‘The Martian’ Revisited, With Amanda Dobbins

Summary

‘The Martian’ Revisited, With Amanda Dobbins
House of R | The Ringer | March 17, 2026
With Mallory Rubin, Joanna Robinson & guest Amanda Dobbins

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Episode Overview

In this episode, hosts Joanna Robinson and Mallory Rubin are joined by Amanda Dobbins (of The Big Picture) for a delightfully chaotic, in-depth revisitation of Ridley Scott’s 2015 film ‘The Martian.’ The trio explores why the movie captured such broad popularity, how it holds up in the wake of Andy Weir’s follow-up novel and incoming adaptation ‘Project Hail Mary,’ and what makes Weir’s style uniquely suited for both blockbuster films and geeky deep dives. As always, the conversation is wide-ranging, covering space-movie subgenres, science vs. sentiment, casting quirks, bodily functions in space, and even answering children’s Star Wars questions. The tone is irreverent, nerdy, and welcoming—House of R at its best.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Unique Charm of ‘The Martian’

• Box Office Event & Accessibility ([05:23]-[07:52])
  • Released in 2015, directed by Ridley Scott and starring Matt Damon.
  • Exceptional box office ($630M globally) and Oscar success for an original-ish, non-franchise sci-fi movie.
  • Noted for being a "crossover sci-fi" film: plausible near-future setting, lots of action on Earth, minimal alien/galaxy content.
    • "It's pretty Earth-centric. Like it is set on Mars, but it's about getting back to Earth...not really a question of aliens or other galaxies." — Amanda [09:49]
  • Brought together all demographics—the fabled "four quadrants"—unlike most genre fare.
• Mood of the Moment ([07:55]-[08:52])
  • Released while superhero and franchise blockbusters dominated, so its template—book-to-film, movie star, veteran director—felt classic and refreshing.
  • Tapped into late-Obama-era optimism; now seems almost utopian, given global division.

Why Space Procedurals Work & What Amanda Loves

• Amanda’s top space films: ‘Apollo 13,’ ‘First Man,’ ‘Arrival’ ([12:11]-[13:19])
• The Procedural Structure:
  • “Competence porn” and teamwork are at the heart.
  • "They're basically procedurals. There's a problem to solve...films about competence and teamwork and problem-solving." — Amanda [13:19]
  • She contrasts ‘The Martian’ & ‘Apollo 13’—people driven by homecoming and working the problem, not cosmic awe or despair.

Science, Humor & Accessibility in Andy Weir Adaptations

• Science That’s Digestible & Fun ([17:09]-[18:39])

  • Andy Weir’s novels (and Drew Goddard’s screenplays) excel at making hard science funny, approachable, and character-driven.
  • "His narrators are so much funnier than Michael Crichton's...you're getting fed a lot of math and science, but peppered with self-deprecation." — Joanna [17:09]
  • Goddard’s film adaptation succeeds at balancing explanation, tension, and character engagement.

• Inverse Approaches: ‘The Martian’ vs. ‘Project Hail Mary’ ([21:33]-[22:49])

  • ‘The Martian’: The whole world mobilizes to save one man—a collective procedural.
  • ‘Project Hail Mary’: One man must save the world—a more intimate but higher-stakes inversion.
  • Both stories probe human ingenuity, hope, and the drive for survival—but with different emotional arcs.

Rewatch and Reputation: Does ‘The Martian’ Hold Up?

• Changed Context:

  • ‘The Martian’ may dim slightly in the face of the more emotionally resonant ‘Project Hail Mary’ ([25:56]-[27:30])
  • In 2015, it felt like a triumphant return for both Matt Damon and Ridley Scott after career lulls.
  • Now, it’s warmly remembered but perhaps not a perennial rewatch in most households.

• Runtime & Pacing ([29:19]-[30:03])

  • 141-minute runtime felt lean at release (especially compared to ‘Interstellar’); on rewatch, some “bagginess” and tonal fumbles appear.
  • Amanda: “I remembered Matt Damon being funnier.”

Casting & Ensemble Musings

• The co-hosts discuss whether Damon was the right choice ([63:39]-[66:28]), with Amanda nominating Oscar Isaac as a plausible alternative, but ultimately concede Damon’s strengths.
• Ensemble is perhaps too sprawling:
  • Consensus is Kristen Wiig (as comms director Annie) and Sean Bean (as NASA’s Mitch) are miscast or underused.
  • "Kristen Wiig is very, very funny. But that casting is indicative of why I bump on the humor in this movie a little bit." — Amanda [32:31]
  • Hermes crew members (Sebastian Stan, Kate Mara, etc.) are shortchanged for time.

The Science & Production Side

• Production Design & Visuals ([47:22]-[48:47])
  • Mars’s distinctive look: “Texas burnt orange”—captured with a mix of sets, Jordan exteriors, and CGI, but a few 4K viewing oddities.
• Collaboration & Adaptation ([49:32]-[55:10])
  • Drew Goddard’s adaptation style: Constant communication with Andy Weir, an emphasis on authorial respect, and ability to streamline complex content into tight, three-act scripts with witty patter.

Thematic Deep Dives

• **Who is “Us”?
  • ‘The Martian’ explores community and solidarity: NASA bureaucracy, the global human family, and “leave no one behind” camaraderie.
  • "Who is an us inside of a story?...who is your community?...For the world, Mark is a human out there on a planet, and we care about him coming home." — Joanna [39:06]
• Space Exploration & Changing Attitudes ([45:36]-[46:11])
  • Nostalgia for an era when NASA was inspiring, not sidelined or out-competed by billionaire joyrides or skepticism about space funding.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "I'm going to science the shit out of this." — Multiple references to Mark Watney’s iconic (and memeable) line [14:21, 18:23]
• On procedural comfort:
  "I find people solving problems to be so soothing. There's something very comforting about this movie..." — Amanda [35:20]
• On rewatch context:
  "Project Hail Mary just pierces deeper into emotions. I think Ryan Gosling as a comedian is a better fit than Matt Damon." — Joanna [27:11]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Segment | Timestamp | |-------------------------------------------|-----------| | Pod introduction & Amanda joins | 00:05 | | Fun facts: budget, box office, Oscars | 05:23 | | Amanda’s space movie preferences | 08:52 | | Space procedurals & problem solving | 13:19 | | Book vs. Movie: Adaptation talk | 15:04 | | Accessibility of Weir’s science | 17:09 | | ‘Martian’ vs. ‘Project Hail Mary’ | 21:33 | | Impact of context: 2015 vs. 2026 | 25:56 | | Runtime & rewatch talk | 29:19 | | Casting: pros, cons, alternatives | 32:19, 63:39| | Production design & practical effects | 47:22 | | Drew Goddard & adaptation approach | 49:32 | | Communal meaning in space movies | 39:06 | | Space attitudes: NASA then vs. now | 45:36 | | Oscar retrospectives | 58:03 | | Space sex & potato farming morality test | 79:05, 84:57| | Amanda’s childhood Mesopotamia musical | 98:42 | | Grogu: Pet or Person (Star Wars digression)| 118:33 | | Episode wrap-up: Amanda’s Martian verdict |127:40 |

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Rapid Fire: The Martian Morality & Survival Test

• Would you use your own (or others') poop to grow your only crop?
  “No question. You have to…would any of us have thought of that?” ([85:02])

• What crop would you farm in your own excrement and eat forever?

  • Mallory: Potatoes | Joanna: Kale | Amanda: Avocado
    "If you could grow anything in your or someone else's shit and eat it for a year and a half, what crop would you shit farm?" ([87:41])

• Could you perform surgery on yourself, Mark Watney-style?

  • Amanda: Not unless trained, but maybe in an emergency; Mallory: Might get obsessive, worried about leaving something inside. ([93:05])

• What single song would you listen to for a year and a half in isolation?

  • Mallory: Billy Joel – "For the Longest Time"
  • Joanna: LCD Soundsystem – "All My Friends"
  • Amanda: Daft Punk – "Get Lucky" ([95:57], [100:17])

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Franchise Adjacent: Jessica Chastain’s Career

• The co-hosts lament Jessica Chastain’s post-‘Martian’ career slide despite her talents and Oscar win.
• Ideas for reviving it: Cast her in fantasy franchises, e.g. as an Elven queen in future Tolkien projects. ([68:58])

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Unhinged Bonus: Star Wars Questions from Amanda’s Son

• Improvised Q&A for Amanda’s four-year-old, touching on:
  • Does Grogu go to Earth?
    "Earth is not featured in Star Wars...But it does—could—exist." — Amanda & Mallory ([113:58]-[115:43])
  • Why does the Mandalorian have a cape? “It’s fashion. Sometimes you just want to look chic.” — Mallory ([117:15])
  • Is Grogu a pet or a person?
    "Grogu is a different being, same species as Yoda...But in early seasons, kind of a pet." ([118:33])

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Final Thoughts

• The Martian endures as a clever, crowd-pleasing procedural full of tension and charm. Some rough edges are newly visible in light of more recent, emotionally driven sci-fi like ‘Project Hail Mary,’ but it remains a standout example of big-budget, brainy, feel-good cinema.
• “Solving problems together”—be it in space or on a podcast—remains deeply comforting and inspiring.
• And, for those keeping score: disco rules, kale divides opinions, and space potatoes are less constipating than you’d think.

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Signature Moments:

• "I'm going to science the shit out of this."
• Amanda’s Mesopotamia musical number ([98:48])
• Deep-dive into zero-G sex, space farming, and space stench ([79:05]-[84:51])

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For full nerdy delights, listen to the whole episode and stay tuned for the House of R ‘Project Hail Mary’ deep dive, with Andy Weir in studio.

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Contact:
[e-mail]
Follow: @HouseofRPod on Instagram & TikTok

Transcript

[A]

Foreign.

[B]

Hello. Welcome back to House of R. I'm Joanna Robinson. That's Mali Rubin. And joining us today, it's Amanda Dobbins.

[A]

I'm so honored to be here.

[C]

Dot mob in the house. What a treat. What a thrill.

[B]

We are so thrilled that you're here. I can't even tell you. We've been watching a bunch of space movies leading up to Project Hail Mary. All three of us have seen Project Hail Mary. We're not going to talk about it in detail yet, of course. We'll talk about it on our respective shows when the time comes. But we watched the Martian.

[C]

That's right.

[A]

Sure did.

[B]

And is this conversation gonna get a little weird about the Martian? Guess what.

[C]

It is.

[B]

But we have Amanda here, and we're thrilled and we're excited for things to get weird. Are you excited?

[A]

I'm incredibly excited. I also. I feel like it's my responsibility to make things as weird as possible. So I did. I watched the Martian. I've seen Project Hail Mary. I've got a lot of thoughts about space movies, my relationship to space movies.

[C]

Fantastic.

[A]

Space, other things. But, like, if you don't think that I'm. I'm gonna just try to drive this off the rails every chance I get, is that not my job?

[C]

We support that endeavor, and that's the

[B]

premise of the show today.

[C]

But I do think we should be honest with ourselves and with the bad babies at the top of a Martian rewatch pod. If we all say out loud into the microphones, we're gonna make things as weird as possible, people are going to expect to see us farming in our own shit before the pod ends.

[B]

And we'll be doing that right after this.

[C]

This episode is brought to you by Walt Disney World Resort, the most magical place on Earth where you can go into hyperspace in the Millennium Falcon, ride past hitchhiking ghosts in the Haunted Mansion, and shrink to the size of Andy's toys in Toy Story Land. There are infinite worlds that you can experience, and it's all in one place. Walt Disney world Resort. Visit disneyworld.com to learn more and discover a world of magic this summer A across all four theme parks.

[D]

This message is a paid partnership with Apple Card. One of the most useful things in my life lately has been my Apple card. Great for game nights, vacations, just life in general. And applying was so easy and quick. You can apply, see your credit limit offer, and if approved, you can start using your card in minutes. Do it while watching a basketball game. You could start making purchases with Apple Pay before halftime even rolls around. I also love how I can get up to 3% daily cash back on every purchase. That's more daily cash to use for game tickets. I feel like I scored big time when I started using Apple Card. Apply in the wallet app on your iPhone. Start using it right away with Apple Pay. Subject to credit approval. Apple Card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA, Salt Lake City branch terms and [e-mail].

[C]

Oh, hello.

[B]

It's definitely the same day, same outfits. Absolutely. But we're here with a very special breaking announcement. What is it, Mallory?

[C]

We have our own Instagram and TikTok house of our pod on Instagram and TikTok and TikTok.

[A]

And we want as many followers as

[B]

possible because we will be doing what?

[C]

Book club content, playing with swords, sword play, building Legos.

[B]

I heard rumor of a tattoo, you know, happen.

[C]

The clips from our podcast that you already know and love. Gonna be plenty of them there. Some interview tidbits, some behind the scenes photos. Maybe we'll do some memes.

[B]

We love a meme.

[C]

We love a meme. And speaking of memes, stay subscribed to the Ringerverse handle. Cause that's not going anywhere. That's gonna be the delightful place that it's always been. Plus some fun team up content there.

[B]

Absolutely. But more importantly, House of Our Pod. No, they're all important but House of our pod on TikTok and Instagram, please come join us over there. We'd love to see you. All right, quick programming reminders. If you didn't see last week we did a space draft with Chris Ryan and Rob Mahoney. We did the Versys with the entire Midnight Boys crew. A big crossover event.

[C]

Little time travel happened.

[A]

That happened because we haven't recorded that yet. Look at you.

[C]

I was going to remember what day this podcast runs. Real pro.

[B]

Thank you so much. And then coming up, of course we'll have our project Hail Mary Deep Dive. Plus we have Andy Weir on the pod. Talk about his book and stuff like that. Exciting.

[C]

Really, really wonderful.

[B]

That did already happen. What is time but a construct? Here we are. Uh, Mallory. But how can folks keep track of all the things that we have going on here on this feed?

[C]

Here's what I would recommend. Follow the pod. Let's start there. Follow House of R or Ringerverse or Big Pick on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. You can watch full video episodes of House of R on the Spotify app. Incredible stuff. You can also follow the Ringerverse YouTube channel. You can watch Amanda and Sean on fucking Netflix.

[B]

Yeah. Something you've heard, Might have heard of Netflix. Yeah.

[A]

Let's, let's, let's keep it moving, okay? I'm thrilled to be back on YouTube for this episode of 41 on YouTube. Here I am living my dream.

[C]

You can also follow us on the social media platform of your choosing. And we're not gonna tell you what that is.

[B]

Nope, that's right. Wherever you are, we'll be. Listen to your heart. And you can email us.

[C]

That's right.

[B]

Hobbitsanddragonsmail.com if you want us.

[C]

Inbox is always open.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

You guys are incredibly professional. We don't do any of this on the big picture.

[C]

Well, I would say we've been doing it uninterrupted for four years and some might say. Do you guys need to be adding eight minutes at the top of every pod to your three hour pods?

[B]

Yes, but we're in a rhythm.

[C]

God damn it.

[A]

Let's go now in a brisk fashion

[B]

to our opening snapshot. All right, so some quick fun facts about the Martian in case folks don't remember. Directed by Ridley Scott. Ever heard of him? Screenplay by Drew Goddard. Based on the self published book by Andy Weir. US wide release October 2nd. Right before my birthday, 2015.

[C]

Your birthday. I'm a Libra.

[B]

I am a Libra.

[A]

Like my younger son does that. That bodes really well. The other examples of Libras in my life were like less auspicious. So this is reassuring.

[B]

I love being a Libra. Honestly.

[C]

Do you think of the first week in October primarily as your birthday week or your ringer anniversary week? Which feels more notable in your life?

[B]

Oh, my ringer anniversary week, of course. Let me say it into the microphone proudly.

[C]

To me, it's a very memorable date. I think about it all the time.

[B]

The budget for this movie was a mere $108 million. Honestly.

[C]

That's wild.

[B]

Steal the box office was. The box office was $630.6 million. And that's just astounding to me sitting here in 2026.

[A]

Is that domestic or international?

[B]

That's domestic.

[C]

What I think.

[A]

What is the global box office?

[B]

Let's, let's just, let's just fact check me.

[C]

That could be very.

[A]

I showed up to cause chaos and I did not show up. Did you, did you fact check?

[B]

Well, it's a great, great question.

[A]

Domestic 228 million. International 402 million. That does make sense. That makes way more sense when this is when Hollywood movies still made money in China. And that's also why China is just happily going along with everything in this preposterous.

[B]

Oh, yes, yes.

[A]

Fictional film.

