‘The Vampire Lestat’ Episodes 5 and 6 Deep Dive

Summary

House of R: ‘The Vampire Lestat’ Episode 6 Deep Dive

Podcast: House of R (The Ringer)
Hosts: Joanna Robinson and Mallory Rubin
Episode: ‘The Vampire Lestat’ Episode 6 Deep Dive
Date: July 12, 2026

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Overview

In this episode of House of R, Joanna Robinson and Mallory Rubin deliver a high-energy, passionate deep dive into Episodes 5 ("New York") and 6 ("Montreal") of AMC’s "The Vampire Lestat." The duo blend sharp analysis, literary context, and their signature humor as they break down character arcs, thematic developments, and the creative choices fueling one of the buzziest fantasy series on TV. Special attention is paid to showstopping moments for Akasha and Claudia, the musical centerpiece of the season, and the raw, complex dynamic between Lestat and Louis. Woven throughout are insights for both book readers and newcomers, as well as speculation about the future of the franchise.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Production and Franchise Updates

• [06:27] Joanna and Mallory highlight the directors and writers for Episodes 5 and 6:
  • Ep 5 ("New York"): Directed by Levin Akin; co-written by show composer Daniel Hart and exec producer Hannah Moscovitch.
  • Ep 6 ("Montreal"): Directed by Jane Wu (notable for her visual storytelling in Marvel, Blue Eye Samurai, Spider-Verse, and more); co-written by Ryan Kattner and Kevin Hannah.
• [08:09] AMC exec Dan McDermott reports the show “is massively outperforming their projected streaming numbers.” Plans are firm for at least two more seasons (“Queen of the Damned” and “Tale of the Body Thief”).

  “There’s no question there’s gonna be more of this show…they seem like the show has really set up for Queen of the Damned and Tale of the Body Thief.” —Joanna (09:01)

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2. Episode Reactions & Character Moments

General Impressions

• [10:29–13:24] Both hosts express enthusiasm for the episodes, especially Episode 6, which Mallory calls her “favorite of the season so far.”

  “Hard not to love an episode that really roots us back inside of the Lestat-Louis relationship again…the comedy of it, but the heart of it.” —Mallory (11:48)

Showstopping Performances

• Akasha’s debut is universally praised—Joanna notes the massive expectations attached to the role, especially compared to Aaliyah’s turn in the film.

  “[My friend] turned to me...she was like, ‘Aaliyah who?’...this is just absolutely astounding stuff.” —Joanna (15:11)

• The Claudia seance: both agree it’s a tour-de-force for the character and actor, drawing from different material ("Merrick" novel) but expanded for TV.

  “Hard to watch. Painful and just, an incredible, once again, showcase for that actress.” —Joanna (16:04)

Gabriella’s Character Development

• [15:45–16:42] Both hosts note that the Halloween-night episode finally makes Gabriella compelling as Lestat’s mother and an antagonist.

  “That’s the most I’ve enjoyed that character in that performance, no question.” —Joanna (16:29)

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3. Themes: Motivation, Identity & Perspective

Overt vs. Covert Storytelling

• [17:16] The show is intentionally “flashy, overt and in your face,” but these episodes balance that with subtle character studies, especially through the musical performances and intimate gazes.
• A key dramatic success: watching characters try to “look into someone’s eyes and understand the truth of what they are not sharing either with the other person or even themselves.” —Mallory (17:21)

Point of View and Unreliable Narrators

• [19:47] There are hints about withheld information, teasing “there’s more to [Marius, Armand’s subway moment, etc.] that you’re not seeing.”
• “It can be frustrating if you feel on the outside of a story that you’re watching,” notes Joanna—a meta-comment on adaptation choices.

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4. The Power of Music

On-Screen Musical Moments

• “Stained Glass Eyes” and the serenade to Louis are called out as not just musical numbers but crucial expressive vehicles.

  “Louis’ face while watching Lestat sing to him is just like ecstasy to me in terms of, like, musical performance as a heightened emotional delivery and singing the things you can’t say.” —Joanna (20:02)

• Mallory describes "Stained Glass Eyes" as “music as self-care, as therapy...Lestat working through what that encounter with Regina/Fraudia called up inside of him,” while the serenade to Louis is “about trying to convey something to someone you’ve experienced a seismic rupture with.” (21:08–22:20)

Music Critics and Meta-Jokes

• [20:46] “Billboard does not agree with you,” Joanna quips about the fictional world’s reception to Lestat’s music, riffing on show-internal and real-world critics.

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5. Comparisons & Storytelling Tropes

• [24:25–26:43] Joanna draws parallels to Richard Linklater’s “Before Sunset” as a walk-and-talk, reconnection plot, while invoking the "comedy of remarriage" trope (e.g., Much Ado About Nothing, Philadelphia Story).
• “Despite all that hurt and distance, there’s still something here, and it’s worth pursuing.” —Joanna (25:52)
• This energy resonates for both the Lestat-Louis and Lestat-Gabriella dynamics.

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6. Cliffhanger & Vampire Mechanics

The Beheading, Vampire Physics

• [29:12–31:55] Breakdown of the climactic cliffhanger: Lestat and Louis are decapitated on a park bench by Daniel and Armand.
• Technical lore: Class B vampires can survive 2 hours after decapitation; Lestat’s lineage buys him 8–10 hours. Both Armand and Daniel know this, so the act is more warning than murder.

Speculation

• [32:39–35:31] Various theories for the finale:
  • Gabriella or Alex may recover the heads.
  • The beheading is staged to sabotage the concert; references to tour logistics and “Elizabeth Fierman” for event timing humor.
  • The heads may be reattached early in the finale; the trauma will add another emotional scar.

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7. Akasha, Lore, and Book Connections

Debut and Characterization

• [42:28–45:30] Akasha’s arrival is described as mesmerizing; the performance, speech, and visual design are analyzed in depth.

  “She looks beautiful and terrifying… I was ensorceled, but also just petrified.” —Joanna (47:40)

• Marius’s jealousy and Akasha’s search for someone powerful “to match her” come through.

Lore Explainers

• [52:15–55:55] Notable insights into:
  • Amel: The demon and seed of all vampires, name-dropped as critical for book readers.
  • Vampire Core: All vampires are connected to Akasha as a living source.
  • The “Thread” Metaphor: Repeated musically and in lore, likened to vampiric umbilical cord.

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8. Haunting, Closure, and Unreliable Narration

The Seance

• [81:13–84:41] The Claudia séance: Book vs. show differences, both haunting and emotionally devastating. Claudia’s rage, suffering, and slipperiness of “truth” are central.

  “You feel, like, so much, like, empathy for her and pity for her, and then you’re also terrified of her at the same time.” —Joanna (83:54)

• The scene implicates the audience, Louis, and Lestat in Claudia’s tragedy, questioning whose narrative is valid.

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9. Humor, Running Gags, and Notable Quotes

Quotes & Banter

• “You did fuck your mom. Fascinating.” —Joanna (12:08)
• "Are you hitting the same vagina you spent the first nine months of your mortal life in?" —Mallory (78:46)
• "It’s exhausting to pretend otherwise.” —Lestat re: Louis’ superiority (95:21)
• “I come and support you… you came, you called” —Lestat (80:10)
• “You have to apologize. We can be anti-incest on this podcast.” —Joanna (79:37)
• "Canonically five-nine, five-nine le— that is nuts." —Mallory on Lestat’s passport (92:15)
• Daniel’s “Travis and Taylor joke” timed perfectly to the wedding [76:14]
• Halloween costuming, “spirit Halloween grim reaper,” murder hoodies, and the bowl-of-candy running jokes.

Visual Gags

• Multiple references to passport photos, luxury coffins, Halloween costumes, and Montreal restaurants as “very approximate.”
• Gabriella as “Yoko Mirin” and the “vampire tough cookie” bits.

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10. Book Spoilers Section (Marked & Optional)

• [95:48–99:28] After the non-spoiler analysis, the hosts discuss deep book lore and adaptation differences:
  • Amel’s possession of Lestat (“I am Amel”) foreshadowed in voiceover.
  • The chopped head scene as a stand-in for Louis’s post-Claudia despair and suicide (in “Merrick”).
  • The franchise’s ambition to keep all four key characters (Lestat, Louis, Armand, Daniel) central in future seasons.

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Notable Timestamps

• 10:29: “Did you like these episodes of television?” — Start of substantive breakdown and emotional first impressions.
• 15:11: Reactions to Akasha’s introduction and expectations set by previous adaptations
• 20:02 / 20:26: In-depth on musical performances as storytelling vehicles
• 29:12: Analysis of the beheading cliffhanger
• 42:28: Akasha’s arrival and performance analysis
• 62:07: Claudia, Lestat, and Louis—the heart of the performative ballad sequence
• 81:13–88:15: The séance, book/show comparisons, and the nature of Claudia’s posthumous voice
• 95:48: Start of the book spoilers/discussion for lore hounds

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Memorable Moments

• Akasha’s entrance: “I was ensorceled but also petrified.” (Joanna, 47:40)
• Seance sequence: “Chef's kiss. Lestat Fraudia was amazing.” —Mallory (12:46)
• Lestat/Louis musical dyad: “Louis face while watching Lestat sing to him is just like ecstasy to me.” —Joanna (20:02)
• Daniel-Armand banter: “You have to apologize. We can be anti incest on this podcast.” —Joanna (79:37)
• Running joke: “Canonically five-nine, five-nine le— that is nuts.” —Mallory (92:15)

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Concluding Thoughts

Both hosts agree these two episodes are season highlights for "The Vampire Lestat," skillfully bridging big supernatural spectacle (Akasha, vampire lore, beheading cliffhanger) and intimate character work (searing dialogue, unresolved wounds, and music as emotional directness). With the season finale imminent and future seasons confirmed, the podcast leaves listeners with new lore to ponder, bold speculation, and a heap of quotable moments.

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Next up:
Look out for their “Vampire Lestat” finale deep dive, along with House of the Dragon content and more revisitations of genre classics.

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Contact & Community

• Email: [e-mail]
• Social: @HouseofRPod
• Watch: YouTube / Spotify
• Final advice: “It’s an exciting time, so follow the pod!”

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Summary by House of R Podcast Summarizer — for listeners who want the inside story, top insights, and every wow moment without the ads or filler.

Transcript

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[Joanna Robinson]

No, you're not dreaming. It's house of our vampireless dad. A little early in your feeds. I'm Joanna Robinson. Joining me today, the beautiful, the luminescent, the Queen of the damned herself, Mallory Rubin.

[Mallory Rubin]

Straighten your tie. Inflate your lips, be it facial or labial. We're back.

[Joanna Robinson]

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[Mallory Rubin]

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[Joanna Robinson]

You were deciding between two. What was the other one?

[Mallory Rubin]

Really torn between that and bought a retirement villa, wallpapered her basement sex dungeon with billable hour invoices, which, like goals.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, like Christine could not be more Mallory goals quoted. We're gonna talk about episode five, New York, which is where those lines came from. And also episode six, Montreal.

[Mallory Rubin]

That's right.

[Joanna Robinson]

In which a lot of stuff happened. And we'll get to all of that. Don't lose your head right after this.

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[Mallory Rubin]

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[Mallory Rubin]

All new Sundays at 9, exclusively on AMC and AMC. I am the vampire Lestat.

[Joanna Robinson]

I'm a rock star now. I'm a little killer. I'm a lonely moon.

[Mallory Rubin]

From Anne Rice's immortal universe comes what Vulture calls the most momentous event in fictional rock history. Thousands of fans love you.

[Joanna Robinson]

I want millions.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's my era.

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[Mallory Rubin]

All new Sundays at 9, exclusively on AMC and AMC C plus stream now.

[Joanna Robinson]

Quick programming reminders. The vampire list out every week. Ish. We had miss last week, but we're doing a double dose this week and then we'll be here at some point for the finale. We don't have. We don't have screeners for the finale yet, so we don't know if we're

[Mallory Rubin]

getting them Monday, the 20th at the absolute latest.

[Joanna Robinson]

At the latest, probably.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Would be my guess. House of the Dragon.

[Mallory Rubin]

That's right. I'm out of it.

[Joanna Robinson]

A really fun special talk. The Thrones is coming for y' all this week also. The deep Dive.

[Mallory Rubin]

That's right.

[Joanna Robinson]

I'm excited.

[Mallory Rubin]

Same. It's been so fun to cover the season.

[Joanna Robinson]

Thrilling. And then what are you calling the other ones that we're doing this week?

[Mallory Rubin]

Adianape. We have our last Christopher Nolan Revisited podcast on Oppenheimer. Our hope and dream is for Sean Fennesee to join us for that. He's currently out of the country, so

[Joanna Robinson]

currently in Canada, but if he makes it back. That's the plan.

[Mallory Rubin]

We have a lot of, like, if the schedule cooperates, stuff in the mix right now, but that's the goal. And then, of course, would you say

[Joanna Robinson]

Sean Fantasy is the atomic bomb of the ringer?

