'The Vampire Lestat’ Episode 2 Deep Dive

Summary

House of R Episode Summary

‘The Vampire Lestat’ – Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive

Hosts: Mallory Rubin & Joanna Robinson
Air Date: June 16, 2026
Podcast: House of R, The Ringer

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Overview of the Episode

In this episode, Mallory Rubin and Joanna Robinson deliver their trademark, detail-obsessed "deep dive" into Episode 2 of AMC’s The Vampire Lestat (season 3). The pair dissect everything from the episode’s structural and budgetary challenges to its meta-textual storytelling, exploring the character arcs, narrative themes, and cultural references within both Anne Rice’s source material and the show’s unique adaptation.

Before diving into the episode analysis, Mallory and Joanna share major podcast and event announcements, respond to listener feedback, and analyze the show’s increasingly bold story choices and aesthetic swings. The tone is lively, nerdy, irreverent, and full of affectionate ribbing.

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Episode Structure & Key Discussion Points

1. Announcements & Housekeeping (02:27–08:12)

• Schedules for Vampire Lestat weekly coverage and House of the Dragon recaps.
• Major announcement: House of R Night at Oriole Park at Camden Yards, including a live show and Mallory throwing out the first pitch.
  • Quote (Mallory, 04:36): “Orioles.com House of R. You will be able to find the special event ticket for our pregame live pod and the in game watch along at the Pure Wager Pavilion. Come hang with us… I’m throwing the first pitch.”
• Amusing banter about baseball prowess, custom jerseys, and game day snacks.

2. Listener Feedback & Vamp(Irony) Discourse (08:12–21:16)

• Reactions to "Disclosure Day" episode: mixed bag of responses.
• Listeners confirm AMC actually manufactured “vampons” as show merch, a reference to an “insane” scene in Anne Rice’s Memnock the Devil (“Lestat pauses mid coitus to consume the menstrual blood…” - Joanna, 10:06).
• Fun digression into Stuart Copeland’s spy lineage (The Police, World War II CIA parents).
• Noting meta pop culture references in the show, e.g., Madonna’s Truth or Dare, The Phantom of the Opera.
• Debating whether we’re seeing the “real Lestat” this season or simply different subjective versions (“...we’re not watching the real Lestat. We’re watching Lestat’s Lestat…” – listener Jessa, 13:57).
• Highlighting the show’s fixation on unreliable narrators, point of view, and the blending of subjective memory with performance.

3. Main Episode Review: Structure, Critiques, and Highlights (21:16–44:46)

a) Flashbacks & Budget Woes (21:27–29:50)

• Both hosts found the flashbacks visually and narratively rough:
  • “Genuinely some of the worst [wigs] I’ve ever seen.” (Joanna, 23:08)
  • The flashbacks suffer from “budgetary cuts”—sets and scenes cut or compressed.
• Jennifer Ehle’s accent for Gabriella described as “baffling… giving Count Chocula” (Jo, 24:09) and unfairly thick compared to other vampires' evolving accents.
• Gabriella’s characterization: frustration with historical gender roles, mother-son dynamics complicated by narcissism, grooming, and incest.
• Notable: The hosts are upfront about the incest storyline’s discomfort, connecting it to narcissism and emotional grooming (“...this is seismic narcissism…” – Mallory, 46:43).

b) The Wolf Hunt – Trauma & Transformation

• Sam Reid’s performance praised for evoking Lestat’s sense of loss after the wolf attack.
  • “Just my dog, like, that whole delivery, I thought was a really beautiful way to connect to the core of the loss…” (Joanna, 47:49)
• The show plays with the idea that Lestat is an unreliable narrator—recounting misery that he in part engineered.

c) Modern Timeline – The Band and Their Dynamics (50:36–63:04)

• The band scenes highlighted as lively, layered, and sharply written (overlapping Altmanesque dialogue).
• Expansion of minor characters (Christine, Salamander, Tough Cookie).
  • Christine, the band's lawyer, gets standout moments:
    • “Can perform what most metropolitan draining systems only dream of. That’s from a later scene, but I just … lean all the way in.”
  • Salamander’s unexpected comic relief.
• Tension over band member Alex quitting after learning the truth about Lestat.
• The “band meeting” set piece is repeatedly praised for both comedic and narrative momentum.

d) The Louis & Daniel Segments (78:14–92:11)

• Critical take: The show feels “on another level” when Jacob Anderson appears as Louis.
• Telepathic dialogue between Daniel and Louis called out for nuance and performance quality.
• The emotional resonance of seeing Louis’s perspective on Lestat’s annotated book and their lingering, painful connection.
  • Notable line: “Why is Louis trying to hurt me?” (from Lestat’s annotation, 91:28)
• Meta discussion on point of view and how each season plays with unreliable storytelling.

e) Other Noteworthy Moments

• The Talamaska’s machinations: Justin Kirk’s ridiculous accent is embraced as intentionally weird and fun.
• “Real Rashid” (character glow-up noted).
• On the narrative purpose of “The Great Conversion” and building threat of Akasha.

4. Meta Themes and Adaptational Choices

• Ongoing exploration of the different lenses (Lestat’s vs. Louis’s vs. Daniel’s POVs).
• Discussion of major adaptation changes:
  • In the book, Lestat does not kill his family—here he and Gabriella do, partly as a sign of Gabriella’s greater amorality.
  • The series is blending material from Vampire Lestat, Queen of the Damned, and more.
• Reflecting on Anne Rice’s recurring themes: queer-coded identities, breaking free from societal limitations, trauma, and the quest for love and belonging.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On the Show’s Tone and Narrative Playfulness

• “This is seismic narcissism... If you’re saying the thing I see in your face is my face. So I want to fuck you. That makes sense to me with these two characters, with these personalities.” – Mallory Rubin, 46:43

• “Do you think it's a good defense of how little someone means to you if you have the exact count of days that you lived before you met them?” – Joanna, 60:44

• “Tough Cookie. Come on, House of Our. Do you guys play baseball, like, in Twilight? is hysterical. Just genuinely hysterical.” – Joanna, 56:47

On Adaptation and Budget

• “...something we could have all told just by the wigs themselves. Honestly, the wigs are always the tell.” – Joanna, 23:06

• “They look like cave people. They look like Neanderthals.” – Joanna, 29:23

• “On the floating toward Louis front, that was... I was like, this looks pretty silly, but... I liked it.” – Mallory, 86:39

Baudelaire & Artistry

• “As an artist, your pain becomes art that other people feed on... So your pain becomes food for other people to consume.” – Joanna, 109:09 (re: Baudelaire’s poem/music adaptation).

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Timestamps for Major Segments

| Segment | Topic | Timestamp | |-------------------|------------------------------------------|------------------| | Announcements, MLB Night, Programming | 02:27–08:12 | | Listener/Bad Babies Mailbag | 08:12–21:16 | | Flashback & Budget Discussion | 21:16–29:50 | | Incest/Narcissism/Gabriella Analysis | 29:50–47:48 | | Wolf Hunt/Trauma | 47:48–50:36 | | Band Drama & Bus Scenes | 50:36–63:04 | | Telepathy, Louis/Daniel Angst | 78:14–92:11 | | Baudelaire/Lestat’s Song Meaning | 105:28–110:00 | | Book Spoilers/Big Picture | 110:09–115:18 |

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Additional Notes

• Spoilers are artfully managed; book spoilers and show speculation clearly signaled for listeners.
• Rich with pop culture callbacks (Game of Thrones, Phantom, Madonna, Twilight).
• Hosts bring morality, empathy, and humor to even the most taboo subject matter, never losing their love for the source material.

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For Further Viewing or Reading

• Anne Rice’s The Vampire Lestat, Queen of the Damned, and Memnock the Devil
• Discussed poetic works: Charles Baudelaire, especially “La Fontaine de Sang”
• Truth or Dare (Madonna Documentary), Twilight, Almost Famous
• House of R’s previous and upcoming deep dives into House of the Dragon, event coverage, etc.

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Closing

The hosts promise more Vampire Lestat coverage next week, a Dark Knight Rises episode, and House of the Dragon’s return. Listeners are encouraged to write in with questions, book insights, and Baudelaire interpretations.

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Listen if you love media criticism with nerdy specificity, dig literary analysis, or appreciate genre storytelling that’s not afraid to be weird, campy, and philosophical by turns.

Standout segment: the breakdown of meta-narrative subjectivity, unreliable narration, and what it means for a vampire to try (and fail) to grapple with the source of their suffering.

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Contact: hobbitsanddragonsmail.com
Event info: orioles.com/houseofar (for House of R Night at Camden Yards)

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Transcript

[Ad]

Foreign.

[Mallory Rubin]

Hello.

[Jordan Robinson]

Welcome back to another list stat episode of House of R. I'm Jordan Robinson and we. Excuse me. It's Mallory Rubin.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, the little we. Homie. Are you enjoying this exclusive fan experience?

[Jordan Robinson]

I think you know I am. Hello. This is the Vampire Lestat, episode two. Mallory's wearing normal clothes. I have become more unhinged. And this is what you can expect from our season of coverage of the Vampire list. Can I see you through these glasses? Not really, but we're gonna do our

[Mallory Rubin]

best commitment to content and to your deep and abiding passion for Lestat and for vampire lore in general. The question is, and it's on everyone's mind, will you for the finale do the entire podcast in fangs?

[Jordan Robinson]

We'll see. I did a trial run of it for our D and D campaign that we did, and there were some issues,

[Mallory Rubin]

but you have a few weeks to

[Jordan Robinson]

file them down to refine the process. You'll be able to see the fangs in the thumbnail, but for now, it's not part of podcasting experience. We're going to get to a fangless yet very bloody and vampirey deep dive into episode two. Plus a very exciting announcement right after this.

[Mallory Rubin]

This episode of House of R is presented to you by target. For 30 years, Pokemon has shown that adventures are better together. And Target is calling all trainers to the celebration.

[Jordan Robinson]

That's because there's something for every era of fan in the Pokemon in Target limited time collection.

[Mallory Rubin]

Thought you found them all after the first drop. Think again.

[Jordan Robinson]

Drop 2 just landed. Featuring life size Pokemon puzzles and an instant print digital camera.

[Mallory Rubin]

The entire collection is in store and online, so check it out now.

[Jordan Robinson]

Explore [e-mail] this episode is brought to you by Weathertech.

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[Jordan Robinson]

Okay, quick program reminders to justify the purchase of this coat. We will be covering the vampire Lestat every single week. Yes, this is episode two. We've got five more weeks to go. Very exciting. We've got another Nolan episode that we are recording tomorrow. We were trying to keep the guest a secret, but I guess the Midnight Boys just dropped it on their pods. So, Eric Voss, unless something happens, our pal Erik Voss of New Rock Stars will be joining us.

[Mallory Rubin]

Crossover event.

[Jordan Robinson]

I know we're really, really excited for that. We've long wanted to have Eric on the podcast. And then House of the Dragon is here.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's time.

[Jordan Robinson]

It's time. Talk to Thrones.

[Mallory Rubin]

Can't wait.

[Jordan Robinson]

On Sunday night with CR and then the Deep Dives on Tuesday. And these Vampire Lestat episodes will be coming out in the middle of those is sort of the current plan.

[Mallory Rubin]

So, Supergirl around the corner, busy summer ahead. We're having a blast.

[Jordan Robinson]

That's not all we're doing this summer. Okay. We teased, we hinted, and now we can share. Mally Rubin is returning home to Baltimore and. And she's taking all of us with her.

[Mallory Rubin]

My wildest dreams are coming true. House of Our night at Oriole park at Camden Yards. Folks, we can officially announce I will repeat House of Our night at Oriole park at Camden Yards this summer, Thursday, August 20, against the New York Yankees. House of Our night at Oreo park at Camden Yards.

[Jordan Robinson]

So join us.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Jordan Robinson]

We're doing a pregame live show.

[Mallory Rubin]

That's right.

[Jordan Robinson]

And then you can hang out with us.

[Mallory Rubin]

You can.

[Jordan Robinson]

In the Pure Wager Pavilion during the game to watch the O's take on once again, we repeat, the New York Yankees. Have you heard of them? Once. Yeah. So when are tickets going on sale?

[Mallory Rubin]

Thanks for asking. Tickets go on sale tomorrow, Tuesday, June 16, 10am Eastern out here. That's 7am Pacific, as I understand it. Get online. We're going to have the information on social on the at House of Our Pod handles. You'll be able to find it there. Orioles.com HouseOfAR we have our own URL.

[Jordan Robinson]

We have our own URL.

[Mallory Rubin]

This is nuts. Orioles.com House of R. You will be able to find the special event ticket for our pregame live pod and the in game watch along at the Pure Wager Pavilion. Come hang with us. And guess what? There's another little special treat because I'm throwing the first pitch.

[Jordan Robinson]

Yeah. This wasn't in the copier, so I wasn't sure if we were announcing it, but Mallory is throwing out the first pitch of an Orioles game against, once again, the New York Yankees. Unbelievable. More importantly, the Baltimore Orioles.

[Mallory Rubin]

That's right.

[Jordan Robinson]

Are you going to like, put some old bay in your mitt in order to sort of like, you know, don't they use some sticky stuff?

[Mallory Rubin]

Some sticky stuff. You know, I think I'm It's. It's an open question. What pitch will I throw? Yeah, you know, will I be working out of a wind up? Uh, I. My main goals. Well, I don't know if I. If I have a slider. I mean, maybe like a knuckle curve. Okay, yeah, we'll see about that. Um, maybe just some high heat, perhaps a sweeper. That's the pitch of the moment. Uh, here are my main goals. Don't, like, just literally fall over.

[Jordan Robinson]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

And I think right up there, 1A, 1B is. I don't want to. I don't want to spike the ball directly into the ground.

[Jordan Robinson]

Now let's get a few feet in front of you. At least.

[Mallory Rubin]

I wanted to go aerial. You know, if I go 10ft wide, 50ft wide, that's fine. You know, do I have to be able to throw the ball 60ft? Not necessarily.

[Jordan Robinson]

Okay. It doesn't have to cross over the top of home plate, but maybe, hopefully,

[Mallory Rubin]

like, at least I'm not expecting my ball. That my first pitch should be so

[Jordan Robinson]

in the zone longitude that we are worried about.

[Mallory Rubin]

I'm not going to be in the ABS challenge zone.

[Jordan Robinson]

No, I don't think maybe.

[Mallory Rubin]

But I have a couple months of training ahead, ahead of me, so who knows?

[Jordan Robinson]

So again, you've been saying this for a couple months. How good training.

[Mallory Rubin]

I purchased a glove, as you know. You did, in my home land of Baltimore. Felt appropriate. Got a little kind of like foam training ball. Been, you know, just kind of working on some mechanics, getting the arm limber, and asked Adam the other day, I said, man, I think my arm strength is like, a lot better than I anticipated. How far was that throw? And he got out of tape, measured everything, and he looked at me and he said, 10ft. So I think I have a ways to go, but that's okay.