[B]

We love to collaborate.

[A]

That I love deeply.

[B]

But no matter what, it is wild to me. And we talked about this with Interstellar as well. These, like, original sci fi, even though it's based on a book, but, like, an original sci fi property making that much money, even, like, you know, a big name with Matt Damon attached, stuff like that, it still just feels like a different time.

[C]

It was an event. I remember people talk about it like, did you see the Martian? Did you go, you got to see it on a big screen. Bring your friends, et cetera. And it's one year after Interstellar, right, Which was notable for Matt Damon, for Jessica Chastain, and a big space drum. But also for fans of sci fi at scale, you know, and space movies at scale, to be able to have these, like, event cinematic experiences a couple years in a row. And we're talking, like, this is, I mean, 2014 and then 2015 for the Martian. Like, people were at the movies a lot for the MCU, etc. Like, this was a big go see movies with your friends. And if you'.

[B]

Nerd.

[C]

What a time to be a nerd.

[B]

I know.

[C]

We were living, man.

[B]

Also, like, a huge hit at the Oscars, which we'll talk about. Like, it just felt like this is just like a unqualified hit of a movie. And I have some theories as to why not. Just, like, the fact that I think it's good. I have some, like, big potato. Yeah, big potato.

[A]

Idaho potato.

[C]

Lobbyist behind it.

[B]

Idaho was behind it.

[C]

You know, they sponsor a college football bowl game. So, like, they're out there.

[B]

Potatoes. The potato bowl. Yeah.

[C]

Correct. But it's like everyone sponsors a bowl game. There's a pop Tart bowl.

[A]

Right. But what was the potato bowl, formerly known as potatoes.

[C]

The. I believe it was the Idaho potato bowl. Okay, so they. Giant potato mashed potatoes.

[A]

But is it like, what potato?

[C]

Is it just, like, potato? Just the industry of potato. Big potato, big potato.

[B]

The potato lobby sponsors a bowl is what you're telling me.

[C]

That's.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And it's working because here we are talking about it on House of R.

[B]

All right, okay, listen. Why are we doing space months? We covered this a little bit, but I'm curious for you, Amanda. You said you told us you have a lot of thoughts about space movies and space in general. What are your thoughts?

[A]

Well, so it's interesting to hear you guys talk about it in the lineage of sci fi movies, which it obviously is. And also to bring up interstellar, which just gonna get it out of the way. I'm not an interstellar person. Okay. Love the work of Christopher Nolan. Love Inception. Like, I just. I know that interstellar is important to a younger community than myself. Cause once again, I'm 41 on YouTube, but I just didn't click with it.

[C]

Sure.

[A]

And I have been thinking thus about the sci fi or the space movies that I do click with and the ones that I don't. And I think part of the reason that this works for me and also that I would say one of the reasons it had such a sensational box office is that it is kind of crossover sci fi. Yeah, for sure it is. And to put it.

[B]

To put it in the near future, but that doesn't. This could be just science of now.

[A]

Right. Or to put it in another way, it's pretty Earth centric. Like it is set on Mars, but it's about getting back to Earth.

[C]

A lot of cuts to office space at NASA.

[A]

Exactly. Yeah, sure. By the way, that is not Pasadena. Wherever they filmed the Jet Propulsion Lab is somewhere that experiences four seasons. But that's okay.

[C]

Oh, interesting.

[B]

Fair.

[A]

So the JPL looks lovely. I see a lot of people with license plates for it just around my neck of the woods. They seem lovely. So it's focused on getting back to Earth. You spend a lot of time on Earth. It is about another planet, but it's really about recreating Earth conditions on another planet.

[B]

True.

[A]

And there's not really a question of aliens or other galaxies or other things out there. So I mean, an alien would say this is very Earth centric. I mean, an alien would say that alien is also a very Earth centric term. But I realized that the space movies I love. And let me just get like, I am Apollo 13's number one fan. I think that I have seen Apollo 13 more than any other living human besides Ron Howard and his editor.

[C]

You'll be thrilled to know that Chris Ryan drafted the second round of the space movies.

[A]

And Chris and I.

[C]

But he took Interstellar second overall. So he won you and then he lost you. Or he lost you, so he lost

[B]

you and then he won you back.

[A]

That's cowardly because I know that he loves Apollo 13 more. And Interstellar was just like playing to the youth.

[C]

I just can't believe he didn't take Alien at number two overall. That is his favorite movie ever. And he was wearing a fucking Alien shirt.

[B]

What do you think? The first movie Drafted was in a space movie draft.

[A]

In a space movie draft. Well, was Star wars eligible or was that.

[C]

Sure was. And I got Empire in the second fucking round, baby.

[A]

Okay. What? Okay. So was Star Wars. It's a new hope. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I know that that was taken at

[C]

the end of the first round. Rob took it on the turn.

[A]

It's pretty good.

[C]

Joe had the first pick.

[B]

I had the first pick.

[A]

Oh, interesting. Did you take the Martian?

[B]

No, did you?

[C]

That came the very end, actually. Did you?

[A]

You didn't do 2001, did you?

[B]

Guess what?

[C]

I did.

[A]

Wow. Okay.

[C]

I thought it was a great pick.

[A]

Well, see. Yeah, but I would say 2001 is more towards like high sci. Fi. High.

[B]

Well, space movies was just sort of encompassing, like, you know, all of that. Yeah.

[A]

So when I'm trying to delineate like nine or earth stuff. No, pole 13.

[B]

I get. I get what you're talking about.

[A]

Which again, like, they're trying to get home.

[B]

You're spending as much time a First man person.

[A]

I do really love First Man. I mean, first of all, you're just a bunch of boys. Is an eternal line in cinema that is applicable to my everyday life and yours as well. This is really the only space when we don't have to yell it unless we're talking to the control room. And I don't want to, you know, essentialize everyone in the control room, but. Yeah. So first man, but Apollo 13 and then this is probably the least Earth centric, but the most recent favorite space movie of mine is Arrival. It's my favorite Denis Villeneuve. And I mean, that has aliens in it. They're beautiful aliens, Abbott and Costello. But they come to Earth.

[C]

Yeah, they sure do.

[A]

And also the drama and the emotion of that movie is very. Is about humans still and humanity. The other thing that those three movies have in common, and it really struck home for me when I was watching the Martian. The thing that I really respond to in all of these is that they are movies set in space. There's a lot of science, there are questions of the galaxy and existence and all this stuff, but they're basically procedurals.

[B]

There's a problem to solve.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

And that's. And they are films about competence and teamwork and problem solving and a series of problem solving. You know, Jessica Chastain says somewhere during the climactic spacewalk thing, like, let's work the problem.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

And that is what everyone's doing.

[C]

And I thought, let's work the problem by blowing up our own Ship, sure. Wild.

[A]

But you are just watching like very competent people in very high stakes just try to solve a lot of problems. And I find that that's kind of my favorite type of popcorn cinema.

[B]

Watching the various space movies that we've been watching. And you know, I think that's true to a certain degree. I mean to a full degree of interstellar as well. But like watching these movies, watching these. The way these movies celebrate science and intelligence and also emotional teamwork and stuff like that, like. But to prize intelligence and a speciality, you know, in a culture that feels increasingly like anti intellectual. I just really love that this is just a triumphant celebration of we're trying to make the science comprehensible to you at home. This is Andy Weir's job. And then it is Drew Goddard's job to make it even more digestible in both the Martian and Project Hail Mary. We don't want you to feel lost, we don't want you to feel left out. But we want to acknowledge that the people that we are celebrating here are people who have worked very hard to know a lot about a certain thing. So when Mark Watney's like, I'm going to science the shit out of, you know, you get to be serious. Yeah, you get so excited about that. Mallory, how does watching the Martian. I know we already know that your hype for Project Hail Mary is off the charts and has been, you know, forever. But how did watching the Martian sort of impact your feelings about Project Hail Mary?

[C]

So my experience with Andy Weir's work is that the Martian film in 2015 was my first exposure to it. I had not read the Martian at that point. The first Andy Weir book I read was Project Hail Mary when it came out, and I thought it was wonderful. And I continue to think that it is just an excellent book that I really love. I read the Martian after that.

[A]

Can I ask some questions about. Please. As a person who's interested in books and loves both these movies, but has not.

[C]

I meant to DM you in response to. This is a sidebar, but to some of your recent book posts. Have you read the Correspondent?

[B]

No.

[A]

And you know what? That was the most recommended book.

[C]

I just. I already knows this. I read it in like I could not put it down.

[A]

Did you cry?

[B]

Wept.

[C]

Like a fucking.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

See, this is the thing. So if.

[C]

But it's. It's quite sad. Are you not looking to. It's very.

[A]

No, it's very hopeful for everyone at home. I tried out the Instagram like ask a question thing for the first time with book recommendations because we talk a lot about books on jam sessions. On Jam session. I do still read novels. I like reading novels.

[C]

Same.

[A]

And it was really fun and I had tons and tons of replies. The two most recommended were the Correspondent by Virginia Evans and Heart the Lover by Lilly King. I read the previous Lily King book in this sort of, I think, unofficial series called Writers and Lovers and wept so much that it was like it was a problem situation. It wasn't like the end of Atonement weeping, but it was like. It was like, do we need to further investigate what's going on here?

[C]

No. Well, the Correspondent will bring that out for sure.

[B]

No question.

[A]

I'm not looking for that right now, personally. So those were very.

[C]

I'm gonna follow up with you. I have a book club with my college pals about this book on Saturday. Three of the five members of that group are parents. I'm curious to see if they're like, this was actually unbearable or if they're like, this was a beautiful, moving experience. But.

[A]

So I just wanted to ask if you can characterize the Andy Weir books in a little bit of. I'm imagining them as sort of like in the Michael Crichton tradition.

[B]

Yeah, I would say they're like, quite Crichton. Yeah. The science is even more dense, no question, than what Crichton does. But his narrators are so much funnier than Michael Crichton's in Michael Crichton's books. And so you're getting fed, and I am not a math and science person. You're getting fed a lot of math and science info, but, like, from. I mean, I listen to audiobooks.

[A]

Can you just kind of like skip over it and then read the last line where they summarize it kind of.

[B]

But also like, honestly, it's just delivered in a way that is like peppered with like, self deprecation or all these, like, you know, all these sort of things that just make it much easier to get through versus like something like three body problem, which I really struggled with because of all of the dense math and science that I was just like, I'm not interested.

[C]

Yeah. You know, I think I. So a couple of my friends, I think, found Project Hail Mary at the top end of their tolerance for like, do you need a physics degree?

[A]

Okay.

[C]

But I would say that for most people it is like, very approachable and accessible and digestible. The films, undoubtedly. And I think this is one of the ways in which Drew Goddard is the perfect screenwriter for Andy Weir's text because the heart and humanity and the humor and the charm that are so central to not only the overall kind of like tone of the Weir text, but his leading characters in particular, these like wisecracking comedians who happen to also be hot geniuses. Sign me up.

[A]

Honestly, no problems here there.

[C]

Andy Weir was a computer scientist, computer programmer. Like, he's a math science guy who is also a writer. And so his knowledge of the science that he is putting into this and I think also his just deep and abiding passion and interest in it really fuels a lot of the. Well he details in the story.

[B]

He also crowdsourced a lot of the science for. For the Martian.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

He likes to research. Loves to like a self published. So he like put it up and he like asked to like. Yeah, I mean it was eventually picked up, but like, you know that he put it up in chapters and had people like give him feedback and. And so I love that he just sort of like, yeah, mined the larger scientific community.

[A]

Let me ask one more question. Is the science block quoted or written through?

[C]

No, it's so much like the structure of this film is largely oriented around like Mark Watney's logs, which is very clever. Of course, as a way it's more. I mean, it works in the book quite well, but especially in the movie. Like, how are we going to know what's going on in this guy's mind if he's just alone, farming, dating his own shit? So a lot of it is going to be presented in that kind of fashion. Oh, it's like a spoil.

[A]

Is it a transcript of the logs or are they written through?

[B]

He's.

[A]

Are we experimenting with formatting? That's what I'm trying to.

[C]

There's some formal variance in the Martian for sure. I would say there's also more, without spoiling anything about the movie, a little bit more formal and structural variants in Project Hail Mary the text than is in the film in terms of like what you are learning and when and how. But because of the, I think very deft and smart choices that Andy Ware has made about how to structure his narratives, the characters who could just be like science thing. I'm also not a scientist or a mathematician. Not sure if that was clear from

[A]

how I just said science thing.

[C]

But it's not just like a list of lines of code, when there are sections about code. It's very much like this is the explanation for how I need to embark on this stretch of the journey. And so something like the logs in this movie, the conceit behind it that Mark is leaving this chronicle to be discovered about his time here. He's talking in a way that he would have no reason to talk by himself or think even frankly inside of his own mind. That's not how like an internal monologue works but it is presented to us as though he's part of a conversation that will be then very accessible to us. Obviously Project Hail Mary is quite different because of a certain tweak inside of that story. But I think that like Joe, you already mentioned the quote but you know I'm going to have to science the shit out of this is I think the mission statement that drives Andy Weir's work Like that task oriented nature of we have a problem to solve and it is a pressing one. And one of the things that I love to your question about just like how do we find the Martian now that we're in the Project Hail Mary moment. They have a lot of shared strands of DNA but I think they are actually inversions of each other in a fascinating way to consider them together I should say. I love Andy Weir so I feel like a dickhead saying this. I have not read Artemis. He has a third book which I have not read and I would like to check out.

[B]

My nephew read it and when I told him what it Andy Weir said about how he relates to Artemis, my nephew had a lot of thoughts about it which I'll share with you.

[C]

Interesting. I'm looking forward to it. I mean Andy Weir is like people will hear him say this on our interview. I've heard him say this before. He's very self deprecating about the like And Andy Weir's other book.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So I don't, I can't comment on like how much this, that third point on the textual triangle impacts this statement but the Martian is very much the entire world, right inside of NASA, the crew on the Hermes, other nations, as you already alluded to the entire world. We're gathering in Times Square, we're in Trafalgar Square. Every single person alive cares about one man. Project Hail Mary is the opposite of that. Now there is a global circumstance, right, that the film orients around but it is very much one person has to figure out how to save the world. So I think that's fascinating because to me they're both really interesting stories but Project Hail Mary unlocked a different degree of impact. I don't know how much of it has to do with that shift in what's the calculus of who cares about who and who's trying to save whom and how much of it is simply that Rocky is, I think, one of the great creations in the history of fiction. And given how they've marketed the movie and trailers, I don't mind saying that before.

[B]

I know we try to hide it, but now the Rocky's just out there.

[C]

He's in the LEGO set. He's everywhere. I ordered that LEGO set, by the way.

[A]

Don't send it to my house.

[B]

So the plan here today.

[A]

How many pieces do you think it takes to make Rocky? 85.

[C]

He's pretty small. He's like a tiny.

[A]

That doesn't matter. Do you understand?

[C]

I did listen to the discussion you guys had on the pod about the LEGO pieces that were given to docs being a demanding risk for psy.

[A]

The Mandalorian is one and a half inches tall. Yeah. And his. What's his stick called?

[C]

Are you talking about the Darksaber?

[A]

I don't know. Mallory.

[C]

Is that. What did you get a Lego with the Dark saber?

[A]

That's awesome. I'm sure. The Darksaber.

[C]

Are you talking about his Beskar spear?

[B]

The Beskar spear is what I mean.

[C]

Either way, a Lego having either of those is fucking awesome. I can't believe I don't have any.

[A]

It's an inch and a half, and then the stick that goes with it is in multiple pieces. I mean, that's the kind of a Lego lego child is 4 years old. What are we doing here?

[C]

It sounds like you're having a great time building a LEGO set.

[A]

Pieces were learning before we got them out of the box.

[B]

Okay, here's the deal. This is gonna be a chaotic podcast, and we know that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's built into the design of what we're doing here today. We've already sort of bled into some of our questions, but it doesn't matter. We're allegedly asking 21 questions that have something to do with the Martian and then don't. And that's what we're doing here today. Tier one, we're calling a mostly responsible discussion. That is what we're calling tier one. And we're starting with how do we find this movie in 2015 versus how do we find it now? And so I will just start and say, I watched Project Hail Mary. Like, we got to go see an advanced screening. Project Hail Mary. I watched it then I watched the Martian, and I have since seen Project Hail Mary again. And then I watched the Martian again. So that's been my sort of, like, ping ponging back and forth. And when I rewatched the Martian, Having loved it in 2015, I still really like it, but I think Project Hail Mary is an even better version of a similar story. And so it slightly dims in comparison. I also think that there were some things going on in 2015, not just like, who we are as a people and how we felt, but also, like, thinking about. There was something about, like, being a Ridley Scott fan and having to live through an era of Ridley Scott where you have Robin Hood, Prometheus, the counselor, Exodus, Gods and Kings, and you're like, will, excuse me.