[Mallory Rubin]

Has Sean Fantasy ever sat nude in a hotel armchair, legs crossed?

[Joanna Robinson]

I didn't ask if she.

[Mallory Rubin]

Exactly the right angle.

[Joanna Robinson]

The Robert J. Oppenheimer. I said the ball.

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, you know, it's. These are. These are both good and reasonable questions

[Joanna Robinson]

why we've been watching all of these Nolan movies.

[Mallory Rubin]

The Odyssey arrives next week. It's finally time to cover the Odyssey. And we have seen it and it is amazing. It is incredibly good. We can't wait to pot about it. We're going to try to see it again before we do a deep dive on that. And that's going to be the end of next week. We have a lot of podcasts coming in the feed next week. We're like a week and a half, two weeks. I don't know. How far away is Comic Con? Not far. So stay tuned for more information about Comic Con. We'll be there. The Midnight Boys. Pew Pew. Will be there. We've got a lot of good stuff coming up.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's an exciting time, so follow the pod. Why not watch us on YouTube or Spotify, wherever you get your videos? Not wherever, but some places. And we're on social at House of our Pod. And you can email us hobbitsanddragons gmail dot com.

[Mallory Rubin]

Do it. The inbox is always open.

[Joanna Robinson]

It is spoiler warning.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Informed by our knowledge of the vampire. Leystat, Queen of the Damned. And there's a passage from the book Merrick is gonna be read in this episode, but it's not spoiling anything because it's released as something that happens in episode six, the Vampire Lestat.

[Mallory Rubin]

Like all of the other books I have read. Not a page nor a word of maric. So it's all new to me and I'm excited to learn from you, my maker in all vampire things.

[Joanna Robinson]

My beautiful fledgling.

[Mallory Rubin]

The only thing is I don't.

[Joanna Robinson]

Don't you think you're my maker?

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, it's it's all a circle. Okay. You know. Yeah, we're a little like snake eating its tail here on this podcast. I think the only downside of a maker fledgling relationship in either direction, the

[Joanna Robinson]

only one, the only.

[Mallory Rubin]

Literally the only one I can think of. I wouldn't want to not be able to communicate telepathically with you. You know, though, I think we could still do a lot of, like, meaningful eye contact and we know what the other person's thinking.

[Joanna Robinson]

I have a question. This is like, before opening snapshot. I'm just gonna get right into it at the beginning of this episode, Episode six, rather.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Lestat, like, sends a telepathic message to Alex and then later he says something to Gabrielle about, like, his. So do you think Gabrielle made Alex?

[Mallory Rubin]

I do.

[Joanna Robinson]

And that's why Lestat and Alex. But, like, then I'm surprised he couldn't, like, read Alex's intentions is that since they're like Armand, you know, or the

[Mallory Rubin]

love fog, the fog of love that Daniel keeps talking about back on that bench with Louis, talking about the future.

[Joanna Robinson]

Talking about what. What blooms at night.

[Mallory Rubin]

Just a wonderful sequence in this episode. I was also very much in a heated rivalry, like the cottage headspace. When he talked about having. He said cabin. I think that cottage.

[Joanna Robinson]

But still, why was I envisioning, like, a mobile home? Why was I envisioning that Lestat and Louis would live in a mobile home?

[Mallory Rubin]

What Louis was describing had a real, like, what's it called? An Airstream.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, I was thinking of them in an Airstream, first of all.

[Mallory Rubin]

Should we get one? Yeah, I think that sounds great.

[Joanna Robinson]

Should we drive an Airstream to Comic Con?

[Mallory Rubin]

Why not?

[Joanna Robinson]

Honestly, it would be quite good.

[Mallory Rubin]

That would be wonderful. We could take turns. It's like a three hour drive, but we both, I think, are exhausted and can use a nap. So we could alternate, you know, stretches on the five little power nap. That sounds great. Wonderful.

[Joanna Robinson]

All right, quick facts. Episodes five and six, New York and Montreal. New York, directed by Levin Akin. Akin, Montreal, directed by Jane Wu. Really fascinating choice for a director of this episode. If you look at Jane Woo's cv, Marvel storyboard artist, supervising director of Blue Eye Samurai, worked on into the Spider Verse, House of the Dragon. Like, she's just like, kind of touched everything that we care about. It's incredible.

[Mallory Rubin]

I love it.

[Joanna Robinson]

She's very, like, having gone from like, storyboard artist to director, she's done a lot of, like, action based stuff and visual stuff. So it's really interesting that this episode, Montreal, which is such Like a walk and talk episode. It's not a big action episode. She's just a fascinating choice. I'm really interested as to why she was the choice here. Episode five, New York, was co written by Daniel Hart, composer of the show, and Hannah Moskovich, who's one of the exec producers on the show. And then Montreal co written by Ryan Kattner, who's in the band the Vampire Lestat is the vampire salamander, now an

[Mallory Rubin]

icon and Kevin Hannah.

[Joanna Robinson]

So I don't know exactly how that all broke out that Daniel Hart and and Ryan Katner got writing credits on these episodes, but that's very cool. So. And I loved these episodes. Spoilers. So quickly before we get into, I mean, I think we've already said that we like these episodes, but before we get into that, I just really quickly want to mention great news from AMC's Dan McDermott, who's one of the chiefs at AMC on the future of the franchise, in an interview with Leslie Goldberg at the an Leslie just took sort of like a big picture look with Dan at the state of AMC and sort of why, you know, they're getting into like more horror content, franchising all the, you know, they have a long history with horror with the Walking Dead, but they're just like really leaning in, in that direction. How are witches and vampires and all these things the future. And zombies, of course, always the future of amc. He said in that interview that the vampire Lestat is massively outperforming their projected streaming numbers. Love it. That's wonderful. And then he spoke about wanting to planning to do at least two more seasons based on Queen of the Damned and Tale the Body Thief. And so it sounds like any question of, like, is there going to be more of this show? I think there's no question there's gonna be more of this show. How many more seasons? I don't know. But they seem like the show, as we've already talked about both in the spoiler section and out, has really set up for Queen of the Damned and Tale of the Body Thief. So like both of those books are definitely, definitely the writers on the show are like, we're hoping and planning that we get to tell those stories. But it sounds like the studio is also like, yeah, let's tell the stories.

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, here's a question. Yeah, I mean this is great news, obviously, will your outfit change when we're covering those future seasons? Because this is, I think probably appropriate for all seasons of this wonderful show. But this is very much a way to honor Lestat the rock star.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh. So will you have a Queen of the Damned fit?

[Mallory Rubin]

A Queen of the Damned fit? Will you have a bo. I don't. I don't know.

[Joanna Robinson]

No idea what a body body thief fit would be.

[Mallory Rubin]

Are you prepared to commit right now that you will. You will come in costume for future seasons?

[Joanna Robinson]

You all did let me expense this coat. I have been reimbursed for this coat. So if you're gonna let me expense future, like three of the damn fits, let me know. Sure, why not? Also, fun fact for I don't know why you'd be listening to this podcast necessarily if you haven't aren't able to watch Listat, but it is hitting Netflix July 20th for certain international markets, but not for the US yet. So, like. But I think sooner than. Sooner to Netflix than you would think is what I. Is what I think is going to happen.

[Mallory Rubin]

Let's make sure we text, hit up the group chat, tell cr. Because wasn't he sort of like once on Netflix?

[Joanna Robinson]

I'll. I'll get into it.

[Mallory Rubin]

You better fucking follow through.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's great. Once the soccer is done, it's vampire time. All right, Mallory.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Hey, Mallory Rubin.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Did you like these episodes of television?

[Mallory Rubin]

I did. I'm just having such a great time with the season, and I'm sad that it's ending. I'm really. I mean, I'm at least one more. I know two today, so I don't want to think about the end of seven while we still have five and six to discuss. But one more new hour awaiting us is pretty sad. I'll be sad when it's over, though. Looking forward to revisiting it. Not only this season, but the whole. The whole series. Yeah, that'll be really fun. I texted you my. I have had captions. For some reason, I had the ability to activate the closed captioning and you didn't on the screeners previously. They have vanished for me. And so my first watch through five, I was like,

[Joanna Robinson]

it's disorienting without the captions, and it takes forever because you're like, did they just say what I think they just said?

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. Second watch through, I had a wonderful time. And obviously, you know, for me, with no exposure to the book canon and the book lore in this case, and just like the kernel of the mentions of Akasha, the mentions of the queen, what I've learned on the pod so far, that felt like a really big, monumental thing to have the full Akasha experience, or the first full Akasha experience inside of episode five. I thought episode six was extraordinarily good. That was my favorite of the season so far. Episode three had been the high mark to that point, but I thought six was just incredible. Hard not to love an episode that really roots us back. Back inside of the Lestat Louis relationship again. Yeah, the comedy of it, but the heart of it. The way that they are saying such awful things to each other. Well, more so in one direction, which then becomes fodder for, like, you're being very judgy. And also, like, when you called and I needed you, I showed up. And where's that in turn?

[Joanna Robinson]

It's a great point from Lestat, but

[Mallory Rubin]

you did fuck your mom. Fascinating.

[Joanna Robinson]

And also, you got some blood vom on my. On my kicks.

[Mallory Rubin]

So I'm glad you mentioned that because I did want to note, while I love Louis and have a lot of room in my heart for watching these two vampires, who we adore, struggle and make mistakes, we're just a couple hours removed from watching Louis. Not months in the canon of the show, but hours for us watching Louis pull out Bruce's spine with his bare hands. But when he gets a little blood vomit on his shoes, he's like, on the. Like, they were nice shoes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Platform chucks. Is that. They were.

[Mallory Rubin]

I thought they looked good. They were a designer version of them.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Very good shoes.

[Joanna Robinson]

They look fantastic.

[Mallory Rubin]

The Claudia or. And let's just. Chef's kiss. Lestat Fraudia was amazing.

[Joanna Robinson]

So good.

[Mallory Rubin]

That whole seance, the introduction in the show of Merrick, I really thought that was, like, mesmerizing. That entire sequence. The performances are sensational. And there's just these moments where, again, one of the things I've appreciated about this season is trying to understand and read something in a look. So when I think probably one of the moments we both loved the most was Lestat serenading Louis as Gabriella watched them watch each other. But even just before that, I might

[Joanna Robinson]

start crying right now.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's like so good. The really charming. I was chuckling in that way that you like, kind of like feel yourself smiling on reflex when you're just watching

[Joanna Robinson]

something that makes you happy.

[Mallory Rubin]

Lestat goes up for soundcheck. Gabriella and Louis are next to each other for the first time. Lestat is hamming it up. And there's the great. He's shy. It's hard to be him.

[Joanna Robinson]

Like, wink, wink.

[Mallory Rubin]

We've never spoken, but we both understand this person in our own ways. And then we watch him use Lestat, use the cloud gift to just kind of, like, bop around the rafters on set. It was such a perfect little encapsulation of the dynamics of the show. And then to watch Gabriella, like, the look on her face as she's turning and looking at Louis and try to understand what is going through her mind in that moment, I just thought it was great. Obviously, there's some wild Daniel and Armand stuff in this episode. The Larry, I almost called him Patrick Schitt's Creek High for eye, as always. The Larry stuff was harrowing. It was just really, really good two episodes and episode six, I thought was just amazing.

[Joanna Robinson]

I really, really agree. I think having these absolutely showstopping scenes for both the Akasha character and for Claudia, for those actresses to just like, really, really stop us in our tracks. We're going to talk about the Akasha scene, of course, but I just thought that was like, jaw dropping and, like, it's funny. I was watching with my best friend Diana, and she loves both ironically and also kind of not the Queen of the Damned movie, which is a terrible movie, but, like, is one of her favorite movies, but is a terrible movie. And, like, she knows that. And I was worried because, like, I know a lot of people are really attached to Aaliyah's performance of Akasha. So there's like, a lot of expectation around that. And it's a very different performance. And so then I was like, I turned to Diana and I was like, I had already seen it. I was like, what did you. Did it. Did it. Did this Akasha work for you? And she's like, Aaliyah, who essentially, she was just like, this is incredible. And I mean, like, with love and respect to Aaliyah, but it was just sort of like, this is just absolutely astounding stuff. It was so good in, like, minutes, mere minutes of airtime. I cannot wait to spend more time with that character. So I thought that was incredible. I thought, you know, we've had some questions about the Regina character and, like, what they're doing with Claudia this season and all this sort of stuff like that. And so for this to be the payoff, this seance scene, which is drawn from another book, which we'll talk about, but, like, was just so hard to watch. Painful and just like an incredible, once again, showcase for that actress. So just incredible, incredible work for those women. And then. Yeah. And then Louis and Lestat, our guy. Guys, I also think that that Gabrielle, Gabriella scene that you're describing with, with Louis, the two of them sitting there, that's the most I've enjoyed That character in that performance, no question, you know, she's like, I'll protect you. Like all, you know, her whole, like, you shouldn't come. Like, all of that stuff, like all of her scheming, all of her whatever, all of her jealousies, all of her trying to be charming, but Louie is not into it at all. Is just. I loved that exchange between the two of them. And I was just sort of like, this is the Gabriella. I wish I had had this response to more of her this season.