[Jordan Robinson]

But aren't you allowed to throw it, like, close? Aren't you allowed to inch?

[Mallory Rubin]

You don't have to stand on the mat. You don't have to stand. But, like, maybe I will. Okay, you know what? It's all about the fun and the joy of the experience. The first pitch is like the highlight of a lifetime. You know what else is the highlight of a lifetime? Getting to do a podcast at Oriole park at Camden Yards and then getting to do a watch along with the bad babies.

[Jordan Robinson]

I know.

[Mallory Rubin]

During a baseball game. During an O's game.

[Jordan Robinson]

Come hang out with us August 20th.

[Mallory Rubin]

Sharing this with you.

[Jordan Robinson]

I know.

[Mallory Rubin]

The number one sports fan in my life.

[Jordan Robinson]

No one knows more about baseball than I do. Incredible. Orioles.com Houseofar when you last took me to an Orioles game, which was in Oakland, California a couple years ago, did you imagine the next time we watched an Orioles game together it would be house of our night at Camden Yards and you would be throwing out the first pitch.

[Mallory Rubin]

Didn't occur to me to be honest.

[Jordan Robinson]

Are you going to get, are we getting like maybe you might get custom jersey names on them.

[Mallory Rubin]

I, I would, I would, I would anticipate jerseys. I think the you start planning out your, your in game meal, get you some boogs, barbecue, you know, a little lemonade, cotton candy, soft serve.

[Jordan Robinson]

So if you want cake.

[Mallory Rubin]

Okay.

[Jordan Robinson]

If you want to get a stomachache. Sounds, sounds wonderful. Watch Mallory explain all of baseball to me which people did at the Oakland A stadium last time we went to a game together. Join us.

[Mallory Rubin]

Join us.

[Jordan Robinson]

Tickets go on sale again tomorrow, June 16, Tuesday 10am Eastern, 7am Pacific orioles.com

[Mallory Rubin]

Houseofar pregame pod in game. Watch along. Come hang.

[Jordan Robinson]

Okay, I think we did it.

[Mallory Rubin]

Fantastic. Oh my gosh, what a treat. What a treat. Surreal.

[Jordan Robinson]

A summer starting with the vampire Lestat for Pour moi.

[Mallory Rubin]

Indeed.

[Jordan Robinson]

And ending with an Orioles game for Mallory. It's unbelievable.

[Mallory Rubin]

It really is.

[Jordan Robinson]

It's our year. House of our Summer Spoiler warning. Yes, informed by our knowledge of the book, the vampire Lestat and Queen of the Dam and some stuff that I've heard about from other Anne Rice books, et cetera, et cetera. Informed by my knowledge.

[Mallory Rubin]

That's right. I have no knowledge.

[Jordan Robinson]

Well, you knew something big just by Googling last week. So you know what things you have gleaned from the Internet, etc, Google her character name.

[Mallory Rubin]

And there it was.

[Jordan Robinson]

There they were, the spoilers. Okay, but we're not going to get into like hardcore book spoiler territory until a very special section at the end. You will hear a sound cue or if you're watching the video, there's a fun little animation that will play. But we will be very, very clear about what we are doing here. Should we start with our opening snapshot?

[Mallory Rubin]

Let's do.

[Jordan Robinson]

All right. So great. Robust. Honestly, the Bhad Bhabies are dialed into the vampire Lestat and that's very exciting. We also got a lot of people emailing in about their disclosure day thoughts because we had asked the bad babies after we did our disclosure day podcast at the end of last week sort of if they enjoyed it. You know what? True to form of the Internet, a mixed bag. Yeah, a whole spectrum of people. Some people loved it, some people couldn't Stand it. And then there's some people who, like, I think us are like sort of more in the in between spot between those two stances. But thank you so much for writing in about that. And also about vampons. Several people emailed to let us know that vampons, which was a great joke in episode one, is an ongoing thing with AMC and. And this television series because I guess they actually like, had them. Sold them perhaps on the AMC store. Had them at various, like, premiere parties.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. Sold them for, like, use or for like putting on your shelf as a joke.

[Jordan Robinson]

I think they were just tampons that

[Mallory Rubin]

had like special labels.

[Jordan Robinson]

Yeah. Special packaging on it. Fun, fun merch. Use merch you can use. And we love that.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, there you go. Very practical.

[Jordan Robinson]

It's also a reference to an insane scene in the book Memnock the Devil, where I'm just going to spoil this. Lestat pauses mid coitus to consume the menstrual blood of the lady that he is hooking up with. Very special stuff, Anne Rice. Very, very special thanks to all of you who emailed me about it.

[Mallory Rubin]

Fantastic. Great stuff.

[Jordan Robinson]

Thanks, Anne Rice. All right. Alexander wrote in to say in the opening scene of Detroit, she wrote, I half expected the auctioneer to say a papier mache musical box shout out lot 665. That's a fan of the opera reference. And I agree. Like, I was thinking the same thing. I just didn't want to go, like, I'm already so vampire nerdy. Do I need to go musical theater nerdy at the same time? But here we are.

[Mallory Rubin]

Be your fullest self.

[Jordan Robinson]

Always the fan of the opera musical starts with an auction about a character who is like deceased and you know, and takes you, then takes you back in time. And so this sort of very dramatic, you know, and that's when like, you know, chandelier and all that sort of stuff like that. So like to have open with these auction house. Very, very campy, very Andrew Lloyd Weber. Very Lestat. I. I love this as a potential reference, but. Yeah, lot 665. All right. Malcolm wrote in to let us know that the joke last week, the. The story that Christine told. Yeah, about Stuart Copeland, member of the police in a. In a Kufi with Emma. Like, et cetera, et cetera. Let us know that Stuart Copeland's father, Miles, was a spy during World War II and a founding member of the CIA. And his mother was a spy too. Does this movie exist? I would watch it like a husband and wife founding members of the CIA team Because of this, Stuart Copeland, rockstar, grew up in Cairo until he's five years old, at which point the family moved to Beirut until he's 12. In short, of all the rock stars to wander in on a UN peacekeeper in Mogadishu with a kufi and ammo, Stuart Copeland makes perhaps the most sense. In fact, it's possible that the writers are even suggesting in this alternate universe that Copeland continued in the family business spycraft. So interesting.

[Mallory Rubin]

Are they by extension suggesting that everyone in the CIA is a vampire?

[Jordan Robinson]

Why? Not great. Not great. I don't know that I want those

[Mallory Rubin]

CIA to be immortals.

[Jordan Robinson]

Vampire Spire sounds great.

[Mallory Rubin]

Would be very cool. I mean, obviously it would limit, unless you were a day walker, what you could get done in more traditional business hours.

[Jordan Robinson]

Nighttime spying only. How much does James Bond get done during the day? Really? Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Let's check in with Jackson Lamb.

[Jordan Robinson]

Yes.

[Mallory Rubin]

And the Slow Horses. Mostly at noodle bars during the day.

[Jordan Robinson]

I mean, Gary Ullman, iconic cinematic vampire.

[Mallory Rubin]

That's right. Of course.

[Jordan Robinson]

All right. Baxter rode into something. I really should have picked up the. They make this truthful and daring reference to Daniel's doc and backstage, like, this is obviously a reference to Madonna's Truth or Dare documentary. Have you seen this documentary?

[Mallory Rubin]

No.

[Jordan Robinson]

Incredible, Incredible piece of 90s ephemera Madonna truth or Dare backstage tour stuff. Watching her. I should send you the clip of when Kevin Costner comes backstage the Truth or Dare tour, because he is, like, so earnest and telling Madonna how much he loved her show.

[Mallory Rubin]

I bet.

[Jordan Robinson]

And she thinks he is such, you know, and he's wearing, like, classic 90s Costner, like, dad jeans and all sorts of stuff like that looks. You know, you'll love him. He looks so handsome, but he walks away. And she's just basically like, what a fucking dweeb. What a square. What a nerd, this guy. It's really funny. I love it. There's also a reference in that episode to, like, with less Warren Beatty about the documentary. So this is, like, obviously a Madonna

[Mallory Rubin]

reference crossover event with Bandsplain. You know, get Yassi in here during the Madonna month.

[Jordan Robinson]

Absolutely. Yossi will come in costume. I feel like this is kind of inspired by Yossi leaning all the way in on the Madonna photo shoot.

[Mallory Rubin]

You know what I mean?

[Jordan Robinson]

Yossi is an inspiration to all of us. And I think for that, I quite agree.

[Mallory Rubin]

All right.

[Jordan Robinson]

Jessa wrote in to say, very reasonably, I think I wanted to push back on your comment that we're seeing the quote, real Lestat this season. I'd argue that the Reunion with Louis at the end of season two is still the only time we've seen the, quote, real Lestat, because the only time he has existed in the objective lens of the show in season one and two or in Daniel Armand and Louis point of view, et cetera, et cetera. But the entirety of season three, with the exception of the prologue and arguably the few black and white shots we see of Daniel's doc, exists within Lestat's subjective lens, within the framing device of the failures. So we're not watching the real Lestat. We're watching Lestat. Lestat's Lestat and Daniel. Sorry, Dan and Louis and Armand and Gabriella. So I think Armand, especially Jacob Anderson, talked about this in the scene in this episode, in episode two, in the legal negotiation scene when Louis is being, like, a real asshole. Jacob is like. And I loved it. But, like, Jacob is like, I kind of lean into the idea that this is Lucille idea of Louis. And so I would present sort of the most dickish version of that interaction, the most tauntingly touching my new, you know, lover's arm and all this other stuff like that. It's like, how would Lestat remember this? And so in season two, especially when Louis was, like, imagining this, like, ghost Lestat that he imagined at the beginning of season two, and Sam Reed talked a lot about, like, who is Louise Lestat? And this is, like, who is Lestat's Louis that we're watching here, which I think is really fun.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. Yeah. I think that this is. That's fairly consistent with what we talked about last pod, that the different difference in we did.

[Jordan Robinson]

I think I made a sort of, like, we're seeing the real estate for the first time. And I kind of agree with our listener that that's not really true. But, yeah, you were definitely hammering the, like, unreliable narrator.

[Mallory Rubin]

And now we're getting his version of this. And also the idea of presenting as a showman in order to be able to speak your truth inherently kind of fits with the show's over interest in examining what you want people to understand about, like, your. Your truth and how. And it's. It's fun to get the different versions of it across time and circumstance.

[Jordan Robinson]

Absolutely. She also pointed out this when we were talking about Daniel Malloy as a vampire, and this idea of, you know, you said something like, daniel was made to be a vampire. And I said, this is his version of the hunt. He's on the hunt. She sent this passage from Queen of the Damned about sort of Daniel as a vampire. Quote, the building has been had been crawling with gentle humans who noticed not a thing as they'd stolen the clothes they now wore uniforms of the young and left by a broken door into an alley. Not my brothers and sisters anymore. The woods have always been filled with these soft doe eyed things. Their hearts beating for the arrow, the bullet, the lance. And now at last, I reveal my secret identity. I have always been the Huntsman. Ooh, so that's from the Devil's Minion, I think. Devil's Minion chapter from Queen of the Damned. But the first time she. Justice said, the first time I read that, I had to put the book down and stare at the woman all a while, which is. I love it. A great reaction. And last but not least, our listeners, Jessica and Suka and a couple other people in the comments were sort of addressing our question about this moment that Lestat has on stage before he drinks the drugged blood. But he had this sort of like epiphany moment or crisis moment, and we weren't really sure what the cause of that. What was the inspo for that? Right. So Jessica wrote in to say, I think it might have been him getting close to what he refers to as the, quote, golden moment that he would have with Nikki when they were young and very drunk. That moment when everything made sense and they were euphoric. I think, though I may be misremembering and I don't have the book here, and it was one of these golden moments that Lestat first conceives of the world as a quote. Savage Garden. Yes. That's where the band got the name. I didn't know that.

[Mallory Rubin]

I love it.

[Jordan Robinson]

His Savage Garden imagery certainly reminds me of his jungle snake language.

[Mallory Rubin]

Interesting.

[Jordan Robinson]

So shout out Chicka Cherry Cola. I mean always shout out.

[Mallory Rubin]

Formative song of our youth.

[Jordan Robinson]

I love that song. And. And Suka has this great interpretation, she says, in Detroit, Longface and Black Licorice are songs that Lestat wrote while still avoiding connecting with the humans around him and within himself. The lyrics are fake and the fans are okay with them, but not feeling it. Long Face. Long Face sucks. I feel really dumb that I like Long Face. It feels like everyone agrees that it sucks and the show agrees that it sucks. And I'm like, what a. What a banger. So maybe I have shit taste.

[Mallory Rubin]

You know, Music is personal.

[Jordan Robinson]

Longface sucks. He can't fill 800 suits. The moment he realizes he realized that letting Larry play what he wants and connecting with him means the music gets better and the fans also immediately react back. Something cracks open Muses ghosts from the past let in, and he's unable to stop them. We guess that from now on, Lestat will start writing music, song lyrics that will reveal bits and pieces of himself. Butterscotch Bitch. Butterscotch Bitch has lines that give clues of how hurt he is by Louis. And I think this is interesting to go back to what you were just talking about, thinking about that, about this idea of connection. Letting Larry, poor Patrick from Schitt's Creek, letting Larry actually, like, play his guitar versus getting on the tambourine. That's music as collaboration, not music as, like, dictated by Lestat. Right. So Lestat in communion with the world around him rather than in his own isolated space. And I like that as an idea of, like, if that pushes him towards more truthful music and more truthful storytelling through his music, then it sort of revisits that idea of, like, what it means to be truthful in your storytelling. And for, like, Lestat inside of this failures. Who knows how truthful he's being inside of this failures project. But, like, what is his music going to be revealing about him and his emotional journey that maybe even his own storytelling into the Dictaphone or whatever he's using? I doubt it's a Dictaphone. That would be great if it works. Do you know what I mean?

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, I like that. And it's interesting, too, to think of just the very organic evolution, like, how much of the initial desire to start crafting the songs and pursuing this rock star life was, like, an intentional agenda. This is what I can do and what I can say, and how. And how much is the organic desire to be able to express something, and how much is the melding of the two? But then what is the balance of those scales as he responds to different stimuli in real time? And then, of course, has, like, Gabriella back in his life now, or these moments with Louis inside of this episode. There's the, you know, in any aspect of life, and I imagine frontman of a rock band would fit as well. There's, like, what you intend to do and then what you find yourself doing.

[Jordan Robinson]

Sure.

[Mallory Rubin]

Right. So how much is Lestat ever in control of his own impulses, and how much is he guided by the pull of his heart toward?

[Jordan Robinson]

Definitely, as a podcaster, what do I intend to do and what do I wind up doing?

[Mallory Rubin]

I mean, there's a reason that we're so drawn to this beautiful man.

