Joanna Robinson (1:55)

We'll just do it again in a couple months. We love a mailbag.

Mallory Rubin (1:57)

Oh, yeah, Brilliant.

Joanna Robinson (1:58)

Why not?

Mallory Rubin (1:59)

Well, we're saving them all. I just hid some rows in our spreadsheet. I didn't delete a single thing. So, yeah, yeah, they're still here waiting for us should we want to return to them. But you got. You guys hit a lot of similar topics. So we'll be getting, like, close to a lot of your questions here today. Before we get into those questions. Said questions, Mallory Rubin, I don't want to jinx what's coming up later in this week by saying what it is. Yeah, I'm feeling very superstitious about it for some reason, so I'm just gonna say we have an episode later this week that I'm very excited about that allegedly has a special guest on it that will allegedly prepare us in one way or another for two of our most anticipated movies this year. Do you think that all of that's accurate?

Joanna Robinson (2:43)

And that will also continue, Resume, revive, resuscitate a series,

Mallory Rubin (2:51)

Triangulate those clues. As you wish. That is allegedly.

Joanna Robinson (2:55)

Here's the problem. What we have done in order to avoid a Hall of Fame situation where we say specifically we're doing something and then we don't. We have definitely implied to the bad babies that we're doing the hall of Fame. That's what everybody's going to think. And that's not what.

Mallory Rubin (3:11)

Is that what that sounds like?

Joanna Robinson (3:12)

That's my worry. That's my worry. It's not the Poll of Fame. No, it's not. We're going to do the Poll of Fame when Dune Part 3 comes out.

Mallory Rubin (3:18)

Maybe Allegedly. Probably. It's not polite. No.

Joanna Robinson (3:24)

This next podcast, it will be set in space, though, you know, so that also is a clue that could make it sound like.

Mallory Rubin (3:30)

That's a great clip.

Joanna Robinson (3:30)

Hall of Fame.

Mallory Rubin (3:31)

Yep. There's an UN Timothee Chalamet is involved. He is.

Joanna Robinson (3:40)

But that's a.

Mallory Rubin (3:41)

That is a good.

Joanna Robinson (3:41)

That actually is a good clue that I think really will allow people to zero in. Yeah.

Mallory Rubin (3:45)

Okay, great. There we. We did it. We did it together. What else is on the horizon for us in front of that? We'll figure it out as we go. We've got some ideas, we've got some clues, but Project Hail Mary is, like, coming up around the corner. We got a lot of prep we want to do for that pod, so we got a lot of questions about that particular story. That's sort of like really crowding the halls of my mind right now is my anticipation for everyone to see Project Hail Mary. Mallory Rubin. How can folks keep track of what may or may not be coming on the feed later this week, let alone in the future weeks?

Joanna Robinson (4:19)

Here's what I would recommend. Whether or not you're able to decipher our clues, our programming clues is follow the pod, follow House of R on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. You can watch video episodes of House of R and the Spotify app. Incredible stuff. We're here. One of us is here in our beautiful new studio, but we're both here in spirit. We were here together last week. We will be here again together soon. You can watch our pot, so do that. You can also watch House of R on the Ringerverse YouTube channel, where you can also, of course, see full video episodes of the Midnight Boys while you're at it. Follow the Ringerverse on the social media platform of your choosing, now more than ever. I'm not here to tell you what that is, but wherever you want to be, we'll be there with you. And obviously, it's a mailbag, so you know this already, but the inbox, it remains open. Hobbits and dragonsmail.com keep the. Keep the emails coming. Let us know what you think of Project Hail Mary when you get to watch it. Are you checking out Daredevil Season 2? Mall Shadowlord is coming in April. The boys, you know, are you already just looking ahead to the Odyssey, perhaps? Keep those emails coming. Are we looking ahead to the Odyssey? We are.

Mallory Rubin (5:31)

Later this week, possibly, in a way. In a way. In its own way. Okay, so listen, y' all sent us a lot of great emails.

Joanna Robinson (5:41)

Y'. All. Look at you.

Mallory Rubin (5:43)

You all.

Joanna Robinson (5:43)

Wow.

Mallory Rubin (5:44)

You all. Everybody sent us a lot of great emails. Did I tell you that I was at a. I was at a play in LA last week and there were not. Anyway, there's have to be a lot of famous there.

Joanna Robinson (5:59)

Sure.

Mallory Rubin (5:59)

And Hurley himself from Lost, Jorge Garcia walked past me and my friend without even like. We didn't even make eye contact. We didn't even say anything. She's just like, oh, you're in heaven right now. I'm like, I am, man. Hurley's here.

Joanna Robinson (6:12)

So exciting.

Mallory Rubin (6:15)

I was just in his proximity. I didn't talk to him at all.

Joanna Robinson (6:18)

But what a proximity to just soak up his aura and his essence.

Mallory Rubin (6:21)

Oh, my God. No one, no one has better vibes than he. Than he, truly.

Joanna Robinson (6:26)

All right, let's.

Mallory Rubin (6:26)

Should we. Should we just start answering some of these questions?

Joanna Robinson (6:30)

Seasonal mailbag. We love a zippy. A Zippy bag. Tight little bag.

Mallory Rubin (6:36)

Phrasing. Tight little bag. All right, I want to start with the question that we got the most emails about. And I should say we got emails about this even before the mailbag prompt. We got emails about this related to the finale.

Joanna Robinson (6:47)

Yes.

Mallory Rubin (6:47)

I personally am so unenamored of this theory that I did not bring it up on the finale pod. But okay, the. The people have been champing at the bit for us to talk about it, so we should at least talk about it, which is many, many folks are asking if in the television series and I have the Seven Kingdoms and the novellas.

Joanna Robinson (7:08)

Yes.

Mallory Rubin (7:09)

If Dunk is unwilling to knight Raymond Foss away because he himself is not a knight, is it possible that Sir Arlen Patrie did not night Dunk because Sir Arlen himself.

Joanna Robinson (7:25)

Yes.

Mallory Rubin (7:25)

Was never a knight.

Joanna Robinson (7:27)

Yeah.

Mallory Rubin (7:27)

That a lot of people are Asking this question. You said that like folks in your. In like everyday life were texting you.

Joanna Robinson (7:35)

Some friends were texting. I'm in a group chat that's. That's been popping off the last few days about this. And I was almost gonna say like, hey, a couple of my friends hit me up about this. Should we. Should we consider for the mailbag. And then got into the spreadsheet and it just said several for the same

Mallory Rubin (7:48)

question Many, many people are asking. It's a very currently, very popular theory. Tell me your. Your thoughts about it.

Joanna Robinson (7:55)

So I am open to this. I don't feel strongly one way or another. The, the thing that would incline me to receive this warmly if it winds up being true that Arlen himself was never properly knighted, is basically what you already said. Thematically, that parallel is interesting to me that we have seen Dunk reluctant to. To Night Raymond tonight. Somebody else. If he does not believe that he would then basically be properly knighting somebody like that there's a. If not morally, if not in terms of his ability to live by honor and he is like this pure knight, right. That there would be like a taint in the, in the pipeline there the line. Yes, right. And so if Dunk is reluctant and maybe. Cause we talked about this in our Night of the Seven Kingdoms pods, like. And Dunk asks this. Dunk, voicing the question like, why did you never knight me? Gives it a little bit more oomph, I think as something that is at least like an interesting theory corner hold em loosely, as Joe always likes to say. But it's at least an interesting prompt, I think, for theorizing. Maybe that's why Arlen was reluctant to actually knight Dunk, like a similar hesitancy because he was not himself properly knighted. I definitely don't need that to be true. I had frankly, like not considered it as a possibility before all of this theorizing started popping up over the last few days and weeks, as you noted. But I do think thematically that parallel as like a shared tie between Arlen and Dunk would be interesting. And certainly on the thematic front, the idea that Arlen, if he had not been formerly properly knighted previously, that it didn't matter. Just as it doesn't matter for Dunk that he chose to live like a true knight. Right? A knight who remembered his vows. I think that that parallel is like, is interesting to me. I think you could swing it the other way and say that there's a risk maybe of diluting then some of the potency of where we are With Dunk.

Mallory Rubin (10:01)

That's the very word I was gonna use. To me, it dilutes Dunk's story to be like, it's just a copy paste of what happened with Ser, though. I really value this idea of like, Ser. Arlan's hedge knight philosophy passed down to Dunk is the true essence of knighthood. And you don't need an official ceremony to be a true knight. You just need to remember your vows as you said. And the hedge knight's way is the true way because you're not beholden to a various lord. You're beholden to your own moral code. All of that is really potent and interesting to me. I just. I think it just diminishes Dunk's experience to be like, this is just what happened before with Arlan. And it feels to me like a one of those like, like theories that feels very exciting to people because they feel like they've. They've caught something out, they figured something out and like, you know, who among us, you know, me, I love a. I love a I've figured something out theory. I just don't really like it personally. But everyone's allowed to have their theories and. And there's nothing wrong with it. And it's not one of those theories where I'm like, this is factually implausible. Like, it is. Is definitely plausible. It could be true.

Joanna Robinson (11:07)

Right.

Mallory Rubin (11:08)

I just don't happen to like it personally. But, you know, I'll be curious if this makes his way to George and if George has something to say about it or if I were. Has something to say about it, you know.

Joanna Robinson (11:18)

Yeah.

Mallory Rubin (11:19)

But I think I prefer the story if Sarlin was knighted, chose this more vagabond lifestyle for himself, and that Dunk was never knighted and this is his story. And we have some thoughts about. Which we can't get into in a non spoiler way. And there's no sense in yes. Ushering a spoiler into a mailbag or anything like that. But we have some thoughts about how that story might all play out for Dunk in the future.

Joanna Robinson (11:45)

Yes.

Mallory Rubin (11:46)

And I like that just being like a really unique.

Joanna Robinson (11:49)

I agree.

Mallory Rubin (11:50)

Sort of story that we're getting.

Joanna Robinson (11:51)

So I agree.

Mallory Rubin (11:52)

That's where I. That's how I feel about it.

Joanna Robinson (11:54)

Keep the Knight of the Seven Kingdoms emails coming. We're not interested in ceasing our discussion of this show. You know, we're a year away from getting season two. We'll talk about it every opportunity we get between now and then.

Mallory Rubin (12:05)

People are despondent that it's over. They're just, like, so bummed. And even though, like, you know, industry had an incredible season finale on Sunday, but I still felt the absence of that, like, Sunday night, you know, night of the Seven Kingdoms excitement.

Joanna Robinson (12:20)

So, yeah, we got some Thrones news today. We're, like, recording. And this is hot off the presses, so by the time this podcast is published, we could have more information. Probably not worth talking about for more than 30 seconds as a. As a result of that, but they've. There's a, you know, a movie officially in development, right? Thrones movie.

Mallory Rubin (12:36)

Bo Williman.

Joanna Robinson (12:37)

Bo. Our guy, Bo. Andor this is exciting. I mean, or is it? I don't know. Do we want Thrones movies? Do we just want Thrones to remain tv? They have not yet said what this

Mallory Rubin (12:46)

story will be, what it is.

Joanna Robinson (12:47)

That could be the biggest sort of time.

Mallory Rubin (12:49)

But the big theory going around is that it's an Aegaon's Conquest movie, because they've talked about that as an idea before. You know, Bo Williman is worth remembering before he worked on andor, like, more famously was creator of House of Cards or the American version of House of Cards, also a playwright and, you know, et cetera, et cetera for. For Beau Aegon's Conquest is not necessarily what I want from a Bo Williman movie. I want more. More palace intrigue. Like, that's what he's very good at. So, yeah, that's not who I would pick for an Aegon's Conquest movie. But, you know, he's great and, you know, I'm excited by the prospect of it, but, like, throwing this out in real time.

Joanna Robinson (13:37)

Hit me. Let me know what you think. Yes. All right. Because my first thought also was Egon's Conquest, since we have most recently heard that talked about as a film adaptation, we had spent a lot of the Night of the Seven Kingdoms season discussing, because it is stitched throughout as a reference point. And then, of course, we glimpsed Red Grass Field, the first Blackfyre rebellion, and talking about, okay, well, when and how will we see that in full? Now, if Knight of the Seven Kingdoms is a success, which it undeniably is, which it is right then, and we have the confidence as a result of that that we will continue on with the story, does it make more sense to give us the context and the backdrop of the first Blackfyre rebellion as a tandem timeline in terms of how we are, where we're receiving it, film, rather than saying, when are we gonna ever get the Blackfire show? And then in the TV landscape. We are just constantly weaving in and out of timelines. We started here with Game of Thrones. If you wanna know what I mean by here, you gotta watch the video podcast. Cause my hand is just in the air. I'm just doing some Joanna Robinson TM arm map. TM work right here. We start with Game of Thrones, then we go to House of the Dragon. Right? Right. Then we have a Knight of the Seven Kingdoms. Then we're gonna go to Aegon's conquest. What if we just stayed right here for a minute and did Blackfyre 13 years before night of the Seven Kingdoms?