[Mallory Rubin]

You know what I mean? Yeah, same. I really. I found myself quite taken with her.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

In this stretch, which was really fun. And I think that overall. Cause you could put some of the Daniel moments, for sure, in this bucket as well. This was a great stretch of the series of the season for like, how do I put this? So much of the show is by design and intention, overt and in your face. Right. Like, it's flashy, it's showy, it's supposed to be. Lestat is that character, especially this season. Right. And there are a lot of moments in these episodes where the characters are saying things out loud and interrogating, why do I behave this way? Why do I do the things that I do?

[Joanna Robinson]

Who are we? Why are we here?

[Mallory Rubin]

We love that.

[Joanna Robinson]

Are we evil?

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Am I evil?

[Mallory Rubin]

And then paired with that, a lot of moments where you were trying to just look into someone's eyes and understand the thing that they are, the truth of what they are not sharing either with the other people in the conversation or maybe even with themselves. Like, what are they not ready to acknowledge? What don't they understand? So it was a great, I think six in particular. A great episode for, like, motive. Right. What motivates characters to behave a certain way? And I think what's.

[Joanna Robinson]

What's both interesting and maybe I think a little bit frustrating is like, when you hear Rolin and his writers and producers talk about this, they're like, oh, that Armand and Larry's scene in the subway. Or, oh, the introduction that we get of Marius, like, you're not getting the whole story. There's more to that that you're not seeing. And part of that is like the, you know, the POV that we're in, the Marius we meet is the Marius that Lestat remembers. He remembers getting a 10 minute orientation and then Marius, like, fucking off. Like, that's what he remembers. Is that truly what happened? Unclear. It's different from the Marius in the book. And so Roland's like, we plan to do much more with that character. And like, you know, this is just a taste of him and there's more to come. But. And that's intriguing, but also can sometimes be frustrating if you feel on the outside of a story that you're watching. But to your point about sort of the outspoken, literal existentialism that we hear from both Lestat and Akasha and some other characters. And then you get a moment, like in episode five when Lestat goes to and claps eyes on Regina for the first time.

[Mallory Rubin]

So good.

[Joanna Robinson]

And then she leaves. And so we just watch his face when she can't see his face. And then we watch him put the mask back on and the posturing back on and his incredibly stealth hoodie, sunglasses disguise that he has on, but like that. And then the lies that he's telling Louis and the truth and the core truths that he's telling Louis at the same time when he goes out and he's like, it's nothing like her. I mean, it is and it isn't. And, you know, and all that's incredible. Or in terms of, like, musical performance, I have been so excited all season about all the music, and music is storytelling and all that sort of stuff. But we, you know, the way we have set it up to talk today, I wanted to talk about specifically about Stained Glass Eyes, the song that Lestat sings about Claudia. And then you already mentioned Lestat serenading Louis. Like, I think those are the two. I don't know what they have planned for the finale. In terms of musical moments, how do you. How do you top that? But like this singing serenading Claudia's ghost and then not just Lestat singing to Louis, but Louis face while watching Lestat sing to him is just like ecstasy to me in terms of, like, musical performance as a heightened emotional delivery and singing the things you can't say.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

And all of that, you know, those

[Mallory Rubin]

were my two favorite songs of the season, I would say, by a comfortable margin, which, like, for me is maybe about musical style and taste.

[Joanna Robinson]

I would.

[Mallory Rubin]

But I did. I found myself listening to both of those, and I was like. I could see myself as like a teenager, you know, hitting just, like, repeat on my Discman time after time after time.

[Joanna Robinson]

Billboard does not agree with you.

[Mallory Rubin]

Don't fuck you. Billboard and Pitchfork. Only in this fictional universe. The 3.1. So tough, though, Daniel then immediately invoking it to goad Lestat. Very funny and very satisfying. I thought that the, you know, to your point about, like, music as expression and something that can unlock expression in a different form, which was one of the Things we were. And I think in slightly different ways, because you were a musical, like, this was for you just, this is cocaine. Right. And for me, I was more like, I'm interested. Yeah. But I think that idea, specifically in a series that is very focused on point of view, perspective, some sort of emotional truth, and reveal how interesting it was for music to be the conduit to expression. Right. And I love that those two songs, which felt like I have also enjoyed the music all season, but did really feel like they transcended the achievement to that point. They achieved different things. I thought, like the first, the Stained Glass Eyes, was to me, music as self. Like, as self care. Music is therapy. It's like Lestat working through. Through what that encounter with Regina Fraudia called up inside of him. The serenade to Louis is like that. And I like thinking about, is that supposed to be for Gabriella? Is it supposed to be for Louis? Could that answer be different depending on the moment?

[Joanna Robinson]

I think it's for both of them, but when he starts performing it, it's for Louis. Clearly looking at Louis, no question.

[Mallory Rubin]

And the blackening of the story screen around them so everything else is blotted out. And then we see the jealousy of, like, one of our favorite narcissists, Gabriella, like, wait, this isn't about me. Someone else has a greater hold on you than I do. And so this idea of, like, being able to convey something to someone who you have experienced a rupture with, like a seismic rupture. And that element of episode six was just both for character, like this relationship that we're invested in, but just more broadly, like, they're immortal vampires, but, like, they're also people or they were once. Yes. And I loved the way that Lestat invoked in their argument. You know, that half that human soul, that half of you that you like to call upon, like, when it's convenient, basically, but that is there. And so what a human way to try to express. And then just the very organic, natural, like, flirtation and the half smile and look and the, you know, down the. In the limo, first Lima ride, more flirtatious and charming than the second when things obviously went wrong. Tough to see that a person you're in love with is fucking their mom.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's not how you want to find either. No. Your current. Your current boyfriend texts you, hey, is this your ex fucking his mom?

[Mallory Rubin]

Incredible. I do like the idea that Daniel prodded Shirley by Armand is like, I'm just going to distribute this on my own. I'm uploading this oh, yeah, yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Great independent journalism. We love it. The comp that I'm. That I made in our notes here and immediately came to me for episode six was the film Before Sunset, the middle piece of the before trilogy. One of my favorite movies. Any of those movies is a walk and talk movie, you know, and this. So you could slot it in anywhere. But the way this hits Before Sunset is there's the, like. It's not meeting someone, and it's not the, like, okay, we're together. What does that mean? It's the reconnection. The. Yeah, it's so funny. I invoke this phrase all the time. And then I had a listener email me and was like, do you know that that's literally from just one film studies book? And I was like, oh, yeah, I read that in college. Okay. I thought it was a broader thing, but the comedy plot of Remarriage, which is a phrase I like to talk to, but it's one of my favorite tropes. This is what Much Ado About Nothing is about. This is what the Philadelphia Story is about. Like, it's. We used to be together. We were apart. Now we've come back together, and there's just something undeniable here. Despite all of our resentments and all the real reasons why it didn't work out the first time, there's something so strong here. But we know each other, and we know how to push each other's buttons. And so all, like, that energy, that energy of, like, history hanging over you, knowing exactly how to cut someone, but also, like, but I'm here with you, and this is still something. Despite all that hurt and despite all that distance, there's still something here, and it's worth pursuing. Yeah. And so it's one of my favorite storytelling, you know, contrivances. And so to have that here inside of this, you know, it's Halloween night. We start. We walk out of the apartment, and it's like, we have to meet with the witch in a couple hours. And so we're gonna have dinner with Dan and we're gonna go to rehearsal. Then we're gonna go to have a seance, and we're go get our head start chopped off on a bench. You know, it's a busy day, but, you know, it's a one crazy night. Which is another sort of trope that I love. Meets the comedy plot of Remarriage, like, which is not a thing, but I'll keep trying to make it a thing on a microphone. And, you know, and it's Vampires all inside of. And it's a musical all inside of a show that I love. So thanks for the thriving. I really appreciate it. You're thriving.

[Mallory Rubin]

I don't know how they can possibly

[Joanna Robinson]

top it with the finale, but we'll see.

[Mallory Rubin]

Excited to find out. I love the Before Sunset shout out. That's great. The before trilogy is one of my, you know, three favorite trilogies ever made. I just adore those movies, as you know. And one of my hot take Child of Divorce takes, which I think I said on the Before Sunset rewatchables but can't remember, is that Before Midnight is actually your favorite. My favorite because I'm a child of divorce. So I'm just like, there's something so raw and real about even this great love.

[Joanna Robinson]

If we were to take the GQ Best Friend, you would know. And they were like, which of the before movies is Mallory Sidmouth? I'd be like, before Midnight.

[Mallory Rubin]

And the true answer is, like, my favorite before movie is the one I'm watching at that moment. But, like, Before Midnight has a hold on me that is, I think, undeniable.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Because of the role that divorce, or just, like, fractures in relationship has played in my life. But Before Sunset, before, like, there is something about. I think it's a perfect comp for this. And I. One of the things I really love about your observation is, like, there's an interesting part of this with Lestat where, like, thinking about Lestat and Louis through that lens of rediscovery, right. Something is really toxic or wrong or damaging in the relationship, but you're drawn to each other. There's a pull that is undeniable. There's a magnetism that will keep bringing these characters back to each other. That's like, also. And so when you say that or. And you think about the before movies, you want to think of it as a relationship, a duo that is, like, distinct. You think, you watch this movie, you're like, will I ever know a love like that? Will I ever lose a love like that? Will I ever miss a love like that? You could. You could apply that description to Lestat and Gabriella. That, like, we are just draw. We hurt each other. We wound each other. Yes. Maybe. Yeah. You know, this idea that part of an immortal life, part of just the span of time and the swath of time is like, do you find yourself moving back towards someone who has probably wounded you or who you have probably hurt seismically? Because the centuries will pass and you will both still be there. That's like. And I Think that the love that and the draw that Louis and Lestat have is in many respects different from the one that Lestat and Gabriella have. To be clear, I think one of those is actually love, and one of them is a needy, narcissistic, befouled obsession.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

But still, like, the fact that Lestat is like, you left me in this episode again. He's like, why did you leave me? Which time? But here they are again.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

This is interesting to think about by

[Joanna Robinson]

the river when you were three, very tough.

[Mallory Rubin]

The stick stuff was so good.

[Joanna Robinson]

It was really funny. Oh, what does that stick to? What does that stick to?

[Mallory Rubin]

Incredible.

[Joanna Robinson]

All right, let's go now to our deepish dive.

[Mallory Rubin]

Love it.

[Joanna Robinson]

All right. Because we are doing two episodes mashed together. We're just gonna sort of hit some buckets along the way. We're not gonna go beat by beat in these two episodes. And I just think we should begin at the end. Let's begin at the end.

[Mallory Rubin]

Wonderful.

[Joanna Robinson]

Which is the Halloween setting. Here we are sort of back where we started in Montreal. It's Halloween again.

[Mallory Rubin]

Two years have passed, which is interesting. So that's a. The band has been together.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Alex at the beginning of the episode. Alex at the end of the episode. And then what I'm calling a fairly silly cliffhanger for a number of reasons. And I like. I suppose if it had just been Lestat losing his head, I suppose some people watching at home could think, okay, we opened this season, we hear that Lestat's dead. Is this how Lestat dies? Is he die because he gets his head chopped off on this bench? Right. And, hey, folks, maybe still, that's true. But I don't think so. Sure hope not. I mean, they're making a lot of adaptive changes. So I actually don't know. We haven't seen the finale. I don't know what they're gonna do, but I think there's no way we don't get a concert in the finale. I think that's zero percent possibility. And also, we've seen Louis alive with his head on his shoulders, missing other body parts, but, like, his head is on his shoulders. So, like, Louis also being here, you're like, well, I know this isn't the end. Yeah. For these characters. Yeah. A reminder for folks at home that we were. You know. Because I. I heard from some people who watch this episode, and they're like, I'm sorry, what's going on? They cut their heads off. And I'm like, well, if you overanalyze every Single word of every single episode, you will know that they've been laying track for this. In terms of, like, the head that Louis cuts off. Yeah, exactly. And still talks to our guy. Fareed was like, hey, guess what? Certain class, you know, powerful older vampires can have their heads cut off and they can still be alive.

[Mallory Rubin]

So he said class B vampires can survive for two hours after decapitation, but then went on to say a vampire of Leatsat's breeding could last four to five times that. So.

[Joanna Robinson]

So, yeah, ticking clock, eight to 10 hours.

[Mallory Rubin]

But we've got a minute to deal with this. And what's. What was interesting to think back on there was that Daniel knows that.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, and Armand knows this.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

So I don't think there's.

[Mallory Rubin]

They don't even. They don't think they're killing them.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right.

[Mallory Rubin]

Are they teaching them a lesson?

