← House Rhules
House Rhules
What Do Nebraska’s Matt Rhule and On3’s Andy & Ari Have in Common? | House Rhules Ep. 7
01:26:51
Loading summary
Transcript234 lines
- [00:02]
Matt Rhule
What's up, everybody? It's another episode of House Rules. It's game week here in Lincoln. We'll talk Michigan State. Coming up, we'll talk about bi week recruiting. Andy Staples, Ari Wasserman will visit us, talk about college football, barbecue, and everything else in between. And finally, in office hours with the one, the only Husker, DeShawn Singleton. This is House Rules. Welcome back to House Rules. Now, now, before we get started, don't forget to, like, share and subscribe on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. House Rules. House Rules. We're back.
- [00:41]
Host/Interviewer
You know it's back. Husker football is back after a buy. What did you do?
- [00:49]
Matt Rhule
Well, you know, we work during the week. We got better Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday and Thursday, right after practice. Basically halfway through practice, I headed over the airport, got on the Husker jet and started recruiting Till. Till Saturday morning.
- [01:03]
Host/Interviewer
The Husker jet. I need to know more about the Husker jet and what it's like to be on the recruiting trail.
- [01:12]
Matt Rhule
Well, you know, it's not like, it's like a bougie, like, hey, I want to travel in style. I mean, you only get so many days and you want to see as many guys as possible. So, like, we left here, we went to Pierre, South Dakota to see a young man, made sure we stopped in there, actually shot the McAfee show from the. From the FBO there, got on the plane, flew to Fort Worth, went and saw a high school game Thursday night, Friday morning, got up, went and saw a young man there in greater Fort Worth area, flew to Chicago, went and saw one young man, flew the other side of Chicago, saw another young man, and went to the game and then wrapped it all up Saturday morning, got back home and had a chance to at least watch some of the great college football games that were going on on Saturday.
- [01:54]
Host/Interviewer
Oh, yeah, there were. That's why I was. I was texting. I was like, I bought these games. But when you go. So you saw three games total.
- [02:03]
Matt Rhule
Two games, and then one. One was just, you know, going into the school and just evaluating the player in the school.
- [02:07]
Host/Interviewer
And now you can only visit schools, right? You can't go to people's houses.
- [02:12]
Matt Rhule
Yeah, not. Not till. Not till really January, you know, can we go into someone's home first?
- [02:16]
Host/Interviewer
Let's look at the game itself, because when you head to a high school game, you know, it's a huge deal. Right? It's like, that rules here. Like, it's like a. It's like a big deal. The crowds whispered it, like, because he was here, the Oscar jet is in town. You know, it's a big thing. How do you, like, deal with all that?
- [02:37]
Matt Rhule
Well, I mean, you know, obviously we're there to represent Nebraska, and we want. We want that brand to be, you know, loud and exciting. We want, you know, we want the guys talking about it a lot, you know, so, you know, we showed up, Keith Williams and I went on the road together, and, you know, once we get to the game and we try to go out, we try to watch out, there's usually a player or two that we're, you know, we're there to see, and there's always a couple other players that we want to make sure we look at. So you're there to make sure everybody knows, like, hey, you know, this. This player is important to me. That's why we're here. But at the same time, you know, nothing like seeing someone play live, you know, seeing them. Yeah, how they are on the sidelines, how they are with their teammates, how they are with adversity, what's their body language like? So it's a great evaluation tool, but it's also, you know, it's part of the recruiting processes, making sure that, you know, myself and our coaches, that we're. We're out and we're present and we're seeing.
- [03:20]
Host/Interviewer
When you go out and you visit these schools, right, and you see these young men, what are you expecting in the kind of the interview? I mean, obviously you're going to sit with them, they're going to know yard, you're going to do their coaches, the whole thing. What are you looking at?
- [03:34]
Matt Rhule
I think when I talk to any player, when I'm allowed, you know, there's different rules about when you can talk, when you can't. So I think part of going into schools, too, is, you know, see the coach, see the guidance counsel, see the principal, see the people that, you know, interact with that student athlete. And I'm like, hey, what do they think? You know, they know it way better than we do. I think, you know, when you have a chance to talk with a student athlete, you just want to know what's their mindset? Like, what are their priorities? Like, you know, is it. Is it a fit? You know, we do things a certain way. They have to want that. They have to want to make sure that they're going to come and actually get an education. You know, they have to. They have to want to, you know, love football, want to be great at football and understand that we're going to coach 24 7, we're going to work, we're going to grind. Then I think finding out what their questions are, you know what I mean? Like, hey, you know, mom, dad, mentor, whomever's in their life, right? The coach or the young man himself. Like, hey, what's important to you? What questions do you have for us? And I think, you know, when you take the time to listen, when you take the time to really figure out what's important, then you can, then you can answer those questions and see if it's a fit. You don't want to trick people into coming to your place because then they're just going to leave, right? You want to have people come who, who are supposed to be there.
- [04:39]
Host/Interviewer
I've always wanted to be like this amateur scout, right. I love it. I like when you could see, when you love sports, you love talent. It's like it's an art of movement, right. And what's interesting is looking at a player and then projecting what he'll grow into. Right. And you know, what they're going to be looked at once they're taught and they're eating properly and training the correct way. That's got to be a blast.
- [05:06]
Matt Rhule
Yeah. So if you think about it, like a lot of kids get their offers, you know, after their junior year, going into their junior year, and you're basically sometimes watching someone at the age of 16, 15, and say, what are they going to be like when they're 22? So there's way more projection to the high school stuff. You know, if you're in the NFL, you kind of, you know, there's a, there's a transition from college. If you're looking at a free agent, you're kind of hiring him to do what he does. The portal is a little bit like that. The portal is a little bit more about production, whereas I think recruiting is a little bit more about high end talent, potential. But for someone to achieve their potential, they really have to have a mindset of grinding, of growth, of they have to be a gritty guy. And so I think you want to find all that out. But yeah, I love looking at people and saying, like, hey, I see what they can be. You know, I see what he's going to be in three, four, five years. And it's a fun process. Some guys have a great eye for it. Other guys are just great coaches. They can't evaluate as well. They're great coaches. And now what we've done in Nebraska is we're building out a personnel department so we really have, you know, people who. That's what they do full time and allows the coaches to coach and then when it's time, they join in as well.