[Jordan Robinson]

We're pretty good at staying on script generally for House of R, but I don't know, when you show up on, like, the rewatchables and especially like when you're there with like Vanna Bill and stuff like that, what do you intend and what ends up happening? You have no control. You're not in the driver's seat there. So, you know. All right, so this is episode two, Toledo. Or as I imagine Lestat would say, toledo. I don't know why I said it so Spanishly. Okay. Directed by Craig Zist, who directed don't be afraid to set the tape. As we mentioned and the season premiere this year, written by Jonathan, I'm going to say Cheniseros and Kevin Hannah could be any kind of pronunciation for that last name. But great writing, Jonathan Mallory Rubin, did you like this episode of Television?

[Mallory Rubin]

I did. I didn't like it as much as episode one, actually. I think that this had my favorite scenes of the season so far. The boardroom scene, which, like a rare thing where you could see a pretty sizable chunk of something in trailers and then you get it and it's like not only nada. Oh, well, I've seen this already. But just like the ultimate kind of euphoric, transcendent high. That scene was electric. And there were a couple other really good scenes in the present day timeline of the episode. The flashbacks. Like, I didn't love. Didn't love.

[Jordan Robinson]

Me neither.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Jordan Robinson]

Tough for me who loves a period drama. So I also preferred episode one. But for people who are sort of disoriented and confused by episode one, this is a much more linear. Even though we do get it's more traditional flashback structure and a more linear forward movement of the present day story. So hopefully that is less difficult for people to follow. I thought the flashbacks were. I love this show, but I will always be honest on this microphone and I will say I thought the flashbacks were tough, visually. Very tough. And then sort of like narratively they're zooming through a lot of stuff. They're really truncating the flashback stuff inside this episode and potentially going forward. Everything that I've heard from Adam Moskovitz, one of the writers and producers on the show, and Roland Jones, the showrunner, is that, I mean, Roland on the. On the official podcast just plainly said budgetary cuts. Yeah. And like something we could have all told just by the wigs themselves.

[Mallory Rubin]

Honestly, the wigs are always the tell.

[Jordan Robinson]

Like, genuinely some of the worst I've ever seen. Like, really astonishing stuff. I love this show. This was tough. Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Jordan Robinson]

So, you know, visually, you know, he was talking about how like they had to set everything basically in that one room. Room and they couldn't, like, do the theater troupe stuff that happens in flashback or do the monastery stuff that happens in flashback, because they just had to, like, then they had to just, like, say it instead. And so they're just, like, stuck, like, doing exposition at the dining room table with $2 and a hot dog to spend on the wig budget. And then Jennifer Ehley is doing an insane accent.

[Mallory Rubin]

I have been very eager to discuss this with you because I'm like, my beloved Jennifer Ehley. Like, what is.

[Jordan Robinson]

What am I missing? Lizzie Bennet. Like, we love the 90s Pride and Prejudice. She is an icon, a queen, sacred text. And I think her performance is actually,

[Mallory Rubin]

like, performance is great.

[Jordan Robinson]

The accent's insane.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's giving Count Chocula.

[Jordan Robinson]

It does not sound like anyone who has ever been to Italy, let alone. And I speak, like, a very little bit of Italian, but let alone when she starts speaking Italian, I'm just like, literally, what is that? And, like, you know, no one has ever said that. Sam Reid's French accent is very accurate for French, by the way of Australia. And I think for all the vampires who have lived for centuries, you know, like, their accents can kind of get, you know, and we'll get to, like, Justin Kirk and what he's doing, which is actually genuinely very entertaining. But the accent choice that Jennifer Ehle and et al have made for Gabriella here.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Jordan Robinson]

First of all, they changed. You know, they made her Italian. She's French in the book. They made her Italian for some reason. And the only reason I could think of was, like, maybe she thought she could do a better Italian accent. But, like, okay, is that better, boy?

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. If.

[Jordan Robinson]

If this was the result of the Italian accent. If they're like, we're going to try an Italian accent, and if this is the result, I do not understand why they wouldn't. I love this show. Why they wouldn't, in the modern day, have her super tone it down.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, because, like, right, a bit of a Wanda Maximoff evolution of accent over time.

[Jordan Robinson]

Louis accent, from his, like, you know, original New Orleans accent to what he sounds like in the present. Armand has also gone through, like, an accent transformation. Like, it makes a lot of sense for a vampire who's lived hundreds of years to sort of like, somewhat lose their original accent as they have existed in the world. But hers is, as, you know, thick as Bolognese as it ever was. And it's a baffling choice, honestly. Like, really strange to me.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, it's weird. I didn't know that about the French in The book. So I wonder then if the choice to go Italian here, because we have that moment then later playing piano in the present day after murdering. Yeah, exactly. Like one more difference between mother and father and the sides of the family and the home and the choice Lestat made. And obviously, one of the interesting things in that element is that he really comes out Team France in that one. Right. Which is like. And you couple that with the. Oh, I seem to be quite jealous of Louis, who I'm looking back at during the concert and then looking at a photo on myself.

[Jordan Robinson]

Well, she does shit about Claudia.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes, exactly.

[Jordan Robinson]

So, like, that felt a very little

[Mallory Rubin]

bit of a wedge in that moment in a couple of respects. So maybe if that's part of the reason. That's interesting.

[Jordan Robinson]

But, yeah, I think the.

[Mallory Rubin]

I was surprised when Italy was invoked because I was like, is this supposed to be almost like Transylvanian cartoon vampire energy? Like, on purpose? But then I guess not. So that the wigs, the concentrated setting, moving through time, but I think those are all contributing elements of a very heightened tone that I think often in the show works beautifully, but didn't quite end this. But for me, it was more the. Like that as a way to then give us, as you said, the exposition dump of moving us really rapidly through time of these key phases of Lestat's life. So then you get to a sequence of, like, the recurring cabbage bit. You know, the cabbages, the cabbages, the cabbages. And I'm like, I can tell.

[Jordan Robinson]

Cabbages, cabbages.

[Mallory Rubin]

I can tell that dad and the brothers who have lived, you know, not in the graveyard. I could tell they suck. Right? They're not helping the villagers who come to beg for their aid. They're. We'll get to some of the other stuff that we know from. From the canon. Obviously, these are terrible people, but I'm like, they kind of all seem awful. Like, is Gabriella supposed to seem like a winning personality to me in this stretch? Yeah.

[Jordan Robinson]

No, I don't think she is.

[Mallory Rubin]

So then when they viciously murder them, I'm curious where the show thinks we're supposed to be. I understand why Gabriella wants it. I was like, I guess I have enough in those 15 minutes. It's like a third of the episode to get us there for Lestat. But, yeah, it didn't quite have the, like. I totally understand this character's backstory, which is a thing that we've been longing for.

[Jordan Robinson]

Right. And especially, like, unfortunately, when you compare. And again, I don't know how sizable the budgetary cuts were. For this season or how much they felt they had to, like, allocate for the concert scenes or that kind of thing. If it's like a reallocation or if it's a generally like, hey, we poured all this money into season one and two and in season three, you guys have less money to work with. I could see that AMC just sort of like resizing their investment or something like that. But when you compare it to how the introduction we get to Louis family in New Orleans and his relationship with his brother and his sister and his mother and how nuanced that is and how that unfurls over several episodes and how you understand Louis distance from them. But they are not cartoons in their sort of, you know, issues with him. These, you know, Gabriella not, you know, excluded from this. Like, these feel like more like cartoons than they do people at this, at this table, you know, these various table scenes. And especially the father and the sons. I mean, justice for the wives who did not really deserve what they got, I thought. But like, the father and the sons, like, by the end of it, the wigs plus the makeup, they look like, like cave people. They look like Neanderthals. Like, what?

[Mallory Rubin]

Papa Lestat is in, like a real, like, viserys late in season one of Hot D kind of state. Just chunks of space.

[Jordan Robinson]

Yeah, just like a lot of. Okay, so you and I were not fans of that.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. I will say, though, the opening vo. The opening voiceover from Lestat at Epiphany. Yeah, I have no notes on that.

[Jordan Robinson]

No Ed Epiphany. And then the sort of like the penis. The boat is my penis and the ocean is my mother's crap. All this sort of stuff. That's wonderful. Absolutely wonderful. On that note, so let's go to our deep dive.

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[Mallory Rubin]

All new Sundays at 9, exclusively on AMC and AMC plus I am the Vampire Lestat. I'm a rock star now.

[Jordan Robinson]

I'm a murder killer. I'm a moon.

[Mallory Rubin]

From Anne Rice Rice's immortal universe comes what Vulture calls the most momentous event in fictional rock history.

[Jordan Robinson]

Thousands of fans love you. I want millions.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's my era. Anne rice is the Vampireless Dot. All new Sundays at 9, exclusively on AMC and AMC plus stream now.

[Jordan Robinson]

Okay, so is it like Auvers. Auvers, Something like that? I do not speak French very well. 1772 We've already mentioned a couple of our issues here, but I really agree. I thought the opening was really sharp. There's a lot of really sharp. And here's the thing that has been true of every episode. All both episodes this season. Every time you rewatch it, you catch something else. And it is so rewarding in that way. And it can make it. There is this weird feeling you get watching these episodes because, you know, especially like later when, like, the band is having their argument, there is this very sort of Robert Altman esque, like, overlapping dialogue thing that they're doing here where it's just sort of like you really need to in the band argument scene, which I loved. And obviously we'll get to. I had to like, wonderful. I was just like hitting back on 15 seconds like every, you know, just to make sure I knew who was saying what. And also I didn't want to miss it because everything was so good, you know, same. And so like, you know, that happens. So the writing is as sharp as it ever is. And the opening here, this let's address the incest elephant in the room from the end of episode one. It's interesting to me. It's funny. And then it sort of recurs. Like Lestat throughout this episode is constantly sort of apologizing or explaining or being defensive about the choices that he and Gabriella are making. And we will talk about all of that and Lestat's discomfort with it. Like obvious palpable discomfort with it. And so as a character choice, I think it makes sense and it is interesting. This is his story also like the fact that Louis does not know what happened and no one, you know he's lying about who his mother is. But like by the time the failures comes out, everybody knows, right? Yeah, you know, that's what he said at the end of last week's episode. So this is like a big secret for him. And by the time the failures came out, his secret has been exposed. So that's something we can sort of like look forward to. But like, so character wise, it makes sense to me. On a narrative front. Does it ever feel, you know, we are quite accustomed to incest heavy television shows having covered various Thrones properties. Yeah. The constant apologizing for it. Does it feel like the show feels like it needs to apologize for it or does it feel like Lestat feels like he needs to apologize for it?

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, interesting question. I think maybe a little bit of like, I don't have the same sense that you do for maybe what people would have been expecting on this front based on the source material and the text. But I think what these flashbacks, you know, we'll go through the different ages of Lestat that we get in the different phases. But once we get to the wolf killing and the salving of the wounds and even some stuff before that, I think what is undeniable is that these two wanted to fuck each other long before they were vampires. So I left episode one. One of the things we talked, talked about last week was this question of

[Jordan Robinson]

like, did this predate vampirism?

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. Is part of the explanation that we will get. It's okay if a mom and son fuck if they're vampires because you have a different relationship to your personhood, your past, et cetera.

[Jordan Robinson]

It's different for vampires, as Lestat Vassat says.

[Mallory Rubin]

But that's kind of the key, right? Because he's saying it's different for vampires. But this episode shows us that they had this pull toward each other long before that.

[Jordan Robinson]

Yeah. Here. So here's my interpretation.

[Mallory Rubin]

Let's talk about it.

[Jordan Robinson]

Here's my interpretation and maybe I'm being like overly generous to Lestat, but I feel like there is clear discomfort from him, you know, inside of this episode of the modern storyline. When she was like, you know, I came and came and came, like, he looks uncomfortable. And he's like, hey, let's just not do this. How about we don't do this? What do you say?

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah,

[Jordan Robinson]

here's my psychoanalysis of this.

[Mallory Rubin]

Let's have it.

[Jordan Robinson]

There is no clear indication in the book that they like definitely were sexually attracted to each Other before they returned. There are various phrases that are like, somewhat charged, like, she aroused my curiosity. Gabrielle, I said, having never called her that outside of some of my very private thoughts. Uncommon intimacy between them. When he talks about her coming into his room after the wolf hunt incident. My mother came quietly and almost stealthily into the room. And that whole monologue she gives him about how she really, really wants to fuck, like, that's straight from the book. While he's recovering from this, like, sort of wolf attack, she's like, you know what I want to do? So here's my. What's very clear, both the book and the show is that Lestat is desperate for her attention. For her attention and her affection because she's the only source of it inside of this home. Right. His. His father and his brothers suck. Right. And her attention is very conditional. And, you know, when he's getting beaten up by his brothers in an argument that, like, they were sort of in together.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Jordan Robinson]

She just completely abandons him inside of that. Right. Or we get that, like, horrib from his pov. Her just, like, not really giving a shit that he's being beat up. She goads him into the wolf hunt, you know. And his interpretation of that is that she was sending me to my death. Better to die by the wolves than become a cabbage. Yeah. Than, you know, languish here as a cabbage. So her attention and affection is the number one thing he wants. And she spells it out for him inside of this episode. She's like, you know what I want more than anything? I want to fight.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Jordan Robinson]

I want to fuck so many men. That's all I want to do.

[Mallory Rubin]

Very vivid dream.

[Jordan Robinson]

That's the message she gives him while, you know, like, inappropriately applying SAV to his body and stuff like that. Yes.

[Mallory Rubin]

A lot of thigh rubbing.

[Jordan Robinson]

So I think I feel that he gets the message of, like, this is the best way to have her attention. This is the best way I can capture his attention. And then, you know, like, when she's like, I belong to nobody's. Like, except for. I mean, devastating. Except for me. And silence. Right. Or, like, all the ways in which. Which in the modern day, like, this is still true for him in the modern day. He's like, are you staying? I only saw you twice in the last century. Like, you know, how can I keep your attention? How can I keep you here?

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Jordan Robinson]

And so that's my interpretation of, like. Because I do think he has, like, a palpable discomfort with the incest. She seems to have no issue with it and something that Hannah Moskovich, again, one of the. One of the writers, producers said is like, you know, basically, Gabriella comes to this crumbling castle. Auvergne is like, as far away as you can get from Paris, is what they say. It's a noble family in complete dissolution and disrepair. They're ignorant, they're uneducated. She loves her books. She is beautiful, she is fascinating, but she is just trapped here. And what she fashions Lestat into is a sort of, like, husband substitute because he's the only one in the family that she recognizes any spark inside of. And so she makes him into her sort of like. Like her accomplice. And her, you know, this is what that word Hannah used was like a husband. And so for Gabriella, I think it's always been there. And for Lestat, it's there, but it's rooted in something different from sexual desire. Do you know what I mean?