[Joanna Robinson]

We're gonna have some theories in a second. I just really want to mention also one other thing, which is, like, as Lestat may have mentioned one or once or twice, he has the blood of Akasha in him. So that makes him extra special. Extra special. Juicy.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

And when he and Louis were sharing a pint in the bar, he. He put some of his blood, at Louis request, into Louis beer. And Louis, like, this tastes fucking delish.

[Mallory Rubin]

Delish.

[Joanna Robinson]

He orgasmic. He loved sipping on that blood beer, that Lestat.

[Mallory Rubin]

Would you try blood beer?

[Joanna Robinson]

If it's Lestat, maybe, yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Lestat blood beer.

[Joanna Robinson]

Lestat blood beer. Akasha blood beer. I would also try put you on the ceiling. Why not?

[Mallory Rubin]

That looks fun. That looked like a party. Especially after the empty seat. Like everyone's got their name plate, but no one's there other than the cabbages, the literal heads of cab and the

[Joanna Robinson]

moldy bread from Amman.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. And then you're just sort of up in the ceiling. Oh, this is a good time.

[Joanna Robinson]

But so Louis freshly sipped on some of Lesas blood, which you might recall has the blood of Akasha in it. So, like, they're extra special, juicy right now, juiced up on that blood.

[Mallory Rubin]

Great stuff.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. So let's talk about theories. I think this is a really fun place to theorize because this is not a thing that happens in the book and we have not seen the finale. So what do we think is happening here?

[Mallory Rubin]

I don't know. So Armand does not want the great conversion to unfold.

[Joanna Robinson]

That seems like why. At least partially why he talked Larry into jumping in front of the subway as he's like, anything to fuck up the band, I will do.

[Mallory Rubin]

Do you Think he's just very, very, very familiar. Like, has he called up Elizabeth Fierman, our wonderful live events lead, and just like run me through a pre event schedule? Okay. That's exactly when soundcheck has to be. That's when this door's at the. And he's just like eight to 10 hours. If I just fuck up that schedule, they can't do the concert.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's so funny. Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Is that what happened?

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Do you think.

[Joanna Robinson]

Do you think they also eat California chicken? The pre show.

[Mallory Rubin]

The pre show snack?

[Joanna Robinson]

Maybe for the.

[Mallory Rubin]

Some pretzel chips? I love a pretzel chip.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's interesting because Lestat, Lestat and Louis and Armand have such a depth of history. And Daniel and Louis and all of them have such history with each other. And, like, the rawness of the wound and that desire for vengeance is both deep and, like, newly fresh.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right. And there's been these, like, very ominous mentions of like. And that's when I super pissed off Daniel, and that's when I super pissed off and humiliated Armand. So, like, are these just sort of like fresh humiliations and Daniel Armand freshly together? Like, you know, it'd be really fun, right? Fudgeing, chopping off their heads. And like, maybe they are trying to make it permanent. Maybe they're going to, you know, put Listat's head in a bowling bag and just like, you know, hide it so you can't reattach it.

[Mallory Rubin]

If you leave the head sitting there on a nighttime park bench for 10 hours, the sun comes up.

[Joanna Robinson]

Ooh, tough.

[Mallory Rubin]

So that's concerning. We need someone to show up and scoop up those heads.

[Joanna Robinson]

So my theory.

[Mallory Rubin]

And take them away from the sunshine.

[Joanna Robinson]

Not that we think much of her, but my theory is that this is a job for Gabriella because. Or the vampire tough cookie, of whom I am a huge fan, but because there was that weird line earlier where Lestat told Gabriella to, like, give Alix some attention. And we saw Alex lurking about in his Dracula masquerade. Stuff like, really great and spooky. Like, Alex is quite spooky in this episode. But, like, eyes and ears for Armand or whatever the case may be trailing them the whole night. Who's to say? But if Gabriella is nearby, then, like, she could help. Another theory. This is just theories again, because I don't know anything. But, like, what if they do snap, like, snatch up Lestat's head, but they leave Louis behind because he's less important? And then it's Gabriella and Louis have to work together to find Lestat's head to put it back on his body.

[Mallory Rubin]

I mean that would be great. We probably only have 53 minutes.

[Joanna Robinson]

I needed to put five hour finale.

[Mallory Rubin]

That would be.

[Joanna Robinson]

Or they just. Or they just pop their heads right back on at the beginning of the next episode. I don't know.

[Mallory Rubin]

I like yeah. Thinking about Gabriella as a character who could be in a position of. Not because she shares an attachment. Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Maybe I don't think it's because she cares. It's because she needs the concert to

[Mallory Rubin]

have practical aspect of it. Because it's like they're here to hear you sing the 50,000. Like we got to give them the show so that she can exactly enact her agenda. Thinking about. So Gabriella as Alex's maker slash mother. Has she ever failed to properly understand the maternal presence in a young man's life before? Open to interpretation. You know, mileage may vary.

[Joanna Robinson]

What would the cabbages say to pull?

[Mallory Rubin]

It's not just be present for Alex, it's pull him out of Armand's thrall.

[Joanna Robinson]

Thrall.

[Mallory Rubin]

Because we have not only. And we've been kind of since the minute we saw the.

[Joanna Robinson]

The like AA meeting.

[Mallory Rubin]

The AA meeting, the group. And then heard the way that Alex talked about Armand. You know, I don't wanna use the word sponsor God in this stretch. The specific things that Alex said to Larry mentioning like their, you know, him being a shitty goalie when they were kids, but you're a shredder with an ax. And then planting the seed about like, you can rest now. By the way. I was thinking of in a more pure and less potentially very evil and manipulative way. I was thinking of Pepper and Tony, you know, and just like it's. You can rest now.

[Joanna Robinson]

Rest now.

[Mallory Rubin]

But he was saying, Alex was saying to his brother, like I know.

[Joanna Robinson]

And then Armand's gonna one more take and then rest.

[Mallory Rubin]

And then Armand uses that exact language when he joins Larry at the subway station. So the idea of Armand using Alex as his wedge his to go back to that scalpel idea to cut into the band. We have to pull Alex out, out of that power.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right.

[Mallory Rubin]

So that's going to be hard. Is there? How do you do that quickly given the grip that Armand holds?

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, you feel like Alex could be. If Gabriella can use Alex to get to find out where Armand and Daniel

[Mallory Rubin]

have stashed them to basically work with them instead of Armand and Daniel or

[Joanna Robinson]

be still be in the band.

[Mallory Rubin]

I mean he does really feel strongly about making a good record. That's clear on The Daniels list of grievances front, and it's long. How high do you think one has to ask, what is with the tan, Dan, did you indulge in over your coffin again? How high up did that shoot on the list of, like, this guy? That was so funny.

[Joanna Robinson]

Did you connect with, given your current

[Mallory Rubin]

sunlit glow, Daniel, at the dinner.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

When they brought in a descendant of the Leon cs, by the way. Delicate and flowery, which sounds like a lovely description, I guess, if you're drinking a very attractive woman's blood. I was like, this is also kind of a dig because, like, delicate flower is like an insult, I think. Like, you're a delicate flower, potentially. Your blood is the blood of delicate flowers. Like, we're going to. We're going to take you down. Maybe delicate flower can also be a compliment. I don't know if it was at that dinner, but it certainly could be.

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't think anything that comes out of Dan's mouth is a compliment, so that's true.

[Mallory Rubin]

My stepmom likes to refer to my dad, me, all of us, when we're sick and just as delicious flower. So this certainly could be a term of endearment. I clocked it immediately.

[Joanna Robinson]

Now I get it. I'm like.

[Mallory Rubin]

I'm like, yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

And you're like this.

[Mallory Rubin]

These ribbons are such delicate flowers. You have a cough and you're going to bitch and moan about it for two weeks. It's like, I am, but Dan.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Daniel with the, like, really red, kind of swollen face, but then the pale skin around the eyes because he clearly had sunglasses on, which I don't really wear, and I should because I live in Los Angeles. But I was like, that is definitely what I looked like. It reminded me of July 4th weekend. Check the deep dive footage from Tuesday.

[Joanna Robinson]

In high school. Like, a bunch of kids that I went to high school with would go, like, to Tahoe over the weekend to ski. Not me, but they did. And they would come back with, like, these obscene goggle tans. Goggle tans. Oh, obscene. Okay. Anything else you want to say about this beheading other than we don't think it's permanent? I think it's kind of silly, but okay.

[Mallory Rubin]

You know, I like it as something to add to their trauma. The trauma bond like this is even if they just. The pop of those heads right back on.

[Joanna Robinson]

Going through it with Claudia wasn't enough. We got our heads lopped off together.

[Mallory Rubin]

Decapitation on a romantic park bench. It's going to be something that bonds them further. So that's nice. I thought that the. Why do I actively manically pursue failure? Maybe it's just a vampire's burden. What do you replace death with? What's to live for if there's no end Exchange that directly preceded the chopping of the heads. That was an intense thing to think about. And we love, like, we talk about this with good place stories where you're like, that's a different context. But hey, there's no end in sight. Well, what do things? How do you find out something matters?

[Joanna Robinson]

Because they end.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

No. And this idea of failure, you know, like the failures and sort of tracking when that gets reintroduced. Like tracking when that voiceover comes back in. You're listening to side B, you know, number 58, the failures or whatever. I think those moments are quite interesting to go back and sort of note when we are reminded that this is a massive thing. Failure for Lestat. All of what we're watching, not just according to Billboard and Pitchfork, but like, you know, objectively, whatever he was trying to do here absolutely failed. And he failed with Claudia and he failed with Louis, and he failed with Gabrielle and you know, all this sort of stuff like that. And so when you hear Maria screaming, fail, fail. As he's running out with Akasha, you know, that's another one of his failures. So I. I just think that's really interesting. But also like sort of his examination, like, how ironic is this use of failures here at the end of the day or how sincere is it? I don't know.

[Mallory Rubin]

I love Listet and I want to support him in all of his endeavors. Not all of them. Not the incest party. I stand with Louis. Don't fuck your mom.

[Joanna Robinson]

How brave.

[Mallory Rubin]

You shouldn't come in. The door you came out of is iconic. Iconic. The Marius Akasha. You are now the keeper. And he's like, I just wanted to like stay in that money grave. What the fuck, man? I didn't ask for this internship.

[Joanna Robinson]

An 80 year dirt nap was not long enough. And I really relate. I agree.

[Mallory Rubin]

I quite agree. This is real. You had one job stuff. Marius was like, no, don't let her drink some blood. And he's like, what if I paint you with my blood as beautiful red?

[Joanna Robinson]

Just a little pop of color on your lips for Marius, who gave him not like, stay a couple days to train him. Yeah, don't just like, yada, yada, yada. Here. Here are the.

[Mallory Rubin]

He's like, you only have one job, but you're gonna learn on the job.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's ash not blood. Did you get that? Okay, bye. Like, really tough.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

And you're gonna be alone here.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. For quite a while.

[Joanna Robinson]

For, like, nearly a decade. Okay.

[Mallory Rubin]

Gonna scratch the record. And then what?

[Joanna Robinson]

Speaking of which.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

The queen arrived. Akasha.

[Mallory Rubin]

Boy,

[Joanna Robinson]

we regret that we had to miss last week. And I really regret that we had to miss Akasha's arrival. That is, like, the one thing that I really wish we had gotten to talk about in real time. But, hey, we're talking. We're talking about it now. Queen of the Damned herself, Akasha.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Mother of all vampires, meets Lestat, king of mommy issues. What could go wrong?

[Mallory Rubin]

Sure. It'll be fine.

[Joanna Robinson]

What could go right. Blinking. You'll miss a moment where I think Marius implies that Akasha wanted to kill Gabriella. Eliminate the competition. He says to Akasha, wanted to take care of her, as you said. While he was there. She was not wanted to take care of her, as you said. And I. I don't know how to interpret that other than, like, take care of her as in, like, kill her. Because I don't think it was, like, Right. Give her a pedicure, A relaxing spa day. No, I think Marius would be good at a pedicure. I just have that feeling. But I. I. So, like, was Akasha. Was Akasha, like, also, like, you should not come in the door you came out of? Or is she, like, no competition for Queen of all Mommies or, you know, what's going on there? I don't know.

[Mallory Rubin]

Some sort of kind of immediate connection and heightened tie. Right. Because Marius basically says it took. I had to wait for fucking ever.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. And she's like, hey, honey. Right away.

[Mallory Rubin]

Immediately whispering into Lestat's mind about various things, including ice cream scoopers. Who among us and wanted him to be retrieved for this job? So that's interesting too. Like, why him? I mean, why not him? Who wouldn't pick him? Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

On the official pod, they asked. Sheila, asked him this question, and she was like.

[Mallory Rubin]

Basically,

[Joanna Robinson]

she said, like, something about the charismatic twinkle, I think is one of the phrases she used, which is, like, of course, extremely true. But also, she was just talking about this idea of, like, wanting to have someone who matches her. And, like, she's an incredibly powerful person. And in Lestat, she sees someone who is potentially incredibly powerful.

