Co-host/Interviewer (2:34)

Let's talk about them for a second too, because he runs tough. That's a tough kid.

Matt Rhule (2:40)

He's third in the Big Ten right now in rushing. He's 17th in the country in all purpose yards. And here's what I love about him. It's never about him. He cares about his teammates, he cares about the team, he cares about winning. You know, you have guys like that, guys who can make plays and they're unselfish. Now, trust me, he's confident. I'm not saying, I'm not saying he doesn't want. He wants to make plays, but he's unselfish. Man, I love, I love coaching guys like that.

Co-host/Interviewer (3:04)

So how bad was the win, man? I mean, on television it looked crazy.

Matt Rhule (3:11)

You know what, when we scored that touchdown to make it 21, 21, and we kicked the ball off and it got hung up in the air and they couldn't catch it when you can't even catch the kickoff because it's that windy. And I mean this with the greatest respect to them. I'm just saying that's how much the conditions affected the game. And so that's, that's part of being here in the Midwest. That's like when people talk to me about, oh, here football, there, football, I'm like, come out here and play. One time In October, it's 90 degrees and winds guessing 40, 45 miles an hour. Come out here and play and then tell me, tell me about how, what your place is like.

Co-host/Interviewer (3:44)

You know, I love Dylan, right? And Dylan, Dylan froze. Cut the winds. The kids got stones, man. That's why, that's why I love him, man. He's. He's so talented, but he's such a gritty kid. Like, he's got. I, I love the way he plays in position. I love quarterbacks and I just love the way the kid goes at it.

Matt Rhule (4:06)

Yes. So many of those guys are so talented that, like, when things don't go well, that they don't know how to respond because they're so used to everything going well. It's one of the reasons why I think quarterbacks who play in this type of weather like they're prepared for the next level because, man, you, you get drafted in Green Bay, you better be able to cut the ball through the wind and deal with the elements. And so. But what I love about Dylan is, is his grittiness of, you know what, like he throws a pick, you know, he comes off the field, he goes right back out there and he is mad. And you know what? He takes us down and answers, answers a score with a score. So he's not just talented, he also has the right stuff, the right makeup, and he's got the right guys around him. When you have a guy like Jacore Barney, you know, Isaiah Hunter, we, we throw a screen out there to Nyseh, they take his shoe off and he runs 60 yards with nothing but a sock. I mean, that's my kind of guy, man, that's great. That's tough.

Co-host/Interviewer (4:53)

The sock is Keith, man.

Matt Rhule (4:56)

Exactly right.

Co-host/Interviewer (4:58)

All right, let's go around college football a little bit. Interesting development that never happened before. So Penn State and Texas are both out of the top 25. It's the first time in history that 1 and 2 are not in the top 25 during the course of the season. Pretty wild.

Matt Rhule (5:20)

Yeah, it is. You know, I think the first thing you say to yourself is, you know, how valid then is the preseason top 25. If we can't even get that right, right, like, maybe we should just wait and watch everybody. It's a new era now, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's not the old days where a couple teams collect all the good players and you got seven five star quarterbacks all waiting their turn. Like that kid that used to go and sit in line somewhere else. Now he's saying, I'm gonna go there and start and they can pay me some good money and I'll, I'll go be the player. So college football has changed and I think the best thing we can all do is just wait and see how the year plays out. Like, I'll give you an example with us. I told everybody, hey, Cincinnati is a good team. Ah, beat him 20 to 17. I mean, they just, they just beat, they just beat a ranked Iowa State team. They're a really good team. You don't really know what the teams are like until the season gets playing now in defense for Texas and in defense for Penn State. They also both lost to a top five team. You know, Texas lost to Ohio State, Penn State lost to Oregon. So like, let's not just start, you know, overreacting. Those are two Good teams, they'll probably go on runs and, you know, they finish 10 and 2, they'll be back in the top 10, they'll have a chance. But it's a new day in college football every single week. You don't know which teams are going to show up because there's. The talent has been spread out now as opposed to just, hey, here's six or seven teams and they're the only ones who have good players.

Co-host/Interviewer (6:35)

It's such a great point. It is, because I think you're right. I think it's all about the dispersion of talent.

Matt Rhule (6:42)

Well, think about, think about like Penn State going to UCLA and losing to ucla, you know, a, they had to travel across the country. You got to deal with the time chain, all those different things. But just think about ucla. You know, you got Nico, Aya Maleva, right? And he's at Tennessee in the summer. In the spring, he goes to UCLA in the summer. Now he's got to learn the offense now he's got to get comfortable. He plays a couple ball games. All of a sudden now, he wasn't on. They weren't prepared for him six months ago. All of a sudden now, you know, because of the portal, because of the mobility he leaves in the summer. It gets there. Things don't go well early for them as a team to make some changes. Bro, he's on game five. He's just getting warmed up. He now knows the offense, he knows the guys around them, and all of a sudden he's comfortable. He plays a great game. And so because we want to have content to overdo it ahead of time, none of us know. None of us know who's going to be a good team and who's not going to be a good team. Just same in the NFL. How many teams are non playoff teams one year and they come back the next year and they are a playoff team and vice versa. The players change. And so college football is becoming more like the NFL now because of the. The portal, because of free agency. And we all should just sit there and wait it out instead of guessing who we think is going to be good.

Co-host/Interviewer (7:50)

You're right. It's impossible to see how it's all going to come together. And just like the NFL, what you see in September doesn't really mean what you're going to see in early November.

Matt Rhule (8:01)

At least the NFL, at least you're like going off the standings here. We're going off of a vote. How many people do you think that vote for the top 25 actually watch more than four or five games. And I'll tell you this, I can watch a TV copy. I got to actually watch the film to see like, you know what, you watch Ole Miss play, man, they can play. You watch Jordan, they can play. I watch these teams. I watch the, I watch the all 22. Some of the other teams are in the top 25. They're good, but they not at the level of those, like watch Oregon play, watch Ohio State play. And so it's just an emotional voting. And you know what, that's fine. It'll all play itself out. This is, this conversation is fun. It's content for us. But you know what? At the end of the year, we'll all look up all these teams that are in the top 10. They're gonna start playing each other. If I'm a Penn State fan or I'm a Texas fan, I would just bide my time, get better, win the next game, win the next game, go on a run. That's what we're trying to, hey, we lost to Michigan. We just said, hey, let's go win the next game. Just stack games and pretty soon either you're a 7 win team or a 10, 11 win team. And it all takes care of itself.