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, I don't think that was quite. That's compelling. I. I don't think that was quite my interpretation of it. I think the. I agree with you that it stems from a desire to be, like, seen and valued and centered in her life. That's for sure. Right. I think that the fact that the shame and the like fear of discovery is only present in the contemporary timeline tells me that that's more about. Introduces the possibility that that's more about his fear of what the other people he values would think than what he himself feels about it. Because, like, when he is. But I still think it's all a product of how you're weane. So if she's basically grooming him to be the mini husband, it's not necessarily. Though, again, the Ed epiphany part of it does also, and this is always interesting with Lestat in the show in general. Like, what is the connection to something that's, like, more mythic and eternal and universal and what is specific to you? So the question of, like, using characters in the show to say, hey, does every, like, young boy want to fuck his mom? Makes sense as something that the show is interested in. The story universe is interested in assessing young Lasat. I thought, I'll bring this back to the incest thing in a second. And we should reflect on how often we talk about incest here at House of Art.

[Jordan Robinson]

Something to consider, something to consider, to

[Mallory Rubin]

think about, something for all of the streamers out there to think about and something for us to think about here at home. But, like, okay, so you already know, you know, the dingy seat of the Leoncard family. A thousand years of aristocratic decline to, like, position us. You have this stunning chateau, but then this crumbling inhabiting family holding onto something that they no longer deserve or know how to preserve. Right. They're not caring for the land, caring for the people, et cetera. Then you have the kind of, you know, the man of the cloth is here to introduce this monastery idea, right?

[Jordan Robinson]

Education.

[Mallory Rubin]

The boy possesses an ability to envision the unseen, the holy. He would be well suited to the monastic house. We go to that into his dad's rage that Lestat was out playing with the theater troupe, the wagon full of actors. So you like all of these things about young Lestat on the is it nature, Is it nurture front that feel very present in the future with the character that we know and have come to love. Right? Like, there's this, like, philosophical mind, like, this inclination to think about the way the world works and the things that people are drawn to and why. You also have this, like, dramatic performance pull towards show. Yeah, right. And a mode of expression. So all of that is there. And then with his mom, when he was. When his brothers were. The stutter is here, right? And we see that as you. As you teased last week, we have, like, this stretch where he is pinned down. And I loved when he got, like, the stab wound into the grabs like a meat cutting implement and just stabs one of his shitty brother's. Great stuff. So he's kind of a fog is setting in as one of his brothers is choking him. And he looks over. This is teen Lestat at this point. She had a cold beauty like snow behind a thick, distorting wall of glass. And I grew hard by example. He definitely. I mean hard. Like, I grew stern and strong. And she.

[Jordan Robinson]

I don't think stern and strong. I think what he's saying is, like, callous. Callous by example.

[Mallory Rubin]

Absolutely. That as well.

[Jordan Robinson]

But also the language is.

[Mallory Rubin]

But I think both. I think stern and strong, too, because, like, go kill the wolves or die. Be a man, right?

[Jordan Robinson]

What.

[Mallory Rubin]

What were you. What. What could you be men. The way she shouts that, like, I think it's all in the mix. He's looking at her and he's got a boner and he wants to his mom, right? And then when she's salving the leg wound, her thigh. I don't think even as we cut hilariously to the maid who's like, this is pretty gnarly. What's up with these two? He's not like, stop, don't do it. And when she gets up to leave. He's like, come back and, like, give me a handy.

[Jordan Robinson]

I agree. I don't know that that's my interpretation of hard, though. I thought the wording was obviously intentionally double play. I definitely agree about her sobbing. His upper thigh and him being, like, higher again. I think it's just him basking. And, like, in the book, he describes how, like, when he gets injured by the wolf, it's the most attention she's ever paid to him. And he's just sort of, like, how devastating that I had to be, like, so injured. And that's the only time, you know, that she will, like, that I can, like, bask in her warmth. And it's also the time she chooses to tell him that she's dying.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Jordan Robinson]

You know, and it's just, like, horrible. I mean, Gabriella, the thing about Gabrielle, Gabriela, I'm not a fan of hers personally. Hot take. I think she sucks. A lot of people like her because. And it's sort of clear here, though not as clear as it is in the book, that, like, she's a woman who felt so frustrated by the limited roles of women in the time that she lived and found liberation inside of vampirism and so. And being able to break out of the gendered roles. And so she favors, in the modern storyline, in the books, men's clothing and keeps her hair short and all this sort of stuff like that. And so this idea of gender fluidity or gender roles. So the way in which she saw in Lestat a male version of herself and inside of this episode in the modern storyline, when they're coming up with their fake backstory of how they met, you know, it's like, we were wearing the same thing and I saw myself in you and all this sort of stuff like that. So, like, is Jennifer Ely wearing, like, you know, blazers? Yes, but, like, it's less. It's so much less of the, like, sort of. I'm assuming the role of the man that I could. Was never allowed to be in the. In the 1770s. But when she says be a man, you know, she's just so frustrated.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's.

[Jordan Robinson]

It's very cersei. You know what I mean? Like, you should worn the dress and I the armor. You know what I mean? Like, I'm suited for this. And you're soft and useless. And so it's envy, it's gender identity. It's all this other stuff like that. And so, like, this idea of, you know, when you think about, like, Louis as a gay man of color in the Time that he lived in and the limitations and how vampirism allowed him to break out of that. For Gabrielle or Gabriella, for many readers, it's this sort of, like, this power that this woman finds inside of this world. But I find what she does with it, I mean, hard take. Repulsive. Like, she does groom her child, you know, and that's repulsive to me.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Jordan Robinson]

I'm gonna take that stand.

[Mallory Rubin]

Brave.

[Jordan Robinson]

Thanks.

[Mallory Rubin]

I agree. I think the other thing. I love the connection that you made to the Italy. You know, we are. We met at the. Took our masks off. It's. Oh, but this face. I saw my face in it cover story. Both because they fall back, as Lestat observes, so quickly into the rhythm of this shared yearning that they're trying to say, like, he's trying to say, we can't. We can't do this. And then there and back again. But the other thing is, like, the gender roles, the need for attention, some actual, like, Oedipal. Deep, deep sexual longing. All of it. The other thing that feels, I think, hard to ever use the word appropriate when talking about incest, but appropriate for Lestat, a character we know very well at this point and I think already fair to say, appropriate for Gabriella, a character I've just met. This is like seismic narcissism. Oh, right. If you're saying the thing I see my. Exactly. If you're saying the thing I see in your face is my face. So I want to you that. That makes sense to me with these

[Jordan Robinson]

two characters, with these personalities.

[Mallory Rubin]

And so for Lestat, too, the grooming, the choosing that I'm gonna make you my mini husband. Sick, wrong, awful. Him then being weaned to, like, crave that kind of attention in that form, even more horrible. But the, like, extra degree of. And the reason you want me to be that is because I remind you of you, is, in this perverse logic, like, an honor.

[Jordan Robinson]

Oh, absolutely.

[Mallory Rubin]

Right. So I understand why the show is doing it.

[Jordan Robinson]

It's uncomfortable.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Jordan Robinson]

But here we are on the Wolfhunt front. This is a very lengthy chapter inside of the book and a fairly famous chapter inside the book. It is, again, a truncated version. Sam Reid, in the official podcast, did have a funny moment where he was like. He was like, I insisted that I have a flail. He was like, lestat has a flail in the chapter. So I wanted to have a flail. Even though we don't get to see me use it because we don't get to see the actual, like, wolf fight. He's like, But I wanted to it to be there. And he's like. He's like. And I think you can. If you freeze it, you can barely see it. But it's there because I was excited about it.

[Mallory Rubin]

Anyway, great stuff.

[Jordan Robinson]

We get the non wolf killing scene. And I. I do think that though, given the limitations of what they showed us, I think Sam Reid's performance in the aftermath, talking about what happened to his horse and his dog, to me is the most evocative of like, that scene. Like, he talks about the. The dogs were puppies that his mother, like, allowed him to get. And they were like the only companionship he had. And he like, raised them from puppies. And, you know, his horse was also a gift from his mother. And it was like this very important thing to him. And so losing the dogs inside of this wolf hunt, losing his horse and having to actually, like, kill his own horse to put his horse out of its misery, Sabree has to deliver that, all of that into like one line. And when he talks about recovering, I really related to this as like a pet owner who has lost pets. He talks about crawling and wounded, crawling into bed, and the bed is so cold and empty. Cause he's used to sleeping with his dogs there and they're not there. And he's just sort of like, you know, that pain inside of the physical pain of the wounds, but like, that pain as well. And so I thought Sam Reese, like, you know, just my dog, like, that whole delivery, I thought was like a really beautiful way to connect to the core of the loss and the trauma of that event for him and his life.

[Mallory Rubin]

I thought the performance was great. I liked the way this sequence inside of the overall stretch of maybe rushed backstory, edited and cut in a very effective way. You know, the swing of the camera, the widening of the horror on his face as the wolf is jumping torto. On the dog front, though, I actually thought this was like a good, effective early primer for the. That he's full of shit. The pain is he sends the dog. So then he's like, so again, like, what is true, right? And what is the version of the thing that either he genuinely feels and believes to be true or is spinning for some sort of consumption? So, like, does he miss his dog and is the pain supreme? I'm sure the answer is yes and yes. This is a character who feels deeply and develops real attachments to the figures in his life who bring him warmth and comfort. He also is like. Like, go forward into the. I have gutted an animal to draw the wolf pack. And then I am sending my dog forward. Go in. And then he stands there as the yelps fill the screen. Like, what did he think was going to happen to that dog? He sent his dog to the death. And then he's like, my dog. So the guilt and shame and remorse and all that, and it's all like kind of. It's entwined. Right. But it's like, yeah, we should just always keep in mind when we're hearing him in his songs or whatever he

[Jordan Robinson]

says it's full of shit.

[Mallory Rubin]

Full of shit.

[Jordan Robinson]

Send us trigger to the brush, ultimately.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Jordan Robinson]

All right, let's talk about the band. You know, I will just say I do think book readers are a little like. Because the vampire Lestat is a book has this, like, intro that is, you know, the vampire Lestat. I am the vampire Lestat. And talking about waking up. And then it's like, almost all entirely flashback of, like, this is what happened in my life.

[Mallory Rubin]

Okay.

[Jordan Robinson]

How he's made Nikki like all these other people, blah, blah. And then you get this coda at the end. So that book is, like, almost entirely like a piece of historical fiction.

[Mallory Rubin]

Interesting.

[Jordan Robinson]

So I think book readers coming into the season are like, hey, man, we're getting just crumbs of what the book is. And then you've got all this other stuff that is a lot of it is additive or brought in from other books and stuff like that. And the reason that they've done it. And I understand why, as like, TV makers, they're like, we want to keep Daniel present. We want to keep Louis present. Presumably Armand, presumably Claudia. Like, all of these characters that you've come to know and love. We are sort of re engineering the plot. This is budgetary, but it's also just sort of like. Like, it's a TV show. Yeah. And, you know, if we were just doing the book, you wouldn't see Daniel at all. You wouldn't see Louis at all. And, like, I don't want a season of television without Jacob Anderson and Eric Boghossian. Like, I don't want it, you know? So, like, I think I understand it. And I also understand why people are sort of, like, bummed about not getting the adaptation that they were expecting, you know?

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. It's interesting because. Okay, so you have a line like, your father and your brother's bent with shame. Great stuff. Come down. You'll enjoy it. This is like the mob who's here for a second. Way to worship him.

[Jordan Robinson]

Yeah. It's a God.

[Mallory Rubin]

Good example, I think, of do we need to see Lestat in the past soaking up the adulation. No, but like, kind of.

[Jordan Robinson]

Right. What does human Lestat do with that?

[Mallory Rubin]

Exactly.

[Jordan Robinson]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Like, you know, the fact that this is something that even before he experiences it there, his mother knows that he would crave it and love it. Right. The fact that he has sought it in these other forms. I think things like that would be really beneficial. Season 2. Do we miss Lestat when he's not as present in the season? Sure. Is the show very creative and how to keep him in the mix until he's like, back in full?

[Jordan Robinson]

Right. The imaginary friend that is Lestat. Exactly.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's brilliant.

[Jordan Robinson]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

A lot of season two requires you to care about Santiago and the theater troupe to really level up your investment in Armando.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Which I did happily because it was so fucking good. Right. So by the time you're in that apartment with Armand and Daniel strapped to a chair, it's like the most riveting hour of the season.

[Jordan Robinson]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

So I think that I say that just because, like, I think that the impulse to keep Louis, Daniel, all these other figures in the mix makes complete sense. I wouldn't want them to be gone for long either. I think the show has proven it is capable of achieving that balancing act. I. And so maybe we still get that with Gabriella. That's entirely possible. Or the band, which those scenes have been good. So we are getting a version of that already with new figures. I mean, Christine, like, give her a spin off. I'm ready.

[Jordan Robinson]

I'm so ready.

[Mallory Rubin]

Let's talk about the icon, the legend,

[Jordan Robinson]

the band only meeting.

[Mallory Rubin]

Great stuff, great stuff.

[Jordan Robinson]

Which Larry yells at at one point.

[Mallory Rubin]

So good. Yeah.

[Jordan Robinson]

All right. So Lestat wakes up in the bus on the road to Toledo to the side of Daniel using the bus shower.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes. Also, he wakes up from his coffin on the bus. So when he later is like willful ignorance from all of you guys, I'm like, like, yeah. Wait, was he sleeping in a coffin on the bus the entire tour? And they really, like, you have super committed to the bit, my guy.

[Jordan Robinson]

Do you think the, the. The shower in the middle of the room is the only shower on the bus? We've seen two people use D and Daniel use.

[Mallory Rubin]

We got some real Daniel Tush cam there. Yeah, he was really going for it.

[Jordan Robinson]

Washington was.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, well, we, you know, we learn elsewhere. He. He didn't, you know, he. He didn't get the. The cloud gift. He didn't get the fire gift. He just got the low hanging balls gift. He wanted more So I got to, got to keep him clean. Is that the only shower on the bus? Great question. I think. It can't be. It seems impossible. And yet how much real estate on a tour bus can you devote to like indoor plumbing?

[Jordan Robinson]

I don't know. All right, so as you mentioned, Christina, the banner, arguing what they saw. And I'm sorry, I paused and wrote down every single line of the scene.

[Mallory Rubin]

I wrote down they were so good. I don't think an NDA gives you legal clearance for murders. The opener is when I knew this was gonna be special.

[Jordan Robinson]

Christine Caustic, wonderful at her job boning Lestat.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Jordan Robinson]

Can perform what most metropolitan draining systems only can only dream of. That's from a later scene, but I just crap like lean all the way in. Girl. I love Christine. Lawyer Christine.

[Mallory Rubin]

Incredible.

[Jordan Robinson]

And this is a huge expansion from the book. All like the band members and Christine are getting like a huge expansion for the book. And it is all really working for me. Salamander, reading the book, full of questions about our mom. Is this guy secretly the funniest person on the show?

[Mallory Rubin]

He's hysterical.

[Jordan Robinson]

Every single one of his asides in this. And just his delivery too is so funny. Inside of this scene.