[C]

Prometheus roles and counselor.

[B]

I like Prometheus, counselor.

[A]

Listen, sometimes you gotta have fun.

[B]

Okay? Right.

[A]

Sometimes you gotta show up to work and you gotta say, why not?

[B]

What you can't do is defend Exodus, gods and kings.

[A]

No, absolutely.

[B]

And so there were some of us out there in the world who were wondering, will Ridley Scott ever make a tremendously great film again? And then he made the Martian and it ruled.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

And similarly, like, Matt Damon wasn't in like a huge career slump, but it wasn't like, you know, we had some adjustment bureau. We had some. We bought a zoo.

[A]

Adjustment bureau is the hats.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

The counselors. That's when Cameron Diaz fucks the car. Yeah, I saw that in theater.

[A]

Listen, I saw that in theater.

[C]

Had a great time.

[B]

Damon absolutely crushed. And behind the candelabra, I should say. I absolutely loved that from him. But then Elysium happened, the Monuments Men happened, Interstellar shows up. He's his fault. Everyone aggressively fine.

[A]

It's not even aggressively fine. It's quite bad. No, but. And also, I'm not blaming him for all of this.

[B]

I'm just saying we, we saw a bunch of demon.

[A]

The Monuments Men. I, I would like a do over basically with someone from. Besides George Clooney, because that is that premise and even that cast.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Seems like it's the perfect Amanda dad movie. And it really.

[B]

That's the problem is, like, we were all very quite excited for the Monuments Men. And then it was what it was. He does Interstellar shows, pops up, surprise, Interstellar mvp. We're delighted. Not mvp, but that stretcher movie is

[C]

my favorite, but great.

[B]

And then he does the Martian. We're like, holy shit, it's Matt Damon, movie star. It's Ridley Scott, incredible director. It's like a fun, fine time at the movies. And then he does Jason Bourne. Don't worry about it. But like, I think we were all just really excited to have a movie that felt like a huge movie from two people who had had some ups and Downs, let's say generously, of late in their career. And that's part of, I think, what drove the excitement. It's also just like a very fun, enjoyable movie. Project Hail Mary, without getting into details, just like pierces deeper into emotions. I think Ryan Gosling as like a comedian is a better fit than Matt Damon and all this sort of stuff like that. So it pales a bit in comparison. But of course, the Martian is still. I just didn't love it as much as I remembered that I loved it, if that makes sense. What did you think?

[A]

Yeah, I think I agree. I have only seen Project Hail Mary the once and I've seen the Martian more recently. But I remember seeing it in theaters and being completely delighted. Not just because of what you said of Ridley Scott back and for Matt Damon back in form, but even in 2015, movie wise. I mean, we were heavy in Marvel land. We were heavy in franchise and IP land. And so this not original, but like this classical Hollywood structure of book turned into movie starring, movie star made by veteran director. Like, big template, big production brings everyone in. And it was kind of like the four quadrant. Sorry to use an industry term, but everybody, like, everybody went and liked this movie. You know, My sister in law was telling me last night that the first time she met my beloved Ruthie, Ruthie's in town. Shout out Ruthie Barron.

[C]

Shout out Ruthie. I fucking love her.

[A]

Ruthie Baron said that the first time she met my dad was in 2015. Knox Knox. Big Knox, as he's known now. And this is Mallory's favorite game.

[B]

I can name all these people.

[C]

Quick mention you have a sister. Say her name.

[B]

I have a sister. Yep. Great job.

[A]

But Ruthie, my sister in law, recommended the Martian to my dad at that meeting. And then my dad emailed, like he said, emailed me the next day and he was like, tell Ruthie the Martian. Exclamation point. Amazing exclamation point, you know. And so this could bring prospective family members together, no question. You know, it bridges everyone. And that felt like such a release. And that is something that we get less and less of for a number of Hollywood reasons. So I loved it. I remember watching it. I had some casting notes at the moment, at the time, after seeing it,

[C]

still do they hold?

[A]

And I did also, you know, you watch it at home and so the runtime flashes up and I.223 minutes and I was like, ridley, no. And it does lag a little. And I think that I. It doesn't.

[B]

Like.

[A]

It doesn't. Because There are so many exciting set pieces and I was stressed throughout the rewatch, but I also felt the bagginess a little bit.

[B]

I think it felt lean because we had just watched interstellar, which is 2 hours and 49 minutes.

[C]

I did watch the extended 2 and a half hour version. I mean, I think that this is the length for space movies kind of. Some of them are shorter, but a lot of space movies are gonna be two and a half hours. You know, they're long.

[A]

I'm sorry.

[C]

Some of them are long.

[A]

Right. Now that my beloved Apollo 13 is an hour and 40 minutes.

[C]

So different era.

[A]

Maybe some of these scene.

[C]

Different era.

[A]

No, no, no, I'm sorry. 140 minutes exactly.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So listen, I guess I just felt the bagginess and then I agree with you that I remembered Matt Damon being funnier.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And maybe this humor feels different.

[B]

I think this is a funny format Damon performance. But then we've since seen him do like with love and respect, apologies, like his Marvel cameos, which are like even a different. No, they're really funny. Like I think comedy Matt Damon, even though again in behind the Candel Lover he was doing a lot and it was quite fun. But like comedy Matt Damon was not someone we were like super used to and then he did this. But I think he's since done even funnier things.

[A]

And it's also a tone of humor that I remember differently. So some of it was funny. I found myself more affected by his emotional like the cat lay acting that Matt Damon does and just the holding the screen.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Mal, how did you feel 2015 compared to now?

[C]

Yeah, I remember really loving this movie when I saw it. And I think like to the daemon point, but also kind of the this is a movie for everyone point. And like people were buzzing and people were going to the movies. Something that I remember quite vividly that I think is a lasting aspect of the film, but is different once you've seen it. Two parts of this one, everybody talking about it, like, wait until you see Matt Damon's one man show. That's actually not what the movie is. And I think that there was a like animating narrative aspect of discussing the film for completely valid and justified reasons as this, like not only really excellent performance where he is alone on Mars farming potatoes in his own shit. Oh my God. This, this idea to use the video log so that he has a reason to talk. Right. This is like. I remember people discussing this as such a creative way to present the story to us and a vehicle. Then for him to kind of do all these interesting things and really carry the film in a solitary fashion, Right? This is actually a fucking gigantic ensemble cast. I would say there are way too many people in the movie. I also feel that way about the book. When you get to the NASA stretches and it's like, who are you cutting?

[B]

You can cut one person from this

[A]

movie, Kristen Wiig, out, Annie.

[C]

But, yeah, yeah, I mean, I understand the reason to have that character, like comms concern, miscast.

[A]

The humor does not translate.

[B]

I really agree.

[A]

Disaster in the moment, disaster now. It's nobody's fault. Kristen Wiig is very, very, very funny. But I think also that casting is indicative of why I bump on the humor in this movie a little bit. I'm like, if you don't get the tone quite right or you're playing it slightly differently, it doesn't communicate.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so there's like. I mean, we have a lot of I'm the boss, but of this, like, we've got Vincent, we have Mitch. I would argue with love to Sean Beem, who's one of my favorites, that he is quite misgassed as Mitch. I think it's just very odd, though, obviously wonderful to get the Lord of the Rings jokes.

[A]

I don't like Premiere too much. Too winky.

[B]

I just think it, like, takes you out.

[A]

It's just sort of like.

[B]

We all know that Sean Bean was in Lord of the Rings. You know,

[C]

the Hermes crew. Oh, you Google who is Elrond?

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And once they started doing, like, the. I mean, they acknowledge it in the movie, but who is Sean Bean in Lord of the Rings? Boromir. Who's that?

[C]

He's.

[A]

Was he guy.

[B]

He dies in the first one.

[C]

A Man of Gondor. No, man of Gondor. Man of Gondor. I just learned one of the members of the original Fellowship, the tree people, the Ents.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

Just learned about the Ents. Well, recently in Lord of the Rings.

[B]

I would like to rewind for a second. She said horse.

[A]

She did say horse.

[C]

We breezed right past that. But she did say horse.

[B]

Swamvy play horse.

[C]

So I think, like, that animated a lot of the interest and then excitement and appreciation in real time once you kind of know how often the movie is going back to either the Hermes. Though, frankly, I wish we got, like, maybe a touch more time on the Hermes with that crew than we get. Cause I'm kind of like, sebastian Stan has four lines in this movie. What the fuck? I could do with a touch less NASA bureaucracy, but that is what it is. I think the other thing is that there's just a lot of effective tension and anxiety when you're watching the movie for the first time because you don't

[B]

know what's gonna fucking happen.

[C]

And it's like a really incredible experience,

[B]

the rewatchability of this movie.

[C]

When you know then it is much more about. I don't think when you watch it the first time you feel the length at all. Because every minute is a minute of agony. It's another soul thing is wondering.

[A]

I think you're right about that. And again, even in rewatch, I found the various sepises incredibly stressful.

[B]

Stressful. Yeah.

[A]

I think that you do know the

[C]

whole time that he's gonna be okay.

[A]

Yeah. Because you're watching a movie, it's like.

[C]

But you're like, what will he suffer along?

[A]

I mean, I. You know, I honestly think when you're

[B]

watching me me, how skeletal would he get on the. On the potato diet? You know what I mean?

[A]

Listen, we're gonna. We're gonna get pretty thin.

[C]

We got to see a stunt tush, though.

[B]

Yeah, we did. Like, I don't think it's not. I don't think it's unrewatchable. I just don't think it's a movie that people are gonna be like, let's put the Martian on. You know what I mean? I don't know.

[A]

I find people solving problems to be so soothing. There's something very comforting about this movie in the non like, you know, sand dust storm moments of just watching people be like, okay, let's work the problem. Let's do this. I like to know that everything's gonna be okay. I like a resolution.

[B]

Hobbitsanddragonsandgmail.com if the Martian is a huge rewatchable in your house, I'm just curious about that. If that. Cause it's a movie that I think fond feelings for. Yes, there's but maybe doesn't like reach for. Do you know what I mean?

[A]

All right.

[B]

How does this help us prepare for Project Hail Mary? I don't think it's obviously not required viewing to enjoy Project Hail Mary. I think to a lot of the points that Mallory has brought up about the way in which they solve an internal monologue problem in this movie is also used in Project Hail Mary. I think getting that, I just think it helps me appreciate Project Hail Mary even more because I think those weird little fumbles in tone with your Kristen Wiigs or your Michael Pena's or here and there. To me, does not present as a problem in Project Hail Mary. And so. Which you.

[A]

Yeah, no, it helped me. It was really interesting to rewatch it after having seen Project Hail Mary because, as I said, I haven't read the Andy Weir books.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I was like, oh, I see. I understand the tone of both now a little more. This is a thing. This is why you were doing this. And there are moments in Project Hail Mary where I was like, okay, but I'm laughing, but why am I laughing at this moment? Why are we. This jealousy about it, not me.

[C]

I'm like, I'm in fucking heaven. This is great.

[B]

I'll be curious.

[A]

I'm gonna see it again. And now that I know that, and now that I have a little more context for the type of project that I'm going into, I wonder how it'll play.

[B]

How do you feel, Mallory?

[C]

Yeah. I think that understanding Weir's tone and the things he likes to explore and how both, through a central protagonist, these stories about humanity and why people do what they do or fight for what they fight for, or afraid of what they're afraid of through the perspective of a singularly gifted and capable person, is interesting to me. I think that they are different stores, but like stories, but twins in the sense that they are. I don't know. Both about. I really don't want to spoil anything about Project Hail Mary, but it's right there in the title. Why do we call it a Hail Mary? Right. There's a desperate element behind both of these stories. There is a. Like, a desire to study and assess the capacity, the human capacity for preservation. What will people do to try to save themselves or each other? And I think that's fascinating. And I think that that could be so bleak as just a subject matter. And the fact that Andy Weir can.

[B]

Like.

[C]

I think, frankly, if you want to come to the stories this way, you can. You don't have to teach you something. Like, you can learn something when you're reading his books about how science works. I did try to do that a little bit with both the Martian and Project Hail Mary and then realized I was at my capacity. Yeah, My Max pretty quickly. Not for what I'm interested in, but for what I have any faith that I could possibly learn at this point in my life with my adult mind. But what will people do? I think both stories are interested in that. And how do they form relationships to each other? And what does that commitment then do? The fact that the Hermes. I like the moments in this movie where the crew learns that Mark is alive and the fact that it's not a celebration, oh, my God, this guy we love is alive. It's just despair because they have to confront the fact that they left him. And like, I think aspects of the story like that are just really interesting to me as studies in human nature inside of very hard sci fi, math, science, physics, astrophysics, movies.

[B]

I think it was really interesting when Amanda was delineating between like an Earth, what you consider like an Earth centric space movie versus not. And I think there's. There's this other subgenre of like, the Earth is in terrible trouble. And only by this pursuit into space can we, you know, in sunshine or interstellar, like, find an answer that will help all of Earth, et cetera. And that's where Project Hail Mary belongs. But I think both the stories dive into this idea that we have been talking about a lot on this podcast. This idea of, like, who is an us inside of a story? We talk about it a lot in literally a TV show, the Last of Us. But it's like, who is your community? Like, for the Hermes, like, Mark is one of their crew for the world. Mark is a human out there on a planet, and we care about him coming home. I have some questions about that, about how much the world would care about an American astronaut on Mars. But that's the world, the movie and the story exists in that we would care about our crewmate and we would care about a human being out there in the world because it's part of who we are we define as us. Yes.

[C]

I think there's that moment in the movie where Teddy. Not my favorite character, though I do get a kick out of Donald Glover Rich being like, who are you again? And it's like, he's like, I'm the director of NASA.

[B]

This is Jeff Daniels character.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

This isn't. Is the Newsroom still on the air when this was released in theaters?

[B]

I think so.

[C]

That was it. It wasn't over by 2015.

[A]

The Newsroom American Drama Series.

[B]

Let's see, 2014 is.

[A]

But so we're just. We're hot off.

[C]

Well, it's extra enjoyable then when he's studying his own press conference tape in this movie. It's a nice bit of connective tissue there. But I'm paraphrasing as I don't have this line written down. But basically when he's like, every time something goes wrong, people forget why we fly.

[B]

Right.

[C]

And that, to your point, that aspect of that is different in the Martian and Project Hail Mary. The nature of the task. But I like that moment when Mark, when Watney asks Lewis if I die. I know it's a big thing to ask, which is why I'm asking you, but can you go talk to my parents? And he says, I'm dying for something big and beautiful and greater than me. Tell them I said, I can live with that. So that is tapping into an almost existential aspect of, like, flight and, like, tracing back. You know, we were just talking briefly on the spacecraft because perhaps controversially, the Right Stuff was not selected in the space draft. Maybe that was not a surprise. I was a little surprised. But, you know, having just revisited that

[A]

Sam Shepard disrespect right there, we did

[B]

talk about celebrating celebrity. We did go out and celebrate him at the end. I promise you, despite the movie not

[C]

being drafted, we made time.

[B]

I promise.

[C]

To talk about Chuck Yeager.

[A]

We just started the Sam Shepard podcast. Yes.

[C]

Sign us off at any point. You don't even need to ask when. Just assume we're available.

[A]

I suggested Sam Shepard as, like, a recasting on. I think it was. It's complicated rewatchables. And Bill was like, you have to stop bringing up Sam Shepard. Sam Shepard cannot be the answer to every time you want to recast. I can't.

[C]

Yes. But, like, it was interesting to rewatch that and really just luxuriate for three hours and 13 minutes, famously, in that question of, like, what drives people to do this thing? And then what does it represent to people who will never come close to touching anything like that. Right. And so I think the Martian, even though it is a, like, disaster survival story, gets at that larger idea of, like, why do people care about this thing? It's because it represents something seismic about. And this is interesting, I think, actually, with your framing of what you like about space movies, like Coming Home, Getting Back Earth centric. Because obviously, a lot of space fiction as a genre is about pushing to explore the unknown and always going to the brink of just beyond what we were able to see.

[A]

So I think the achievement of the Martian in particular is that it has moments for that existential or that contemplative aspect of it. But it is also. That's definitely not the essential nature of it, which is about solving a bunch of problems in order.