Co-host/Interviewer (9:00)

I mean, you think back to our era growing up as college football fans and it was a vote, like, how insane. It's insane to think about that it was a vote. It wasn't. It never took place on the field.

Matt Rhule (9:16)

I was a member of the 1994 Penn State football team that went undefeated, won the Rose Bowl 38, six over Oregon, then watched as, as, as Miami lost to Nebraska of all places, and Nebraska Nevaska, the national championship in Penn State. We didn't go after going undefeated and thinking, at least when the BCS came, everyone complained about, I was like, at least we would have played each other then. And it's just gotten better and better and better. And one of the things that's been out there in the media, I'm not giving away confidential stuff, has been like, man, you know, you have your conference championship game where one plays two. Well, what's, what's the point of that? Like you're going to the playoff anyway. It's been like, hey, well, the winner of that gets a buy, which can be a big deal. The other guy gets a home game. But what if, what if 3 played 6 and 4 played 5? Can you imagine sitting there one weekend and watching the SEC's six best team play their third place team and the fourth and fifth and then the two winners automatically get in and then, you know, the sixth and third place team of the Big Ten playing each other. Like that would be awesome. An amazing. Exactly. Right. That would be an awesome, amazing weekend of football. And the content that weekend will go through the roof. And I know people like, wow, is that fair? It's really cool when games matter. Right now everyone's saying like, oh, Penn State, season's over. No, it's not. No, it's not. No, it's not. But if you can get to six and try to play three and get hot, like that's what we love about the NCAA basketball tournament.

Co-host/Interviewer (10:34)

Exactly.

Matt Rhule (10:34)

So I'm not, yeah, I'm not, I'm not talking about automatic quality. No conferences get mad at me. I just think conferences having playing games to get in would, would make the regular season. Man, you're now all of a sudden you're sitting there saying, who gets home field advantage? Who gets to buy who, who's going to play their way in? All these games matter down the stretch. Right now at the playoff, everyone's like, oh, this team's done. Their season's over. Their kids should all, no play the game, finish a season out and who knows what could happen.

Co-host/Interviewer (10:59)

Football, you need to play together, right? Like you, you, especially now with free agency of the portal, you're not the same team in late at Labor Day that you are at Thanksgiving. Like, you're just not. And any of these losses that happens before, it doesn't mean who, like how good a team becomes, because in the end it's about who becomes the best team. That's how I always viewed it.

Matt Rhule (11:24)

And sometimes, sometimes you get, become a good team by losing a ball game. Everyone wrote off Alabama, yeah, Florida State, they're done. Well, look what they're doing. They're just like, man, just hanging in there. Beat Georgia, beat Vandy, just, just keep playing. Everyone wrote off Florida. Oh, they lost two games. What does Florida do? They come back, they upset Texas. So I'm with you, brother. It's like the teams are going to change as the year goes on. They're going to improve. Some teams aren't going to improve. You can have some key injury, like, let's just play it out. And I would just encourage all the, all the fans, all the coaches, all the players, like, just, just, just worry about the next game and try to go one and oh, that week, man, like, like, like, I'm just, I'm just thinking about our game Saturday. Do that long enough and good things happen.

Co-host/Interviewer (12:07)

All right. One of the themes is kind of what you had just talked about. But I want to get to the NFL piece of it because we saw like an epic kind of bizarre week in the NFL starts Thursday night where Matt Jones looked like he was back at Alabama. And their injury ravaged Niners beat the Rams in la and then yesterday the Broncos beat the Eagles. Unbe the Eagles are up 17. Three Broncos come back and win. The Titans are down big to Arizona. They come back and win the Bills at home on Sunday Night Football lose to New England and Drake. May you want to talk about any given Sunday. That's what we just witnessed this week.

Matt Rhule (12:54)

First of all, you're exactly right. And it, it's what makes the NFL and the parody that the, the NFL designs its league to build parody. Like if you have the, a great record one year, you have a harder schedule. If you finish here, you draft lower. If you have a bad year, you, it's designed for parody so that these games all matter. And in the NFL, like you look at the Rams, Niners games, it comes down to fourth and one and the decision overtime. Like I thought Coach McVeigh made the right call. Like, hey, I'm not going to, I'm not going to kick the field, go tie the game and give them three minutes to go down and score like he played to win. And you know what, the Niners made a play. You know, you go to the Titans game, you know Arizona, you know, they score a touchdown, they drop the ball before it goes across the goal line. So all of these, all of these close games or these upsets that come, come down to like a player here, a play there. And I tell you what, it's, it's, it's what makes the NFL so great is the parody is that the games are going to come down to the end. Full disclosure, I saw the game last night and I saw it right before the half. You know, I'm in here work and I got the game playing and I'm like, look at New England just kind of hanging around like right before the half. Like just hanging around, hanging around. That's what, that's what a variable type team is going to do. And then you just have to make a couple plays in the fourth quarter when everything's kind of, when everything's, when everything's on the way. And that's why let's go back to college for a second. When we all say like, well this team is better than this team because you're supposed to play it out on the field, that's why people love watching NFL football.

Co-host/Interviewer (14:17)

You talk about New England and you're going into Buffalo, Buffalo's super bowl favorite. How do you approach it? You've been on both sides, games where you're supposed to win, and then games where you had no business winning and you did what. What's the mentality going in, like, in that, in that situation?

Matt Rhule (14:36)

I think there's two parts to it. I think when you're the first of. When you're an underdog, you have nothing to lose. And, and, and you can go in as a coach and say, hey, we're about a bunch of trick plays and a bunch of stuff, but like, then even if you take the lead, it's like we're tricking them. One of the biggest wins of my coaching career was when I was at Temple. We beat Penn State first time in, you know, 74 years, 41 tries, and they got up 10 nothing. Oh, that's right. But they got up 10 nothing on us.

