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Foreign.
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Welcome back to House of R. I'm Joanna Robinson. That's Mallory Rubin. Our pod never stops for gas. We run on bots and abandonment. It's the vampire Lestat. Are you excited, Mallory?
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I can't wait. I almost texted you. In a Gabriella slash Sophia esque capacity. You made a terrible mistake. This tiki bar is full of wonders.
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B
Ooh.
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But I thought don't burn pod. You know, save it for the pod. So now here we are. And I've saved it for the pod, shared it with you.
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B
But actually I would like. Okay. And then I'm gonna do the right after this. But I do. I wanna go to a tiki bar here in Los Angeles.
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A
Let's do it.
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I would like some recommendations from the bad babies. So hobbitsanddragonsmail.com for your Los Angeles tiki bar recommendations. Cause we have like some fun vampire themed drinks we're supposed to get. Fantastic this month. Okay. All of that.
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Yes.
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Right after this.
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This episode of House of R is presented to you by target. For 30 years, Pokemon has shown that adventures are better together. And Target is calling all trainers to the celebration.
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That's because there's something for every era of fan in the Pokemon in Target limited time collection.
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So let there be goals.
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Sportsbook gambling problem.
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Call 1-800- GAMBLER or 1-800-MY-STET.
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B
Today's pod is Vampire Lestat Season 3 Episode 4 Devil's Road. Because I suppose Warchester sister didn't roll off the tongue.
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A
Just an incredible moment. Absolutely wonderful. That was like maybe my hardest laugh of the episode. I thought that the ridiculous from Lea was iconic and it is. It's, you know. Yeah. Worcester.
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Worcester.
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My parents lived in Worcester for. For a hot second there while they were still married. So a long time ago. And very briefly,
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per reminders vampire list out every week. We only have three more episodes left. Very sad.
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Sheesh.
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But here we go. We're barreling towards the end of the tour.
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Yeah.
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B
How's the dragon, though?
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That's right.
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B
I mean, we're only two episodes into this season of House of the Dragon. We got a lot more coming.
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Sure do talk.
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The Thrones for episode two already exists in your feed. You can find that. That happened on Sunday night. And then tomorrow is our deep dive.
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Yes.
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Will it be as unhinged as last week's deep dive? One can only hope and dream.
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I hope so. I had a great time.
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I had the best time. Let's try to match that energy. Okay, Mallory.
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Yes.
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How can folks get all of their dragon and vampire needs from us?
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Follow the Pod.
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Why not?
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That's it. That's all you have to do. Follow the Pod on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. But you can watch full video episodes of House of R and the Midnight Boys. Pew pew. On Spotify. You can also watch full video episodes on the Ringerverse YouTube channel. So follow along there as well. While you're at it, follow us on social. We have newish. I don't know when we have to retire new. This is always something we. Sometimes we keep new in the mix
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for a year and a half. Why not?
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We'll see what feels right. New ish. Social handles. Ouseofarpod on Instagram and TikTok. We've got breakouts from the pods. We have fun photos. We have graphics. We have all sorts of things going on. Some memes.
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Social first stuff.
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That's right.
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Dragon math can only be found on our socials.
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That's right. Little Beautiful Mind action with the.
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That's great. It's a great ad from Joan.
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Wonderful stuff.
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All right. And then hobbitsanddragonsmail.com as we already mentioned. Tiki bars or anything else you have in store for us. That's right. Spoiler warning. Today's podcast will be informed by our knowledge of the books the Vampire, Lestat and the Queen of the Damned. Not to mention Interview with the Vampire. But no book direct spoilers until the very end. We will have a book spoiler section with a sound that will delight and titillate you but not give you a cardiac event.
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Right? Yes. And I have no book knowledge, so it's a delight and titillate. But not give me a cardiac event experience for me as well. Can't wait.
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Let's go now to our opening snapshot.
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Let's do It.
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Episode 4, Devil's Road. Mallory Rubin, did you like this episode of Television?
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I did. I'm having a great time with the season. I think episode three was still the.
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The.
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The high bar. That was just exquisite. But we're keeping the momentum going in a way. Excited by. I feel like there's a lot of really intriguing mid season. Oh, we can feel we're moving toward the next like major event kind of stuff happening in this episode. But as is so often the case with Interview with the Vampire, into the vampire Lestat, the intrigue, the action, the harbingers of doom are all entwined with these lovely character beats. The humor continues to mix with the horror in a way that I just find really expert and astonishing. I have some questions for you about blood shower hygiene that I don't know when is the right time in the pod to get into that. You let me know.
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B
We can do it right now if you want.
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A
Okay, here's my question.
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Yeah.
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Obviously very memorable scene. A very effective and memorable sequence. I have basically no notes on that front.
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B
Except. You have a few notes.
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A
I have questions. Yeah. Okay. So the blood shower comes down. We are in. I'd say never has a character on television been such an effective audience avatar as Armand in that moment. Are speaking of the generous endowment and just doing this. We are.
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Ahmad Armad is us. Correct.
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Wonderful. It's nice to feel seen, known and understood.
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Representation matters. Yeah.
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Great stuff. Okay, the blood shower comes down and then there is a very brief period of cleansing with water. A rinse off a spritz. Yeah. No soap.
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No. And he doesn't even get all the blood.
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Does he not reek of blood? Like part of what I understand in my heart and soul despite never having inhabited the same physical space as Lestat, to be true, is that he smells like cinnamon and cotton candy and you think cotton candy and bubblegum sandalwood and whatever smells good to you. I just feel like he probably smells delicious to everyone.
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Oh, this is like Harry Potter situation where it's like whatever. Your most favorite smell. That's what exactly could be that. I think he smells like patchouli. Bloody precum ylang ylang. You know?
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Yeah. So does he just smell like iron
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and like, I would not be surprised if he constantly kind of smells a little rusty.
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Okay. Tough to know.
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B
We did get an email from a lister. I didn't include it, but they were sharing some anecdote from the T. Rex. The band T Rex has been referred to a couple times.
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Yes.
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My delight. Mark Boland is the Lead singer of that band. He said there's an anecdote from Mark Bolan that, like, people were so excited by the T. Rex experience. Yeah. That they would just, like, piss themselves in the audience. And the. And the T. Rex shows just, like, smelled a piss. Like, they didn't want to leave to go to the bathroom, so they just, like, peed themselves or they were too excited or this is, you know, like not, not. Not on the right drugs or like, whatever the case may be. I don't know. But like that. And so our listener was like, what do you think the vampire Lestat shows smell like? That mix of, like, bloody pre plus sweat plus whatever.
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My. Yep.
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And welcome to our podcast.
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A
But, like, my being here with us,
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my thing after the shower is like, why even bother with the rinse? Because he does the rinse off, but he doesn't even, like, get, like, there's so blood, like, watery blood on his back. And that's just going to, like. But then. And then when he gets on stage to do his Big Boss performance with details and the incredible makeup.
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Fantastic.
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There's, like, blood.
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Yeah.
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There is crust on his neck.
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Well, it probably mixes oddly with the glitter.
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Sure. You know, wow. That glitter never comes out, I'll tell you that much right now.
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Especially not if it's caked in blood.
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Caked in. Crusted in blood.
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Yeah. Yeah.
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Sam Reed gave an anecdote about the blood shower. He said when they were first showing him what it would be like, they put like a. Like a test dummy underneath. And they're like, this is what it'll look like. And he was like, that dummy was like sand blasted with blood. And I was just like, I can't perform a scene with this much.
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The dialogue.
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Blood, like, pouring, like, shooting down on me. So he's like, they turned off the outer ring and it was just like the center. And he's like. So we could just.
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That's why he's doing that.
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Yeah. Do the, like, around the blood thing.
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So it worked.
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Yeah, it did. But I just, like, I would love to see the behind the scenes footage of that. Of that, like, test dummy just getting, like, absolutely blasted by blood in the blood shower.
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Incredible stuff. I wonder if there was any commentary on whether the dog had a generous endowment or if that left was left unremarked upon. I think on the tour bus hygiene front. Also feels worth noting here in the opening snapshot where we set the stage and hit the real top level highlights that one of the funniest moments in the history of television was when he walked by one of the cameraman documentary and he's like, shit and die. Which in an open air shared tour bus experience I think is appropriate feedback.
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I don't know that I've ever noticed that there was a. Just a toilet right there.
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Shit and die.
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Like, like the showers in the middle of the room. We know that we've seen many people shower in there. But there's a toilet.
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Yes.
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Just right there in the middle of the room with no. You know, and the cameraman's like, oh, oops.
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You know, I feel like he had started the process and it just sort
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of like midpoint back up or like whatever. In fearlessat. I don't know.
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A lot of toilet bowl action this episode too, because of the cocaine, you know, and we got a good sense of the geography of the bus. I had a better feel for the floor pants. Oh, the upstairs. The upstairs.
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B
You know, that was helpful.
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Made me feel like I was touring London. But by watching Lestat tell people not to take shits and then.
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Oh, because of the double decker bus situation.
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Got it.
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Love it. All right, quick corrections. I also love this episode. I also think season three was sort of the high water mark so far this season. But something that I love about the show and you know, not everyone is loving this, but I love about the show is like, again, I can't get the closed captionings to work on my. On my screeners, which is fine, but it really just means that it takes me like hours to watch this show because I just like pause to write things down and go back and re. Listen and I'm like, it's Daniel Malloy shouting out the names of Pulitzer Prize winning journalist says he's bowling. Is that what's happening right now? But it's just going so quickly.
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There's so much.
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It's so dense in a way that I really love because it just feels like a treasure trove for me to root through like a truffle pig. But like, sorry, that's a Cape Fear reference. But I think that something I was thinking about, you know, this episode is credited to Jonathan Cheniserowitz. Maybe something like that anyway. Probably really butchered that. But there is just a, like a patter, a patois to like every single episode that reminds me of something like Buffy the Vampire Slayer where Joss Whedon used to give every episode like a, like a top pass. Right? Or just sort of like the rhythm of the show and the jokes per minute and all that sort of stuff came from like one singular Mind. And I have to wonder if, like, Rollin Jones, like, does a similar thing where, like, the humor is so singular and so fast and so sharp that it really feels like it. I don't. I don't want to take Rob credit from anyone else on the writing staff, and I believe in large and robust writers rooms, but it really does feel like one person's voice is shining through in these episodes. And it. And it's like one of my favorite voices in television. It really works for me. So.
