‘Daredevil: Born Again’ Season 2 Midseason Awards

Summary

House of R – ‘Daredevil: Born Again’ Season 2 Midseason Awards

Podcast: House of R, The Ringer
Hosts: Mallory Rubin & Joanna Robinson
Date: April 16, 2026
Main Topic: A midseason check-in and superlative awards for Daredevil: Born Again Season 2 (episodes 2–5)

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Episode Overview

Mallory Rubin and Joanna Robinson return for a midseason 'House of R' deep dive on Daredevil: Born Again Season 2. The duo doles out “superlative” awards, unpacks pivotal moments and characters (especially Bullseye/Dex and Foggy’s return), and delivers trademark analysis on everything from Marvel’s evolving TV strategy to the show’s infamous wigs. Energetic, irreverent, and insightful, this episode is a celebration of what's been working in the new Daredevil season—and what hasn't.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Marvelverse Updates & Context (05:09–16:17)

• Cinemacon News & Upcoming Projects:
  • Punisher: One Last Kill (May 12) trailer teases intense PTSD for Frank Castle.
  • Spider-Man: Brand New Day (July 31) includes Zendaya-centered promo speculation.
  • Avengers: Doomsday (Dec. 18) has a non-negotiable release date; rumors swirl about trailers and potential X-Men reveals (with Sadie Sink rumored as Jean Grey).
  • Vision Quest, Black Panther 3, Wonder Man season 2, and unknowns around X-Men and Blade are all on the radar.
  • Sony projects: Spider-Noir (May 25), Spider-Man: Beyond the Spider-Verse (June 4, 2027).
  • Spider-Verse visual buzz: "Just something about the pop of color... gives you that little skip in your stomach." (10:12 – Mallory)
• Disney/Marvel Layoffs:
  • Major cuts to Marvel Comics and especially to Marvel Studios' visual development (viz dev) department.
  • Joanna laments: "They gutted the visual development department… a real devastating development for the studio." (12:11)
  • Mallory: The cut "is very upsetting… also obviously concerning in terms of the quality of what we'll be able to get." (13:09)
  • Opportunity in shifting to more distinctive, less visually cohesive films (15:13).

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2. Daredevil: Born Again S2 – Overall Impressions (16:27–28:55)

• Seasonal Trajectory:
  • S2 episodes 2–3: Fine, but the show catches fire in episodes 4–5.
  • Joanna (on Bullseye’s re-center): “It’s really a Bullseye season.” (16:32)
  • Wilson Bethel (Dex, via interview): "It was frustrating... fans have been waiting... How different does it hit if out of the gate you get a fucking banger season of TV? ... But whatever, man, we made it. So here we are in season two of Born Again and we're really sort of cooking." (18:15)
  • Both hosts feel S2 is "more competent, comprehensive TV storytelling" than S1, though not matching Netflix’s original highs.
• Return to Core Daredevil Themes:
  • Foggy’s appearance, moral debates, and the Matt-Foggy-Dex triptych renew the show’s sense of self.
  • Meaningful use of Catholicism, morality, and the “born again” motif.

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3. Standout Characters & Performances

A. Bullseye/Dex (Wilson Bethel) (42:33–48:58)

• Dex Takes Center Stage:
  • Joanna: “Every second of that intro to episode 4 is just hit after hit after hit.” (43:02)
  • Dex’s charm and menace shine—"one of the most effortlessly charming people… to have him woo a neighbor, woo a cat..." (44:09)
• Character Evolution:
  • Show pivots Dex from repression/medication to full-blooded villain, leaning into Wilson Bethel’s real strengths as an actor.
  • Matt and Dex's dynamic in the tunnels/church: "What they're saying to each other... feels very authentic and believable." (47:28 – Mallory)
• Memorable Quotes:
  • “I'll have one banana milkshake.” / “You want whip?” / “Doesn't everybody?” (43:38, 43:42)
  • “First you try to kill me, then you try to save me, and I'm the one who needs help?” (50:14 – Dex to Matt)

B. Foggy (Elden Henson) & Flashbacks (32:56–36:52)

• Best Use of Flashbacks:
  • Light, essential: Matt & Foggy’s banter at work, “avocados at law” pre-Nelson & Murdock.
  • Joanna: "Foggy back, just sensational... the lightness was really important, too." (34:07)
  • Audio transitions and core relationship debates:
    • "Foggy talking to Matt about what is inside and why he makes his decisions... it's just the best." (35:24)
• Themes of Mercy & Justice:
  • “How about mercy? … second chances, redemption.” (35:01 – Foggy)
  • Their long-running debate about the law, mercy, and vigilantism is celebrated: “One of our favorite episodes of the show is Nelson v. Murdock…” (36:52)

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4. Kingpin, Vanessa & Emotional Stakes (22:19–27:18; 67:54–76:00)

• Kingpin-Vanessa Relationship:
  • D'Onofrio’s performance praised for channeling the anguish and loss upon Vanessa's death.
  • “Who am I without you? That is… why Fisk and this portrayal of Fisk… felt really undeniable…” (22:19 – Mallory)
  • Kingpin’s emotional unraveling after losing Vanessa, his quest for legacy, and how Daniel fits into his world.
• Vanessa Critique:
  • Joanna: “I don't think Eyelet Zurer has been, like, the strongest aspect of the show, and I'm kind of glad she's going to be gone.” (24:44)
• Saddest Moment:
  • Joanna’s pick: Daniel Blake’s heartbreak (69:34).
  • Mallory’s pick: Vanessa’s death and Kingpin’s devastation (74:41, 76:18):
    • “The way that through those tears, he asked her if she was thirsty or hungry…”

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5. Thematic & Category Awards

Best “She Can Fix Him” (Bullseye/Dex Moments) (42:44–49:19)

• Joanna: “Every single thing, every throw that he makes without looking, and it all hits…” (44:09)

Best Back-to-Church Beat (52:13–60:10)

• Clip: Dex reflects, "The worst part is when you think you've got it beat...." (52:36–52:57)
• Matt’s renewed focus on faith and penance, facing off with Dex in the pews.
• “For Matt... sitting there and, like, looking, and Dex is giving him... a sort of Lucifer in Paradise Lost argument about the nature of who we are…” (53:35 – Joanna)

Best Use of Courtroom Setting (61:10–66:54)

• Hopes for more in-future, especially with casting of Deidre Lovejoy (The Wire) as Chief Justice Waters.

Funniest Moments

• Foggy/Matt/Foot Stuff:
  • “Foggy talking to Matt about what's inside... is core Daredevil text.” (35:24 – Mallory)
• Street meat/hot dog scene with Buck and Daniel:
  • “I just got you to eat street meat. What do you think's in that thing?” (78:12 – Buck)

Most Compelling Ship (82:13–84:13)

• Dex & Matt, Dex/Matt/Karen ménage à trois, Buck & Heather, Daniel & Bibi.
• Mallory continues to ship Karen & Frank Castle (Punisher): “I will stay on this corner until there’s no hope left.” (84:42)

Sickest Fight (87:16–89:55)

• Dex vs. Matt fight with CD throwing (87:28).
• “Dex listening to a Discman… both really good at throwing things at each other…” (87:31–87:34)

Best/Worst Wigs – The Epic Wig Watch™ (94:10–101:04)

• “Might be the biggest, best Wig Watch... in the history of wigwatch.” (94:19 – Mallory)
• Detailed critique on Vanessa, Foggy, and especially Matt’s “plastic Lego hair” flashback wig.
• Joanna: “There was no cause for that atrocity on that handsome man's head… Truly tragic.” (101:04)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• On returning to core Daredevil themes:
  • “It gave me that old feeling again, like really doing Netflix Daredevil.” (19:59 – Mallory)
• On Season 2 improvement:
  • Wilson Bethel: “I wanted the quality of this season. Season two, Born Again, that's what I wanted for the first season…” (18:15, quoted by Joanna)
• On bringing back Foggy:
  • “Avocados at law is like a sort of cheap shot straight to my heart.” (34:09 – Joanna)
• On Bullseye’s charm:
  • “He is one of the most effortlessly charming people. So to have him woo a neighbor, woo a cat…” (44:09 – Joanna)
• On Kingpin’s loss:
  • “...the way his face just, like, crumples... direct to camera, like, oh my god.” (76:00 – Joanna)
• On the show’s evolution:
  • “Having the bravery to admit where you were off the mark and pivot to what’s working…” (28:55 – Joanna)
• On Marvel's visual direction:
  • “There’s an excitement... how creative and inventive can we get with the visual style of Marvel if we’re not trying to make everything look cohesive?” (15:29 – Joanna)
• On Dex’s development:
  • “What we're doing a bit… is kind of running back some of the Punisher–Daredevil dynamics of, like, no half-measures…” (51:49 – Joanna)
• On Daniel’s fate:
  • “Daniel Blake, too dumb to live, but also, like, too fun to get off the show. So keep him around.” (70:31 – Joanna)

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Intriguing Mysteries & Future Stakes (90:05–93:48)

• Watcher Sightings:
  • Intense fan speculation that the Watcher appeared (90:29).
  • Could “the grand design” refer to the Watcher, not just God?
• The Fate of Daniel, Bibi, Kingpin’s heir, and Jessica Jones:
  • Ongoing speculation about Daniel’s role as “heir,” his relationship with Bibi, and if Daniel is actually Kingpin’s son.
  • When will Jessica Jones finally appear?

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Final Thoughts: Tone and Flow

• Playful, vibrant, lovingly irreverent tone; classic ‘House of R’ deep-dive.
• Season 2 seen as a corrective and progression over Season 1, with strong new character work (especially for Dex/Bullseye) and recommitment to the story’s essential morality/religiosity.
• Running gags: pineapple juice, banana milkshakes, street meat, and, of course, “Wig Watch.”
• Infectious appreciation for the character/actor alchemy and in-jokes of the series (from "Buck Cashman" to “foot stuff”).

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For Listeners New and Old

If you haven't watched Daredevil: Born Again Season 2 or listened to the pod, you'll come away knowing:

• The midseason episodes are a return to form for Daredevil, balancing darkness, humor, and pathos.
• The rise of Dex/Bullseye, the restoration of Matt Murdock’s core traits, and the catharsis of Foggy’s return are driving the show—and the fandom—forward.
• Fashion/textural disasters, emotional gut-punches, and all things morally messy are celebrated with wit and warmth.

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Awards Summary Table

| Category | Winner(s) | Timestamp | |----------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------|--------------------------| | Best Flashback | Foggy & Matt at work | 33:29–36:52 | | She Can Fix Him (Bullseye) | Every moment of Dex, esp. banana milkshake scene | 43:38–45:32 | | Back to Church | Matt & Dex confrontation in the pews | 52:27–54:34 | | Courtroom Setting | Hope for future, hint via Chief Justice Waters | 61:10–66:54 | | Saddest Moment | Daniel Blake’s heartbreak / Vanessa’s death | 69:34 / 74:41–76:18 | | Best Ship | Dex & Matt (& Karen); Karen & Frank; Daniel & Bibi | 82:13–84:55 | | Sickest Fight | Matt vs. Dex (CD throw & brawl) | 87:16–89:55 | | Buck Cashman & Daniel Corner | Hot dog scene, car ride, dynamic as Fisk’s “child” | 77:08–81:46 | | Most Intriguing Mystery | The Watcher; Jessica Jones; Mr. Charles underutilization | 90:05–93:48 | | Wig Watch | Foggy, Vanessa, Matt’s “lego” wig, Disneyland Han Solo wigs | 94:10–101:52 |

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More Memorable Quotes (Speaker/Time)

• Mallory (on Netflix-era feeling): “Four had moments... most of which involved your guy [Bullseye]. Five gave me that old feeling again, like, really doing Netflix Daredevil.” (19:59)
• Joanna (on Vanessa): “I just don’t think [Vanessa, Eyelet Zurer] was working. And I think it's good when shows can just recognize something that's not working and... take them off the board.” (24:44)
• Mallory (on Kingpin): “Seeing him crying at his wife’s bedside table… all of that delicious brew.” (22:19)
• Joanna (on Daniel & Bibi): “He’s down so bad… But he’s so gone for her, just loves her... and it still feels good to be in her arms.” (69:30)
• Mallory (on Daniel): “Daniel Blake, too dumb to live, but also, like, too fun to get off the show. So keep him around.” (70:31)
• Joanna (on wigs): “There was no cause for that atrocity on that handsome man's head… it looked terrible, horrible, terrible, horrible.” (101:04)

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Concluding Sentiment

Mallory: “Guess what, Disney. Give us more Dex and I will give you more podcasts. That’s a promise from me to you.” (104:25)

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For Further Engagement

• Full episode available on Spotify/YouTube/Apple
• Send mailbag questions: [e-mail]
• Follow @houseofrpod on socials

Enjoy your banana milkshakes—and (for the truly blessed) an episode of ‘House of R’ with a little crying and coming at home.