[C]

Will this one man be a job to get home?

[A]

And so if you come for the more science or even just the almost episodic nature of the like, okay, now we gotta fix the Mars Rover. Now we gotta figure out how to make water. Now we Gotta. I switched the order on that. Please don't DM me. But you can watch just like the science experiments in the lab. But if you also want to have those moments of him writing the Jessica Chastain character, or for me, the wordless scene when he's about to. Like the climactic scene, he's about to take off.

[B]

Yes, really good.

[A]

And he's just crying.

[C]

Really, really good.

[A]

And nothing is written, nothing is said. And Daemon is communicating everything that is going on that would go on. It's amazing.

[C]

I think the movie excels in that respect. There are smaller, non Mark Watney versions of that too. Like the Michael Pina character, the Martinez character, when he's reaching out to his little. So telling his wife and kid that he's, sorry, I just signed up for 500 plus more days of this. And just that little moment where I like that.

[B]

Can I tell you how that's undercut by the fact that he's on another space mission by the end of the movie, he's just like, right back on the ship.

[C]

You know, he does get back. He's addicted to it. I'm.

[B]

I'm.

[C]

I'm kind of like, now. I don't really know how. I know. I understand as I understand it, it's hard to become an astronaut. Wouldn't someone else, like, be like, fuck this. This is my. It's my chance. That's my seat. You've already been. I know Ares 3 got cut short,

[B]

but, like, come on, dude, write that movie. The Game of Thrones, politics of NASA. Whose seat did Martinez take when he

[C]

got to go back five years later?

[A]

I'm letting you know that is a subplot in Apollo 13. Who gets to be on the ship and who's not and why.

[B]

That's true. I also think in, like, we talked about this with Interstellar, the shifting attitudes around NASA in the U.S. this idea of, like, when the moon landing happened, or even when, like, the Mars rover happened or whatever, there was this. Yes, of course, if I mean, it did happen. Did Stanley Kubrick direct it or not? Is a question. But like, but like, when we think about how what the national. I won't speak to international. What the national attitude was towards space exploration and how it felt like a good and right thing to do. And part of that was, like, nationalistic propaganda. But the other part of it was just sort of like this excitement of, like, we should explore. We should figure out, like, we should be first. But also, like, we should explore.

[C]

Yeah, we must be Russia.

[B]

Yeah, but we should figure it out. And it's. It's exciting to do so, and it's important and it matters. And I feel like now, and we talked about this on Interstellar, as the billionaires, like, have taken over, appropriated space travel, you know, And. And when I feel like when I talk to people about it, they're like, why should we fund NASA? Why should that be something that, like, our tax sellers do? Because, like, who cares about space? We have problems here. And it's like, yes, we do. Absolutely. That's true.

[C]

But, like, that's why we gotta look out there, folks. We gotta find our next home.

[B]

Scientific curiosity matters, you know? And don't just let the billionaires be the one who know, you know, it's 90 degrees.

[C]

We gotta find another planet.

[B]

Okay, I think we've already covered this a bit. Like, why does Andy Weir's work lend itself to cinematic treatments? But anything else you want to add to that that we haven't already hit?

[C]

I mean, I guess the most obvious one. Space. To quote Chris Ryan from the Space Draft, space looks fucking cool. Yeah, you know, Mars looks really cool. I told Joe this already. I will say, watching the 4K, I know Sean's not here, but I'll bring a little bit of the physical media boy energy.

[B]

No, but this is like your. This is a new thing. And it is. It is very Adam centric. I know, but it's like Molly will be like, well, I did watch this on 4K.

[C]

Adam has been since the moment I met him. I will never forget going to his apartment for the first time. This was back in the New York days. And his entire, like, EntryWay was just DVDs. So this is a lifelong thing for him.

[A]

Okay, but therefore the DVDs. Now that the Blu Rays and the 4Ks.

[B]

The DVD, the DVD.

[C]

The 4K. Almost the entire display case is 4Ks now. And even that, there's, like. There are, like, 10 piles on the couch right next to it. We're really out of space. We've been discussing what to do about it. I'm also out of space for my books. It's become a bit of a. We got to figure out some new shelving. He's got all the 4Ks and Blu Rays still out. The DVDs are in, like, a cabinet because there's no more room on the shelves.

[A]

He hasn't traded them in.

[C]

He has them all.

[A]

He's building his own library of Alexandria.

[C]

Exactly. That's exactly right. The 4K. Something about. I can't remember if I felt this way about the movie in real time in the theaters. But something about those initial, like, sweeping pans of Mars really, like, looked weird to me and made my.

[B]

If I had the emotions, which, like, I never would.

[C]

Our settings fucked up.

[A]

Yeah. And this is. I mean, this was 2015. I mean, if you go back and you watch Gladiator, another Ridley Scott film that won best picture, like those ruins, or I guess they're not ruins, like all of those palaces. Rome as it exists. And Gladiator is like. My son drew it on his iPad. It looks quite bad now. And some of it is just technology and where we are.

[C]

The wheat looks beautiful though. The wheat looks beautiful, yeah.

[A]

And everyone in the wheat looks good.

[C]

But I think the Martian overall looks really good because I think the skyscapes look really beautiful. That opening few minutes and I'm like, what has gone wrong here? But in general, there's something about like, you know that like Texas, like hook em longhorns, burnt orange. Just like that.

[A]

Right.

[C]

It looks really cool. Project Hail Mary looks fucking amazing and can't wait for everyone to get to see it.

[A]

As I understood it, like, they. They filmed a lot of this is done on green screens. They didn't use a vomit comet. They're on wires that you then. That they then CGI'd out. And I mean, you can watch behind the scenes footage on the Internet of like everyone kind of floating around. And then they did film the exteriors or at least like the exteriors that they then used behind the green screen footage in Jordan, in a very famous part of Jordan that's been in a lot of films. So all of these things, if they're not real together, are at least based on real things, you know. And the other nice thing about space movies is that because it's such a limited physical environment, like they built the hab, they built all of these different. They grew the potato plants. So even though there are a lot of effects, they are. They're still filming real built things.

[B]

Oh, it's quite grounded in that. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Which is helpful on the Drew Goddard front. This is like, we want to talk about Drew Goddard a bit because he. So he is the screenwriter on the Martian as well as Project Hail Mary. Again, we chatted to Andy Weir about like, why Drew was the guy and you can hear him talk about that in our Project Hail Mary episode. But Drew, who has this background, has been attached to like, almost everything that's ever been important to me, including like Lost, Buff, Vampire Slayer, Alias, the Good Place, Angel, Cloverfield, Cabin in The woods. World War Z, not so much. Bad times of the L Royale. And was an initial part of the Daredevil launch. And so, like, which Daredevil?

[A]

Ben Affleck?

[B]

Daredevil. No, the Netflix show. Daredevil initially involved. Not like, less interested.

[C]

Classic, classic. You take.

[B]

You should be interested in Charlie Cox. I think. You should be very interested in Charlie Cox.

[C]

I do think.

[A]

Also, does Daredevil show up in the Spider man movie where they all point at each other?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

He's the lawyer, Matt Murdock, famously. Sean and I talked about this.

[A]

That's what happened.

[C]

We were talking about the three spider mans on big pic. And you were like, you guys have lost your fucking minds.

[A]

And you did also talk about the Spiderman. There were three in this reading. And you both leaned over and you were like, that Matt Murdock. And I was like, I don't know who that is.

[C]

You're missing out.

[A]

Okay. Is that a different Matt Murdock than the Matt Murdock thing? Drew Goddard, like.

[B]

No. Same way Netflix. Daredevil in an MCU movie. I know, Exactly.

[A]

Now he's on Disney legal processes.

[C]

Now he's on Disney.

[B]

Were you more excited about Department of Damage Control? Is that like what you were excited about in that Spider man movie?

[C]

I don't.

[A]

Which part was that?

[B]

Don't worry about it.

[A]

I liked it when Andrew Garfield saved Zendaya, whose name I can't remember. I liked it when they pointed each other. I really liked that movie.

[C]

It's a great time with the Spider man. Movies are the Spider Man.

[A]

I get it. I don't like the Jake Gyllenhaal drones one. It's.

[B]

You don't.

[C]

Far from home.

[A]

I don't.

[C]

It's the. Of the three that we have so far, it's. It's third on the list. Not very good homecoming.

[B]

What about Venice? You're pro. Venice.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

You love. Sure.

[C]

You love it.

[A]

Did they go to Venice in that one?

[C]

Yeah, they start. They're in Venice, they go to Venice.

[A]

We're honestly. We're really venturing into Gwyneth Paltrow. Like, I was in that. No, I was in Avengers territory with me. I've seen all of them, but at this point, I can't differentiate.

[C]

Fair enough. Fair enough.

[B]

There's a great long, long interview with Drew Goddard that Adam Vary did on buzzfeed when this mov where he talks about sort of his process and there's a couple things that he really nailed. One is he talks about constantly calling Andy Weir and Andy Weir was not a producer on the Martian. So, like, he didn't have to call Andy Weir, but he was just constantly like checking in with him. And there's just like a respect for the author that I love about Drew Goddard. But also he was talking about how he wanted to tweak something to make it sort of a little bit more movie friendly and that Andy Weir lectured him at length about how an astronaut would never say that. And he put that lecture kind of in the movie. Just sort of like he thought it was so funny that Andy Weir, like sort of was so affronted about his trying to shortcut science that he put it.

[C]

Someone should share this story with George R.R. martin and Ryan Condal and see if

[B]

it's helpful, see if it's okay.

[A]

I just read the headlines, you know, and I'm just like, oh, that. That seems not good. It seems like they're not friends.

[B]

It's not great.

[A]

I don't know whose show it's whose anymore.

[B]

He talked a lot about how he spent very long time on the outline before he actually wrote the thing, which is something that he got from Joss Whedon, a problematic person, but also taught Drew Goddard a lot of what he knows about how to write a script and how it clearly breaks into a three act structure. And, you know, it gave him some guiding posts on how to put this all together. But I think just like how he's able to simplify the science. Not just with the very Stranger Things final season esque. Like we take a stapler and we show you with the pepper pot how we're gonna do the thing which they did ad nauseam in Stranger Things. Do you use an actual stapler in this movie? In this movie?

[C]

I don't think no.

[A]

I know they use a stapler in this and I. Stranger Things in a.

[B]

There was a Slinky.

[C]

There's a Slinky famously in season one. Than a.

[A]

Well, so the paper plate.

[C]

The paper plate.

[B]

And a pencil through the paper plate is fine.

[A]

Thumbs up, thumbs down from you guys.

[C]

We thought that the. The epilogue. Code up the fight. No. 5 to 40 minutes.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

Very emotional.

[A]

Did it turn out well or not?

[B]

Well, no, I don't think it turned out well.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

Like I like for the characters.

[A]

Are they. Are they fulfilled?

[C]

I choose to believe. Yeah, I choose to believe to quote the story.

[B]

So I just think that like this

[A]

is a good idea for a show where I just come in and lightning round, like good, bad. Yes.

[B]

No, I would watch and just based on. Maybe just based on our Facial expressions. You decide whether or not this is something that worked out. Yeah, I think that, like, the Joss Patter that he uses and all of that works so beautifully in these movies. He's like, a perfect person to distill this.

[C]

I. Yeah, it's a beautiful partnership that I hope continues. I think it's really fun that we've gotten different directors. Ridley Scott and Lord and Miller. Like, that's awesome. And obviously Lord and Miller, as we'll talk about when we all cover Project Hail Mary. Hard to think of directors more suited to adapting that particular story. It's just perfect. But Goddard is like, a through line of adapting. Weir's work is really awesome. And I think that that passion that you're identifying in that, like, sense and like a desire to do right by the story that you're identifying. Joe.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah, it was interesting. Like, we went to. We were at Comic Con in the summer and we went to the Project Hail Mary panel and Drew Goddard was one of the panelists and he was so, I thought, so palpably emotional talking about why he loves the characters in the story. Like, it was really moving and beautiful and lovely. And, you know, I think that we talk about this a lot across the various things that we cover. I think that the nature. Because adaptations always have tweaks. They have to. And like, we. When we love a text and we are really partial to a text, like, you know, I am guilty of this a lot. I want the adaptation to be as faithful as possible. And I think these are very faithful adaptations that also make smart choices. One thing that was interesting about going back to the Martian, because again, I saw it before I had read it. Now I'm like, huh? Some of the things that didn't make it into the film from the book, I don't. I don't totally know why. Just because they're so cinematic. Like the rover crash on that final drive. I understand cutting something like the additional, like, Lost Communication because Mark fries his tech and stuff. That might have felt like one too many. Here's a setback, and I now have to figure out how to move forward. But like, the Rover, just another storm coming and the rover crashing. When you're reading that in the novel and like, like I.

[B]

You can.

[C]

This is a movie scene. So that's a little bit puzzling to me. But in terms of. That's not. I don't think a Goddard choice. That's probably just how much time do we have and how many big set pieces are we doing? So, yeah, I think his Ability to, like, capture the charm, the humor, the emotion and the smarts. You've got to be able to hit all of those elements if you're adapting Weir. And I think Goddard does it really wonderfully in, you know, Tease for the Mark for Project Hail Mary. In both.

[A]

It's incredible screenwriting. And I can't speak as much to the adaptation. Cause I haven't read the books. But what I see on the screen are incredibly complex, recreated scientific worlds that boil down to something that anyone can understand. And it's gotta get home. Or even Project Hail Mary. Am I allowed to spoil the problem? Is it in the trailer? I stopped watching the trailers at some point, but it's a very complex thing. But the basic version of it is like, we gotta save this thing.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Like, this thing is no longer working. We have to save it. Anyone can understand it. It's like being explained to children at the beginning. Which was like a little on the nose for me. But, you know, as a teacher.

[B]

Well, sure.

[A]

As is Mark Watney at the end.

[C]

That's right.

[A]

But it's really. It is masterful to be able to boil down not just like this science, but these plots and these stories into something that are so high stakes and so complicated and yet so baseline, simple. They get to the essential nature of a story in a way that appeals to everybody.

[B]

Yeah. Like, to that end, I mean, my next question is like, this movie was nominated for seven Oscars, which is wild. This is the Spotlight year, which we talked about very recently on the big pic, the Revenant year. It was nominated for Best Picture, Best Actor, Best Adapted Screenplay, Best Production Design, Best Sound Editing, Best Sound Mixing, and Best Visual Effects. Shout out the days when there were two sound categories. If you could give it one. What would you give it? If I give it adapted screenplay, which is what I remember the time there was a thought that it would win, potentially would win that. The Big Short one. And that's tough because the Big Short is also a really great. Does a really great job of boiling down hard concepts into a fun.

[A]

They're still not my favorite adaptation of a Michael Lewis book, which is, of course, Moneyball. Thank you so much. Forever.

[C]

Naturally.

[A]

Yeah. I too, I think, would go with writing because it was nominated in Best Picture. But Spotlight won. I think Spotlight is an incredible movie. This otherwise is sort of a tough

[C]

year to be a one for actor,

[A]

which is good and you want. But he wins for the Revenant, which is makeup. I don't really care for the Revenant. Brie Larson In Room, Mark Rylance in Bridge of Spies, who's a wonderful actor and I like that movie.

[B]

No, Mark Rylance should have an Oscar. It shouldn't be for Bridge of Spice.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Alicia Vikander won an Oscar for the Danish Girl, but actually it was for Ex Machina. They just did not want to nominate for Ex Machina. No, I mean, like, Damon was the only. I mean, you didn't. You could give them. You could give an Oscar in any category. I'm just saying, like, Damon's not beating DiCaprio on his year where he's just like, you know, dancing on Ellen or doing whatever he needs to do to get that Oscar.

[A]

He can actually dance on Ellen.

[B]

No, but he told a hilarious. Like a hilarious anecdote on Ellen and I was like, oh, Leo's trying, Leo's running. You know what I mean? Like, I think he did accent work as far as I remember.

[C]

So sound editing, sound mixing, and production design all went to Fury Road. No quibbles. That makes sense.

[A]

And I know that you give Fury Road best picture in.

[B]

I do.

[C]

And I think that's really valuable visual effects. Ex Machina, not Fury Road or the Martian.

[B]

But that Ex Machina visual effect is the whole movie.

[C]

Yeah, that's a fascinating one. I think it's. Of these options. Screenplay makes sense for sure.

[A]

Congratulations, Drew Goddard.

[B]

Drew Goddard, you now have an Oscar.