Mallory Rubin (15:00)

I think, I think that's so smart. And I think what's cast that's spectacle

Joanna Robinson (15:03)

of film plus palace intrigue. To your point.

Mallory Rubin (15:06)

Once we. Once we cast like Bloodraven and you know, and then we could have like, if we cast someone exciting for like Bittersteel or you know, any of the other players named Blackfyre, you know, to have the consistency of like this is who we see in the flashb back. But we've cast someone kind of juicy because we cast them also in the film. So they have a whole film. You know, we're able to like cast someone kind. You know, I'm not saying it's Henry Cavill, but like we're able to cast someone like quite movie star, but like Henry, you know, a movie star. Because they get a. But they get a movie. Yeah. And then they'll show up and do the. The flashbacks for Night of the Seven Kingdom. I love this. I would be very curious to hear. I here's why I would be surprised. I think it's a great idea and I think Casey and everyone else at Warner Brothers before that whole place lights on fire should listen to you and pick up that idea. I think the reason I'm slightly skeptical of it is like I think this is the kind of idea they would have once they see how well and I the Seven Kingdoms was received in his back half. And for the Bo Williman news to reach us, it feels too soon, too close to. You know what I mean? Like they have to have been in conversation with him for a while before it hits the the rap.com today, you know, so that's why I'm skeptical about it. But I think your idea is better and right and they should just pivot to doing that. So I think. I love it.

Joanna Robinson (16:28)

Great. We've agreed.

Mallory Rubin (16:29)

We've solved it. Great. We fixed it. We fixed it. All right. Speaking of source text, we got a. We got several book questions that I'm going to try to mash into sort of like one book section here.

Joanna Robinson (16:40)

Let's do it.

Mallory Rubin (16:41)

Because the bad babies are constantly looking for reading recommendations, et cetera, et cetera, as we tease. I want to start here as we teased on the previous podcast when we said we were doing this mailbag episode. You have now read and finished the Will of the Many. James Islington's book the Strength of Few is a sequel that is out that you have not, I believe, started yet, but, you know, have. Have your eyes on it. Um, so without. Maybe like. And then. And then we got a ton of emails, ton of emails from Bhad Bhabies who said they have read the. The Will of the Many in the last year or both books in the last year because we've been sort of talking around it on the. Our pal Zach Cram wrote in to the POD about it, like all this sort of stuff like that. So tell me what you thought of the Will of the Many. I know you liked it, but tell me your thoughts about it. But maybe without spoiling all the details of it for folks who want to still read it for themselves.

Joanna Robinson (17:37)

Yes. I'm reluctant to say too much because one of the things I enjoyed about it the most is that there are quite a few surprises along the way. And I found that aspect of the reading experience to be quite energizing. There are a number of moments where I was like, something has happened that I did not expect. And that's exciting. So you had recommended the book to me. Cram had recommended it. Usually if one of you recommends something, I know it's gonna be good. When both of you do, I know it's a guaranteed banger. Right. So that was exciting. I. Listen, this is. It's been a minor controversy in my life. I read this as part of a side book club. You know about my Prime Book club. Yeah, I know it's been a. It's. It's. I know, I know, I know.

Mallory Rubin (18:23)

And I think my first question is, why am I not in your other book club? You can be in.

Joanna Robinson (18:27)

You can be at both of them.

Mallory Rubin (18:29)

Okay.

Joanna Robinson (18:31)

So I have a now long running since like year one of COVID Remote Zoom Book Club with my. My best pals, my college pals, my Syracuse Palace. We call it Pulp because it is both an orange pun and paper and also palace united in literary pleasure, I have to say.

Mallory Rubin (18:47)

Yeah, I was wondering why you read the Will of the Many. Usually when you tell me you've read a book, it's because either it's for work or it's for your book club because you're very, very busy. You have a lot going on. And so when you were like, I read the Will of the Many, I was like, man. Well, she finally got so excited by

Joanna Robinson (19:02)

one of my book recs, figuring out, like, how to. Because the. The. The Pulp Book club schedule and then just rereading or reading things for work, those are kind of the primary. You know, that's a lot across the year. And then I look for spots where I can just either. Sometimes one of my pals in the primary book club in Pulp will do, like, a little.

Mallory Rubin (19:21)

A little.

Joanna Robinson (19:22)

We call it squad battle after reading Fourth Wing. And that's probably not what it's called. I can't even remember. My brain is like, mush. But fourth wing, it's just. It feels like 800 years ago that I read that, even though it was like, two years ago. And so every now and then, I look for an opportunity to read something else. And a couple of my good pals, both of whom listen to this podcast, they love books, and we talk about books a lot. And there was an exciting moment where we thought, what if we read a book or two together? And I threw out the Will of the Many with them, with Steve and Drew, because one of my other friends in the Prime Book Club had already read it and had talked to us about it. And so I considered it ineligible for that book club because Taylor had already read it. When I. I felt it was important to tell the book club that I was gonna be doing this, cheating on them. And I was mercilessly annihilated by my closest friends in the world because this will surprise nobody to hear, including you. I had previously, I had some strong feedback for Katie, one of my other dear friends, when she went on a side book club journey. And so, you know, it sounds familiar. Yeah, this is just fits all. Anyway, had a great time reading the Will of the Many. Had a great time reading it and discussing it last week at dinner with Steve and Drew. And we will be continuing our side book club. We will be. So I'll have to figure out how to. How to navigate it all. They're huge readers and big fans of genre storytelling in particular. And so it's a very exciting thing, the Everlasting, which you'll talk about more, I think, in a few minutes. I had picked. We alternate in Pulp. It's five of us. We take turns picking, and then every now and then, if there's consensus, we do a group pick. And so whenever Lasting was announced. I said I'm going to pick that as one of my picks in the future. Have not gotten to it because it's not my turn yet, but it's coming up very soon anyway. Will of the many Ewan Cram had recommended it. My pal Taylor said it was fantastic. I knew I would like it. I thought it was really conceptually riveting. Like the.

Mallory Rubin (21:38)

The idea the world building, the magic systems.

Joanna Robinson (21:41)

Yeah, these like the kind of like Greco Roman setting, but the magic systems you had my memory. I was trying to remember when you told me about it in the first place. And I don't. This might be apocryphal. Not sure if I've mentioned in the last 10 minutes that my brain is mush, but my memory is that you told me about it during andor when we were talking about systems and oppressive regimes and also like the idea of rebelling against that kind of oppressive power. But also when there's some aspect of like complicity in society. That was my memory of how. Of how you had first talked to me about it. So it's very intriguing by the concept and I think I'm really interested to see where it goes moving forward, pacing wise. Because it's a really long book and it moves without spoiling the specifics in and out of different settings, like locations and thus contextual character sets. And so some of those stretches I just enjoyed more than others. And like, you know, I love a magic school, so that was all very fun. And Viz is a really interesting main character who is very, very good at everything. And that's like one of my few notes is that he's a Mary Sue. Viz is a Mary. Is a Mary Sue. Yeah. So that just. That saps a tiny, tiny, tiny bit of dramatic tension for me because I'm always confident he's going to find a way to solve whatever the conundrum of the moment is. That said, again, I think just the kind of Lay of the Land was really philosophically stimulating and I think it's a good time for people to read a book like this. I'm really interested to see narratively based on how the first book ends, which I won't spoil. Like structurally where that takes in the future. And also there's a wolf pal, which is just, you know, extremely my shit.

Mallory Rubin (23:28)

I will. So I will say for your. When you finish, you sort of like floated a guess about like what the structure of the second book would be. And I don't. I mean, it's just the structure of the book. So I don't think it's a spoiler to say that Guess is pretty accurate. And as a result, and again, I'm trying to be as vague as possible, I would say some of the side characters get a shorter shrift in the second book in a way that, like, made it less of a success for me. And Zach Cram agreed with me. Jacoby agreed with me. Like everyone who's read Strength of Few is like, it's not as good as the Will of the Many, but it's still, like, quite good. And I'm invested and curious to see where it goes next. I believe the reason I got into the Will of the Many in the first place is because when I was like a more active participant in Ringiverse Recommends, I was trying to do like a new book every single month. And I was just really tracking what was popping on the fantasy books subreddit, which is like an excellent place to track sort of like what's new, what people are excited about, et cetera. So that's how I got into that, that book in the first place. That was one of my ringer verse recommends books. And I've been really excited to see how adoration for this book has grown. And again, especially hearing from all the, all the bad babies, we had a lot of listeners say they picked it up because we had sort of talked around it or about it on the, on the podcast. That's really exciting. I will put, like, the full push of my support also behind Alex Harrow's book Everlasting, which Mallory said she's going to be reading in the future in her pulp book club. Because I just think it's like one of the best we talked about in the Valentine's Day episode. But I just think it's one of the best books I've read in a really, really long time. You know, for fans of, if you're, if you're, you know, one of the people who listen to our podcast mostly when we're talking about Game of Thrones, like, this is so Thrones coded, but it's a time travel timey wimey. Really wrap your head in Knott's kind of time travel story, which I love, like a puzzle. So you're trying to follow the trails and the ripples of the impact of what time travel can do. In that way. It reminded me a bit of, to say nothing of the Dog, a Connie Willis book that I really love. But this lady knight and this sort of like, weedy historian and their sort of adventures through time and dragons, you Know, villainous queens and all these other things together and sort of like, what makes a legend, what makes a story, what makes a good story. It's got all this meat on the bone that. I can't wait to hear your thoughts on it when you get there. I'm really excited for that.

Joanna Robinson (26:04)

I can't remember if it's my pick next or if I'm two away, but it'll be something I read this spring for sure.

Mallory Rubin (26:09)

I also know that we both read Katabasis by RF Kuang, which was like, a book we had talked about being excited about. We haven't really got into it in detail, but we both read it and loved it. Anything you want to say? Specifically Katabasis.

Joanna Robinson (26:21)

That was my last pick for the pulp book club, in fact, And I thought it was a strong pick for book club because it's a really fun one, not only to read, but to discuss. I thought I had a blast reading this. I mean, the. You know, we were so excited. I remember when we first saw kind of like the blurb, the log line for it, and this idea of this. This mashup of magic school, fantasy, dark academia with, like, mythology and the. We love world mythology nerds. So, like, that incorporation was so interesting.

Mallory Rubin (26:49)

I.

Joanna Robinson (26:50)

Again, this is one that I am very reluctant to get into particulars on because I don't want to spoil it for people. But I will say reading it in real time, the layers of exploration and questing, the different aspects of hell that we journey into with our characters. I just thought I could have read 4,000 pages of that stuff. Actually, when we get some of the deeper layers and we don't get to actually explore in as much detail, I was like, no, I just love. I want more of it. I thought that was great.

Mallory Rubin (27:23)

Right.

Joanna Robinson (27:24)

I loved the way that we moved in and out of the present timeline and when we were presented with some insights into past events, whether or not you have any relationship to pursuing these advanced degrees and the specific aspects of the really, like, cutthroat realm of that level of academic pursuits, I think there's something, like, very relatable for us and people like us in a character like Alice. And, you know, this idea, I'm in

Mallory Rubin (28:03)

this picture, and I don't like it. One of those. One of those moments. Yeah, there's a lot of that.

Joanna Robinson (28:08)

But this idea of, like, really, you know, where do you. What do you do and where do you go? Where do you allow yourself to go if you are trying to be the best at something was, like. It was a Fascinating portrait of that. The thing that, like, stuck with me. I'm really going to be careful here because I think this is the most likely to inadvertently be a spoiler, so I'll speak in kind of vague terms. The thing that stuck with me the most. It has stuck with me the most in the subsequent months since I read it in a way that I really appreciate because this is something that we talk about a lot, and I really enjoy when a story not just asks or invites us, but requires us to think about this, not assuming that, you know, what somebody else is going through. Like, that's a really big part of the story, and I think it explores that in a

Mallory Rubin (28:58)

pretty upset of the way.

Joanna Robinson (29:01)

Exactly.

Mallory Rubin (29:02)

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I agree.

Joanna Robinson (29:06)

And we.

Mallory Rubin (29:06)

So, you know, we've got two. Two main characters who are traveling through various circles of hell together to sort of rival PhD candidates in pursuit of their advisor who has, you know, passed over. And they need their letters of recommendation. That's, like, the premise.

Joanna Robinson (29:26)

Great concept.

Mallory Rubin (29:27)

Their. Their relationships, the various layers of mythology. All the things that you talked about is there when we get into peeling back the onion, the layer of the onion, I would say, on Alice more specifically, but on both of them, that sort of like, you never know what someone's going through. A thing that you're.