Transcript

[A]

Foreign. And welcome to House of R. Uh huh. A Ringerverse podcast that's right. On the Ringer Podcast Network. I'm Mallory Rubin. Joining me today, she knows that nothing is certain where the mind meets the soul. It's Vanessa. Joanna Robinson.

[B]

Am I your Vanessa?

[A]

You are. You're the great love of my life. And I would be shattered and lost without you.

[B]

You would just crumple like a. Like a. Yeah. Unbaked flan if I were not around.

[A]

Exactly. And if you wanted pineapple juice, I would get it for you whether or not it made your lips tingle.

[B]

Can I just say, pineapple juice is so good.

[A]

Divine.

[B]

Apparently. Even if it made my lips tingle,

[A]

you'd want it anyway.

[B]

I'd want it anyway. If it makes Vanessa's. Vanessa's throat clothes or her lips blow up the way that, like a mango peel makes my lips explode, then maybe not. But a mere tingle sounds kind of nice in Change for pineapple Juice.

[A]

Who doesn't like a little tingle? Added bonus case you can't speak of tingles from the repeated mentions of Vanessa. We are here for a daredevil. Born Again Season two, mid season. Check in. We are going to hand out some awards, go through some superlatives. Because we're five episodes somehow into this season of television. The last couple of things have picked up. There's a lot to celebrate. She can fix him. Her boy Dex is really taking center stage. Some flashbacks that we'll talk about after we get past our spoiler warning. We will explain it all right after this. This episode of House of Ours presented to you by Target. Calling all trainers. Pokemon is celebrating 30 years and the party is at Target.

[B]

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[A]

We're talking over a hundred exclusive pieces you won't find anywhere else. Shirts, water bottles and more.

[B]

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[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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[B]

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[A]

We're going to be back for a couple pods next week. What are they going to be? Everyone will find out when we do.

[B]

I have some ideas.

[A]

Same. How can everybody follow along?

[B]

Great question. What if you just subscribe to the podcast? What if you just did that Great. On the podcast platform of your choice? We're also on YouTube. You can watch us on Spotify. You can, you know, see us on our beautiful set, watch the clips that we're about to play inside of this episode, all sorts of stuff. You can follow us on social. That's a good thing to do. House of our Pod, as Mallory had temporarily tattooed on her arm earlier this week on the social media platform of your choice. And then email us please. Hobbitsanddragonsmail.com the Inbox is always open.

[A]

It's always open.

[B]

Especially if you have some Benjamin Poindexer thoughts and feelings.

[A]

Yeah, send us your banana milkshake thoughts.

[B]

They're disgusting, delicious, revolting, wonderful, terrible.

[A]

You want whip? Doesn't everybody?

[B]

We'll see.

[A]

You gotta make the whipped cream by hand, though, if you're a diner that is touting the quality of your milkshakes. Now, I love whipped cream out of a canister as much as anybody, but that was a bit of a shock.

[B]

I didn't look at the canister. Was it like a ready whipped canister? Because sometimes at diner they keeping like, yeah, yeah. Let's hope it's that it's their original whip, but it's in like a thing that they keep frassy cold.

[A]

We'll have to go back and check the tape. That would be acceptable for sure. Okay. Spoiler warning. Mid season mark of Daredevil, born again. So if it's happened in today, we're going to focus in our awards on episodes two, three, four and five. That's what's eligible for selection, I think. I suspect we will be very heavy on episodes four and five. Correct is the prediction. But anything from the season to date could in theory come up. Anything from season one could in theory come up. If it happened in Netflix's Daredevil, it could in theory come up. If it's ever happened in Marvel, it could in theory come up. But we will be talking in some detail about episodes two through five. We are talking about Shoot the moon, the scales and the sword. Gloves off and the grand design. Only a few episodes left of season two of Born Again. It's going quickly.

[B]

Scales of the Sword is a really good episode title. That wasn't like my favorite episode of the season Obviously. But like it's an incredible episode title.

[A]

It really is quality stuff. Okay, we are going to do a little quick opening snapshot on some news in the Marvel verse and then we are going to get to our mid season awards. But first the opening snapshot. What's cooking?

[B]

Listen, as we're recording we are in Cinemacon territory. Which means the best and the brightest are gathered in Vegas to get get some sneak peeks at what's coming up. Marvel doesn't have their full blown presentation until tonight, so we're recording this Thursday morning. They will be presenting this evening. There might be, rumor has it there might be an Avengers Doomsday trailer that they dropped there or at least some, some prolonged footage. So that is interesting. Just something to keep an eye on. We obviously don't have any information exactly about that, but I thought it'd be a good moment to sort of check in on the slate. It's been a minute since we checked in on the slate. Right. So just to recap what we have upcoming.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

May 12 Punisher one last kill. Yeah, right.

[A]

Recent trailer drop.

[B]

Uh huh.

[A]

Really good for one last kill. Apps.

[B]

A lot of, a lot of PTSD. Seems like Frank is forever grappling with July 31st Spider Man. Brand new day.

[A]

Just some wonderful new posters recently released.

[B]

Sony had their presentation at Cinemacon, so some footage dropped there at Cinemacon from that film.

[A]

Did the poster with the just reflection of Zendaya in the Spider man eye mask do anything to influence your running theory clock of like how much Zendaya will actually be in that movie?

[B]

No, because do you remember the first Dune movie where Zendaya was heavily featured in every single trailer only to be barely in the movie. If you got Zendaya in your movie, you're gonna use it for the promo material, you know what I mean? All right. And then sometimes in the fall, allegedly your friendly neighborhood Spider Man Season 2, the Animated Show. December 18th Avengers Doomsday.

[A]

They put that clock up on the Internet and now they can't change it.

[B]

They are not moving. They have clarified that they are not. There was a rumor that they were moving. They're like we are not moving. It is done. So same day as Doom Part 3, Avengers Doomsday. Sometime in the fall, Winter Vision quest is coming. So that's exciting. There was some recent news about Joe Locke who plays Wiccan, of course, who that he signed. I mean I don't think this is really news. He signed a multi movie deal with Marvel. So like will they be using Wiccan in number of movies maybe. But this is just sort of like standard boilerplate at this point for Marvel is just sort of like you get cast in a Marvel project, they lock you down before your fee can go up, et cetera. And then of course, December 17, 2027, Avengers, Secret Wars. And that's all of the confirmed like in the near future dates that we have. And that's bananas, banana milkshakes.

[A]

Once we get the Spidey movie and confirm the widely held theory and I guess at this point just expectation that Sadie Sink is playing Jean Grey, then we can start announcing X Men stuff.

[B]

Well, they would announce an X Men movie anyway. But anyway, on the in production Black Panther 3, which is allegedly coming out 2028, Wonder Man Season 2 was announced obviously X Men. Question mark. We don't know when or what, but probably starring Sadie Sink. Did you see the Peter Kalaffi rumor?

[A]

That's exciting. I, I actually, I don't like it.

[B]

I don't want him for that.

[A]

Why?

[B]

I don't. So the rumor is that they're looking at him for Beast. Yeah, I don't know that I feel like. And you know, Peter Claffy is actually an incredibly intelligent man, but I don't know that he's giving like. Yeah, so scientist.

[A]

I like it. Let's see the range. Let's see the range.

[B]

Also, I don't know that I. I think bouncing between a Throne show and a Marvel show is sort of like. I understand. He's like, I want to get my bag while I can.

[A]

Yeah, sure, yeah.

[B]

But I don't know. I just kind of. I don't think that he should lock himself into a franchise when he's already holding on a franchise on TV just for the longevity of career. I feel like he should do some weird other stuff before he locks himself into something like that. Do you know what I mean?

[A]

Probably tough to pass on X Men

[B]

if it's offered perhaps the dump truck of money. Shang Chi. Allegedly there will be another Shang Chi Blade. Who the F knows? And Armor Wars. Who knows? So that's sort of the nebulously on the horizon information.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Sony Wise. May 25th. Spider Noir.

[A]

Can't wait.

[B]

Something we are bizarrely excited for.

[A]

Will you be watching every episode in both black and white and color? Will you consume it both ways?

[B]

No, but I will spend half of the episode dressed in black and white and then I will do a costume change and watch the other half while dressed in color.

[A]

Great.

[B]

So and then June 4, 2027, Spider Man beyond the Spider Verse. And once again, since Sony had their presentation at Cinemacon, some images came out. What did you make of the beyond the Spider verse glimpses that we saw?

[A]

I mean it's thrilling. It's one of the movies and franchises that is best equipped because of its like utterly original and fully realized visual palette to just give you that feeling of what you've missed the with, with one glimpse, like you just need to see one frame, one image. Obviously the characters that we're seeing together, but just something about the pop of color and the shapes and the geometry, right. It's like it gives you that little skip in your, in your stomach and your heart. So I can't wait for the third film in the, in the Spider Verse franchise. I love those movies. Everybody in the Ringerverse family loves those movies. The group chat was buzzing. We're hyped. We're hyped.

[B]

When. What year did the last one come out?

[A]

24. Is that right?

[B]

23.

[A]

Was it really 23?

[B]

Spider verse is 23. So four years.

[A]

What year is it now? 26.

[B]

26.

[A]

Has it been that long?

[B]

Yeah, according to the Google that I just did. So.

[A]

Boy, it's been a minute.

[B]

That's wild. Last but not least, we just wanted to mention. So Disney did a, a company wide, pretty aggressive layoff. I think over a thousand jobs they cut and Marvel was hit pretty hard. Like a number of editors at Marvel Comics since Marvel Comics are now under the auspices of Disney. Like so Marvel Comics got hit by this, but Marvel Studios, they gutted the visual development department, the vis dev department, which is like really sad because it was a very unique element of the Marvel movie making process. If you don't know what the visual development department was, it was this team of art, wonderful artists who would come up with the look and design and concept of the Marvel movies. There have been a back and forth in the Internet of like, are they being replaced by AI I do not think it has anything to do with AI I think it just has to do with, I mean it might slightly impact it, but I think it has

[A]

more to do with the fact that

[B]

they're dramatically reducing the Marvel slate. You, you know, Marvel is no longer printing money like they used to, though perhaps with Avengers Doomsday they will. Early reports are that it is quite good, et cetera, et cetera. So this is like a luxury of the Marvel Studios system was the visual development department where they had these artists who could come and like cook up ideas of costumes in advance and mashups between characters in advance. And stuff like that. And if you ever, you know, looked at a Marvel production book, like a Making of a Movie, they would just have these incredible pieces of art. So it's like a really sad moment for Marvel Studios. They're still having, they're going to have a skeleton crew in the Viz dev department. They're still going to use contractors, but they're not like, no longer this sort of robust full time artistic creative department inside of the studio, which is just like a. They've been there since, you know, some of those people have been there since Iron man. And that's just like a real devastating development, I think for the studio.

[A]

It's got quite, quite sad and like, obviously the visual aspects of, you know, all films, I mean, film is a visual medium, but comic book movies and comic book storytelling, it's as inextricable of a strand of DNA as any of the other things that draw people to these manifestations and renderings, bringing to life the characters, the relationships, the worlds that we care about so deeply and are attached to so deeply. And to simultaneously forge this connected, united experience across phases and sagas and time and inside of that, introduce in tandem with what is this characters franchise or what genre are we playing and where are we in time, where are we in the multiverse Specificity to be able to achieve that balance, that was one of the hallmarks of what made the Infinity Saga so undeniable. So for so many reasons that was so centered in the Marvel machine. And for that to be diminished is very upsetting and also obviously concerning in terms of the quality of what we'll be able to get.

[B]

Well, I think, you know, it might be indicative of, with, I don't know, the ongoing question of the multiverse saga, what is it? Is it concluding? Is it expanding? You know, will the X Men movies is the point after Doomsday and Secret wars to create an interconnected universe that is much less connected and a visual style that is sort of much more disparate. Is the tightly woven tapestry of the Infinity Saga not something that they can return to, want to return to, et cetera. So will that cohesive visual style be less important? And there's something potentially exciting about that because when you think about, I mean, like, are we ever gonna get Blade? I don't know. But like some of the various ideas that we've heard about Blade over the years all sound like we could get like a really cool, distinctively different looking film.

[A]

Yeah, for sure.

[B]

So there's, there's an excitement in that, you know, in Talking about like Spider Noir or something like that, or Spider Verse. Like, how creative and inventive can we get with the, the visual style of Marvel if we're not trying to make everything look quite as cohesive? There's opportunity, no question, you know?

[A]

Yeah, absolutely.

[B]

That's all I have to say about, you know, I. I just want to pour one out for the Viz dev department because they were just like a very cool, unusual element inside of the movie making machine. So, yeah,

[A]

we'll see if we get more news at a Cinemacon. Maybe we'll talk about a doomsday trailer in a couple days if we get one.