Co-host/Interviewer (15:02)

I remember.

Matt Rhule (15:02)

And, and we were playing. It's almost like our guys were like, we can play with these guys. It's a little different than college. And the pros. Pros are all pros. They get it right. But in college there was like the sense of like, wait, we can play with these guys. And then instead of like all of the. Well, it's. It's Penn State, you know, they're in the Big Ten. We're. We're in the American. It was like, forget the brand. Just play this man. Like, go, go, go. Whoop that man. And our guys, it just flipped. It almost was like being an underdog gave them so much confidence. On the flip side, the next year, we were 16 point favorites on the top 25 team. And we played army the first game, and army had won like one or two games a year before, and man, they came out and they were running that bone at you. And our guys, they were cutting us and they were playing like they were playing like their lives depended on. And our guys, we weren't ready for it. And I didn't have the team ready for it. And so I just think there's something to. Sometimes when you're not supposed to win and you play somebody and you play early on, you say, wait a minute, I kind of like to kind of like the Patriot. We just, let's just hang around here for, hey, we can play with these guys. Screw this. And then you go play and you play free. But the second thing I think is important, it happens in the NFL is when you get a big Lead. The team that has the big lead, they're playing to protect the lead. The team that does not have a big lead. Now the quarterback like, hey, the pressure's off. You don't have the coach in his headset like, all right, now, hey, if it's not there, check it down. They're like, hey, hey, go, go play. And I saw Tony Romo one time. I don't know Tony Romo, but I saw him and I was with some guys and he was talking about that, talking about how he loved being down because now the pressure was off, man. He was going to get to throw it 50 times. He was going to scramble around, make plays. He was going to play free, go to a little league game. What do all the parents do? They yell at kids. They say, come on, John, come on, come on. They're unfreeing the kids. Like, I watch my daughters play volleyball. Parents are out there like, do this. Kids are like, playing. All of a sudden, in between games, the kids go to another court and they're playing, just playing volleyball, playing free. And so I just think when sometimes when either you're the underdog and you're not supposed to win and you. And you realize you can play, or you get down and you say, screw, hey, let's just go play. You start to play free and it just becomes the game we all played when we were kids in the park.

Co-host/Interviewer (17:11)

Wow, that's deep, man. That's deep.

Matt Rhule (17:15)

I love psychology right there. That's some psychology right there.

Co-host/Interviewer (17:18)

I love that, man. That's deep. Let that seek it.

Matt Rhule (17:30)

You know, it seems like every day I get a text from someone asking where they can get the best deal in Huskers tickets. That's why I want to give the sponsor of today's video, SeatGeek, a big shout out. With over 35 million downloads, SeatGeek is the number one rated ticketing app. There are more than 70,000 events listed on SeatGeek, including concerts, sports, festivals and more. College football and the NFL are in full swing. MLB playoffs are here, and the NBA isn't too far behind. We're going to have Northwestern coming up. We're going to have USC coming up. In football. We're going to have Iowa on Black Friday. Make sure you get to SeatGeek and find your seats. SeatGeek is the official ticket marketplace of Nebraska athletics, and all Nebraska Tickets on SeatGeek are authentic and secure. I love using SeatGeek. Just the other day, I got my son and my wife and kids tickets to Eric Church when he comes Right here to Lincoln for his birthday. Mumford and Sons is coming to Chi. The one, the only, Ella Langley's coming. There's so much happening in this area, and you can get it all right here on SeatGeek. SeatGeek has your back. Each ticket is rated on a scale of 1 to 10. So you know you're getting a good deal. So look for the green dots. Green means good, red, red means bad. Plus, every ticket is backed by their buyer guarantee. And of course, we have a code for you guys. Use code Rule10 for 10% off your next set of tickets at SeatGeek. That's 10% off any tickets with promo code Rule10. Make sure you click the link in the description to download the app and have the code automatically added to your account so you can use it later. Thank you. Seatgeek. As a national columnist with USA Today from 2012 to just a few months ago, our next Guest has covered six Olympic Games, five Super Bowls, 12 college football championship games, and 16 Final Fours. His beat includes the NBA, the Olympics, horse racing, tennis, and, of course, college sports. Welcome to House Rules. Yahoo Sports senior writer Dan Wolkin. That's, like, tiring just to say all that. That's the first time I've ever had to use it. Everything's transparent here. It's the first time I've ever had to use a teleprompter. Just to make sure I did justice by everything that you accomplished, man. How are you?

Dan Wolken (19:38)

No, I appreciate it. Thanks for having me, Matt. It's great to be on the podcast, and thanks for inviting me. And, yeah, man, I just wake up every day feeling real fortunate that I get to do this for a living. It's crazy.

Matt Rhule (19:49)

Well, congratulations on the new gig. What's the transition been like going from going from USA Today to Yahoo. Yahoo? How's that been?

Dan Wolken (19:58)

Yeah, I mean, I guess it's a little bit like a football coach that changes jobs. You know, you just have to kind of like, learn the new people you're dealing with. You're kind of doing the same thing, but you just got to figure out the culture and how you fit in and all that stuff. And I think it's been really good. I mean, I got great colleagues. Ross Dellinger also covers college sports with me. I've known him a long time, so that's an easy fit to kind of work together and kind of figure out who's going where, who's doing what. But Yahoo Sports, great place, great fit for me.

Matt Rhule (20:26)

Kind of like you said, I kind of know about, you know, changing jobs and moving and going to new places. Sometimes when you do that as a coach, you know, you take some hits. People have a lot to say to do readers do, fans, do they. Do they take out some of your old takes when you make a move like that?