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A
Yeah. And I also think it's one of the ways where in a television adaptation that is distinct and singular, it also feels very much like novel esque. Right. Where like, an author is giving you a version of the universe. And I agree, like, you know, the episodes vary, certainly, but there is a clarity of tone and a cohesion episode to episode in, like, the pace and the clip. Yeah, I was hearing you say that. It makes me think of one of the Buffy anecdotes you shared. God can't remember. It would have been season three or season four. Cause it was one of the more recent Buffy pods. But about how some character at some point got a line. Like a Zander line.
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Yeah.
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A
For Willow, you can't have, like, that's a Xander line, right?
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B
Yeah. You can't just, like, give a Zander line to Willow because Willow doesn't have a line in this scene.
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A
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Like, Lestat's lines are unmistakably Lestat's lines. Louis lines are unmistakably Louis lines. It's actually one of the interesting things about being in a place now with this, like, Regina, Claudia.
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He's gonna say the exact same thing
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where you're like, wait, I'm so. In a really good, satisfying, fun way as a viewer clearly intentionally destabilized and disoriented by this. Because there are moments for us, for Louis, where you are just, like, enraptured and deceive yourself into thinking, or maybe you're like, should my theory brand be going, like, am I with Claudia? And then there are moments where you're pulled out of that very intentionally. And that's been quite fun. I thought that this was one of the better Daniel showcases on this front, too, this episode, for just giving. I mean, the bowling scene was very fun and everything, but, like, the taking over the steps from Armand, the pitch in Boghossian's voice, the rage and the real feeling of, like, betrayal and terror, you know, that Daniel feels in that moment, but also with that kind of, like, for Daniel, something that can never really, it feels like, be stifled for too long even in his moments of uncertainty. Which is like, I'm gonna tell you why I know best.
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B
You know, why I'm smarter than you.
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A
Yeah. It was captured so effectively in that sequence. So I'm excited about that.
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B
Similarly, having Armand here, you know, like, I just. I really missed him and I loved having him here. Quick, corrections department, slash, info department. The CN Tower collapse that happened in last week's episode was apparently only in Lestat's mind, per Rollin Jones. And we had listeners point out that, like, the tower collapses, then later you see Lestat drive by it and it's, like, back up and intact. So this was sort of like a psychic reflection of the turbulence of Lestat's mind and not something that, like, a big bad vampire accomplished or something like that. We had been floating some theories. I don't know that I fully grasp that. But I'll be interested to see if that plays out in other landmark locations. You know, is Lestat bringing other skyscrapers, toppling? I don't know, but I thought that was kind of strange and interesting.
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A
Especially in a show where we're moving in and out of time so much and sometimes just cutting very quickly to flashes from other periods on, like, given
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B
timeline, like the harbor flashes that happen in this episode. A very, like, important moment for Lestat that we don't understand what's happening until we see the moment. And last but not least, you might have already tracked this, but, like, fun fact, Lestat says something different after the opening credits song every week. Last week is the first week I noticed him saying, like, well, that was a piece of shit or something like that about the song. And I was like, oh, has he been saying that every week and I just missed it? But no, he says something different every week. And this week he said, did you hear that, Armand? At the end of the opening credits song? So something to track. Love it. Let's go now to our deepish dive. Calling this section, hey, Big Bus, AKA the Marginal Mystery Tour. We're gonna do just, like, kind of all the bus tour stuff here as much as we can, right? So we get this, like, ups, you know, this is called the Devil's Road. We get this upside down shot of the freeway. Very reminiscent of the Immortal Universe. Upside down New Orleans, like, opening that we had in seasons one and two.
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A
Did it make you think of Agatha, our beloved Agatha and the Witches Road as well? Especially paired with music and just the idea of kind of like, what is and unknown and what is A trial and what is a test?
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B
I think, you know, I'm always thinking about witches.
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A
I've got always on the mind. Yeah.
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B
Always thinking about witches.
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A
Witch stuff. Go. Would you say always?
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B
We get a shot of both a Joey Chestnut, who is a competitive eater, who was mentioned earlier in the season, and an Elon Musk bobblehead.
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A
Yeah.
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B
An Elon Musk bobblehead is, like, one of the worst bobbleheads I could possibly contemplate. What's the worst bobblehead that you can think of?
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A
Oh, God.
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B
Is it a sports figure that you hate, like an enemy of thine or Orioles or Ravens or something like that? Or.
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A
In terms of what would really upset me to be, like, around in a contained space every day? It would probably be a bobblehead of the camera guy from the documentary crew taking a shit in an open space. That would be pretty upsetting.
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B
Just like his ass wobbling over the bowl. Elon's a good candidate for really hard to top Elon. That's the toughest one.
- [17:53]
A
The Joey Chestnut one is so funny. The fact that that's come up multiple times this season is incredible.
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B
Any thoughts? We get sort of like a montage of, like, this is what it's like to be a rock band on the road. A montage. Love that. Like, Tough Cookie has a groupie in her lap and stuff like that. Wonderful. Wanna talk about Salamander? Wanna talk about anything? I always love Salamander that's going on in this hedonistic sort of montage we get.
- [18:15]
A
This is a good example. It's a visual version of what you were talking about with, like, the density, in a great way of the show where, like, you're listening, you're watching. You could rewind and rewatch the opening, I don't know, like, 4ish minutes of the show and spend three hours just trying to parse every detail, both in an auditory and a visual capacity. Y And it's really fun to go back and do that.
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B
The.
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A
And to think, like, are these. What is being paired intentionally? When we get a Lestat voiceover with what we're seeing? There is a certain aspect of it where just giving yourself over to Christine, snorting coke off of, like, the neck of a prone man pinned beneath her with a condom, like, wrapped around his ear.
- [19:01]
B
It's like a used condom. Yeah.
- [19:03]
A
Any level that you choose to watch the show on is probably gonna be rewarding. I also quite enjoyed let's get the guy to watch you choke me. Yeah.
- [19:12]
B
This was a great Christine episode.
- [19:15]
A
Well, I'M concerned.
- [19:17]
B
Oh, I think she's fine.
- [19:19]
A
I hope so.
- [19:20]
B
She was just, like, chewing people out while they were, like, scratching her wounds.
- [19:24]
A
Yeah, she had some feedback on the bullet. The bullet wound care.
- [19:27]
B
I was just like. I just like that. She was just, like, being a ball buster till at the bitter end. I think she's fine, but I hope.
- [19:32]
A
I sure hope so. You're not ready to say goodbye. She did seem okay.
- [19:35]
B
Yeah.
- [19:35]
A
Yeah. More annoyed. Yeah.
- [19:36]
B
More irritated than anything else. Lestat pronunciation watch. Please rank these for me. Chipotle.
- [19:45]
A
That was great.
- [19:47]
B
A return of a classic red meat for Redit, still my favorite. And Worcestershire, Massachusetts. Is it Redit for you? It's it.
- [19:57]
A
That one has yet to be topped because I think it is just. There's something about it that just absolutely kills me in a way I can't quite explain. I think it's the way that he's trying to take something like Reddit and make it feel very, like, posh and target. Exactly, exactly. So that just kills me. I love it. I think the fact that we went from the Worcester pronunciation lesson into his ridiculous. Into receiving the text update from Sophie about, oh, look, she's getting her twat lasered. That overall stretch was tough to top. And the way she typed it was, I'm having my lawn scorched. And he knew what that meant.
- [20:38]
B
He did. He's like, I've received.
- [20:40]
A
Because they're very close. They are very close.
- [20:43]
B
I think. I think red meat for Redeet. Incredible. Just making it like, sort of like a rhyming couplet makes it even better. All right. The Talamaska bot army. Lestat gives this direct address to whomever is listening to the failures. And it's once again a nod to how obscenely rich this person might be.
- [21:02]
A
Right.
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B
Like, we got the gilded bathtub reference earlier. Right? And like, obviously if you won this bidding war, you have a ton of money to spend, but he said, should your privileged purse strings become interested in pursuing the actual truth of our recent apocalyptic adversities.
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A
Yeah.
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B
Ominous.
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A
Uh huh.
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B
Look no further than that. Watchful order of the river of discreet money flowing in dark directions of the Talamasca, using their money to boost engagement with the band. Any theories as to. I don't know the answer to this? Yeah, I was gonna ask you what
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A
you thought this was.
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B
This is not a foundational, like, book information I have, but I would guess with this sort of great conversion, like, it seems like it's aligned with what Gabriella's intention is, which is like, the more Lestat Sings. Yes. And the more his message is spread via song.
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A
Yeah.
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B
And now, per the end of the episode, hopefully an album that's right.
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A
In the studio at last.
- [21:57]
B
Yeah. The more Magnus will be so pleased, the more the vampires of the world will get encouraged to bite and make more. So is that. Is the Talamaska pro. Great conversion? Like, does that make.
- [22:12]
A
Does that feel right to you? Does that make sense?
- [22:15]
B
Clearly they seem to, like, be trying to keep, like, a lid on all the vampire activity. Right.
- [22:20]
A
Yeah.
- [22:21]
B
I don't know.
- [22:21]
A
The idea of them. Yeah. Fueling the bots and spreading the. The word and reach. And it is interesting to see just the kind of, like, obviously, the voices and that stretch with Lestat and Gabrielle at the end here. The voices and the way we can track the swing.
- [22:35]
B
Right. Right in. And the beginning of the season.
- [22:38]
A
Yeah. It's like, you shouldn't be doing this. And even again, to have, like, the Great Laws invoked directly in this episode. And then, see, okay, we have Lestat, we have Louis. We have our direct touch points for, like, fuck your rules. Like, I'll do what I want. It's been a really long time. This is pretty outmoded. But to see that wider effect where, like, the voices were saying, don't do this. It's wrong. You're imperiling us into. You have allowed us to tap into something about our vampiric nature that feels right. Gabriella is directly trying to wield Lestat. That scalpel. Right. Point him to cut the path that she wants. So we should be concerned. I thought the cuts from him looking at his, like, the bullet wound in his hand into the flashes at the lake and. And connecting these. Because we had flashback to see these, like, moments about the way that Gabriella talks about evil. Right. So everything about Gabriella and her intention of wanting to spread evil and wanting to fuel the Great Conversion feels clear. The Talamasca's involvement, motivation for swelling the ranks is something that I've, I think, less of a. A good read on.
