought that was, like, exquisite. And really the bee coffin, the beat, most, perhaps most crucial, most importantly, the bee coffin. Your sweet applesauce brain.

[Joanna Robinson]

That was great.

[Mallory Rubin]

That is still an expansion off of a complete text, though. And so I don't know what the exact math is of how much. I do think, though, that Ira has a feel for this world and these characters. Not just the sensibility and voice, but the heart of the thing. All of the additions have felt so core and true. To the theme and the heart that is the engine of the story, that it does give me so much faith. I have been, I guess, maybe deluding myself since the end of Thrones into thinking that George would be so motivated by, like, seeing the kind of bastardization of the ending of his opus, you know, his great work, that it would inspire him. And I now really have felt that again this season, because the positivity, like the reanimation of a fan base around this show, if there's ever going to be something where he's like, and let me keep going with you. And now we're back.

[Chris Ryan]

It was so over, and now it's so back.

[Mallory Rubin]

And there are a lot of, like, canon points along the timeline for these characters that do exist. There are key events and key moments that are known. So that. And then there's a roadmap. Yeah, there's a roadmap. And, like, if. If we could just get a couple more. Couple more. They're only a couple hundred pages.

[Chris Ryan]

I'm so fascinated with the idea of, like. I mean, this is not really germane to recapping an episode of television, but I am having a good time talking about it, about whether or not he's, like, transcribing things that he's already decided. You know, he's like, I know where the Game of Thrones novels are going definitively and what happens to every single character, and it's just a matter of me sitting down.

[Joanna Robinson]

No, I know. I know for a fact he's changed his. Like, he's told people one thing several years ago and is now saying other things in the media.

[Chris Ryan]

And he might.

[Joanna Robinson]

And that's fine. He's allowed to change his mind.

[Chris Ryan]

Change his mind again because he didn't like the way the show ended.

[Joanna Robinson]

And that's like how writing works. You discover things as you go, you know, and so it's just sort of like he can't. He shouldn't be held accountable for exactly what he said five years ago about what was going to happen to a character. That's not how, like, art works or whatever. But for him to say now, for him to come out this year and say, like, well, I never intended this to happen in A Song of Ice and Fire. And you're like, okay, George, write it then.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. I mean, he's like, I. That guy who lives. Or I might let this person live or die and, you know, be interesting to see what he does with it. I'm trying to think if I had anything else specifically. You said that the Valar scene was in the books.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yes, yes.

[Chris Ryan]

Lovely scene.

[Mallory Rubin]

God, that was sad.

[Chris Ryan]

Fathers are supposed to watch their kids die in their armor.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's added, that's added, that's added.

[Mallory Rubin]

There you go.

[Joanna Robinson]

But I love. So in the text of that scene, which is like, you know. And then echoes into Dunk talking to Maekar about his foot versus a prince's life and all of that, which is hugely famous part of this story. But thinking about Valar talking about what a kind of king his father would have been. And now Valar is heir to the throne, right? So he's like, it's on me now. I have to be king. When my father was this sort of. He was the hammer. He was this great thing. He's Baelor Breakspeare. I'm just Valar. I've just got this one patch of white in my hair.

[Chris Ryan]

Stunned by Aryan at the tournament.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's true. But back in October 2022, George R.R. martin did like a Q and A with. With a Random House for his fans and they were asking him, like, what is a minor? This has been resurfaced this week. But, like, what is a minor moment that changed the course of Westerosi history? And he said in 2022, the death quote, the death of Baelor Breakspear, who was next in line to the throne and I think would have been a very strong and very competent king who dies to defend the honor of an insignificant hedge knight. How is Westeros history different if Baelor does not die? That would be very significant. So this is like, as we were talking about, like the tourney at Ashvin Meadow is famous forever because this is where Baelor Breakspear dies and the history of Westeros is forever changed because whoever as Maekar says the old king is, he's old, you know. And there's a line that's cut from the book that it's like Valar's next in line. People aren't going to be as excited about that as they were about Baelor. So, you know, and that's forever going to be on me and on you.