Joanna Robinson (29:44)

You're.

Mallory Rubin (29:45)

We're in Alice's POV for most of it, and then we get some more information. But, like. But even though we're inside of her pov, Rebecca, the author, has done, I think, a really good job of hiding the ball on certain things for. For, like, you know, pacing. What. It's hard to do that when you're inside someone's head to then hide from the reader sort of aspects of that person because they already know everything. And so it's. It's about going through hell and having to confront and peel back your. The layers of your own onion as you go through this, like, sort of journey. But, like, I will never forget I was cleaning my kitchen. I think I was, like, literally on the floor cleaning, like, the floor of my kitchen when I was listening to the chapters of this book that take it from, like, good to masterpiece level, in my opinion. And I just was, like, I was just stunned. So, like, I think if you pick up this book and you're like, this is a pretty good, like, adventure through hell. You know, I've read His Dark Materials. I know, you know, like, I get it. And then I would say, I think there's a much greater depth in the story coming. That, for me, will Stick with me forever. Because it's a very complicated portrait with very complicated power dynamics and a very complicated portrait of a young woman inside of a punishing environment. And it doesn't make excuses and it just presents just I think an extremely complicated portrait of someone. And the way in which Rebecca has talked about this book, the way in which like she's a bit of a self insert character for Alice and so like what is she examining about her? I don't want to make presumptions about her own life but like how personal is. This is intriguing to me. The qualities in Peter that are parallel to her husband and all this sort of stuff like that. I just like. I think she did an incredible job with this. So I loved the fantasy. I could have. I'm with you. I could have taken like even more mythological sort of like fantasy See moments inside of the. We kind of abandoned that a bit at the end but. But in terms of like where it decided the depth it decides to plumb. I thought it was really extraordinary. So that would be my review of that book and then just sort of like are there any books coming out in 2026 that you're. Whether you plan to book club them or. Or not that you're excited about?

Joanna Robinson (32:12)

I want to hear your 2026. I. I'm excited as I always am. Not to this is not necessarily House of Our Affair but you know there's a new George Saunders, so that's always an event. Again, shout out Syracuse now and always. This came out at the end of last year or this came out actually I don't know when in 2020. This is a 2025 book and it's not a genre book so it's not a house of Art book. But I literally finished this at 1am last night and have to mention it because it's just mere hours ago since I finished reading. I tore through this book in just a couple days. I couldn't put it down. This is. My friend Suzanne picked this for book club. The Correspondent Virginia Evans, which was on like a lot of the Best of the Best of the year list last year. I thought this was really wonderful and like very affecting. First of all, it's like formally quite interesting. It's as the title the Correspondent might indicate, it is written through a series of letters. And I really like when a novel plays with form like that. It also just makes it so propulsive because each like chapters a couple pages and then you're like well, oh, I just. I just have this one. Next one will take me three minutes. And then before you know it it's 3am and you've been reading for hours.

Mallory Rubin (33:23)

The.

Joanna Robinson (33:24)

The protagonist, Sybil, is like a just instantly indelible character to me. And I thought without getting into any of the particulars, that this was a really profound and poignant and I think I was shocked to learn after finishing it that this was Virginia Evans first book, that this is her debut novel debut. Because this is. It has a wisdom to me, a fully lived life. And I thought that it was incredibly, incredibly gut wrenching and like full of sorrow, but also just drenched in hope and possibility. I really thought it was lovely. It's quite short. I would recommend it. Again, not a. Not a sci fi or fantasy tale, but really thought it was wonderful. And I think I'll be thinking I was texting my friends. I'm like, I already finished this. Can we move book club up like two weeks? And they're like, none of us have started. Chill. But that was, that was great. And I can't remember if I mentioned this on the last mailbag we did when we were talking about some books. I honestly can't recall if I mentioned this when we last did some. But I read Orbital pretty recently and the Samantha Harvey 2024 Booker winner. That was dynamite. Gorgeous. The prose in that book, maybe not for everybody. In terms of the. Again, kind of structurally interesting, playing with form a bit in terms of your ability to immerse in the character. This was one of the most beautifully written sci fi books that I have read in some time. The language is just stunning. Jo, is there a new Court of Thorns and Roses book coming out? I saw stuff on Instagram like, oh, there was photo of a notebook with the clue and it's like, are we getting book six? Maybe six and seven? Is that a thing? Is that like actually happening this year? Is it more of a whisper for a future time?

Mallory Rubin (35:17)

So I think the like, you know, is a new Taylor Swift album dropping sort of obsessives are in the mix here. But there has been a. So Alice Cooper teased that she's gonna have Sarah J. Maas on the Call Her Daddy podcast. She teased that like yesterday, I think. And so they think it's Gonn announced on that podcast perhaps the release date that is probably gonna be this year. I think the manuscript has allegedly been done since like the beginning of last year. So they've been like in edits. They haven't announced a release date. The last acotar book came out in 2021. So this would be like A huge deal if we got Number six here this year because she's. She has other series, you know, Crescent City and like, other things that she works on. But damn. Yeah, so. So we might know as soon as, like, next time we record, we might know when a new Acotar book.

Joanna Robinson (36:10)

But number six sounds like it's about to be time to break the whiteboards back out. That's what I'm hearing.

Mallory Rubin (36:15)

Exciting. Exciting.

Joanna Robinson (36:16)

I mean, we're getting another break at any point.

Mallory Rubin (36:18)

So in terms of what I'm like, what I know is coming and I'm very excited about. Yes, my number one, without question, I like, squealed when I saw the book trailer on Instagram, is Leigh Bardugo's third Alex Stern book, Deadbeat. So that's Ninth House. House and Hellbent were the first two. And Hellbent, by the way, if you're like, oh, academics go to hell to rescue someone Hell bent. Did it before Catapasis, but that's okay. Ninth House is one of my. I love Ninth House and Hellbent so much. And Alex Stern, the main character of this, of this series, plays a young woman who can see. Who can see dead people, who is very, like, magically inclined, has had a kind of quite traumatic life due to that, of course, but is like, sort of drafted into this, like, secret cabal of magic at Yale. It reminds me a lot. I think we talked about it, maybe it reminds me a lot of the demon lizard patriarchy episode of Buffy. This sort of like how the rich. The skull and crossbones. Is that what it's called? Skull and Bones? Secret society at Yale. It's like, what if that were, like, magic and we were, like, sacrificing people in order to, like, beat the stock market or whatever. So this, like, really cool system of, like, magic and secret society. And then Alex Stern is this sort of like, not to the manor born interloper inside of this world, but she's drafted in because her magical skills are so potent. And then Darlington is the name of her sort of advisor kind of character. And he's like, it's just very exciting. The fact that we're getting a third book I am so excited about, but I really recommend 9th House in Hell Bent. Absolutely incredible books. And I'm really excited for Deadbeat that's coming out later this year. Another series that's getting a third this year is the Robert Jackson Bennett series. Tainted cup was the first one, which I talked about a lot when it came out. Drop of Corruption came out this last year. And Then A Trade of Blood is the third one. And these are like a very sort of like very magical Holmes and Watson esque mystery novels, but set in this fantastical world. And I just, I love these books. I think the world building is incredible. I think the characters are so fun. And I'm just, I'm really, really, really excited that, like, two of my favorite series are getting third installments this year is, like, very, very exciting for me. Emily St. John Mandel, who we love Station 11, has a book Exit Party coming out this year, and I just want to read the description to you. Set in 2031, where America is at war with itself. Who knew? But the Republic of California has been signed into existence. And in Los Angeles, the curfew has been lifted. And quote, tonight everyone is going to party. The synopsis continues. Ari, recently out of prison, and her friend Gloria find themselves amid these celebrations as a New age dons. But there are people at this particular party who shouldn't be here. Something is very wrong. So, like Emily St. John Mandel's established track record of being able to write about, you know, dystopian futures and how human psychology plays into that. This idea of like the danger inside of a celebration. I don't know, all of that is just like really, really pinging something to me.

Joanna Robinson (39:45)

I'm excited for that one.

Mallory Rubin (39:46)

There's a. Yeah, there's also, I know that I think CRAM has been trying to get us to read the Fonda Lee books, and I have not yet done that. But the Last Contract of Isako, which is Fonda Lee's new book that's coming out this year, people are really, really excited about that one. So that's on my exciting, that's on my list to get into Fonda Lee. And then in terms of, like, adaptations. Yeah, yeah, we've, we, you know, Dune, Messiah and the Magician's Nephew and you know, the Book of Magic, Practical Magic too, we all talked about on our, on our Hypedraft. So like, you know, book adaptations, we're very excited about Project Hail Mary, obviously, Sunrise on the Reaping, I'm actually kind of excited about that as I was like mixed pause on, On Song, Songbirds and Snakes. But Sunrise on the Reaping, everyone, which is like the Haymitch prequel, people have been responding really positively. People in my life have been responding really positively to that book and are very excited about this movie. So I'm interested, maybe just want to

Joanna Robinson (40:47)

get back into To Hunger Games. It's been a minute. One of my favorite One of my favorite memories, this is a hundred years ago, back when we lived in New York, before we even moved to la. I'd read the Hunger Games. I really liked all of the books. I recommended them to Adam. He was a pain in the ass about it, as always. And then, so every now and then he'll like, surprise me by revealing in some way that he has read something that I had been asking him to read. I was like, at like a midnight release for a movie. I got home really late from something. It was like 3:00am and this again, this was when we lived in New York. So I was young, I had energy. I would say I was a woman about town, but that's not true. I probably went out like 12 total times in the five and a half years I lived there.

Mallory Rubin (41:28)

But your joints didn't make that disturbing cracking noise that they made. They've always done that.

Joanna Robinson (41:34)

Okay.

Mallory Rubin (41:35)

They've always done that. Okay.

Joanna Robinson (41:37)

And I was, I. I can't remember what I asked him, but I was like, you know, hi, or I'm home or something. And I asked him some question. And whatever I said allowed his response to be, there is no district 12.

Mallory Rubin (41:53)

And that's how he revealed that he had.

Joanna Robinson (41:55)

And he was like, oh, yeah. Cause I really in particular liked Catching Fire, so that was very exciting. Oh, that's okay.

Mallory Rubin (42:01)

Maybe this is me. Catching Fire is so good.

Joanna Robinson (42:03)

That one's great.

Mallory Rubin (42:05)

I mean, I gotta say, like, Battle of Songbirds and Snakes. As much as I made fun of, like the title of that movie, like, I didn't hate that movie. I actually like, kind of liked it.

Joanna Robinson (42:13)

I haven't seen it. I'm going to catch up. I'm going to catch up.

Mallory Rubin (42:16)

And the cast, the cast for, you know, your beloved Ralph Fiennes is here. Like, the cast for Sunrise on the Reaping is incredibly good. So I'm excited.

Joanna Robinson (42:24)

He's never made one misstep in and let me tell you, never a bad movie. Finally watched Bone Temple over the weekend. Oh, historic stuff from our guy, Ralph Fiennes. Historic.

Mallory Rubin (42:38)

Some of.

Joanna Robinson (42:38)

And for a musical enthusiast such as yourself and a dance enthusiast such as yourself, it is art of the highest order. Genuinely, he's just. He's the best. On the adaptation front, I have obviously no ability to comment on this, but on the Brando Santa front, what did you make of the Apple TV news that, like, is that exciting?

Mallory Rubin (42:59)

Oh, potentially didn't include any questions about that from our listeners. We did get a lot of questions about that because, like, I'm embarrassed to Say I have not read the Cosmere. I like started and not finished the first book in. In one of his many, many series.

Joanna Robinson (43:14)

Yeah, because you had begun your Brando Sando journey recently and I have still, I have not so well, I read

Mallory Rubin (43:20)

Trust of the Emerald Sea and I really liked it and I read the Nightmare. Like I read a couple of like the sort of more standalones and then I really tried to like get into the one of the big series and I flamed out a little bit and I feel embarrassed by it. So I don' not allowed to have any opinions about Cosmere, but I'm excited for people that it's happening and I hope it. It turns out to be more impactful than. And I'm not on Wheel of Time. I just know that it like it. I don't think it landed exactly the way that I think a lot of people really loved it. I think a lot of people were really excited by it, but I don't think it became like, you know, the Thrones level or even, I would say Rings of Power level sort of adaptation project that people who are fans of the Robert Jordan books were hoping it would be. So I hope that whatever happens with this Cosmere adaptation, it is everything the Brando Sando fans want it to be. Okay, this next question comes from Jordan. That was like a mashup of like nine different book questions. So thank you to everyone who sent their book questions. This next question comes from Jordan who says I'm about to rewatch two of my all time favorites, the Expanse and Black Sails. These are some of my all time favorite moments in media, especially Toby Stevens speeches and Black Sails. What it is an underrated show or performance that does not get talked about enough where you just think to yourself, okay, that is good. That is what I'm talking about. So yeah, Mallory, this is a, this is a chance. I mean, I, I struggle with this question a little bit because like, what stone have we left unturned in terms of us like trying to highlight and

Joanna Robinson (44:57)

said like, should we not do this? Because I don't know how to answer this. In a way we already. We haven't already. But then I was.