[B]

I don't think we'll get to see it if they show it in Vegas. So we'll only get descriptions of it, which is.

[A]

Then they'll release it later on the Internet. Though. I don't know if you've got a countdown clock running on your YouTube channel in perpetuity, you gotta put stuff up.

[B]

I feel like they're gonna hit it for Comic Con.

[A]

I mean, that's in months.

[B]

It's July.

[A]

That's in months. I still think they blew it. They should have done one a week. You know, you give us four in a row. One a week.

[B]

Why not one for every chair that they like?

[A]

They have enough characters in the movie to have done it, no question. Uh, okay, Daredevil. What are your overall thoughts at the mid season point? We last talked about this after the premiere.

[B]

Mm.

[A]

How have you found the season in the subsequent weeks?

[B]

So I thought episodes two and three were fine. Yeah. But I thought four and five were really good. I don't think it's just because I really like Bullseye as a character. So shout out to our guy Arjuna, who watched the screeners. We did not watch, you know, in advance, but Arjuna did when we got all the screeners from Marvel and he was like, joanna, it's really a Bullseye season. And I, like, didn't dare to dream to believe him, but I should have listened.

[A]

He never leads us astray, but he knows the power of that sentence over me.

[B]

Yeah. Um, so I think episodes four and five have been really good.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And. And just the fact that we can watch this season. And I don't feel quite as lost as I do, you know, thinking about the fact that it'll be like four years between Spider Verse movies. But we're getting a new Daredevil season every March. They've announced that season three is coming back next March. So this is right, this is if you want to Call it the pit approach to storytelling. You can. Or it's just how TV used to be made. Yeah, but it's just sort of like if we get a new Daredevil season, there's extreme value in that for me, in terms of feeling like I am in the story in an ongoing way, which is what television is supposed to be. And this is gonna be the first live action Marvel series to get a third season, which is wild, insane to contemplate, but that's where we are with Marvel television. So, you know, I'm really like. It's interesting. I have a quote from Wilson Bethel actually talking, who plays Dex, talking to Brandon Davis on his podcast. And he was talking about sort of season one versus season two. I just think this is a marked improvement over season one. And he said, quote, my only frustration. And I don't think I'm setting the world on fire with this comment, but I think I have so much respect for what the show is and has been, and I think the fans are deeply invested, have so much respect for the show, hold it in such high standard. It was frustrating for me a little bit that we had to settle it all in coming back with that first season. I wanted the quality of this season. Season two, Born Again, that's what I wanted for the first season. People have been waiting six, seven years. How different does it hit if out of the gate you get a fucking banger season of tv. And we had some good moments, but it was not that fucking level of, oh, shit, Daredevil's back. But whatever, man, we made it, you know, so he's like, here we are in season two of Born Again and we're really sort of cooking. So I, I agree. I think, you know, I don't think season two is matching the heights of. Of the Netflix seasons, but it is just feels like more competent, comprehensive TV storytelling, which, like, to the credit of the people running the show, they had to sort of like mishmash two concepts and two approaches together to get season one. So, like, season two, not the best television I've ever seen, but is at least has the clarity of like, one person, you know, one team's vision of the story that they want to tell. And that's really exciting to me.

[A]

Yeah, I feel very similarly. I, you know, we potted about episode one. I was not hugely enthusiastic about episodes two and three, so that was worrying. But I think that I. I thought four and five were, like, fantastic. Easily my favorite episodes of the series so far. And I thought that both of them were really Good. I thought that five was five is the first one. Four had moments in it like this and stretches, most of. Most of which involved your guy. Five was the first one. You know, for reasons we'll get into here. That gave me that old feeling again,

[B]

like, you know, really doing Netflix Daredevil.

[A]

Yeah, but it's like, it gets back to what we talked about throughout season one, where it's like, there's wisdom and power and reinvention, but when you in. In the process of forcefully seeking reinvention, abandon the thing that was special about what you made in the first place, that's, like, not always wise. Right. And I think that that was obviously, like, a little bit of an identity crisis in. In season one, and I don't know, it's just like seeing Foggy Back spoilers.

[B]

I mean, we already gave the spoiler warning.

[A]

Yeah, you received your spoiler warning at the top. It was really great and, like, really moving and the things that were the best.

[B]

Bullseye, who Matt is with Fog.

[A]

Yes, exactly. Who Matt is with Bullseye. Like, those dark mirrors and the conversations that they have. Matt being back in church in the last couple episodes. Like, we were talking so much about that in season one. Not just like, okay, we're missing certain actual, specific, familiar settings and character beats, but, like, a core aspect of who this person is and how he navigates his own and interrogates his own morality. So, like, that's present here in a way that just returns the show to its sense of self. Right.

[B]

And this idea of Born Again, like, this is a new Daredevil, like, he's. He's got a different approach or a different moral code or, you know, a different overall mental health status or whatever, or a different costume. But it's like, something that's interesting about this season is the way in which, like, the black is sort of flaking away on his costume and, you know, characters should change in television. Like, you don't. We're not watching a procedural. We're not watching, like, with Love and Respect Bones, where we need characters to just stay exactly as they are, as things go on, et cetera. But there is something about season one of Born Again where it was just hard to even recognize Matt Murdock inside of that show and what we're, you know, in his relationship with Heather, et cetera, et cetera. And so to surround him with different people, to get this glimpse inside this necessary tone, balance of the grim dark with the lightness, you know, which Foggy was essential to in the original series, is, you Know, I don't know how that will endure beyond a flashback episode, but it was really welcome here.

[A]

Yeah. And even I think also these episodes were much stronger to me on the Kingpin front as well, for his version of a similar reason, which is like rendering a full version of who a character is. That's always what the Netflix show did so spectacularly. You know, when we did our, like, celebration of our favorite moments from the original series, one of the moments that we both highlighted and talked about was, you know, that episode, season one, episode eight of the original series, Wilson, his plea to Vanessa to tell him that he was a good man. Right. And so I was in a, like, scenes from a marriage way, actually kind of like here for playing with the we're in marriage counseling. This is kind of rocky aspect of their relationship in season one as, like, a concept. But there was something in these last couple episodes about seeing Vanessa and Wilson in a place of like, who am I without you? That is like an undeniable beat of why Fisk and that this portrayal of Fisk, Vincent d' Onofrio's Fisk, inside of our consumption of Marvel stories over the last couple decades is, like, felt really undeniable. And when he's just corrupt politician, I just think that to me, the I'm trying to move weapons on the Northern stars is fundamentally uninteresting. Seeing him crying at his wife's bedside table after he. In an effort to save himself, and he told her not to come, and she did, because she. For all those reasons, he bashes that figurine and he sends that shard into her. You know, it's like all of that

[B]

delicious brew doesn't mix. Miss. So I think he would have hit her anyway. But the fact that got shot. Yeah. Kingpin. Yeah. With the assist. I just think my. My guy Dex knows all the angles, and he would have hit her anyway. But here's. I might say something controversial here. Even though I think the last two episodes were the best that Born Again has been, and even though I really found the Vanessa and Kingpin storyline animating in the Netflix series. Yeah, I don't think Eyelet zero has been, like, the strongest aspect of the show, and I'm kind of glad she's going to be gone. I just. When she got the shard in her head in episode four, I was like, you cheered? I was like, this better be. I don't think this character's working.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I thought her. Lily Taylor is a really welcome addition to the show, and I thought her team with the Governor was very good, but in general, Vanessa Queenpin has just not been working for me on this show. And so when she got the shard in her head, I was like, good, Good job, Dex. You took an element of the show that wasn't really working potentially off the table. And then when they had the fake out in episode five of, like, she might still be alive, I was like, no, please, I need this to be. And, like, I feel guilty saying that, but I just. I just don't think she was working. And I think it's good when shows can just recognize something that's not working and, like, have Nikki and Paolo die by spider bite, you know what I mean? Like, whatever you need to do. Whatever you need to do to take them off the board, you know? Yeah.

[A]

I mean, I don't think that this version of their relationship across the series to date ever came close to matching what we got in the original. But that's kind of why seeing the, like, anguish on the precipice of that loss was, like, so riveting to me.

[B]

D' Onofrio was so good. Yeah. Like the.

[A]

The kingpin that we're gonna get in the wake of that, especially because they spent those couple episodes reinforcing the, like, well, wait, why are you chasing this global reach? And should we just go to our island? No, you're Anakin Skywalker. Like, you. You don't like sand. You know, was. It was the right way. I think there's a way to watch the season and say that feels like a radical recalibration of the version of their relationship they. They gave us. But because we now know where it was building toward, I was grateful to get, like, a return to form and a reminder just of, like, kind of how they feel about each other and how they interact with each other before it was taken away. Because now we're. And that's kind of been the story of Born Again so far is, like, in the. Ultimately for the. The quality of the show and the life of the show coming every year. I. The. The year long thing is exciting for a lot of reasons. Obviously. We just don't get that with too many programs now. Something like, you know, we're five episodes in. Jessica Jones has been, like, alluded to and, like, Jess has been mentioned, but she's not here yet. It's less. I mean, she could be here as soon as next week. Right. That would be great. That's my hope. Who knows? There's a version of it where it's like, if it's only at the very end of the season, knowing that it will only be one year, not two, two and a half, three, until she's potentially more fully centered in the story, until Luke Cage is here, et cetera. It allows for, like, a level of patience as they tweak and toy.

[B]

And you too, Iron Fist?

[A]

Sure, yeah. Not exactly quite as high on my list, on my anticipated. But, yeah, like, I think that they have clearly identified the things that aren't working and that they need to change it can lead to this sort of, like, stuff incongruous, like, okay, every episode and a half, we're really obviously adjusting for a thing that wasn't working. But if the adjustment benefits the characters of the story, then it's worth it. And at some point, hopefully, equilibrium will be achieved.

[B]

We're calling the cast a bit. We're getting the actors closer to the modes that they are most suited for. I'm gonna talk a lot, actually, about Wilson Bethel and, like, what they've done with him in these episodes, obviously, but that. That actor in particular, I'm like, oh, they've identified what he's really good at, and actually, he's been kind of chafing against this other thing that he's had to do, actually, since they brought him on in season three of Daredevil for Netflix. And so I think that. I think having the bravery to admit where you were off the mark in certain things and just sort of pivot to what, Lean into strengths. Pivot to what? Working. Cull the cast a little bit, which they've been doing. You know, like, Cherry's not really here, you know, now Vanessa's off the board. We've had less Heather, you know, we're just sort of like, the BB Report is this other fun thing. You know, it's. It's these anonymous videos instead. And so that's just sort of like taking the building blocks and flipping them around and showing us the stronger version of it, which is really exciting.

[A]

Yeah. And it's, like, not like we had to lose everything. Right. Some things do work, like our guys, but Buck Cashman and Daniel Blake have never been thriving more than they are right now. And that's a new thing in this version of the show, in this era of the show. And, you know, we talked when we did the season two premiere episode about, like, how, you know, when you invoke the past, if the present is not as strong, it's a risk, actually. It reminds you of the better version of the thing you had before. There would have been an episode of this show earlier this season, certainly last season. We're cutting not with Buck and Daniel because they've always been great and we've always loved them, but like a comp to this cutting to Wesley to, like, remind us of basically, like, who did these new characters replace? Would have been like a real oh, no thing. But in the alchemy inside of this episode was like, all right, maybe we have found it at last. Which new things are working. Heather. You know, like, the Kirsten Heather scene on the street was probably my favorite Heather scene in a while because it kind of leaned into the thing that we talked about that's interesting about her repositioning as a character this season where it's like, until you've been through this thing, like, don't tell me what you would do with it. Right.

[B]

My favorite.

[A]

But I just, I'm like, I'm not missing more Heather, but pairing her with

[B]

Buck Cashman in that scene I thought was extremely good. He's carrying that conversation. But like, I was like, oh, yeah. I'm actually completely locked into this entire scene. Yeah. And that, you know, I know you. You love your guy Buck Cashman. I do.

[A]

And I love. And then when he. They were like, Daniel, is he the. The jester? And he's like, you know, I'm actually growing quite fond of him.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So that was funny.

[B]

That's what everyone says. Bibi said it too. He grows on you. Sure does.

[A]

I love him. Okay. Will Danielle and Buck come up in our awards today? Bull, Bullseye, Wolf, Foggy. I suspect so. I suspect so. This podcast is an excuse to celebrate all of our favorite daredevil bros. Here we go. It's time for the mid season awards.