[Chris Ryan]

There's only one solution I can see.

[Joanna Robinson]

What's that?

[Chris Ryan]

Multiverse.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, yeah, great. It's gone fine. In every other world, Spider man goes

[Chris Ryan]

back in time to save Baelor. Damn.

[Joanna Robinson]

Hold on.

[Chris Ryan]

That's a pretty good idea.

[Mallory Rubin]

You're onto something here, man. Reach out to George. He's got time. I love the way that in the really macro, broad sense, just the whole history of Westeros, we talked about the description in Darren's dream, the wings casting this massive shadow over the meadow. So the quote Joe shared then you have something very intimate and specific for every person. Another thing that, like that. That foot idea, the people will whisper. This thing that ties Maekar and Dunk. You have what Valar says to Dunk. You have this conversation with Maekar. Like, the fact that Maekar is, like, so torn up and tortured. And you can feel the love for his brother. You can feel the regret and you can feel the shame, just as you can feel Dunk shame. But there's also this, like, again, I think, really human element of. And every time someone goes wrong, they're going to say, baelor would have done better. Like Baelor from the grave, his shadow looming large over all of them. His presence and his might is so hefty that it's like, how can any of them hope to exist in its shadow? And then the question is like, well, what do you do if you're May car and you're like, man, I didn't. The gods know I didn't mean to do it. But, like, people are always going to say that I meant to do this thing right. You have that line from Lionel to Dunk, come here and I'll love you like a brother or don't off and I'll hate you like a brother. And that's a through line of the season. Love your brother, hate your brother. You have Maekar and Baylor. You have this amazing Aryan egg dynamic

[Joanna Robinson]

with a fish knife.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, I can't wait to talk about that. That gave me chills. This element of that knife's edge. Fish, knife and flies otherwise, that you're always on with the people closest to you. And if you're Dunk and you're caring and you're saying, well, maybe one day will come when I have needed that foot, what do you do with your shame and your guilt and your despair? In the book, he's thinking of his scar and he's like, I can never. He can't ever look at the scar without thinking of Baelor, ever, right? And that's really sad and heavy, but does he let the guilt lead him to despair and destruction? Or does he find purpose in it? Can he find meaning in it? Can he say, well, like, if I had a foot and I had my hands and I had my teeth and look how I saved Hanzel. And there's a little bit of a one must, you know, need not intend harm to do it element to it. Another theme. But there's like the, okay, I helped. I was Able to help. And so now I can choose to help again.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think also this you mentioned, both Lionel and Maekar are like, come to the cottage. Come to my cottage and we'll train you. And I thought, I feel like, make our saying.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Oh, my God.

[Joanna Robinson]

I really love. I really love the exit. I really love Sam Sproul's delivery when he's like, you're. Sir Arlen did his best. Like, he's. It's a really soft, sweet delivery. Right. But he's like, but come on, we can. We can do better, you know? And then for Dunk to be like, I don't think you can, actually. And this being in such contrast to earlier in the season, when his, like, one hope out of all of this is, if I fight well, some lord may take me into his household. I will ride in noble company then and eat fresh meat every night in a castle hall and raise my pavilion at my own pavilion at Tourney's. But first I must do well. Like, this is what he. This was his dream. Yes. A lord is going to invite me, and I will not be homeless anymore. And then Lionel's like, come. Maker's like, come. And he's like, no, dragonflies are dragons. I'm choosing the road. And that's an affirmation of, like, to be cheesy. I'm enough.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

And my own. My own moral compass is the right one, I think.

[Chris Ryan]

Even though it doesn't happen in the same order of conversation. Well, actually, I guess it does. I was gonna say that I think that the crucial conversation might be with Darren then, because Darren tells him he was a glad child. Fishing.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Chris Ryan]

And the next thing, I think that

[Mallory Rubin]

we see the knife going to Arian,

[Chris Ryan]

but is it Egg noticing that his hair is growing in.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And it's like this kid has a few years before he gets poisoned.