[C]

Congrats, Drew. I think, Amanda, the thing you identified is really crucial because there's enough science still to not, I think, to not leave the door open for like, boy, this was really dumbed down and sapped of its sci fi essence. Like, we get.

[B]

I think it's more elegant with love and respect to the Big Short than Margot Robbie in a bathtub. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, sure.

[A]

Is still expository. And people are explaining things to each other and thus to the audience. You can kind of like see. But it's elegant and they say a lot of words.

[C]

And the moments that we get into some more detailed formulas or like, you know, vectors and atmosphere and stuff like that, it's because it really matters. Are they gonna be at not only the right position, but the right velocity to get Mark now that they've made this choice to go there?

[A]

They do. But it's very clever even in the science that it uses, because the major set pieces around things you can understand, like velocity. I didn't take AP physics, but I do remember velocity. Right. And also.

[C]

Yeah. Or like Mark being like, this is how I'm gonna make water and this is What I like, do you need to totally understand that he forgot to count for like what he was exhaling and why that would matter? No, it's just like he is flexing. Cause he does it. Yeah, exactly. And it's very accessible whether or not you're a chemist or a botist.

[A]

But also if you didn't take chemistry, like if you making water, you're like,

[C]

I need water to grow food.

[A]

Right. Like if, if you, if you sat through any science class.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

At some point it's at least like ringing a bell. So it's not totally.

[C]

You don't need to track the minutes it takes for the messages. You just need to know mission control can't help.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Right.

[C]

It's so it's. Yeah, it's. It's. And there's way more science in the books than in the films.

[B]

Fathoms more. Yeah.

[A]

I'm not an astronaut.

[C]

I don't need an astronaut.

[B]

Audiences have spoken. Project Hail Mary is an awe inspiring masterpiece. So I met an alien. If you've fallen out of love with going to the movies, this one will bring you back. Ryan gosling in the first must see movie of 2026. Project Hail Mary, rated PG13, may be inappropriate for children under 13 only in theaters Friday.

[D]

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[B]

Was Matt Damon the right guy to play Mark Watney?

[C]

I think he's Great as Watney.

[B]

I think he's great as Watney. Is there Anyone else in 2015 that you would put in that role? I just think Gosling is a slightly better fit for this tone. So, like, 2015 Gosling. But I'm just like, you know, I'm

[A]

looking here at the top 10. So star. The Force Awakens. So Harrison Ford.

[B]

Too old.

[A]

But I would have enjoyed Oscar Isaac. Whatever.

[B]

Not for me.

[A]

I would enjoy that. Yeah, that would be good. He could be charming.

[C]

That would be good.

[A]

Is Adam Driver in Force Awakens, or

[C]

does he at least show up in the end? Yes, as is Oscar Isaac.

[A]

Okay, okay. No, I remember that he's the pilot, but he doesn't have that much to do. And Poe Damero.

[C]

Not in there.

[B]

Not in that one.

[C]

Listen, listen.

[A]

We were talking about the climactic scene in Force Awakens. Shawn and I were the other day when Rey gets the lightsaber instead of John Boyega's character.

[B]

That guy.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Finn.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

And I'll never forget that.

[C]

That stretch is amazing.

[A]

I have a lot to say about three movies that I barely understood, overseen by J.J. abrams. But that moment and the way they do it and the way they bring a girl Jedi into it, which is not like in a girl bossy way. It's just that the lightsaber goes hurt is amazing. And I'll never forget seeing that. I did forget everyone else in the movie, but that's okay. Okay, so, I mean, she could. No, she's too young.

[C]

Kylo Ren slander here.

[A]

Oh, he's really good. But I remember him shirtless in the next one in the red room, just being last.

[B]

He's quite helmeted in.

[A]

Okay. Oh, but then they have. Isn't that when. Spoiler alert for Force Awakens? I guess. Harrison Ford. When Han Solo, like, comes back and there are all those waves, and then he.

[C]

No, that's.

[B]

That's the third one.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

All right. That was a really good one.

[C]

This is when.

[A]

But that movie had Babu Frik, whose name I finally learned. Yes, I like Babu Frick.

[C]

I mean, it's an Anzellan moment for you and Nox. Okay, I'm sticking with Daemon as Watney Pratt.

[A]

No, I don't remember any. Anyone in Avengers. I don't think anyone in Avengers could do this. No one in the Fast and Furious movies is jumping out to me. The Martian, Daniel Spector, Daniel Craig. No, I was just looking at the people in the top movies.

[C]

I'm sticking with Damon.

[A]

I think Ben Affleck could be good.

[B]

Okay, you're going Affleck. You're going Damon.

[A]

I was just like, well, we're here. Let's. Let's put it.

[B]

I mean, I would be great correcting the record, which is like, when we talked about recasting or we caught. When we talked about casting a role in Interstellar, Anne Hathaway's wolf himself. A lot of our listeners are like, you should have done Oscar Isaac. And I really agree with that. Who would look hot and bearded stranded on a planet somewhere? Oscar Isaac.

[C]

Fantastic.

[B]

Yeah, it's very funny, but I mean, Demon's great. Here's my next question. This might seem rude, but I just really love her and I support her. What's happened to Jessica Chastain's career and how do we fix it? She has an Oscar, so she's doing fine, right?

[A]

She has an Oscar for her.

[B]

Her.

[A]

It's not the worst. No, it's not. It's the worst page. Have you seen the Good Nurse?

[B]

Yes, I have.

[A]

I actually did want to know what happens in the Good Nurse, so I shouldn't, like, totally neg it, but let's see. It's been a really interesting few years for Jessica Chastain, who does have an Oscar.

[B]

And, like, between Interstellar and the Martian, like, you know, and Zero Dark Thirty came just before it, like, and then she did it. Chapter Two, which should have been better than it was, but that's not her fault. But then, like, there's a line on her Wikipedia. Wikipedia, the greatest source of all time, but it says Chastain received further acclaim for playing strong willed women in the dramas. And then just like lists a bunch of, you know, and it's just like, that's not what I think. Jessica Chastain should be, like, one of our biggest movie stars.

[A]

The Good Nurse. Then she did George and Tammy, which I never watched, which was a TV show.

[B]

The Tammy Wynette thing.

[A]

Yes. And then Memory. Didn't see it. Mother's Instinct. Didn't see it. Dreams. Mother's Instinct. These are three films that were like, completely, completely dumped. I'm not aware. I wasn't aware. She's doing a podcast series called the Space within, which I guess is scripted. Oh, dear. This is.

[B]

This is grim.

[A]

So I haven't seen anything that she has been in since the good nurse in 2022.

[B]

So how do we. How do we fix that? I mean, I know she's doing a lot of stage work, which she likes doing, and that's great, but I'm just saying, like, oh, yeah.

[C]

Scenes from A marriage.

[B]

I mean, scenes from a marriage.

[C]

That was great.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

Oscar Isaac and Justin Chastain.

[A]

There you go.

[C]

That was wonderful.

[B]

Yeah. And there's. There's the her killed Apple TV plus show, you know?

[A]

Right.

[B]

But I just think that she should

[A]

be like, did we know that she's doing well? Did we know that Pacino is apparently doing an upcoming version of King Lear where Pacino is King Lear. She is Goneril. Rachel Brosnahan is Regan, and Ariana debose is Cordelia.

[B]

Ariana debose is Cordelia.

[A]

I'm closing this tab. I have nothing more to say. I just learned about this. I shared it with you. I'm moving on.

[B]

Ariana DeBose, Cordelia.

[C]

This is a film.

[A]

Apparently, Pacino doing Lear. I don't. I think it's maybe gone away from us, but that's okay.

[C]

All right.

[B]

What's happening? All right.

[A]

Anyway, I wish her well.

[B]

I just want more for Jessica Chastain as the points. And she was in such a great place when she made Interstellar, the Martian, Zero Dark Thirty, etc. And then I just don't know why she's not one of our bigger stars.

[C]

Saw her once at our old office, the old Sunset Gower complex, walking through the courtyard.

[B]

Mali Rubin is just astonishing. Let's think about it from a house of art perspective. You're gonna give Jessica Chastain a franchise of some kind. What kind of franchise do you want for her?

[C]

Let's see. What are our choices? She can be in Game of Thrones.

[A]

She'd be a good James Bond.

[C]

I mean, like, the.

[B]

The issues that the.

[A]

We need one.

[B]

I like that the Marvel superhero movie that. That she made was Dark Phoenix.

[C]

Right. That's tough.

[A]

Oh, who was she?

[C]

That's very, very tough. You know, she played Vuk Vook.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And then we could put her in. This is hard, actually. How long do we want to tie her up for with the franchise?

[A]

I mean, she seems, like, Elfish. You know, I could put her in

[B]

the Hunt for Gollum with Kate Winslet.

[C]

That would be great. Well, what about. It's too.

[B]

Did you see that Kate Winslet is allegedly playing Gollum's grandmother? That. That's what they're doing with Kate Winslet. Sensational.

[A]

So can I. I'm sorry.

[B]

So more movies.

[A]

Questions about the Lord of the Rings,

[C]

but, like, Way of Water and Fire and Ash.

[A]

Just back in the mocap, she was really, really, really underused in Avatar. Fire and ash. I just want to say Kate, one's lit. She was really sidelined for a while. And then the traumatic birth scene.

[C]

Yeah, that was.

[A]

Listen, what? Weren't the first three Lord of the Rings? Weren't the original three about the hunt for Gollum? Gollum?

[C]

Well, no, they're about the one destroying the Ring. Yeah.

[B]

Okay. In a way, Gollum was hunting them to a certain degree.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. And so now this is a prequel. Okay, so why are they hunting him if he hasn't even hunted, if he hasn't gotten the Ring yet?

[C]

I think the main answer here is ip.

[A]

Well, sure, but like, tell me what the story is.

[B]

What did Gollum do from the book that like Aragorn was looking for Gollum and they're because of.

[A]

Does Aragorn have like premonition? Does he know that Gollums is this,

[B]

like,

[C]

tell Amanda, who's rumored to play young Aragorn, and she will have no further questions.

[B]

Leah Woodall.

[C]

I'm.

[B]

I'm.

[A]

It's okay. It's okay. I thought you were gonna say Jacob Elordi. And so then I was like, great.

[C]

You know what I mean? He'd be, he'd be great.

[B]

I. I honestly, like, there is a reason for the hunt for Gollum to exist other than ip. There is like some textual, but it's so slim. So whatever they're gonna do, it's gonna be like what they did with the Hobbit, where they like just blew up a great slim children's book into three growing movies. They're blowing up like one concept into now we're gonna know who Gollum's grandmother was and she's played by Kate Winslet.

[C]

I'm in.

[A]

I'm in.

[C]

Sometimes taking just a few nuggets and expanding it can work beautifully. Rings of Power.

[B]

You want to know who this is? You want to know all about Deagle?

[C]

Now you're like, I do Deagle and Deagle.

[B]

I want to know all about them.

[C]

I don't know where we should put Jessica Chastain though. In terms of your franchise question. That's a challenge anywhere.

[A]

What was Cate Blanchett doing in those movies?

[B]

Galadriel.

[C]

Galadriel. Is Galadriel here?

[B]

Elven queen.

[A]

I think that Jessica Chastain could be Elven royalty.

[B]

I agree.

[A]

There you go.

[C]

Definitely. All right, well, it's probably too late for Rings of Power season three.

[B]

Some Silmarillian shit.

[C]

Yeah, I love it.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah. Let's get her in some future Rings project. That sounds great.

[B]

We did it.

[C]

Wonderful.

[B]

We fixed her career with some Bezos funded future Lord of the Rings project. Sounds great. Have we talked enough about Michael Pena and Kristen Rigg? Anything else we want to add that we haven't already gotten into?

[A]

So who is the least believable NASA employee, and why is it Kristen Wiig? She is who I would recast. I do feel like Donald Glover's character is underdeveloped, under explained, overly quirked. Overly quirked. And also when he's. I had forgotten the scene where he's just sitting with his laptop plugged into the actual supercomputer to check the map and just. Is just sitting there for a while, like me in the library stacks in college. And then he just gets a flash up.

[C]

You gotta check the math notation.

[A]

Correct.

[C]

You gotta check the math.

[A]

Listen, that's cool to know how NASA and supercomputers work.

[B]

Don't you wish our job was that easy? Where it's just like. Your opinion's correct, Amanda. Hot take.

[A]

Correct.

[B]

All right. Okay, here's a question. I was worried.

[A]

What kind of cord are you using to plug into a supercomputer in 2015?

[B]

A super cord?

[A]

Is that like. It's a super cord, like a lightning cable?

[C]

Like, it's probably more proprietary than that. I would think of a NASA super, but I don't know.

[B]

I don't know.

[C]

I think I agree that we have not tapped into Kristen Wiig's comedic genius with Annie Montross. I am standing on my corner here. That Sean Beam is actually the most. That Sean Beam is most miscast as Mitch because there's, like, this. It feels like he's speaking the way that Boromir or Ned. This, like, really kind of. I don't have to. Heroic honor. I don't have to report to Vincent. I don't have to answer to Vincent or anyone.

[A]

For me, it's in the tradition of Ed Harris, flight director of Apollo 13. With the Jean and the vest and the like. If they don't sleep, we don't sleep. And it's just like a very.

[C]

I. Kurt. Like. But he's, like, operating from a position of, like, a mobility.

[A]

I'm doing this for my aggravity.

[C]

Yeah, right.

[A]

He's like, that's what Ed Harris is doing. But do you feel like he's playing,

[B]

like, coach on Survivor 50 and he

[A]

wipes away that one too much honor and integrity.

[C]

Ozzy, you can't question my. Honestly, kind of. The conversation between Mitch and Teddy is not dissimilar from coach calling out Ozzy on the mat. You're really onto something here. I love Sean Bean. He's like one of my favorites. When Teddy says, I'm going to expect your resignation at the end of this, I'm like, respectfully, you're in charge of NASA and this is a moment of crazy. This, this guy's ID card should not work anymore.

[B]

He's already fired.

[C]

He went behind his back to secretly send a message to the Hermes crew.

[B]

That's an insane acting and supporting incredibly successful results.

[A]

They didn't test the probe.

[B]

But not all bosses are correct.

[C]

No, I know, I just don't believe. I'm not saying it's not the right outcome. I don't believe that Teddy wouldn't have fired. There's no way.

[B]

Here's my follow up question since since the outcome was correct and the world rejoiced, is there something. And let's leave sports out of it because I can't have a conversation about it that makes me seem smart at all. Is there a global event that could get people out into as you said, Trafalgar Square, Times Square, around the world, looking at giant screens and getting excited about it? Is there something that could get us off our phones, off our laptops, out of the house, into the street? Streets?

[C]

I mean even sports I think wouldn't work because on the yes, in terms of the legions. But you're rooting against each other. Sports, you have sides, you have rooting interest in allegiance.

[B]

Yeah, I guess you're not thinking about like shared outcome.

[C]

You just are talking about the mass of people who are interested or the fact that everyone would be united toward one outcome.

[B]

I think the answer. I think I have the answer going outside in general, I think I have the answer.

[C]

What is it?

[B]

I think it's first contact. I think if we haven't, if the government is transparent about our first contact with an alien and they transmitted which they wouldn't, but if they did, would you not want to go and be with people in that moment that we make first contact with aliens?

[A]

Everybody's going to be building their shelters at that point. But that's more about, you know, the world is broken and the way we respond to Major.

[B]

I guess that's my question. We don't try to hope core frame it but like is the world too broken to have this. Yeah, let's save one man moment.

[A]

Such a this movie is 2015. This is late Obama. Yeah. You know like this is like late Obama era. This is like a real moment of yes we can and people and I remember like I remember the community and like where I was when Obama was elected. Oh yeah, we were all out in the streets. I was obviously like out in the

[B]

streets for Obama for sure. Yeah.

[A]

But now we live in a world where Barack Obama has to issue clarifications about whether aliens do or do not exist.

[B]

We were ready to go out on the street in 2016. We thought for Hillary Clinton, like in San Francisco.

[A]

I did go out in 2020 when they finally called for Biden. I made my own sign and I drove around honking.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

East northeast Los Angeles. And it was very fun.

[C]

We did a Joe.

[A]

But yeah, I mean basically that it'll haunt me. But listen, it was deep pandemic. You needed to do something. It's true.

[B]

Do you have an answer for this? What would get people to say, I

[C]

think there is one, which is pretty depressing because I think even first contact, I think it would be something like the stretches in contact where there are a lot of people out but they all want something different or they're trying to do something different. So there's like the religious faction that

[B]

has all your Jake views and like.