[Mallory Rubin]

He's amazing. I'd like to be in a book club with him. Given his diligent note taking and propensity for follow up questions. I loved also when Lestat shifts after Alex is threatening to quit and then actually leaving. Lestat has the sequence where he's reading everybody's mind and telling them with some editorializing and tweaking of the truth.

[Jordan Robinson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

To suit his agenda. What they're all thinking about Alex. And then one of the things he says to Salamander is like, I make it a habit to never sleep with my bandmates. Which tells us that Salamander is looking at Lestat as he's thinking all these questions and like, can we fuck? Which like again, who among us? But it's just one more, just incredible bit on the Salamander front. A character who in episode one, I will repeat, was getting a blowjob in the background shot of a really crowded room.

[Jordan Robinson]

Lestat's face when Salamander calls le petit coup, the small cup.

[Mallory Rubin]

Incredible.

[Jordan Robinson]

Which is not what that means. The little sip. But he's just like incredible. Really funny. Also, also his face when it's like, when's the last time you talked to our. It's not just the. It's not just the lines in the scene which are all solid gold to me.

[Mallory Rubin]

Really great.

[Jordan Robinson]

It is like everyone's. But Sam Reed's performance in this is just, like, sensational.

[Mallory Rubin]

They were all really good. Like, even the way Larry with a little shutter is like the farm, you know? Like, that's like. Doesn't sound great. No, this was really, really, really good.

[Jordan Robinson]

Top Cookie has very reasonable Twilight questions, does a mean and fantastic impression of Lestat crooning Love 6. Learn Lovesick lyrics, calls Louis Lewis, and then explicates the black licorice lyrics in a way that filled me with pride. Tough Cookie. Come on, House of Our.

[Mallory Rubin]

Do you guys play baseball, like, in Twilight is hysterical. Just genuinely hysterical.

[Jordan Robinson]

On the official pod, they asked Sam Reid if they thought he would enjoy Twilight, if Lestat enjoyed Twilight. And he's like, yeah, I think he liked the glitter. I think he was into it.

[Mallory Rubin]

I think he liked the glitter. Incredible.

[Jordan Robinson]

All right, Farid, he's here. He lets us know about the Blood farm. I think Fareed's vibe, which is just very background but really making an impression on me, is really, really good.

[Mallory Rubin]

Key moments so far.

[Jordan Robinson]

And then Alex freaked the fuck out. You said it was a deer. As D E A R as any KFC night manager has a right to be.

[Mallory Rubin]

My favorite line of the episode.

[Jordan Robinson]

The writing on this show is insane. It is so unbelievable. So good.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Jordan Robinson]

Alex quits.

[Mallory Rubin]

Actually, my second favorite line of the episode.

[Jordan Robinson]

Okay, we'll come back to the boardroom, but Alex quits.

[Mallory Rubin]

He sure does. Yeah.

[Jordan Robinson]

How do you feel about that?

[Mallory Rubin]

It doesn't seem wise. You know, if I were Alex, I maybe would be a little more reluctant. Especially telepathically delivered direct from Lestat to me. Hey, you know, actually, that wasn't about you. It was about Larry. You're the most, like. You're the purest, most talented natural musician in this band, other than me. Take the time, take the space, breathe, reflect. Don't do any of these other things, though.

[Jordan Robinson]

Don't talk about me in your meetings.

[Mallory Rubin]

Talk about me in your meetings. Don't go to the cops. Like the not so subtle threat from Lestat of what would happen to Alex and the people that he loves if Alex missteps here. Seems like probably things aren't going to go well for Alex.

[Jordan Robinson]

Larry intrigued, but perhaps a bit wounded that Lestat did not kill that. That guy who buggled his sound check.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

That's right.

[Jordan Robinson]

Gabriella, going by Sophia now. And then, Daniel out and proud, asking Gabriella who her maker is in a way that makes Lestat a bit anxious, I think.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes, indeed, that's Daniel very much on

[Jordan Robinson]

the like, he's the hunter.

[Mallory Rubin]

He's the hunter on the. Lestat told Louis that she died of consumption. And the point you're making earlier about how he has lied about this, Daniel, you know, a journalist who I continue to have notes for, but a journalist

[Jordan Robinson]

smells the story from the word go

[Mallory Rubin]

here, knows that this is a person he needs to figure out more about. And even though he will say elsewhere in the episode, in a great moment, that about Louis, like, that's the story. He's the story. And we're like, daniel, crack.

[Jordan Robinson]

Same.

[Mallory Rubin]

Obviously, he knows that there's something to learn about, quote, unquote, air quote. Sophia here. And this connection to Lestat, that will be important. I like the way that there's, like a variance in degree of the way people are asking questions. Like. Like you said, like, salamander, book reader. He's really like, well, Armand's a daywalker, right? He's soaking up the lore already. Larry, who is drawn in a way that Lestat can suss out. Like, did you want me to actually kill that guy in Daegor? Are you kind of, like, annoyed? Is that what you hoped? Yeah. Has maybe a darkness in him, but he's also like, sorry, what the fuck is Akasha? You know, the way that there's like.

[Jordan Robinson]

He's just like, I don't know if Lestat's mentioned, but he has the blood of Akasha in him. I don't know if he's mentioned that

[Mallory Rubin]

a time or two, but he has

[Jordan Robinson]

the blood of Akasha.

[Mallory Rubin]

And the Twilight thing is hysterical because that's like. That actually is a question maybe that you would ask. If you were in a band in 2025 with a vampire and had watched vampire movies and a vampire was now in your band, you'd be like, do you play baseball? Does your skin glitter like that stuff? I like that everybody's asking questions and they're all very specific to who those people are. And Daniel's like, no, I have real questions to ask. Like, something is up for this woman.

[Jordan Robinson]

For this woman. Who is this woman? And then later, when they all leave and it is just the band in there and Lestat is, like, sort of watching Daniel talk to her outside. Like, he's just, like, uncomfy with the fact that Daniel is on. Is on the hunt here. Lestat, throughout this episode, is doing a horrible job of concealing, like, how obsessed he is with Louis. But I do think my favorite, most revealing line is, I live 54,554 days before I met Louis De Pont d'.

[Mallory Rubin]

Lac.

[Jordan Robinson]

Did you count the days that you've existed before you. You met me?

[Mallory Rubin]

I don't recognize time before you were in my life. I'm. I'm the opposite of this. Do you think it's a good defense

[Jordan Robinson]

of how little someone means to you if you have the exact count of days that you lived before you met them?

[Mallory Rubin]

It's a real telling on yourself moment from Lestat here. But I loved that. It's great, obviously. It's like, as Louis is about to return more full into the episode, really great. I love, too, though. Like, you know, we get that Alex is like. He kills people. We're people. And Lestat says so. Was I right? No vampire is born a vampire. Makes sense in an episode where we're glimpsing his past history. Makes sense as we think about Gabriella and her conversion as well. Louis will ask Daniel, like, hey, how's it. Yeah, how's it going?

[Jordan Robinson]

How you doing?

[Mallory Rubin]

You know, how you doing? He's like, I understand vampire loneliness now, right? But also, like, these potential, you know, great conversion recurring through line now and a beat that has come up many times. How many of the people in this band are about to become vampires? Like, I don't know the answer to that, but I presume someone.

[Jordan Robinson]

Which one do you most want to see as a vampire?

[Mallory Rubin]

I think Larry strikes me as. I would be inclined to say Salamander, would be the most likely to say me, but Larry seems maybe the most likely because he's the least secure, right? So he's the most likely, I think, to want the, like, the level of the power, the power boost of being a vampire. But, like, this is part of a human.

[Jordan Robinson]

I think he would be the best vampire hat.

[Mallory Rubin]

She'd be amazing.

[Jordan Robinson]

Big fan.

[Mallory Rubin]

She'd be amazing. She and Salamander would both be a blast. Jury's out on Larry and Alex on the good hang front. But, you know, keeping account that you could only maintain if you were a vampire in terms of the sheer volume of days. But it's stemming from such a human impulse of, like, it is so apparent to everybody, no matter how long or how well they've known you, that all of this is about this one person who you love and are obsessed with and are not ready to let go of. And it is also truly true that you had an entire life before that and people who meant something to you and, like, part of a breakup or any sort of, like, shift in status in a relationship that's been central to your life. I mean, people Deal with that stuff differently. But often it's a little bit of the constant yo yoing internally of like. The thing I want more than anything is to be back with this person. And also I need to like prove to myself and everyone else that I don't need them at all and I'm a full person without them and I was before and I can be again. So. So like that was a great way to give us that in miniature with a very comedic exact count.

[Jordan Robinson]

Excuse me.

[Mallory Rubin]

Because this, this was great.

[Jordan Robinson]

Gabriella fucking with the wee homie. Hysterical, which surround me constantly. Have you seen the minions ones, like running around? They're ones that are like made to look like a minion because it's like a promo thing. Los Angeles is just like lousy with these delivery robots anyway.

[Mallory Rubin]

They get stuck a lot.

[Jordan Robinson]

We talked a lot about the scene already. I just do want to note that Lestat's famous wolf killer coats cloak, which we've seen already in season two, is his red thing with a wolf pelt on it. And that's like made from the wolves that he killed. He's wearing this sort of like modern day version of it in these scenes with Gabriella. He's got this sort of like wolf killer jacket that he's wearing. It looks incredible.

[Mallory Rubin]

I mean, as always, his fits rule, just as yours do. Two of the greats when it comes to does not breathe very well. Some sort of over coat.

[Jordan Robinson]

Companionship without the come.

[Mallory Rubin]

Companionship without the come. And I came and came and came. Just really incredible stuff from Gabriella in this stretch. What when she says to him, you know, after he says, I like, how long are you staying? I only saw you twice last century. It's a reasonable question to ask. And she's like, you know, show me Wilmington food courts. I want to play cornhole. How did this place, and by extension this person, right on the Louis jealousy and intrigue front enthrall my son? Like, right. She wants to understand why you've been here, why he's been here for so long. Is there any authentic desire to understand that? Or is it purely from a place of like, why anywhere but where I am?

[Jordan Robinson]

Yeah, well, I don't think she wants him with her.

[Mallory Rubin]

Right. But she wants him to want to be with her.

[Jordan Robinson]

To be with her. Yeah. Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

So gnarly.

[Jordan Robinson]

Gross.

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All right.

[Jordan Robinson]

Toledo. Yeah, the second most depressing city in the US Tough. I googled this. This depression stat is true. But, but also there's like so many of these rankings. You could find almost any mid sized city on one of these lists. So according to whomst. But how do you feel about the hands on the edge of the frame approach to skirting the budget on the cloud gift thing? I kind of liked it, actually.

[Mallory Rubin]

I was, I didn't mind it. Willing to accept it. I thought the, you know, the voiceover in the stretch was so good. It's like a lullaby. Everything we're hearing from the time in

[Jordan Robinson]

the last corner of a glass building. A group of building glass salesmen were closing a sale of substantial amount of glass sold to a company in a yet to be tariff Germany.

[Mallory Rubin]

Really great. Obviously so good. And you know, they're about to like follow the potential marks through this night. The seafood tower, chubs, et cetera. As the list of contenders to kill narrows down. We also got Gabriella saying the worst reveal themselves through time and Negroni. And I'd like to ask Amanda Dobbins formally if she cares to comment as the world's leading Negroni enthusiast. But yeah, you know, the like, okay, you can like the hands and you can sort of kind of pick up the reflection of their passing forms in this glass office building. Building. Fine.

[Jordan Robinson]

It's fine. I think it's fine.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's fine.

[Jordan Robinson]

Yeah. So the glass corner of a glass building. And also. And we watched as the remaining items on the menu marinated themselves in the pull ravaged sweat of sex. Positive sex, cynical sex, stipulated dancing. I mean, I'm sorry, I think the writing of the show is some of the best shit that has ever existed. You mentioned this fairy tale aspect. I forgot to talk about this in the flashback. But like I was really zeroing in on this idea of lista and especially in the book, he has more siblings who are alive, but no matter what, he's the youngest son. And I was thinking a lot about this fairy tale archetype of the youngest son. How in a fairy tale there's usually three sons. There's the eldest brother, middle brother, youngest son. Sometimes it's more than that, but they're always unworthy. And then the youngest son is the one who's worthy. So I was digging into where did that come from and why is it true? And I was reading some sort of of like scholarly papers about this. And as far as they can tell, you know, in the work that has been done with like folklore and fairy tale, because this is across like multiple cultures, that this archetype is true. It's an almost like. Because the youngest son never inherits. Right, right. And, and that's the thing is like, you know, the eldest Always inherits. And like for the older sons, there's usually something a living of some kind. And the youngest son is just like on your own kid, you know, sort of thing. And so, so this idea that like, it's almost like a populist, it's almost democratic thing of like the one who isn't really part of the aristocracy, the one who's like closest to the people, is the one who's gonna be like more pure spirit and noble of heart. And I'm not saying Lestat is like compared to his like knuckle dragger brothers. Yes, but like, but what is this dark fairy tale that we are experiencing? And how does you know Lestat, who will be chosen for the dark gift and all this sort of like what perverted, twisted storyteller are we watching that the youngest son who usually meets like an enchantress who bestows, you know, upon him gifts and stuff like that, is a, you know, is going to be turned into a vampire. Like, you know what? How is that interacting with our ideas of what a fairy tale is? And how does Lestat think about his own making in that way? Is it a gift? Is it a curse? What is it at the end of

[Mallory Rubin]

the day, you know, Did Lestat as the youngest son ever shave his head, pretend to be a stable boy, become a squire at attorney? It's hard not to think about that. On the sure. What can you do if you're the youngest son? Front. And then where does it go from there?

[Jordan Robinson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's so funny. I thought you were gonna bring up the brothers from Harry Potter. But you know, Night of the Seven Kingdoms also works. Gabrielle and the Hunt is pretty fun. Gabriella, not a huge fan. But when she's talking to that guy and he's like, oh, you're Italian. There's this great Italian restaurant. She's like, do they have spaghetti? That made me laugh. So funny.

[Mallory Rubin]

Hysterical.

[Jordan Robinson]

Ominous. Morning Siren. The great conversion is mentioned.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Jordan Robinson]

I think it's pretty self explanatory what the great conversion might be.

[Mallory Rubin]

Sure seems like it. I assume this is about turning more people into vampires. We've heard a few things over the seasons now at this point as well, is actually going back to season one. But like the swelling of the numbers.

[Jordan Robinson]

That's what Raglan says.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So everyone's going to become a vampire and then what does Akasha do with that? Because these are like, what do you eat?

[Jordan Robinson]

If everyone's a vampire, what do you eat?

[Mallory Rubin]

You got to keep some people around on your Farms, I guess.

[Jordan Robinson]

Oh, on the farms, of course. Of course, yeah. Real Rashid is here at the strip club the Talamaska enters. The real Rashid, by the way, kind of a globe. Like, he was always, like, quite handsome, but he's like, with the glasses and new hair. Like some sideburn action, some gray in the hair. Like, looks fantastic. Lysat's dead shitty brother is also here.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes. An unamusing muse.