[Joanna Robinson]

Exactly. We'll make him. We'll make a man out of him.

[Mallory Rubin]

That gave me a chill.

[Chris Ryan]

That's ultimately why I think Dunk does what he does.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

That whether or not Makar gave his sign off or not, you know, or whether or not that that's somewhat of a production or. Or not or whatever. I think ultimately he's like, this kid gets to be a kid for six or eight or nine years or however long it's gonna take before they get their claws into him.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right. Yeah. And he's not a prince. Right.

[Chris Ryan]

And he's not a prince. And. And what's gonna happen once that spins out? There's a. I. I thought that that Made the Darren. And it was also tragic because Darren's just like, I never had a fucking chance. Like, I'm just gonna drink myself to death.

[Joanna Robinson]

Did you like Darren's stitches on his face that he got?

[Chris Ryan]

I thought that was a little from

[Joanna Robinson]

his, like, own horse stepping.

[Chris Ryan]

I think he was just like, make sure the st people can tell.

[Joanna Robinson]

Give me, like, busted square.

[Chris Ryan]

You gotta get some drinks bought for me for this.

[Joanna Robinson]

There's a line in the book at the funeral. They put a hat on him at the funeral. Great hat that the Internet has loved for the last week. But there's a line from that scene where it says Egg's hair was growing back as bright as his brother's, right? And so when we get this moment when he sees himself in the mirror, which is like, when he decides to like. But, like, the tar is like thrumming like a horror movie in that moment.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's.

[Joanna Robinson]

And I just think that, like, we've already said so much about how good Dex has been this season, but, like, everything he had to bring to that, the, like, the menace. And, like, there's menace in that scene. And then there's also the point, like,

[Chris Ryan]

he doesn't get that much screen time in the last two and a half episodes, right. So he has to really make the most out of what he's got.

[Mallory Rubin]

The fact that when he's tapping the hair and seeing it, you can feel the terror, right? It's like this thing is rising inside of me that I. And I. When he said to dunk on that. That window bench earlier, like, maybe you're not the night, I thought it's like he sees the person. You know, think of him on the hillside earlier in the season. Like, I think I could be quite happy in a place like this. He is able to recognize, even at that age, that there is a path to him being a better version of himself. And it's not with these people. I thought that this Aryan scene, picking up that knife, going in, the tears pouring down his face, that. That ominous score, this is such a There but for the grace off the heels of Darren saying, well, that will. I'm sure we'll make a man of him. So this inevitability in what Darren says there. Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Which is something that Egg has said.

[Mallory Rubin]

He was a glad child. Like, we've talked about that. The way that Maester Aemond described in Game of Thrones when he's thinking back to his brother Egg, the jolly child. Like, this language is really intentional to draw this parallel. So it's like there but for the grace of what? Of a hedge knight? There. But for the grace of Dunk and Dunk. Pulling Egg into, like, it makes me really emotional. Like, it's the fact that this, like, chance meeting. I just thought this episode was great,

[Joanna Robinson]

and this is great. The episode's really good. I just have some beautiful. We're gonna have to save it for the deep dive. For the deep dive. But I just have some questions about some larger points that the show is making that. That slightly, I think, undercut that, but we can talk about.

[Chris Ryan]

Do you mean in terms of the text itself and, like, future stuff about George R.R. martin stuff or just, like, I. I

[Joanna Robinson]

mean, I think if it's not. I think the fortune teller stuff. Yeah, I think there's just some. Some stuff that they're. Some track that they're laying that that is not in the book. That I'm just sort of, like. That sort of changes this.

[Mallory Rubin]

But Dunk saved egg, but I think that makes it richer. Because it's like, if it's just like everything else in a George story, it's complex and it's nuanced, and, like, if the path to any choice or any decision that you make in your life is simple, then it's probably not gonna be interesting for us to watch.