- [23:45]
B
I don't understand at all. Especially because it seemed like when. When Raglan was sending and. And to be clear, I don't know that we should feel certain that Raglan's goals are aligned with the Telemaski at large. Goals, you know, but, like, Raglan is the one who sends Louis after Bruce, and he was sort of talking about indiscriminate, you know, turning of people and stuff like that. So here's a quote from season one, the first time. The idea of the Great Conversion, which, to be clear, Is a show idea, not a book idea. Sort of related to some book ideas, but there's nowhere in Anne Rice's books does the phrase the great Conversion occur. But this is Luby talking about the state of vampirism in season one to Daniel. He says just the opposite. Most of them are slaves to the blood. Exhausted from decades, centuries of hiding, giddy to increase their numbers. Pandemic, the unraveling of geopolitical foundations. One of them, a brute in Madagascar, called it the Great Conversion. So, like, this idea of, like, vampires tired of hiding. And this goes back, you know, obviously inside of this episode. Armand's like, hey, Lestat, shut the fuck up. Because you are spurring this on. And Armand's agenda has always been, let's keep it under wraps. You know what I mean? That was his whole thing in Paris, which is why he, like, kidnapped Nikki in the first place. Is that like, Lestat was being too obvious? And he's like, we gotta hide underground. And Lestat has always been like, why should we hide ourselves when we are such beautiful, godlike creatures? You know, Armand, also a God in this episode, so quite.
- [25:25]
A
Alex, I've got some questions about Alix. Yeah,
- [25:30]
B
shout out Acab Lestat. When this officer and his dog Delilah board the truck, the bus. Incredible montage of them trying to like, can I eat this much cocaine? And then just, like, dumping it down his throat. Anyway, they got rid of so much cocaine and there was still a giant bowl of cocaine on the table is just, like, extraordinary.
- [25:49]
A
Made me think of. Of Greg in succession, you know, I hope you don't die. It's like, that's a lot of coke.
- [25:55]
B
That's a lot of Coke. Ms. Whittlestat says, the body cam. Democracy's compact mirror. Incredible line. And then you. You need your expansive interpretation of the Fourth Amendment to do your job properly.
- [26:07]
A
I just.
- [26:08]
B
I really loved this exchange. I thought it was incredible, the, like, dusting of the cocaine on the officer's face. The, like, mention of, like, if you took my blood, if you tested my blood, it would be weird.
- [26:17]
A
Yes.
- [26:17]
B
Your department would be under scrutiny. You know, like, blah, blah. So, like, Lestat sends him away for their own self interest and Christine being like, get the body cam. Like, for their own self interest. But also, like, you know, he doesn't just, like, kill him, right? He just sort of, like, sends him away. He's like, you should take more time off. You should care about your home life. 35 hour work week, you know? So say we all.
- [26:39]
A
It's cocaine. We're A rock band. And we needed to do our job properly.
- [26:45]
B
So just like, matter of, we needed to do our job.
- [26:47]
A
And I loved too right on the. The right before that. Because he's like, it's cocaine. And Christine's like, whoa, yeah, allow me to do my job and protect us. And for basically two and a half seconds, he plays the good boy. And then it's like, no, it is actually just cocaine. And we knew it needed to do our jobs properly. And the way that they get to, like, it's fun now on the heels of the band, a couple episodes in understanding the fuller truth. To watch the way they watch him and to, like, think about how they are processing this. I think especially because it feels like something probably pretty bad is happening with Alex. And then you think of, like, Larry is not just his bandmate, but his brother. Then you have something like Lestat observing in this stretch of this episode was like, the first time TC thought maybe I could be a vampire. And if that isn't like, a perfect encapsulation of the really organic, great conversion effect. People are watching Lestat behave as a vampire and saying, that seems fun.
- [27:46]
B
Yeah, TC would be a great vampire.
- [27:49]
A
Fantastic.
- [27:51]
B
I love. Inside of this episode, we've been talking about sort of the evolution of their sound, the evolution of their music, watching inspirations for certain songs. The way this episode opens with Salamander and TCE pitching this song, Big Bus, about the tour bus. A horrible song. Hysterical that Lestat is giving, like, complex musical notes that I don't understand because I'm not a musician on. But like this sort of like very cheerleader, cunty, sort of like flipping their ponytail vibe that they're trying to go for. This song turns into Big Boss, the song he sings. So Big Bus becomes Big Boss. But it just. It reminded me of like,
- [28:30]
A
Jasmin kind
- [28:31]
B
of was talking about this when we did this sort of like, preseason episode, talking about the Beatles documentary Get Back. And one of the great joys of that was watching them sort of like noodle over songs and, like, take a song, you know, and. And sort of like trying out various lyrics that all sound wrong until they lock in on the eventual lyrics that we all have memorized. Because we know these Beatles songs, but hearing them and they're sort of like proto phase. And you're like, oh, no, what if that's how that. What if that's the. You know, how something. The lyrics to something had stayed or whatever. So, like, watching Lestat take the shitty big Bus and turn it into Big Boss, a Song that I really liked. Really fun.
- [29:13]
A
Yeah.
- [29:13]
B
A banger.
- [29:13]
A
Great diss track. I'm sure that our bond to. As you just noted, really would prefer things to be kept on the DL. Loved being publicly revealed.
- [29:23]
B
Loved it.
- [29:24]
A
Not only in front of the assembled in the room, but as we know that is now being distributed via bot to masses Daniels filming one of the shot. Quick shots we get of Louis as he is, let's just say it, stalking Regina, which I'm excited to talk about today. Some concerning stuff from our guy Louie. He's just like watching clips of Lestat on his phone, which is obviously for their relationship. Wonderful. But it did. You know, there's something kind of inescapable about. And you know, the fact that the like the record label stuff. Sony, Warner, 4 body, who. And then this guy's like, I hadn't heard about you. I didn't know who you were three days ago. Yeah, right. That of course gave me like, is the Talamasca engineering this vibe? So. Without question. But like, you know, the band is.
- [30:09]
B
They're blowing up four Body is interesting to me because I was like, is this. I don't know so little about the music industry that I'm like, is this real? Are the Bethany's a real band?
- [30:17]
A
Show us your tits. Show us your tits.
- [30:19]
B
They do not appear to be, per my googling, but if I'm wrong, let me know. But I could not find a band called the Bethanys. But I kind of wish they existed. Sounds great to me. What do we want to say about Alex here or elsewhere?
- [30:30]
A
I'm concerned.
- [30:31]
B
Yeah. So do you feel like he's how Armand got on the bus? Not that I suspect. It's like very hard. Hard to get on that bus necessarily, but especially if you're Armand.
- [30:40]
A
But like, I mean, it's okay. So it feels like a few things are true at once right now.
- [30:44]
B
Right.
- [30:45]
A
Armand is in a certain state. Right. He is like, he's. I think there is at least something genuine happening with this period of reflection.
- [30:59]
B
Yeah.
- [30:59]
A
Right. It seems like certainly when he is saying to Daniel, I hurt you more than I've hurt. Like, the thing I did to you was the worst I've done. Whether or not that's true is obviously open for debate, but. And the love that I felt that was distracting me was not for Louis, it's for you. It feels like everything that's happening there is genuine.
- [31:17]
B
Yeah. And Asad, the actor has said as much, which is fascinating.
- [31:21]
A
Very interesting to watch that. I think what has always been fun about Armand and what was particularly fun in the middle and back half of season two is watching the way. And, you know, all of these characters are different and unique, but they have, like, this through line. Right. And it's the thing we've been talking about this whole season and why the idea of, like, rock star songwriter, public figure who is, like, trying to correct the record is so perfect as, like, a vessel to explore these ideas. They all have some genuine truth that they're carrying, and they all are trying to package that in a way that suits their means and their ends. Right. So I think that, like, when we watch Armand with Daniel in San Francisco, is that what makes you fascinating? Obviously, something stuck from that exchange and a seed was planted that bloomed. But, like, he has felt often wronged, cast aside, diminished. And I think that those feelings of inadequacy and fear and, like, that sense of being mistreated are legit. Then what he does with those feelings is often awful. And that is also true. And I don't think it's like an accident that we were reminded yet again in this episode that the theater was a trial that resulted in actual death and that he was not only complicit in it, but a puppet master of it.
- [32:42]
B
Right.
- [32:42]
A
The playwright, the guiding hand. Yes. So I don't think it's both the play. So, like, I don't think it's. It is impossible. I think whether Armand is finding something actually cathartic and therapeutic. He healing about the process of working through the steps. Whether he actually is like, I am an addict. I should take that seriously. Seems entirely plausible to me that that's true. It is implausible to me that he wound up in a room with one of Lestat's bandmates accidentally, obviously. Right. So it's also true that he's seeking out that proximity to Alex, contingencies and that relationship with Alex for a reason. And now Alex is not just like, I'm. You're in my. This circle. We're in group together. But he's like, you're not just my sponsor. I don't use that word. Telling Larry, his brother he's a God. God. So Armand has a stint hold on him. Yeah.
- [33:30]
B
And the way he's looking at him when he's on stage performing and stuff like that.
- [33:36]
A
Is it to have a way to compromise the band? Is it just about proximity gained and access to Lestat?
- [33:43]
B
Yeah. I don't know. Listen, One of my favorite sort of like, meme templates. So the scene of Daniel and Armand in the bowling alley. Was like, running around all my socials last night.
- [33:59]
A
Fun.
- [34:00]
B
And as soon as Saturday night when it dropped on amc. And plus and I just get served a lot of interview vampire stuff. But one of my favorite meme responses to anything is, oh, sure, blame the guy whose fault it is. You know, there's like all these Armand defenders, but that was like, one of my favorite. Oh, sure, blame the guy whose fault this is. All right. Speaking of Daniel.
- [34:26]
A
Yeah.
- [34:26]
B
Sloppy thirds for the vampire Bourdain.
- [34:29]
A
Just amazing. It's. It is uncanny.
- [34:34]
B
I mean, yeah, yeah. The way the Bosian, especially as Daniel, like, reminds us of Anthony Bourdain. Sure. Really fun to call that out. I also think sloppy third is like, an incredible phrase to like, just slam it all together just to be, you know, the mind that just comes up with sloppy thirst for the vampire Bourdain. And the way that Lestat stares down the documentary camera when he says it. The vampire Bourdain, like, is just really delicious.
- [34:57]
A
Delicious.
- [34:58]
B
All right, the ghost of Nikki, or the muse, Nikki, if you prefer, sticks around in this episode. How is that concept working for you here to have Nikki haunting this episode?
- [35:08]
A
I thought that it was effectively deployed here, you know, sort of in little bursts, not like, you know, massive giant sequences. In part because we have a lot of Lestat Gabriella flashback work to do in this episode, much of which will take place naked and in bed.