- [06:09]
Host/Interviewer
It's so interesting because the college football is now mimicking the NFL, right? So you need to have these personnel departments and you need to be doing all that so you can't live on the Husker jet.
- [06:23]
Matt Rhule
It's funny, I remember when the portal first opened, I remember some people bringing up, like, you know, having a portal apartment, almost like a pro scouting department. I remember I was like, come on, what are you talking about? I'll never do that. Now. It's, I mean, the software, the stuff that's out there, you know, ratings on every player in the country because you never know who's going to be a free agent. You know, you never know who's going to go into the portal. And so the ability to recognize talent and recognize. I think one of the biggest things, though is it's not just talent, it's talent that fits you and what you're going to do. Joe Brady. I remember when Joe came to work for us in Carolina, he would always talk about, you know, he'd work for Sean Payton. He would always talk about, what's the vision for the player like, I see his talent, I see what his high end could be, but also what's the vision like, how are we going to use this player? And I think that helps you. When you're talking to a player and you're like, listen, this is how we're going to use you. This is the vision we have for you. And, you know, if you're a good player with a lot of talent and you go someplace where the vision doesn't fit you, you're not going to be real successful. So I think being able to articulate that for a player is helpful for them and helpful for us.
- [07:20]
Host/Interviewer
You brought up Joe Brady. So imagine the NFL and Daniel Jones. Think about you're the Giants. And Daniel Jones, according to the fan base, was all the issues that were hurting the Giants. Now he goes to Indianapolis and he looks great. He almost won yesterday. The story, the NFL, those kinds of players who leave and it's like that in the portal in college football. How do you as a coach reconcile that?
- [07:49]
Matt Rhule
You know, I've had that on both ends, right? I've had players that have come to play for us, that have played their best football. And that's really one of your goals as a coach is, you know, I always say, like, you know, I went in college I want the players to say their life is better because they came here. And if as a football player, pro or college, I want them to say they played. They played their best football for us. We've also had some players, like, play their best football for us and leave and go in the portal and go to other places. And, you know, when they have success, I take pride in the fact, like, hey, we developed him. Yeah, I've also had players who play for me, and it didn't quite. Wasn't great, and they went somewhere else and they had success. And, you know, I'm happy for them. It can be a little convicting. It can be a little disappointing. Hey, why weren't we able to get this out? But every team runs a certain offense. Every team runs a certain defense. Every team has a certain culture. Every team has a certain way of doing things. And, you know, sometimes either a player isn't a fit, sometimes the guy just needs a fresh start, right? Like, there comes a time where like, you know, just feels like the weight of the world's on our shoulders. And it's like, man, I just, you know, maybe this guy just needs a fresh start somewhere else. And so I think every case can be different. If you have a bunch of guys leaving you who aren't successful and then they're successful somewhere else, sometimes you got to go look back and say to yourself, like, hey, you know, what are we doing wrong here? You know, we've pride ourselves over the years at Temple. I mean, guys who were one star recruits walk ons two star recruits, Deon Dawkins, Tyler Matakevich, Hasan Reddick have gone on and been great, great, great pros. And so we want that to be our DNA, but. But not everyone's going to be a fit for us. And sometimes a player comes in and it's just, you know what? There might be a better system. There might be a better culture that's. That's better for who they are. And, you know, you take that and you take it with a grain of salt.
- [09:19]
Host/Interviewer
So you come back Saturday, you see the family, and then you watch a little college football. Because I had to text you, that Oregon, Penn State game was wild, right? I mean, it was the way Oregon jump finally seizes control. It's three, three at halftime. And then, you know, Penn State comes back, and then it's overtime. Here you are, head coach there. Now you just. Football fan, right? Like, you're just watching now. Your eyes, you'll see tape and different stuff, but are you watching like a football fan?
- [09:55]
Matt Rhule
I'm watching like a football fan, man. I have, I had the Georgia game, Georgia Bama here, I had South Carolina up there. I, I had the Penn State, Oregon game here. And then, I mean, really, really throughout the day, my son and I sat there. You know, Julie's the best. She's like, she had the girls for volleyball, she said, I'll take the girls to the volleyball games. And once I was able to do it, I was able to watch football. And I think as you're watching it like a fan, like, obviously there's a coach in you. Hey, take a time out here. Don't take a time out there. Papa Pah. But I think that's what's great about the game of football, right? Like what you saw was a lot of games aren't over till they're over. You know, Wake Forest, Georgia Tech, you know, Wake Forest gets way up, Georgia Tech comes back, comes down to a two point conversion. Games came down to long kicks. You know, the Florida State game, Virginia the night before, we weren't able to, we were recruiting and we got there, we got to a TV with like, with like three minutes left and we saw the last three minutes and it's, it's what makes college football so great, right? Like, you know, the teams are going to get down, they're going to come back. I mean, there's wild swings, you know, Penn State got down, they fought back at home, the crowd was in it. And you know, Oregon, Oregon just made one more play. And that's, you know, that's what two heavyweights are, slugging it out. Man. It usually comes down to, it comes down to one last punch and Oregon got it. That doesn't mean Penn State's not a great team. That was, that, that was just a really good football game.
- [11:10]
Host/Interviewer
What do you tell your quarterback that, you know, it's that kind of game and it's Drew Aller, it's white out, it's Oregon, you know the history of Penn State and winning big games, the whole thing. And now your quarterback. I just want to put it, if you were the coach and it's your quarterback, not Drew Aller, but he throws a pick in that overtime like that in front of all that kind of crowd, that kind of night. How do you handle it as a coach?