[Joanna Robinson]

So, yeah, I think, you know, that I'm not asking for it to be simple, but I think they're like. It's just a different message than the one I always got from the novellas.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And that's the interesting thing about what happens when these shows break contain, which is like, if something's getting 13 million viewers a week, that's probably a larger slice of the population that have read the novellas. And we saw this happen with Game of Thrones. Maybe not in the. In ways in which it broke away from, like, the doctrine of the books, but I think different actors brought different things to different parts, and people were like, we should probably, like, keep this guy on screen a little bit if we can, you know, and so I. To your point about earlier, about, like, this incredible ensemble that they've put together who aren't really supposed to be in the next season. That is a really interesting question as to whether we'll get any Sam Sproul or Finn Bennett or Daniel Ings or could we get Birdie coming back like Garrett Dillahunt in season two of Deadly or whatever? Just recast. Why not, man? HBO has done it before.

[Mallory Rubin]

Flashbacks.

[Joanna Robinson]

If you could pick one side character, is it your guy Arian Brightflame? Who would you Most want them to survive.

[Chris Ryan]

I think I got it. You know what I mean? I love him, but I don't know if he's gonna be like, become like, a big reader.

[Mallory Rubin]

I assume you want the Rowan Raymond spin off immediately. Oh, I want Lionel naming her Rowan. Bizarre, given a central character's name. And

[Chris Ryan]

could they stop at Storm's End on their little adventure?

[Mallory Rubin]

I mean, at some point. Yeah, sure, at some point.

[Joanna Robinson]

I mean, I think Lionel will return at Avengers Doomsday. Like, don't worry about it.

[Chris Ryan]

Let me ask you about this Nine Kingdoms thing. Was that funny? I mean, I was just kind of like, is this just one of those things where, like, I don't know. I'm trying to think of, like, an actual real world comparison of this, but we're, you know, conventional wisdom or just like the phrase is seven Kingdoms, but it actually is nine. What happened there?

[Joanna Robinson]

The. Well, actually, I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, is that we, like, don't count Dorne, right? Usually. Because Dorne has not always been part of the Seven Kingdoms. And then we usually allied the Iron Islands and the Riverlands.

[Mallory Rubin]

Right? Yeah. I mean, Dorne in the fold now, Egg, as usual, fact checking and educating Dunk, I thought was the nice element of this. Like, the fact that Egg right away is like, I've got some stuff to teach you. I think that the, like, kind of Night's Watch vows equivalent of like, Realms of Men, you know, reminding Dunk or the reader or the viewer of like, well, you know, do you actually even understand, like, who you're supposed to protect or help or serve? What was interesting, the changing of the word mark, I thought was kind of hokey.

[Joanna Robinson]

I didn't like that. I just thought that it was like. I thought that was for the nerdy fans who have always been like, why

[Mallory Rubin]

is it you get that from the conversation?

[Joanna Robinson]

Why is it making the seven when it's. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And it's had a tongue in cheek attitude, like from pooping after the Game of Thrones theme or whatever. It's had a pretty tongue in cheek.

[Mallory Rubin]

I wonder how many people are gonna get ptsd. Thinking back to the Six Kingdoms from, again, the Thrones finale, you know, anytime we mention the exact number, it's gonna make us think of that on that front. On the Thrones finale when, you know, famously, the Universal had Tyrion insult an entire viewing public by invoking the power of story after shitting on our collective goodwill for two years, with a couple notable exceptions. You know, we love the episode called Seven Kingdoms, for example. I Thought that this Arlen memory. Have you heard this story before in Dunksang? Many times. Was so such a lovely way to tie a bow. Around this through line of the season. This. Tales that grow in the telling. A tall tale that became legend. Like the Arlen Weaning. First of all, the. Like, from where you. You know, many times. Okay. Have we heard this story many times, or is this gonna be different? Right. Part of the storytelling tradition very. Really made me think of Frodo and Sam. Like, the last pages are for you. When Arlen, the kind of, like, shade of Arlen and Sweetfoot peel off to the left of the screen and Dunk and Egg continue now, because it's like a true knight always finishes a story. We're in the tales of Dunk and Egg now it's like, your turn. The fact that Dunk was kind of weaned on these stories from Arlen, including about Baylor. Right. As we know from earlier in the season. And now Dunk is that story for other people. Like, like Joe said, what happened here at Ashford is codified as myth and legend. This, like, story that will be shared and passed on is such an incredible, like, pivot point to think about, not only in his life, in this relationship, but in the history of the canon and also this fictional universe. I just think it's like, a great way to kind of connect it to something beautiful. Like old Nan in actually in season one, saying to Bran, like, I can tell you about Ser Duncan the Tall. Right. But then, you know, and snarks and