- [35:27]
B
Tough.
- [35:28]
A
Looking forward to discussing that shortly. Tough.
- [35:33]
B
Not a fan.
- [35:34]
A
You were on my mind.
- [35:35]
B
Was I?
- [35:36]
A
You were. As you so often are. When we watch relatives fuck each other on the television shows that we cover.
- [35:43]
B
It's incest, Summer baby.
- [35:44]
A
But the kind of, like, inversion of a great love, not your first love concept.
- [35:51]
B
How do you interpret that?
- [35:53]
A
So. Cause Lestat is saying in this stretch, right? He. First of all, right away, we're like, just. He's in a period of active lies in this stretch. Because he's like, I welcome it. Why let the past stay in the past? That is obviously not true in terms of how he is processing this or struggling to process it. And then the comparison he makes between Gabriella and Nikki also, objectively, we know a lot, right? And we know this in a lot of ways. We know it because she's around now. I am curious by the way, like, when Daniel is gonna piece this together because it feels like Pulitzer Prize winning journalists, like, can't be far away. He's like, why didn't you. Why aren't you just reaching out with your mind, right? Like, he's asking questions that are leading Him, I think toward. Not necessarily. It might be harder for him to piece together the mother. This is. Oh, is this your mother who you're pretending didn't take to vampirism and is dead. But, like, he should be pretty close to figuring out that Lestat is her maker.
- [36:49]
B
I think Ron and Farrow are. Already would have figured it out. Glenn Greenwald already would have figured it out.
- [36:54]
A
I mean, Daniel, we know you've got some other stuff you're working through, but let's go, man. So, you know, he compares her to Nikki, right? And he's like, she took. Like Nikki did, meaning poorly, couldn't handle this, right? He's like, she wouldn't feed. I had to carry her to coffin, et cetera, et cetera.
- [37:09]
B
She wouldn't talk. And then we get Gabrielle just like yada, yada, yada in the carriage, right?
- [37:14]
A
Relishing, as she still does to this day, every aspect of this heightened, godlike. I get to decide. I'd like it to be Dante's Inferno, but not just priests talking about it. Let's actually bring hell to Earth, right? She's loving it.
- [37:30]
B
Mother's throttling babies.
- [37:31]
A
She can't.
- [37:32]
B
Let's do it.
- [37:32]
A
Wait, so the idea that then right on the heels of that, Nikki's the ghost muse. Nikki is like a great love, not your first love. And the kind of continued melding of the Nikki Gabriella effect on him in these formative years.
- [37:48]
B
So when Lestat was talking about Nikki in last week's episode, he said, my first love, not a great love. That's how he described Nikki. Tough for ghost Nikki meets Nikki to absorb that. Um, so is he saying that like a great. A great love, not your first love, saying that, like, Gabriella is Lestat's great love, but not his first love, his first love being Nikki? Or is he saying I was a great love, but I wasn't your first love?
- [38:13]
A
Because your mom, your first love was actually your mom.
- [38:15]
B
And that's gross.
- [38:16]
A
I think that.
- [38:17]
B
Yeah. So it felt to me.
- [38:19]
A
Yeah.
- [38:20]
B
Because the wolf. Wolf wound tending scene comes up in this episode where he's like, we're mother and son. But also.
- [38:26]
A
Yeah, you had your hand on my inner thigh. Something else. I liked it. I liked it. I thought Nikki, like, painting with his stomp later was also.
- [38:35]
B
He wrote Marius.
- [38:36]
A
Yeah. There were like three or four Marius references in this or direct mentions in this episode.
- [38:42]
B
So, yeah, I would say notable. Auspicious. Okay. How is Daniel's demeanor here post humiliation in episode three for you? Like, you know, he's just falling right back into this interview, interviewee situation. He's like, let's see how much we can blame on dear old mom, you know, all this sort of stuff like that.
- [39:02]
A
Yeah.
- [39:02]
B
But he is also bowling by himself and shouting the name. I just find this, like, solo bowling. I've never tried it. Maybe it is like, I don't think so. Okay.
- [39:12]
A
It's a group activity in your mind.
- [39:13]
B
I think so. Because like, and maybe, maybe I love to hear from the bad babies who are like, I love a therapeutic solo bowl. But like, I would go to a restaurant alone. I would, I'd definitely go to the movies alone. I love to do that. There's a lot of things that, like, people feel weird about doing alone that I love to do alone. But like, like bowling. Just because you're like, surrounded by like all these other people who are like, in their groups on their teams, and you're just like, just me, yeah. And my bowling ball and my bins. And then he's just shouting the name of other journalists. I'm like, what, what would, what do you think you would shout if you were to shout names out? As you were sort of like, for a second I was trying to connect a pattern because I was like, I was like, okay, this journalist has this many Pulitzers.
- [39:54]
A
Is he like, yeah, no, but is
- [39:57]
B
he like saying the number of pins he knocked over, Is this three time Pulitzer pride? But I could not make it map. So that was incorrect. But it's just sort of like he's calling out other journalists names. Are you calling out podcaster names?
- [40:11]
A
Yeah. Well, so like, are these.
- [40:13]
B
What's the name? I don't know.
- [40:14]
A
Are these heroes? Are these idols, competitors, or are they people? You're like, come on. Yeah, it's us. We're like, we're chasing each other. We're in a hunt.
- [40:24]
B
Yeah.
- [40:25]
A
Like, you know, I think that would probably impact my choice. If I were shouting heroes. I'd probably just shout a bunch of the, like, sports writers who I used to, you know, worship who made me want to get into sports journalism in the first place. I'd be bowling. I'd probably throw a gutter ball now. I'm from Maryland. You have to remember duck pin bowling.
- [40:41]
B
What's that?
- [40:42]
A
It's the small ball. Maryland's a duck pin bowling state.
- [40:47]
B
Duck pin.
- [40:47]
A
Duck pin bowling. Yeah. Okay, so you have like the small ball almost like, I mean, I don't know what the comparative exact, like conference and weight, but almost like more of like a, like a shot put ball. But a little bit. And then. Yeah, and you. And they're smaller pins, so you can, like, hold your hand. You don't have finger holes, but you could also do the regular bowling.
- [41:03]
B
Are they, like.
- [41:05]
A
I think I know what.
- [41:06]
B
Pin bowling. So it's just like pinball. Like, are the. Are the pins, like, more straight up and down? What's Skittles?
- [41:14]
A
The candy. Hold on. Skittles of bowling type. Not familiar. Not familiar. So I would be duck pin bowling. And if I were shouting hero names, I would shout, like, Thomas Boswell, Gary Smith. You know, I would do that probably. What about you?
- [41:31]
B
Oh, Skittles is a long game involving pins from which modern bullying is descended. I think it's a UK thing.
- [41:36]
A
Did they name the candy after that?
- [41:38]
B
Probably. I can't imagine that it's a coincidence. As far as I know, you do not taste the rainbow when you play this game. But who's to say? I feel like I would scream out the name of like. Like musical composers. I'd be like, sondheim.
- [41:51]
A
That's what you're chasing. Yeah.
- [41:53]
B
Hammer sticking.
- [41:53]
A
It's the North Star. I love it. I thought that Daniel. Weirdly.
- [41:58]
B
Okay, sorry.
- [42:00]
A
I liked Daniel in a bowling alley alone. It felt so weird in a way that felt right. Like, Daniel's so weird, and I think that he. I would not find it necessarily credible if he went to, like, a punching bag to take out his aggression, but I think he's got something he's working through and so being able to hurl
- [42:19]
B
a heavy object that he wished was ahead. Maybe.
- [42:22]
A
Yeah. Without consequence, to try to get some of the feelings out that felt right. And then the idea of that contrast actually, like, it's not a place you think of going solo. So, you know, he's very alone. He's feeling extra alone when everybody is sucked out of the space that he's happening at a given moment.
- [42:40]
B
We didn't comment on this, but last week, when he was. I think it's last week, post interview humiliation. He just, like, attacks someone, is just like noshing on someone in an alleyway. Do you feel like that's the equivalent of, like, someone just, like, binge eating a pint of ice cream in front of an open fridge, that he's just sort of like, I'm meeting my feelings.
- [42:56]
A
I mean, maybe, but also, like, you know, these vampires have to feed.
- [43:00]
B
Well, yeah. But, like, there was something quite sloppy and just sort of like. Yeah, you know, a little unrefined about just like. Like, he's eating his feelings. Yeah.
- [43:09]
A
I don't consider it sloppy and unrefined to eat a pint of ice cream out of the freezer. As you know, I consider it my evening routine.
- [43:15]
B
I know you do, but you don't stand in front of the open freezer and do it. That's the added level of disorder.
- [43:20]
A
It is brought to me by my doting husband and I receive it under my fleece blanket on the couch when
- [43:26]
B
it's heaven feeding you grapes and waving a palm front.
- [43:29]
A
This is his version of that. Definitely. For sure.
- [43:32]
B
The Devil's Road. So that's the name of this episode. The Devil's Road is the name of the section of the book when Gabrielle and Lestat leave Paris. Nikki's still alive in the book version. And seek out the deeper truth of vampirism, its origin and its history. That's why Marius, Armand's maker, gets a couple mentions in this episode and the last episode when. When they were in the box and Gabrielle's like, who's older than you? Your maker.
- [43:53]
A
Marius, you're really nailing it.
- [43:56]
B
Thank you. Wow. Yeah. So, like, we get a bunch of Marius hints in this episode, but they're seeking. In the book, they're seeking him. They're seeking his knowledge. So that's not sort of the stated intent of the show version, but that's what's happening on. On the. In the book version. In from the book quote, the Devil. The Devil's Road gets mentioned a couple times by other vampires before this section of the book. But quote, you are. This comes from an older female vampire to Lestat and Gabrielle, you are on the Devil's Road to a great adventure. What right have I to intervene in what the centuries have in store for you? And then Lestat in his inner monologue is like the Devil's Road. It was the first phrase from any of them that had rung a clarion in my soul. And then Gabrielle's like, devil's Road. That sounds sick. We should do that.
- [44:45]
A
Yeah.
- [44:46]
B
Mother's side adventure. Let's do it. You want to talk about this night that they share at an inn on the Devil's Road? This seems to be their first official sexual congress. That's not what I was going to say. Sexual congress. But you said fuck. And both are two true.
- [45:02]
A
It's a mother and a son. I don't think we need to be delicate about it. Be delicate about it.
- [45:08]
B
That's deeply fair.