Mallory Rubin (45:02)

I found myself a few faves that I don't think I've talked about a lot.

Joanna Robinson (45:08)

I'm leaning into the. I have been paralyzed by debilitating regret about not having mentioned a couple things as much as I wanted to or at all in the Best of the Century so Far series. And I was going to use that as an opportunity to Rectify that. But hit us with what you have. Tell, tell us. Well, did you stick with TV shows?

Mallory Rubin (45:24)

I'll just echo. I will echo that in terms of the Expanse, which is a show that I flamed out on though a lot of people love. But I love the first, first, the first season I love. And then a bit into the second season, but when it was like space noir, like that's what I really loved. And then it sort of moved out of that into more just sort of like space politics, which is like still very interesting to a lot of people. But it like moved away from what I loved and so I kind of bailed out on it. But I do think that like season one of the Expanse and into season two is like really top tier space stuff. Ashes to Ashes is a show. I don't talk about it a lot, but it's from the early aughts. It's, it's a UK show. It was a sequel to Life on Mars which was a UK show that was made into a terrible American show. But Ashes to Ashes, basically both. The premise of both Life on Mars and Ashes to Ashes, both named after David Bowie songs, is that like a cop in modern day gets shot, injured, somehow put into a, a coma that may or may not also be time travel. And so they're sent back in time. And so in Life on Mars, Johnson's character is sent back in time to the 70s and Ashes to Ashes, Kea's character is sent back in time to the 80s and but you have the same characters that were in the 70s world are now in the 80s world. And I just loved Ashes to Ashes. Both of those shows kind, you know, Ashes Ashes more like fall apart a little bit as you, as you go forward it gets a little like as they're trying to land their premise gets a little like whatever, but it counts because it's time travel. Question mark or is it not? We're not sure, but sort of this like fish out of water, especially like this like 2000s lady cop inside of the world of like 80s, you know, sexism and stuff like that. Philip Glenister, who plays the gov, the head of the department in both series is just like one of my all time favorite performances of anything ever. So Ashes to Ashes, I never talk about the Magicians we have talked about. Legion, we have talked about. But like yeah, those are both worth another mention. Always though both of those just like aren't as seen as they're as they deserve to be. First couple seasons of Penny Dreadful I would also sort of put on the list. Yeah, absolutely dreadful.

Joanna Robinson (47:47)

That's really lost to time, but that's. That show was quite assured in its sense of self in a way I really admire. And some just great performances, including from our shared wife, David Green. Just one of the most beautiful people. That's evergreen.

Mallory Rubin (48:02)

Incredible. Yeah. Really, really good shit. The Green Knight, Dev Patel. Dev Patel has been getting a lot of, you know, you and I love Dev Patel. We. We spent an entire south by getting really excited for a movie that wasn't very good, but we were excited to be in the presence of Deb. But Dev has been getting a lot of play on my Instagram reels lately because a lot of people really wanted him as Heathcliff in Wuthering Heights. And. And I gotta say, like, thinking about Wuthering Heights with Deb Patel and it is just like, what a what if. But anyway, the Green Knight I thought deserved way more love than it got. David Lowry's incredible, visually incredible, like, sort of psychedelic exploration of a great Arthurian tale, which I really love. I wanna. I wanna say this is not gonna be impressive to you, but I. So Ralph Anderson, who plays the Green Knight in that and shows up in a ton of fantasy things. I was talking to Rob and Kai after we went to go see a screening or something, and we were just out on the street having a curbside conversation and we were talking about Ralph Innison and one of them was like, oh, wasn't he in Game of Thrones? And I was like, oh, yeah, Dagmer Klefja. And they just looked at me that they were like, I'm sorry, who? And I was like, Dagmar Cleftra, obviously. And I just felt so, like I'm in the wrong conversation. Feel like if I were talking to you, it would be like you'd be like, yeah, of course.

Joanna Robinson (49:30)

Some wonderful, really wonderful armor design on the Iron Islanders in. In that stretch of Game of Thrones in season two. Very memorable.

Mallory Rubin (49:38)

Very memorable to some. Last. Let me wrap up. I talk about the fall a lot. The LE film, Gorgeous. Again, one of the most visually exquisite things a. A 4K disk that I own that I love, but occasionally gets released out into theaters. So if you can go see it on the big screen. I. I saw it at the Alamo in San Francisco a couple years ago. It was just like such a lush, incredible experience.

Joanna Robinson (50:06)

Steve Almond's favorite. He loves that movie.

Mallory Rubin (50:09)

He does love the fall. Dead Like Me. We talked about Pushing Daisies, but Dead Like Me was. Yeah, yeah. Incredible, incredible. Brian Fuller show before Pushing Daisies that I really love Mandy Patinkin. So good. There's some like incredible scenes with Mandy and like the Waffle House that they like would, would meet up in and cal Blue. Like I, I just, I really loved that show. And then last but not least, I think on my list this is Diana, my best friend. Diana suggested this Star Trek Voyager, which is like not one we talk about a lot, but she said specifically the Doctor in Seven of Nine. Seven of Nine is Jeri Ryan's character who's a, who's a Borg. And basically Diana's point, and it's a really good one, is that Jeri Ryan was hired to be like the tits and ass on that show. Like you know, they like an extremely hot woman that they, they put in like you know, a skin type bodysuit and they're just like, is she not hot? And you're like, yeah, but, but she's so good that they then gave her like the best storyline because it's this exploration of the Borg and humanity and individualism and the bliss of the collective and all this sort of just like really complicated Star Trek Star Trek stuff that, that you can get into. But just like I love the Jeri Ryan show up. Knew she was eye candy, was so good at her job that they're like, oh, you could do so much more. It's like we talked about this a lot with Battlestar Galactica when the character of Cap Chris six was supposed to be just sort of like eye candy. But then that performance was so good by Trisha Helfer that they turned that into something quite extraordinary. So yeah, that would be my list of things that I don't talk a lot about but still have great list. A cozy corner in my heart.

Joanna Robinson (51:54)

How about we had. We definitely had some overlap. Dead Like Me, Legion, Penny Dreadful, the Fall. I. I mostly just wanted to use this as an opportunity to like formally apologize to my, myself and everyone I've let down for. I really can't believe I haven't had a Fringe entry on Best of the Century so far yet. Because it is a show that I love and I think it fits both aspects of the prompt here with like the property itself, but then also the performances inside of it. Because I think Anna Torv in Fringe as Olivia is just. It's such.

Mallory Rubin (52:33)

And fo Livia quite, quite right and

Joanna Robinson (52:39)

it's just such a. Especially like you know, you're sharing all of these scenes and some just an amazing as it always is John noble performance as Dr. Bishop and of course course Joshua Jackson is here as his son, Peter Bishop. The blend of energies and degrees that the three of them are bringing in all of their scenes. Lance Reddick is wonderful in this show. Leonard Nimoy was in Fringe, which was a really fun thing to share with Adam because he's like, Adam is a Trekkie like you and literally his just all time favorite. And so that was just super fun. There's a great Blair Brown performance. But I feel like Fringe, while really entrenched as a beloved cult classic, is a little lost to the sands of time and like, you know, existed in this interesting way as very much and you know, this is a bad robot. J.J. abrams, part of this like real era of J.J. abrams. It is a J.J. abrams show, but also part of this moment in time where we had a lot of J.J.

Mallory Rubin (53:41)

abrams pop up and like Lost and Alias and like et cetera, et cetera. Yeah, exactly.

Joanna Robinson (53:46)

And so like that, that those aspects certainly. But there's such a clear debt that Fringe owes to Twilight Zone, X Files, et cetera. Right. And it has a real procedural, so it was on Fox. It aired from 08 to 13. It's like 100 episodes. It's not like the easiest thing to just say, I'm going to go back and watch Fringe. There's a lot of Fringe, five seasons. But the procedural aspects of it for like a network show of that era, really fun. As the mythology started to deepen and it became this like really entrenched characters on an arc serialized story, it moved into a different tier. And I think probably a lot of people didn't make it to that point in the show. And I think it's really worth, you know, like if you're into a lot of the stuff so that we cover here, you know, the kind of like paranormal sci fi fantasy, like alternate worlds, aspects, alternate timelines, alternate versions of yourself, et cetera. That's all there. It's a very weird, like unapologetically weird and I think it is quite funny, but also very intense. And it's really driven by like inward character motivations that reveal themselves over time. And like there's a great slow burn romance in it that is like still again, a shock to me that they didn't the didn't make our recent Valentine's Day episode. There's like a great father son relationship. It's just really, it's a show I love and I miss and I'm long, long, long overdue for a rewatch. So felt like an opportunity here to rectify my recent wrong of not toasting it on best of the century so far and toasting it here and then this one is completely predictable. But if I didn't mention Dark while we got this question, it would be just obsessive.

Mallory Rubin (55:35)

I told myself I wasn't allowed to mention dark, but this question exactly exists

Joanna Robinson (55:40)

to talk about dark and celebrate dark. I mention it every chance I get on the pod. But like, if you've not yet watched Dark, it's only three seasons. German language, Netflix, time travel mystery show that is one of the most fully realized.

Mallory Rubin (55:54)

Google. Yeah, Google anything about it.

Joanna Robinson (55:56)

Honestly, don't even look at the cast list because you'll get spoilers there. Like look at nothing. Look at nothing other than the thumbnail on your television screen as you click in. And then try not to look at like pictures. Just look at the first episode and then just let it kind of boot the next episode.

Mallory Rubin (56:12)

Autoplay.

Joanna Robinson (56:12)

Yeah, yeah, it does that for you. Just a sensational. One of the most brilliant. This is like the ultimate corkboard, you know, strings on my theory tracker show. But you don't have to watch it that way. You can though, and that's very fun. So check that out. If you haven't. It's. It's the best. It's the best.

Mallory Rubin (56:31)

And I will co sign, you know, this, this message from Jordan. I will say Black Sails is a phenomenal show that does not get enough love and, and the, the writing in it is so beautiful and. And Toby Stevens is incredible. This is a Treasure island sort of like prequel kind of thing. And it's just like. Yeah, I mean it's the same creators who did Percy Jackson. So there's a lot of like DNA crossover there. But like it's, it's quite under narrated and just like, yeah, some of the most beautiful writing and. And speechifying you ever did see. I'm just gonna go to this question we got from Ben about Survivor 50. The question I think I believe was.

Joanna Robinson (57:17)

I have it. Hold on. It is Survivor 50. 50 winner picks and predictions for who from the season 50 cast gets the White Lotus. Oh, yeah, Cameo.

Mallory Rubin (57:26)

This is easy. This is easy.

Joanna Robinson (57:28)

I, I had a very quick answer for the White Lotus cameo as well,

Mallory Rubin (57:32)

but it's siree like is interesting.

Joanna Robinson (57:36)

Okay, so Mike White is on Kalo callo I don't heal.

Mallory Rubin (57:41)

So this is Survivor 50 just in case you guys don't watch Survivor. This is the 50th season of Survivor they brought back.

Joanna Robinson (57:46)

Yeah.

Mallory Rubin (57:48)

A lot of, you know, a lot of faves, some conspicuous absences. There are various reasons for that. A lot of new era players are here. A surprising amount. You can hear Riley McAtee, Mallory Rubin and Tyson himself from Survivor talk about this on the pot of. Spoken like there's been a lot of great ringer coverage on this. I am by no means a Survivor expert. I am like a new recruit recruited by Mallory into the world of Survivor, so.

Joanna Robinson (58:15)

But I did win my Survivor betting pool. A new recruit who won a pool last season 49.

Mallory Rubin (58:21)

I did win my pool season 49. Anyway, I have watched almost every season that is like these people are represented from not every single one though. There's some new era seasons that I haven't watched. So there are some players that are like a little bit of a black box to me. I just think that siree who is this like absolute Survivor legend, a lot of people call her the greatest player to never have won, etc. Etc. A member of the black widow brigade, which is like the, I think the best fucking thing that's ever happened on Survivor, et cetera. Like Sari is here and a lot of people are rooting for her to like, this is her time, she's finally going to win sort of thing. I have some like, I believe that Survivor, the producers of Survivor put their thumb on the scale for various players. They can't control everything inside of a game, but in terms of like advantages and other things and like, you know, tribe swaps and all these like various things that they can control, I do think they put their thumb on the scale for like narratives that they think would, you know, would work out and stuff like that. And I think they are emotionally invested in Surrey going as far as she can go on.