[Joanna Robinson]

grumpkins, whatever you prefer.

[Mallory Rubin]

You know, one of my favorite lines that George has ever written is an old Nan line. Like my stories. No, my little lord, not mine. The stories are before me and after me. Before you too. And that when Thrones gets that right, with old Nan or with this, in this finale here, it is not only a beautiful thing inside of this world, but, like, for me, it's like, this is why I love this.

[Chris Ryan]

Getting to, like, the sort of thesis of what you're doing.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. And then you had the Tyrion thing on the other end of it. So I felt like this was a return into something kind of sacred. And I just really appreciated that.

[Joanna Robinson]

Two things. One, in that flashback, we get, like, confirmation that Dunk was never knighted, which we never get in the books. Right?

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

They're sitting there. The storm is breaking. Like, this is the night he dies. You know, this is it.

[Chris Ryan]

Very Harper Stern of junk to keep that a secret.

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't know if you recall, in the final season of Game of Thrones, but I honestly might not.

[Mallory Rubin]

Great.

[Chris Ryan]

That is one that has gotten a little.

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, this is about memory and forgetting.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Dany kind of forgot about the Iron Fleet in the final season of Game of Thrones. George R.R. martin kind of forgot about Sweet Foot. And they righted this wrong because, like, in the book, Dunk sells Sweet Foot as he does. And then that's it. He's like, feed her some oats, some apples. And he never goes back for her, and she never shows up again in the story. And so the fact that they're like. She went upstate to an orchard with Raymond Fossoway and she's just gonna eat green apples. What kind of apples, Mallory? Green apples for the rest of her life.

[Mallory Rubin]

I love Sweet Foot, so I'm thrilled to know she's at a great home with Raymond and Red. Now, Rowan. But I pray for the structural integrity of Sweetfoot's gums, because green apples are. Green apples are fucking disgusting.

[Chris Ryan]

What's wrong with green apples?

[Mallory Rubin]

I like them cooked in a pie.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay.

[Mallory Rubin]

But you could have a Honey Crisp or a Pink Lady Sugar Bee, and you're going with a Granny Smith.

[Chris Ryan]

Is. I remember you also listing apples at me.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

They're a lot. I promise you, I've.

[Mallory Rubin]

They're delicious.

[Joanna Robinson]

Here's a question I have for you, Chris, and maybe you could be the arbiter of this. If Mallory has gone on this green apple rant so many times in her life, if. If this has been such a key part of our friendship that she has a red apple tattooed on her and I have a green apple tattooed on me.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Would you say that she is not allowed to claim Raymond Fossoway of the Green Apple Fossoways as her own?

[Mallory Rubin]

I'm not allowed to like the character?

[Chris Ryan]

Well, I just.

[Mallory Rubin]

Because he's made a terrible choice about. And green is my favorite color, so I think a green apple's beautiful. Look at it.

[Chris Ryan]

I think.

[Mallory Rubin]

Tastes like shit.

[Chris Ryan]

I may side with Joe a little bit here. You know, tough a. I. I could see.

[Mallory Rubin]

I would suggest then writing in to Raymond and saying maybe you should choose

[Chris Ryan]

her email address.

[Mallory Rubin]

Probably, you know, wearing red apples still,

[Joanna Robinson]

you know that he's. They're camping.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. Pouring out the.