[Jordan Robinson]

Yeah, great.

[Mallory Rubin]

Great turn of phrase on that one.

[Jordan Robinson]

Okay, so this is a question we had last week, which is like. Because it's not in the book, I don't know the answer to this. Which is like, how seriously are we supposed to take what baby jinx, when she was on the ceiling, said about the they who are coming? Right. Right inside of this voiceover. Lestat calls her an oracle. The oracle Jinx. Right. And he's like, is this the they she meant? Like, did she mean the ghosts that are coming? And in that case, is it a sort of almost like Christmas carol you will be voted, you know, visited by ghost3 or something like that? You know, Is that what she means? Or is there a different day coming? I don't know the answer. But, like, him calling her an oracle inside. This episode, to me, me, tells me that in the grammar of the show, yes, we're supposed to take her warning seriously.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Jordan Robinson]

Would you agree with that?

[Mallory Rubin]

I think that's correct. And this is where, of course, like, the fact that we are not independent of the actual literal flashbacks, moving in and out of time with Lysat, because he. I mean, we get an actual. In a. In a different part of the episode in the Daniel Louis sequence. Just an explanation and like a cover from Lestat on how he's able to, like, tell us that he wasn't there, which we'll talk about. But, you know, the voiceover that we're hearing on the failures. This is after this future horrible thing has unfolded.

[Jordan Robinson]

So we really know whether or not she was an oracle.

[Mallory Rubin]

We really know because we have the clarity. He has the clarity of these future events that is then informing the framing that is being delivered to us through these tapes, et cetera. And then we also have whatever in real time he. A supernatural being would maybe put stock in as some sort of prophetic event. So I think it's like kind of there in all directions.

[Jordan Robinson]

That's very smart.

[Mallory Rubin]

There's also, I think, with the great conversion thing. Cause that language choice is prophetic. In addition to the actual little harbingers and omens that we're getting signs and Portents. Portents and signs. It's fun to think about. Like, I don't know how much of this is known and explained definitively in the book and how much of this is new to the show. But, you know, the fact that that is language that we heard in season one and language that we heard in season two makes it clear that this predates Lestat as rockstar. And even the publication of the book, something was happening with the swelling of the ranks before then.

[Jordan Robinson]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

So that makes me. Whose plan is it? How many vampires are, like, maybe deliberately seeking to increase the numbers of the vampire kind.

[Jordan Robinson]

Right.

[Mallory Rubin]

But then in addition to that, and maybe this is just something that develops, that helps whoever that is achieve their ends. There's a public acknowledgement, even though we talked about this a lot in episode one, how many people are like, oh, interesting. I've moved on with my life immediately. And how many people are like, is this real? And can you make me a vampire?

[Jordan Robinson]

Right. Like in Manless Die, that fan in the audience in episode Wanted, Like, I know you're real.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes. And isn't the next. The next encounter there most likely to be, will you. Will you bite me and make me a vampire? Right. So how many people now are like, I would like this to be my life? Because I have been exposed through Daniel's book and now through Lestat's tour. Even in the, like, body burlesque of what's real and what isn't, I gotta say, I want that to be my life.

[Jordan Robinson]

If you're gonna send two people to be ambassadors of vampirism, Jacob Anderson and Sam Reid, great point. Great, great choices.

[Mallory Rubin]

I mean, who would be able to resist?

[Jordan Robinson]

Yeah. No one. Oh, I get to be that and you don't.

[Mallory Rubin]

Bite me.

[Jordan Robinson]

Bite me. Bite me immediately.

[Mallory Rubin]

Bite me.

[Jordan Robinson]

All right.

[Mallory Rubin]

This was another part, by the way, the. Oh, I'm jumping ahead. This was when I was going to. We haven't hit the. The Christine calling him about Thomas Pit, but this was when he was describing the blood down the staircase and being with Gabriella when he was like, it just feels good. Like, again, he's like, I know it shouldn't, but it feels.

[Jordan Robinson]

Just feels good. Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

But then the things he is describing are horrible, but I guess not to a vampire.

[Jordan Robinson]

Well, like, when they go to the motel, the Evite thing after the Christine phone call, after, he's like, do I have to sleep with them? And she's like, yeah. And I'm like, how often does le have to do that to get them out of.

[Mallory Rubin]

I know.

[Jordan Robinson]

Some Trouble. Gabrielle and Theat stalk their prey to a motel.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Jordan Robinson]

Here's my interpretation of it. And again, maybe I'm like, just too much of a Lestat defender and I'm just sort of of like, creating more sympathy where there shouldn't be. But it seems like when. When the last guy that they are stalking to the motel comes out and, you know, he was, like, having sex with, you know, a stripper or whoever a sex worker calls his wife, talks to his kids. So it's like, okay, this. This guy, this piece of shit, while he's on the road for a business trip, is cheating on his wife.

[Mallory Rubin]

Right.

[Jordan Robinson]

Et cetera, et cetera. So Gabriella, Love looks kind of more excited that he's got kids and a wife. And I was wondering if that's because she's like, oh, he was cheating on his wife and. And is a bad dad. So that makes me even more excited to kill him.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Jordan Robinson]

Lestat, to me, looks more uncomfortable finding out that he has kids. And when you couple that with his clear discomfort at the end of the episode. Again, my interpretation of when he hears his nieces and nephews screaming when they find the slaughtered family in the one room in that house we're allowed to go into, and he is awakened, troubled by that. And Gabriela is, like, sleeping blissfully, having done this. It seems to me that there is a gap in their moral code.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Jordan Robinson]

Do you agree with that?

[Mallory Rubin]

I do.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

I think the connection for Gabriella, I mean, potentially it's just the overall bloodlust and she's not discriminating. And even though they go through this winnowing of the potential meal to get to. To Randy, I think his name, anyone would have done, I think, for Gabriella.

[Jordan Robinson]

Right.

[Mallory Rubin]

I love your observation that maybe the fact that this guy is spending the night at Chubs, swiping on Tinder, someone who isn't his wife, and then calling and saying, I'm just. I'm just, you know, I'm. I'm leaving the chop house. I'm not leaving this CD motel where I just. Someone who wasn't you reminding her of her disgusting husband who she was forced to suffer through a life with.

[Jordan Robinson]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

As extra. One more thing to just, like, enjoy about destroying him. Exactly. Quite. Quite saucy. Quite saucy, those meals. But we notably don't see that person consumed the next time we're with them. They have killed in this restaurant, the Italian restaurant. So I think you're right that it seems at least plausible that Lestat is like, what if we went somewhere else for a meal. Now maybe that's just dessert.

[Jordan Robinson]

Right.

[Mallory Rubin]

Or it's possible.

[Jordan Robinson]

Or the second course or whatever the case.

[Mallory Rubin]

This was also too, where he was like, in the blood, down the staircase. It feels good finding the party invitation in your victim's pocket. Well, I mean, it doesn't have been anymore.

[Jordan Robinson]

Damn.

[Mallory Rubin]

The Evite's incredible.

[Jordan Robinson]

That was such a good line.

[Mallory Rubin]

Hysterical. And his delivery was just perfect. But then this. I was really struck by this. He was like, it's like. It's like. It's like that's it. He does. How often can we think of a moment where Lestat doesn't finish his sentence? Right. So Gabriella is a figure in his life who could. There is something that is clear to us already but very confusing to him

[Jordan Robinson]

and sends him back to a very young place.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Jordan Robinson]

We got the stutter from him at the end of episode one. You know, it just like it. Yeah. The ways in which he comports himself as this sort of, like, swaggering, in control, you know, egomaniac, all this sort of stuff like that. But, like, who he is in relation to her, even though he's her maker, is just, like, completely under her thumb and.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, like, he's always such a poet.

[Jordan Robinson]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

A literal lyricist.

[Jordan Robinson]

Yeah. And that's why I like. That's what I like about the stutter. The stutter is a show invention. In the book, he's illiterate and he's actually really resentful of Gabriella because she's always in her books, but she won't teach him how to read, so he hates her books because she's always in her books. And if you think back to season one, after Claudia is gone, Louis just, like, buries himself in his books and Lestat cannot handle it. And that's because he's thinking about his mom and her sort of disappearing into her books and how he can't follow her. But this idea that Lestat as a human was a stutterer or illiterate, whatever the case may be, and, like, who he has fashioned himself into, just sort of like the fastest tongue in the west, sort of like person at the end of the day, for example.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Indeed.

[Jordan Robinson]

All right. Speaking of which, Thomas Pit has an exclusive fan experience.

[Mallory Rubin]

This is.

[Jordan Robinson]

We both agree about this show, just unbelievable. But do you agree with me? The show just works on a whole different level when Jacob Anderson is here. Like. Like, I missed him so much in episode one, and I love Sam Reed, as I've said for years, but, like. And Arabigozhin and Assad and all of them. But, like, but there's just something about Jacob Anderson's, like, voice and performance as Louis that just takes this show to a completely different level. And I shout out Thomas Pitt, which they have acknowledged, I thought, and then they acknowledged is a reference to Tom Cruise and Brad Pitt, the stars of the film Interview with a Vampire. Pretty cute. But yeah, Jacob Anderson is here and I just feel like something just like really clicks into place as soon as he shows up.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, I definitely agree. I mean, I think the single best version of the show is when they share a scene. But when we're watching Daniel and Louis at the. I choose to. I'm specifically reminding you I wasn't in this scene, right. Lestat voiceover.

[Jordan Robinson]

It's them.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's breathtaking. You know, I didn't like me in it, right. When Louis is sitting with Rasheed and Raglan the Talamaskids. Like, any scene that Louis is in is like, at a female watching.

[Jordan Robinson]

Just him watching the concert. The way that Jacob Anderson is. All the emotions that he's putting on his face as Louis watching Lestat sing. And also I just like rewound and watched it five different times. The telepathic conversation between Daniel and Louis where I could just like really see those line reads on those both of those actors faces just like. And I was like. I was like, what was happening? Like, did they have an earwig in their ear? And they were like hearing their line back and they were just like, let me match my facial expression to what my. I don't know. I just thought it was exquisite.

[Mallory Rubin]

Really great.

[Jordan Robinson]

All right, so Louis and Lemuel, incredible.

[Mallory Rubin]

Just really like your music.

[Jordan Robinson]

And Lestat and Christine, that's so good. They're arguing over all of this Sausalito, which. So as you mentioned, we saw this clip as far back as San Diego Comic Con. They, you know, they've shown it a lot. Something that Sam Reed said is that apparently this scene was supposed to be buried by voiceover. This was like. Because there's a lot of things we see that we don't hear in this show because there's voiceover over it. So this was supposed to be a scene where we hear Lestat, but we're watching them argue. And so Sam Raine was like. So we really went, you know, in those scenes when you know you're going to be covered by a voiceover, you perform almost to the rafters because you're like, I have to. To like, really show how I'm feeling. Because People won't be able to hear me, but they're like. But Roland Jones, like, loved it so much that they just kept it. And it is so good. Shout out, Sausalito. Shout out. Marin county, where I was born. So Salito. Santiago. Like, great, great. Lestat. Shit here.

[Mallory Rubin]

Santiago, I could understand. At least he had a presence. But Armand. Armand, Unbelievable. And as we talked about when the clip came out, or maybe when we did our Comic Con pod, like you said, I bet. I bet. Very specific detail to Pluck out of

[Jordan Robinson]

Thin Air is just.

[Mallory Rubin]

I bet.

[Jordan Robinson]

I bet.

[Mallory Rubin]

An incredible exchange and an incredible scene. The rhythm that they have together, like, with love and respect to the actual music and musical numbers of the show, which are incredibly entertaining and genuinely, like, boy, impressive. This is the real music of the show.

[Ad]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Like this duet.

[Jordan Robinson]

And you're right, it is musical the

[Mallory Rubin]

way the rhythm and rapport that they have together, it's a dance, but it's also a duet. And, like, there's just kind of nothing like it. I mean, it's just. It's electric to watch them.

[Jordan Robinson]

I feel some, you know, like, the. I bet. I bet. Or like, a lot of people were comparing that delivery to in season one, when Louis is like, oh, so can I sleep with other people? And Lestat goes, of course. Yeah, of course. Of course.

[Ad]

You know.

[Jordan Robinson]

Or Armand going, lestat. Lestat, Lestat, Lestat, Lestat. You know, like, there is this, like. You know, it gets stuck in your head. A line of song. That's a beautiful observation. Later, Louis will tell Raglan that he knows it was the fanging or that fucked up his hotel. So this entire meeting is really just a thinly veiled excuse for Louis to see Lestat.

[Mallory Rubin]

That's how I should be such a fan experience.

[Jordan Robinson]

Anyway, the songs are not about you. Louis also chose to get involved in Lestat's merch sales. Like, is it fucking with him? Yes. But is it a way to be connected with him? Yes, it's all of the above.

[Mallory Rubin]

You know, it's like, incredible moment when Christine. Lestat's like, well, what the fuck? And Christine's like, I'll look into it. Like a remind, a way to keep Lestat on his back foot. Right. But the next conversation that we witness with Louis and Daniel is, like, this real. I feel really bad about this. Right, right. So there's kind of all of it. I think that what you're observing about that desire to be connected to him when they are apart. But also, like, I have a. You know, I saw a business opportunity like, one of the things he says to Daniel, it's like the reach that Louis has, the way that those glassy vampire fingers of Louis have worked away.

[Jordan Robinson]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Immortal properties, Talamaska coming to him for what exact reason and motive? You know, we have what Raglan actually will say, and then we have our theory brains. But, like, hey, we need, like, you to get involved here.

[Jordan Robinson]

So what I love about that is that you can connect that back to the Louis that we meet in season one, you know, And Lestat in this scene calls him what, bottom line, Louis. Right. Like, there's a business opportunity. You go for it. And Louis later says to Daniel, I saw money on the table. Right. You know, it's just this idea of, like, Louis, who always had this sort of entrepreneurial mindset when he was in New Orleans, and how that has just expanded and expanded in his. In his vampire years. And so this idea that he, like, owns a random hotel in Detroit, but, like, where. How far does immortal properties go?

[Mallory Rubin]

And.

[Jordan Robinson]

And you know what? Yeah, but. But the idea that, like, he's always. Lestat has always been interested in the theater, and Louis has always been interested in owning things and owning property and building money off of other money and stuff like that.

[Mallory Rubin]

And then that aspect of, like, well, what is authentic to each of them, and then how does it unlock something in the present moment? Because then you think back to, like, the red carpet arrivals last week in episode one, and that. That setup that we. We got from Losada, like, the opening. Right. Of this boutique hotel.

[Jordan Robinson]

So a movie plot where the tour was going.

[Mallory Rubin]

Exactly. Right. Like, and I don't know how quickly you can spin up a boutique hotel if you're. Those walls crumble pretty quickly.