Dan Wolken (20:42)

100%. And, you know, that's the crazy thing about being in this business now. Everything lives on the Internet. You say something, you tweet something, it's going to be there forever. It's funny, like, every year on the day that the college football BCS championship game took place in 2013, I sent a tweet in the first half of the Florida State Auburn game. It was a great game. And if you remember, in that game, like, Auburn went up big early and I said something about, like, strength of schedule matters or it was something like that. And of course, Florida State comes back and wins the game. And Florida State fans, like, every year, they bring up that tweet on the day. Every day they celebrate it, they love it. And I get it, and I think it's hilarious. I still defend the tweet at the time because I think that's the reason why Florida State did not start well in that game is they just had not seen, you know, that kind of. Of SEC speed and athleticism all year long. And then they get to the championship game and like, boom, it hits them in the face. Credit to them. They played a great game all time, great team, all time, great championship game. But that's just like, one example of where, yeah, like, you just get hit with that all the time. But hey, you know, when you're in the opinion business, you're going to have opinions people don't like. You're going to have opinions that are wrong. You got to be able to be a big boy and take. Take the hits.

Matt Rhule (22:02)

You know, one of my favorite movies is Good Will Hunting. And, you know, if you've ever seen it, you know the scene where, like, he goes in the bar and he's talking to the young lady and the guy walks up and, you know, at one point the guy with the ponytail says, you know, well, that's all right. You'll be serving my kids fast food on a ski trip. And he says, yeah, at least I won't be unoriginal. And that's the one thing I found is, like, if you want to be original, if you want to have a take, if you want to have an opinion, A, people, people will then follow it, which is cool. But B, they're going to lash out at you like, there's. Sometimes I say things and it's just like I walk back in my office and they're like, oh, you're going viral. Oh, Matt. You know, but I'd rather that than just give coach speak all the time. Right? I mean, you have to have a take for people to want to read. You, want to listen to you.

Dan Wolken (22:44)

Absolutely. And you know what? At the end of the day, Matt, like, it's sports, right? We're not dealing with nuclear secrets here. It's, it's fun, it's entertain. We're, we're. You're in the entertainment business, you know, and I know that it's competitive and it means a lot to everybody involved, but at the end of the day, that's the business you're in. And when you're in the entertainment business, like, you just kind of got to deal with that stuff. And yeah, I'm fine with it. I am sometimes too provocative for my own good. I'll get out over my skis sometimes. Sometimes I'll make people mad. But hey, you know, I can take it.

Matt Rhule (23:19)

As journalism has evolved and changed, like, even, even the guys who cover our, guys who cover us here, you know, it's, it's no longer just writing an article, then they have to do a podcast about it, then they have to do some video content, then they have to tweet. Has it changed at all? For me from when you got started?

Dan Wolken (23:33)

I think everything's changed. I mean, I'm 45 years old now, so when I'm 21 getting in this business, you typically would start off at like a really small town newspaper on the high school beat, and you'd kind of learn how to do it and make mistakes and work your way up. But now what's happened? Because journalism's changed so much now we've gone to digital. You know, I worked for newspapers for a long time. Now I'm with Yahoo. And you know, we don't have a physical paper. It's all on the Internet. The whole career path is different. How you get into sports writing or sports commentating is different. A lot of people, you know, just kind of started doing it as a hobby in some ways. And then for whatever reason, people liked them, they got good, they got better, their platform built, and now they're big time in the media. That wasn't possible 20 something years ago. So it's good in the sense that you have more of a, what I would say is democratization of sports media that anybody who's good at it can do it and you don't necessarily have to work in the small town, but at the same time, I think there are sort of fundamental things about the job that you're better off having gone through. On a smaller level, mistakes you need to make, knowing how to approach topics, how to approach people after losses that you build up over time and become better when you're fully formed, as opposed to maybe people who kind of came up in the Internet world and don't even interact often with the people they cover. And I think that's a huge difference. My first job out of college, I was covering Colorado college hockey team, Division 1 school out in Colorado Springs, really high level Division 1 hockey program. I was on the road with them all the time. I was at every practice, I was talking to the players, to the coaches constantly. And that does sort of give you a different perspective because again, like people now could just kind of take shots and, and they never have to interact with the people that they talk about. And I think that's a real unfortunate side of this business because I like that back and forth, that personal interaction, and I think it helps me tell stories better.

Matt Rhule (25:39)

Who are the people you feel like, hey, I need to read, I need to read this person. I need to hear, hear their take as it relates to sports.

Dan Wolken (25:46)

You know, journalism, certainly on the college beat, there's a lot of great people and, and you know, Pat40, Nicole Auerbach are good friends of mine. Pete Thamel is obviously incredible in terms of the news. And those are people I've known for many, many years. I've worked with a lot of them, people at USA Today that I worked with. Paul Meyerberg's a good friend of mine. I think he's one of the smartest college football people out there, you know, But I'm also just a sports fan. I read, I read everything. I read, I read NBA, I read golf. Like, you know, I think like Alan Shipnock, who covers golf, is one of the best in the world just in terms of covering golf from a really unique angle and, you know, getting the real inside story on what's going on on tour. So, you know, people like that, I, I am absolutely, you know, blessed to not only be colleagues with them, but to see them often at events. I go cover and to be friends with them and to go have a beer and just talk and, and learn. And you know, I think that's the great part about our business is, you know, I think kind of like coaches where, you know, you guys compete against each other, but at the end of the day you're collegial and you want to learn from each other and you want to, you know, you want to be, you want to be friends on a certain level. I think it's the same thing in our business.

Matt Rhule (27:00)

Like, what's your day look like? How do you keep up with it all?

Dan Wolken (27:02)

Typically, for me, like, I get up early in the morning, try to get my workout in early, you know, get, get the blood moving a little bit, try to get back to my computer like 9, 9:30, go through the headlines, read about what's going on in the day. You know, typically, especially now during college football season, I've got kind of an idea every week about what I'm going to be doing and the stories I need to tackle. So, like, during the season it's a little bit more, I think, organized in that way. And honestly, it just doesn't feel like there's ever enough time to cover everything that you need to cover. And then obviously you get closer to Saturday. Sometimes I'm at games, sometimes like this past weekend, watching from home, you know, watch your game last weekend alongside, you know, I think three others on, on my, on my big screen. And you know, and so that's kind of cool too because you do get a better sense of what's going on around the whole country on a Saturday as opposed to just being in a press box at one venue where it's a little harder to keep up. So I like a mix. But yeah, like, you have to read a lot. You have to read, you know, newspapers, Internet sites, everything. And you know, sometimes watching TV to see what ESPN is talking about on first take and know that can contribute. But that's the cool thing about this job is every day is going to be different.