Joanna Robinson (59:31)

I thought siree was your white Lotus.

Mallory Rubin (59:33)

No, she's. No, she's my white Lotus cameo. I don't know that she's gonna win. Okay, but I, but I, but she is my white Lotus cameo. So, so you were. Okay, so to go back to you, they have put us. They. There are three different tribes to start with.

Joanna Robinson (59:45)

Yes.

Mallory Rubin (59:46)

More players than usual. Three different tribes. Mike White is on a certain tribe.

Joanna Robinson (59:49)

So what is on the tribe? What is your. So okay, I was looking back.

Mallory Rubin (59:54)

We'll do our winner surprising abs.

Joanna Robinson (59:56)

Yes. Oh my God, he shredded. That was great. So previously the White Lotus cameos. Alec obviously is like an actual character. Alec plays Hutch in season one of White Lotus and Alec played with Mike White on my favorite season, David versus Goliath season two, Angelina and Cara. Angelina back now of course for season 50. But his already been on whitelist and the, the beach scene. With Daphne. And then season three, we got Natalie and Carl. And then very quickly a flash of. Of Christian. Christian, my favorite. We'll talk about that when we get to our winner predictions in a minute. I'm sure will. So all of the people who have appeared on White Lotus so far, and this of course makes sense, were on David versus Goliath. Now it's possible I'm missing somebody else who had a cameo from a different season, but basically this makes sense. They're. They played with Mike White. That's why they're there. And there were a lot of Goliaths because that was Mike White's tribe before we got to a David. So I basically, I was just like, who's on Mike White's tribe to start the season here? Because I'm not sure you don't think

Mallory Rubin (60:58)

he's making it to the merge or

Joanna Robinson (61:00)

even a tribe swap. But I would love to be wrong because I think it's not only is seeing him, I think he was just incredibly entertaining, as expected in the premiere, the three hour premiere, nothing could have shocked me more. I had a meeting with Riley the next day that just happened to be on the books and I was like, was this a known thing? Apparently it was. I had no idea.

Mallory Rubin (61:18)

It definitely was. But you and I both were like two hours in and we were like, how long is this premier? I mean, I was thrilled.

Joanna Robinson (61:25)

I would watch three hours every week. But that was stunning to me.

Mallory Rubin (61:29)

A lot.

Joanna Robinson (61:30)

So, okay, Mike White is on Callo Kalo, the teal tribe with Charlie, Tiff, Chrissy, Camilla, D, Coach and John. My early pick then would be D because they had the chompers chat, you know, Mike White complimenting the D. Are those yours?

Mallory Rubin (61:45)

No.

Joanna Robinson (61:46)

Great stuff. But my dream, my dream, I just beg the universe to give us this gift is for Mike White to make it at least to a tribe swap and to be on a tribe with Q so that Q can be on White Lotus, which I think frankly we all deserve.

Mallory Rubin (62:01)

I have to say, like it. I don't think we need to be as hemmed in by. Did Mike White play with them?

Joanna Robinson (62:08)

Maybe not.

Mallory Rubin (62:09)

There's all the like promo tour and then the like parties and stuff like that. So there's plenty of opportunity for him to like mix and mingle with players that he didn't like actively play with. But I think, I think you're right to narrow it down to that. I just think there's. I just think Siri, you know, I

Joanna Robinson (62:25)

mean that would be great.

Mallory Rubin (62:25)

That would be longs on that And I think my suspicion is so like you mentioned Christian, Rick, Devins, like this is. This is an incredible alliance that they've already given plenty of screen time to in. In. In this episode to like. So it would be incredible for them to go the distance together. Like that would be. They're so. I love Christian. They're so charismatic together. They're so delightful. I am suspicious that and this is based on me watching the like I forget which season it was but when they like brought Ay and coach back as like two heads of. Of dueling tribe but like like I felt like I could feel their thumb on the scale of that season of trying to keep both Ozzy and coach in as long as they could in that season because that was sort of like the whole core storyline of that season. So I feel like people like Siree and Coach and Ozzy like they're going to try to keep those people in as. As far as they can in. In the game is a suspicion I have. I don't think we're going to be like left with a bunch of like brand new era era players.

Joanna Robinson (63:33)

Yes. Towards the end of the season it's an interesting. There's a con. I, I think that's right. There's a conflict between maybe what the producers want and how the players will be inclined because.

Mallory Rubin (63:45)

Right. No, but like, but like as much as the producers can sure set up challenges where someone, you know serie might not flame out so hard on like a future challenge or you know, put an advantage, you know, like they're on exile island or whatever and there's like an advantage waiting. You know what I mean? There are things that they can do to help. They can't completely fix the game but they can help to keep certain players in the game.

Joanna Robinson (64:11)

You know, I so my dearest hope to. To. To put a pin in the white lotus. I think you're right that it could be anyone who's just intermingling as a part of and cuz Mike White even is like I just didn't want to. I'm here because I didn't want to miss out. I have FOMO and this is like a great party. So while in the past he might have been dictated his decisions might have been like did I you and I'm making it up to you by letting you come to like Sicily or were we pals maybe now it's just we were a part of this magical experience together. So for winner, my dearest hope is that it is Christian because as we've talked about before I think he is like one of the all time clearly played the best game his season and should have won and didn't injustices in the history of Survivor and I would like to see that rectified. I was thrilled as a result of that to see him so centered in the premiere both in terms of this wonderful alliance with Devins and Emily which is like the brain alliance is very exciting. Exciting to me. The genius of figuring out despite their restrictions on the kinds of lenses that you can have to avoid exactly this possibility, starting the fire with glasses. I'm just like this guy is just riveting to me to watch for that reason.

Mallory Rubin (65:18)

Secret kid.

Joanna Robinson (65:18)

The secret kid. We got the tugging on the heartstrings for that same reason. I obviously am very concerned as you noted rightly I think last week that everybody recognizes what a genius he is and what a a brilliant tactician and strategic mastermind he is. And so will he be allowed to linger for long? I don't know. Riley on the fir if you're not listening to the pod has spoken, you're not watching the pod has spoken. Get with it right now. They're doing double episodes every week. A traditional breakdown Wednesday night waiting for you in your feed and then exit interviews with eliminated players. Riley, they do predictions every episode for like where they are in the given season, who they think is going to win. Riley kind of compelled me with his Genevieve case which I think would have been a strong pick regardless. And Genevieve is the kind of new era player who I think has a chance to really, really go far. I think that the Genevieve Aubrey scene was so conspicuous and strange that it makes me, it almost makes me think one of them wins. It just was such a scene to include her off.

Mallory Rubin (66:27)

There's like a very significant like the two of them battling it out but

Joanna Robinson (66:30)

that could be one of the relationships that drives the season.

Mallory Rubin (66:33)

Yeah, the edit is so important to watch. It's harder in a three hour episode because they have so much more space to sort of like shove various storylines in there and they're trying, they were trying to set up like a three way who will be eliminated tension that was largely manufactured. But that's fine. Yeah, yeah, I, I'm, I'm excited. I'm sad. I haven't done my picks yet for my pool. I guess I have until today. I think put them in.

Joanna Robinson (66:58)

So I have no idea who will win. I'm usually pretty bad at predicting that this early in the season and I think I like many people have a much better feel for it deeper into the game. I don't want to. If anyone is like, I didn't expect you guys to talk about Survivor on this pod. I don't want to hear spoilers I haven't watched. I won't say what happened in the first episode yet. This is a safe space. However, I will say in a coded way, and if you don't even want to hear this kind of coded thing, just hit fast forward two times. I think Camila, I was devastated by what happened. Happened at the end of the premiere. I won't say what it was to preserve people on the spoiler, but I was devastated because that's. That's. I just love that player. I think Camilla is well positioned as a result of that to go far.

Mallory Rubin (67:38)

Interesting.

Joanna Robinson (67:38)

I'll just say that.

Mallory Rubin (67:39)

Interesting. Yeah. Well. And meanwhile, I think that hurts Genevieve's game.

Joanna Robinson (67:43)

It does. It does. And I think if Genevieve can recover, that's part of why, weirdly, I like why Riley really compelled me, because I'm like that. Alliance immediately fell to tatters. But that's the kind of thing where if you can make it through that, you become a number, you can move with freedom and you have such a strong story at the end. But I. I mean, who knows? There are so many players. 24 players is batshit.

Mallory Rubin (68:06)

I know. It's a lot. It's a lot to track that math. Anyway, Survivor 50. We might talk about it more on this podcast.

Joanna Robinson (68:14)

Maybe not.

Mallory Rubin (68:15)

We'll see. Okay, let's zag and go to Jane Austin land.

Joanna Robinson (68:20)

Okay.

Mallory Rubin (68:20)

So our listener Jazz wrote in about the upcoming Pride and Prejudice.

Joanna Robinson (68:25)

Yes.

Mallory Rubin (68:25)

Hitting Netflix this year, asking, do y' all have feelings about Jack Louden playing Mr. Darcy? Any takes there? Any thoughts that a general dislike of a blonde Mr. Darcy I've been seeing on Twitter, which is sad. Leave my boy alone. Emma Corrin is Lizzie ain't my fave, but I ain't mad neither. So, Pride, upcoming Pride and Prejudice adaptation, what are your thoughts and feelings on it?

Joanna Robinson (68:49)

I can't wait. I. I am a Jane Austen obsessive. I took a Jane Austen course in college. Like, I love Jane Austen. I would say I'm pretty rusty. It's been, you know, quite a while since I've revisited the source text. Though I did just receive a beautiful new box set from my lovely husband. So I'll dive back in and refresh myself. But I'm like, I'm one of these Jane Austen fans, where you could give me 500 Pride and Prejudice adaptations and you, the world, have. Have. Right. Actual adaptations. Also things like Bridget Jones's Diary, which is of course a modern adaptation. Your favorite.

Mallory Rubin (69:22)

Pride and Prejudice and Zombies.

Joanna Robinson (69:23)

Pride of Prejudice and Zombies, exactly. And I'll never tire of it. I'll never tire of getting Pride and Prejudice adaptations or Austin adaptations of any sort. So I'm interested to see, you know, this Netflix version of it in terms of the. I mean, the cast is just in general, I think, great. Like Olivia Colman is here. What. What is to complain about? Daryl McCormick as. As Bingley is quite fun. I like him a lot. I just. As a matter of kind of principle, I don't really understand dunking on and shredding a casting because of somebody's hair color. That seems like not reasonable to me. However, I will take it beyond that and say, just watch a second of anything Jack Loudoun has ever done and you'll feel better. River Cartwright on Slow Horses, a show we both love, is one of my favorite TV characters or performances in recent memory. And I think that he, Jack Louden as River has exactly what Darcy needs. There's that kind of like skeptical, detached, haughty quality, but then such warmth when a relationship develops or you gain access to it. So I think he'll be great. I'm excited. Can't wait.

Mallory Rubin (70:26)

I'm really into Jack Louden as Mr. Darcy. Emma Corin has never done something uninteresting, ever. Emma Corrin, the closest comp I can can come up with for this is her Lady Chatterley's Lover that she did, which was actually she was very good in. So like, I. I'm intrigued by this. I, however, am not a. I'm not a huge Joe Wright. Kira Knightley Matthew McFadden Pride and Prejudice fan I prefer the miniseries just because there's way more room for. It's not. It's not just like the Colin Firth of it all. It's just like there's just so much more room for the eccentric side characters which I think is what makes Jane Austen so special. And so when you get to a film adaptation, there are exceptions. I think the Karen Hines persuasion or the Ang Lee sense of sensibility. There are movie versions that have figured this out, but I think the Joe Wright Pride and Prejudice has a lot going for it, but ultimately boils it too focuses it too much on Lizzie and Darcy. When I think like the whole family dynamic and I think, I do think that Mrs. Bennet is one of the all time great Jane Austen creations. So Olivia Colman let her cook as Mrs. Bennet. It's extremely exciting. So I'm open to see what happens here, but I do think in general you're really hard pressed to capture the magic of a Jane Austen novel inside of a feature length presentation. So we'll see what happens there.

Joanna Robinson (72:06)

2026 Netflix adaptation be able to topple the iconic BBC 95 miniseries featuring Colin Firth in a sodden white shirt. I doubt it. But that's okay. Maybe it'll be great. Maybe it'll be great.

Mallory Rubin (72:21)

You know, maybe there will be like a, you know, because like Rosamund pike is so good as Jane in the Joe Wright version. That's one of my favorite. Like that Bingley is so good. Simon Wood I think is the actor's name. So, you know, like there's always gonna be, you know, and, and Tom Hollander's Mr. As Mr. Collins, like, you know, incredible stuff. So like there's always gonna be some things that like really, really land in an adaptation to enjoy. So unless it's the Dakota Johnson persuasion, which was one of the like worst crimes against Jane Austen fandom that I've ever seen.