[B]

This episode is brought to you by Weathertech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP and making a mess. You don't need Weathertech floor liners in the summer. Unless you hit the beach or go camping. Then you'd want a cargo liner or a road trip goes sideways. Ketchup goes rogue. Ice cream drips. Yeah, you'd be pretty happy about those Weathertech seat protectors. So just to be clear as the mud, you're inevitably going to step into the summer. You don't need WeatherTech unless you plan on doing summer. Visit weathertech.com today. Did you know about one in three people with plaque psoriasis may also develop psoriatic arthritis, which causes joint pain, stiffness and swelling? Does this sound like you listen to what it sounds like to be a million miles away? Trimfya gusocomab taken by injection is A prescription medicine for adults with moderate to severe plaque psoriasis who may benefit from taking injections or pills or phototherapy. And for adults with active psoriatic arthritis. Serious allergic reactions and increased risk of infections and liver problems may occur before treatment. Your dog, your doctor should check you for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu like symptoms or if you need a vaccine. Imagine being a million miles away. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Tremphya. Tap this ad to learn more about Tremphya, including important safety information. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable Internet means everything for your business and even this podcast. That's why I trust Spectrum Business. They keep companies of all sizes connected with Internet, advanced Wi Fi, phone, TV, mobile services +24.7 US based support. Millions of business owners already trust Spectrum business so visit spectrum.combusiness to learn more. Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas.

[A]

Our first one today because we are coming off of the Foggy flashback episode that we have been waiting for is big best use of flashbacks. Now I'm guessing from what you said earlier that you will not be going with something Vanessa centric here, but perhaps you'll surprise us. What is your pick?

[B]

The Vanessa stuff was fine. I just, I texted you about this. I thought her like CGI facelift was like really uncannily bad and her wigs were terrible. We'll talk more about wigs.

[A]

Oh, we got a whole wig watch category coming for you today. You're gonna cook.

[B]

No, it's foggy. I will give it to. I think you have something else Foggy related that is important to talk about. So I'll just give it to them, you know, sort of like being at their desks at work and just fucking around and talk about foot fetishes.

[A]

You know, Matt really revealing some stuff there.

[B]

Some foot stuff.

[A]

Some foot stuff. Do you think that Matt Murdock, what do you think he would make of Larys and Alice in Tytower?

[B]

What do you think this says about that scene where he walks home barefoot from she Hulk? His assignation was she Hulk?

[A]

Yeah, quite a bit. I mean that was already a wonderful and very memorable stretch. And here we go.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Little bit, little bit more.

[B]

Uh huh.

[A]

Just wonderful to have Foggy back. Just sensational.

[B]

Avocados at law is like a sort of cheap shot straight to my heart. Like, you know, really, really good stuff. But just having them back, you know, pre Nelson and Murdoch at their old job chafing against what they have to do. Their banter all of that sort of the lightness of it. There's. There's deeper stuff to get into, which I think is. Is what you'll be dwelling on, but I think the lightness was really important, too. Yeah.

[A]

Corona swinging some Coronas, stashing some cash. Yeah, they've saved up seventeen hundred dollars that Foggy's going to give away to Lionel. Yeah, well, you know, childhood neighbor, mean, cruel brother. What did you think of Foggy the Fembot as a cruel childhood nickname in sight?

[B]

I thought that was, like, a Disney version of, like, what they probably called him.

[A]

Oh, God, you're probably right. You're probably right. I have a clip. Play it.

[B]

Aren't you supposed to be the Catholic one here?

[A]

Oh, come on.

[B]

All right, so fine, you want to go with guilt now? How about mercy? It's got to be something about that in the Bible. Second chances, redemption.

[A]

You know, there are just some things that you kind of can't do better than. And Foggy talking to Matt about what is inside and how he makes his decisions and why is, like, core daredevil text. It's just the best I. You're right that it was kind of like the transition from Matt. I mean, I loved the way we cut between these Matt and Dex moments and these Matt and Foggy and the audio bleed. And the audio bleed. So when we cut from Matt telling Dex not to say Foggy's name, right into hearing Foggy say, even the best avocados have to do grunt work, I was just like, oh, my God, they got me. Like, they got me. You know, there are just some things that are gonna work if you're a fan of these characters and these relationships in the show or this franchise, and that's. That's one of them. But this, like, late night, and it's very, you know, like the. The. It's from a place of kindness here, and there's, like, a good spirited debate, but they're not tearing each other apart, as we have seen many times. Right. With them across the years. But this idea of, like, actually seeing something about the law, about their role in it, about society from a different point of view. Like the fact that Foggy and Matt don't always agree and then they workshop it and they talk it through, is one of the things that I love most about their relationship.

[B]

One of our favorite episodes of the show is Nelson v. Murdoch from the Netflix series, which is the Avocado at Law sort of like episode. But their constant conversations about, you know, what is right, what, you know, when do we let the law guide. When do we let sort of vigilante justice guide? What stops us? What stays our hand? The idea of mercy, mercy as a Catholic concept, inside of mercy being one of the most famous, sort of like Shakespearean. The quality of mercy is not strained. Legal arguments from the Merchant of Venice, you know, this idea of, like, you know, what is the justice system if not some kind. There is justice and there's vengeance inside of the concept of justice, but there's also mercy inside of that. A chance to rehabilitate yourself, a second chance. You know, we don't just, like. It's not an eye for an eye. That's not. That's not the world that. That we've chosen to shape inside of our. When it's working, a judicial system. You know what I mean? And so I think him. Him framing mercy as a Catholic concept, but it being such a key legal, judicial concept. And then, of course, for it to, like, come back again in the flashback and then inform what Matt does with Dex is. It's a great episode.

[A]

You invoked the Bard, who was always welcome here at the House of R. Maybe it'll come up in a later category. But your guy, Buck Cashman, just dropping Iago while flirting. Very special. Very powerful.

[B]

Really good. I think more important is Accent Corner, learning that. That Buck's accent is put on one

[A]

of the great developments.

[B]

You come up in the world, like, okay, Chim Chimcharoo, Buck Cashmere for both

[A]

the accent and the wig. You were obviously the first person I thought of. But, yeah, to the Mercy point. And, like, that's why I picked that clip. Like Foggy, Matt.

[B]

It hasn't always.

[A]

It's not always easy. It's a thing they do for each other, but it can often go wrong. Like, the fact that there were moments for them across the episodes and the run of the series were like, the fact that a certain part of Matt's identity was something that Foggy couldn't accept, right? Or felt like Matt had kept from him. His life is Daredevil as one example. This is a moment where Foggy is appealing to the different aspects of this person he knows so well and understands so deeply, reaching him not through somebody else's view of the world, but through his own. It's like a way to show us really, the depth of their understanding of each other and their friendship. And then, of course, to remind us of, like, what Matt and Karen have lost, you know, and especially as Matt is making that choice to go back into the basement of where the church, the church that he hid out in, you know, for so many of his own days. I still think of the clearing the. The blood with the Nettie pot in season three. One of weirdly left a real impression on me in the. In. In the Netflix series. But, yeah, this was just perfect. And like, you have more specific too foggy moments in this episode that I really love too. Like, I thought when he went to give Lionel the money, and Lionel, you know, who we meet as this, like, this tough, this heavy, basically is crying, saying, like, that thing you had with my brother, like, I never had a friend like that.

[B]

It's like Foggy's like, I know.

[A]

Yeah, you just. Foggy brings this out in people. Like, I. I'm so sad that he's gone, but I think that this is a really smart way to keep him alive in our experience of watching the show, like, through the memories, because the memories that we have with him and the history that he has with the characters, like, those things don't go away just because he's gone.

[B]

How often do you think they're going to use foggy flashbacks?

[A]

Maybe once a season.

[B]

Okay, that would be great. Not enough for me.

[A]

I mean, it's certainly not enough, but it would be better than them doing it once and never again.

[B]

Yeah, fair enough.

[A]

You know, that would be fucking tragic.

[B]

It would.

[A]

What did you think of seeing Wesley? Was it. Was it a thrill? We love Wesley. We're Wesley heads again.

[B]

I was like, a little. Wesley was great.

[A]

Just there he is in a car on the phone. It was just like placing a menacing order.

[B]

I was a little distracted by, like, all the various de Aging efforts that they did and didn't make. Like they didn't really try with him. So he just looks like. Because he hasn't been on the show since season one.

[A]

That's been so long.

[B]

And so, like, that man has. Is looks very different than he did in season one, which is fine. He looks so. Looks quite handsome, I think.

[A]

Looks great.

[B]

But I was just sort of like, okay, they. They pasted all the CGI on Vanessa's face, but they just, like, left his neck the way they did. I don't know. Just like double standards of de aging.

[A]

Wesley was on my mind elsewhere in this stretch of episodes when, you know, Karen is just, like, gonna shoot some people.

[B]

I was like, can I just say Buck Cashman.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

A name that we spent a lot of time talking about. It makes so much more sense that Buck Cashman is the name of, like, a rough and tumble guy who has adopted creation and the accent of Wesley. Because, you know, it explains a lot. It does. Buck Cashman. We had a real problem with the name and we were like, should his name be like, Sir Pound Sterling or something like that? You know? But now that we know that he's not to the man or born, then this is much more apt.

[A]

I think it all tracks. It really does.

[B]

All track on the book. Cash American, but okay.

[A]

On the Vanessa front, my least favorite use of a flashback was specifically this felt a little bit like in the spirit of Daredevil. Born again in the earlier days. Miserable emptiness reflected back at him. Like the way she was talking about her happen in the snowstorm. Like, we get it, actually. And it was perfectly done. We're good. But Foggy. It was great. Foggy was great.

[B]

Foggy was great.

[A]

Let's talk about another person who was very important to this show and to this podcast. She can fix him. Favorite bullseye moment.

[B]

Impossible to choose.

[A]

I have. This is a house of art smuggle.

[B]

I have the longest list I've ever created for anything.

[A]

Is that true? Is it longer than some of your spike lists? How could it be? Is it. Oh, my God.

[B]

Because it's like every second.

[A]

I know. It has been great.

[B]

Every single second of that. The intro to episode four.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Is just hit after hit after hit. You texted me a long time looking up. Why would you do push ups that way to understand what muscle groups. Exactly. That he was trying to do.

[A]

What do you think of the way he was doing this with Sublime?

[B]

I mean it.

[A]

Sublime takes the mind in some interesting places.

[B]

Absolutely. You Texterity Dex is for Dexterity.

[A]

It sure is that the opening to episode four, And I quote.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Rewrote your DNA.

[B]

I think it did.

[A]

Since you can't possibly pick just one.

[B]

I have a clip. Excellent.

[A]

I'll have one banana milkshake.

[B]

You won't Whip.

[A]

Doesn't everybody.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Doesn't everybody.

[B]

That is something that the actor Wilson Bethel can do in his sleep. I've talked about this before. My love for the show Heart of Dixie, where he played a character, Wade Kinsella, and that was essentially what he did. Leaning and smirking and grinning and winking and like all this other shit.

[A]

Were banana milkshakes involved?

[B]

No, but.

[A]

But they could have been.

[B]

They could have been. Whip, I'm sure, was involved at some point for several seasons. He is one of the most effortlessly charming people. So to have him woo a neighbor, woo a cat, I mean, later, you know, some tough stuff. Take her gossage.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh, you know that to have him flip an egg without looking to have him. To give him a Billy Joel needle drop, to have him. I'm sorry, I'm pro. Wipe out the entire fucking task force. I'm. I'm into it. Um, the toothpick in the straw moment.

[A]

That was amazing.

[B]

Having a dog in the diner is not sanitary moment. Every single thing, every throw that he makes without looking, and it all hits. He flicks a coin. It goes into that unhoused man's, like, little outstretched cup.

[A]

He's bullseye.

[B]

I mean, and then the art, the artistry of the oil in the pan and the ketchup on the. On the door. Yeah. I mean, it's all so good. And then he does what fucking Matt Murdock cannot, which is at least take out one of the king and. Or queen pens. You know what I mean? And it's just sort of like, thank you. He's getting the job done. And then. So he does all of that in episode four and then episode five.

[A]

Amazing stuff.

[B]

Guess what? I have more Dex clips for later. But, like, there's this profound, emotionally damaged. Yeah. Aspect that he brings forth, and he is capable of all these things. So, like, have I always enjoyed Wilson Bethel in this role? Yes. But it's like I rewatched. When I was unpacking my house last week, I rewatched the movie Lincoln, which I hadn't seen since it came out. Murderer's Row of character actors. In that movie, of course, every single character actor of all time is in there, but Walton Goggins is in there, and he plays this very wimpy, sort of fearful role. And Walton Goggins has been miscast so many times in his life, but when you have Walton Goggins do Boyd Crowder, some flavor of that. On White Lotus, he did some flavor of that.

[A]

I am always there for that.