[C]

Yeah, exactly. The reaction in the recent Netflix adaptation in recent. Ish. I guess at this point it's been like two fucking years. So three body problem was kind of, I think more true to how that would go.

[A]

Do they meet aliens in that? Well, I never found out what the spoiler. What the bodies were.

[C]

And there's like, you know, when there's like the message in the sky, is

[A]

it three bodies or three problems?

[C]

I still don't. No. Well, it's the problem of the three bodies.

[A]

Of the three bodies. Okay. Is one of them Earth or is one of them.

[C]

It does involve suns and planets and orbits and rotations, but it also, in this particular story, in this stretch of it involves virtual reality. Yeah. So I don't think it's worth trying to sell you out. I don't endorse it, but I'm looking forward to seeing what they do with the rest of that story.

[B]

Here's my favorite question. And this is the last of the quote, reasonable questions. And is it a reasonable question? Who's to say how often and under which zero G circumstances do you imagine Sebastian Stan and Kate Mara boned in that spaceship? Okay, so this is what we know. They share a smooch later, many years later, there's a baby.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Right. But we don't see any of the return trip from Mars to Earth.

[B]

Can I please share some information I learned about. About sex and space for this podcast?

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

A Google. Google search I definitely did on this my work laptop. Okay. This is from an article from the CBC which is titled Scientists are worried about how we're going to have sex in space. Okay. Okay.

[A]

Yeah. Because doesn't the lack of gravity affect

[B]

how the sperm swims and more importantly how the blood flows?

[A]

Oh, right, of course, yes. Because it's not about. This is just about.

[B]

Blood tends to flow into the chest and head in space. So getting it to behave in bedroom friendly ways that necessitate rapid blood flow is challenging. Scientifically speaking, managing and maintaining an erection in space is harder than it is on earth. Quote, male arousal would be more challenging in space, though it could still technically be possible. And then the article goes on to like. Oh, and women too, I guess.

[A]

Well, I mean, in that for once women have the upper hand slightly so.

[B]

But blood flow still matters in female arousal.

[A]

That's true. Okay, but so is that true only in zero gravity or Because. Because the interesting thing about the Hermes is that there are some floating rooms, right? Like the hallways seem to be zero gravity, but that the gym and other living spaces seem to be gravitized, which

[B]

is definitely the verb. Specifically, zero gravity. Okay, so like if there's a gravitational boning room, a designated gravitational boning room, then that's great news.

[C]

So you're telling me the scene in season one of the Expanse when they're floating, fucking is bullshit?

[B]

Absolutely. I have more topic on that. I have more info on that.

[C]

What a bummer.

[B]

On the topic of fluids, note that they also pool in space. So sweat and everything else secreted during one's labor of love won't drip away. It'll collect in little zero gravity pools, turning the rest of the body into a weirdly wet wonderland.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

I mean, last but not least, you have to be tightly tethered to your lover in space so that each thrust doesn't send you to the opposite end of the sex shuttle.

[A]

The lo.

[B]

Sure. The laws of Newtonian physics go bye bye. And it's been space hookup. Thankfully there's a get up for that. It's called a Quote2 suit and it's designed for two cosmic travelers intent on sharing that most intimate of space hugs.

[C]

What about just like an insert?

[A]

It does. I mean, that's what I just hold on to the.

[B]

Exactly.

[C]

That's fine.

[A]

The 2 suit is real.

[B]

It's been tested in zero gravity. I don't know how.

[A]

That's what I want to know about. Who tested it and where?

[B]

I think just like clothed, like dry humping, probably. To test like if the thrust would Sort of like work or not work. But.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So that's some information I learned. I also learned about aromas in space because this was a concern for me.

[C]

Of course.

[A]

Right.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Because they're, like, commenting on Mark Watney and stuff like that. I'm like, but how do astronauts who've been up in space forever smell? Do you guys want some information on what it smells like up there? Okay. This is from a different article. An astronaut said, I was touring the Harris County Jail in Texas and there's this room that smells like space station. Combination of antiseptic, garbage and body odor. Also the absence of gravity. Body smells such as farts tend to linger.

[A]

Oh. Because they're. They aren't like, dissipated. Yeah.

[B]

UK astronaut Tim Peak said the International Space Station smell is like, quote, barbecue that's gone wrong. So none of this sounds sexy to me. So I think that Sebastian Stan and Kate Mara maybe waited until they got back to Earth.

[A]

That's a long time.

[B]

They're definitely.

[A]

No question. Once they.

[C]

I think it's kind of established in the book that they're fucking already. It's like the rest of the crew knows they're hooking up. I don't think it's possible that they're. Well, I guess everybody's very close. Are they fucking on Mars before the storm comes? They've only been there. SOL 18.

[A]

Those days seem pretty.

[C]

The bunks were right near each other. But could they have gone to a rover?

[B]

Oh, fucking in the rover.

[A]

I don't know. Those days seem, like, pretty regimented.

[C]

That's true. They have a lot of experiments to run. Yeah. To then get to the point where they're like, don't bring any of that back.

[A]

It's too heavy. But they do also because the potatoes come from a container that says Thanksgiving. Thanksgiving. So they, like, do have some recreational. Or at least like me.

[B]

So wait till everyone gets drunk on Thanksgiving and then go the rover. Is that exactly.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

I guess so. Plenty of space.

[A]

I think they're definitely fucking on the way back. Just because it's what you're going to really like.

[B]

Beth Johansson, right? Like super nerd, Right?

[C]

Yes.

[B]

So I feel like if Beth Johansson, super nerd, gets within a whiff of Sebastian Stan, it's like, let's go. Right.

[C]

For sure.

[B]

For sure. Let's make it happen.

[C]

I guess this is where we should mention that when Mark opens all of their shit, he comments specifically about Johansson. He's like, right. Whoa. So that's tough. I guess if we're factoring in how everybody is something to think about. But, like, isn't this equivalent to. Joe, what we've talked about before with, like, how do we make sense of people on Survivor when they're that filthy and, like, they're just like, in the woods and in the. I feel like you don't really smell

[B]

it anymore at a certain point.

[A]

Right.

[C]

Wouldn't it be the same thing here? I mean, hundreds of days on the Hermes, they're like, isn't that.

[A]

I. I was thinking about this while watching Hamnet, and I think about it as, like, generally in any kind of old time.

[B]

That's what the herbs are for.

[C]

They look very smelly in hamnet.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But they don't have plumbing.

[B]

That's why Agnes is constantly rolling rosemary.

[A]

Think about how bad it smelled.

[B]

Rosemary for remembrance and also for body odor.

[A]

Yeah. And they had one set of clothes.

[C]

Pretty gross. Yeah.

[A]

All right.

[B]

That's. That's the quote, unquote, reasonable discussion. This is Tier 2 Rapid Fire Martian morality slash survival test.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Would you have used your own shade to grow potatoes, Mallory Rubin?

[C]

No question. You have to have no choice. The question is, would I. Would I or any of us have thought of that? Because Mark Watney is a botanist, so this is his area of expertise. Would we have known to do this? I'm not so sure.

[A]

Well, you don't have to be a

[B]

botanist to know that, like, poop is fertilizer.

[C]

I know, but would you have thought to, like, slice up the potatoes and plant them? I don't know if I would have thought of that.

[B]

I will just say because potatoes, like, sprout on their own, you know, versus other things, like, yeah, maybe I would have gotten there. Would you use yours or anyone else's shit to grow potatoes? You have to put it all in

[C]

that bucket and rehydrate it and mix it up.

[A]

All of it. Listen, you guys, I deal with other humans shit literally every day.

[B]

Like, once you're a mom, this question is not even a tough one.

[A]

Been four years of daily, like, just hands on.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

My. My younger son had a blowout last night before bedtime. That was just. Would have made excellent fertilizer. But it was like a real, like, I had to. And it was like.

[B]

Right. Do you ever have, like, names, like, you know, between you and your husband, do you have, like, names for, like, a particular, like, style? Like, we used to say saag paneer for, like.

[A]

Yeah, but I know exactly what that is. Because you also learned to. To, like, you're checking it for signs of, like, health at this point. Yeah. And you notice the changes. You know, I. A day when I let my son eat only blueberries, which he would love to do, then it is suddenly like blueberry, which is honestly not as bad as some, some of the other poops.

[B]

This is like how I talked about how you need to set a text reminder to yourself that you ate beets like the next day. Yeah.

[A]

Or that you ate asparagus, you know, for the. But I'm always surprised every time I'm like, what's going on? So do I need to be worried about this? I don't know. I think I'm like really on the look for perimenopause. You know what I'm saying? I'm like, is this a sign? Is this a sign? And then I'm like, no, no, it's just that I had asparagus. So the thing is, is that my husband and I are so like quite literally in the shit right now that like, to talk about it at great length just makes it worse.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

So we cope by not really acknowledging it.

[B]

Oh, okay. Fair.

[A]

But it's like my. Both my sons love black beans. And every time I feed the black beans, I am just a little bit like, I know I'm gonna see this again. It's gonna be bad. And I know in like an interesting way. So. Uh huh.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

No.

[A]

Absolutely no problem.

[B]

So now that we've talked about beets and asparagus and black beans and other sort of vegetation, if you could grow anything in your someone else's shit and eat it for a year and a half, which crop would you shit farm? You get one condiment to go with it, but please be more cautious than Marcos with the ketchup ration.

[C]

Do we also get vice length to squeezing?

[B]

He was just like, he was just dolloping that stuff. And I was watching him like, and I had, remember, I had not remembered that he ran out of ketchup. And I was like, you're gonna run out of ketchup, buddy. And then he's just like grinding that potato into the Vicodin.

[C]

He rationed like the, the sweet and sour chicken and the meatloaf and everything, but the jelly beans strewn about recklessly and the ketchup.

[B]

So what are you, what are you growing? If you can grow one thing?

[C]

I would pick potatoes. You pick because I. I love potatoes. I love French fries. I love mashed potatoes. I love a baked potato, I love an au gratin. I love all sorts of food.

[B]

You think you're making, you're making potatoes

[A]

Au gratin on Mars. You got the.

[B]

I think I'm not making it past little time.

[C]

Soul 19.

[A]

And this is probably moot, but so in addition to, like, I like French fries and potato chips, but otherwise, I'm, like, not really into the potato chip. I mean, this is such a pain to prepare. I mean, this is the issue, like, it takes so much work, but to make.

[B]

Zapping them.

[C]

Zapping them and then biting them really quickly.

[B]

But so.

[A]

So here's the other question I had. And there are some other incidents in the Martian that preclude us from ever having to explore this.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

But the thing about just eating potatoes is don't you become incredibly constipated?

[C]

But I think this is one of the virtues of this plan is like,

[A]

it's binding, but you need the shit in order to keep growing your food. So don't we have a problem here?

[C]

They are probably on some sort of. I would expect, like, vitamin.

[B]

I'm sure he has laxatives in the habs.

[A]

Yeah, but listen, we all know that.

[C]

Can you imagine laxatives only?

[B]

Can you imagine space constipation?

[A]

Yeah, it's. No, I can't. Because we all know what travel is like. And then when there's no gravity. Speaking of.

[B]

So I'm just saying there's lots of

[A]

vitamins because all of those, like, here's your fiber supplement when you're traveling, they don't work. It's Colace only.

[B]

What are you.

[A]

If you are expecting right now, take it with you to the hospital. What are you.

[B]

What are you growing?

[A]

Avocado.

[B]

Avocado.

[C]

Which, like, I mean, I love an avocado butter.

[A]

Here's my major butterfly. It's a superfood. They always say it's like. Is the most complete food, but you

[C]

can't afford in this scenario to be picky about. Is this properly ripe?

[A]

Well, I think you would have time to game it out. It's one of those, I tell you.

[B]

Yeah. I don't mind a slightly crunchy avocado. It's not the end of the world.

[A]

I don't prefer that to an old.

[C]

Much like a banana.

[A]

But so here's the other thing. And this was inspired a little bit by Scent Help, the Sam Raimi movie starring Rachel McAdams. I haven't seen it where the avocado can also serve as a moisturizer.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Interesting Hair, skin, other things. She's using coconut. She's gotten more variety.

[B]

I think my favorite innovation that she does in that movie is when she makes her beautiful Sashimi plate and then she makes the sauce, which I think is just salt water.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

She's like, this is the soy sauce.

[C]

And I was like, shouldn't be ingesting that.

[B]

I don't know, it looks delicious to me.

[A]

But so you could eat the avocado. It's, you know, fats, fiber. Speaking of constipation.

[C]

But how many, how. I guess if you're rationing it, maybe it's appropriate. But that's a lot of avocado. I do love avocado.

[A]

It's a lot of avocado.

[B]

I've never hit my limit on avocado. Yeah, I think I have on potato. Interesting. My answer is Kim kale. I genuinely love kale.

[C]

I considered saying kale. I do love kale.

[A]

I think that would be like another stomach issue.

[C]

I agree.

[B]

That was why I didn't have too much fiber.

[C]

Too much swings too far in the other direction.

[A]

I just, I feel like how much

[C]

can that vacuum seal deal with?

[B]

My kale crops will be so bountiful is what I think.

[A]

And you know, and also, like, your tummy would hurt, as my 4 year old would put it. You know, I eat a lot of kale. I love kale too.

[B]

What is your one condiment that you would put with your avocado? Avocado kind of stands alone. But what would you.

[A]

I would also oil.

[B]

Some salt. I want olive oil for the kale.

[C]

They have the salt and pepper.

[A]

Olive oil for kale or lemon because it's. That's another growing.

[B]

But maybe they have bottles of lemon juice. You know what I mean?

[C]

Oh, interesting.

[B]

That's like subpar to a freshly squozen lemon, but like in a base.

[A]

And is there anything else I could use the lemon for? I mean, the lemon could also extend the life of the avocado to keep it from browning a little bit.

[C]

Smart. So smart.

[B]

Would you have violated orders to send the message about Mark Mallory Rubin? Of course.

[C]

Just like my Mitch Henderson. You have to do it. I think that the connection between Mitch and the Hermes crew, like the way he sends them the video message first before the secret message, before the rich Pronell maneuver instructions. When he sends the video message to tell them the mark is live. And he's like, they can see him. It's a video message. He's like, hi, it's Mitch Henderson. I'm like, is this like a full first name, last name, like introduction? Like they've never interacted and we're supposed to believe that he would risk his career and that part Is a little off to me. Obviously you have to get the message to the Hermes crew and allow them to make the decision. That is correct. And Teddy is operating from a position of public and corporate coward.

[B]

I want more dead bodies in space.

[C]

He's afraid, which makes sense. But you got to do what Mitch does and get the message to them and let them be in control of their own fate and make the decision. Would fire you and then you'd be out.

[B]

And then Mallory would take your.

[C]

Your access card, then you'd be gone.

[B]

What are you doing?

[C]

But then he got golfing.

[B]

Yeah, I agree.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Also like, I don't. I don't like listening to authorities, so fuck them.

[B]

Let's start with Amanda. Amanda, could you perform surgery on yourself?

[A]

This is. This is the hardest part. I mean he's clearly. He knows what to do. He's been trained in some sort of emergency surgery. And I have not been trained as a podcaster.

[B]

You've not been trained.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

In any of it.

[C]

We should mention this by the way, not to go back to shit once more. And yeah. Yet they're all tra. This is part of like screening to can you hack it as an astronaut in space to go back to the right stuff. The famous iconic like balloon. The balloon sequence. And can Scott Glenn get to the bathroom in time? Right. Like they've got to be able to

[B]

say

[C]

I have like a gastrointestinal tract that is reliable and trusting and can like operate at this level of consistency. Or I'm in control to a certain extent. Right. So maybe the like concerns of mere mortals would not be a concern for Mark Watney in either direction. That's possible.

[A]

You mean constipation wise?

[B]

She's going back to the shit.

[A]

Okay. Yeah.

[B]

On the surgery.

[A]

Trained to prove that.

[C]

You mean like perform surgery?

[A]

Is this about fear and pain tolerance,

[B]

Fine motor skills and moments of distress.

[A]

Oh, I don't have great fine motor skills. But I do also think from a pain tolerance I wouldn't have fun. But yes, I could do it.

[C]

This is very much like the scene in the Nick when Clive.

[B]

Oh yeah.

[C]

Or in Lost.

[A]

Jack Shepherd.