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, that was the kind of recurring refrain in that stretch. And I guess, in general, across the show, this idea of, like, are you worthy? Right. Are you worthy of being chosen? Are you worthy of someone's love? So Marius identifying him as worthy and first of this appointment. But then when he comes back to find that Lestat has failed to follow the fairly simple. Just don't give her blood. Like just one thing. Just don't, don't give her any blood. And he says he's unworthy.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

So unworthy of the responsibility, unworthy of the inheritance. Jealousy, no question.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think quite jealous. I think Marius is quite jealous there. This is what Sheila said. She said the magnitude of rage that Akasha has. She's going to need someone by her side who can match her. Marius, not so much.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Charismatic. Twinkle, fortitude is what she said. Those are the notes I took as, as Roland Jones said in the official pod that this was like essentially their pitch for season four. How did it work for you? More of this.

[Mallory Rubin]

Fantastic. Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Is this a season of television?

[Mallory Rubin]

Why not? Okay. There was a intrigue and a menace entwined in these sequences that I really loved. The design, the character design, the fact that there's this like, you know, from Marius, he's like, it took me so fucking long to get her on this list and now I'm gonna have to. But just the way that we built that, the tension mounted the stone like quiet tap. And then suddenly the ice cream scoop knocked over. And what is paired with that moment? What are these awakenings triggered by the playing of the music, et cetera? And then the like sitting up finally. And the reach. And like he has to decide still to take that hand. Right. So there's something working in both directions there. And he does.

[Joanna Robinson]

And then desire brings him.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

In her mention, I mean, like, I don't, I have pored over her speech and I have ideas about what each line means. And plenty of people have ideas about what each line means. I, I. But I don't have a definitive answer because it's not, it's not book canon, this, what some of what she's saying here. There's lore, but, but when she's talking about desire. And I was wondering if like that desire was her desire for Lestat or her desire for other things that she's done in her past. I don't know, but that idea of like desire for Lestat. Who among us, you know, would not reach out for Lestat deeply? Especially after he washes the mud off of him. His like post dirt nap wig or, or, or just the mud they put in Sam Reid's hair. I just thought it looked great. I thought her design was amazing. In, in a season of questionable wig. Marius, some people are not fond of like his particular wig. Et cetera I think she looks fantastic. She was laying there for. That's her for most of the scenes. They put a mask on top of her face to like, make her look more immobile. But that is like actually her laying on the slab. So that's incredible work. She was like, I was trying not to breathe and it really looks like I wasn't breathing, which is great. There was like a doll for like one scene, I think, but like the way she just. She looks like a statue, but she looks incredible. She looks beautiful and terrifying. And I'm just sort of like. I was like ensorceled, but also just like petrified. Like, you know, it was just so incredible. And I love the way that she, like the way she starts with these, these like sort of like the addled mind of a vampire scare. Like a very old, very powerful addled vampire scary. So when she's just like asking all these questions again, there's some lore here. There's, there's. And then there's also just sort of like this litany of, of things that women have had to endure. You know, that is. That is the subject of. Of her rant here. She's asking all these questions. She's. She's confused, she's upset, she's all this sort of stuff. And then she switches to the answers, right? I am her. I am the girl. I am the answer, yes. Like, it's so scary and so good.

[Mallory Rubin]

It was very disarming in a quite compelling way. I thought that the. I am the girl, I am the God, I am the voice, I am the soul, I am the night. That whole stretch, because I know nothing about the story, I was like, oh, okay. How much of that is in terms of tense, right? And the point of view question, how much of this is Akasha speaking in all those respects about herself and her evolution and her journey and the different aspects that she can manifest herself, embody. Or is there some aspect, or maybe not, or maybe it's end or some aspect of like. Especially because I was thinking about the recurring beat across the season of like the voices and the hearing the voices and the channeling of the voices. And who in the great vampire army sprawling across the world is voicing something that you like the antenna, right? I'm like, is this everyone else? Is she parroting or channeling the voices of the other vampires that are a part of. Of her tree that was. I don't know the answer, but that I think either feels like potentially excited

[Joanna Robinson]

to play tree when you love talking about coaching trees. I Love coaching trees.

[Mallory Rubin]

And as you know, I just love trees in general. I do love trees. So trees coming up a couple times for Marius. That was exciting. I thought that on the visual front end, the speechifying, the kind of like, almost. I can't control the monologue that's coming out of me again. Who among us come on the vod?

[Joanna Robinson]

Akasha.

[Mallory Rubin]

Akasha. Come and join us on Alsamar.

[Joanna Robinson]

So Akasha Messaria are two podcasting talents waiting to. To happen.

[Mallory Rubin]

Can you imagine? Can you imagine a must listen and it's not just a. That's a must watch as well. That's. That's why the video. Upon arrows upon us, there was something about the. There's like, the idea of power that has to be both preserved and contained. Right. We have to protect and nurture and create. Keep. But in this exact way.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right. Don't wake them up.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Eat them, but don't wake them up.

[Mallory Rubin]

Ominous in a harbinger. But also feels like, you know, even though we understand that Akasha is the supreme force, you know, also interesting to kind of apply that. That logic to our other characters.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, I love that. On the, like, sort of musicality front, we've been talking all season about this, about the way in which this show, even before it was a musical, had such musicality to the language. And hearing Rollin Jones say that he always writes to music was so unsurprising to me. I was just like, a fucking course he does. And so I was just thinking back through of some of these moments that feel like lyrics, feel like refrains almost, that we've experienced, like, Louis's last monologue before he becomes a vampire in the season premiere, which I think about all the time. I run to the bottle, I run to the grift, I run to Beth. Bad beds. I laid down with a man. I laid down with the devil. And he has his roots in me. All his spindly roots in me. Or, like, is that what makes you fascinating? Armand's repetition of that. Did you eat the baby? Did you stutter as a child? Dan's journalistic repetitions, like, all of that. And so when you get to Akasha and her sort of like, I am, I am, I am. Like, it just, like, goes into this idea of, like, the way this show is written and the. And the way the. It's not just the music, it's the words that become these earworms of just sort of like, I just, like, have lines of the show running through my brain.

[Mallory Rubin]

Not.

[Joanna Robinson]

Not just the quick, clever asides that we love. But also just these grandiose speeches that are delivered in this rhythmic fashion that just like spindly roots in you of.

[Mallory Rubin]

Of language.

[Joanna Robinson]

I just love it.

[Mallory Rubin]

Gorgeous.

[Joanna Robinson]

All right. I don't need to go into all the lore that's here at all, because some of it is. Would be considered spoilers, I would say. But she mentions this name, Amel.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

And I think that's worth noting that that's the name of the original demon that made Akasha the first vampire. So before she was a vampire, she was just a girl. She was a queen. Not just a girl. She's queen of Egypt. Or like. Actually, I think it's Egypt. They sort of take over the. Sort of like Osire. Anyway, she was a queen one. And I would say, like. But she was like one of the many girls that she mentioned this beach. Like, she was once a girl right before she became a queen and then a vampire. But she knows what it is. And then, you know, she did things that I would not say make her a girl's girl, but maybe she has changed her mind after many centuries on this lab, you know, So I think about. And then her mate next to her, Enkiel. So they were like the original vampires. They've turned to stone as their desire to connect the human world has ebbed. But they must be kept alive, for they are the life source of all the vampires. And that's the sort of anecdote that Marius tells when he's like, I left Enkiel out in the sun, and then a bunch of vampires just burnt up in flames because we're all connected, right? And Lysat's like, good thing I found a bog.

[Mallory Rubin]

And Marius is like, like, oh, a bog, a bog. The yearning tendrils for the bog was so funny. I had a. This, like. I had a couple questions about this just in terms of the vampire canon of this universe. Because, like, you know, kill the one, kill the many. Like a very, you know, kill the sire.

[Joanna Robinson]

Kill it.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, yeah, That's. That's a part of the wider canon in many stories. So this is here to conf. Like, if someone defines definitively killed Akasha, every vampire is gone.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's. That's the. That's the fear. Yeah. There. Okay, so this is my understanding. Yeah. There is like a core, a vampire core.

[Mallory Rubin]

Okay.

[Joanna Robinson]

A source of a power. Let's call it a glowing ball. Why not?

[Mallory Rubin]

Beautiful.

[Joanna Robinson]

Every time a new vampire is made, it gets sort of, like, diluted and spread out to the new vampires. And so, like, when Akasha and Keel were originally made. They were voracious in their appetite and could not stop killing and making and stuff like that. And as they made more, their sort of appetite dwindled. But there's this question of the Great Conversion is like, can you dilute the core too much? Like, that's sort of a question around this vampire math we're doing here. Is there such thing as too many? But there's this thing, and it's interesting because later, one of the lyrics that Lestat sings in Brutal of the song he sings to Louie talks about a thread. There's this idea of the silver thread which is almost this, like, vampiric umbilical cord that connects all of the vampires. So it is like sh. But the core can reside in other vampires. So it is currently housed in Akasha. She is the original. Okay. But should that house not be hospitable anymore, there are other places the core can go.

[Mallory Rubin]

Okay, so. So is it reasonable to assume that even if she were not killed, but if she were harmed, that a number. Because of what we learned from Marius and Lestat, like, the. The feel, even though the moon was out feeling the burning, if she were just harmed, that a number of vampires in the Great Conversion could be eliminated and culled, that the Great Conversion could be counteracted not even by killing her,

[Joanna Robinson]

but just by wounding her?

[Mallory Rubin]

Wounding her.

[Joanna Robinson]

Is that, theoretically, that's possible?

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. And then is it correct that that tie, that potentially mortal tie does not. That's not in place with other maker fledglings? Like when Magnus died? Lestow.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, yeah. No, it's not.

[Mallory Rubin]

Right.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

So that's just an Akasha and the Wild Akasha Keel.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Sort of thing.

[Mallory Rubin]

So that's good. Yeah, because that would have been concerning.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Okay.

[Joanna Robinson]

All right, couple other things before we leave. Akasha, our queen here.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

I mean, it's a great question. And, like, the. Of, like, how much the show is engaging with exactly the vampire canon of Van Rice. I'm unsure because they're. They're making some changes.

[Mallory Rubin]

Heard the Baltimore. Ooh. An open one. An open one.

[Joanna Robinson]

A really brilliant viewer connected this Akasha speak speech to this really eerie Samuel Beckett piece called Not I that he did in the 70s, where it's like, this woman who has experienced a lot of trauma in her life. The way that the play is put together, it's just a spotlight on a woman's mouth and it's all black otherwise. And she's like, I think 7 or 8ft off the stage. It's just her mouth. There's videos of this. It's, like, quite terrifying, but that sort of, like, extremely rapid speech and. And the repetition of the. And the bewilderment of, like, what has happened and all this sort of stuff like that is very similar. And so I would not be surprised, and especially given that Vampire Sam has been like, sort of connected with Samuel Beckett. I think that would be an interesting comp, but like a really cool kind of obscure possible inspo here.

[Mallory Rubin]

I like that.

[Joanna Robinson]

As soon as I saw that, I was like, really? And then I watched the video and I was like, ah, yeah, it's there and it's really scary and really good. But it's. Yeah, this idea of like a woman who has been voiceless for so long, finally having a voice, and what are all the things that would come out out were she given that opportunity? This is also Listat's origin as a musician. The birth of the artist, right?

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. This was really interesting because. Learn to endure the depths of living. Find yourself Lestat as a note from Marius. There's something kind of like empowering and encouraging about that. Ish. In the context of Marius being like, I pulled you from a grave you didn't want to leave and gave you a job you don't want to have. But then the fact that Lestat is like, I don't know how to play. And Marius tells him to recall his fledgling to mimic Nikki. And this idea that a wound, because that's a source of pain. But also watching Nikki play initially was a source of joy. Just a nice little reminder that those things are really never separate from each other. For Lestat, which is quite sad. Quite sad. This was also like the stretch of the blood overwhelms, you know, Lestat will bring it up later with Louis. Like, I and Louis kind of like, I'm calling bullshit on you, using that as an excuse.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, it's an interesting question. It would be sort of a show invention. I don't think the show is trying to, like, excuse everything that Lestat ever did, but is it something Lestat is trying to do? Like in his. When he dropped Louis, you know, from the sky, is that a moment where he was like, oh, the blood of Akasha just took over and I didn't have control over that. And is that real or is that just an excuse he's making? You know?

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, I like the idea that the show is especially, you know, it was funny how they kind of. They laugh, right? They sort of mock the gravity of invoking that idea. Louis and Lysat in that scene but that was where my head was, you know. Okay, is there some actual, like, what is inside of me and how do I learn to either or suppress or channel or wield or combat it, whatever the case may be. But yeah, that, you know, it made me won't get into, like, House of the Dragon spoilers for people who aren't caught up on that. But it did remind me a little bit of the conversations we've been having about some characters on that show. And like, what do you see and identify and say about the circumstances in your life that allow you to then kind of justify your bad behavior? Sure. And so that felt. Well, I. Like, what am I supposed to do? I have the blood of Kasha in me.

[Joanna Robinson]

I have the blood of Akasha.