Matt Rhule (28:15)

What's the best live sporting event you've ever attended and been a part of?

Dan Wolken (28:20)

All right, well, I'll give you a couple different answers. One, and the one that probably I tell people when they say, what's your most memorable day of your career? It was probably 2015 covering the Belmont Stakes. It was the first time we had a horse racing Triple Crown winner in 37 years. We was cool about that for me is I grew up around the racetrack. I grew up Oaklawn park in Hot Springs, Arkansas. My parents were, were in that business. I was literally, you know, growing up at the track with them. And, you know, I just remember talking to my dad, my grandfather, you know, we'd always talk about horses and who was going to win the Derby and stuff like that. And, and there had Never been a Triple Crown winner in my lifetime. So to be able to be there that day, and, you know, I'm. I'm standing next to Joe Torrey and the Burger King mascot, who, I guess Burger King had paid Bob Baffert, the trainer, to, like, put him in his box to watch the race for promotional stuff. And so I'm, like, standing in between him watching the race and the horse wins. And then there's just this roar for, like, 15 minutes. And it's just so loud and vivid in my mind still as he comes back around to the winner's circle. Just. People were so happy, so pumped up to be there, to see history. So that's the kind of stuff you live for. And then to be able to just write about it as a professional, as well as being just a fan of the sport my whole life, that was unbelievable. But I would also say, like, the Olympics. Every time I do an Olympics, it's so unique, it's so exhilarating. I'm just filled with adrenaline for two weeks. And you have to be, because you hardly ever get any sleep because you're going just from one event to the other to the other. This last year in Paris, I thought one of the coolest days of my career, bar none. I covered the men's tennis gold medal match. Djokovic, greatest player of all time, finally wins the gold medal. It's the last thing he hadn't won. Incredible match. Incredible feat. And I cover the match. They do the press conference. I write the column. Really quick, jump in a cab, go across town to the big stadium where they were going to do the 100 meters and saw no Lyles. When the hundred. Which, if you remember that race, it was like a photo finish. Like there were, you know, you couldn't even tell who won. And so to like to be able to do those two things back to back the same day, write two stories about those things, I mean, that's as good as it gets.

Matt Rhule (30:45)

I love that. You know, I had. Going back to what you said about horse racing, I'd been to the Preakness, and then this year we went to the Derby, but I went to Oaklawn to speak at the Broyles Award. Okay, they did the. They did the college. They did the college dinner, and then the next day was the high school dinner, and I was the. I was the speaker. So I went down, and I'm not much of a horse racing expert, so I called Marty Hernie, who was the GM in Carolina when I was there, who now, you know, excellent Excellent, excellent horse racing guy. Got all his picks, and I ended up. I didn't win a race the entire day. So I'm not sure if Marty's. Marty, if he was mad at me about something or what, but I thought the people there were awesome. And I thought, you know, what a beautiful place. Just. Just how kind and inviting everyone was. I didn't realize you were from there, but really a. Really a nice foray. I got to go down and be in Winter Circle afterwards. It was really, really a cool experience.

Dan Wolken (31:34)

So my parents and my grandfather and my great grandfather actually started the business. They ran the food and beverage concessions at Oaklawn.

Matt Rhule (31:42)

Oh, wow.

Dan Wolken (31:43)

And. And then they got out of that. They. They sold the business. And, you know, now my. My parents are retired, but that's why I was there every single day. I would go into the office, I worked in the restaurants. I, you know, sold concessions on the concession stands, but that's where I was. Like, I was at the track all the time. How did you like the Derby? What did you think of that experience?

Matt Rhule (32:02)

I thought it was amazing. You know, we went with Troy Dannon and his wife Amy, our athletic director. My wife and I and went. And we had been with the Preakness years ago when I was at Temple. We run Under Armour School, and they would always have a party at the Preakness, and you'd kind of be there and, like, you'd be at some party and, oh, there's Mike Tyson and there's Tom Brady and you'd be at the finish. Well, this year we were kind of over by the paddock, and so I got to walk out several times, and I would just strike up a conversation with some random people, and they would be in the preliminary races. They'd be like, oh, we own this horse, or we own that horse. And just, you know, I think it's always really cool when you get kind of behind the veil and you get behind the scenes, and these people, like their life. Their life kind of hangs in the balance in the next few minutes. And watching the disappointment, watching the excitement, but. But I love the whole experience. I think it would be something that if I ever had a chance to go again, I 100% would do.

Dan Wolken (32:54)

Yeah, it's a lot to take in, and it's a. It's a grueling day because it's just such a long day and you're fighting for. Just for space. It's 100,000 people there, but you're totally right. And that's one of the reasons I Love covering the Derby is every morning leading up to the race, you go out on the back stretch where the horses are training, and you watch them gallop around, and then you go back to the barns and then the owners are there, their friends are there, and you just talk to them and you get, you get, you know, interesting stories and their perspective. And, you know, a guy like Mike Rapoli, for instance, you know, the guy founded Vitamin Water, and he's worth billions and billions of dollars. You know, he's so invested in horse racing, he wants to win the Kentucky Derby so bad, you know, and it just hasn't happened for him. And it's, It's. You get one shot a year, one shot, two minutes, and everything has to go right. And, you know, even for people who have all the money in the world, like, just to see how they react in that moment and what that week is like for them, it's, It's. It's pretty incredible, I think, and I love it. I absolutely love it.

Matt Rhule (33:58)

I think that brings up a great point, though. Like, people love sports. I mean, you can, like, you can have, as you said, you can have all the money, you can have all the acclaim, but there's just something about the competition. Like, you know, I'd ask you, in a world, you know, with Marvel movies and true crime documentaries and, I mean, all the stuff that you can do on it, what is it about sports that makes, that makes people love it so much?