- [11:41]
Matt Rhule
Well, I think what's important is you're only in that type of a game, you know, a top five matchup because of the guys that are on the field. And so, you know, when the man, you know, it's the man that Steps in the arena, right? The person who has the guts to go out there and compete. You know, when you take that risk, there's gonna be times where Mr. Thompson doesn't work out. You know, I think the biggest thing is right in that moment, it's time to have each other's back. Man, put your arm around him. I thought, you know, you saw coach Franklin did that with Drew. You know, I would do the same thing with our guy. Like, you know, put your arm around him. I love you. But remember, we're only here because of those guys, right? Like, you know, that's a top five matchup for a reason. And so no one feels worse and a big moment is than the guy who drops the ball, the guy who misses the tackle, or guy who. Who throws the, you know, interception or whatever it is. And so that's. That's a time for me to come together and show brotherhood and show team, because not many teams are going to go undefeated this year. And it's going to. It's really about which teams can make sure a loss does not beat them twice. You know, that the loss happens. You're disappointed, you're frustrated, you move on, and you get better. Not. Not that you're, you know, living in your feelings for a long time. And so that, to me, that starts right after the game. Man, you dealt with it. You go in there, you heal together. You take the night off, and you come back in the next day, get back to work.
- [12:53]
Host/Interviewer
Well, it was almost like what you did two weeks ago, right? A tough game, lose a tough game. It's like, all right, you know what, we'll mourn for a minute, and then we're gonna move on. Guys, let's go. We know what we need to do. We know we have to get back to work. And that's kind of the message.
- [13:11]
Matt Rhule
When we realize in life that no one's coming to save us, you know, that's up to us. That's the age to learn it. You know, you're 14, you're 15, you're 16 years old. Something goes wrong, your par parents step in. You know, someone. Teachers step in. People who love you step in. At some point, the person who steps in in your life is you. And, you know, that's what we want to teach our guys. We want them to have agency. We want them to be warriors. And so as a team like you, you. You lose a game you thought you had a chance to win, you're a play away. Like you, you can feel sorry for yourself, but then you're gonna lose again. You gotta come back in. You gotta own it. You gotta learn from it. And then you have to get back to work, because guess what? The next team you face, they want to come in. They want to stick a knife in your jugular, just like Coach Lanning said. Like, they want. They want to. They want to kill you. And so you better be ready to fight back. And so that's why football is the greatest game. It teaches you all that, right? And that's why I love it. You know, it's. It's. It's easy to be a great leader, be a great captain when you're undefeated. Like, show me who shows up the day after a loss, and I'll show you. I'll show you a good guy, a good team.
- [14:11]
Host/Interviewer
All right, so the most important burning question is you and your son watching college football. What are you eating? What's the menu? If you're watching like a football fan, how do you eat like a football fan?
- [14:25]
Matt Rhule
You know, Julie went to culinary school, right? So she. She had the. She had the meatballs and the sauce going all day. So we had. We had a nice pasta dinner Saturday night. You know, during the game, I actually. I actually made. Whipped a couple things up, whipped up a couple crab cakes. Now, they were frozen. I heated them up. But listen, it doesn't matter. You know, I did something right, so. But now Brian and I, we had chips and salsa. We had some crab cakes. You know, a little. Little, you know, might. Might have had some other things you're not supposed to eat. But we were definitely on a cheat day. And then, like I said, Julie made the, you know, pasta, meatballs, and nice red sauce was fantastic.
- [15:01]
Host/Interviewer
Ah, that sounds like heaven. Football gravy sauce meatballs at the Rule House.
- [15:09]
Matt Rhule
You should have come over.
- [15:12]
Host/Interviewer
Send me the Husker Jet. I'll be there.
- [15:23]
Matt Rhule
The other day, I wasted hours trying to cancel an app subscription on my phone for sleep. Sounds well, today's sponsor, Rocket Money, is here to help. Rocket Money is an easy to use app that helps you save more and manage your money better. I love using Rocket Money to cancel my unwanted subscriptions. You connect your bank account and it identifies all your subscriptions in a single list. Then you select the ones you don't want or need anymore. And Rocket Money may be able to help you cancel with just a few taps. Also, it's just a great tool for saving money. I know Rocket Money has helped me and my family save money, and they've helped customers save up to $740 a year when using all of the app's premium features. Who couldn't use another $740 to try Rocket Money out today and unlock more features with Premium, head to RocketMoney.com rule or click the link in the video. Description. Welcome into another episode of Office Hours. Blessed to be here right now with the one, the only DeSean singleton, also known as eight ball in the specialties meetings. How are you?
- [16:25]
DeShawn Singleton
I'm doing good. I'm doing good.
- [16:27]
Matt Rhule
So talk a little bit about, you know, obviously you were here before I got here, but talk about your unique journey coming out of high school, kind of where you went, how you got to Nebraska.
- [16:36]
DeShawn Singleton
But it's coming out of high school.
- [16:38]
Andy Staples
Obviously I didn't have any offers under.
- [16:40]
DeShawn Singleton
Recruited, didn't really have any other options, and I had a worked at juke club. So coach gave me a call and he was like, do you want to take a visit? I was like, no, I'm not taking a visit. I'm just coming up there. I came there. They told me that if you do what you have to do, you can get out in six months because obviously I was a qualifier, did that, overcame that, got off from Nebraska, and now I'm here.
- [17:08]
Matt Rhule
You know, obviously we have probably the best football building in the world. We feed all. Like, was that what juco was like or what was juco like?
- [17:15]
DeShawn Singleton
No, it was nothing like this. I mean, juco, our ice tubs were like little pools.
- [17:20]
Matt Rhule
So.
- [17:21]
DeShawn Singleton
So it was like a little kiddie pool on the outside of the training room. So that was your ice bath. Didn't have all these cool things. This facility and stuff didn't have film rooms. We had to go in classrooms to go watch films, you know what I'm saying? And things like that weight room, we had probably like six racks, you know, and we was practicing on the high school field. So it was nothing like this.
- [17:42]
Matt Rhule
You're one of the tougher guys I know. You're one of the, like, you're gritty. You don't complain. Like, what did that do to make your character the way it is?