Joanna Robinson (72:57)

That's a great book.

Mallory Rubin (72:58)

My favorite. My favorite Jane Austen book. And they just absolutely the bed on that. So anyway, okay, let's. Oh, on the Jennifer Ely friend. I will just take us over to. We got a lot of emails about the vampire list at the upcoming interview of the vampire television show. We don't need to linger too long here because I just want to announce officially. I think we've said it a couple times, but not everyone listens to every podcast. So in case you're listening to this podcast, we will be covering the vampireless stat every episode. Is it airing at the same time as House of the Dragon?

Joanna Robinson (73:33)

Yep.

Mallory Rubin (73:33)

Is that going to stop me from doing super long episodes about the vampire le. Nope. That just means it's.

Joanna Robinson (73:40)

It's peak, peak house of our season. Peak, Jose.

Mallory Rubin (73:43)

We get kind of like, I get kind of buoy like when we did Rings of Power and House of the Dragon same time. That was just. You're just sort of like running on adrenaline. It's like very, very good. I will say so in terms of like the promo that's come out for the vampire leat Season 3 of interview with the Vampire essentially they've released a couple teaser trailers. IGN Fan Fest had like a whole scene which was incredible about Leat finding out about the book and going to a Montreal bookstore and like losing his as he's listening to these booksellers, a mangle French in their Quebecois accent and B, talk about how much they Love Armand is just like one of the best things I've ever seen. Everything has been so exciting. But as I texted you, and I think I've already mentioned on the pod, as part of the promo, they released Long Face a Vampire Lestat single on Spotify under the artist name like the Vampire Lestat. So they've like given him like his own artist page. That track has 483,000 plays. I believe 480,000 of them are me. So we're just, we're out here living. We're out here living.

Joanna Robinson (74:55)

I was going to ask you like if you just knew on the date of March 3, 2026 what was going to top your Spotify wrapped. Like, is it done?

Mallory Rubin (75:05)

That's literally what you texted me. You were like, how comforting to already have your Spotify wrapped. Number one tech track out there.

Joanna Robinson (75:13)

I guess the, the, the variable here, the complicating aspect of that is they have indicated they will be releasing. They're just gonna. It's a slow drip of tracks until the. Yes until the show comes out. So who knows? I mean that just guarantees entire top five will probably all be songs.

Mallory Rubin (75:33)

I believe the Vampire Lestat will be

Joanna Robinson (75:36)

your artist of the year. The Vampire Lestat. That's gonna be pretty good.

Mallory Rubin (75:39)

I can't wait. I can't wait for my rapt video that I would get from Sam Reed at the end of the year.

Joanna Robinson (75:44)

Great stuff.

Mallory Rubin (75:45)

I'm piano and your forte. You're allegro. I'm on Dante. Like the lyrics for the song are so exciting. The. And then. And then sort of like the pro. I mean it's based on the book the Vampire Lestat. But what seems to be clear about how they're going to do like flashbacks and, and all of this. Jennifer Ely, who is Lizzie Bennet in that 95 Pride and Prejudice plays Gabriella in this. I'm very excited about that. Marius is here, Magnus is here, Nikki is here. Like all these characters are here. But we're seeing in the trailers, you see them sort of like pop up in the modern. You see Louis from season one of the Interview with Vampire. So popping up in the modern day audience inside of these concerts, the vampire Lestat is going on tour. So this is like a trauma drug induced fueled inspired by Daniel Malloy interviews, perhaps like journey for Lestat to go through his origin story. So this idea of like people from the past cropping up in the future as like in the present as like a hallucination is just like incredibly exciting. It's very much like the best parts of David and Harrenhal. When I told you, like, I like it when a story is, like, oozing in and out of, like, reality and memory and dream and stuff like that. And you don't really. And like, the camera tricks you can play in order to make that happen. Like, I'm really excited for what we get from that. So that inside of a velvet gold mine esque, like, rock musical. Every single photo they've released of Sam Reed, like, writhing around on the ground in, like, leather pants, shirtless, is just like a gift.

Joanna Robinson (77:21)

All of the Daniel Hart quotes about Bowie as an influence, just magical stuff. What a time to be. And us. I can't wait to. I'm so excited. I, I, we recently had the privilege on our, our, you know, our gift swap where you treated me to season two of Interview with a Vampire and I took you into an active vampire,

Mallory Rubin (77:40)

made me do my job.

Joanna Robinson (77:41)

Volcano for ash. I just thought that that was an incredible season of television. So I'm really looking forward to this. Can't wait.

Mallory Rubin (77:51)

Yeah. I mean, there's this quote that Raleigh Jones, the showrunner, gave to, I think Nerdist or He said Armand will show up in, quote, full Gremlin Lynn fashion. So we're gonna get Armand. We're gonna get. We haven't seen Akasha yet. We, They've cast her. Sheila Tim is playing her, but we got, we haven't gotten the Queen of the Damned in the trailers yet. So there's just like, a lot to come. Summer's gonna be extraordinary for us. I'm extremely excited. So here we go. Okay, this next question comes from Emily. It's about Project Hail Mary. The premise of the question. Spoilers for anyone who hasn't seen the trailers, they're sort of like putting the premise of the book out there in all of the trailers. So if you've seen any promo material, like, you know what the premise of the of the story story is, which is not necessarily the case if you just read the book cold. So that's sort of at the core of this question. So if you don't want to know, maybe skip ahead. But Emily wrote here in both Doctor who and Project Hail Mary were on a very enclosed spaceship for a very long time with another person. Would you rather be roommates with the Doctor or Rocky? Both have their pros. Smart, funny problem solvers. Both have their cons. The Doctor can't drive most of the time and Rocky can't breathe the same air. So I'm curious what you guys would go for. Personally Give me Rocky. Anyway, day of the week seems like a great hang once we get past the language barrier. So people who don't know Rocky is this rock based life form that you know, our guy Ryan Gosling, Rylan Grace meets in space. So would you rather hang out with Rocky or. And I say you get to pick which doctor of your choosing. I think it's really funny that we got this question based on something we have already taped for project Hail Mary that has not seen the Lighted Day yet. But what would you pick? Mallory.

Joanna Robinson (79:27)

Okay, so if I got to pick my doctor, but then do I get to control like what how long I'm with that doctor because of regeneration at any point and then who knows, you know, I don't worry.

Mallory Rubin (79:37)

He'll tire of you or kill you before he has a chance to regenerate.

Joanna Robinson (79:42)

I get a few velvet blazer days with 12, and then I'm. To me, with love and respect to the Doctor. This is the easiest question that we've ever gotten to answer. Answer again. We've encouraged you to skip to the just the next chapter title if you don't in the. In the. In the chapter list. If you don't want to hear this at all. But I'll try to keep it non spoilery. Rocky is one of my favorite characters in fiction. And I think Rocky is an icon. And I think that sharing space and a space like space space, but also space like a space with rock, then sharing a life with Rocky would be the honor and privilege of my existence. Rocky very cat coded to me. So I think it would just be wonderful, you know, the idea of being able to like to Emily's point in the question, the problem solving nature, the like, I can fix this. I can build something. I can figure it out. Very goal oriented, mission oriented. But the charm, the humor, the charm, the genuine desire to forge a connection. It's all I want of life. So if you know we can't breathe the same air, that's fine. I think we're breathing something more important and that's a shared experience. It's Rocky for me. How about you? I would

Mallory Rubin (80:57)

shove Rocky out the airlock if it meant that I could adventure with a 10th doctor.

Joanna Robinson (81:03)

How dare you. How dare you.

Mallory Rubin (81:08)

I love Rocky. But you couldn't just the 10th doctor

Joanna Robinson (81:11)

check tunnel

Mallory Rubin (81:14)

just sort of cartwheeling all of his little legs.

Joanna Robinson (81:22)

The tunnel's right there. God damn it. Oh man, this rolls. Bubble down the tunnel.

Mallory Rubin (81:30)

No, out the airlock. Okay, we got a lot of people emailing about traitors. I know. This isn't a show that you've watched, so I don't want to spend too much time on it.

Joanna Robinson (81:38)

But, like, tell me, tell me why. Tell me what I'm missing. Because, I mean, I'm concerned. Consuming this exclusively through Instagram.

Mallory Rubin (81:44)

Rob Quinn ads.

Joanna Robinson (81:46)

Rob. Yeah, Quinn ads. Yes. I have been consuming those. Rob made it into my algorithm, I think in part because I follow some other people who are on Traders. And so then some of the Traders content made its way. It's my algorithm. And then I served more traders content, but, like, familiar with.

Mallory Rubin (81:59)

Rob, you're a big Michael. Rob, you're a big Michael Rapaport guy. I know.

Joanna Robinson (82:03)

I. I do follow Colton. Just. There's like a kind of a legacy follow from a thousand years ago from when Colton was the Bachelor. Very memorable season of the Bachelor. I can't remember who else from the season of Traders I. I follow, but I don't. I don't watch a lot of island, so I didn't know Rob before this, but I have not seen, as I've told you, other than on Instagram, reels, a second of Traders. I've never watched this show. And I watch reality tv. I watch, you know, some game competition thing. Some. Not as much as I used to, but I do feel that I would like this. I have not consumed a second of it. Tell me what I'm missing. And also, you would love Rob because,

Mallory Rubin (82:35)

like, the deal is so spoilers for the traitors.

Joanna Robinson (82:37)

Yeah.

Mallory Rubin (82:38)

Rob Rauch, who is like, a guy who likes snakes but was also in Love island and Alabama.

Joanna Robinson (82:46)

Right. I love overalls. Yeah.

Mallory Rubin (82:48)

He won pretty handily. And I will say you would love this because you would love how smart and good and ruthless Rob was in this game. I think it would really appeal to something inside of you in terms of, like, the best man should win. And like, he. I mean, without question, he outsmarted everyone. Like, he's. He's shown playing chess several times this season. Like, he's a big chess guy. And so, like, it's just so clear that he played this season like a game of chess, and he just positioned all the pieces where he wanted them to be. He used his pretty privilege. He screwed over his fellow Traders. Like, he did all this stuff and he. And he won. The way he won, at the end of the day is there is this woman named Maura who is also a Love island alum and a very beautiful Irish woman who came into the game knowing nothing about it, like, signed up for the game without knowing what the rules were and Basically sort of, like, attached herself to Rob. Or he said, like, come stand by me. And then she was just like his faithful lieutenant without knowing that he was lying to her the whole time.

Joanna Robinson (83:52)

So she wasn't a traitor. She was a faithful.

Mallory Rubin (83:55)

She was a faithful. He made her, like, basically his shield. He made a bunch of, like, Colton was one of his shields. Like, he made, like, a bunch of people his sort of, like, cover as he went through this game. Natalie from Survivor like, a bunch of people. And, like, it was only at the very end that people started cottoning onto him, but it was, like, too late. He had set too many pieces in place. Like, the last two episodes, people kind of knew he was a traitor. Could not convince Maura otherwise despite compelling evidence. And so she. The finale was really quite boring because she just voted with Rob three votes. It was like. It's like, the Most predictable vote. 3 votes in a row. It all hinged on Wilmore Flip. She was never going to flip. Flip on him.

Joanna Robinson (84:31)

Okay.

Mallory Rubin (84:32)

And then the last thing was, like, him revealing to her that he was a traitor. Was it incredible television?

Joanna Robinson (84:38)

Yes.

Mallory Rubin (84:38)

Was it one of the most painful things I've ever watched? Yes. Because she's just sort of like, we won. And he was like, I'm a traitor. And she's like.

Joanna Robinson (84:45)

And that he gets. He gets to keep everything.

Mallory Rubin (84:48)

He gets all the money. She gets nothing. Yeah.

Joanna Robinson (84:50)

Okay. Geez.

Mallory Rubin (84:52)

It's hard because Mora, like, Maura turned on every, like, woman in the game, turned on every, like, gay person in the game to just, like, stick by this Alabama boy who was screwing her over the whole time. It was really hard for. To watch. She was not being a girl's girl, but I try really hard to be a girl's girl, so I'm trying to be on Maura's side. Even though Maura was not on the side of. I feel really bad for her. She called herself stupid so many times, and I felt, like, so crushed for her. She. She's like, you've embarrassed me. You made a fool of me. Like, all this other stuff like that. He's like, I'm sorry, it's the game. And he's right. I mean, like, he's right. He played a. A really. He played a perfect game. Like, but it's just, like, really hard to watch. And it was just like, I was watching some creator that I follow on Instagram who does a great job of, like, watching shows and commenting while she watches them, and she was like. She's like, I want to root for the girls and the gays. But the straight guy is playing such a better game and it's like, so true. Like, so, Maura, you betrayed all the people that I wanted you to align with, but you pay the price. And I feel really bad for you that that happened to you. Everyone on the Internet is calling her dumb and I feel really bad about that too. And I just, like, it's just. It's just really tough. And then they had a reunion afterwards and that was like, really hard for me to watch. So Rob won. He deserved to win. I feel bad about it that he won. But, like, you have to admire that. The game that he played. Does that make sense?