[B]

Jack shepherd does a tissue.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I don't really feel like I. Scientifically. I guess now I've seen enough movies that I would know. I need to get the shrapnel out and then I need to keep it closed. I'm worried about sterilization.

[B]

That's stapling it.

[A]

He's not. Listen, I'm like, you know, sepsis, the punches, they don't show.

[C]

That is to numb, right?

[B]

Yes.

[C]

Is it also to dis 2035.

[B]

So it could be anything.

[C]

Yeah, I think I would be okay. Similar. I. I would actually be like, I'm gonna try.

[B]

This is where I die.

[C]

Pain tolerance. This is gonna be a question I asked.

[B]

How far do you last? How far do you last? I think I'd die.

[C]

You die right away. But on the operating table or because you were.

[B]

You didn't try try.

[C]

Like do you die because you don't attempt to get the shrapnel out or do you attempt and you're. You bleed out?

[B]

I attempt and I give myself doctor myself. I give myself an infection of some kind.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. I think I would.

[B]

I miss something and it's not.

[C]

That's my worry.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[C]

Or not even maybe missing something, but maybe just I'm afraid I'm gonna miss something. And so I continue

[B]

to. Oh, it becomes like a space madness thing.

[C]

The crevice of the wound. I'm like, surely something else is in there. You know, he has to.

[B]

Your mind is deteriorate and yeah, that

[C]

wouldn't be enough for me. I wouldn't be sold that I had gotten it all. And so at a certain point I would like. What about a vital organ fibers of

[B]

the suit that might have gone in there. Okay. Mallory, if Jessica Chastain only left behind one song instead of an entire library of disco music, which singular track do you think could carry you through a year and a half of isolation?

[C]

I. I guess I would want it to be a Bob Dylan song and not a disco song. That would be my dream.

[B]

And Bob has a lot of long ones.

[C]

Bob has a lot of long ones. I could just listen to like Visions of Johanna. You know, the time would pass. It would pass. I would love, you know, to be able to listen to. If you see her, say hello, which is like both a beautiful song and a story. That would be nice. But I actually think the song across my life that I have probably listened to the most times without ever tiring of including the most times in a row back in high school. Billy Joel. For the longest time I could listen to that song thousands of times in a row and never tire.

[B]

My acapella group sang that in college.

[C]

Sing it for me right now.

[A]

Which part were you.

[C]

If you said goodbye to me too.

[A]

No, no, this is great. May I. May I tell you a personal anecdote?

[B]

Please.

[A]

That can actually. Can actually top acapella group. So I was. Went to a progressive ish for Atlanta in The time period, elementary school that had the big school play every year was led. It went up to sixth grade, and so it was led by the sixth graders. And it was an adaptation of an opera or an operetta. I would say that some of the costuming and interpretation choices in those things were less progressive, but again, I'm 41.

[B]

So it was in the Mikado. Is that what you're saying?

[A]

You bet they did.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

But in fifth grade, the fifth graders, who were like the juniors, would get to write their own play based on one of the historical incredible. Not lessons, but units that you were doing throughout the year. And not only would you write the play and then star in it, do the sets, do the costumes or everything. It was very diy, but there was a musical. And so the songs were written, or in this case, new lyrics about the historical unit in question were set to fantastic. To lyrics. So our historical. Our chosen historical unit was called Digging below the surface. So it was Mesopotamia. And so the play was called Digging below the Surface.

[B]

Okay, great.

[A]

And it was about an archaeologist and then one of his very. His star, but not very respectful students who are on an archeological dig learning about Mesopotamia, Mesopotamia and themselves.

[C]

And you said it to Billy Joel's the longest time.

[B]

Well, like, ding. Below the surface, Dean. Below the surface. Like, spiritually.

[A]

The theme song, the opening and closing song. I will now sing the chorus for you.

[C]

Oh, great.

[A]

Oh, Mesopotamia. No, I can to God. It doesn't skin.

[C]

I love it. Can you give us some of the verses?

[A]

No, but all Mesopotamia. Mesopotamia has stayed with me for almost 35 years now. Also, by the way, I was the disrespectful student. Just so you know, lead. Lead role. Honestly could have guessed that.

[B]

Secondly, incredible. Chris Ryan has promised to sing on

[A]

this podcast and never have.

[B]

Yeah, Cowardly Amanda Robbins delivers.

[A]

Yeah. So now you could have both for the longest time and Mesopotamia.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Amanda, what's the one song that's keeping you? This was fairly what if instead it

[B]

is just, oh, Mesopotamia.

[A]

This is fairly random. But. So I disagree with Mark Watney. Disco music rules. If anything, her choices are a little, like, on the nose. Basic. Exact.

[C]

Exactly.

[A]

And we don't even get the full chorus of don't leave me this way, which is such a jam. It's the best song in this movie. But we recently introduced does it make

[B]

you think about Moulin Rouge?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Which we recently discussed.

[A]

So we recently introduced my son to Daft Punk because he's really into helmet guys. Speaking of Legos. And also the Mandalorian Yeah, of course. And the videos are, you know, some of the better YouTube content you can show a small child. So get lucky.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Daft Punk with Pharrell Williams and Nile Rogers. I think that I have probably listened to that song a thousand times, you know. Cause it's kind of always on. It's excellent. It also, like, doesn't really begin and end, so it could just like play forever. And that's just kind of my move. And I'd be bopping around. Love it, you know, growing avocados, living my best life.

[C]

What if you. What if you can only listen to one podcast? You know, you're stuck in the hab.

[A]

One episode or one podcast. I know what the episode is. It's JFK rewatchables. That's my comfort listen. I listen to it at least once a year, usually around Christmas when it was recorded.

[B]

Those holidays look to the left.

[A]

Guys being weirdos trying to solve the JFK assassination is why I love them.

[C]

And. And are you gonna sub it out moving forward for Bill, just without any warning, just saying to Sean and Chris, come over. Not gonna tell you why. And then he just says, These are the 50 most rewatched moments.

[A]

Number 16, Limitless. And then number one, Devil Wears Prada is. I. I always feel close to Bill.

[C]

That's why I thought it might be the new podcast.

[A]

That is my guy. That is why Bill is my number one forever.

[C]

Would Devil Wears Prada be the one movie that you. You picked? If you could watch one movie forever in the Hab and then the Rover and then on the Hermes.

[A]

I mean, it's probably the movie I like. Probably like build a movie that I've watched the most. What movie would make me.

[C]

Could we do? Could we smuggle in the whole trilogy?

[B]

I would say the Lord of the Rings trilogy.

[C]

If we can do an extended edition.

[B]

Yeah, extended edition. That'll get us through so many souls.

[C]

We have Kale, Baby potatoes, Kale and

[B]

Lord of the Rings.

[C]

Lord of the Rings extended edition.

[B]

I'm picking LCD sound system. All my friends. That's an eight minute song and I love it. Wow.

[A]

But it does. Does it make you really depressed? No, I feel like it's an amazing song, but I guess I also, I associate it with the Greenberg trailer, the Noah Baumbach, and guess what? I know, but I love Greenberg.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I think it's important to write letters letting people know how you feel. But I associate it with a young, grumpy, slightly on edge phase of my life, which was being in my late 20s.

[B]

So but I'm young and grumpy eternally. You know what I mean?

[C]

That's beautiful.

[A]

That's great.

[B]

With kale Malibu, would you have turned the Hermes around. And given up more years of your life to save Mark Watney?

[C]

No question.

[B]

What about to save Amanda Dobbins?

[C]

Without hesitation.

[B]

What about to save Joanna Robinson?

[C]

Are you kidding?

[B]

Of course. Amanda.

[A]

Here's the. Here's the thing.

[B]

I mean.

[A]

Yes, except I can't believe that they allow people with children to go on these missions.

[B]

This was my thing. We see Vogel with his kids.

[C]

Like, he's got a lot of them, too.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I guess. I guess originally it was only supposed to be what, like, they're adding 533 days.

[B]

A year and a half.

[C]

So it's a long.

[B]

So it's supposed to be a year almost time.

[A]

But the original one is. How long is the original mission?

[B]

The original Hermes mission? I'm not sure.

[C]

Well, and they. They are heading home early. So we're adding the extra time onto a shortened mission. Because the storm hits on soul 18. Mark wakes on soul 19. That's much less time.

[B]

And he says in the movie. How many souls. They were supposed to be there.

[C]

Yeah. Yes. Which I can't remember.

[A]

Yeah, 31. But they have 68 souls worth.

[C]

Right. The redundancy.

[A]

I'm just trying to understand. So how long are these people originally supposed to be away from their planet?

[B]

Well, I'm not a scientist. And I don't know how long it takes to get to Mars and back.

[A]

20, 35, is it?

[C]

I think, because we hear that the probe is going to take nine months to get there. The one that. The misfire. The initial Iris probe, I think. But there's also a lot of discussion throughout the film about, like, Earth and Mars are in the wrong position to be doing a launch. So obviously, obviously, that orbits the time based on where we are, as I understand it, not a scientist.

[A]

Like, I am thinking through how long I would allow my husband.

[B]

But I'm just saying, I think there. I mean, this is what first man is about to a certain degree. But, like, there are some people, I think, who just want to go to space.

[C]

Yes. Yay. Well, this has the. Their calculus has the extra element of it's not just the added time. And Lewis insists on the unanimity. Unanimous vote. Because of this. She's like, hey, you know, Martinez, like, we're military. We're gonna get court martialed. Everybody else. And again, this is like the men

[B]

in days of yore who just want to Be on the sea. And they're like.

[A]

They're like, my life I love.

[B]

My lady is the sea, and I have kids, but I don't really care.

[C]

Yeah, exactly. But, like, they have the. There's the question of, like, will they. You know, because Vogel has that line, like, it's going to be more than 900 days. I'm. I'm set, actually. I'm good. I don't need to come back if they don't let us come back. But there is this question of, like, you have become one of the people who has done something that only so many people in the history of the world, the history of mankind have done. And then what if you come back and you're like, you're in space jail. Like, that's all taken away from you. They have to weigh that aspect of it. The fact that it's so easy for them makes complete sense to me because they are a crew. They are a family. I love at the beginning, in that stretch that looks odd to us visually now we get to just hear the way they talk to each other, the way they joke. We get that. When Martinez and Watney finally are able to, like, message each other, there's the. You can. The authenticity of the relationships, but also, like, the friendship and the affection. Plus there's the guilt and the shame and the sense of duty. Leave no man behind. Right. So, frankly, not that they would have any reason to believe they could go back. And that's obviously why the entire Rich Purnell maneuver plotline exists. It has to be this, like, bold idea. And we can only, you know, the pro. There's only one pro. We got to pick one.

[A]

Yeah, we got a slingshot.

[B]

When they find out they're forever slingshotting.

[A]

Classic.

[C]

Apollo got into a slingshot.

[B]

Forever slingshotting.

[C]

You think that they should. When they found out Mark was alive, should they have been like, can we go back to get him?

[B]

Sure.

[C]

They have no bad ideas. In a brainstorm. David Jacoby ism. Hey, NASA. Any way we could go back to get him? They know that Hermes is meant for the entire Ares mission.

[A]

Right. But they.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But at that point, they don't have enough supplies.

[B]

No.

[C]

But should they have been like, hey, guys, any chance, just like everyone else on Earth is like, we're gonna try to think of every possible question and answer solution.

[B]

Stop using so much ketchup.

[C]

We gotta go back, have been like, here are some thoughts and ideas and questions. And then can any of the geniuses back home, like, maybe work on this a little Bit sort of interesting that that doesn't happen.

[A]

All right.

[B]

We covered music, we covered movies. Last question is, if there is, Mark is watching some Happy Days in. In on Mars. Is there one TV show that you would pick to sustain you for a year and a half?

[C]

The one that I. I mean, I. Obviously there are a lot of shows I never get tired of watching. Battlestar, Game of Thrones, you know, painful, though the last couple season. My answer for like, thing that feels the most satisfying to return to no matter how many times they do it is Lost. However, I wonder if that would be the best choice in this circumstance where you were stranded on.

[B]

When you're going full Russo yourself. I don't know.

[C]

It might be too much, but maybe could I find inspiration there?

[B]

But there's no space coconut. You know what I mean? There's no, like, jungle inspiration for you to translate onto.

[C]

What if I could find space, Smokey?

[B]

Okay. Keep things interesting meta. What are you watching in space?

[A]

I just went Gut instinct. The crown. At least the first five seasons.

[C]

It's just an incredible Dobbins.

[A]

Well, just first of all, immersive.

[B]

Not the season we cover for sure.

[A]

I said seasons one through five is a little borderline. But listen, if they just want to redo season six and recap, like, recast, we'll cover it. Re. Reconceptualize. I'd be open to it. I obviously watch any prequels that they want to make, but it's. It's really just. It's going to take you out of your current state.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Maybe.

[C]

Is a comedy a good idea?

[B]

I would do Schitt's Creek. That is like a. That's a really eternally. Like, I can always vibe out with Schitt's Creek.

[C]

All right. I'm going to do Shoresy Classic. Then I'm going to look around and there will be no one there to say, give your balls a tug too, and I'll realize how alone I am.

[B]

You can just say, I will. All right, last but not least, this is tier 3 bonus unhinged space round. This is a gift for Amanda Dobbins.

[A]

Totally. Right.

[B]

And this is just like we're pulling back the curtain to let you at home know that sometimes, not very often, but sometimes, Amanda will text us questions that Nox has about Star Wars.

[A]

Yeah. And specifically, I guess he does have some Star wars questions too, but sorry, I just have a notes app. No, no, no, no. Oh, my God. Three questions and. Yeah.

[C]

So give everyone a quick primer just how Nox's Relationship is.

[A]

My son is 4 years old and a very curious and wonderful kid.

[B]

And I just feel really honored when you text us.

[C]

I mean, not only honored that you text us, but particularly honored that you have. Knox is too young to listen to this podcast. I think lied to your child by telling him that we know the people who made this movie.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Because my son has.

[C]

You're going right to the source.

[A]

So he's not allowed to have characters at school. So he only knows about the pop culture that we give to him still. Because he's young and he goes to a preschool where you can't wear a Star wars shirt or whatever to school. So he. But he does know a lot about filmmaking. Because we're nerds.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

So he knows that there are directors of the movie, and he wants me to ask the directors of the movie and more specifically to email.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, interesting.

[A]

Because he's like, I'll text them. Yeah. And I said, I'm gonna text my friends who know the directors.

[B]

Great.

[C]

So.

[A]

Which I think is loose. So he asked a lot of questions. He saw the trailer for the Mandalorian and Grogu before Zootopia 2, a film that I thought stunk and, like, unnecessary.

[B]

This is, like, real Timothy Chalamet. Let me take a dig at opera ballet for no reason.

[A]

This is old news on the big. It's just, like, about patents and, like, propaganda.

[B]

Like, cool. So where are you at Hoppers?

[A]

We went together, and 25 minutes in, my son turned to me and was like, this is not Hoppers. Because he was promised an animal in the middle, but once the animals showed up. Yeah, it was very funny and great.

[C]

I haven't seen it yet. I can't wait. And Loaf.

[A]

I was into Loaf. Who's the Hopper? Who doesn't. Who's stoned all the time. Oh, so wonderful. Nox was really into the green baby to Grogo as he first saw him. And then I.

[B]

Does that count as one question? Answer ta.

[A]

His name is Grogo and he still calls him Grogo.

[C]

I love this. How did he meet Grogu? Because he doesn't watch the Mandalorian.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So then I told Sean Fennesee, my co host on the Big Picture and a close friend, that Nox really responded to the Mandalorian and Grogu trailer. And. And in. And this was right before Christmas, like, in came.

[C]

That was the first time he saw Grogu. Was in the trailer the first time.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

Oh, wow.

[A]

And so in came Toy Grogu for Christmas in his little ship. Which Nox calls a boat. And then over Christmas, we were like, okay, well, it was raining all the time. So then he got to watch the original Star wars, which he does not understand at all. And he calls It's Dark Vader and Blue Skywalker are the names. And I would say most of our Star wars content at this point is watching videos of John Williams conducting the Vienna Philharmonic playing the Star wars title, which is honestly one of the most amazing things I've ever seen, because all of these Viennese sounds incredible. The international musicians at this incredible. In the Via Vena Philharmonic are, like, so overcome with childlike wonder at getting to play the main title. There's a whole. They did a whole concert. I mean, John Williams does these all the time. But I really recommend the John Williams Vienna Philharmonic series. But. So he doesn't know anything except the trailer and A New Hope, which he's seen a few times.