[Mallory Rubin]

Me.

[Joanna Robinson]

Also, my mom fucked me. So I don't know. Not my fault. Last but not least. And I do wanna move on, but last but not least, I will just say that it's not just Lestat's music that awoke Akasha. Though that is canonically sort of what happens in the book is that him playing wakes her up. And then again later, she's like, ah, this rock music, how interesting. It's his existential pondering, right? Like, you know, when the scoop goes clouded into the ground, it's. Cause he's saying, if you were the first, then who made you? Why do we exist? Why do we endure it all? And why did you. She leave me? Am I evil? Is my evil sanctioned by nature or divine error? Where is God? And then Akasha awakes, like, brimming with her own questions, her own sort of existential questions. So I like this idea of just like she's responding not just to Leat the musician, but Leat the, The philosopher. Lestat, the thinker. Lestat, the lover of incest. I don't know, you know, I. I just, I. I think that connection, and that's very. That's very leat in the, in his narration, in the book. This constant am I evil? Like, who made me? Why am I here? Sort of stuff. So I love that.

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, waking via connection and then counteracting the great conversion via connection. That feels very much in play now you know why there are so few of us. I set us back ages. We are all connected to her. She is the seed. And if she burns, we all burn. Feels like that'll come into play.

[Joanna Robinson]

I mean. Yeah, sure does. Okay. Stained glass eyes. I don't want to dwell too long on episode five when we're here to talk about episode six.

[Mallory Rubin]

Anything more?

[Joanna Robinson]

We already talked about this, but anything more you want to say about Stained Glass Eyes? An incredible performance that we didn't already talk about.

[Mallory Rubin]

Man, I just thought this was really, really, really good. I, I, I thought that le. The look on his face when he went to the diner, Brick and Bacon, what an establishment. And just sat there and you can see the pain and the guilt and the shame on his face, even though he is very much in the fact finding for Louis and also trying to stifle and contain this toxicity of what is unfolding between the two of them. Just going back to the studio and immediately penning this ballad immediately. Don't you try to forget all the things you regret. Oh, my God, what an incredibly powerful idea. And I just thought it was really a lovely, lovely sequence,

[Joanna Robinson]

I think, I think Jacob Anderson as Louis in the car when he's, like, begging for Lestat to help him is incredible shit. Always. And then Sam Reed as Lestat when he sees her. Just like, these, these guys are just top tier, incredible stuff.

[Mallory Rubin]

I, I did love when Louis, when, Because Louis is texting him, begging him to come help, and Lestat's like, I got shot.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

And you didn't even call. You didn't check on me and Louis.

[Joanna Robinson]

Next time I get shot. Yeah, pick up the phone.

[Mallory Rubin]

I like the fact that Louis had the grace to say, like, I'm selfish. I'm selfish. And, like, I knew you were gonna bring it up. And I don't have an excuse. I actually don't have an explanation. And I'm sorry.

[Joanna Robinson]

I really love this, like, he's like, I'm selfish. And right in close proximity to Armand being like, to Dan, you know, you shaded him as a saint.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

You shaded him in gray as a saint, but he's cruel. Cruel.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

So, like, the real Louis that we're getting to know to a certain degree, who does not pick up the phone when you get shot in the street. Very tough. But this sort of, like, you came, you called moment, this is like a trope I love. And, like, Gabriella has sort of, like, invoked it a couple times, but her appearances are so toxic and so conditional and so sort of like, when she decides, you came, you called, she's gonna show up. But, like, Lestat's in the middle of recording his album, and Louis texts him and he's like, I'll go, I'll go, I'll go. You know, he shows up, I'll go, you came, you called.

[Mallory Rubin]

Like, and the way that he, when he walked over, when he walked out of the restaurant and over to the window of the car. He's like, it's not her. And the way you mentioned earlier, the kind of entwinement of truth and lies that he is telling Louis what he knows Louis needs to hear, it's not her. And even invoking the specimen of the specificity of. To Louis, the eyes, but to Regina, to Fraudia, she's like, I look like her. Don't. Don't I? Like, I can see on your face how much I look like her. And he's like, you have the hip. The gate.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

The heart murmur. Here's the list of differences that I logically can point to, to rationally tell myself it's not you so that I don't fall into the pit that Lou was in. But, yeah, you can see that, like, it's. He doesn't make the same decisions Louie does, but you can see how. How easily that could happen.

[Joanna Robinson]

I love this. Like, the day you were born, I was shaken like a leaf on an old oak tree. Then you stayed like a thorn. Red roses raining down till they flooded me. This, like, idea, obviously, we love a tree. We love a botanical imagery. But, like, how much he was. Did not. Was so reluctant to make Claudia, how he didn't want to. How that scene plays differently in Lestat's recollection versus Louis's recollection. But also, like, you stayed like a thorn. Like, you were around and you were obnoxious and I hated you. But also, you're a beautiful rose. And also, then, also in the. In the same song, he's got lyrics that invoke that harrowing image of her turning to ash and looking at him at the trial and just sort of like, her eyes being, you know, locking with him as she. As she. He absolutely turns into ash. Did you think that when he was in the Fairly Comical sequence when he's running out into the sun to scream into the microphone to get that scream just right. Did you think that, like, he was thinking about. I mean, it's really funny when he, like, shows up increasingly, like, burned and blistered. But, like, did you think that he was thinking about Claudia at all? In. In that sort of, like.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

How can I capture the worst thing I've ever heard?

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, I think they're all always thinking about each other. And, I mean, the thorn thing is so perfect because it's like the idea of being embedded, you know, someone else embedding themselves in your very essence so that there's, like, an inescapable quality to it. And then, you know, we'll talk about the scene separately in a few minutes. But the way that the ghostly specter of Claudia snipped Achilles and all, Louis is there for closure and an absolution and to find, to hopefully see that she has, he says, quiet, like a sense of peace. That is not what happens at all. And the idea that it connected very powerfully and poignantly with what we've talked about all season, like who actually has the definitive account and record of what transpired. And you know, Claudia, just like each of them has an agenda. So is the thing that Claudia is saying, which in some respects kind of of absolves Lestat of the blame both private and public, is how true is what she's saying or is it directed to. Is it intended to just wound and hurt?

[Joanna Robinson]

How true is anything of what she says is. Is. Is a question. But her anger is real. Her emotion is real. Dick Salt Working title. Brutal. Love this song.

[Mallory Rubin]

Incredible.

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[Mallory Rubin]

Sorry, I think there's been a mistake. I bought it from Carvana.

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[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, great price. I even have seven days to love it or return it.

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[Mallory Rubin]

No, no Buyer's remorse. More like buyers rejoice.

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[Mallory Rubin]

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[Joanna Robinson]

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[Joanna Robinson]

We already talked about this. I don't need to get into it. But I do want to go back to this, like, lyric about a distant thread and a restless hand, you know, and I sort of, like, you know, constantly sort of pulling on this thread. So, like, I feel like it's invoking the red string of fate, that concept and umbilical cord, because the song is definitely also about Gabriella and then that silver cord that connects all vampires to the source. And I just. I love that this song is about Gabriella and Louis, but sung only to Louis. I love that. We've already mentioned that.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. It was so good.

[Joanna Robinson]

I love all the possibilities of what this idea of the thread can mean, but how that thread, that before sunset thread connects to. Most of your songs are about me.

[Ad Host 2]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

You bought a restaurant three blocks from my house.

[Mallory Rubin]

You know, like, proximity of the restaurant was so good.

[Joanna Robinson]

Let's talk about, you know, and we get. We watch them walk from his apartment to the restaurant, you know, and so those are like, you know, a little Taylor Swift of it all, but, like, invisible string, this, like, this thing that connects them and the way that they're constantly tugging on it while having plausible. You know, while Lestat says the songs aren't about him, and he's like, the songs are about him.

[Mallory Rubin]

They're about him.

[Joanna Robinson]

I just, you know, I just like real estate. Yeah, sure, sure.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right around the corner from your house.

[Mallory Rubin]

Revpar. Was that the. Yeah, yeah. Fraudian. Madeline. Oh, just tell you about Revpar. I loved the. You know, I mentioned earlier, the trying to parse the look on Sofia's face as she is looking at Louis throughout this soundcheck rehearsal stretch and then especially during Brutal Love.

[Joanna Robinson]

And

[Mallory Rubin]

speaking of threads and ties that connect, it felt to me like this was their version of. Is that what makes you fascinating? Right. Looking at him through that, Daniel. Is that what makes you fascinating?

[Joanna Robinson]

Like, who is this New Orleans boy and why.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, it was just great. And I don't know, there was something.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's such a. I have to imagine they did several takes of that moment where she, like, turns and looks at him. The camera isn't focused on him, it's focused on her. And the one they picked is such a slow. It's a very slow turn. And I feel like we all know we're watching it, and we're like, what she's processing and what she's thinking. But they picked a fascinating take there. That makes sense.

[Mallory Rubin]

Is that what makes the take fascinating? Yeah, it's so good. And it just felt. Even though I think we both agree that the lyrics could apply to either of them. And at some points, maybe he would have chosen to direct his serenade toward his mother instead of Louis. It felt to me like more intimate than watching them fuck.

[Joanna Robinson]

I agree.

[Mallory Rubin]

You know, and especially because we then get an actual. Louis is watching Gabriella and Lestat fuck, and he's just like, this is gross and weird and this is sickness. And maybe the source of all your sickness, the tonal distinction of Gabriella processing. And some of it is the jealousy of the narcissist, but some of it is really feeling on the outside of a relationship that has been defined by an unholy level of closeness and proximity. And I think it's.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think it's narcissistic, but I also think it's, like, logistical in terms of, like, her agenda, which is that this concert go off without a hitch. And knowing that Louis doesn't want the concert to happen. And she's like, maybe you shouldn't go, for your own protection. I don't know.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's in the cities of, like. Like, where he's had some sort of confrontation with an enemy.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Not subtle.

[Joanna Robinson]

Not great. But, you know, so. So worried about her, you know, if Lestat is her little puppet.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Like, who is this other guy who can pull the strings on him, you know? And. Right. And I. Speaking of strings, I love the moment where Lestat is, like. Has this bratty response to the string section. Right. Like, you could be doing more. Right. And Louise, like, smiles fondly where he's just sort of like, yep, there he is. Lestat the brat. My guy. There he is. And then an interjection of the failures. Right. As the song concludes.

[Ad Host]

Right.

[Joanna Robinson]

As we have this. This conclusion of this song, which is just this, like, incredibly beautiful song. Ian of Salamander doesn't think so.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

And incredibly, like. I mean, this is a huge achievement, I would say. And their connection. And then it's like you're listening to the failures.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

This is a failure. What you're watching here, sad. All right, Dan. Dan gets a son. Dan.

[Mallory Rubin]

So good.

[Joanna Robinson]

You already mentioned this, but, like, how are you feeling about this Armand and Daniel connection? Armand being like, I've been here the whole time, you know, pulling the strings from the shadows of your life.

[Mallory Rubin]

I loved that because it was so. It was intended to be a. It was intended to be a declaration of proof.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Daniel's like, I call bullshit on this. Like, you're professing your love to me.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

And Armand says, let me go through the list of moments over the last half A century where I watched you and I knew how you were suffering. And I wanted to make sure you were okay. Your daughter rejected you. I led you to a chapel. The guy told you to leave. I got rid of him. So you could sit and cry.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. You.

[Mallory Rubin]

And maybe sexually assaulted one of your students.

[Joanna Robinson]

And I made sure he forgot.

[Mallory Rubin]

I made sure he forgot about it.

[Ad Host]

Whoa.

[Mallory Rubin]

Grim.

[Ad Host 2]

The.

[Mallory Rubin]

As is so often the case with Armand, and this is one of the delicious aspects of his character. There's a read on that that is so sinister.

[Joanna Robinson]

Well.

[Mallory Rubin]

And that you watch me from the shadows. Didn't tell you me you were there and tried to, like, puppet master my life. Right.

[Ad Host 2]

Well, the.

[Joanna Robinson]

The puppet mastering of Armand, like, that's.

[Mallory Rubin]

That's Armand.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's our. That's his MO.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

But like, I think what's interesting is that sort of similar to Lestat being like, I have the blood of Akasha in me, so I'm not responsible for things I'd done. Dan has given this sort of statement a couple times. It was sort of like, ever since you mind fucked me in the 1970s in San Francisco, listen to my failures. Here's all the things that I did that fucked up. And it's all because of you. Right? I had addiction problem because of you. My relationships didn't work out because of you. All this is because of you. Because of what you did to me. The Dan we met before Arman showed up was not on the straight and narrow. You know what I mean? He was not living his best life out there. And so, like, this. This has been his idea the whole time that Arman did this to him. And Armand's like, I wasn't just. I didn't just do that to you. Right. I covered up your sexual assault as well.

[Mallory Rubin]

You're welcome. My gosh. Really? My God. Really?