[Joanna Robinson]

She's pouring out the bed pan. She's wearing his shirt. We don't have a lot of clothing to go around. We're traveling light. He's definitely gonna have. Next time we see him, you know, he's gonna be in head to toe green.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's my favorite Color.

[Joanna Robinson]

I love green.

[Chris Ryan]

Green, yes.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Why don't we talk a little bit about House of the Dragon, which is coming up next?

[Joanna Robinson]

Faves.

[Chris Ryan]

The trailer for the third season dropped this week. We are now in a world where we only have to wait three months until another Game of Thrones show comes on. That will go for this is dream of two months. So we'll take us into almost the fall.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And. And then theoretically, I think we'll be back with Duncan Egg, I would imagine. I don't. I don't remember if Casey was talking about the. The Pit in that regard. So I. I imagine if I had to guess, we'll get Dunkin Egg in a similar ish time next year.

[Mallory Rubin]

That's wonderful.

[Chris Ryan]

What did this show do to your level of anticipation and also concern about House of the Dragon as a project and as a returning television show?

[Joanna Robinson]

So I should say, in case people are curious, we are going to do like a full, full deep, like, exhaustive deep dive. So this is just like sort of a trailer check in or whatever. But we were actually talking to Sean.

[Chris Ryan]

Have you done one about Mandalorian and Grogu?

[Joanna Robinson]

We have not.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay.

[Mallory Rubin]

You're not allowed to listen to it if we do, because you said you're not going to be engaging with that film.

[Chris Ryan]

Burrito is in it. You're not going to be engaging with that film. I'm not engaging with the film, but I'm talking about it every week.

[Mallory Rubin]

You're going to refuse to go. You're not going to see that movie.

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't know.

[Chris Ryan]

My wife really likes.

[Mallory Rubin]

That was my first thought. It's like, what about Phoebe?

[Chris Ryan]

She doesn't even know it's coming.

[Joanna Robinson]

Can I tell you that I did write down a Grogu note in my. In my notes for this episode? Because you remember when we got in a little bit of a fight when I said Grogu was a character, he was an accessory, which I still feel is true. And like, Aegon is just such the complete opposite of that. Like, Aegon is like, what if Grogu was actually a character? Do you know what I mean?

[Mallory Rubin]

He's a. I mean, he's a human. Co lead of the.

[Chris Ryan]

They should have, like, subtitles.

[Joanna Robinson]

The movie's called Mandalorian.

[Mallory Rubin]

Co lead of the movie.

[Joanna Robinson]

The movie's called Mandalorian and Grogu.

[Mallory Rubin]

I say that Grogu has even more expressive eyes than I. Bullshit.

[Chris Ryan]

Anyway, just telekinetic. He can teach himself how to talk and then start expressing his interior.

[Mallory Rubin]

I want them to hold off as long as possible on full sentences from Grogu. Let's just keep. Let's have him coo in for as long as he can.

[Joanna Robinson]

We were talking in fantasy about the hot D sort of anticipation last night, and this is something we were talking about, which is like, he prefers this show. And a lot of people are saying they prefer Night of the Seven Kingdoms to House of the Dragon. And I was saying, I think it's easier. I mean, there are many ways in which I think this show is executing on the highest. The Night of the Seven Kingdoms is really executing on a high level. But in terms of, like, the kind of show to sort of capture your heart. The kind of characters that in I of the Seven Kings, like your Raymond Fossoways and your dunks, your tanzels, your steely pates, like, these are sort of like men trying to do their best. People trying to do their best. Right. Going forward. Yeah, we had some of those characters inside of Game of Thrones, like your brand, your pods, your et cetera, et cetera. House of the Dragon does not really have that kind of character. So it's not even like the courtly intrigue, Targaryen lens. It's just sort of like these are, like, fucked up, twisted people. And I think especially since Paddy Considine left in season one, where he was like, like, messed up in a lot of ways, but kind of trying to do his best. And now I'm not sure we really have those characters anymore. Which is not to say I'm not excited about House of the Dragon, but I can kind of see that as a reason, a reason why people are. Are, like, less excited.