[Jordan Robinson]

You've got. His car is working for you, you know, and the means.

[Mallory Rubin]

Right. Which Louis has. So, like, the business impulse there, the entrepreneurial spirit there.

[Jordan Robinson]

I love that idea.

[Mallory Rubin]

But is he just, like, where are the tour dates? Let's make sure that every place this guy goes is somewhere I own.

[Jordan Robinson]

That mean that means that's like. Makes me kind of em.

[Mallory Rubin]

Like, amazing.

[Jordan Robinson]

All right. Pretty green eyes than the Cougar Milanese. All right, so two new songs in this episode. The first, previewed earlier for us by Tough Cookie, is why do I have to feel this one? Lestat sings dramatically and directly to Louis. This all really worked for me. It's quite cheesy, the, like, slowing down the gold and the, like, you know, levitating up to the balcony. But I loved this. Are we supposed to believe that the band, minus Alex Is playing better now. Like, finding their sound. So, like, so to that email we got from our listener.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Jordan Robinson]

The ecstasy of letting Larry actually play his guitar rather than tambourine. And that idea of, like, everyone has something to contribute here. We're a band, by the way. Bands fighting on a tour bus. Of course. I'm also thinking about Almost Famous. Like, naturally. Could this be more for me? No, could not be more for me. But do you feel like we're supposed to believe that this performance is better? I mean, I already said that I like Longface, but, like, are we meant to believe that? Why do I have to feel is being performed more successfully than their previous concerts?

[Mallory Rubin]

That's a good question. Because I don't know the answer to that. Because

[Jordan Robinson]

the crowd seems bigger, but the venue just seems a little bigger.

[Ad]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

But then we have Daniel, but you can't senses they sound thin without Alex, but it's Daniel. So you're like, is he just being a dick, a prick because he's Daniel? Or like, do they actually not sound as, like, fully realized as they should when their membership is intact because their best guitarist hasn't fled after finding out that their frontman is actually a murderous vampire?

[Ad]

Right.

[Mallory Rubin]

I thought on the floating toward Louis front, that was. I was like, this looks pretty silly, but very silly. I. I liked it.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

And I think one of the things that's effective inside of it is. Is, like, I don't know, the way that it reminds us that time can feel like it moves differently for these characters because they're vampires, but also just because of the connection that they have to each other. The way that, like, everybody, you know, you have.

[Jordan Robinson]

You see everybody except for the vamp, the other vampires. Because Gabrielle. Gabriella can see them. Exactly.

[Mallory Rubin]

Gabriella's looking back like, what the fuck? So she has her personal investment in this. Louis and Lestat, a lot of the people in the crowd are just sort of, like, looking at the stage still. It's almost like it happens out of the experience of other people's ability to understand. But then it also still sort of ports you. So you have that. Where you're like, what are other people even, like, tracking here? Versus how much of this is, like, a projection for Louis. But you could also say the more literal interpretation of, like, the audience is ready to be deceived that we got with Santiago and the theater troupe in the way that he would actually levitate. And we talked about a mini version of the. With the crowd surfing into the. Like, your feet are not on the ground and they don't even track it. Or they do and they think it's part of the trick. So how much of that is there? Like, this is the whole show I came to see. And how much of it is they can't even perceive? Only for Louis. But Gabrielle, if they're like, oh, Pink

[Jordan Robinson]

can levitate during a concert. So can Lestat. The Lee encore.

[Ad]

All right.

[Jordan Robinson]

Fun fact that I just found by accident by Googling the lyrics of this song. Sometimes I do that to find out what the title of the song song is. This. This song, which is called why do why Do I have to Feel written by Daniel Hart, includes lyrics from a song by the group man man titled the Prettiest Song in the World. So that I wanted to write you the prettiest song in the world, but I got distracted. That's a lyric from that song. In that song, he says, by the By Fires in Burbank or whatever. Here Lestat produces that book from God knows where, certainly not in his tight pants. And like, shoves it at literally. But a fun fact is that the group man man is the lead singer is Ryan Katner, who plays Salamander. So this is like lyrics from a song by the guy who's playing Salamander, who's the music supervisor on the show that they incorporated into this moment, which I thought was just like a really fun thing. We will talk a bit more about the sort of Baudelaire poem that is part of the second song that there something that I. I saw a really brilliant online fandom assessment of this show's version of Leat because the lyrics here I was afraid of losing you and then I lost you. Which is the lyrics that Tough Cookie was making fun of earlier in the episode too.

[Mallory Rubin]

I lost you.

[Jordan Robinson]

Like, all that sort of stuff. I saw a really brilliant fan assess this as like, that Lestat will time and again do things that contradict his personal moral code, which is like turn clock Claudia. Perhaps attack the Leon Corfan.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Jordan Robinson]

Family. Perhaps have sex with his mom when he, like, doesn't really feel like it's the right thing to do, even if he is someone attracted to her. Whatever is a. In his desperate attempt to make people he loves stay, he will do these things that he believes are incredibly wrong and then they leave anyway. And that's just the story of Lestat. Sad.

[Mallory Rubin]

Very sad.

[Jordan Robinson]

Sad.

[Mallory Rubin]

Very, very sad.

[Jordan Robinson]

There's also one shot where Jennifer Ailey as Gabriella is plugging her ears while Estada's singing in the crowd. It's incredibly funny to me oh, God. When Daniel and Louis are having their telepathic conversation. Yeah. And in contrast to season one, when Louis says, you're looking old Daniel, he says, you're looking younger Daniel. Right. And Daniel says, monocytes and manjara. Do you think mono size M Manjaro is a lost Jane Austen novel? And if not, should we write it?

[Mallory Rubin]

I thought you were going to say, is it a prestige TV email?

[Jordan Robinson]

Why don't you have too many options inside of this show today?

[Mallory Rubin]

That's true.

[Jordan Robinson]

So Jacob Anderson has said that Louis receiving this annotated copy that we saw Lestat furiously highlight and write notes in the margin. All this other stuff like that, like him looking at it and that page that he's looking at in the concert, if you zoom the. The note on the top of the left hand page is, why is Louis trying to hurt me? That however bad Louis felt before about the book, this unlocked a new layer of guilt for him. Like seeing it's not just like Lestat is having a tantrum and like performing that he's upset. Like he wrote these notes. He really is felt wounded by this. And this is just a new level of him understanding that in a way that he didn't before.

[Mallory Rubin]

And the way that in the Louis Daniel conversation, Louis's like, you know, we were working our way back to each other.

[Jordan Robinson]

Right.

[Mallory Rubin]

So there's the extra degree of regret. Yeah, the balloons are nice. They're. They're activating animations on iPads.

[Jordan Robinson]

They're faced before he goes to shit.

[Mallory Rubin]

They're face timing. But then. And this is of a piece with the overall aspect that Louis has to. In front, it would be easy to just blame Daniel. You didn't ask me and you published the book and you knew I didn't want to because I forgot about the cloud, but I deleted the file. So what I wanted here was clear. Even though I told you all the stuff in the first place. But at the end of the day, he has to reckon with the fact that he said these things.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Right.

[Mallory Rubin]

And he made Lestat feel this way because of the things he said, because of his version of it. Now there's also the version of that for Lestat which is like he also has to look at the truth on the page or a version of the truth. Say, like the person I. Is that how he sees me or

[Jordan Robinson]

is that how I am with that shitty ass haircut and no scars. And no scars. All right, so let's go into that scene. So Daniel is taking up bowling. This dinner conversation. You already mentioned that we get this sort of lamp shading of the omniscient narration in voiceover.

[Mallory Rubin]

This is my hour and when tertiary figures appear in it, I will be speaking for them. Just great stuff. That also casts obviously more doubt on the reliability of Daenery. For sure. No question.

[Jordan Robinson]

With less. Less whining than these two managed to. Ominous warning SIREN I woke the Queen and unleashed her wrath upon the world.

[Mallory Rubin]

I mean, it doesn't sound great.

[Jordan Robinson]

Doesn't sound ideal.

[Mallory Rubin]

Sounds like it'll be entertaining television though.

[Jordan Robinson]

I wonder when that happens. I don't know.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. What's your prediction? I feel like this is knowing literally nothing about future events. I feel like this is. So it's a seven episode season. We're through two. We have a lot of harbingers through two episodes specifically around Akasha and this like, horrible.

[Jordan Robinson]

Did you know the Lestat has the blood of Akasha in him?

[Mallory Rubin]

It's come up.

[Jordan Robinson]

Wow.

[Mallory Rubin]

World shattering circumstance that awaits. It feels like it can't actually just then be like, oh, she's here in the finale. Like it has to be sooner than that.

[Jordan Robinson]

I don't know the answer to that because again, they're blending two books.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Jordan Robinson]

So I don't know what timeline. Like how much of that which is titled the Queen of the Damned that they're saving for another season they're hoping to get or how much they're rushing it into this season.

[Mallory Rubin]

My inclination initially was maybe she'll be introduced in the finale and then that sets up the adaptation for season four and the next renaming of a Star wars story.

[Jordan Robinson]

But

[Mallory Rubin]

it would be a lot, I think, to forecast and tease a apocalyptic doom and not give us that in

[Jordan Robinson]

this season and maybe not even get that next season.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. So my new prediction is I guess that maybe Akasha arrives in like episode five and then that gives us a couple episodes for whatever episodes of Apocalypse from there.

[Jordan Robinson]

Yeah, that sounds fun.

[Mallory Rubin]

Again, very Loki esque.

[Jordan Robinson]

All right, so Daniel claims that some, quote, Hollywood asshole is behind the Lestat doc.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Jordan Robinson]

Are we supposed to understand that or are we meant to understand just by like the way that real Rashid shows up at the concert and stuff like that and they say they have Daniel on retainer. Are we meant to understand that it's actually the Telemaska?

[Mallory Rubin]

Right. Because he introduces them as his producers.

[Jordan Robinson]

So this documentary is a Talamaska produced documentary. Is that your understanding?

[Mallory Rubin]

I think so.

[Jordan Robinson]

I think so too.

[Mallory Rubin]

But I always open to the possibility of another reveal beyond this.

[Jordan Robinson]

This is not in the show, the book. I don't Know the answer? I'm asking. I'm just asking questions. Fathers and daughters. So we get this sort of, like, back and forth about, like, Daniel and his. He talks about his unusual connection to Armand.

[Mallory Rubin]

Right.

[Jordan Robinson]

And his inability to connect to his human daughters. Louis lies so blatantly into Daniel here when he's like, oh, that's weird. No, that's not normal. That's completely weird.

[Mallory Rubin]

Sounds weird. Was so funny.

[Jordan Robinson]

We have seen in season one, like, Louis and Lysat's heartbeat synchronizing. We have seen in the season one finale when they. You know, when they have that. The. The, like, costume ball, New Orleans dance, and the two of them are dancing and everyone in the room goes away, and it's just Louie and Lestad dancing alone in the room. And then everyone comes back in one of those great, like, you know, movie magic moments, basically.

[Mallory Rubin]

Exactly what.

[Jordan Robinson]

Literally what Daniel is describing here. And Lou's like, I don't know. That sounds weird, man.

[Mallory Rubin]

Sounds weird.

[Jordan Robinson]

So weird. Where. Where's Arman? When do you want to see him? Do you miss him?

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Jordan Robinson]

Acid.

[Mallory Rubin]

I do.

[Jordan Robinson]

I miss him.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. I just. I fell so deeply in love with that character in season two, so. God. Yeah.

[Jordan Robinson]

And then Louis tells a story about seeing a girl who looks like Claudia.

[Mallory Rubin]

Ugh. This was sad.

[Jordan Robinson]

Really devastating.

[Mallory Rubin]

Jeez. Yeah.

[Jordan Robinson]

Delaney, we await your arrival. I mean, I have to imagine that this is how they're using Delaney this season. Is this, like, girl that he saw in New York? Do you think that's the case, or is it just gonna be, like, flashback, or what do you think?

[Mallory Rubin]

I guess, given the brute.

[Jordan Robinson]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Killer. End of this episode, propelling Louis into this tal. Damasca task because of this connection to Claudia, as we'll go through there. Could be. Yeah. Through more of that history in general. I thought that chased a ghost, I guess, was just, like, so heartbreaking and sad. And in some respects, like. Like, all of these characters are doing a version of that. And then the question becomes, can that ghost become, like, take corporeal form for you again? Right.

[Jordan Robinson]

Like, is that a possible thing in this supernatural world? And is that a healthy thing to chase? Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

And to always be, like, seeking that version of your. Your past again. Yeah. Boy, that was. That was sad.

[Jordan Robinson]

We're going to do all of this Louis stuff before we wind up. We end with Baudelaire, but. But here comes Raglan and real Rasheed, and I just want to shout out Justin Kirk's completely bonkers accent.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's insane.

[Jordan Robinson]

Is it fair for me to praise it When I just sort of, like, lit Jennifer Ehle's accent on fire. Maybe not, but he's intentionally trying to do something very weird here. And we could talk about why. Maybe a bit more in the book spoiler section. But he's trying to do a sort of, like, mid Atlantic via something else. Via something else accent. That is what he is going for. Here it is when he says Rashid. Just really funny. Really good. Here's the funniest thing that book readers responded to in this scene, and I'll get into a bit more of what it means in the book spoiler section, but they just offhandedly mentioned that Louis killed a Talamaska agent named David Talbot in Dubai. Killed 31 people. You know, the season one ends with this sort of, like, come and fucking get me moment from Louis, and we find out that he killed 30, 31 people. 32, including David Talbot. David Talbot is, like, a significant character inside of the Anne Rice books, but a largely unpopular character. Oh, interesting. And so they're gonna have to do. If they get more seasons, they're gonna have to do some character shuffling in order to, like, fill the hole that they've just created. But they have just, like, just decided to kill a major character off screen this offhanded way. Jacob Anderson in the official podcast is like, I hate that guy. I've always hated that guy. I got really excited that not only does he die off screen so we don't have to deal with him, but, like, I got to do it. Like, sounds great. So, okay, RIP David Talbot. Really wild, adaptive choice here. I'm pretty into it. And then we get this Bruce killer stuff. How do you feel about this?

[Mallory Rubin]

Good. I mean, this has been a big kind of open source of story and also source of wounds and division and distance between the characters. You know, this. This horrific source of trauma for Claudia, who was out on a journey of exploration and discovery and going to new places and trying to enjoy life, and was taken prisoner. Captive by this man who then tormented her, preyed upon her, and the pain and. And torment that she carried with her. Moving forward from this, like, so bad

[Jordan Robinson]

that Louis had to, like, redact it from the story, like, from her journals, because he didn't want anyone to know this thing happened to her.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. So, I mean, it makes sense that this would be something that the show returned to. I think Louis feelings about Claudia and desire to find a way for, like, this connection and presence to be restored. I think, like, it feels. I mean, I assume this is all true, that the Talamasca Is like, this is. You know, we had that killer tattoo on the back of Baby Jinx. Yeah. The Oracle Baby Jenks neck last week. So there's maybe the practical thing that they need this to be done and accounted for, but also, like, to be able to say to Louis in a way that they know will incite a response like, you're not gonna let this guy go.