[B]

Extremely excited. And so when you. When you cast an actor and you let them actually do the thing that they could do better than almost anyone else, I get so excited. So, like, Dex in his sort of, like, restrained, like, repressed, medicated. All these other things that he was doing in season three, I thought he was, like, quite good. But his season one stuff was, you know, here, there, everywhere. But in this. In this stretch, he goes. I had to get my mind back right? And so now he's just sort of like, if you're like, hey, this isn't a Dex, I recognize I would agree with you. If you're like, hey, I feel like they've dramatically rewritten this character. I'd Be like, I agree with you. But they've rewritten him in a way that allows this actor to do something he is unparalleledly good at. And I am for it. So, Dex, I always loved you. But now Wilson Bethel getting to fire on all cylinders. Like every single piece of silverware in the diner flung, not a single lobster left behind. I am like, really for it.

[A]

So my only note is when he scared the dog. That was tough. Especially after seeing him act so tenderly toward the cat, you know. Yeah, this has been a wonderful stretch. It really has a great performance and I think a really interesting evolution for Dex4 bullseye. For him in a vacuum, but with what is unlocking with his relationship with Matt. And for Matt, you know, there's like, this is really not ever a total risk with Daredevil because Charlie Cox is so good and, you know, Matt is such a endlessly fascinating character, but like, Bullseye is so good. Foggy is back. We're getting something out of Kingpin we like. Jessica Jones is coming soon. Buck and Daniel, where it's like, you don't want Matt Murdock to recede in his own show. Right. And so watching him and Dex in the tunnels in the church, what they're saying to each other in a way that is like such a centering of the theme and the tension, but feels, I think, very authentic and believable for those characters.

[B]

And I think those flashback moments were really key to let Charlie Cox do what he can do so well, which is play different notes on the piano. This sort of like growling, rage filled, you know, Daredevil. Just like a lot of growling and

[A]

snarling and very heavy breathing after.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

The acrobatics is like time comes for us all.

[B]

It's like giving Colby to you. Giving a little Ozzy. Oh, my back. My back moment.

[A]

Just let me get. Just let me get the key.

[B]

Just let me get the key. But like, you know, finding his. His humanity, his humor, his lightness inside of this snarling darkness is important for the show.

[A]

Yes. And I mean, so if I had to pick, I'd say my favorite Dex moment was when he gave the egg to the cat and pet the cat's head. Cause it was lovely though. If you are going to give an egg to a cat, I don't think it should be prepared in as much oil as Dex had prepared that in. That's just. We'll file that away.

[B]

I also thought that was a lot of oil.

[A]

That's not good for the cat. Egg is egg. There's One of my tics that you like to point out, I said, I hear the word egg or say the word egg, and then I just have to go into my stream and then. But I think in. So I love. I thought the beginning of episodes. I thought the beginning of episode four was, like, just a delight, an absolute delight. But Matt and Dex together, Bullseye and Daredevil together in episode five was the thematic richness that Daredevil at its height can give us. And the way that there is that. Because we'd had that conversation, another scene that we'll talk about in other categories, I suspect about the one good deed thing.

[B]

Right?

[A]

And Dexter Lee, like, declaring the thing that he is seeking, like, quite nakedly. Right. Why he needs to do it and what scales he thinks it will tip. And scales of justice across all the different settings of a Daredevil story. Always applicable, right? But, like, Matt is screaming at him, you know, don't say his name. Like, you don't get to say his name. But then when. When Dex says, first you try to kill me, then you try to save me, and I'm the one who needs help, you know, and sort of points out the thing that we love about Matt, which is, like, the constant tension and conflict and dissonance inside. Conflict in the human heart. Don't know if it has come up on this podcast before, but it is the only thing worth writing about Matt saying, I tried to save you because I tried to kill you. Well, I lost sight of that on Josie's roof. Maybe tonight's penance is mutual. Like, Matt is very aware of the thing that he is navigating in real time here. Right.

[B]

And I think it's so smart to make the impossible survival of that fall a feature, not a bug. You know what I mean? To make that sort of a contextual. I should not have survived that. So that has dramatically altered who I am as a person. Ye this second chance I have to right a wrong or whatever. Whereas we as TV viewers are like, that was so baffling. He definitely killed him. And then that character was fine. Like, that was so weird. But I think that, like, what we're doing a bit in a way that I. I don't resent at all, is kind of running back some of the Punisher.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Daredevil dynamics of, like, no half measures, et cetera, et cetera. You know, like, Dex might as well have said, no half measures. Yeah.

[A]

I'm gonna put.

[B]

I'm going to put some glass in Vanessa's head. I'm going to do it. Her dress will become the painting. Do you get it? Do you see the blood on the white? And it's like kingpin's blood on the painting. It's the same.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

This is a great poetry.

[A]

It rhymes. I think that some of what transpires between Matt and Dex in the church could come up in the next category. Should we transition to it? It is the best. Yes. We're back at Church Beat. What do you got?

[B]

I have a clip that I wanted to be longer, but legally it is this length. But the worst part is when you

[A]

think you got it beat, you think,

[B]

ah, I outran it. And you turn a corner, bam,

[A]

there it is staring you right in the face.

[B]

Only it's worse this time, and you know it's always going to be there. What I love about that clip, and thank you so much to Carlos for his work on the clips. But what I love about that, I was like, oh, I want to make sure we get Matt looking up while he's talking. Like, Dex is, like, basically horizontal as he's, like, bleeding out, giving his gurgling blood, dropping bars, But Matt is like, mat eventually turn his head and look at him. But for a lot of that scene, he's just looking up. Yeah. They're sitting in the pews, and he's just sort of, like, looking up at, you know, the grand design is the name of this episode. And we'll. We'll talk about multiple characters.

[A]

Say it.

[B]

Yeah. Multiple characters literally say, hey, that's the name of the episode. But, like, we'll talk about some other things. But, like, for Matt, when he's thinking about a grand design, he's thinking about, you know, capital G, God. And that is. That is an important part of his character and his person. And so for him to be sitting there and, like, looking, and Dex is giving him. You know, Matt is always fighting the devil within him, but, like, Dex is giving him kind of a sort of like, Lucifer in Paradise Lost kind of argument about sort of the nature of who we are, and it's inescapable. And this is who we are. And I just thought this was so potent and powerful, and for Dex to just be like, I did it. I did my deed, and let me die. Let me die. But also, you and I, we're not so different. This is what we do. This is. This is who we are, and this is how we are, and we will always find our way back here. Yeah, I just thought it was really powerful.

[A]

I agree. I wrote down two lines for this category. One, Was that one. And one was the one I picked for my clip. I thought that was electric. And, you know, we were just talking about the season one moment where Matt pushes Dex off the roof. And obviously they talk about it in this episode. And I think that the. What the choice to do that thing. Have Matt make a decision that is intended to kill him. Something that despite, you know, as we've chronicled over many pods, Matt routinely, like, dropping characters over many floors of a staircase with a chain link. He doesn't kill it around their neck. Doesn't kill. He has a code.

[B]

He doesn't kill.

[A]

And that. That was a violation of something he holds dear. The thing that now in subsequent episodes and in this stretch in particular, that has unlocked for Matt. But there's a version of it where, like, had Dex died, it is a level of unparalleled, unmatched despair for Matt because he is. It is a violation that he can't return from. Right. A different type of. Of path to penance that he'll have to seek in perpetuity, but like an

[B]

eye for an eye kind of justice that, you know.

[A]

But Dex being alive is actually like a bigger reminder of what Matt did because it's not just the tug of guilt internally. It is. Is a person living room in front of him with a giant gaping scar on his cheek, forcing Matt to continue to interrogate.

[B]

Giving me, like, a really sexy, like, sculpting sort of scar, but, like, highlights the cheekbones, I think.

[A]

Do you think Dex is into a Looks maxing Looks maxing. It might be. It's worrying to consider.

[B]

Fucking dare you.

[A]

Okay, I retract the statement.

[B]

I'm sorry.

[A]

He's a good and pure boy and you can fix him.

[B]

No, he's not a good and pure boy, but looks Max.

[A]

Um, my pick for Back to church is a Matt specific one that I felt was lovely in general, but even further heightened. What we got in that moment between Matt and Dex because it rooted Matt back in this. In this. This place of his heart, his soul, his mind, his spirituality, all of it. Carlos, can we. Can we see this one from episode

[B]

four and abhor nothing so much as the darkness of evil and sin.

[A]

Ahmed.

[B]

Haven't heard that one in a long time. I. I knew a boy.

[A]

I knew a boy, like, killed me that hit me so hard. And we flashed to young Matt and, you know, we get a couple moments like that in these episodes.

[B]

The fact that. Did you really just pick that clip so we could celebrate? Hot priests, hot new priest is great.

[A]

I'm A big fan.

[B]

Big fan. What is the curl drop the curl routine?

[A]

Oh, my God. Wonderful stuff. Will you say hot priest? Like, will a fox be involved at any point in this season of television? Makes you think. Makes you think you'll get over it. We get. You know, we flash to, like, it'll pass when we find out where Kingpin's boxing match is gonna be. And Matt's like, that was my father's dream. We get a couple young Matt moments in these episodes, and it's like, Alan

[B]

Jack poster on the wall.

[A]

Ye. So, again, I like that stuff. Being in a daredevil show, it feels appropriate, and it feels like it belongs. And so I think, in general, like you said earlier, the kind of, like, confidence to say we're gonna return to some things that feel important, actually, that we left behind with the spirituality, with Matt's religion in particular and his relationship to Catholicism. I think it's the area of born again that is, like, in some ways, the most natural to reincorporate because it feels authentic. That part of the journey with. For Matt, with his, like, relationship to God and Catholicism is ebbs and flows, right? Like, that's not a linear path. And so the fact that he has stretches where he moves away from that doesn't mean that they can just, like, use the core of the character to explain why this was basically absent entirely from a full season of the show. But when Matt goes back, then he can say in a way that feels true, I have to tap back into this. I have to rediscover this.

[B]

Do you think with Dex, there's also. This is related to Matt, even though I just started with the name Dex. Do you think with Dex, there's also. There's this, like, living reminder of this thing that he. This. This co. Personal code that he broke in intending to kill him. But do you think it's also inside of this concept of the grand design? Do you think it's also like. Like, God saved him and in that way also saved me from having committed this murder? If I don't count all the other murders that I've definitely committed, all of

[A]

them, some legions and, like, also didn't die, but are forever. Forever imperiled by what mattered to them.

[B]

But this one I definitely meant to do, and he didn't. And miraculously, he didn't die. And did God do that for me to save me from myself?

[A]

I mean, the thing that he says when he. So this is the prayer to St. Lucia right before the. The portion of it that we just heard in the clip. By the light of the faith that God bestowed upon you, increase and preserve this light in my soul so that I may avoid evil. So whether or not he is thinking of it exactly that way or he is saying, I know that I have this in me, right? But I also know that I have that capacity in me and, like, help me get back there. And that going into this building and sitting in those pews and seek counsel or maybe outside on the bench, like, the person he did that with before isn't here anymore. But the place that unlocks that introspection

[B]

is, someone killed him. But let's not worry. Let's not dwell on who. Let's not spend too long thinking about who killed him.

[A]

Could have been anyone. Could have been anyone.

[B]

Did you see the tweet that it was someone. Some. I forget if you sent it to me, so maybe you did, but it was. It was like a. Someone wrote, I can fix him over Dex. And then someone, quote, tweeted him and was like. Like, no, I can fuck him. I can't fix him. I'm a sicko, not a therapist.

[A]

No, I have not seen that. Was it from one of your burners?

[B]

I'm not that brilliant. I thought that was. I thought that was.

[A]

How dare you? Religion. Core part of the Matt Murdock experience. The Court of Law. Also a core part of the Matt Murdock experience. Matt is not practicing law this season, but. But it is still, at some points, a legal drama. So our next category is best use of a courtroom setting. Anything in these stretch of episodes that actually worked for you in this respect?

[B]

I. I would say it's a dream of a future.

[A]

Yes. Tell me.

[B]

And it's because the actress playing Chief Justice Waters is Deidre Lovejoy, who played Rhonda on the Wire. And so I was like, I don't think you cast that actress for one scene, one episode. So it makes me hopeful that we are gonna come back to the courtroom. And are we coming back to the courtroom this season? Because, you know, Kingpin's like, keep them alive. You know, if you find Daredevil and Bullseye, keep them alive. Now, my initial instinct was, keep them alive so that I can personal, you know, nutcracker their heads.

[A]

I think that was what it was.

[B]

Put them in a cage, eat dinner in front of them, whatever the case may be, you know, but. Or is it like, is there some version of this where it's like, I can prosecute, make a. Make a public embarrassment of them or something like that? So, like, is Dex going Back to court. Is, is Matt going back to court as, like, as, as the, you know, person on trial? So mostly it's just sort of like my hope for the future use of courtroom because, I mean, having the swordsman in this season was, was great explaining why Karen and Matt now have unlimited funds also. Great. Yeah. Like, how well done.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Him and a tuxedo in the courtroom. Very, very good. You know, all, all good stuff, but that, but like, they didn't put him on the, you know, like, he didn't like, get to, to do his thing in the courtroom. And then so I just sort of like, I'm like, I hope I'm hopeful for more.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Rather than what we've seen so far.