- [17:50]
DeShawn Singleton
I feel like really how I was raised, coming up prepared me for that because I was the same way in junior college, you know what I'm saying? I was always grateful for where I was and knew that I had the mindset and the mentality to push through anything. So I feel like coming up prepared me for junior college to stick it through because I've seen people, like a couple of my friends didn't make it through it, you know, What I'm saying, grew up with them, couldn't make it through juco back at the crib. And so I think my life journey prepared me for that. And then being in juco prepared me for Nebraska.
- [18:28]
Matt Rhule
So we'll talk about two conversations you and I have had. The first one came to me one day. Your brother dj, who had come up to visit us in the summer, cut hair, always out there watching 707. He's a senior in high school. Just you came to me the one day, you know, some things that happened back home and you would come to me about dj, like, hey, this just happened. And then you had to make some real life grown up decisions after that.
- [18:50]
DeShawn Singleton
Yeah, I get a call, I'm in a meeting and DJ called me and he's crying on the phone. He said, DeShawn, BJ just got shot. They shot through the car. They had one of my other buddies in there. He got shot nine times in the leg and BJ got shot in the head. And Vijay's laying on the ground, DJs on top of him. And he called me, he's like, sean, he dead? He did. So I immediately, I didn't know what to do. I think I went to you and I was like, I need, I need my little brother here. Yeah, we got him up here. That was the situation right here. What was going through my head was it was a lot of chaos, you know what I'm saying? And I knew I could come to you because, I mean, obviously you have a heart of no other. So I just knew I could come to you as a man and just ask for your help. I really didn't know what to do at the time, you know what I'm saying? And my mom told me, like, she feel like it's more safe for him to come with me, you know what I'm saying? And I just promised her. She just promised me. She was like, make sure her baby graduate. That's all I was just thinking about. He just got to graduate. He came up there with me. I had to obviously take care of him. I had to be in the parents teacher conferences, had to do all those things, take him to school, come to practice, go to meetings. And obviously it wasn't nothing that by God's grace, I made it through.
- [20:18]
Matt Rhule
So now another time, you and I had a conversation. So we're getting ready to get you to the NFL. We're trying to get you in the Senior Bowl. All the all star games are calling you and all of a sudden there's ncaa has the injunction, junior college ruling. Because, you know, what was once not a blessing became a blessing that you had to go to Chuko for a semester. And also now, you know, you're sitting there saying to yourself, like, do I go pro? Do I come back for another year? And you and I met over at Early Bird.
- [20:45]
Andy Staples
Yeah.
- [20:47]
Matt Rhule
Breakfast. Walk through having to make that decision, that whole process. Like, you know, what. What was that? That's another grow. I mean, you made one grown man. That's another grown man decision.
- [20:56]
DeShawn Singleton
Yeah, yeah, it was. It was. It was a very grown man decision. But I felt like it was a lot of opportunity in that decision, you know what I'm saying? I could have went pro, but obviously I was thinking about this. I didn't have my degree. You know what I'm saying? I wanted my degree. I told mom, I want to be one of the first ones to get a degree in the family. So that was a big part of it. And obviously, I just felt like with the opportunity that you had being in year three, I wanted to be a part of it. I wanted to be a part of that year three programs, you know what I'm saying? So I felt like with that decision, I could put the NFL on hold for a sec, because, I mean, that blessing came out of nowhere. I thought I was done. I was ready to go coach. I thought I was done.
- [21:41]
Matt Rhule
I thought you were going, too. Yeah, I had it made up.
- [21:44]
DeShawn Singleton
I mean, obviously, when a blessing dropped me, your lap like that might as well be like, I can't fight it, man.
- [21:50]
Matt Rhule
When I think about you, right, because in this job, you have so many players, I think about you. I think about a guy that. That loves football enough that he went to junior college, used a bathtub for an ice bath. Guess what? The water is just as cold as this beautiful thing here. You got through that. You grinded through that. You came here, you battled some injuries, you're one of the best players in the Big Ten. But when your family needed you, your brother needed you, you put everything on hold to take care of him. And then when the NFL calls, you come back to get your degree, to be a captain, to be a leader. I just think about the impact of that you're having in all these guys. If. If you could think of one piece of advice, like, you know, there'd be a lot of guys, parents watching this. There'll be a lot of young players, high school players getting ready to go to college. Right. If you had to give one piece of advice for a young man going off to Play football in college. About that journey that you've learned, what would it be?
- [22:38]
DeShawn Singleton
Be persistent. Do? Trial? Do anything. Be persistent. You got to be the same man every day and you, you gotta make that decision every day that I'm gonna get up and do what I'm supposed to do. You know what I'm saying? You just gotta be persistent, bro. Nothing else. That's, that's what I live by. I had to save them off on persistence. Really.
- [23:00]
Matt Rhule
I love that. Well, I love you, man. You're the best.
- [23:02]
DeShawn Singleton
Yes, sir.
- [23:06]
Matt Rhule
With a combined 33 years of sports reporting experience, my next guests know all about college football and creating content that connects with sports fans. Between the two of them, they've covered everything from basketball to college football to barbecue related issues. We're gonna have to talk about that. They've reported for the Tampa Tribune, Cleveland Plain Dealer, Sports Illustrated, the Athletic, and now with our own On3 podcast, please welcome to House Rules, Andy Staples and Ari Wasserman. Thank you, guys. What an intro.
- [23:36]
Andy Staples
That's amazing, guys.
- [23:38]
Matt Rhule
I, I don't know if you could tell, but I read that. I like I did not. Here's the real intro. All right, Sports people out there, there is no feud between us. We love each other and we all love college football and don't, you know, don't believe sometimes content sells. So it's, it's good to have you guys on though. I appreciate you guys doing, you know.