[Chris Ryan]

I think the answer probably for me would be to add, like, a little bit more like, camp or something to House the Dragon to. Yes, they could all be terrible, but could they have, like, a little bit more fun doing it? You know what I mean?

[Joanna Robinson]

Or you want more, like, dick jokes, theatricality.

[Chris Ryan]

I don't know. Like, it's so grim.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And it's so, like, tragic, but not in a kind of, like, within. There's just very few little flourishes. Like in Matt Smith kind of got relegated to wandering in and out of rooms by himself last season. So I'm hoping a lot for a Matt Smith reintegration into the gen pop thing. Honestly, I gotta say, after task, I

[Mallory Rubin]

was gonna say, stop pretending like you weren't just, like, zooming in dragon footprint. Come on. Like you needed to see anything else other than that.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. I have to admit that got me excited.

[Chris Ryan]

They should open a Philadelphia bar called the Dragon Footprint. And Kristen's just there every night.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, I love that Chris is like a fellow, like, lover of British television. Was the shot of James Norton?

[Chris Ryan]

Exciting, Deeply exciting. Mafia hive, rise up.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, well.

[Mallory Rubin]

And he's Team Green, just like you. Ormond Hightower is here. You know, you got all those green Hightower tents behind a nice close up shot of Tessarion, the blue queen dragon, who's beautiful and lovely. Darren the Daring is here. We talked about Darren all last season two. And you're like, I don't know who that is. And we're like, yeah. Cause he's not in the show. Here it is on the, the like, tonal distinction point that you guys are making. I. I definitely think HOTD is just not for everyone. And that's okay. And I agree that there's just like in A Night of the Seven Kingdoms, a show that is very, like, jovial and charm forward and hope centric, There was a lot of horrible shit that happened and a lot of despair and a lot of tragedy. I think that you're right that there's a way to inject the opposite into hotd. I kind of am like, I in my hope. What I feel personally, but my hope, maybe for the masses, is that it's fine if people don't like Hati. They don't need to be talked into liking it. The fact that these things are so different will actually be part of what's fun about it. The way that when Andor came out and it was such a. I mean, just an incredible masterpiece, but also like, wow, this feels really different. And then the real risk coming out of Andor is that the false takeaway is let me try to make Andor instead of let me try to make something that is specific and fully realized on its own. So I'm actually into this idea of an era where these Thrones shows feel really specific, specific to their own intention and different from each other.

[Chris Ryan]

I'm also, like, totally open to different, different showrunner creators takes on the world being completely different. And I had some. Some real highlights of season one. It's not like I'm completely out on the show, dude.

[Mallory Rubin]

In this trailer, like Gullet Battle, you see all those ships and all those dragons. This is gonna be sick.

[Joanna Robinson]

Here's my. Here's my hot take. Here's my hot take. It should be puppets. All of them.

[Mallory Rubin]

All the dragons should be puppets. The dragon puppet in this season of television was very good, and I think that you are. You should officially float it As a way to just make these seasons quicker, you know, if they're all puppets. I thought that seeing Gullet was electrifying just for a second here especially. Exactly. Especially given that it was not at the conclusion of season two, the way it really should have been and was meant to be. But hopefully this is how the healing can start.

[Chris Ryan]

You know, I don't gather there's any healing to be had on House of the Dragon.

[Joanna Robinson]

Can I say one more thing before we go? Of course. This episode ends with 16 tons by Tennessee Ernie Ford.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, the music is pro labor.

[Joanna Robinson]

Bop, like a very straight. Like I was trying to thematically. I mean, is it just the point that, like, Dunk is big and he carries a lot of things? Like, I don't like that song is about, you know, I owe my soul to the company store. It's about being like a coal miner who, like, you know, is in debt forever to the man. Like, I was having a hard time. I'm sure by the time this comes out, Ira Parker will have given an interview or Dan Roman will have given an interview about why they did it. But I was just like, I'm not anti it. I was just. And I'm not anti A modern. More modern needle drop at the end of the season. I was just having a. I love that song, but I was having a hard time connecting it.