[A]

I did like, when Kirsten said don't be a dick Hochberg while approaching the bench. That was pretty funny. Yeah, I agree. I think I, I, I did want to say in this category that I liked, even though it was very brief, I was confused by the pace with which we moved through the swordsman trial, given how, like, fully it had been propped up as, you know, these vigilante trials. And this thing that was going to be like a kind of central beat of, and, and, you know, just obviously we get the, the rescue and, and the, the springing of the. Can I just say yes, please?

[B]

We have, so we have quick use

[A]

of the, the key card to open all the, the cells.

[B]

It looked so dorky. Yeah, we have a, a sickest fight category coming up. Yeah, Matt sort of like, like hunching over as he opened each cage. Looked so stupid. And I was like, this is, this is like you have in, in Charlie Cox and all of his stunt doubles, one of the, like, most satisfying to watch physical performers. And you have him, like, hunch over and open. Like it looked, I was like, throw something to, like, open all the cages. Like, what are we doing?

[A]

I also use the Billy club.

[B]

What are we doing?

[A]

You had to kind of like, be paying pretty close attention because he doesn't like, flash the key card before that. And then there's a little, like, chime as. But there if you're sort of like, I don't know, watching TV the way a lot of people watch TV in the modern era. You would be forgiven for thinking that the, like, there just were no locks or something and he's just opening them. It was very odd sequence I did in the stretch that we did get in the courtroom. I marked with interest as well the quick little dynamic among the three justices and the clear discomfort in the middle there. And hopefully we will return to that in a way that is interesting. I Seeing Kirsten, who obviously is going through this, like, okay, where's mat? What's going on with all of this?

[B]

The US Marshals will keep you safe.

[A]

Well, that was obviously just inane. Karen culpable. I'll note if you would like me

[B]

to care for these characters. I need them to be less. Less idiotic sometimes.

[A]

That was wild. It's like this. As soon as they said that, it's like, all right, well, rip, this guy's about to be dead. And guess what? That's what happened. Yeah, I liked, you know, on the street with Heather before the actual scene in the. The very small courtroom, you know, the. Now, if you don't mind, I have to go defend a dangerous man against an entire system. Hellbent on putting him away. Just actually letting us see Kirsten operate in the capacity that, like, helps us now, in hindsight, fill in some of those blanks of, like, she and Matt ended up opening a practice together and, like, doing this work together. And, you know, something that was not quite working and hitting the right frequency in season one was Kirsten and Cherry as Karen and Foggy replacements in Matt's life. Without allowing us to really celebrate and understand the. The depth of the connection between those characters and seeing how Kirsten thinks about the law and thinks about the often impossible work of trying to do this right and righteous thing when every aspect of the system and society around you is reinforcing that it is literally impossible. Right. You found out this trial that's been the center of the media narrative in the city for weeks on end was coming up in two days, and Hochberg is, like, winking, smug. Oh, well, I sent it to your email address, you know, and like, to see what she's up against. And to just think of all those moments that Matt and Foggy and Karen were in that place. It helped me feel the connection that she has with those characters in a good way.

[B]

Seeing her at the bar, you know, like, just making her more of a human and less of a, like, mat we need to run our law office. This, like, drag on him. And more of just someone more deeply involved in the story. I think she's working much better this season.

[A]

Really glad you mentioned that scene at the bar, though. Karen with, like, the all time cock block. What the fuck? What? I mean, coming in to drop the napkin message, knocking her over. She had just gotten a drink from the hot dude.

[B]

A really hot dude, by the way. Let her and also go, let off

[A]

some steam after a tough day at the office. Karen.

[B]

Karen. Worst wig yet. Listen, it's hard. It's hard to pick. They're all very

[A]

bad wigs in this season of television.

[B]

Do you think with the now unlimited funds, she can afford better wigs for her various shenanigans?

[A]

That's a great question.

[B]

Okay, upgrade the wigs.

[A]

Maybe that's going to be Swordsman's true contribution is. Yeah. Allowing Karen to get better wigs. That would be great. Yeah, that would be great. Will you pick a wig in this next category? We'll find out. It's the saddest moment I have.

[B]

Actually. I'm gonna. I'm gonna zag. Okay. Because I think I was gonna pick, like, something Kingpin related or whatever.

[A]

Don't worry, I'll be doing that.

[B]

Interestingly, you know, I won't say what it is, but I. You know, we didn't watch the screeners, but several websites in their recaps of. Of this episode mention a scene at the end of the episode that is not in the version that. That we watch on Disney. I have not seen this scene because I didn't watch the screeners, but I think these people wrote their recaps based off of screeners. So I don't know if they've, like, moved that scene to the beginning of the next episode, but, like, Variety has. You know what I mean? It's not just like some rando blog. It's like Variety has a description of a scene that was, like, either cut or moved. And I was just like, that's very strange.

[A]

Intriguing.

[B]

Anyway, it's Kingpin related. Saddest moment. Okay, I'm actually gonna give it to your fave, Daniel Blake, when, like, Bibi gives him the hug and he sort of like, collapses into it a little bit. He. He's down so bad at the hospital. He knows that she's leaking. He's. He does not miss a trick. Like, when they're in line for the fight and stuff like that. Like, he knows. Yeah, he's tried to tell her, like, stop doing this. It's going to hurt me. All this sort of stuff like that. But he's so gone for her, just loves her that he can't, you know, help himself. And so when she's like, yeah, I'm sorry, and she hugs him, then there's this weird adr, like, she's in critical condition moment. But anyway, like, the hug him just sort of like, leaning into the hug was very sad because she's being. She cares about him.

[A]

She Does.

[B]

But she's being manipulative. Yeah. And it's working on. And he knows she's manipulating him.

[A]

And it still feels good to be in her arms.

[B]

How is that?

[A]

I am. I can't believe how invested I am in our relationship. It's, like, wild. I. I loved that moment as well. I. You're, I think, channeling me by picking that and saying that that was so touching and sad. And I'll channel you here by saying when that happened, my. The voice in my head, it was your voice saying, daniel Blake too dumb to live. I didn't want. I'm sorry. Kind of like, Daniel.

[B]

You're not wrong. You're not wrong.

[A]

I love him. I love him.

[B]

But do you think, okay, so, like, do you. Do you think that's what's gonna happen to Daniel, or does he kill her before the end of the season?

[A]

I think that will be a choice he has asked to make.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That feels like where we're heading. Yeah. With everything that's happened with Daniel and

[B]

Bob, does he kill her? Does he let her go and then he's the one who dies.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Thanks to our guy, Buck Cashman stepping out of the shadows. Daniel Blake, too dumb to live, but also, like, too fun to get off the show. So keep him around.

[A]

I don't know if I'll continue watching if Daniel Blake is killed. I somehow powered through when we went. He took Foggy away from us.

[B]

Kind of how I feel about Dex.

[A]

Yeah. Well, I was. I mean, I was a little bit concerned in this episode because you could feel that they were building toward an actual. Like, something of consequence was really going to happen. It's like, will it be Vanessa or. Well, Dex, I was pretty relieved, as a person who loves you that it wasn't Dex.

[B]

Thanks for caring about me.

[A]

I love Dex, too, so I'm thrilled that he's still here. The thing that makes me feel Daniel

[B]

is

[A]

gonna be around for the long term is, like, multiple mentions across these episodes of the air. And I feel like they are mini Kingpin. Yeah. Like, potentially. I mean, there's a lot of theorizing on the Internet of, like, is he gonna be revealed to be like. Like, actual son? Is that a thing that's coming. See it. But certainly the adopt the kind of, like, adopted, you know, when. When Kingpin is, like, propped on the desk and, you know, the lecture in episode two, three, and the, like, test of, you know, is there. Okay, this leak is something's going on. It's, like, your responsibility. And obviously, Daniel will get A version of that. Many versions of that from Buck. But the like, you know, is there anyone in this building you would do anything to protect? And Daniel's like, yeah, you. And Kingpin's like, good answer. And then you had, you know, the conversation with Wilson and Vanessa. Vanessa. When they're talking about, like, legacy and global reach.

[B]

And it's like, out of one side of your mouth, like, you're a ventriloquist.

[A]

Yeah. Could you do a. Could you operate a ventriloquist dummy? I don't know why I did like, a tickling the ball. But, like, you put your hand up, like, the ass. Right. Of the dummy.

[B]

Yeah, you do.

[A]

Isn't that how it works?

[B]

Not the ass, but, like, the back. Like, up the back of the coat is sort of the thing that makes

[A]

a little bit more sense than just right up the chute. Thanks for clarifying. But in episode, speaking of, like, a

[B]

hand puppet, you are essentially, like, right up the, you know, the causeway there. But I think for ventriloquist dummy, it's more of like a. A thoracic spine sort of situation. Yeah.

[A]

Great. Now I know the more you know that Kingpin Vanessa conversation, the like. But without an heir, we've always been enough for each other. It felt like quite conspicuously positioned in that conversation in episode two. And then in episode three, when Buck and Heather are at the gala and have that conversation talking about Daniel as the jester. And that at first glance. But is there more than meets the eye? An heir unapparent and feels like they're leading us towards. That doesn't mean that he couldn't.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It could be like, hey, you are. I basically think of you like a son. If that's what you want.

[B]

Kill this girl.

[A]

Get rid of the person that you love. And I think that's a particularly likely given that where we now find Kingpin is. I'm without the person I loved. I'm without the one person who anchored me to my humanity. Right.

[B]

Put her in a white dress, just blood everywhere. Shove a glass shard in her temple. Did you think it might. I didn't think Buck was bringing Daniel out there to kill him.

[A]

Incredible sequence.

[B]

But I was wondering if it was Bibi in the trunk. That was something that occurred to me that she was already dead. And it was like.

[A]

I didn't. I didn't think that. Just because I feel it. I feel so sure they're gonna. That Buck and or Kingpin, like, are going to make Daniel do it. And then Daniel will have to make his choice.

[B]

Or that she was, like, alive and tied up in the trunk and it's like, here you go, now you have to do it. But that's it. Seems like later in the season, it

[A]

was the guy who should never have been with the US Marshals. Mr. First Mate.

[B]

Mr. First Master First Mate himself.

[A]

My saddest moment is Vanessa dying and being killed.

[B]

Is it Vanessa living so much of her life without pineapple juice?

[A]

Who doesn't love a little lip tingle? Honestly, I think that.

[B]

Do you think she would have lived if the medical professional had been allowed to take her vitals like they wanted to?

[A]

I think it's possible. I mean, maybe not.

[B]

There was probably just like, get out of here. Get her pineapple juice. Put that stethoscope away.

[A]

A lot of brain bleed, it seemed. But maybe I do think also the specialist, the renowned specialist who came in and was like, I've checked out the chart. And I'm like, what about actually looking at our brain? That seems important. I don't know. It's pit season, so we're always thinking

[B]

about it's the end of pit season.

[A]

I know it's sad tonight. Could Mel or Huckleberry or Santos or McKay or Robbie or Ellis or anyone have saved Vanessa? What do we think?

[B]

Dr. John Shen with the Dunkin Donuts? Yeah.

[A]

Hell, yeah.

[B]

Dr. John Shen would have been like, I'll get you your pineapple juice because I too, enjoy a sweet treat. And also I won't take your vitals.

[A]

I love an icy beverage through a straw. But, yeah, you know, Vanessa's death. But really, like, I don't know, just the emotion between them in those sequences. It did get me the little bit

[B]

like d', Onofrio, the way that his face just, like, crumples.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

At the end when he's like, basically direct to camera, like, oh, my God.

[A]

I think the moment that where I was like, I am feeling this and am sad and affected by this was actually when she woke up. And that brief hope and like.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The way that through those tears, he asked her if she was thirsty or hungry and if there was anything he could get for her. Like, it's just. It was the most normal. I mean, obviously a horrifying circumstance, but

[B]

you mean how I, like, greet you every time we come into the studio? And you're like, I've had a stressful day. And I'm like, can I get you

[A]

exactly like that water? And then I say, how about an ice cold pineapple juice? And you say, there isn't any here. But that is One of the flavor offerings in the cooler. Would you like some extra? Like, I wonder if there's no free apple out there.

[B]

Actually, no free ads for Bevy, but

[A]

I still haven't tried any of the flavors.

[B]

I bet pineapple is there seasonally. We have a weird water machine here that I love, that I'm obsessed with.

[A]

I've just been hitting pure every time.

[B]

Gotta experiment. Basic. It's got flavors on it, baby.