- [23:58]
Ari Wasserman
Matt, you're keenly aware of this and we'll just get the elephant out in the room out of the way here. I wrote a strongly worded column about something that you said in the off season. And you know, it, it went a little bit more viral than I anticipated. But we had a nice conversation on the. And I have a ton of respect for what you have done and are doing at Nebraska and yeah, I'm happy you don't hate me. I'm hoping that some of the fans that, you know, root for your team every Saturday will, will grow to love me too. But, you know, I, I will say this in my defense, and we don't have to get into it. It came from a good place because Nebraska is, is moving in the right direction. When you were hired, I said that they are going to get back with just consistent, sustained competence, which is something that I think is arguable about the past of cornhusker football, recent past. And, you know, you guys are moving in the right direction. So that's all. But hey, if it might be better for the show, if you hate me Though it's up to you, whatever you want to do.
- [24:56]
Matt Rhule
No, there's not. There's not. There's not a bit of hate in this heart. And if we're being honest, if we're being honest, I do hope people appreciate that. Like, that, like when they ask me questions, whether it's about scheduling, whether it's CFP nil, at least I answer. Like, at least I have a take, right? And so, like, then it can be like, you know, so and so rips, you know, I've interviewed more people that ripped me for my takes. But it's better than, you know, it's better than being boring. It's better than just saying like, coach speak. Like, I say what I think and you know, people can, people can say what they want afterwards, you know.
- [25:26]
Andy Staples
Well, and that's the double edged sword with what we do because we want you to say interesting things, but then we give you shit when you do. And that. I get the hypocrisy of that. I try to ride the line when somebody says things that are like Mike Gundy, who, you know, we just, just parted ways with Oklahoma State. Love or hate Mike Gundy. Mike Gundy always told you what was on his mind. And, and for people in our business, that was amazing. So I love that. Now, Matt, we got to get into the backstory of the nice conversation you and Ari had because I'm sitting on my couch on a Wednesday night and I see a number pop up on my phone and I'm like, oh, this is probably spam because I didn't have your Charlotte number. I had your number from Baylor. And so the text comes, this is Matt Rule. And that's all it said. I was like, oh, no, oh no, I'm gonna have to clean Ari's mess up here.
- [26:20]
Ari Wasserman
Yeah, and that was so funny because, you know, every time I make a mistake, whether it be a big one or a small one, my personal life goal was to make Andy be the person who has to deal with it. But yeah, I, here's, here's my, my point of view on it. And I think I shared this with you, Matt, when we talked on the phone. And for those who don't know, you had made a comment about scheduling and whether or not it was advantageous for Nebraska to play tougher games in the non conference when there is an avenue or a route to the playoff that doesn't necessarily require or, or benefit enough to put yourself in peril's way to potentially losing a game and hurting your resume. And from my Standpoint, on the couch that day, when I saw that, I thought Nebraska just got a five star quarterback. That would never have gone there in another coaching regime. They're bringing in players at a high level, they're developing, they're making less boneheaded mistakes, they're not doing the things that, you know, they did in previous regimes. And it seems like they are right on the cusp of actually doing things in a big way that brings Nebraska football back. And I've watched you, Matt, rebuild two different programs before you got to Nebraska. And I appreciate this new version of you, which is I'm gonna just speak for everybody. And you know, I hopefully this is my last job. I love all of that about you. But my column, at least when I wrote it or my intention was, hey, you don't need to worry about scheduling because you guys are doing it so well right now that eventually it doesn't matter who's on your schedule, you're going to be able to beat them. And that isn't the way it was received. And maybe it's because at times when I write, I write, you know, strongly. Headlines also, you know, are out there designed to get attention aren't necessarily what's in the content of the story. But when I wrote it, I never thought that this would even get on your radar, let alone make people upset. I thought Nebraska fans would read it and be invigorated by the thought process. Dylan Rayola is going into his second year. The skill position, players are improved. There's a lot of reason to look at the schedule and say, hey, we can do it. And that's still true. You suffered a tough loss on set. It's still true. And like thinking about that, it just, it was not my intention the way it went, and I hope you can appreciate that. But it was more of a complimentary thing than it was a, an attempt to let's go show Matt Rule. You know, like, that's not, that wasn't what I.
- [28:39]
Matt Rhule
But I think that speaks to, like, I think that speaks, like, even the fact that I can pick up the phone and call Andy, I think that speaks to like, his history with me. And like, I respect the guys who hustle. Like, I respect when I, you know, back when we used to go to the Fiesta Bowl Summit and, you know, and you'd see a core group of guys sitting downstairs, you know, that are working the job right, whether, you know, over the years, all these different guys, right, like, and you see, you know, so you see Andy, you see you, you see Ralph Russo, you see Paul Marbert, and you take the time to visit with those guys. And so when something comes up. Honestly, I hadn't even read the article. It was just kind of. The headlines can be pretty inflammatory, but I was like, dang, guys, it's July. I'm on vacation. Like, I just want to go to the beach. And I'm getting. I'm getting. I'm getting. I'm just getting flamethrowed on social media, which, you know, is part of it. But I think that speaks to the collegiality of being able to pick up the phone and be like, hey, what's. What's going on here? And then you offered for me to go on. On the show, which I thought about doing, and then, thankfully, this went on. But, no, I appreciate the fact that both you guys. I want to make it clear, it wasn't like I was calling, like, what the bleep? It was more like, oh, no, I.
- [29:44]
Andy Staples
Was on your team that night because. Because I said. I said, ari, did you call anybody at Nebraska to give them a heads up? Because the thing when you rip somebody you have to do is you have to give them a heads up. Hey, I'm gonna rip you. And sometimes they're. They. They understand. Sometimes they're mad. Sometimes you end up having a conversation about it that changes a little bit what you. What you're gonna write and. But you gotta give the heads up. And that's the one where I was.
- [30:15]
Ari Wasserman
Like, so, yeah, and Andy called me. We had a long conversation about that because we always, you know, with our extensive history, we worked together at the Athletic for many years. He was at SI and was one of the main personalities of college football during that time period. And you always want to do things journalistically, correct? Right. And I think that if I look back and at it now, and I would have known how you and others would have received it, I certainly would have done that. But if you actually go back, and this is what my mindset was, I didn't view it as, I'm ripping Matt Rule. I viewed it as, what's the point of saying this specific thing when you guys have so many good things going for you? And if you actually, like, go and, like, comb through that column line by line, I don't find it as me ripping you.