[C]

Okay. He's only seen A New Hope of the. He didn't go Empire too soon for Empire, I think.

[A]

So he's still young.

[C]

And. And you haven't introduced him to Ewoks yet?

[B]

In general?

[A]

No. He doesn't know about Ewoks, and he doesn't really. He's not a big plot guy yet. Can't really, like, recap plots for me.

[C]

All the more reason to show him the Ewoks are so.

[A]

But he does have a sense of the mood of something.

[C]

There we go.

[A]

So I think, like, Empire Strikes Back will freak him out, but there's been more Grogu introduced into our lives entirely by Sean and. And then our friend Nick. And he knows that the movie's coming out in May.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And just every so often, randomly, he will ask me random questions about Grogu that I cannot answer.

[C]

Does he know that Uncle Chris has said on the public record he refuses to see?

[B]

That's right.

[A]

But I have corrected Chris on the public record that Chris will be taking Knox to see. And Chris came to Knox's fourth birthday party party, and Knox ran up to him, and the first. First thing he said was, does the Mandalorian have a face? Which is something I was able to answer. So that's not one of the questions that we'll be asking on this podcast.

[C]

I do like how big. I know that would have been an easy one. I do like how many times we see Pedro Pascal's face in the most recent trailer. Like, they're like, we know the joke. We know you're wondering if he's actually in this movie. Don't worry.

[B]

We got Pedro on set for this one.

[C]

We're going to show you, like, four different times where you're gonna see his face.

[B]

Smart.

[A]

Yeah. So here are the questions that I've written down on this notes app as he asks them.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Number one. And, like, his question is, does Grogu go to Earth?

[B]

No. No.

[A]

So. But I would like to extend it a little bit so that I can answer him.

[C]

He goes to many planets in the Mandalorian, though.

[A]

Sure.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Does Earth?

[B]

Earth does not exist in the timeline.

[A]

So it's a different timeline, It's a different galaxy.

[B]

It's a galaxy far, far away.

[A]

But that doesn't mean that Earth doesn't exist in our galaxy. It's a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away. But there are galaxies far, far away right now.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

How do you know that the Earth doesn't exist?

[C]

So a long running Star wars discussion point is like when Han says, see you in hell.

[B]

Right, Right, right, right.

[C]

They're like, but that's how we talk.

[B]

Right. You know, very meats back on the menu, boys.

[C]

Yes, exactly. This idea, this very, like, earthbound human turn of phrase and concept of. But Nox will not be seeing Earth at any point in Star Wars.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Would you prefer we give a different answer? So Nox can hope that someday Grogu will come here?

[A]

No, no, no.

[C]

Tell him about Mandalore.

[A]

But it's not like a multiverse thing. And even in the multiverse, I understand. I've read the credits. A great thing when we watch A New Hope is whether I'm allowed to read the credits. Allowed to him or not. Sometimes I am, sometimes I'm not. Also, one time it started, he said, mama, don't film me, because I have a lot of videos of him watching the beginning of Star Wars. He doesn't wanna be content. But it's a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away. But that doesn't mean that our guy. That doesn't exist.

[C]

I agree with you for sure. But Earth will not be featured.

[A]

So Earth is not featured in Star Wars. But it does.

[C]

It could.

[A]

It could exist.

[B]

It could exist.

[A]

And no one has shown any knowledge of the existence of Earth, correct?

[C]

No.

[A]

Okay, great.

[C]

Thank you.

[A]

I'll just let him know that it's in a different galaxy. He knows about galaxies because we checked out an encyclopedia, a space encyclopedia.

[C]

He doesn't need to worry about Earth. He needs to start learning about the Outer Rim. That's where he's gotta, like, really focus.

[A]

Why does the Mandalorian have A cape.

[C]

Oh, interesting.

[B]

A lot of them do. Yeah.

[A]

The most recent Mandalorian. Stuffed Mandalorian that we were given by Sean for his birthday.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Has a cape, and we don't know why. What does he use the cape for? He's not a superhero, I would say.

[C]

Isn't he?

[A]

Is he a knight? I mean, drawer. This is related, but Nox often refers to him as a knight.

[C]

Oh, interesting. Because it looks like he's wearing. Cause he's wearing the silver. Yeah.

[B]

Like a suit of armor.

[A]

And I mean, this all comes from Boba Fett.

[C]

That's the thing.

[B]

And the thing with Boba Fett is, like, I remember them. I watched a documentary on this, and they were, like, designing Boba Fett and I, and there was, like, at one point, they, like, tied a towel around his, like, you know, just to, like, see how a cape would look. So I think it just came down to. This is not a great answer for Knox necessarily, but, like, came down to, like, how do we make the armor look cool and regal and, like, exciting? And that's the whole thing about Boba Fett is, like, famously, he looks so cool that people thought he was gonna be this huge, important character. And then, spoiler alert, he's not, though. I have some no's. Cause I would not put a cape anywhere near a jetpack.

[C]

This is the thing. Cause there are certain aspects of. I think that's exactly the right answer is, like, it's a party of the genuinely iconic, original costume from which all other Mandalorian designs stem.

[A]

Okay, so it's a fashion thing.

[C]

It's fashion. It's like, he's honest with me.

[A]

He understands.

[C]

Tell Knox he's dropping a fit. He gets that.

[A]

Knox understands that sometimes you just want to look chic as he's.

[C]

Exactly.

[B]

So. Okay, look at.

[C]

Wow. He says chic. Yeah.

[A]

We taught him to say that. So whenever I.

[C]

And Zach's.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

This is amazing.

[A]

So when you. When we dress up, he's like, mama, you look chic. It's great.

[B]

I love it.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

What an angel. I think that Joe is right that there are certain aspects of me what either Din Djarin or, like, a Mandalorian more generally would. Would. Would do and be engaging in. The jetpack is a great one that, like, the pairing with the cape feels impractical. However, I think there are other aspects where either the additional. The warmth that. That can provide you, you know, cozying up. You're out on a mission on a desert planet.

[B]

You don't think it's Warm in that armor.

[C]

I mean it's, it's fucking. I think it's gnarly in that armor.

[B]

It's boiling every time he takes his helmet off, he's like matted with sweat,

[C]

but you know, it can just like kind of wrap. He's got sometimes a satchel that Grogu's hiding in and then he's kind of like taking from him and hiding him. So there's kind of a practical.

[A]

What do you need to hide?

[B]

I think it's a swish and drama.

[C]

What you need to be warming.

[B]

Imagine flouncing out of a room without a cape.

[C]

Maybe you're like, I've got fucking whistling birds in my vambraces and I don't want anyone to know. And I can hide it for a second and then let me know if he wants to know about the vambrace.

[A]

I don't think he knows what that is yet.

[B]

Get back to it.

[A]

Yeah, and this one I have sent to you before, but I thought it was a pretty discussion topic and I really didn't know how to answer it as a age. Well, no, it's more essential. Is Grogu a human or an animal? And so I. Listen, let's talk about it and let's talk about how he's a being. Right, but how do you explain a being to a 4 year old? Because I found myself.

[C]

He's another race of being.

[A]

So you know, my first instinct, as I told you, he does not know you. He's a mammal. And I was like, well, that's not right. Because that's what I'm saying.

[B]

Yoda's not in the first.

[A]

And then Zach.

[C]

Maybe not, but he doesn't know about him.

[A]

He doesn't know about Yoda.

[C]

What about Chewbacca?

[A]

Yeah, he does, but he's not like super into Chewbacca. Okay, and also, how are you gonna. So this is the thing, because as soon as I said, well, he's a mammal. And I was like, I guess it's not really. And also, how am I gonna explain what a mammal is to you? Cause that's Earth centric. So then Zack was like, he's an alien. And I was kinda like, he's an ibs. I guess so, but for sure.

[C]

But an alien, again, he wouldn't say so.

[A]

Is very Earth centric. That's right. He's just. There is a different galaxy where there are all different types of.

[C]

That's why I'm saying being.

[B]

He's another different.

[A]

But then. So you came through with species and then you told me there was like,

[C]

he's part of the same species as Yoda and Yadiel, who like you could show not.

[B]

And I believe I said an accessory, which is.

[A]

But that's more of a screenwriting problem

[C]

calling and frankly outrageous.

[B]

On board with being for the first season. And since they have all he does is babble and coo.

[C]

He's a baby.

[B]

He's a pet.

[C]

He's a 50 year old baby. Well, first of all, I would say

[B]

that they weaponized him. You're saying they put a weapon on that baby?

[C]

Yeah. Also sure. He had the little dog.

[A]

I'm saying. That's what I'm saying.

[B]

If he's a baby, you're putting weapons on the baby.

[C]

He was training.

[A]

He was a foundling.

[B]

It's an animal.

[C]

No, you put a weapon on an animal.

[B]

Depends on the animal. Lasers on dolphins.

[A]

God.

[C]

I think that the simplest way to put it to Knox is armored bears. Well, I mean, you know, I love an armored bear. His dark materials hive always when Grogu ages.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

And I think frankly Star wars fans live in fear of this moment because it's so precious. When he babbles again Coups, he will speak.

[B]

He will speak in. Because they're like, wouldn't it be cute if Yoda was a baby?

[A]

True.

[B]

And now they're like, we're afraid to let this baby age. And so we're just keeping him in an arrested development of babbling and cooing.

[C]

He's in his early 50s. He's been through some trauma. I mean he's gonna. I would say he's got hundreds and hundreds of years of life ahead of him.

[A]

And I. And I brought. So listen, so I brought this home to my crazy. I kind of agree with both of you because I brought this alive to my 4 year old by you explained some of the timelines and I was like, you know what Noxi, he is about baby Yoda. I'm sorry, Grogu is about the same age in Yoda years is what I said. I said he's about the same age as your little brother Sai, who is 18 months.

[C]

I think he's more like Nox just

[A]

started cooperating, just stopped cooing and has some words. But he's going to in every way

[C]

in stealing macaroons from other kids.

[B]

Yeah, but those other people can speak and he's just babbling at cooing.

[A]

Cy is basically our pet. I love him so much and he has an incredible future. But I spend all of my time either Taking care of his shit. Trying to keep him from going into something that he's not supposed to go into. Running off. He's like. He's the king of middle mischief. And he can say the word rascal to you. Very natural.

[B]

That's a cool nickname.

[C]

King of mischief is a cool nickname.

[A]

And rascal's a great word. And I just have to, like, make sure that he's not causing problems at all times. So pet is not. Here's the not. And it's not derogatory.

[B]

You love a pet. Love pet. But here's the.

[A]

I love my son. Here's my pet. Right now. I just want everyone watching.

[C]

I think you're describing and listening to know that a baby. A young being.

[B]

Because here's why. Because sometimes when the plot doesn't want Grogu around for whatever they're doing, Din Djarin will just sort of, like, leave him at a closet.

[C]

Yes. Well, he used to do that a lot more in the olden days when he was.

[B]

Which I might do with a pet and I would not do with a baby.

[A]

I wouldn't leave a pet in a closet.

[B]

If it's a safe closet and they

[C]

have food and water much. He's bringing him with him.

[A]

There's no way there to monitor him.

[B]

Right.

[C]

But that was a very. That was like, really very season one.

[A]

Not a closet.

[C]

You know, that was very season one. Like, every episode needs somebody to babysit.

[B]

Grocery.

[C]

He's, you know, he's his. He's there in the sidecar. He's with him. Going through. Traversing the caverns in Mandalore. Like being adopted. Yeah.

[B]

And just being like, ah. Which is not a developed person being.

[C]

But he's young. He has to learn to speak still. That means he can't be a being.

[B]

Here's what I think is they're never

[C]

expressing himself all the time.

[B]

Barely.

[C]

All the time.

[B]

Barely.

[C]

Remember when he took the blue macaroons and ate them and then threw up on himself? And he was like, that was great.

[A]

That. That is very. Psy. Threw up for the first time recently. And he threw up. And then he was just like, what happened? I don't know what throwing up is.

[B]

Guess what? I've seen my cat do that. Yeah.

[A]

Again.

[C]

But I think cats.

[A]

Both sides have points.

[C]

Cats are people. Cats are, like, more advanced than many people are.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So Grogu is a pet. My hope is that Psy will develop because.

[B]

And I know that too.

[A]

I doubt that Grogu will ever be

[B]

allowed to develop because they do not want that character talking.

[C]

That's reasonable. Actually. I think that it's a risk to have him start speaking much like when they talk, though.

[A]

Like, they could. They. They just need to spend some more time around kids because, like, giving him one word and even when.

[B]

Like that. Like that little girl in Monsters, Inc. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I just think. I think Grogu special. Very special.

[A]

He's very. He works.

[B]

I will reconsider this. Of course I will reconsider this. When Dinjarin. When Grogu says din Djarin for the first time, or even daddy or dad, is that.

[C]

What about when he got his custom Rondell plate of armor?

[B]

I would say, don't armor a baby.

[A]

I think I put armor on a baby.

[B]

Don't put weapons on a baby. You can't say he's a baby and

[A]

then be like paintball. He's just a little baby.

[B]

But also they're putting armor and weapons on him.

[C]

Well, I think he's more like. I. I don't think he's a ba. He's a baby, but I think he's more like. He's in the, like. I don't know exactly what his age equivalent is, but when he went to the class with basically the elementary school age children, he obviously hadn't developed as far as they have. But I was like, this isn't crazy to me that he's here. They didn't put a bassinet in board.

[B]

He huffed a bunch of macaroons and vomited them.

[C]

He uses the Force and it exhausts him for a long time. Didn't. Didn't understand that he needed to feed him. And so Grogu had to end the life. He had to end the law.

[A]

His baby.

[C]

Exactly.

[A]

He ate that lady's babies.

[B]

That's something a pet would do.

[C]

It's also something a young child would do who's still learning. How many. How many times did I eat so many Cadbury Cream eggs?

[A]

I do that still.

[C]

I'm 39. God damn it.

[B]

All right, so that's your answer.

[A]

Okay. Thank you so much. I think he's, like, looking forward to hearing more from Knox is honestly the best. Amanda's like, what to do?

[B]

Apart the group chat, I'll bring it onto a microphone.

[C]

I'm delighted that Knox has discovered love for Star wars, that Alice has discovered a love for Star Wars.

[A]

It's a magical time. And it is interesting to. Because I am not a person who. I've seen them, but I don't know every.

[C]

Will you show him the animated television shows? I Think he'd love them?

[B]

No.

[A]

I have to tell you that I let him sit with me through a couple of the animated feature films nominated for Oscars.

[C]

I heard you talk about this on the pod.

[A]

Yeah, listen. And the worst movie watching experience of my life was watching Little Amelie or the character of Rain.

[B]

They're so depressing.

[A]

Well, that's not the problem. The problem is that my 4 year old was just like, who's that? What are they doing? What's that rain doing? What are they talking about? And it is like Jessie Buckley at the end of Hamnet when it's like, what's going on on the stage?

[B]

I can't go back to Hamnet Corner with. I can't go back back with you. I can't.

[A]

I was. I was. I cried talking about him. So you can't say I didn't give it my fair shot. But I just. I don't enjoy.

[B]

And that's okay.

[A]

That type of theater or film watching, once people are emotionally connected, it's great. Hey, mama. Why. Who's that guy?

[B]

In conclusion, Amanda is anti interstellar, anti hamnet pro. Digging below the surface. Yeah.

[A]

And Mesopotamia.

[B]

And Mesopotamia in general.

[A]

Mesopotamia.

[B]

That has been, as promised, a catechet unhinged episode that is ostensibly about the Martian.

[C]

I had a great time.

[B]

We will thank you so much to Amanda Dobbins for having me.

[A]

Thank you truly.

[B]

And what a delight. A luminous being if there ever was one.

[C]

Incredible. Will you come back?

[A]

We're going to talk about scheduling and traffic patterns, but with you two. Yeah. For you two podcast.

[C]

Yes. You're undecided on this physical location, but

[A]

being with both of you is a delight. Thank you for having me.

[B]

Thank you to Mallory Rubin.

[C]

Thank you to Joanna Robinson.

[B]

Thank you to Carlos Jaraboga. Thank you to the entire team here helping us today. Jake Cornett, Chris Wallers is here. Jomia dinner on the social. Or Jenna Ranga Powell holding all the pieces together.

[C]

Whole team.

[B]

We'll be back for a project. Hail Mary Defog.

[C]

Oh, my God, I can't wait.

[B]

With Andy Weir who sat right here.

[A]

He was in studio.

[C]

In studio.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

See you then. Bye.

[C]

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