- [45:09]
A
Oh, man. Boy, this was quite something. I. I was thinking back to our discussion after the premiere when we witnessed them couple there he is in the
- [45:30]
B
bowels of the pleasure motel.
- [45:34]
A
Just so. And you know, then in obviously episode two, we moved on to the wolf wound salve application and talking about, you know, what is how much of this is the grooming and Gabriella's narcissism. And that is all obviously, I think, present and undeniable.
- [45:53]
B
Right.
- [45:53]
A
And then how much of this is genuine need on Lestat's part and desire. Right. And so we see. So they're we when we first see them. They're at the table, right? They're taught, they're doing heartbeat math. This was kind of interesting, actually. Like Lestat training tutelage. Like training his fledgling.
- [46:11]
B
That was interesting when no one trained him.
- [46:14]
A
Yes, exactly. And like the value of that guiding hand. And then obviously, as we'll see how quickly his mother and fledgling ceases to value that. Right? It's like, I don't need it a piece out. I'm gone. I've abandoned you in the night.
- [46:30]
B
The. Do you ever abandon me under. While I'm sleeping under a boat?
- [46:33]
A
I promise to leave you a pendant and a wig at a minimum. I think that means it has to be the other way around. You're the one who is more likely to have a pendant and a wig and I'm the one to be like, fuck. Oh, no.
- [46:47]
B
At any given moment.
- [46:48]
A
Where's Joe? I slept in. Oh, no. Where's Joe? I will never leave you under the canoe. Or otherwise. Or otherwise.
- [46:56]
B
Wow. Exactly.
- [47:02]
A
So they spot this guy at the bar. But this is after. Also, there's the kind of like you remind me of someone, you know, a local, where a local has come up and she. She torments him telepathically. And Lestat is like observing and watching this with interest because he. He can't hear it right. But it's can tell kind of what is happening. Then she sees this hot guy at the bar. It's a holy Saturday. I'm not sure if you've heard carrying a plaster Jesus, this incredible line from Daniel about that. Yeah, great stuff. So, okay, they're fucking, but like, what do you make?
- [47:35]
B
I love. So we knew that Lestat was lying when he was like, relating this experience. But the fact that he is relating it as if it's something that he did. Like what Gabriella is doing in this scene is something that he is telling Daniel. He did.
- [47:47]
A
Yes.
- [47:47]
B
I was on the Devil's Road. I saw a guy with a plaster of Jesus and we had sex. You know, like.
- [47:52]
A
So was he clutching Jesus while you sucked him off? Good question. Daniel asking the hard hitting follow ups as a Pulitzer prize winner would exactly
- [48:01]
B
what Ronan Farrow would do.
- [48:02]
A
I think. So Lestat charges him. Okay. His mother is fucking this handsome curly haired bearded man.
- [48:11]
B
Yeah.
- [48:14]
A
This is always like a kind of interesting thing when we watch something like this happen. You know, you die in the throes of passion. Good way to go. Tough way to go. It's a toss up on the one hand fucking a beautiful vampire. And it seemed like they had been at it for a while and they were at a pivotal moment. On the other hand they are interrupted at that key moment and then she does slit his throat and kill him while she comes.
- [48:37]
B
He gets to no, he does not get to complete.
- [48:39]
A
She no, I think she got to enjoy and take her pleasure. And he was like well what's going on here? We were really in the middle of something. So Lestat is like beside himself. I could hear you through the walls dancing.
- [48:52]
B
Sorry.
- [48:53]
A
It is so reminiscent of that. I was really struck cause this is where he brings up the tending to the wounds. We were mother and son and it's like oh ya. And then we kind of can hear the incursion of something that has not yet happened for them.
- [49:11]
B
Right.
- [49:11]
A
The kind of crashing of the waves from this, this lake setting. So the, the way that we are melding desire and abandonment.
- [49:17]
B
Yeah.
- [49:17]
A
Need and loss for these characters like across time including obviously in the contemporary setting where he's like as we'll hear later, she's like I was gone a week. And he's like it was nine days. Very intense all around Styles to be
- [49:30]
B
precise about the number of days he
- [49:32]
A
does and he needs his mommy.
- [49:33]
B
How many days he existed before he met Louis de Pontillac. Exactly how many days she's been gone?
- [49:38]
A
Exactly the I love you she says like I love you, I love you. And he cries, he cries, they kiss. And then I thought there was an interesting expression on her face here. Like I thought she actually looked as she starts to fuck her son or as her son starts to fuck her. I thought she looked a little surprised.
- [49:59]
B
Oh like a little Alicent of just
- [50:01]
A
sort of like not that because Alicent is like what have I done? But maybe like I don't know, I couldn't. I was trying to read this. It was like I think Gabriella knows what she's doing and is manipulating him very actively but almost like she had to confront and maybe this is part of why she leaves. There's a difference between lust and a deeper like this boy needs his mommy and I am his entire existence. And that's actually not gonna work for me. Like, I think she saw in his eyes there that what she is for
- [50:30]
B
him, she's never gonna be for him. I mean, definitely on the. You know. You think it's a. I think it's more of like a harbor where they are. Maybe it's. I don't know. There's a lighthouse. Do they have lighthouses on lakes? I don't know. A body of water.
- [50:42]
A
Body of water. Cove.
- [50:43]
B
A cove, yeah.
- [50:44]
A
Yes, Love a cove. Yeah. Those are like actual, like, ocean. Ocean vessels that are torn up. Yeah, yeah.
- [50:50]
B
Tall ships, whatever. Anyway, yeah, the COVID The beach. Yes, whatever. When he's like, like, let's get blood married and do this forever, she's like, I don't think so.
- [51:00]
A
And so she sees that same look in his eyes here. Right? Yeah.
- [51:03]
B
We got this great email from our listener who said, Blake said when Lysat told her he heard her banging the Christian through the walls, it felt like what he was really saying was the same thing Louis asked him all those years later, aren't I enough? And that's when Gabs twisted the knife, telling him she loved him. He's probably only heard those words from her once or twice before. If ever Lestat goes into action doing what he thinks he has to do to please her, to keep her. He even tried to put a blood ring on it. But you could literally see Gabs lose her incesty mommy boner on the spot. And she was gone in the morning. The only thing she left was a necklace and proof she received the cunty ass bob gift because she cut her hair off. And the cutting of her hair, I think, is interesting because this is very much a thing in the book where she, like, dresses as a man and cuts her hair short to look like a man, but her hair grows back. And she's, like, devastated how quickly her hair grows back because she's like, I can't get rid myself of this trapping of femininity. Interesting. So she just keeps cutting it. But this line we get pre. Mother and son fucking at the table. Not a wife, not a mother, not a woman. What then? I'm a fever that comes in the night and kills by the morning. But this rejection of her role as a woman, as a mother, as a wife, as a marquis, perhaps. And then her, like, oppressive absence in the modern storyline haunting this entire episode. Just sort of like he's constantly checking his phone. Where is she? Where is she? What is she doing? How long has it been? When are you going to meet me? Where are you going? To meet me? Where are you? I hope you're at a quiet year with a view that the cell phone tower you burned down is incredibly good once again. But, yeah, to your point, on this cove, we get this thesis statement of what she wants, right? Which is out in the world, feeding in the streets and evil that answers goodness. Shall we do it? Shall we scorch the mortal world? Decimate it, Brothers impaling brothers, mothers throttling their bays, all writhing on the ground till no light remains, no hope of light. And we, the devils rule together as dark monarchs intertwined for all eternity.
- [53:04]
A
Yeah, it's worrying. It's worrying.
- [53:06]
B
Is this the thesis statement for the Great Conversion?
- [53:09]
A
Yeah, I think so. And I felt like the way that, again, it was edited to, you know, he is reflecting on the violence of the moment in real time as he is, like, flashing back in Weir accent, these core memories, right? And it felt like he was sort of clocking her. And it's not like it's a secret, you know, she will come to him, the tour bus at the end of the episode and say, the Great Conversion. Just so exactly right? And, like, why don't we stoke that? Yeah. Why don't we fuel it? Why don't we be present for the converted?
- [53:39]
B
And the way that she's using him, as she always has, as she did with the Wolf Hunt, to be, like, the powerful masculine force that she cannot be. She cannot whip the votes towards the Great Conversion or whatever, but she's got this, like, hot, charismatic son who she can use and manipulate in order to do that work for her. And this is like a. This is a change from the book, this idea that, like, Gabrielle is at all interested in the Great Conversion and this more explicit shading of her relationship with him as, like, overtly manipulative. I think they just made it crystal clear on the side of this episode. And, like, when you hear Sam Reid talk about this episode or talk about Lestat's relationship with Gabrielle this entire season, Gabriella, you know that he's just sort of like he's being manipulated into it, that this sexual relationship with her is not really what he wants from her. He just wants, like. Like, mother and closeness. And this is the only thing he knows how to do to get it, you know, and that, she knows, is the thing that she can do to, you know, manipulate, Malleable. Make him malleable to her quims.
- [54:53]
A
I think this guy wants to fuck his mom.
- [54:56]
B
I think it's there in the. In the brew.
- [54:59]
A
It Feels like undeniable.
- [55:00]
B
He's only repulsed by it, but I don't think it is to seek a
- [55:05]
A
different type of closest.
- [55:06]
B
For sure. He is actually like a little repulsed by it, but he's not. Like, he's not doing it unwillingly. Yeah. But he's also just sort of like, if it were entirely up to him, he wouldn't do it. I think.
- [55:17]
A
I think his. If he had his druthers, he would just. They'd, like, be cradling each other against their bosoms. Right. And the fact that.
- [55:23]
B
Naked, but, you know.
- [55:24]
A
Yeah, certainly nude.
- [55:27]
B
Just like a real. Like a real Eamon in the brothel sort of situation.
- [55:31]
A
Exactly. There is some mother's milk. Milk nearby and a teat to suckle. The like. The fact that the first time we watch them actually have sex, she is still. It's not. It's not even just that he has interrupted her having sex with somebody else because of the jealousy. Right. I need you so fully, and I want you to need me. Like, we need to be enough for each other. That's what I want. Right. She is still. When they start having sex, she is still panting.
- [56:00]
B
Huh.