- [31:03]
Matt Rhule
It was behind a paywall. I would have done it, but I would have had to pay, like, the. It was behind a paywall. It was like, you also made it.
- [31:09]
Andy Staples
Free, so you help the people out.
- [31:11]
Matt Rhule
Because, yes, I'm fighting The good fight for everybody.
- [31:13]
Andy Staples
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. That's it. You're a man of the people.
- [31:17]
Matt Rhule
And no, and no doubt to your point, what you said, and I think that is the hard thing sometimes about, at least over the years, when you read. You read people's headlines and sometimes the headlines written by an editor. Right. It's just, hey, we need to do this to get people in. And, And I probably, honestly, I'm probably still a little sensitive from kind of the end of my time in Carolina. You know, normally as you're kind of on the, you're on the hot seat and you start to go down, you know, everyone's kind of, you know, they're kind of writing their postmortems on you before you're dead. And I'll never forget, like, Adam Schefter texted me the morning I got fired. He's like, have you been fired yet? I heard you're going to get fired. And I was like, can I just get fired first before you ask me that question?
- [31:54]
Andy Staples
But it's, it's the most awkward thing though, it. When you're so like, I live in Gainesville, Florida. Everybody who follows college sports knows what's going on with Florida right now. And this is, it's the strangest thing being in a small town like this. And Lincoln's very similar. So, like, Billy Napier's kids go to the same school as my kids. And, you know, I see members of the coaching staff all the time, so I don't take the whole conversation about somebody getting fired lightly because it's not just the head coach. It's also everybody in the, in the organization, their families have to pick up and move, you know, and, and we've seen it a lot of times living in this town. It's. It's happened quite a few times over the last few years. So it's, it's such a strange. And, and, but to, like, with Schefter texting you, you have to. Sometimes you have to ask people that. Like, you just have to say, are you getting fired? And it sucks.
- [32:51]
Matt Rhule
Yeah. Pete Thamel told me years ago. He's like, hey, there might be a time I'm gonna have to put you on the hot seat. So going into my third year in Carolina, I was like, I think the time might be now, Pete. I get. People have a job to do. And I think to your point, like, you know, I mean, going back to Coach Gundy, right? Like, I personally, in my time coaching, there's not a coach that I went against that I had more respect for the job they did X's and O's, Y's and coaching and roster than when I was at Baylor and when he was at Oklahoma State. And then he made the comments before the Oregon game this year and that kind of went viral. But like my point very simply is always take out like the school name. Because sometimes when I say things, you know, Paul Finebaum last year said, you know, just worry about that. Well, but it's what I'm saying, right or wrong. If you think it's wrong, then we can debate it. Like, is it right? But like when Mike Gundy was winning 11 games, everyone loved what he had to say. What he said was exactly right. Like there's tiers of money right now that have never, we've never seen before. And we pretended like they're going to go away and they ain't going away. And so let's just call it what it is. Like can, can you win enough games based upon how much your university has invested? Like, I think that's a legitimate, that's a real college football question, not like a let's all get upset and take our side.
- [34:03]
Andy Staples
Oh yeah. And I've had conversations with ads dating back long before Nil. And I actually remember Scott Strickland, who's now the AD at Florida. This was back when he was the AD at Mississippi State. And we were talking about realistic expectations for every school and you know, do the, do the administration's expectations match the fans expectations match the coaches expectations. And it's very hard, like you have to be aligned and you have to have an administration that understands reality. Now I think you with Troy, Dan, and you've got that now at Nebraska, but a lot of places they don't. It's, it's all out of whack because the fans think want one thing the administration doesn't really understand. And it's tough.
- [34:49]
Matt Rhule
There's no doubt it's tough. And I think there's going to be like, there's going to be some universities who either have or will move on from a coach and then regret it for a long time. You know, I mean, you know the University of Nebraska, they fired Frank solich on a 10 win season. I mean, just think about that now. Like I get here two years ago and we bring Coach Solicitz back to a game and they're talking about reversing the curse. Well, that happens to a lot of places when you start saying to yourself, hey, it's hey, let's get rid of this guy and That'll get us to the next tier. It's a lot more than the coach that gets you to the next tier. It's investment, it's facilities, it's money, it's. It's all the things you talked about, you know, being aligned. You have to have all of that, and then the coach can make a difference.
- [35:30]
Ari Wasserman
You know, we are so programmed to having coaches on our show like this feels so great to be on a coach's show. And I just, like, now that it's like a relaxed environment where we can just, you know, talk to each other. My question to you, Matt, is, and you've been through, you know, different places, different levels, obviously the NFL, different tiers of college football, but now that you are dealing head on with nil, and you're dealing head on with. With, you know, rosters that aren't equitable from a financial investment standpoint, how does that change your, you know, desire or your love for actual coaching? And how much is it a struggle if you are watching tape against a team that has invested more or less, and like, it's like, what's it like to be a coach who might not have his hands on the money, but also is trying his best to guide that money in the right way while also preparing for games where the investments aren't equitable? Like, I just, like, don't even know what it's like to be you.