Joanna Robinson (86:19)

Yeah, sounds great.

Mallory Rubin (86:20)

I mean, how I've laid that out.

Joanna Robinson (86:22)

This sounds wonderful. This sounds great. I'm intrigued.

Mallory Rubin (86:25)

It's really good. It's really. Traders is really good. I only watch Survivor and Traders essentially are like the only reality that I watch. And like I will say, especially when I was in LA the last couple months, everywhere I went, I could talk to people about the Traders. Like, everyone was watching it, everyone was talking about it. And, like, it reminded me of like watching you go through the world, being able to talk about sports when I could just talk to anyone about the Traders.

Joanna Robinson (86:47)

Yeah.

Mallory Rubin (86:48)

And I just felt like I had an easy way into small talk with anyone. I will value it forever for that. But like, Alan, Katie coming.

Joanna Robinson (86:56)

Yeah.

Mallory Rubin (86:56)

Is just incredible. It's edited preposterously in the most sort of like eye rolling over the top. They're creating like dun, dun, dun cliffhangers when there isn't really a cliffhanger. Like all of that is true, but like the drama of the present, the, the, the premise. And then we got a bunch of people asking if I'd see the UK Traders. I did watch this most recent season, which was like a celebrity UK Traders, which was very good. Original one.

Joanna Robinson (87:22)

Are they similar? Are they like, are they notable?

Mallory Rubin (87:25)

It's no, it's like the same game. It's just with better accents. Usually UK Traders is normal people and I think they are going to do a normal people American. That's more.

Joanna Robinson (87:37)

That is more interesting to me, I think without like bringing the associations that we have with these other either famous people or other like reality stars. Though I was interested to learn a thing. I did not know. Know that. So Kristen from Top Chef was on the season of Traders. How did she do? She's one of the great. My great Top Chef loves.

Mallory Rubin (87:54)

Everyone was constantly talking about. I mean, she looked amazing the whole time.

Joanna Robinson (87:58)

One of them.

Mallory Rubin (87:58)

Everyone was talking.

Joanna Robinson (87:59)

Beautiful.

Mallory Rubin (88:00)

Constantly Talking about how smart she was.

Joanna Robinson (88:04)

Yeah.

Mallory Rubin (88:05)

But she was so often wrong.

Joanna Robinson (88:09)

And, like, when she.

Mallory Rubin (88:10)

Which a lot of them are. But there was this one moment where one of the traitors got. Rob got one of his. Both of his fellow traitors out, but he got one of his fellow traitors out and in on her way out. That traitor. You can't out another traitor, but you can sort of, like, vote for them if you want to and sort of try to lead people to vote for them to get them out. But he got this housewife Candace out, and Candace, on her way out, tried to, like, blow up his game. So in the last two roundtables where they vote to vote someone out, she voted for Rob to twice. And Maura in her Irish accent kept calling it a trollway vote. It's a trollway vote. Why did she do it? It's a trolley vote. But, like. But like, she was trying to, like, signal like, he's the other traitor. Like, she couldn't say it outright, but that was her attempt. And Kristen, after the second time, Kristen's like, Candace trying to pin this on Rob. That sweet, sweet man. How ridiculous. And all of my respect for Kristen just, like, went out the window.

Joanna Robinson (89:08)

She was just.

Mallory Rubin (89:09)

Just, like, rolling her eyes at Candace, and I was like, Candace was trying to tell you guys something on her way out the door. But okay, so anyway, it's easy to sit at home, obviously, and, like, judge that people are dumb and wrong and they're all, like, paranoid and, like, also quite. You know, there's, like, a ton of housewives in there. I don't know any of the housewives. I don't know. I don't know anyone except the Survivor players and then, like, the RuPaul Drag Race players. And that's, like, the only people from

Joanna Robinson (89:33)

the challenge sometimes, right? I would know some of them.

Mallory Rubin (89:36)

Yeah, but. Yeah, yeah, you would know the challenge people. But, like, Michael Rappaport was randomly there, but, like, I don't know any of the housewives or Big Brother people, or

Joanna Robinson (89:45)

I would not know Big Brother housewives either. Kristen's Top Chef win back in the day. Spoiler for a thousand years ago. It's one of the great Top Chef performances of all time. Just her food. Unbelievable. Now, she's, of course, the host, right? Yeah. Amazing stuff.

Mallory Rubin (89:57)

She's absolutely beautiful to look at, but her whole reputation of being smart. I was like, are we sure? Or she just got a really bad edit. I don't know.

Joanna Robinson (90:05)

This is one of the things about Survivor in the new era, to that last point, That I do find fascinating. I actually think I've said this before. The players are too self aware now of like just what it means to be on Survivor. They all think they're scholars because they've watched their entire lives. They're thinking about how they're going to be edited. Many of them are like professional podcasters. They're, they're very consciously aware of their image, et cetera. But and so I'm kind of my dream is like after 50 a reset where it's like cast Survivor like a jury, like people who've never seen it before. Like let's really start with a clean slate. I think that would be really interesting. However, one thing I do you find genuinely compelling about the hyper aware I'm a lifelong Survivor super fan era of Survivor. Is this how they talk about the debilitating terror of looking like an idiot on TV in real time as they're feeling that anxiety, Am I being duped? Am I being played?

Mallory Rubin (91:00)

There's also this thing that happens on Traitors that is different from what happens on Survivor because like there is this sort of like safety in numbers voting that happens as a Survivor of sort of like well if everyone's going for this person person I'll just stick with the group at certain points in the game. Right. That's what like every round table elimination is like at on the Traders where it becomes this like mob mentality thing that is like interesting. People just like vote where the mob is going and who is running where the mob is going. And that's like hard to track at any given time but there's something like quite medieval about it that is just like very interesting to watch. I was watching the stand up comedian talk about UK traders and how he was was like at one point someone revealed that they were a doctor and then everyone voted them out as if to be like the, the magic man knows too much. Get him out. You know what I mean? Like this just idea of like and, and to your point like the, they call them the gamers. So anyone who's like on Survivor the Challenge or Big Brother, like those are the gamers and it's like they have big targets on their back. The housewives vote in a pack together. You know, like all of these like preconceived notions that people bring to the table. But, but like the gamers are like you know, but like siree Parvati, Sandra, Tony, Boston Rob, like all these Survivor legends have all played on the, the traitors. So I think that you would as

Joanna Robinson (92:14)

intrigued as I am By Rob. If I. If I were to start, maybe I would just start at the beginning because I. I can't help myself. But if I were to go back and watch one season, I would watch Boston Rob season because he's, as you know, an all timer for me.

Mallory Rubin (92:25)

And that's where Gabby. Gabby on last season, incredible Zac Efron brother Dylan Efron emerged as a tremendous star in that season. And then, yeah, like, Boston Rob, Bob the Drag Queen, and Boston Rob and Bob the Drag Queen are now hosting the Traitors podcast. So to your point, how can I spin this into po? You know, Dylan Efron, like, Rob Rouse definitely, like, he was already doing, like, doordash ads during the season, but, like, he's definitely gonna try to spin this into as much as he can, which is like, no wonder he's in my office. What else can you do? Yeah. Did I talk about Traders longer than we're about to talk about Wonder Man? Perhaps, but here we are. Okay, so Dan wrote. We had a couple people writing in, asking for our thoughts on Wonder Man. A show that we both loved, Adored, was dropped in a binge drop.

Joanna Robinson (93:11)

Yes.

Mallory Rubin (93:12)

At a time when some personal stuff was going on with us. I was in LA and stuff was going on with Mallory, and then also Night of the Seven Kingdoms was in full swing. So all these factors combined and we had some makeup episodes that we had to do in a timely fashion. All of this combined to us not covering Wonder man, which was a real tragedy because we loved this show, and if it hadn't been dropped in a binge, like, I assure you, we would have caught up with it. And it breaks my heart to think of, like, there are so many shows that we've, like, covered week to week that felt like a real slog. And this is a show we loved and didn't cover. So I feel really, like, bummed by the scheduling gods that that's how it happened. But this is an extraordinarily delightful one of my. Like, I love Agatha because I love Agatha, but, like, like, because of all of its witch stuff. Goness. But I think in an objective sense, this was the best thing Marvel has done in, like, years, just in terms of, like, how light on its feet it was, how funny but emotionally resonant it was. The performance, Yaya in the lead was, like, incredible, but Ben Kingsley was, like, phenomenal. And then you've got Joe Pantoliano showing up, like, a great skewering of Hollywood inside of this superhero storytelling. And I just. I had just such a good time with it. And I'm so sorry that it feels like it got not just lost to us, but like, kind of lost in general in this era of like, dampened enthusiasm for Marvel. What do you want to say about Wonder Man?

Joanna Robinson (94:54)

I had to co sign all of that. I mean, I thought this was an absolute gem of a show. I watched this in wonder, sitting all in a row every episode in a row. Which, you know, I love a binge. I love to sit there and watch multiple episodes of TV in a row. But I was just very compelled by it. I mean, it's zippy, it's quick moving. Most of the episodes end with like a compelling propulsion point into the next and also just a sensational needle drop. The music on this season was fucking dynamite. But yeah, I just thought this was such a. To your point about where. Where we are more broadly in the MCU and some of the. Not some of the. For many, unrelenting fatigue and I think for other fans there have been some exciting moments or encouraging moments more recently, but this was just such a breath of fresh air and just so vibrant and charming. And I always love Yaya. I think he's just like an incredible, incredibly charismatic and compelling performer. And so I'm not surprised that his Simon was a delight to spend time with, but I thought he was just sensational. The ability, if anyone hasn't listened to. Maybe two episodes ago on the Watch, Andy interviewed Andrew Guest, one of the creative minds behind Wonder man. And very amusing bit through line throughout there and entire interview of insisting on referring to him as Sir Ben Kingsley the entire time, which I got such a kick out of, but also as appropriate. And they talked.

Mallory Rubin (96:28)

That's great because when I, when I did the Sneakers rewatchables, Bill implied that we should remove Ben Kingsley's knighthood from him. So.

Joanna Robinson (96:36)

An outrage and a scandal. An outrage and a scandal.

Mallory Rubin (96:40)

Astonishing.

Joanna Robinson (96:41)

But, you know, but we have, as many Marvel fans have spent many hours of our lives talking about Iron Man 3 in the original introduction of, of Trevor Big Trev into our lives. I think to bring him back in Shang Chi in what I thought was such a delightful and shocking way that I like, had no reason to anticipate or expect in that way, and now continue to find a way to incorporate Sir Ben Kingsley into the MCU in a way that makes complete sense and is completely plausible. This was such a smart use of Trevor and I, I thought, go ahead. Yeah, sorry.

Mallory Rubin (97:20)

One scene with the casting directors where they're like, does he look familiar? I think he was a Terrorist. It was just like, it's really good.

Joanna Robinson (97:29)

That was all great. And I just thought, like, there are a lot of relationships in the MCU that we come to care deeply about over time. But very quickly, I found myself very invested in Trevor and Simon as a duo, very genuinely invested. And I think that the, like, meta aspects of the. To your skewering of Hollywood point, like, that's super interesting and I thought was well executed. You know, it is a. It's a choice. It's a decision at a moment when people are down on the MCU and people are down on the glut of. And dominance in terms of just its sheer presence. But, you know, kind of like diminished quality of superhero comic book storytelling. It's a choice to say, we're going to make this like a meta story story when we, the mcu, a meta story inside of the MCU when we, the mcu, are the cause of much of that. Right. You gotta nail it if you do that. It's just a. Kind of a disaster if you try to do that and you misfire. So I don't, you know, I tend to really enjoy the meta pursuits. Like something like the studio is obviously very fun. I thought something like the franchise really missed the mark. It was a letdown. But this really worked in that respect. And I think also the way that it feels like very, very, very contained and accessible. And, you know, Simon Williams is an interesting comic book character with a ton of lore. You don't need any of that to come into this. You don't really need. Despite what we were just saying about, you know, Iron Man 3 and Shang Chi, you don't need MCU priors, really. Like, you can come and call, explain

Mallory Rubin (99:04)

it like, really quickly, sort of like what the history is for the character. And like, Trevor is basically the only character that you need any kind of. Of like, information on.

Joanna Robinson (99:14)

And.