Dan Wolken (34:18)

It's the ultimate reality show. And, you know, I think it brings out all of the best and worst qualities in people, you know, because when you get in the pressure, when you get in the moment, whatever is inside you is going to come out, right? And, and you see, like, how people respond, you know, it doesn't necessarily mean they're always going to play well or they're always going to do it, right? But that's part of the journey, too, is, you know, from one year to the next, you see the growth. You see, all right, this was devastating last year. All right, how do you bounce back? How do you respond? Even though not all of us are able to athletically compete in sports at that, in that way, I think we all sort of understand what it's like to invest everything you have in something and, and try. And then you see if, if it goes your way, you see if you can triumph and overcome. This goes back 10,000 years of human history, you know, where people were competing in, you know, chariot racing and, you know, whatever. Like, this is just one of the most basic fundamental Things that human beings have. Have had since. Since recorded history.

Matt Rhule (35:26)

I think that's what's cool about the Olympics. To your point. That's what's cool about really all the sports. You see people overcoming it. But the one thing we haven't done great in college football, in my mind, is we just say, like, well, this is a better team than that team we assign, as opposed to, like, the NFL, where you play it out. You play it out because maybe you're a better team. But there's something about competition, like, hey, I'm going to beat you today, or you're going to beat me today. And that's why I love. We always root for the underdog. I always love, like, the excellent ones, the people who are just building dynasties because they have to go out and do it over and over and over again. Like, it's not just handed to them, like, oh, well, you're the best team. They have to. You have to go and compete and earn it. And I'm sitting here today like, you know, I could feel completely different if one or two plays go differently. But that's what makes you feel like it's worth it, and that's what makes you feel like sport. You know, it makes you feel alive. I don't know if that makes sense, but it's how I feel.

Dan Wolken (36:15)

It does. And I think it's a little harder in college football because you just have so few games and so few opportunities. You know, if you were playing a sport like tennis or golf, every sort of match or every tournament is like its own thing, and then you repeat it again, and it becomes like a series, right? It becomes like a TV series. And. And it goes back and forth and up and down. But like in college football, yeah, you lose to Michigan, well, you're not going to have a chance to. To rectify that. You know, that specific thing, like, for you guys, like, when I saw the way you played, it's clear that you guys still have some areas you need to. You need to take this thing and improve the program. But, you know, I think you guys are on the right track, and I think just me from the outside watching your team play. You know, as I always say, tradition. Tradition rises in college sports eventually, you know, and I think the trajectory you guys are on, you can see because of how much people care and because of what you guys are putting into it, you're. You're inching closer.

Matt Rhule (37:11)

Yeah. I always believe in everything. You know, two things can be true. Like, you can be really disappointed that you lost the game and also really proud of the ascension and the direction that you're heading. And then it can be the other way. You can win a game and say, hey, I'm really happy we won, but, man, I'm. I'm concerned, you know, so there's, there's no doubt that we are, we're headed, you know, where you're supposed to be. So, so what. What story. What story in sports right now isn't being covered enough?

Dan Wolken (37:38)

Wow, that's a really, really good question. Well, I will be a little bit biased here just because, you know, some people know I'm a tennis guy, where that sport is right now and, and sort of the way it's being played and where it's going, it almost blows my mind. If you compare the way that game is being played today to, to the 1970s or 1980s, just in terms of the athleticism, how athletically superior you now have to be to excel in that sport. I think it's. It's absolutely incredible. And I don't think it probably gets enough, enough credit among the general sports fan who maybe thinks it's like kind of a, you know, a country club, a feat sport, something like that. No. Go to a tournament, go to a match, watch the top 10 players in the world play, you will come away understanding these are absolutely, bar none, some of the best and most not just fittest, but just the toughest, some of the toughest athletes in the world right now.

Matt Rhule (38:42)

You know, I went to Indian Wells this year. My son and I went out and we had, I had an event. I had to. I got to do fundraising event and went out and watched. I'm not a tennis official. I think it was Alcaraz when he, when he lost. And also I'd say where the sport is in terms of the technology, the, the replays, the. I'm sitting there like, man, we're still, we're still using a chain gang in football and, and the ball hits out of bounds and an automated voice says, in, out. But, but you are right. It's one of those sports I feel much like hockey until you're there. Until you're at a hockey rink and you're up close and you see an NHL team skating and cutting and how much athleticism is required. Till I was there and had good seats and saw them racing from side to side and just the look on their face afterwards. And in between, I don't know if I ever appreciated it enough. And it's something I plan on going back to next year because the whole Thing was. The whole thing was like a great party. It was an amazing event and elite athleticism. So I definitely see exactly what you're saying.

Dan Wolken (39:40)

Yeah, and you bring up a good point about technology. I mean, that's something in sports right now. You know, I think specialization, I think affordability, accessibility, and then, you know, technological advancements in all of these sports in terms of training and the amount of data that. That you get in terms of feedback, all of those things are stories that. That maybe I take for granted a little bit because I'm in it. Maybe you take for granted because it's, you know, your players are using all that stuff that the common fan may not totally understand or appreciate. You know, just how advanced some of this stuff really is right now.

Matt Rhule (40:22)

No doubt. Well, you know, I. I want to make sure I take a moment to thank you. You know, I think sometimes. I think people think coaches sometimes, like, you know, their relationship with people in the media. How is. I mean, I. I would say that my relationship with people in the media has always been really appreciative, because at the end of the day, like, I don't. We don't get to do what we do if people don't cover it, if people don't watch it, if people don't care about it. And I just have so much respect for the way in which you do things, because I can't imagine how hard it is, as you said earlier, like, you have to criticize people. You have to say, you know, why'd he say this? Why'd he do that? But I think you're one of the guys who I, as I've always been around, you, always does it with such class and dignity, and I respect that a great deal. I think the whole world, just, all of us, if we could all learn just to talk to each other and listen to each other just a little bit better, disagree, you know, have our opinions, but just do it in a way that's respectful. We'd be a better world.