[A]

I'm trying. I'm going to try a flavor. Okay. We were just talking a little bit about Buck and Daniel. We have a whole category devoted to them. It is the Buck Cashman and Daniel Blake celebration Corner.

[B]

You have a clip. I think you should play it.

[A]

I do have a clip. And I have to be honest, it was hard to select from all of the. Just the treasure trove of moments between the two of them. Carlos,

[B]

You do realize we have the governor's dinner in an hour, don't you? Yeah. First rule, don't eat those things. What if it's gross? I mean, just that would have inspired me to text you about one of our colleagues. But also. But also, I knew it had to be that scene because based on the number of texts I have received from you, that I've included the phrase street me.

[A]

I've texted you about this sequence a

[B]

lot so many times. The restraint you showed to not pick the part of the clip. Clip where Buck Cashman himself, like, takes a dainty nibble from the largest hot dog I've ever seen in my entire life.

[A]

It's incredible.

[B]

Fixins.

[A]

What, you think he'll give you, a total stranger, his secrets? Do you? I just got you to eat street meat. What do you think's in that thing? Just incredible stuff between the two of them. After that clip, Daniel just goes on and on. He's like, you're talking, you're munching. What if you laugh and spray food all over the deputy lieutenant? Not me. He just has this whole, like, philosophy

[B]

about how naturally at a party. I agree. I really agree.

[A]

Same, same.

[B]

Don't eat at the party, Eat before the party.

[A]

Depending on the party, you have some shrimp cocktail, your guts bubbling. It was like an incredible scene.

[B]

It was just Daniel like. Do you feel represented by Daniel Blake? Do you. Have you never felt more seen?

[A]

No, for a few reasons, his loyalty to Wilson Fisk being one of them. But the real reason is that he

[B]

is which team he supports.

[A]

Correct. Thank you for knowing me. Now I. He has a fucking. I mean, he's got New York sports paraphernalia.

[B]

I couldn't remember what it was.

[A]

Even though he had Yankees, he's got the jets pen.

[B]

And you literally texted me about it.

[A]

Yeah, it's interesting. Jets, not Giants. So that's the thing we know about him. He's got the Knicks. The Knicks pendant. But he has a Yankees glove.

[B]

So, like, what if he was an Orioles fan? What if he was a Ravens fan?

[A]

He would. He would be the dearest to me

[B]

of anyone who's ever graced my screen.

[A]

I just love him. I thought that then in. So that scene is a miracle. Just very, very amusing. And also, I do like that Buck is getting to, like, be a little weirder. This weird in a different way. Like, he's like. Like fun and light this season. To then use the hot dog as the lore in episode five, to get Daniel from the hospital into the car and then have the most. I mean, it was, like, intense. My heart was pounding watching it. Daniel is terrified that he's about to be killed.

[B]

His. His guts. Guess who's guts are bubbling.

[A]

Bubbling. Oh, they're bubbling. He's like, I could come in with you. I could get some beef jerky for a snack. And I was like, honestly, same.

[B]

It's a great snack when you're on the road. But when.

[A]

But maybe my favorite Buck moment was when he confirms in the car ride at the beginning, yes, you were right. You know, I was Regiment 22. When you were reading about my background, did you see anything about helmets? And Daniel says, like, the mayonnaise. And there's a. The way it's filmed. It's like kind of the side, you know, in between them in the car. And we just see Buck close his eyes, like. And he wanted to be.

[B]

And he wanted to be, like, cool. Blimey. But he's like, no, I have a posh accent now. I don't say that anymore.

[A]

Just incredible.

[B]

Hellman. Some real east coast shit there.

[A]

Wild. No, Daniel, not the mayonnaise. Afghanistan. Just an astonishing sequence. And then he gives him this actual speech right there. Pivotal moments in a man's life. And we're seeing what that moment was for him with Kingpin and Wesley, et cetera. But the way that Daniel's like, buck, am I in trouble? I think the way that they have positioned this, like, child inside of Kingpin's administration is, frankly, pretty weird. And so to see how young he is in that moment. And then it helps with, you know, he's like, not that you ever, like, stop lusting after people and making bad decisions as a result of it. But you're like, he threw a party and then BB got hired some cleaned and he was like, you're the best. Let me, like, make you Julia Child's Coco Vod recipe. He's the gift that keeps on giving. I just love him. So, Buck, am I in trouble? You're like, yeah. He's like, he's scared. He's a kid and he's scared. Ah. I really am a f. A fan of that relationship.

[B]

I know you are.

[A]

It's great stuff.

[B]

Stuff. Okay.

[A]

Speaking of Daniel, he's about to come up again in this next category, most compelling ship. And I would like to clarify, lamentably, it's something we have to clarify in season two of Dared Duffel Born Again. That most compelling ship is a relationship and sex category. And the Northern Star, the ship that has dominated so much.

[B]

The plotline that keeps on floating on. Yeah.

[A]

What are you going with here?

[B]

Is it Dex and Matt?

[A]

I. I texted you a picture of them really close to each other and said kiss.

[B]

Or more importantly, yeah, is it Dex and Matt and Karen? Because when he shows up to the to above Josie's bar, their super secret hideaway, their top secret hideout.

[A]

I can't with this.

[B]

And she's all sweaty from her. She's been punching the bag. She's been training. Right. And then she gives him a real like, oh, Matt, what did you dragon the guy who killed fo. Like, is Carrie gonna shoot Dex Sex?

[A]

It's possible. I mean, he's got a bullet in him already right now.

[B]

I think she should him instead. I think they should all have sex together. That's what I think. Why did you just look at the camera?

[A]

I just feel really proud right now to be here with you.

[B]

Genuinely. You made me like this.

[A]

Like, I mean, we're talking about the evolution inside of a relationship with Buck and Daniel. And now here it is with us. I support it. Karen was really like, like very clear with Matt Benjamin Point Dexter killed Foggy and he can fucking die. So I think it's. It's a risk for Matt to bring him there. And Karen has gotten more comfortable with a gun.

[B]

More comfortable than season one when she just like, killed Wesley.

[A]

Yeah. Now she's just like, you know, doing some acrobatics, like fall shooting people from underneath cars.

[B]

Can you show me your acrobatic moves again,

[A]

Karen? Boy, can she do it in a wig. You know, how many wigs can she do it in?

[B]

I will also say Buck and Heather. I'm weirdly rooting for them.

[A]

I'm Pretty into that, even though I'm also pretty invested in as few Heather scenes as possible.

[B]

But if they're all with Buck Cashmere,

[A]

like, how long are we gonna watch with the Muse mask and the nailing to the wall? Like, I could be watching Tanya Blake eating out.

[B]

You're traumatized.

[A]

We get it.

[B]

You have ptsd.

[A]

I could be watching Buck Cashman purchase a bone saw.

[B]

I could be watching Dex feed every cat in New York City.

[A]

Talk about a spin off idea. Holy hell. My God. Geez. I would watch.

[B]

Yeah, would watch.

[A]

I would watch. Will Karen offer to make him a banana milkshake? At any point, will he say to Karen, what are you famous for?

[B]

Will he say? He said, at the diner with whip.

[A]

Doesn't everybody? Okay, those are good picks. I like it. I. On the Karen front, I'm still shipping, of course. Karen and Frank, I will stay on this corner until there's just absolutely no reason to or hope left.

[B]

But Matt, you just ship them because you want Karen away from Matt Murdock.

[A]

It's all of the little column A, little column B. I would like that. But also I would like to see Karen and Frank give it a go.

[B]

I feel like Karen and Frank are like the hot dog. But getting Karen away from Matt is like all of the chili and the cheese and the onions and the relish and all the other, like, bullshit.

[A]

Guess what? Delicious combo. Delicious combo. In episode three, Matt shirtless. Number of articles and featurettes and videos on the Internet about Charlie Cox's workout routine. Check it out if you haven't. Matt Murdock, looking good, staying fit. He's in the background, shirtless.

[B]

They have so many dumb tattoos. They have to cover for Charlie Cox.

[A]

I'm always interested in the, you know, as a person who intends to be fully covered at some point and the ability to then cover them up. But the jealousy, that's still at play here, you know, Karen's like, where's Frank? All this stuff is going on, you know. Do you think that Kingpin got him? And Matt rightly, I think says. I mean, obviously, we know, we've watched the. The trailer for the impending special and we've seen the Punisher and the Spider man trailer, etc. But Matt's right, right? He's like, kingpin would be throwing a parade and touting this from the street if he had killed Frank Castle. But he's like. Karen's like, so what? He's just all this. He's just out there being him, same as always. I don't know. He's Always been there for me. For us. Before the correction of. For me to. For us in real time with your boyfriend, when you're talking about another dude who. Your heartbeat changed when you were last.

[B]

I was gonna say, like, what do you think her heart was doing when she said that?

[A]

I was actually a little bummed that we didn't get one of those. Like, we switched to the.

[B]

He's been listening to heartbeats all season,

[A]

man, so I'm rooting for them still. I am pretty, as we've already, you know, talked about and cover pretty into the BB Daniel thing, because I think.

[B]

So you're shipping Daniel and Bibi, not Bibi, at a bone saw.

[A]

Correct. I would like the bone saw and the shovel to stay far away from BB I. One of the things that I have enjoyed about this is, like, it started off where, obviously, they were both using each other, and they still are, and Daniel is just smitten and obsessed. Yearning tendrils everywhere. And Bibi's, like, very uninterested. And I think that there is a real affection that has developed in both directions, and so there's a complexity here that I'm really, truly intrigued to see where that goes. I hope they're all okay. Sickest fight.

[B]

I have a cliff.

[A]

It's great stuff.

[B]

Hot.

[A]

This is really good.

[B]

Dex listening to a Discman, probably only so that they could do that, you know, is a. Is a pretty phenomenal moment. Their fight there, though, so brief, is great because they're both really good at throwing things there, so they're just throwing things at each other. It's great. I mean, Dex's whole thing of the diner probably is the real answer, but I just, like, loved that CD moment so much. And then the, like. Then just, like, punching. Just, like, screaming and punching each other in the face really hard. I thought that was. If you want to talk about sick. I thought that was a sick.

[A]

Yeah, that's my pick, too. And it edged out the diner for me because it gives us that, like, that great pairing of. Of the choreography and the theatrics of the fight and how they're using their respective powers, which is a really fun thing when Daredevil and Bullseye face off with a conversation. You know, all of the richness that we're treated to in episode five stems from this, like, one good deed. What I did, what that woman had me do to your friend exchange. That's entwined with this conflict. So I really love it.

[B]

And then the neighbor's like, what are you doing to my Tony? And Then she's like, smithers. And she's like, like, ah.

[A]

Tony, what are you doing? No, really tough. Really tough. When he took her hostage. That was a rough one. Rough one for our guy, Dex. Very, very.

[B]

Cat's name, by the way, is Mr. Meowgi. Just.

[A]

Just Fluffy boy.

[B]

Just need you to know that his name is Mr. Meowgi. And that's great.

[A]

Sweet Fluffy baby. My anti. Sickest fight. You gave one. It's a. It was a great bat hunching over

[B]

and using the key card.

[A]

I'm gonna give you a bookend in the. That same stretch, that same sequence, which was, you know, because, like, we've got a new white tiger, right? So Angela shows up. She's got the. The duffel bag full of. There's a walkie in there. Karen's, like, turning it on. Okay. They're getting an update. This. Adam and I were cracking up when this happened. You know, there's the update. And then Karen's just like, hello. I don't know why it got me so much. It's like, guys, this is a really tense situation. We're on the clock. Hello. Hello. Dex hurling a cd. It was not. Okay, we're down to our final two categories.

[B]

What I will say, though, as much as I thought that freeing of all the people from the cages was clumsily done. Swordsman with the rebar and using it as a sword was pretty great.

[A]

That was good. That was better than, you know, I liked when we caused the steam to cloud the room cover. But then guns are firing everywhere and

[B]

it's like, everyone's fine.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Okay. Is that your most intriguing mystery?

[A]

Mystery?

[B]

How is the AVTF worse than a stormtrooper at hitting a target? Is that your question?

[A]

Exactly. I think there are a couple picks here. For the rest of the way.

[B]

I don't have a ton here. I'm gonna add a sort of, like, extra textual thing. Yeah. And say, have you been, like, dialed into this watcher business?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay, so, like, in episode four, when Dex and Matt go through the glass of the gym, there's a shot outside the glass of the gym where you see two lights on the wall. And the way that the glass is sort of shattered could conceivably, if you're trying very hard, look like the silhouette of the watcher.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And then Brad Winderbaum, who's like, head of Marvel tv confirmed or just decided to go with what the Internet was going with and was just sort of like, he's always watching sort of thing, was like, that Is the Watcher. I'm of two minds, but I really think this could just be Brad being like, you guys think it's the Watcher? Sure, it's the Watcher. Why not? It's really just two lights and some broken glass. But sure, whatever you need. But like, what if it is?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And what if the grand design has nothing to do with the Catholic God and has everything to do with the Watcher? Is this a. You know, know, is Vanessa's death. Vanessa. Is Vanessa's death something worth watching in every single universe? Probably. I mean, what is Wilson about to do now? Nothing good.