[Joanna Robinson]

Grim, Anything else you want to say about Dan and Armand? I will say I love in speaking of, like, lingering shots, the shot of. Of Armand's face at the close of episode five after Laria stepped in front of the subway. He's just so beautiful. So doll like, he's just so gorgeous. And he's done this horrifying thing.

[Mallory Rubin]

The calm, the stillness.

[Joanna Robinson]

So still. The. What I thought was interesting is they use this, like, blurring effect on Akasha's mouth when she's talking that I thought was, like, very cool. You know, just like, heightens the surreality. Surreality of what you're watching. And they mentioned that they wanted to match the fact that, like, when Armand, who is like, a More powerful vampire than the other vampires we've met is really in his powers. His eyes vibrate. And so they're like. We wanted to do something for Akasha where it's just sort of like, this is even. You know, this is even more. And what more might we do with Akasha, who is, you know, the first. I love it sort of thing. All right. Anything else you want to say?

[Mallory Rubin]

Just as always, I want to just take 10 seconds to appreciate the Daniel Malloy comedy, please.

[Joanna Robinson]

Because give us the greatest hits.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's your boy, Daniel Malloy. Very, very funny. Like, very, very, very funny. But at dinner. I know we were going to talk about this later. The cosmic. How did they make a Travis and Taylor joke the week of the wedding?

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, I know.

[Mallory Rubin]

Really good. Incredible. That's like cosmic fortune there. Or maybe just very careful planning. I don't know. Well, I don't know.

[Joanna Robinson]

I feel like it's kind of lucky. Like, Travis and Taylor, when you're gonna set the date is something they could have written, like, at any point.

[Mallory Rubin]

Then it just so happened to be incredibly relevant. Great stuff shared on Sheridan Blackwood. Dumb name. So funny. He just has to get. Still fanging Sophia. Incredible.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yes.

[Mallory Rubin]

And of course, on the precipice, on the brink of releasing the interview with the vampire Lestat.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Ready to eat your own. I mean, ready to eat your own. As he is about to reveal the

[Joanna Robinson]

inside his face when he says that

[Mallory Rubin]

I have no notes. Ready to eat your own is iconic.

[Joanna Robinson]

Really good.

[Mallory Rubin]

Wait until Daniel Malloy learns about Daemon Targaryen's dreams.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's your boy Daniel Malloy. All right. Exorcising demons. So this is a double. So we already talked about this. About, like, Lestat and Louis have it out on the street, and this is like a horrifying moment for Lestat. And the denial, the panic, the blood vomiting.

[Ad Host 2]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

This isn't his most intensely guarded shame. Like, there is intensive shame here for him. And we love journalists. You know, we had a sunshine problem here. Here we go. Here's some sunshine on this information. It's out here. And now Louis knows. And now Louis knows more about Lestat than he ever knew before. Yeah. And they already knew each other quite well.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

And he knows even more here. And then they go through this experience with Claudia where they are confronted with, you know, some fictions that she told about Lestat, but also just sort of like having to confront her anger, what they together did to her.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

And so I just. I. And then, you know, we wind. We wind up on the bench and they lose their heads. But just bringing all of this nastiness up and out into the sunshine, not to like, vampires can't do that, but Dan can. Dan the Dan can. But like bringing that all up and then just sort of like. And then being connected even more afterwards. I love it.

[Mallory Rubin]

So good.

[Joanna Robinson]

I loved it.

[Mallory Rubin]

The initial response, let me put it this way. Are you hitting the same vagina you spent the first nine months of your mortal life in? And Lestat, who very quickly will not even be able to form a coherent sentence and is vomiting blood everywhere because he's so mortified that this has come to light, even though he will then say, I guess I wanted it to. The fact that he just for another second there has the wherewithal and composure to be like, well, anatomically, there's the womb. The show is just. God, dear, this is so, so, so, so good.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, man. I just love. They're fighting. Lestat will not let Louis walk away from this. Louis, like, I was really worried that Louis was just going to walk away and this is just going to be like they wouldn't talk to each other again for another season of television or something like that.

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, you mentioned the shame. The shame that wasat, I think with apologies, it's fair to say, should feel

[Joanna Robinson]

you have to apologize. We can be anti incest on this podcast.

[Mallory Rubin]

Can we? We cover it so routinely. I don't know. Louis. Shame is also brought to the fore here when Lestat is like, there's the kind of comedy of, you're being very judgy in the face of the just like litany of this is a really gross thing you've done. But Lestat's like, you're paying the girl to pretend to be Claudia. You're paying a girl to pretend to be Madeline. Do I say you're sick?

[Joanna Robinson]

No, I come and support you. Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

And so for Louis to have to confront his failing, which is different from fucking your mother, but is still a failing, it's different. It's different.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's different for vampires.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's different. I really loved that, that the way Lestat, you know, got Louis to basically just take a beat and think about what room there would be to still accept this person who has done a thing that is not acceptable is to remind him that he has been present for Louis when Louis has done things that in different ways and to different extents are also, like, not acceptable.

[Joanna Robinson]

This line that comes later, actually, when they're on the bench, clearly somewhere in the self destructive scaffolding I house my heart in I wanted it known.

[Mallory Rubin]

That was great.

[Joanna Robinson]

Bars. Okay.

[Mallory Rubin]

That was great.

[Joanna Robinson]

Merrick Mayfair, played by Sarah Affle.

[Mallory Rubin]

This performance was amazing, Fantastic.

[Joanna Robinson]

There's been some question. This is, there is the Mayfair Witches show. This is not a character that has shown up on the Mayfair Witches show. So this is not like, this is a new, I mean, this is a book character, but not one that we've, you, it's not like you have to have seen the Mayfair Witches to have the context for her.

[Mallory Rubin]

That's what I was wondering if I was missing an element by not having

[Joanna Robinson]

seen that she's both a witch and a Talamasqua agent. And now in need of some cosmetic dentistry. Here's what happens. So the novel Merrick, Merriwick Merrick, written in 2000. Claudia's haunting Louis. And he has this. And he is just at his wit's end of what to do. He is in deep despair. He does not pay a waitress to pretend to be Claudia, but he does go to this witch once.

[Mallory Rubin]

Hundreds of texts. That was like, wow, that was really tough.

[Joanna Robinson]

Cause like, Louis has been like, I'm like, he's being relatively cool about this. No, Hundreds of texts a day, really tough. So rough tough look for our guy. He does ask this witch to, you know, bring about the spirit of Claudia. And it's very, it's done very differently in the novel. And I'm, I'm, I'm interested in this adaptive change. So in the novel. And again, Claudia is described as looking like, you know, Kirsten Dunst looks like in the movie. Just this like little angelic doll looking girl. And when she shows up as the spirit, it's all like whispers and quiets and, but it is menacing as fuck. And it's just sort of like. And her whole agenda in that sequence is to try to get Louis to kill him himself. She's like, come join me, Father. She's like, oh, you think I'm happy? I'm not. Do it. Come here. Come join me. You know, what have you done to deserve to live? All this, like, coaxing him, trying to coax him into killing himself. But this is something. She says, I suffer, Father. But she's whispering and she's gentle and she's girlish. And she says, I suffer, Father. I suffer. And I wander. I know nothing. And all, all I once knew seems illusory. I have nothing, Father. My senses are not even a memory. I have nothing here at all. At all. So I, I, I love the way that it's done in that book. But I loved the way it was done here. This pure rage and violence and anger and, like. And in the. In the book, she stabs. She becomes corporeal enough to grab something and stab him. She doesn't kill him, but she, like, stabs him with his object. And the witch cannot, like, control her stuff like that. And so, like, when Claudia starts, like, sort of knocking papers around and stuff like that, like, I thought that part was really cool. But just like. And she's out of the circle and she's off the leash, and it's just sort of, like, so scary again, like, similar to Akasha. It's like. It's pitiful. You're upset when she's talking about how she can't find Madeline anywhere.

[Mallory Rubin]

So sad.

[Joanna Robinson]

And she's all alone and she can't find her, like, horrifying when she talks about everything that's done to her. So you feel, like, so much, like, empathy for her and pity for her, and then you're also terrified of her at the same time.

[Mallory Rubin]

I thought it was the initial Merrick when she's trying to summon and channel. And it does not work initially. There's the first, like, what have you two been up to tonight? I need you to move your chairs further apart. You're blocking the gate about them, which was very good.

[Joanna Robinson]

But then the.

[Mallory Rubin]

She's got rage about Claudia before channeling her in full. That's so interesting, what you just shared about trying to coax Louis in the novel. Because I like now thinking about having not known that. The way that. That is slightly, slightly warped here, where Louis is the one who's like, I thought you were calling to me. Like, I thought you wanted me to join you. And she's like, if I did, I would have tripped Armand down the stairs. I don't want you anywhere near me. I hate you.

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, I don't. She's not saying, like, come join me so we could be together happily ever after.

[Mallory Rubin]

She just wants her to die.

[Joanna Robinson]

She just wants him to die.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, well, and then that's interesting, too, especially. Again, we talked about this already. We don't really think they're dead at the end. Their heads are probably gonna plop right back on their beautiful shoulders. But what this Claudia stretch gives us is a sense of like. Like you are. There is no release from your turmoil. Death is not. Death does not bring for these characters in this supernatural state.

[Joanna Robinson]

You won't be together. The two of you won't be together, or we won't be together. Cause I can't Fucking find Madeline. So we're damned after it all ends too.

[Mallory Rubin]

You know, I also really liked making the audience a little bit complicit for our tendency to side with Louis and Lestat in all matters. Like, I was thinking back to our conversation about Louis very disturbing vengeance quest with Bruce. And I remember saying on the pod, like, boy. And watching Louis, he doesn't even have to look at the pages on the diary. He can recite it from memory. And then Claudia's like, that make you feel good? Did it make you feel good to pretend those words were yours? Yeah. And I was like, damn. It was just so effective as a way to simultaneously bring you further into the closeness of these characters and their history with each other and their inner turmoil and intentionally keep you on your back foot of like, don't assume you know why these people are behaving this way.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right? Also, so this moment in season one when Claudia tells Louis that Lestat threatened to rape her on the train was like a thing that book readers were really like, whoa. Like, whoa, look, Lestat would never do that. And so this question of, like, was Claudia even telling the truth? So in this scene, she's like, oh, did you like that little performance I put on for you, Louis, where I said, lestat did this? Oh, you know, so scared. And so again, it puts us constantly. It's not just like we're watching Louis tell this story or watching Lestat tell the story. It's like inside the story, people are unreliable narrators. Inside of the unreliable narrators.

[Mallory Rubin]

You know, I love that. And especially because they both invoke the idea of, you know, Louis is like. He's surprised when they're walking after the scene. He expresses to theatre that he is surprised by the thing he said of like, what about the thing you should be thanking me for, Bruce? And he's like, man, I gotta. I have some work to do on myself. Which Lestat will then on the park bench bring up. I've got some work to do on myself. And it. It to think about that. We watch Louis at the table with Fraudia and Madeline. And the look on his face of disgust confronting that. That's what they think he wants to see. Like, when they start kissing at the

[Joanna Robinson]

end, do you think he was upset because of that or because of how bad her wig was?

[Mallory Rubin]

Why not both? The old. Why not both?

[Joanna Robinson]

Madeline's wig, bad wig and accent. And I'm like, how different is this from the cabbages sequence?

[Mallory Rubin]

It's a great, really great question. And then, like, she broke character and he's like, whoa, that's not what we're here for. But then they're back in character and he's like, is this what we're here for? I can't tell the difference anymore. She voices still a stot. Very sad.

[Joanna Robinson]

The boat sequence, when he, like, freezes

[Mallory Rubin]

her and his hand is quivering, like, confronting what. Not only what he is capable of, but why he is doing these things and what he thinks he is gaining from them. Something that gave me a chill, they

[Joanna Robinson]

said in the official podcast, I think was really interesting, is that originally those scenes. Scenes were flipped. That, like, the boat scene came first and then the Fraudia and Madeline dinner. Because, like, the Meline Fria dinner was written to be like. He's like, I've gone too far. I'm repulsed by myself. They were like, well, when we watched those two back, the more disturbing one was the boat one. So we flipped when they came. And I, like, really agree.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. All right.

[Joanna Robinson]

Back on the bench.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Season one, nostalgia. Love it. Love a. Love these two on a bench.

[Mallory Rubin]

Wonderful.

[Joanna Robinson]

We already talked about this plenty. I do want to shout out, because I have to. It is in. It is in me and is I must. When they're talking about their sort of, like, Southwest dreams or of Nevada's Southwest. Ish.

[Mallory Rubin]

Right? You know, I think so.

[Joanna Robinson]

Ish.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Enough.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, I think so.

[Joanna Robinson]

It reminded me of, like, in the musical Rent this dream of, like, open up a restaurant in Santa Fe. Escape everything in New York, you know, save from devastation, our brains. We'll go to Santa Fe. It'll be simple. Or if you prefer in the musical Newsies, when Grisha Bale sings about going to Santa Fe, like, this idea of, like, the Southwest dream of, like, we'll leave all of this horribleness.