Mallory Rubin (99:14)

And like, I. I think we talked about this a lot with, like, I don't know, Ahsoka or something like that. Like, the. The threading the line between, like, rewarding someone who's done all the homework and making it inviting for someone who hasn't done the homework. And like, Marvel's been really struggling under that for, like, the last several years. And I just thought they really nailed it with this one where it's just sort of like, it's quite welcoming for people who haven't watched Iron Man 3 or Sean, but also there's stuff there for people who have to enjoy.

Joanna Robinson (99:45)

Yeah, if you're like a huge department of damage Control head. And you've been tracking the deployment of this agency across properties or something like, you know, that's fun, but you don't need any of that. So, yeah, it was just, it was wonderful.

Mallory Rubin (99:57)

Just be a succession fan and enjoy that area that is here. That's all you need.

Joanna Robinson (100:00)

You know, always, always welcome. Yeah, you call that Joey Pants. But that was one of the great pleasures of. Of my recent television viewing life. That was just amazing.

Mallory Rubin (100:10)

That whole sequence is like so good. So, so funny. Simon talking about, like, Simon talking with his agent about like code switching inside of that experience. Them talking about like prosciutto and like all of that.

Joanna Robinson (100:23)

It was very.

Mallory Rubin (100:23)

The studio. It was really, really good. I will say the one thing that they did. So episode four, halfway through the season, you get this episode, Doorman, which is just. It felt a little bit like they were chasing Watchmen. And like that episode of Watchmen where you're sort of like taken back in time in a way that I'm just sort of like, I. I don't think you needed to do this or needed to do it right then. It felt like a slight derailment of. And especially it comes after episode three. But Koima, which is like very doing a lot of work in that, like Trevor, Simon, Bond that you talked about, the way that that episode ends is just like you're deep in your feelings about their connection and the position that Trevor finds himself in. So that sort of slight, you know, to watch it all on a binge is like, I think maybe it doesn't stick out as much as if you're watching it a little bit more spread out. But I would say that would be like my one critique of just sort of the rhythm of the season would be that episode, which I liked. But like, you know what I mean?

Joanna Robinson (101:26)

Though, of course, we'll never complain about an opportunity to spend time with you, Josh Gad.

Mallory Rubin (101:31)

I never once in my life, never

Joanna Robinson (101:32)

once would do that. Not now, not ever. The thing that that stretch of the season does, of course, effectively reinforce for us and cement for us is this, like, context of why Simon's power set. And of course there's personal history for him in this respect, but in terms of his desire to be an actor and to work in Hollywood in the industry. So that was that. That was all kind of interesting. But yeah, I agree, it's. There was something about the. The slowing of the mom, the primary narrative at that point in the season that I think was not the high point. But overall, in terms of what it reinforced about the fear of people discovering this thing about him that was useful. It's just a great season of TV overall, and I really hope that we get to be back with these characters soon.

Mallory Rubin (102:23)

I'm worried, but it would be great. I mean, there are certain Marvel misfires where I'm like, we can just pretend that never happened. And I just hope that that doesn't happen here. But we'll see. All right, last but not least, on this mailbag, we get a. Oh, actually two things really quickly I forgot to mention on the Mora on Traders beat. I will just say, for some reason I think she has thinner hair than she wants to have. I don't know what the full answer is there, but she wore wigs in almost every single scene. And I got a lot of emails about that from the wig watchers out there. The junior wig watchers out there were just sort of like, what's going on with Morris hair? And I agree, like, there's certain she's wearing like a long, thick wig with like her real hair was sort of like poking at the. I mean, like, she was so beautiful. Some of the wig deployments were like, quite confusing. But anyway, that's that. And then also on the book front, we got a lot of questions from people asking if we're going to do like a formal house of our book club or anything like that. And I will just say we've got some plans in the works for some like, social media stuff where you might see more book centric content from us. So like we are planning to sort of feed this. Like, people are like, hey, tell me what to read next. Like I am, I am planning, planning to do some more of that stuff this year, coming up soon. But no formal plans. But I just want to, like, I just want to tease it. Okay, last question from Lauren, which is a personal question for us. Joanna's moving to la. I'm back at the bay right now, but I will be moving to la currently looking for housing. Not as easy as one would hope. Joanna's moving to la. What makes you most excited about living in the same city? Any fun things you're looking forward to sharing in each other's presence? That might feel easier now. Molly Rubin.

Joanna Robinson (104:06)

Oh my God.

Mallory Rubin (104:07)

Why are you most excited that I'm moving to la?

Joanna Robinson (104:10)

Jesus, where to even begin? I mean, obviously the most basic thing is just being able to make the podcast together in person, record together in person. It's always so wonderful when we get to look and gaze into each other's eyes with no screen between us. You know, just the sometimes too warm temperature and very intense lights between us, but no screen.

Mallory Rubin (104:30)

But I get to reach out and hold your hand.

Joanna Robinson (104:32)

The ability to hold a hand. If I drop my chapstick on a bathroom floor, you're like, I got you.

Mallory Rubin (104:36)

No worries.

Joanna Robinson (104:38)

You just use some social media.

Mallory Rubin (104:41)

Two years ago reference, very nice.

Joanna Robinson (104:43)

Just always top of mind for me as a really traumatic experience that you pulled me out of. You know, just getting to gaze into each other's eyes as we make, we make a pod and you know, embark on our social media pursuits together in person. What a treat. Obviously we got to do this last week, week and a half ago. What is time? Can't remember. We're going to get to go to screenings together. We're have going to actually get to see more of the things that we're going to talk about together in person. We're going to get to hang out with the Midnight boys big pic and see these movies together. That's fucking fun. Love that. We're going to get to go to bookstores together just because we want to. I mean I can't wait, can't wait to just like pop into Skylight together or Chevalier together. We're near that because we're. Our new studio is near Larchmont. So then maybe we'll go over there. Are you a last, last bookstore head? You know, they obviously fabled downtown location. They've opened an additional location in Studio City. That is fascinating. It's just this gorgeous space and it's beautiful. We'll go there, we'll go to all sorts. We'll explore every LA bookstore together I think and then really exciting, we're going to hang out with our friends and each other and we're going to, we're going to drink alcohol together.

Mallory Rubin (105:56)

I, I did go to Chevalier a couple times looking for specific books that they did not have. But my, but a, they did the, the great thing that a bookstore should do which is like they offered a special order for me. Thank you so much. And then B, it was just like such a lovely store. A lovely, lovely shop. It's just like sort of small space but it's like very, very cute. I love Skylight and I have been to the Studio City location of Last Bookshop. So that's very exciting. Um, yes, Martini Mondays is something that you and I had talked about. I, I have started my, like, I, my project that I started this year is the quest to find the perfect dirty martini in Los Angeles. And I like put this on social media and I got A lot of suggestions for people and I've started. I went to like Black Cat with our pal Kim Renfro. I went to the Benjamin with a friend of the podcast, Kristen Noir. And so like, I, I'm searching around. I sent you a photo from the Benjamin of, of the, of the martinis that we got there. It was like triple olives with the side jars, stuff like that. So if folks have suggestions for a dirty martini. But Mallory loves a dirty martini. I love a dirty martini. Or you've never had one. Never had it? Is that what you're saying?

Joanna Robinson (107:14)

Yeah, I have a deep and abiding love for olives and savory beverages and have never in my life, for reasons that kind of elude me, had a martini. Except I took one sip of yours as we watched. Oh yeah, what's it called? Ferris Whale? Ferris Whip? Is that what it's called? Be rapidly disassembled in front of our eyes at Comic Con. And so I'm excited to.

Mallory Rubin (107:42)

We were in a restaurant, we should say. It wasn't just like drinking a dirty martini on the street, watching a Ferris wheel get dismantled. We were in like a steakhouse.

Joanna Robinson (107:52)

Yeah.

Mallory Rubin (107:52)

Mother Wolf also incredible dirty martini. Also. I saw, I believe I saw a bad. I saw Bhad Bhabie there. He was like, said hi to me on my way out. So shout out to him if he's listening. But great pasta there.

Joanna Robinson (108:02)

Delicious.

Mallory Rubin (108:03)

Yeah, incredible pasta, but like one of the, one of the surprise best dirty martinis I've ever had. So. Yeah, so I have a whole list, a whole, like spreadsheet that I'm working on. But if anyone has any suggestions of where I should go for a stealth excellent dirty martini, let me know. And I've been to Musso and Frank. I went there years ago, so I've got that one checked off the list.

Joanna Robinson (108:25)

What are you most forward to about being in Los Angeles? Tell us.

Mallory Rubin (108:28)

I think seeing movies, I think seeing movies together, like getting to go to screenings with you is always really fun. Seeing the like absolute astonishing orders that you put in at the concession stand and just sort of like marveling at your whole vibe at the movie theater and, and not just the opportunity to see new movies together, but like, you know, I, I got the opportunity in the, you know, couple months that I was there this year to like go to a bunch of rep screenings and that was really, really fun stuff for me. So. And I think I mentioned this to you, I might have mentioned on the pod, I can't remember. But like, you know, going to Going to random, like going to randomly of an afternoon to see like send help or pillion or whatever else it was that I went to go, go see. And like, or no other choice. And like the theaters were all just full. Like you've mentioned this to me before when we talked about getting tickets for a movie and you're like, you can't get a ticket. And I'm like, that's because you live in la, baby. That's not true around the country. And so like oftentimes here, even in the Bay Area, which is like quite a movie friendly place, like when I go to a movie in a random time or whatever, like the theaters are often empty, which is. Right. Quite dispiriting. But I love seeing a movie in a full theater. And so in la, my experience was no matter when I went, I went, whether it was like a Burbank amc, not that one, but the one across the street or at the Grove or wherever the case may be, like the theaters were full and thriving. So that's just like, that's really exciting for me.

Joanna Robinson (109:57)

I remember telling you this at the time, but one of my favorite recent examples of that in LA was going to see Flow and Not a Seat. Yeah, was empty. Full fucking house for Flow.

Mallory Rubin (110:09)

For Flow, you know, for Flo, the best. Great movie. I'm really excited about that. That's like, there's a lot that I will miss about the Bay Area where I've lived my entire life on and off, but mostly my entire life. But there's a lot to love about Los Angeles and I love you and I love our new studio and I'm really excited to be there to make great content with you. I think that's what Bill said to me after I, after I come down

Joanna Robinson (110:38)

and make great content.

Mallory Rubin (110:38)

An episode sounds right. I filmed an episode with him at the beginning of the year and was just like, so how long are you here? I was like, oh, for a couple months. He's like, let's make some great content together. I was like, okay, Bill, so let's all make some great content together here at the Ringer. What a great, what a great company we work for. That's it. That's all I have to say. Anything else you want to mention?

Joanna Robinson (110:56)

I don't think so.

Mallory Rubin (110:57)

Otherwise, no.

Joanna Robinson (110:58)

I love you a lot. We're, we're all so excited to have you down here. And we'll wear some murder cloaks together. We'll take some pictures for Instagram. It's going to be fantastic.

Mallory Rubin (111:09)

You're working on sword content for Instagram. I'm working on book content for Instagram.

Joanna Robinson (111:15)

I'll also do some book content. Will you do some sword content? That's really the question, you know, great question.

Mallory Rubin (111:22)

Will you? Because you're there in the studio and viables on them. Tell me who we should thank today for their work on this podcast.

Joanna Robinson (111:28)

Yes, as always, Carlos Chiraboga and Arjuna Ramka Powell, who are here with us and are killing it once again. CT is here to help us. I mean, we had just an incredible time with CT last week, doing like 19 hours of podcasts over a day and a half. He was here with us for every second. He's here again. Who else did I see out there? Ratliff's here, Jack's here, Kevin's here. The whole crew is here. And as always, of course, for social. Thank you to Jomi. What a team effort it has been to get our new studio up and running. And, I mean, I saw Bill walk by. I don't know if he helps with this podcast, but he's here, so thanks, Bill. In his way. In his way.

Mallory Rubin (112:02)

He did all right. So thank you to everyone. We will be back with a not so mysterious but potentially mysterious episode later this week and a lot more fun to come.

Joanna Robinson (112:11)

Come.

Mallory Rubin (112:12)

This is like, so our year, like, project Hail Mary.

Joanna Robinson (112:16)

We're thriving.

Mallory Rubin (112:17)

We're so excited for, you know, Vampire Lestat, House of the Dragon, season three. What season are we on? Rings of Power allegedly is coming at the end of the year. Like, there's just a lot. Dune, the Odyssey, hall of Fame episode, finally, the Odyssey, Doomsday, Spiderman.

Joanna Robinson (112:38)

Wonderful.

Mallory Rubin (112:39)

What more could you ask for? All right, we'll see you soon. Bye.