- [56:02]
A
From her sexual encounter with this other guy. Yeah. It's like mere seconds have passed. So. That is so warped and befouled, but kind of tells us everything we need to know about him. Seeking to take her back from anything that isn't him. And that look on her face there of like, okay, I see that you need me in a way. That is not what I want. The wedding ring, the. The blood ring connection. There is. Is. Yeah. They just. They want something different out of each other. And I think that both of the things that they each want, it's all wrong. What's so interesting about it, I think, is the comp with Louis. Because it's like, what is happening with Louis and Regina is wrong. I think kind of undeniably. Would you say wrong? That's a brave take. I know. Just like watching Lestat fuck his mom is wrong. The fact that Gabriella is thinking kind of at scale, right. Thinking in this, like, mass way. And for Lestat, for Louis, it is whether it's the ghost of Nikki. You know, the fact that we pan out on the tour bus at the end when Gabriella is there, weaponizing him and his need and his longing. And we pan out and we see his ghosts in an episode where Louis is chasing his ghost, it's this undeniable, like, you know, they are both kind of enveloped in the dome of, like, the one thing they need. But then what impact does that have on everybody else around them? And you know what?
- [57:20]
B
I would suggest therapy first and foremost. Secondly, why not find it in each other? Louie and Lestat's great idea. That's all I want. Okay.
- [57:31]
A
All new Sundays at 9, exclusively on AMC and AMC. Plus I am the vampire Lestat. I'm a rock star. Now I'm a little killer. From Anne Rice's immortal universe comes what Vulture calls the most momentous event in fictional rock history. Thousands of fans love you.
- [57:50]
B
I want millions.
- [57:52]
A
It's my era. Anne Rice's the Vampireless Dot. All new Sundays at 9, exclusively on
- [57:58]
B
AMC and AMC Stream now this episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable Internet means everything for your business and even this podcast. That's why I trust Spectrum Business. They keep companies of all sizes connected with Internet, advanced Wi, Fi, phone, TV, mobile services plus +24.7 US based support. Millions of business owners already trust Spectrum business. So visit spectrum.combusiness to learn more. Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas. This episode is brought to you by Paramount. In the world of espionage, truth is a moving target. And every decision carries a dangerous consequence. In the HC season 2, Martian has a new mission as a double agent. Twice the lies, twice the risk. The lines between ally and enemy blur like never before. And survival depends on trusting no one. Starring Michael Fassbender, Jeffrey Wright, Jody Turner Smith and my man, Richard Gere. Don't miss the Agency Season 2. All episodes now streaming on Paramount. Plus idea anything we we want to say about this Armand Daniel bowling scene that we've already kind of gone through this. I titled this section Devil's Minion because this is the name, as I think I've mentioned maybe in the spoiler section of the chapter in the Queen of the Damned that is about Daniel and Armand and their bond and their relationship. So the Devil's Minion is sort of the name of this like ship. And a lot of fans were very excited to see sort of, you know, this gather scene inside of this episode where as Assad Zaman who plays Armon has said, like he's telling the truth when he tells Daniel, it wasn't love for Louis, it was love for you that blinded me in Dubai. Stuff like that. That is. That's a fact. Is it also manipulative of Daniel? I think to your point, Armand can be working multiple agendas at any given time. But this is the Devil's Minion. And when the cast was asked their favorite couple of the season, they all said Daniel and Armand. Yeah. So here we are.
- [60:03]
A
I'm loving it. I think it's fascinating. It's a deep and rich psychological text.
- [60:08]
B
You know, another father and son.
- [60:10]
A
Exactly. The fact it's like, it's not blood, DNA, incest, but, like, it becomes a
- [60:17]
B
version of that for vampires as well. You know, it's just like, Louis doesn't call him dad or Daddy, but, like,
- [60:23]
A
the fact that they.
- [60:23]
B
But Daniel's like, let me lean into it. Yeah.
- [60:27]
A
I thought that in the other thing. I guess that's worth just quickly noting that it's not specific to this, like, ship and their relationship, but that does transpire in this scene is that when Daniel asks Armand why he's here, Armand kind of issues this warning. And, you know, we've been talking about, like, the very heavy presence of all of these harbingers across various different character sets and scenes. So he says, you're caught in great danger with Lestat. Him, he's just an asshole. There are nearly enough of us now. Each a body and night. Each turning one a week. More deaths than birth. The Great Conversion. It's happening. Daniel. Here we go. And he's going to lead it and get us all killed. The Great Conversion is like, that's established at this point, but he's going to lead it unwittingly.
- [61:13]
B
That's what Gabriella seems to want.
- [61:15]
A
Wittingly, at a certain point. At what point are you complicit enough if you know you're being manipulated by this person? Right. And kind of get us all killed
- [61:23]
B
or at least like lose an eye and a foot, you know what I mean? Like, at the end of the day. Couple things here. Also, Armand's accent sounds thicker, like more French in this bowling scene than it did to me. Like in the Dubai sequences where he had, like, largely smoothed out his accent. So I don't know what that's about. It's either an actor choice or character choice or I don't know what it is. And then the your blood sucks line is very curious when Daniel's talking to Armand about, like, having not gifted him anything because Armand has extremely powerful blood. Actually, like, extremely, extremely. Because Marius maker is an extremely, extremely powerful vampire. And canonically, Daniel is the only fledgling that Armand has ever made. And this is why it's, like, so special, is like Armand is actually kind of anti. Making more vampires. So the fact that he turned Daniel and we don't even know the full story of this flight from Newark and what happened there, we don't know that.
- [62:19]
A
Tough stray. Newark here.
- [62:20]
B
Yeah.
- [62:22]
A
Birth certificate front.
- [62:24]
B
But, like, you know what. What is so fascinating about Daniel that Armand sort of broke his rule to turn Daniel into his fledgling. And. And what has Daniel not yet unlocked? About how powerful it would be to actually be the fledgling of the vampire Armand.
- [62:41]
A
Right.
- [62:42]
B
Because that would actually be a huge, like. Similar to, like, Louis. Like, Lestat is a powerful vampire and, like, you know, and he's got the blood of Akasha in him, you know, and, like, what that means in terms of Louis being turned. So there are, you know, we're talking about, like, vampire royalty to a certain
- [62:55]
A
degree, I thought on the vampire royalty. And like, how powerful is Armand front. And also the Akasha teases nicely all entwined and put together in the Armand Lestat bloodshower scene because we get the. We're pairing a voiceover, as we so often are this season, with what is happening in the scene. Faded wallpaper waiting for lights to dim so it could peel off and suffocate you in the dark. This is Lestat's description of Armand. He would do more damage than the qu. Mean ever did.
- [63:28]
B
Ominous.
- [63:30]
A
Oh, boy.
- [63:31]
B
Okay, what's. What's the. What's the worst insult levied towards Armand? Is it fade? Is it the faded wallpaper? Is it fuck? I kind of like fuck loud.
- [63:40]
A
Fuck loud.
- [63:41]
B
Is it Lestat saying via verse, big Boss is a total blah, blah. His kisses put me in a coma.
- [63:47]
A
That was tough.
- [63:48]
B
Or is it Louis Dupont D? Lac in San Francisco saying, colorless, flavorless, dull, dull, dull nights, dull weeks, dull months, dull as fuck. Suffocation by the world's soft beige's pillow?
- [64:00]
A
It's still that one.
- [64:01]
B
Yeah. Lestat and Louis both choosing, like, interior dec. Like, boring interior decorations to, like, describe Armand's presence. Faded wallpaper and beige pillow is absolutely brutal. Really tough stuff.
- [64:12]
A
Oh, man. Fuck Cloud. Kill me, though. I love that. I'm gonna keep cloud as part of my, like, everyday. Everyday speech. Yeah, great stuff. This is a fascinating Armand episode.
- [64:20]
B
Who does that most describe at the ringer? Who's the fuck? Cloud?
- [64:24]
A
Yeah. I won't be commenting.
- [64:26]
B
We're not incriminating ourselves in that way. The Big Boss performance again, we mentioned the pigtails, the makeup, the blood caked on the neck. This whole thing. Him talking about him throwing the book around. Both Louis and Lestat are talking about the book in serious ways. In this episode, my old haunt, Vinny Fair. That's right, gets a call out. So does out magazine. This is what, how Lestat describes himself. Toxic, anguishly attached. Then he starts prancing show pony with a personal personality disorder called Lestat. I just think fantastic writing.
- [65:03]
A
Pretty. Pretty good summation.
- [65:05]
B
Feels like Lestat has maybe been to some therapy as opposed to Louis, you know what I mean? But Assad. Assad's performance in the face of all the, like, this pigtailed shoulder Chevy beat down that he gets is just like, incredible shit. And this is two episodes in a row that Lestat has brutally humiliated someone. It's Daniel last week and it's our mod this week. Will this go well for him? I don't think so. Well, well, well. If it isn't the consequences of my own action sort of thing.
- [65:33]
A
Yeah. And I think you pair what's interesting to think about right now with how the. Because, you know, after we finish talking about this one, three episodes left, as you said. That's not a lot. Now, three hours is a lot of room to tell a good story. But, like, we're nearing the end game of this season. I know.
- [65:47]
B
Sad.
- [65:47]
A
It is very sad.
- [65:48]
B
What if they don't get another season? I'm very sad.
- [65:50]
A
Oh, is that like, in the. I don't know. In the bruh.
- [65:53]
B
Could be.
- [65:53]
A
No, no. Well, that's not acceptable. Let's not allow that.
- [65:56]
B
Okay, great. It's not happening.
- [65:57]
A
It's not happening. There. We solved it. We did it. The show will be back. You pair these really, like, personal grievances and slights which lead people to carry a resentment that calcifies. And then, you know, these cycles. I'm not sure if you've heard, but sin begets sin. Pair that with this, whatever is happening in the wider world. And you have, like, so what? Like, it was interesting to think about the idea that Armand could do more damage than the queen.
- [66:34]
B
Yeah. Akasha, who we've been, like, prepped to be so scared of propping up.
- [66:39]
A
Yeah. And then it's like, well, okay, so is it column A because he's so personally wounded by these personal slights and attacks. Right. Is it because every episode has included somebody shouting casually or in some sort of scrawled on their conspiracy wall. Armand told the truth.
- [66:59]
B
Yeah.
- [67:00]
A
And the fact that we saw it. So I was thinking about this because you have, like, the Detroit Fang Gang, like, Armand told the truth. You've got these more kind of like, organized championings of that idea. But then the one that really now, in hindsight stands out even more, I think is like the bookshop, where just, like, instantly, that's what gets its claws into people. Right. They've read the book, they're talking about and they're like, Armand. Fuck Lestat. It's Armand.