[A]

Let's just go. Let's go back to spider verse and answer that question. Right. So, yeah, it's. I, yeah, I'm interested in that. And I think also pairing something that grand and cosmic and sprawling in Marvel.

[B]

Our street level.

[A]

Yeah. One of our most street level tales is a compelling. Relatedly on the street level front. I remain intrigued by the mystery of when Jessica Jones will be entering the story. I thought that would happen by now. I have to be honest, I'm surprised.

[B]

Spoiled for me.

[A]

Oh, you know, when it's coming.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. I don't. I really hope it's.

[B]

I had that spoiled for me at the beginning of this season. Someone, someone I know had watched it all, was like, it's not till this. And I was just like, that is a little late.

[A]

Oh, boy. Yeah, I'm. I think it's overdue and I'm ready. That said, it does really feel like this episode, episode five was a transition and pivot point in the story. So maybe now. Maybe it's next week.

[B]

Maybe now.

[A]

That would be great. I guess we already talked about the like. Is, you know, is there a chance that Daniel is going to like actually be revealed to be Kingpin's son or something? Or is the idea of the heir more spiritual? Yes. I guess the other thing, just because it's frankly, I think notable that he has not come up at all today. Are they gonna like land anything with Mr. Charles? That's been a bit of a letdown.

[B]

It. Yeah. That's not how I would use Matthew Lillard personally.

[A]

Only two episodes. Obviously. We talked about one of them already. Episode four, the second appearance, which got off to a great start because he's just like there, there and then monologuing about Wombat being square with which was like fun fact.

[B]

Didn't know.

[A]

Wow, you really do learn something new about LEGO bricks.

[B]

In order to like.

[A]

You bring up my Lego. You have my attention. You know that it's a thing, you know, but like, you know, this kind of dick measuring power contest. Oh, you break out your guy with the gun. I'll break out my guys with the gun. You know, we're both peacocking. Oh, your guy with the gun got my guys with the guns. Where? Where's it going?

[B]

And then he's like, fucking, look. That's how he buttons that scene, right? Like, he just swears. Yeah. I don't know.

[A]

On behalf of the agency, is it actually. Is there enough time for that to

[B]

be answered in a satisfying way, or is it just a mystery that's here that you're like, what's going on there?

[A]

I think the most intriguing mystery is why they haven't done more with Mr. Charles, honestly. Speaking of intrigue, there was only one way to end today's podcast, and it is what I think not to go full Jeff Probst, Blood Moon. It'll be the biggest, will never be the same ever.

[B]

Until next week when we do a double elimination.

[A]

Way better twist.

[B]

Way better. Way better twist. My God, without the dumb name.

[A]

Might be the biggest, best wig watch TM with Joanna Robinson in the history of wigwatch.

[B]

Let me tell you, behind the scenes, I am not watching Daredevil. Like, it is not appointment viewing for me. I am not like, like, you know, queuing up the Disney and watching it immediately.

[A]

Unlike Survivor, which we are both watching that way.

[B]

Well, if I don't watch it immediately,

[A]

yes, I can't versus spoilers on Paramount.

[B]

Plus, I don't. Because I don't. Anyway, I have to watch it live or else I can't watch it till the next day. And if I can't watch it till the next day, then I'm going to get spoiled. So. Okay, but. So people are, like, adding me on

[A]

Twitter about the wigs.

[B]

Well, last week it was like, you're a guy, Dex.

[A]

You're a guy, Dex.

[B]

You're like, like, never have I received so many messages from people being like, surely Joanna is at home crying and orgasming, watching episode four of Daredevil. No, but, like, you know, that's what people thought. And I was like, wow, I gotta. I guess I gotta watch episode four of Daredevil. And then this week it was like, the wigs, the wigs, the wigs, the wigs. And then, like, you watched it before I did and you were texting me about the wigs. And then I thought I knew what they were because I saw Foggy. I saw. First I fucking saw Vanessa.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

Her, like, crunchy waves and then I saw Foggy and Matt. Matt's like the plastic sort of like Eddie Munson Dracula, like widow's peak that they gave him with his floppy 90s hair is atrocious.

[A]

Really. The matte wig was very like plastic Lego hair.

[B]

It was really tough. Foggy's was like, not too. The hairline was bad, but the texture was good. I thought they like matched like. Like I could kind of roll with that one. But what we're about to show you is I. I was live texting you and I was like, I've seen all the bad wigs and you're like, baby, you have not seen nothing yet. The fuck. You're like, get an ice pack ready. Get your fainting couch ready. You will be crying and orgasm in mere second.

[A]

Can I see?

[B]

Long time, pal. Looking good, West. Oh my God. I just like, I hope we didn't ever blow it, but. Oh my God, like, what has happened? And I was telling you, I sent you a photo. I was like, this is like, this is like Sebastian Stan Winter soldier. Specifically in Civil War when his arm got too big for his. They had to give him a new metal arm. Cuz Sebastian. Oops. Got too swole. He's wearing like five Henley and he's got the ball cap and the long bucky hair. Like that's kind of the look they're going for. But like, but oops. We went to Spirit Halloween store instead and this is the wig. We found it. Like, they put a hat on that wig and it didn't help. That's what. You know, you have such a bad wig because like in Nelson V. Murdoch.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

In order to do flashback foggy college hair.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

They put a beanie on that shit.

[A]

They did.

[B]

And they needed to, but it worked. The beanie plus the shaggy long hair. Like, sometimes a hat can really help sell.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

This is just highlighting what is wrong here with this particular wig is very bad business.

[A]

Absolutely befuddling.

[B]

Can I tell you, it's not the worst wig I've seen this week. I have another. I have another visual for you. Carlos, can you show us this next visual, please?

[A]

Oh my God. Yeah.

[B]

Yes, I did see the Disneyland Hansel.

[A]

I did see this.

[B]

Love and respect to this guy. It's not his fault. Fault. It's not his fault. But I wanted you, number one Harrison Ford expert, to weigh in on Timu Han Solo, who is walking around Galaxy's Edge right now.

[A]

Let me throw this out there.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Hashtag makesolo2happen. Haven't we solved it with that guy in that wig. I don't mind it.

[B]

Okay, so you're coming out in favor of that?

[A]

I think it's more that I know that if I confronted that in the wild in person, I would be like. Like, I would have basically emptied my bank account on building a custom droid and a custom lightsaber. I would have one of the worst but most like satisfying and well earned stomach aches of my life from the blue and green milk. And am I just recounting an actual experience that I had there a few

[B]

years ago with the other ringer verse team, the rest of the Ringiverse team?

[A]

I am. And it was a great night, and I can't wait to go back.

[B]

So you beat, like, almost. You'd be sweating.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Broke. Vomiting. The guts would be bubbling, crying and coming. Exactly. And then you would behold that vision and you would say, looks about right.

[A]

I'm in. I'm in.

[B]

All right. Galaxy's Edge. Han Solo, Harrison Ford.

[A]

Bring us back. Bring us back.

[B]

Mallory says you can send her a drink at the bar anytime. Exactly.

[A]

You're a sports fan. You know, you brought up the pitch clock on a recent episode of House of R. Everybody was talking about it. So how many times have you seen somebody telestrate a play? Like, are you familiar with, you know, your.

[B]

Say telestrate?

[A]

The telestrate. Using the telestrate, you break out the, you know, the. Oh, I'm gonna circle this with yellow. I'm gonna. I'm gonna scheme.

[B]

Are you playing? I'm speaking of when filmmakers are on that Vanity Fair thing and they break down their shots.

[A]

There you go.

[B]

I telestrate. Is that what it's called?

[A]

I think we should provide you with the tech to start doing this to

[B]

tell us straight wigwatch.

[A]

Like, where should the hairline be? Where did it go wrong? We need to kit you out so that you can help everybody understand where they have aired.

[B]

Yeah, I would love to. And I will. I will say there are some fine people doing great work on TikTok and Instagram Reels on. On the wig. Watch. Like, there are people. We're breaking it down to a science. But, like. Like, sometimes you can, like, literally see the lace. That's the problem with poor Steve Rogers. Often.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And sometimes the most of the times, the hairline is too dense, so it just looks like a straight to your Lego point. If you look at Matt Murdock.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

It's just a V of darkness. There's no, like, individual strands of anything. Something that you could do with a wig to make it look more realistic is you can pluck some of the hairs out of the front piece to sort of, like, give you individual hairs. But that's only if you have money, time, and it's not made of plastic. And I cannot guarantee you that Charlie Cox's flashback wig was not made out of plastic. It was.

[A]

It looked terrible.

[B]

Horrible, Terrible, horrible.

[A]

Well, at least we got the Footstuff line.

[B]

Marvel, I know that you're cutting a lot of corners these days. There have been layoffs. I want to respect that.

[A]

Invest in the wigs.

[B]

Invest in the wigs. If not Karen's, like, cloak and dagger wigs, then at the very least, your own goddamn flashback wigs. Or guess what? Buck Cashman didn't even need a flashback wig. That's what, like, makes me absolutely bananas. Because Foggy did and Matt did, because we know what their hair looked like. But Buck Cashman could have looked like anything in his chim chim Cheroo, like, street tough phase.

[A]

Should they have just done a buzz cut?

[B]

They should have just given him. If they're going to give him the Dick Van Dyke accent, just give him the flat cap. You know what I mean? Like, just do that. There was no cause for that atrocity on that handsome man's head. So do you think Rachel. They gave him, like.

[A]

Yes, they did.

[B]

Shaggy Rachel. Layers. That is insane work.

[A]

Tragic. I think we're going to get more black flashbacks.

[B]

Right?

[A]

They, I mean, like, lifted the mini blinds.

[B]

Yeah. Looked out.

[A]

He's, like, talking about how everything changed. Kingpin changed his life in this moment. It's like, well, let's see how this all concluded.

[B]

You think he's gonna kill that man? He's Buck Cashman, whatever his name was. Something. McCoy, Connor McCoy, little brother

[A]

Lionel, who then started going by Ray.

[B]

Hank McCoy.

[A]

Hank McCoy. Exactly.

[B]

Peter Clockey.

[A]

Oh, God, What a wig. Watch. What a wig. Watch. It was Daredevil. Born Again.

[B]

I can't believe. On the upside, I can't believe you're coming out in favor of that Galaxy's Edge. Han Solo. I cannot believe that you. No one respects the sexual allure of Harrison Ford more than you. And you were like, you know, fine.

[A]

No, you know my actual take on this. What does everybody think they're doing? Trying to have anybody in the world other than Harrison Ford. Bihan Solo. Like, this is not a fair position to put anybody. It's not fair.

[B]

So make like it wasn't fair.

[A]

It's not fair to.

[B]

That has been a farce this entire time.

[A]

No I think I listen. I'm. I watch shrinking.

[B]

Mockery and a sham.

[A]

I think Harrison Ford is up for it.

[B]

He did it already. And then he's like, kill me, please.

[A]

Yeah, now he's back. You know he's back.

[B]

Oh, like force, go ghost.

[A]

It could solo. We can do anything we want.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Any point in the timeline.

[B]

Okay, so when Steven Soderbergh's Ben solo movie.

[A]

Yeah, yes, exactly.

[B]

Which I want me to to have happen.

[A]

Me too.

[B]

Get shrinking era Harrison Ford.

[A]

Yes. Let's get Paul with his fun dip and his hats right off of the shrinking bench back into.

[B]

Were you stressed that he might leave at the end of the season of shrinking shrinking?

[A]

Yes. But also no, because I feel like it's so clear that what's happening with Harrison Ford on shrinking is like everybody who is involved with shrinking's favorite thing about making shrinking correct.

[B]

So

[A]

doesn't feel like there's a way to do that without him, however long the time jump is.

[B]

But Bill has said, like, yeah, the whole cast is coming back. Don't worry. We got Harrison Ford.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

That has been our check in on Survivor. I'm not hosting this episode, but our check in on Survivor and shrinking and also Daredevil.

[A]

We did it. We did it. Only what, three episodes left, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Maybe we'll check in again at the end.

[B]

Depends. Guess what, Disney. Give us more ducks and I will give you more podcasts. That's a promise from me to you.

[A]

I think that's completely fair. Thank yous. Thank you to Carlos Chiraboga, Scott Lee Jacob helping out again today here at the old Sycamore Studios. Arjuna Ramga Powell, as always. Jomia Denaron, as always. We will see you next week. Perhaps we will see you chucking out wigs at Galaxy's Edge. Until then, enjoy your banana milkshakes.

[B]

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