- [36:26]
Matt Rhule
Yeah, yeah, so. So I would so much prefer. And there was a time when we talked about it was going to be like this where it was just really, really transparent. Like, you can get on spot, you know, spot track, whatever they call sports, spot track on in the NFL and see, every guy's making how much money they're carrying over. And you. You can just see, okay, this is what it is here. What we've done is we built a system which is just all shrouded in. In secrecy. And so I. We don't know how much each kid's making. We don't know how much each school is making. And then add into the. Now, I happen to know some people. And so I said to my press conference after the Michigan game like that Tuesday, I said. I said, There's $40 million rosters out there. Now, that's. That's not me saying, hey, you know, it's okay that we lost. No, I'm not saying that. And so some people will say that. That's why you said it. No, I'm pointing out that you. No one can defy the gravity of the money. Now. I'LL say it this way, no one's going to win who doesn't spend the money to be in the top tier of winning year after year. You might have a good year, but just because you spend the money doesn't mean you're going to win. There's always going to be those teams, but like the Oakland Athletics, the Kansas City Royals. I'm a Royals fan. I don't think they're going to just be perennial World Series winners because they just. They're in small market and they're spending small market money. That doesn't mean that just because you spend the money you're going to win. But I just wish it was really transparent because I think for some, if you're spending $40 million on your roster, then you better be in the College Football Playoff, you better be in the Final Four, you better be making a run. And that's maybe why I get myself in trouble a little bit, Ari, because I'm always saying, like, hey, guys, there's a difference between these conferences and there's a difference between, like, I think everyone who comments on football should have to watch, like the actual. Not the TV copies, but the actual tape and see the speed and the ferocity. Because I'm watching different teams and I'm like, there's no way this team would win in our conference. So I think it's that.
- [38:12]
Ari Wasserman
That I think is really interesting. And Andy and I have had a lot of discussions about this, but, you know, coming up in this business, you know, he's. He's a little bit older than me, but him. And we both have a recruiting background. When he was in his early days at si, he wrote a lot about recruiting at the Athletic. When I first became a national reporter, it was all recruiting based and it was very easy to track who's getting the best players, who's developing the players the best and who's winning the most. And now I have a hard time because if a coach gets fired or a coach is losing, a lot of times they might be losing in the modern era for reasons outside of things that they used to control. At the end of, you know, at the end of 2018, everything that the head coach touched was. Was impacted by his decision making. And now the coach might be losing games because of things outside of his control. How, like, as a person who is the CEO of a major college football program, do you feel like in this new era you have less control over your own fate?
- [39:07]
Matt Rhule
You definitely have less control because it's not even like we're all gonna look at it on a year to year basis, right? Like, well, hey, last year they lost this guy, or this year they won that, beat this guy. But it's really like the guy you lost three years ago, two years ago, that when he's a senior, he's playing for somebody else. You know, Like, I look when I'm in recruiting, I like that when people are talking about other schools, I won't talk bad about other schools, but I'll say, well, they'll say, hey, coach, they had eight guys drafted. I'm like, well, yeah, five of those are transferred. Like, who is taking a freshman and developing them the whole way through? I get upset when I lose a player as a sophomore because he can make more money somewhere else. When I know, like, hey, you know what? The best thing for him, I believe, would be to stay here, get a good education, develop under us. Like, I look at the teams I had at Temple. Hassan Redick, Deion Dawkins, these guys are in the upper echelon of the National Football League. They would have been gone after two years. Like, they would have. Someone would have come in with a bunch of money and they would have left. And so I had way more control. Then again, I want the players to have agency and be able to move around. It's just. I just think if we had some transparency to it, then you'd really be able to say, like, okay, who's. Who's doing more with less and who's doing less with more? I think that's a really important thing about coaches.
- [40:16]
Andy Staples
It's going to be really interesting, Matt, this next. I was talking to a GM at another school the other day, and I don't think people realize this year, this coming year is gonna be so different from this past year because you've got this rev share thing. But the rev share thing started this year. All this new money came in. And so everybody's gonna think, and like, every kid's agent's gonna think, oh, my guy's getting a raise. And that's not what's gonna happen because there's not gonna be this huge infusion of new money. People are gonna be getting pay cuts and you guys are gonna have to make some hard decisions and you guys are gonna have to make some honest evaluations. And I know you coach with an edge and you're very blunt with your players. Do you think that helps when it comes down to that next step where you've got to have these honest conversations at the end of the season about, we want to Retain you. But this is what we can give you.
- [41:05]
Matt Rhule
Yeah, yeah. I think it helps a ton. I don't think anyone's going to give you this huge discount. Right? Like, you know, I'm going to give you this huge discount. But I think if the one question I've asked players in the past, like, you know, we had two portals, I had a couple players this past spring that, you know, schools were coming in on and I just said, listen, if it's better for you to go, go. But let me ask you one question. Are you happy? And I think that's the one thing. I see a lot of kids transfer and they have success. I see a lot of kids transfer and they don't have as much success. And I'm like, man, if you're happy and you're doing well, like, why mess that up? But I think, I think if you had that relationship, if the only time you meet with a player is to talk about what money they're making, the next year it becomes very busy, business transactional only, and they move forward. Like, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna leave the University of Nebraska to take another job because someone gives me an extra, you know, 5% raise, I'm happy here. So, you know, as long as the schools are in the same area, you're gonna go with a place where you're the most happy. And I think it's the same thing with our players. What's happened is there's several schools who they prepaid. They prepaid the rev share. Yeah, yeah. Originally it was supposed to be, I mean, everyone front loaded and then it was supposed to be whatever it was, like April 13th or May 13th, you know, hey, the house revenue house is going to go into effect. There's no more prepaying. And what happened was when it didn't, when we fought over roster limits, like, I mean, who in the world would fight over roster limits? Like, oh, wow, it's, it's a bad thing that kids want to play college football that we have. It's a, like, it's a bad thing that I have walk ons who pay to be on my football team. What are we talking about? So when we fought over roster limits for a month or six weeks or whatever it was, some schools were able to take all their extra nil, go out and raise the money and prepay. So you're going to get into a spring portal now you know why it's. You couldn't explain to me why it's in January, but it's in January, right? The money goes through the whole year. You're gonna have schools that have 8, 9, $10 million just this spring alone, and then whatever they have for next year. So the. The thought of, hey, this is. This is evened out. Not really true. It's gonna take a while for it to even out.
- [43:03]
Andy Staples
Some people think the Nil Go thing is going to be effective, and some people don't. And people are operating as if, how do you guys manage that piece of it where, you know, everybody's kind of playing by a different set of rules?