[Mallory Rubin]

Sounds wonderful.

[Joanna Robinson]

Should we go?

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. I've never been. We can go to some George R.R. martin stuff and we can have the. Isn't that where they have the chili peppers? The green chili peppers on all the burgers. Isn't that a thing there?

[Joanna Robinson]

Possibly.

[Mallory Rubin]

I'm ready.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay.

[Mallory Rubin]

It has to be a regional flight out of Burbank, I think ideal.

[Joanna Robinson]

When he says what blooms at night.

[Mallory Rubin]

Did.

[Joanna Robinson]

Do you have any. Did you have any botanical thoughts? I went immediately to night. Blooming jasmine. As you know, I care a lot about jasmine as a climbing vine.

[Mallory Rubin]

You do. I do know this about you. I am not much of a gardener, though I do love nature to observe it. So I had nothing popped to mind. Other. Yeah. Pigeon nature. No, I thought. It made me think of Just like nightshade and stuff like that.

[Joanna Robinson]

But no, it also made me think of. I've talked to you about the Bury My Bones in the Midnight Soil, the E. Schwab book. She has talked about how she wants to sort of start a universe of. Of a kind. And she's calling it the garden. And it's just sort of like there are vampires in the garden, but like, what else? What other creatures are in the garden? Just sort of like, what else? And you know, I was just thinking about that. I was trying to look to see if like Anne Rice had ever talked about her universe as a garden or like vampires as like night. But also what's interesting is if you Google vampires and night blooming flowers. Yeah, there's a ton of cool creepy ass flowers that are like named after vampires.

[Mallory Rubin]

Incredible.

[Joanna Robinson]

There's like a vampire orchid. No, but like, they just like, look, they're amazing and they're scary and I love them. That's all I just want to say about that. How do you feel about the heart stopper esque finger brush that we get?

[Mallory Rubin]

Great. I like the little pinkies with their,

[Joanna Robinson]

with their little press on nails. All right, anything else you want to talk about before we get into like. Like, I thought we'd do a roundup of fun and funny things. We've already hit plenty of these. But like, if there's any leftover that we haven't hit, I want to shout out.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

In this roundup of fun and funny things, I want to shout out. I just think the phrase the vampire tough cookie.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Was really fun to hear.

[Mallory Rubin]

Incredible.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think her in the previous episode saying, I don't play metaphorical drums. And then I think Yoko Mirin, which is what she calls cabriela, is one of the funniest things I've ever seen

[Mallory Rubin]

and absolutely killed me. That was so funny. I quite liked all the commentary on the, like, luxury coffin. The Heston you should be thanking me for. Also, by the way, Lestat not keeping his cell phone in his coffin just seems very impractical to me.

[Joanna Robinson]

I. Maybe it's like me and he's like, he's bricking his phone. Yeah, maybe. So he doesn't scroll in the coffin.

[Mallory Rubin]

Maybe, maybe. But then as soon as it vibrates, he opens it, potentially risking exposing himself to sunlight.

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't know.

[Mallory Rubin]

Not ideal. Did you like the Daniel had his man on the street stretch? First of all, we got I'm a yard a file iconic. But were you getting BB report?

[Joanna Robinson]

Unfortunately. You wanted to talk about Lestat's passport.

[Mallory Rubin]

I just, I don't know. It's so fucking hard to take a good passport photo. It's impossible.

[Joanna Robinson]

Also, don't you have to show your ears now when you take your passport photo?

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, I don't know. I have. I'm, I'm due to. To refresh mine, actually. So I, I.

[Joanna Robinson]

My memory is that you have to, like, tuck your hair behind your ears.

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, his was curly and luxurious as always. And he looked incredible. And he was serving face in a passport photo, which is basically impossible to do. So. Shout out Lestat, you're really hot.

[Joanna Robinson]

Canonically five nine, five nine le.

[Mallory Rubin]

I mean, that is. That's nuts.

[Joanna Robinson]

Probably can't be true. I support five, nine guys out there, but I don't think that's true.

[Mallory Rubin]

It looks like he's like 6:3.

[Joanna Robinson]

I really love this quote. I spent half of two decades in the silken embrace of a chestnut casket purchased for my French Quarter townhome for was hurled off a balcony during one of Mr. Dulac's redirected moods. And we get the cut of, like, the redirected moods is just like an incredible phrase. So good I'm gonna start using that. I don't know when or how. Taylor, Travis. We talked about the stick. Lestat's spirit Halloween Grim Reaper costume. Incredible, Outstanding. And his enduring commitment to Halloween candy that he puts out the bowl and the sign, the please take one sign.

[Mallory Rubin]

So good. Really good. When he first lifted the hood, I was like, oh, my God, our guy is doing a female murder cloak. You know, I kind of felt that

[Joanna Robinson]

way about his murder hoodie.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, murder hoodie for sure.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

But then he's like, no, I'm going to be the Grim Reaper for Halloween, basically, was just incredible, as was the round of applause in Lou's Vamp Den restaurant when he took it off and

[Joanna Robinson]

revealed himself or him singing out the side of the. Of the car.

[Mallory Rubin]

That was great.

[Joanna Robinson]

I love. To the adoring vamp public.

[Mallory Rubin]

That was wonderful. I was quite interested in the blood chalice, the delicate, flowery blood. Like decanting it into the little smaller goblets. That was fascinating.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, yeah, yeah. That whole device. Because we saw the decanting in season one, but not the sort of. Yeah. Then it's spread out into smaller things. Or maybe that was season two. The Grim Reaper thing, I think, is also a throwback to when Lestat and Armand are at the theater.

[Mallory Rubin]

Right.

[Joanna Robinson]

And Armand's like, you would be a better Grim reaper. And Lestat says, the scythe does a lot of work I love that. He's like, I got myself a plastic scythe.

[Mallory Rubin]

I know what I want to be this Halloween. Also after he put on the costume and they're walking to the very approximate restaurant, as noted. Looked lovely.

[Joanna Robinson]

Let's go to Montreal.

[Mallory Rubin]

I would love to go to Montreal. I've never been to Canada. Vancouver, number one on my list. But I would love to do Montreal. And Toronto. I went to Syracuse, so I was like two hours from Toronto and somehow never went in. Four years. Disaster. Calamity. When Lem calls and obviously he's the one who texts. Did you see this later? Classic. But when he calls and Louis talking, well, sat's like, you know, me too. Like, what, love, Miss. But the before that.

[Joanna Robinson]

Lem, Lem, Lem.

[Mallory Rubin]

Ooh, lick me. Lem was just hysterical. Hysterical.

[Joanna Robinson]

Speaking of talking over people, was Nikki shouting page numbers from Daniel's book when Lestat was in?

[Mallory Rubin]

I could not possibly tell you.

[Joanna Robinson]

He was shouting numbers. And I was like, what was happening? I think that's all the ones that I had.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, last one. And this is. I actually thought this was the. This is maybe the. The line I liked the best, though it's such a crowded field. They've gotten into the limo after the dinner slash interview. You know, I owed him an ending with Daniel.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

And Libby's like, something seemed off. And Lestat replies always. He's an awkward vamp. He has that you think you're better than me chip on him. And we are. It's exhausting to pretend otherwise.

[Joanna Robinson]

That kills me. So good. So good.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's exhausting to pretend otherwise was just absolutely incredible. I loved it.

[Joanna Robinson]

All right, well, that is five and six.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

We're gonna.

[Mallory Rubin]

One left.

[Joanna Robinson]

I know.

[Mallory Rubin]

How long will it be between seasons?

[Joanna Robinson]

I would say at least a year and a half. Like, probably less time because they don't have to write an entire musical. Which I think took a lot of time, but probably like a year and a half at least would be my guess. But we'll see.

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, you know what? That's a year and a half for everyone who's not watching to catch up.

[Joanna Robinson]

Catch up.

[Mallory Rubin]

That's how I'm spinning it.

[Joanna Robinson]

We're going to close out with some book spoilers.

[Mallory Rubin]

Such a menacing laugh.

[Joanna Robinson]

I know.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's so good.

[Joanna Robinson]

Good job, Carlos. All right. 50,000 of us out in the woods together. What could go wrong?

[Mallory Rubin]

I'm going to assume quite a bit.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. I don't need to get into details. It's not going to go well. And Akasha's showing up in the finale. So that's exciting. I can't wait. I'm really thrilled. So, you know, Sheila said that she only filmed, like, a couple, you know, so it's just like this scene in episode five. And then I have to imagine she's like, just in the closing scene of the finale is what would be my guess. But I'm just excited to see her, like, out and about, not in non statue form at all.

[Mallory Rubin]

Theoretically, if we're doing Queen of the Damned and Body Thief as substantial subsequent seasons like, will Lestat and Louis be prominently in both of them?

[Joanna Robinson]

Lestat, certainly. And then they're doing all this stuff to get Louis, like, still in the mix, this sort of thing. And that's kind of. That's what Dan McDermott from AMC said is he's like, we're figuring out a way to have Armand, Daniel, Louis and Lestat sort of like, in the mix for all of these. So, like, how can we sort of contort the story to make sure that these characters that everyone's attached to are prominent, like Claudia bringing in the marriage book into this season so that Claudia can be here? I should say Louis does briefly kill himself after the Claudia seance scene in Merrick, and then he's resurrected.

[Mallory Rubin]

Okay, so the chop, the chopped head is standing in for that.

[Joanna Robinson]

I'm wondering if that's true, if that's the case. Like, do we need to see a Louis so despondent he kills himself? I don't know how he could get more despondent than, like, paying than he was in the car outside of. Of the restaurant. You know what I mean? So I feel like that's happened, but I don't know.

[Mallory Rubin]

Okay.

[Joanna Robinson]

This is the big one, though, okay? In the Lestat voiceover in episode five, he says, I amell. And then he says after, he says, I have slumbered in a variety of sarcophagi over the centuries. This is after he says a thing about the coffin in New Orleans, before he calls a studio basically a coffin. I've slumbered in a variety of sarcophagi over the centuries. He says, I aml so spoilers. The core of Akasha, the core of all vampires, goes inside of Lestat, and he is possessed by Amell the first. And so exciting. By the time he records the failures, this has already happened, which is like a very different timeline, but that, like, he has the original demon inside of him. As he's like, he says, I amell like, that's what he says, right? So, like, it is Lestat Talking. But is Lestat with Amel inside of him? Which is a wild thing to. To hear and know, you know, goes over the heads of. Of people who don't know who the Amel is. And you know, they're like, Stephen Amel. What.

[Mallory Rubin]

What are we doing?

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't know.

[Mallory Rubin]

Has that after the Arrowverse. But he saved this city.

[Joanna Robinson]

This is a huge deal. And it's another like time marker for book readers. So like, no, Lestat getting his head chopped off is not how he is going to die. And so we sort of know a bit more about when the failures is recorded, I guess.

[Mallory Rubin]

Okay, exciting. Maybe I'll, before season four, try to read all these books.

[Joanna Robinson]

I believe in you, but we've got

[Mallory Rubin]

a lot going on. A year and a half.

[Joanna Robinson]

You love Lore.

[Mallory Rubin]

I'm not going to commit to anything.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, you love Lore.

[Mallory Rubin]

Maybe I'll give it a go. Am I going to be scared?

[Joanna Robinson]

No.

[Mallory Rubin]

Are they very scary? No.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay.

[Mallory Rubin]

Will you hold me in your arms if I am scared?

[Joanna Robinson]

Let's. Let's curl up together and read them.

[Mallory Rubin]

Play an audiobook.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay.

[Mallory Rubin]

Wonderful.

[Joanna Robinson]

Divine. That's all I have. We did it.

[Mallory Rubin]

Just a delight.

[Joanna Robinson]

Episode 7 We'll be back. Thanks to our coven, the tree connected to all of us, which is Jacob Cornette, Carlos Chirbogo, Scott Lee, Arjuna Rangapal, and Jomi Dinaron, our keepers. We'll be back. Talk the Thrones, theoretically is what comes after this.

[Mallory Rubin]

That's right. I love out of Order. I have no idea what is time.

[Joanna Robinson]

Talk the Thrones. That's right. And then the Deep dive.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

And then Oppenheimer. And then the Odyssey.

[Mallory Rubin]

Odie. Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

And then more talk to the Thrones. Then more listat and we do it all over again.

[Mallory Rubin]

Wow. Yeah, that's right.

[Joanna Robinson]

And then Comic Con. All right, we'll see you soon. Bye.

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[Mallory Rubin]

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[Joanna Robinson]

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[Ad Host]

So I thought it would be fun

[Joanna Robinson]

if we made $15 bills, but it

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turns out that's very illegal. So there goes my big idea for the commercial.

[Joanna Robinson]

Give it a try at mintmobile.

[Mallory Rubin]

Com Switch upfront payment of $45 for three months, $90 for six months or $180 for 12 month plan required $15 per month equivalent taxes and fees Extra initial plan term only greater than 50 gigabytes. Me slow when network is busy. C terms.