[Jordan Robinson]

So my understand, like, why have Louis do it instead of. Instead of them cleaning up? And. And the explanation that Raglan gives. And again, we don't necessarily need to believe him, but the explanation he gives is like, we do cleanup.

[Mallory Rubin]

We don't.

[Jordan Robinson]

Right, we don't. We would not do anything this direct.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Jordan Robinson]

Basically, we need to, like, manipulate you into doing it, and then we can, like, help clean it up, but we can't have our hands as dirty as they would need to be in order to take care of this problem directly ourselves. Right. So, yeah, it seems very clear that they've got Louis on the hook for this. And again, this is a show invented sort of storyline for Louis to keep him present here.

[Mallory Rubin]

Got it. And then. Well, so then one of the things that's interesting to me about that as a way to keep Louis, like, really centered in the story is then what is the Lestat connection to this? Because, you know, we have, as we've mentioned already, the reminder that Louis doesn't know about Gabriella. Right. So there's a truth kept on Lestat. But then there's also, like, what does Gabriella know about Louis? And she's on a real jealousy driven, fact finding mission inside of this episode. And one of the things that she says to Lestat toward the end is like, I see why you gave him a daughter. Right. And then, like, took her back. And that was the only line. Yeah. Even the incest, where he's like, we should make a pact. But then he's like, later, you know, when she's slicing his neck and drinking. Oh, we rode the edges of our pact. He's like, we have boundaries, but not really. This is the tripwire that he's like. And we were having such a good night. And the mood and the tone changes completely.

[Jordan Robinson]

It goes icy on her.

[Mallory Rubin]

There's Louis, but also Claudia and what Claudia means to their family, but to Louis specifically because of how much Louis means to Lestat and what Claudia means to Lestat also. Obviously, that was very complicated and messy, but, like, so what is Lestat gonna

[Jordan Robinson]

do about Bruce and killer about Bruce,

[Mallory Rubin]

and if Louis ends up in. In some sort of sticky, messy circumstance in pursuit of that vengeance. What will Gabriella do about that? Like, hey, pay attention to me, not him. And not that that feels. I wonder how much of the plot will orient around that and that.

[Jordan Robinson]

I mean, anything that can put the two of them in a scene together, I'm in favor of, as you know.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, for sure. For sure. And there's also just, like, the overall, like, you know, what. What is happening with that coven? Right. Like, how much power do they hold? Like, not just Bruce specifically, but.

[Jordan Robinson]

So that's the Fang Gang, right?

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Jordan Robinson]

Yes, the Tooth Team.

[Mallory Rubin]

Exactly.

[Jordan Robinson]

You know, they've got a farm.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. And we talked about, like, the power outage.

[Jordan Robinson]

Fentanyl distribution. Power outage? What is that? Power outage.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Jordan Robinson]

All right. Anyone? Fancy Italian? Let's wrap it up here. Along with this musical performance of Baudelaire, which we'll talk about in a second. We get a flashback to Lestat turning Gabriella fighting with Nick, Gabriella taking to vampirism with gusto, and then the two of them slaughtering the family together, which, as you noted earlier, this doesn't happen in the book. He does not kill his family. She does not kill his family. He actually takes care of his family after he becomes. He doesn't like them. He likes his nieces and nephews, but he doesn't like his brother and his dad, but he takes care of them financially after he is turned into a vampire. And so this is a huge rip. David Talbot. And also Lestat and his mom killed their shitty family. I don't know. Does that. Is that. In what way? Is that an interesting change to you? To me, I guess to me, I will say. Because, again, he feels like a reluctant part. Not totally reluctant. Right. He pulls a heart out of the chest of.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes, he does. Yeah.

[Jordan Robinson]

One of them. But. But it seems like something Gabriella, like, goaded him into.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. She's like, we can get back there in an hour.

[Jordan Robinson]

And he feels. Feels, you know, uncomfortable with it. And something I did, like, is like, they're hiding in those. Would you call it a crypt? Is it a tomb? I guess a tomb. You see them a lot on Buffy Vampire Slayer. Something that is like a big cement coffin that you put another coffin in, but they're hiding in there. But those, like. That's one of the first shots of the episode is those. You know, because he describes his dead siblings as garden gnomes outside of the manor. But like. Like those cement or stone coffin thing. Tombs are there, and that's where they are at the end of the episode. And I thought that was like a cool little circle back.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, I think I agree. Like this idea that this is like a gift he gave her, not necessarily the choice he would have made on his own. And then what else is he willing to do for her, for other people,

[Jordan Robinson]

to the things we do for love, as Jaime Lannister might say. All right, so Lestat sings a second song of the night. It's Baudelaire. It's Baudelaire time. Baudelaire already got a mention in the

[Mallory Rubin]

auction song cycle set to the poetry of Baudelaire. That was the episode one. So two episodes, two mentions.

[Jordan Robinson]

Why Baudelaire? My guess is that he wrote. It's because, again, this is a word search for Baudelaire inside of Anne Rice. I didn't find anything. So this is a show invention.

[Mallory Rubin]

Right?

[Jordan Robinson]

So is it because he wrote poems like Le Vampire and the Metamorphosis of the Vampire. And I read those poems. And in those poems, the vampire is usually a metaphor for like, addiction and self destruction and all this sort of stuff like that. So he was like the. The. The vampire symbol is something that Baudelaire was interested in. He's an early modernist. A lot of symbolistic language. This poem that they set to this tune written by. The tune written by Daniel Hart. The words are Baudelaire's, and it's from the poem Fountain the of Blood, Le Fontaine de Song. And it's the same tune that he was playing over the iPad to Louis in episode one. And I'm wondering if in the lyrics of. Why do I have to feel the lyrics when he says, I want to write you the prettiest song in the world. But I got distracted. Like, is this what he means? This is. I was trying to write you this beautiful Baudelaire song or a beautiful song, you know, but then the fucking book came out and I got distracted. Um, Daniel Hart, in an interview, said, like, we wanted to show music that would come from his pre rock and roll era. More like an art song or a chamber song for the 19th century. I really enjoyed writing it. There are many translations of this poem, but I went with the Edna St Vincent Millay shout out lesbians translation. I'm gonna read. Seems to me sometimes my blood is bubbling out as fountains do in rhythm Rhythmic sobs I feel it spout and lapse I hear it plainly it makes a murmuring sound but from what wound it wells so far I have not found as blood runs in the lists Round tumbled armored bones it soaks the City islanding, the paving stones. Everything thirsty leans to lap it with stretched head. Trees suck it up, it stains their trunks and branches red. I turn to wine for respite. I drink and I drink deep. Just for one day. One day. Neither to see nor hear. Wine only renders sharper the frantic eye and ear. In terror I cry to love. Oh, put my mind to sleep. But love for me is only a mattress where I shrink on needles and my blood is given to whores to drink. So a lot of blood stuff.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes, quite.

[Jordan Robinson]

Very vampire.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Jordan Robinson]

Here's my, like, a few things that I want to call out from this, you know, in every translation of this poem, the bottom line is he's bleeding freely, but he cannot find the source of the blood. Where is the wound on my body? I cannot find it. So if you can't find the wound, you can't, you know, stamp the flow of blood. Like, that's part of it. But also like Lestat has not done the work to the psychological work, the therapeutic work to figure out what the original wound is here, right? I'd say Gabrielle, personally, but, like, you know, seems like a mileage mandatory at the end of the day. Everything thirsty leans to lap it with stretched head. The blood that he is, you know, his. His vampire feelings are so big that the blood just like, is flooding the city, right, With. With his blood, with his wound, everyone, everything thirsting leads. Lap it up. Trees in some translations, cattle, like, whatever the case may be. This idea of, like, as an artist, your pain becomes art that other people feed on, right? So as a songwriter, let's say you put your pain into the. The lyrics. And then, you know, a crowd of a thousand people or so in Toledo are like, yeah, sing me about your heartbreak. They're just like, greedily lapping it up so your.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Your.

[Jordan Robinson]

Your pain becomes food for other people to consume. This idea of like, of. Of wine for respite. One day. One day neither to see nor hear. So numbing, it doesn't work, right? Does not help. And then love, trying to sort of, like, immerse yourself inside of love and maybe the love will feel, you know, as. As the oracle, baby jinx. Like, does that touch top up your heart? These various, like, love stories that you've created for yourself with Nikki, with Louie, etc, and the answer is, you know, to boare, at least. No, right? Better needles. My blood is given to horse to drink. Not. Not great. Love's not the answer. Wine's not the answer. I'm bleeding profusely and I don't know what the wound is. And that's the. The poem. The lyrics that he has put to this song here. Love it. What? Anything you want to say about Baudelaire?

[Mallory Rubin]

I think you covered it. I have nothing to add.

[Jordan Robinson]

We did it. Poetry corner.

[Mallory Rubin]

Beautiful.

[Jordan Robinson]

Thanks for the Baudelaire book spoilers.

[Mallory Rubin]

Let's do it.

[Jordan Robinson]

Let's do it. All right, so as you mentioned, RIP David Talbot. We did get an email about this. Actually, our emailers did not mention David Talbot, but I now understand this is who they were talking about. Right. So Jessica wrote in to say I wanted to clarify. In the great body swap thing that we're talking about, Lestat does. Does get his body back from Raglan James after they swap. But James then swaps with a friend of Lestat's who has not yet been introduced in the show. This is David Talbot. That person in James's body becomes a vampire, but Lestat does get to be himself again. But then again, they could change this and use his body double. Or it could be a way for, quote, unquote, Lestat to publicly be killed and die. It'll be interesting to see where they go from. From there. I don't know how to. In. In my understanding of this shell game that is the body swap. Yeah. I don't know who to put in David Talbot's place. David Talbot, who was an elderly human who Lestat eventually turns into a vampire in Raglan James's body. So, like, if. If we. Who worked for the Telemasca and is a friend of Lestat. So is it like, Daniel, an older man who was already a vampire, but, like, an older man, blah, blah. Is it Louis Some? Or is it someone else they have yet? Is it Rashid? Is it, like, who is it going to be? Or are they even gonna do it? I don't know. But, like, it feels like they want to do the body swap since they seem like they've already teased that in the auction scene at the beginning of episode one, but I don't. The David Talbot problem creates a real hole inside of this whole equation that I don't know how they plan to. I don't have a clear understanding of who they could swap in for him. But obviously they want to swap in a character they already have to make it all feel, like, interesting. A tighter story. Potential incorporation of The Anne Rice 2000 book Merrick with this Claudia plot in which Louis resurrects Claudia to find closure.

[Mallory Rubin]

Okay. Yeah.

[Jordan Robinson]

So is that what they're doing here with. Yeah. This waitress that he sees in New York.

[Ad]

Right.

[Jordan Robinson]

Is she a resurrected Claudia, or is she a vessel that they could put a resurrected Claudia into? Or, like, what are they going to do? But, like, that is a plot line of. Of a later Anne Rice book. I don't know the answer, but. Interesting, interesting. All right. The Great Conversion. We already talked about this, as you mentioned. It's not. I mean, do you want more specifics of this? Of slightly more specifics?

[Mallory Rubin]

Sure.

[Jordan Robinson]

The Great Conversion is more vampires than humans, I believe. So, like, that's the idea is, like, let's change the percentage and we're going to keep the humans around so we can feed on them, but let's become the dominant population of the. The world.

[Mallory Rubin]

Okay. Makes sense.

[Jordan Robinson]

Devil's Minion is a chapter inside of the Queen of the Dam that is all about Daniel and Armand and, oh, yeah, baby, their love story. I feel like, you know, this is, like, this is so present here in Daniel's, like, discomfort in talking about Armand. And it's just sort of like I feel him even when he's not here. And I kind of love that they're doing this because, like, because of the time jump shenanigans they did in season one. Like, Daniel Malloy is a young man in the books.

[Mallory Rubin]

Right, right, right.

[Jordan Robinson]

So the fact that they're like, Daniel Malloy is a much older man played by Eric Boghossian, but I think they're still gonna do this, like, Armand, Daniel love story thing. Fantastic, fucked up. And, like, if you think about that and you go back to that episode in season two that we love, it's just like, all this, you know? Is that what makes you fascinating? Is that what makes you fascinating?

[Mallory Rubin]

I loved that. Really excited.

[Jordan Robinson]

And then body swapping as an explanation for Raglan's bizarre accent tale, the body thief is not his first rodeo at body swapping. He's been, like, doing this. So, like, how old is he? I don't know the answer, but, like, he's been sort of body hopping already. So, like, again, this is what I'm talking about. If you've lived for centuries, your accent should be weird, you know, for sure.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Jordan Robinson]

Or non existent, you know?

[Mallory Rubin]

Right. Completely blank. Or just nuts.

[Jordan Robinson]

Or just nuts. And Justin Kirk has gone for nuts. And I'm a big fan of it personally, but yeah. Anything else you want to talk about here? Any questions you might have that I can. Might be able to answer or not,

[Mallory Rubin]

I guess, on the Claudia front, like, so what are you. What are you hoping for in terms of just, I guess, volume for that storyline?

[Jordan Robinson]

It Depends if Lestat is also involved.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Jordan Robinson]

If it's just like a side plot. I'm just kind of traumatized from this last season of euphoria where people felt like they were inside plots that did not loop back to the main story and just sort of like a way to keep someone here even though we don't have a story for them. Do you know? So. But by dint of it being Claudia, it is by nature then, like more naturally connected to the story. I really like Delaney's performance as Claudia. So like, if she's playing a different person, that's going to be kind of fun, I think. And

[Mallory Rubin]

I.

[Jordan Robinson]

But I don't expect it will take up more than like a couple episodes. Inside of this season would be my guess. Right. But I would love for it to be an excuse to put Louis and Lestat together.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Jordan Robinson]

Yeah. Because I would always prefer that same. Great.

[Mallory Rubin]

Let's do it.

[Jordan Robinson]

That is it for the Vampire Lestat Episode 2. Thank you to Jacob Cornette, Carlos Chiraboga, Scott Lee, Arjuna, Rick Powell, Jomi at dinneron our entire band that we would talk it through with. And the thing I love about Lestat is that he really did talk it through with them.

[Mallory Rubin]

You know that guy loves a meeting.

[Jordan Robinson]

Yeah. I mean the band performed together after. After all was said and done. We will be back with the Dark Knight Rises.

[Mallory Rubin]

That's right.

[Jordan Robinson]

Very soon.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Jordan Robinson]

And then House of the Dragon is the next time you'll hear from us. Lestat Episode 3 hobbitsanddragonsmail.com yes. If you want to eat, email us your thoughts and feelings and book reader insights. We would love to hear them your Baudelaire interpretations. Anything else and we'll see you soon.

[Mallory Rubin]

Bye.