- [67:27]
B
Do you think Armand is just like, like sending those psychic waves out into the universe? Because he is the most manipulative, like, mind gifted person maybe. So he's just sort of like, subliminally, like, out there just being like, arman told the truth intentionally. Oh, does it just come off him in waves, like, because the. He's telling the truth when he tells Daniel. And again, the actor has said this. When he tells Daniel, I don't know what's happening. When everyone goes away and it's just the two of them. Yeah, he genuinely doesn't.
- [67:54]
A
Right, right, right.
- [67:55]
B
This is like in a. Well, he's never made a vampire before, so, like, he's never experienced this before. Let's talk about Louis and Regina. And men will do anything other than go to therapy, shout out Regina saying, do I take my tampon out in front of the podcaster?
- [68:12]
A
It's just amazing.
- [68:13]
B
Really good stuff. Love that our profession has become synonymous with, like, loser people who crash in your apartment.
- [68:20]
A
And he's only been there since Tuesday.
- [68:25]
B
So this is a show invented storyline. This whole Regina thing is show invented. The book readers have no idea what to make of this.
- [68:30]
A
Okay.
- [68:31]
B
To keep Louis, he who licenses and franchises the night.
- [68:36]
A
One of my favorite lines of the
- [68:37]
B
season, Masterful, incredible, in the mix. Not to mention someone who looks like Claudia. Right? So we get these two actors who get to make, you know, play out this very juicy, complicated, horrible, toxic scenario. Something that Daniel said to Louis in Dubai when. When they're doing the interview, he says to Louis, still a pimp paying a. To sit in a room with you and talk. So, like, that's what Danny was. And this is something that we met Louie. He would pay a sex worker not to have sex with him, but just to, like, listen to him. So this is something that he needs. So, like, what is this with Regina if not that? Him throwing money at.
- [69:14]
A
At.
- [69:14]
B
At a young. A young compromised woman. And he's like, I mean, yeah, I love Louis same. And I am, like, on his side. But when he's like, hey, I've looked up your criminal record.
- [69:25]
A
I found your only fans.
- [69:26]
B
I found your only fans.
- [69:27]
A
Not good. That's not good.
- [69:29]
B
And I can make all that go away if you just do this thing with me. And she's like, pour myself a new yellow dress and send you her lap. And he's like, no. And she's like, no.
- [69:37]
A
Right?
- [69:38]
B
You know?
- [69:39]
A
Yeah. And then the, like, the. The change in the air when she. After he had. Yeah. After he has guided her to read the book. Understand what he needs exactly. Who he is, who Claudia is, who he's missing. And she impersonates Claudia. And it's like, I thought, like, so the fact that she kind of initially mistakes his intentions. Right. You know, my ass isn't on the menu. But it still costs gay, gay, gay. And then you move into this, like, well, what is the difference? Right? Yeah. Actually, what is bus fare? You know, that's a thousand bucks. That's bus fare for you. Okay. How about 100,000? Five times that. Like, the bartering.
- [70:21]
B
Good negotiation skills, Regina. I would say 500,000.
- [70:25]
A
I would say you could have charged more. She looked him up and says that he's the, like, 566 richest man in the world. It's. You start at a million.
- [70:32]
B
A million.
- [70:33]
A
You start at a million.
- [70:35]
B
Okay.
- [70:35]
A
Okay.
- [70:36]
B
Did me more.
- [70:37]
A
Exactly.
- [70:38]
B
Okay. Exactly.
- [70:40]
A
Though I suspect this won't be the last negotiation between these two.
- [70:43]
B
This is just.
- [70:44]
A
It's sad because. Yeah. I also love Louis and I feel for him deeply. And the fact that this, like, trauma and this loss and this grief has such a hold on him. Right. And that his regret has such a hold on him.
- [70:55]
B
And this is something that Jacob said is like. What's going on with Jacob. I understand. Who plays Louis the best. Something that he said is, like, killing Bruce didn't do it. It didn't exorcise the demon for him. You know what I mean? He's just sort of like. He thought he would find some relief in doing this and the pain is still there. Of, like, having led Claudia to her. Not being able to save her in the first place, put her in this position. Even though Lestat, like, you know, was warned about Nikki, warned Louis. This is a bad idea to turn Claudia into a vampire in the first place. And the fact that he could not keep her safe. Safe and alive and happy and the extreme guilt that he feels about that. And is there a way, via this up.
- [71:35]
A
Yeah.
- [71:35]
B
Situation that he's found himself in. And again, I am still curious if this. If this woman actually looks like as much like Claudia as he thinks she does.
- [71:44]
A
Right.
- [71:44]
B
Like, I will be curious if. If Lestat or if someone else, like, shows up. Claudia. If Armand is like, that's not. You know, if we see her from their point of view and it's a different actress and it's just sort of like, that's not what she looks like,
- [71:58]
A
you know, That'll be fascinating. It's interesting too, because, like, you know, Given how much of the Claudia stretch of season two in Paris at the theater was, like, playing characters, it adds an extra layer to this that is, like, I find really captivating and disturbing.
- [72:19]
B
Louis.
- [72:19]
A
So, like, when he was describing the initial glimpse, Right. And I saw this person, I thought,
- [72:26]
B
come out of the subway.
- [72:28]
A
Yeah. And then he's, like, he says, chasing ghosts. Right. Like, that makes it so much more tragic. I think that he knows and understands and has decided, like, has made an active choice and, like, to do this anyway.
- [72:44]
B
And, like, leaves multiple times in a way that, like, you could see him tell himself, I'm not coming back. That's the last time. And then he just keeps coming back. Yeah.
- [72:53]
A
And, like, what? He's putting on Regina already. Like, when he's like, it's been a couple days. You missed your shift.
- [72:58]
B
You know, I've been here since 1:30.
- [73:00]
A
I'm worried.
- [73:01]
B
Like, I've been here since 1:30 waiting for you.
- [73:04]
A
Yeah. And, like, you could certainly come to care about a stranger very quickly, but that's not what this is. He is immediately transposing his feelings for Claudia onto this other, other person. And it's just like. It's very disturbing.
- [73:18]
B
Seek help.
- [73:19]
A
Yeah. Very, very, very disturbing.
- [73:21]
B
All right. An assassination attempt and a record deal. We've already talked about this sort of, like, final backstage tantrum from Lestat. But again, incredible writing. When he's, like, describing the, like, what? Nipple hardening, Like. Yeah, prick popping. There it is. Okay. I just want to shout out that muse Nikki has a backstage pass on, which just, like, really cracked me up. He's in his, like, period costume with the bloody. He's got a backstage pass on. Made me really laugh. Whoever was on set was like, we should put a backstage pass on him. Top tier work.
- [73:54]
A
The fact that he called, he wants his mother to hear. It's been 12. I left 12 minutes ago, and they're still shouting for me.
- [74:01]
B
I'm worthy of adoration and attention and love.
- [74:03]
A
And it's like, she's always tried to wield that against him. Like, post wolf killing, she's like, they're here to worship you. She's always. And so, again, like, there's a level, I think, of awareness that the characters possess of what other. What they are doing, what their vulnerabilities are. Right. And what the kind of, like, pitfalls are. And then the other characters unlock something about that. They're, like, kind of helpless to prevent the chokehold again. And, like, the fact that in such. Cause this is all really in the final 10 minutes of the episode, he calls her. He's like, look, they worship me. They love. They recognize my value. You don't. And then she comes in and is like, don't you want to be worshiped? Look at what you've done to help. These voices, you hear them.
- [74:45]
B
But also between. Sandwiched between that is a shooting. Is someone shooting him? The guy we met in episode one, like, shows up to shoot Lestat to expose the truth of him. And we get this mention at the beginning of the episode, sort of like a manifesto on a computer in the library. So I assume that it's this guy's manifesto that he's talking about. But, yeah, the Vampire Messiah, which is how Daniel refers to him at the beginning of this episode when he comes sort of like, what does the Vampire Power Messiah. O. You know, his audience or whatever. But he gets the stigmata, right? He gets the, like, shot through the. Right through the hand sort of moment.
- [75:22]
A
Yes.
- [75:22]
B
I was thinking about Jack o' Connell and Bone Temple.
- [75:25]
A
Anyway, aren't we always. Always.
- [75:27]
B
I'm still at the Bone Temple.
- [75:29]
A
Lea can rock a tracksuit, there's no question.
- [75:31]
B
Oh, yeah, and he's already got the blonde hair. Exactly. Anyway, I just think that, you know, this is part of the whole fandom worship frenzy thing, is, like, this. You know, this is what happened to John Lennon. Like, this is what happens sometimes when you put yourself in this position of worship and in this damaged society we live in. What some people do with that is extremely fucked up. But they've got a record deal that's laced throughout this episode. I thought the party scene
- [76:08]
A
with the
- [76:08]
B
aforementioned yurt line and stuff like that was shot very, like, this is Spinal Tap sort of set up. But, yeah, this, like, very dorky, like, you know, music exec guy is here, and it's just sort of like, I get it. I get what you're doing, like, sort of thing. Anyway, he's. This is. Presumably what we're seeing at the end of the episode is them starting to record the album.
- [76:29]
A
Yeah, I thought it was. It was an interesting. So the shooting, the manifesto. When we get the reading of the manifesto on the news after the shooting, it was an interesting way to, like, root us in. Just a truth of the story, which is that our heroes are bad. Like the.
- [76:54]
B
From a certain point of view.
- [76:56]
A
Yeah. It was a real, like, okay. Because this is a mass shooter. This person has done this horrific, awful thing and is undeniably, in every respect, reprehensible and deplorable. And, of course, like, how can you not think of real life tragedies. And this is awful, right? It's horrible. There's not a single person watching, hopefully, who is like, that guy has it figured out. It's like, this is a broken person who has done something terrible, period. Right. The thing he says about vampires were their food. Yeah. Is. Is they feed, siphoning away our vitality in order to extend their own natural existence. But if we are their fuel, are we not also their strength? That is incredibly worrying then, because they're like, you have on the. You pair the idea of the great Conversion and the masses and all these people who are like, that seems good. That seems fun. Turn me into a vampire. And then the people who are going to hear that and say, wait a minute. Yeah, the people you guys love to watch every week on your television show or the people you love to listen to in your band. Whatever's happening here, we can't just let the vampires turn and eat us, right? So then, like, what army rises up to challenge the vampires?
- [77:59]
B
Right? But, like, if. If your front man is Lestat versus this guy, like, well, and this is
- [78:04]
A
what Gabriella wants, right? It's just hell and violence unleashed all around.