Dan Wolken (41:14)

Hey, listen, Matt, I've had plenty of times in my career where people have called me and yelled at me, and sometimes I deserved it, sometimes I didn't. But you guys, your livelihoods are on the line. You're putting it all out there. You're doing it in public. It's not easy on you. It's not easy on your families. You know, I try to always be understanding of that. But also, you know, I got a job to do, too. And sometimes that includes holding people accountable, you know, and just as long as you do it in a, in a fair and accurate way. I do think that that coaches and the media can, can definitely have that, that respectful and constructive relationship where we're both getting out of it, what, what we need, and, and what I think actually helps the sport.

Matt Rhule (41:54)

100% agree. Well, hopefully you have some really good things to say about us the rest of the year. Just like you this Saturday, if you, if you see me this Saturday, I'll have four games going on at once. I'll be doing just what you're doing, and that's watching this game we love. So thank you very much, Dan, for being on. Appreciate your brother.

Dan Wolken (42:06)

Appreciate it. Thanks, Matt.

Matt Rhule (42:12)

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Co-host/Interviewer (43:07)

Let's go. Anything but football. And this is where we love our audience to come in and ask Coach question. Listen, he's a renaissance man. If you can see by the shirt.

Matt Rhule (43:16)

By the way that shirt rolls, dude, seek discomfort. Live your life like that, man. See, it's okay to be a little different. It's like, I love the fact you're drinking. You're drinking Outlaw Light in the coolest mug I've ever seen in my life. Like, like, is that a chai latte or is that a cold beer? Like, that's like, you're just not afraid to, like, just seek discomfort. That's amazing.

Co-host/Interviewer (43:40)

That's elephant stein from Africa.

Matt Rhule (43:44)

Is it really?

Co-host/Interviewer (43:45)

I love it. Definitely an elephant stein. I don't know where it's from. I just found it. I was like, I love this die.

Matt Rhule (43:52)

That's what I'm talking about.

Co-host/Interviewer (43:54)

In that style, it works out Perfect. All right. This comes from Frank Pietron. Tony. All right, Coach, what was the most challenging obstacle that you had overcome and. And. Or your team from as a young person that you later realized help you shape into who you are today? So your biggest obstacle from childhood, what was it?

Matt Rhule (44:20)

I was born in State College, Pennsylvania, where Penn State is. We moved out to Kansas City because my dad went to seminary there to be a pastor. I lived there for four years, moved to New York City. We lived a couple different places in New York City. Eventually settled in Rose island, which is. Which is in between Queens and Manhattan. Was a city kid. Then as a junior in high school, moved to Pennsylvania State College High back to State College. Went from, like, taking the subway to school to, like, walking to school. And the negative of that is, like, sometimes you feel like you never quite fit in somewhere, right? Like, it's like my son Bryant, because of my coaching career, he's moved everywhere. I think he's gone, like, 14 different schools. So the negative is like, man, like, you say to me, like, where's your home? It's like, you know, well, I lived here, I lived here, I lived here. So I think that maybe that could have been an obstacle, a challenge, because you always had to start over. I just had to meet new people. You know, like, I was a junior in high school, and I'm going to a new football team, and it's like, you know, the new baseball team. I didn't really, you know, like, they don't know who you are. So I'd say that was a challenge. The positive of that was, you know, I've lived in the city, I've lived in the country, I've lived all over. And in coaching, you know, I've lived in Texas, I've lived in la, I've lived in Charlotte. I've lived here in Lincoln, Nebraska. I've lived in Philly. And I learned as a kid to be comfortable everywhere I am and not worry about the geography, not worry about the conditions, but instead, learn how to connect with people and make great relationships with people. And so even a place like Charlotte, which, you know, being the head coach of the Panthers, didn't work out very good for me. And there was a lot of hard things, and Covid happened, and then, you know, the hot seat. We met some of the best people, people I know during my time there. And my kids went to amazing schools. My son's life was changed by a school called the Fletcher School. My girls went to Charlotte. Latin, had a great. So I just learned that instead of letting the circumstances dictate, you know, your reaction. Like, the circumstances are the circumstances, but you can choose to have a positive attitude. And one of the best ways to have a positive attitude, in my mind, is to connect with other people and embrace their differences and have talk. So as a result, you know, I'm sitting here at the University of Nebraska. I've got guys from California, I've got guys from Philly, I've got guys from Florida, I got guys from Texas, and I got guys from the Midwest. And instead of a world where we always are always talking about all of our differences and find the commonalities, find the things that we're all going through, like, in two weeks, we're gonna go play at Minnesota, and it'll be our breast cancer game. And my wife Julie, lost her mom, Donna, to a battle with breast cancer. My mom, Gloria, is a breast cancer survivor. But both of us have had our lives affected by that. And because one of the things I've always said is, like, you know, sit in a room full of people, you know, Republicans, Democrats, you know, African American, Caucasian, you know, Latino, find all these differences, you know, young, old, and then say, hey, who here has had someone they love affected by cancer, who's had the mom, grandma, aunt, someone affected by breast cancer? And all of a sudden, we all put our hands up and it's like, so what you're telling me is the worst day of your life is similar to the worst day of my life. The worst day of my life was when my mom called me and said, hey, I've got cancer. The worst day of Julie's life is when her mom lost her battle to cancer. And so the things that we think separate us, they're so minuscule compared to the things that connect us. And so I learned that at a young age, moving all around the country, living in the city, living here, living there. Hey, people are people. And you know what? I'm going to live my life connecting with people. And so you come here to Nebraska, man, we fit in right away. Why? Because there's amazing people here in Nebraska, just like there are in Cape May, New Jersey, just like because, you know, there are in Philly and everywhere else we've lived.

Co-host/Interviewer (47:53)

It's such an important lesson because you get that when you travel abroad. I love going involved in people's cultures, because when you see the different cultures, you realize the commonality and you go, oh, my God, you guys are about family. Well, yeah, we're about family, right? Oh, we're about. And then you start to see the customs, and you start to apply them to your own. And all of a sudden, like, you love the difference, like the food and everything else, but then you start to realize, like, oh, man, we're really a lot alike. And you realize how much we all have in common, which is the most beautiful thing and the greatest connector there is.