[Chris Ryan]

I wouldn't overdo it if I were them with needle drops.

[Joanna Robinson]

Maybe like the end of. In the finale of every season, there's like, wire style.

[Mallory Rubin]

What do you guys think Aemond is listening to as he sits moodily on the iron throne? What are his preferred needle drops at this point?

[Joanna Robinson]

Nick Cave.

[Chris Ryan]

You know, late period Nick Cave. Okay, well, we can wrap it up there. It's been such a pleasure. I can't wait for the deep dive. Curious whether. Here's how much I'm going to keep myself in a little terrarium.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

What's your Google wiki?

[Chris Ryan]

I do feel like I did too much of it with hotd. Looked at too much stuff. You know what I mean? And now I'm kind of like, well, let's just see how this plays out. This. I just really enjoyed going into this and being like, like, you know, swept up in the wonder of it. Not looking to see, like, oh, what happens to this guy and what happens to this person?

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, and do you feel like you have. You have the luxury of staying patient because, you know you're going to be back in the world so soon, like, you're not going to have to wait Three years. Doesn't that help?

[Chris Ryan]

Yes, I can stay patient. Also, I've got a lot of other reading to do, you know, but none by George R.R.

[Joanna Robinson]

martin.

[Chris Ryan]

You know, if he ever starts. If he publishes another book. Okay, I'll start reading them.

[Mallory Rubin]

Have you read any of his blogs?

[Joanna Robinson]

George, did you hear that?

[Chris Ryan]

I did. I have.

[Mallory Rubin]

You've read like his Giants and Jets blogs. You read his Dan?

[Chris Ryan]

I find it very funny where he's just like, oof, what a busy one.

[Joanna Robinson]

Do you mean? Okay, we need to. We need to. We need to clarify the rules of this. Especially after if you read another Duncan Egg novella.

[Chris Ryan]

I'm also on the hook for so much stuff right now. I'm supposed to be watching Miyazaki movies. I'm supposed to be like, let's.

[Mallory Rubin]

You're supposed to be singing some original spring.

[Joanna Robinson]

Let's forget about Kiki's delivery service. A sentence I've never said in my entire life. And let's just say, is it a. Like a Duncan A novella?

[Chris Ryan]

No, it's. It's a Thrones novel.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's Winds of Winter. Yeah. Okay.

[Mallory Rubin]

Okay.

[Joanna Robinson]

George.

[Mallory Rubin]

I mean, what George.

[Chris Ryan]

Well, he needs every little bit of motivation he can get.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think this is going to be the thing that pushes him over the edge. Yeah. The CR Promise.

[Mallory Rubin]

He can't write from you.

[Chris Ryan]

A Kyler Murray could work out for the jets blog. It has to be something more than that.

[Mallory Rubin]

Kyler would be an interesting Jet. What do you think Sean would think of that?

[Chris Ryan]

I think we should end our season long discussion of a beautiful television show with Kyler Murray.

[Mallory Rubin]

Feels right.

[Chris Ryan]

Very ringing for Joanna Robinson. For Mallory Rubin, I'm Chris Ryan. Thank you so much to everybody who's worked on this show and helped make it what it is. Thanks for everybody for watching us on YouTube and on Spotify and comments.

[Mallory Rubin]

Arjuna, Jomi, Sarah, the whole crew.

[Chris Ryan]

The whole crew. Thank you so much and we will be back with you I guess in the summer for the Dragon. I don't know why I said it that way.

[Mallory Rubin]

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[Joanna Robinson]

Close your eyes.

[Mallory Rubin]

Exhale.

[Joanna Robinson]

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[Mallory Rubin]

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[Chris Ryan]

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[Mallory Rubin]

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