- [78:08]
B
I. I think also something that Team Armand and whoever else is against the Great Conversion is thinking about and should be thinking about is something we talked about when we talked about, about Pluribus and the way in which, like, in the show Pluribus spoil for the show. Spoiler. Seriously. Skip ahead. They're, like, eating people, right? And so they were talking. We got a lot of emails from people who are like, I don't know, epidemiologists or whatever your profession needs to be to understand this, who are like, this is an unsustainable, like, food chain. Yeah. And so, like, with the, with the Great Conversion, like, that's an unsustainable, like, if you turn too many vampires, what are you gonna eat? And you can't sustain it and the earth can't support it even if you have, like, these blood farms, it's like, not. It can't pan out that way. Something to think about in your plan, Gabriella. Okay, book spoilers.
- [79:00]
A
Yeah. Do you last. Gabriella, a question before the book spoilers is just, do you think at this point in the story there's anything about her that feels redeemable because it feels pure, like purely evil?
- [79:09]
B
It does. And this is a choice that they've made to take this, I would say, exist in the gray character in the books and make her more of a villain, which is an interesting Choice to make when there are so few female characters in this show and Claudia's dead. You know, Regina, we have some questions about what's going on there. Akasha is, of course, this big villain who's, like, looming over and stuff like that.
- [79:37]
A
The idol. Christine, though.
- [79:38]
B
Yeah, yeah. Christina and Tough Cookie. Holding it down.
- [79:40]
A
Holding it down, holding it down.
- [79:43]
B
Something to aspire to. It was just sort of, like, interesting to take this, like, one female main character. Female. Especially since Claudia's dead and turn her into a more overt villain, I think is an interesting choice to make. Yeah.
- [79:57]
A
And whether the villainy is, like, directed in a very personal way. Like getting to witness the kind of first abandonment. Yeah. So painful. And you see the effect that that has on Lestat still. And then this just declaration of evil intent. Like, this is what I would like to bring into the world. These are the horrors. I would like to accept you to help me. Doesn't it sound great? But even then, I don't think I want to spend the next 50 to 100 years, let alone beyond doing it with just you. No, it's concerning. Is Lestat going to be able to stop her? Is his need for her approval and love too great? You know, what level of, like,
- [80:42]
B
what
- [80:42]
A
ability does he have to check himself and to check her? Once the clarity sets in that this is what. What driving forces?
- [80:50]
B
Why is she.
- [80:51]
A
Yeah. Behind what is happening around them and all of the effects that it has.
- [80:55]
B
I don't have any answers for you.
- [80:56]
A
Well, it's worrying, but again, they've been telling us since the very beginning of this season that worrying things were afoot. So it feels like the promise is going to be fulfilled. All right.
- [81:04]
B
Book spoilers.
- [81:05]
A
Yes. It's so jaunty. And then it gets so evil.
- [81:15]
B
I just really like saying the Great Conversion again.
- [81:19]
A
I think you've nailed the accent, which I would just pause it.
- [81:23]
B
Chocula.
- [81:24]
A
You shouldn't be able to.
- [81:26]
B
Chocula.
- [81:27]
A
Yeah.
- [81:27]
B
All right.
- [81:29]
A
It's given Dracula.
- [81:31]
B
All right. The Devil's Road. Connections to Akasha, who says upon waking at the end of the book, the vampire Lestat. And it's a quote that someone says earlier in the book. And she says it again later. From my stone pillow. I have dreamed dreams of the mortal world above. I've heard its voices, its new music as lullabies As I lie in my grave, I've envisioned its fantastical discoveries. I've known its courage in the timeless sanctum of my thoughts. And though it shuts me out with its dazzling form arms I long for One with the strength to roam it fearlessly, to ride the devil's road through its heart.
- [82:02]
A
Okay.
- [82:02]
B
And she thinks that's Lestat. Okay. Interesting. Also, maybe I should have said this earlier, but, like, you know, when. When. When Lestat's like, nikki, my first love is not a great love.
- [82:14]
A
And.
- [82:14]
B
And Daniel's like, really? You buried yourself underground for a hundred years after he died? I actually think he buried himself underground for 100 years after his mommy left him. That's actually why he buried himself underground for 100 years. And again, this is. I think. I believe this is a show addition because they did, like, the time difference, you know, so they needed to put, like, Lestat, sort of, like putting Ahsoka in the world between worlds. You know what I mean? Just sort of, like, put him on ice for a little while.
- [82:38]
A
Yeah.
- [82:38]
B
In this version of the story, it's because Gabrielle left, I think. I don't know. We'll see what happens next week. The name Regina means Queen. A few people pointed this out.
- [82:50]
A
Yeah.
- [82:50]
B
Does this character have anything to do with Akasha? Our listener Dan said, I've been loving the vampire Lestat. Just a fantastic show. After this latest episode number four, I had a thought. Is there any way that Regina New Claudia will end up being or being connected to Akasha? I know it sounds crazy, but Akasha is definitely coming, and some sort of connection seems like a better reveal than introducing a whole new character. Plus, her name does mean Queen. As always, a theory held loosely. Shout out Dan for holding his theory loosely. But, like, is this Akasha in a different form? Is she being controlled by Akasha? Is it similar to sort of like Armand having Alex as a way to get to Lestat? Is this a way for Akasha to get. I don't. I don't know the answer, but Regina is a very interesting name choice for this show. Invented character.
- [83:34]
A
Yeah.
- [83:34]
B
Does not feel like it could be coincidental. I don't know. I don't know the answer.
- [83:39]
A
Interesting. Okay. Huh.
- [83:42]
B
Last but not least for Mary Beth on the Daniel death front. And so Eric Boghossian was on the official podcast this week talking about the host, Lizzie asked him about the death omen.
- [83:55]
A
Yeah.
- [83:56]
B
And he said, this is something that Roland has promised me. A good death that I get. Like, a really cool death.
- [84:04]
A
Okay. And I don't.
- [84:05]
B
I couldn't tell by the way that he and Roland were talking about it if that means they're doing. And again, this is. This would be a book to departure. But, like, again, if it's something they're doing this season, but like, that. Like, this is something he promised me. Sounded very like future, maybe. Yeah. And he was. And Roland was like, we have to figure out how to execute it. So I feel like it isn't this season, but, like, it feels very. Harrison Ford is Han Solo. I'll come back as Han Solo, but you got to kill me. Like Bosian's. Like, I'll do a couple more seasons of your vampire show, but then you got to kill me, like, you know, sure. And give me a good death.
- [84:35]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [84:36]
B
Possibly. But on that front, Mary Beth wrote in to say this exchange from Daniel and Raglin in season two. Daniel says, can you protect me? Raglin says, from being killed? No. We're particularly poor at keeping our assets alive. Daniel says, I'm not an asset. Raglin says, you messaged me. I showed up. The mackerel was better last time. Daniel says, I want to get out alive. Raglin says, you want a book. Daniel says, I want both. Raglan says, you fear Arman, you should fear the other one, meaning Louie, which is very interesting. I don't know what that means. And then after a scene with Louis and Armand, we come back to Raglan and Daniel talking about the book. And Raglan says, I think you've been masterful. I think if I could swap bodies with you, I'd be running the Order by now. And a lot of people just thought that was, like, a fun little throwaway, like the body. The body thief sort of. Raglan hint. But is it more directed at an actual, like, Daniel will be involved with the body thief sort of plot line? I don't know if it's just, like, a fun little Easter egg for fans. Raglan just being like, if I could swap bodies with you, like, blah, blah, or if it's actually, Daniel will definitely be involved in that body swap plot. I don't know. Interesting, but fun to think about.
- [85:48]
A
Interesting. We've yet to have an episode where we're not reminded that check stat exists. So what do you think? If.
- [85:57]
B
If Lestat was so publicly shot multiple times, like.
- [86:04]
A
Yeah.
- [86:05]
B
Are they. What are they gonna do with that?
- [86:08]
A
Prosthetic wounds, maybe? Or uncheck stat, because that was part of. It was like, he's. He's gonna be fine because he's a vampire. Like a way to prove it. Yeah.
- [86:19]
B
So if he shows up and he's fine.
- [86:22]
A
Huh. I don't know. Yeah.
- [86:24]
B
Any other questions, comments, or concerns?
- [86:28]
A
This Regina Akasha thing is interesting.
- [86:30]
B
I know.
- [86:30]
A
I don't. I.
- [86:31]
B
Again, I'm in Theory. I'm in full theory territory because this is not a book thing.
- [86:36]
A
I guess my main question, honestly, like,
- [86:38]
B
what if someone else shows up and it looks like the actress they've cast to play Akasha?
- [86:41]
A
Akasha. Well, yeah, it's interesting. All of those possibilities are interesting.
- [86:47]
B
Yeah.
- [86:48]
A
Is it Akasha? Is it like a pawn that Akasha is using? And then what would that mean? Because, like, trying to destabilize and control Louis. To what end?
- [87:01]
B
Like the.
- [87:03]
A
And that is a particular. To follow it with this, this Mary Beth reminder. The you should fear the other one. Like, who is more valuable to gain access to through the other. You know, and like, I guess just also when. Now that Louis has gone off to the brick and bacon, like, when is she gonna get back?
- [87:27]
B
Yeah, into the main plot.
- [87:29]
A
Yeah, into the main plot. How long?
- [87:31]
B
I hope soon, because it feels like
- [87:33]
A
we only have three episodes left. I think to your point of like, what are other characters gonna see? Even if Regina looks exactly like Claudia to everyone else, there still needs to be a moment, a reckoning, I think quite soon where somebody, probably Lestat, I would guess, says to Louis, this is not okay.
- [87:49]
B
Yeah, maybe they have notes for each other. Louis's like, stop fucking your mom. And he's like, stop stalking this girl who looks like our dead daughter.
- [87:57]
A
I mean, it would be helpful feedback all around, I think also group therapy, couples therapy would be great for that.
- [88:03]
B
Couples therapy. I would love it. All right, that has been episode four. I'm really excited for episode five. I do believe we're getting Mario in the next episode. So that is very exciting. Love to meet a legendary vampire. Thank you to Jacob Cornett, Carlos Chiraboga, Scott Lee, Arjuna Rinko Powell and Jomi Adeneron. We will be back with our House of The Dragon Episode 2, Deep Dive. Very excited for that. Can't wait. Thank you to you, Mallory Rubin.
- [88:28]
A
Thank you to you, my queen, my maker. You're my maker and I'm your fledgling, you know.
- [88:34]
B
Now you're my queen and I love you. We'll see you soon.
- [88:37]
A
Bye.
- [88:50]
B
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