Matt Rhule (48:35)

And so I think one of the things that, like, you know, for our kids, you know, and for all the parents out there for their kids is one of the coolest things about our kids generation is that they can connect with all these people they care about all the time on their phone.

Co-host/Interviewer (48:45)

Yeah.

Matt Rhule (48:45)

The scary thing is, though, that they can be. They can be in Italy, they can be in Switzerland, and just be spending all their time talking to their friends back here. And I'm always wanting my players. I'm always like, hey, like, show up to different events, meet new people, walk around the room, shake people's hands, you know, never know who you're going to meet, who you're going to connect with. I was in Italy two years ago, and I rented like a. A Vespa by myself. I was with a bunch of people, and I was like, I'm just going to go ride this. And I. I went and I started riding this thing, and I had to make a phone call for work, and so I found a place. I pulled up to the top of, like, this. This, like, village, and I pulled into the village to make this call for work, and all of a sudden I saw a bunch of old guys sitting outside drinking coffee, sitting around the table, and I'm like, I'm gonna make this call later. These guys have life figures. Now. I couldn't speak. They spoke only Italian. I was out in the middle. But, like, go have a conversation. Yes, go, go, go meet some new people. Like, like some of the best people I know. I just met in a random way, and we connected. And so the phone is great. Stay. Stay connected to everyone you love. But also, like, to your point, go meet somebody new and. And find the things that connect us, not the things that separate us.

Co-host/Interviewer (49:49)

So let's take a look. This week, you're doing something different from Maryland.

Matt Rhule (49:53)

You.

Co-host/Interviewer (49:53)

You're flying out Thursday, so you're a day earlier. What's the backstory there?

Matt Rhule (49:59)

Something we don't love doing, but we think it makes sense for this week, and we're going to do it just once this year because, you know, you. You leave here, you go, you get, you know, you get on the plane, take, you know, it takes an hour or so to get to the plane, take off two and a half hours there. You taxi at bwi, which, you know, can always. Who knows what that'll be like? And then about an hour to the airport. So we figured we're not gonna get there to like nine or ten o' clock at night. And we thought maybe it'd be like an 11 o', clock, you know, 3 o' clock game, which is 3 o'.

Dan Wolken (50:23)

Clock.

Matt Rhule (50:23)

So we said, hey, let's go out Thursday night. You know, let's. Let's practice Thursday morning. Give the guys a couple hours. Let's go out Thursday. We'll get in late. You know, the NFL game will be on. Some college games, guys can go to their rooms, get a snack, wake up Friday. Let's just. Let's just hang out, man. Like, you know, we went and played at Kansas City, and that was a road game, but it felt like a home game. But getting on a plane, going. Going to the east coast, going to another time zone, it's kind of cool, man. It's like, you know, you kind of all sequester in the hotel together. It's like, you know, just kind of. Just the team, you know, it's a little different. I love it. And so, you know, we'll go to a local high school, we'll walk through on Friday, we'll have some meetings. You know, we'll go see our movie that we always go and see. But I just think it gives us a chance to spend a little time together, eliminate the distraction of, hey, what happens if we get stuck in traffic? So we just said, hey, let's not mess with it. Let's go Thursday. And I get two nights. Two nights in the Marriott. I'll be fired up.

Co-host/Interviewer (51:14)

Are you gonna. Are you gonna get crabs for the team? Are they gonna have some Maryland crabs?

Matt Rhule (51:19)

Kristen Coggin is our team performance nutritionist. She's amazing. And I said, listen, I don't if it's good or not to have crabs and crab cakes and all that for the team. You decide that. But make sure they're in my room, okay? I just need a real crap. Not the cr. You know, not the crab cake we have all over the world, you know, like the crab. The round little crab cat cake with the. You go to. You go to Maryland. And the crab cake is like. It's just like all over the plate.

Co-host/Interviewer (51:42)

Like, it doesn't have crab meat.

Matt Rhule (51:44)

Delicious. I can't wait.

Co-host/Interviewer (51:48)

How. How dangerous are them? They had a lead and Washington came back on them and shocked them. How dangerous is it to face a team off a loss like that?

Matt Rhule (51:59)

Yeah, well, it's just like us coming off the Michigan game, like, you know, we were angry, you know. You know, I think the biggest thing is, is that, first of all, Mike Loxley is an amazing coach. Like, he's dominated that area in recruiting for a long time. They've got a great quarterback, freshman quarterback, five star. He's going to be awesome. You can always see what he's doing. Dynamic receivers. They're one of the best passing offenses in the country, and they're probably one of the best defenses in the country. You know, they went to Wisconsin and beat Wisconsin. Like, that's hard to do. Like, you know, they're playing jump around. They're playing all that up there in Madison. That's a hard place to go. Win. And it was 273 with, like, minute left. I mean, they dominated the game. So this is a really, really, really good football team. Our team has to manage the distractions of traveling and then get there and just make it football and play one snap at a time, not worry about what's happening. Just keep playing the next play. You do that, you always give yourself a chance to win. But, yeah, they're an excellent team. This will be a lot of fun. This will be a really good, really good game. And you know me, I'm so excited to get back on the East Coast. I. I can almost smell it right now. It's like, I'll get to come kind of home with all my friends from Philly, and different people will. Different people will be making their way down. I do think there's a pretty good chance, knowing Julia, that she'll probably go ahead of time to Cape May and get a little Jersey time and drive over. So it'll.

Co-host/Interviewer (53:09)

It's going to be nice this week. So. She got it. She could get a beach day in.

Matt Rhule (53:13)

She would. She'll find a way. Trust me.

Co-host/Interviewer (53:16)

All right, I'm going to send the cannolis down for you. All right. This way we'll be all set up.

Matt Rhule (53:21)

Please, please.

Co-host/Interviewer (53:23)

Love it. Love it. House rules, baby.

Matt Rhule (53:27)

You're the best, bro. Well, that's it. Another episode in the can. Please remember to, like, share or subscribe on YouTube or wherever. Get your podcasts, and please follow house rules on socials until next time.