- [43:16]
Matt Rhule
So the first thing I did was I went and hired Pat Stewart, who I'd worked with in way back when in Western Carolina. I worked with a temple without gold, but then he went to the Patriot. I did not get into coaching to have spreadsheets open and do all the math. Like, it's. It's so much and different than the NFL. As you know, in the NFL, you can carry your money over from year to year so you can build. Hey, like in the NFL, like, let's build. Hey, in three years, we're gonna go make these big signings. We'll have an unbelievable team here. The money ends each year, so you have to use it. So I needed to go hire someone that A, could have these conversations with players, B, who would not let the emotion, like, these guys are my guys. Like, you know, I love them. So, like, you know, there's always an emotional attachment, attachment, and I need someone that's going to manage the money with them. I think the whole Nil thing, I think what we're finding out is, is it's not coming under wraps anytime soon. There's going to be teams that, you know, they can get legitimate businesses to sponsor their kids and they're going to move up. It's one of the reasons why I came to Nebraska, to be quite honest with you, like, with our fan base and with. We should be able to have legitimate Nil deals. I mean, our women's volleyball team, we have Olympians. You know, I mean, they do. They get them. Dylan Rayola, he has legitimate things. Jacori, Barney. So there's going to be a. I think it's just going to be a separation of the haves and have nots. I talked to a really good friend of mine, coach in the Big 12, not Joey McGuire, because everyone knows we're close, but someone else. And, and he told me this spring, he's like, yeah, you know, we, you know, we have 14 million in rev share, but we've only. We've only raised half of it. And how long can you raise? 14, $15 million a year? Like Nebraska, we sell it every game. We don't have to raise it. It's gonna just. It's just gonna stratify college sports so much.
- [44:52]
Andy Staples
If you have to keep going back and asking, it's gonna be a problem. And. And we've talked to Joey a couple times on the show about this, and Joey's in a different universe, but Joey's got his own set of problems because Joey answers to a billionaire. Like, yeah, they got the roster, but you got to deliver the results now.
- [45:11]
Ari Wasserman
So, yeah, Joey, you know, went from, you know, being a former high school coach who's going to turn around Texas Tech by, you know, looking through underappreciated and undervalued Texas players and being the first offer for everybody to like being the front of a major business where he's, like, all of a sudden on the hot seat, despite being the most winningest coach since Mike Leach. And, you know, they haven't even lost a game yet. You know what I mean? Like, it's like, either do it now or you're out. You know, like, that's a difficult position to be.
- [45:42]
Matt Rhule
There's no doubt James Blanchard is their gm. James worked for me. I gave him his first college job. He worked for me at Baylor. He's brilliant. But I'm opening up street and Smith's or whatever it was. They still street and Smith, Lindy's, Athlon, I don't know. And. And literally there's a full page picture of James, and it's like the. The talent evaluation, all this stuff is really at the front and center of this whole deal. I just don't want. The thing that I've never wanted is I don't want college football to become, like, 10 teams. I don't want it to become, like, just the south and like, the. Like, I hated when the Pac 12 died. Like, I want college football to be in the Northeast. I want it to be out West. I want it to be all, all over, all over the country. Because I think that will grow the game way more than just, hey, 10 schools winning it every year.
- [46:28]
Andy Staples
And the best part was the regional flavor. Like, you Pac 12 games had a certain look to them. Big 10 games had a certain look to them. SEC games. Like, you could. You knew what you were watching before you even saw the logos. And that's gone. I used to do tons of geographical studies of where recruits go, because when I first got si, Tommy Tuberville was at Auburn. And he goes, he goes, we just try to get people from within five hours drive. And I said, okay, well, I'm going to study every team and who's got the most people from within five hours drive. And like Jim Harbaugh ended up loving that. That story. Apparently, like Andrew Luck was telling me, he's reading it in the locker room. But, but I, it was so interesting. And if you go back and you look at rosters from the 90s in the early 2000s, Nebraska would go get guys out of jersey every once in a while and get a really good player. But they also did a little, a lot of really good recruiting in Nebraska, in Iowa, in Minnesota, in nearby states. And Alabama was like 65% in state kids. And that's just not the way anymore. Everybody's from everywhere.
- [47:29]
Ari Wasserman
The thing that I struggled with the most, at least trying to analyze the sport, Matt, as you know, this used to be so easy. You would just go look at on threes, you know, top 15 teams, and then you would figure out, okay, well, this team signed x number of five stars, x number of four stars, x number of top 100 players. You would have a pool of six teams that, that accumulated them at a clip that nobody else could match. And one of those six teams would win the national championship. That was college football for 20 years. There was only one. Or there were three teams that won a national title between 2000 and 2020, one that hadn't signed a top five class in any of the previous four years. And that was Clemson twice with Trevor Lawrence and Deshaun Watson and Auburn when they had Cam Newton. And I think you can see the common denominator between the three exceptions. So, like, the, the thing that I find is most difficult now is that I don't know when these job openings are coming up. Like, what the actual plan is when somebody takes over at a job. Like Virginia Tech is going to be open here, right? So when the Virginia Tech coach takes the Virginia Tech job, whoever that may be, what are. When they sit down and they write their bill of rights or their, their, you know, declaration of independence of everything that they need to do in their job to be successful, Is it the same everywhere? Now, it's not just attack these four areas that are within. It's to deploy our money the best possible way, borders don't matter, and try to sign and get the best bang for the buck that we can from players that, you know, may or may not be good in the future. Like, how hard is it to even distinguish or differentiate certain jobs from like the plan. Geography used to be the ultimate thing and now it doesn't even mean anything.
- [49:05]
Matt Rhule
Yeah, I really think it's going to come down to like, what's their, what's their balance sheet look like? Like, how much money do you actually have? Because, you know, one of the unique things I'm starting to see in recruiting is you'll have some players who, you know, instead of going to the best conference or the best school will go to a lower conference or a lower rated school for more money. Because for them, you know, maybe they're a three star recruit, but for that school, they can't get a four or five star. They, they're going to invest four or five star money from the other school into that student athlete now that that young person's there for a year and all of a sudden they realize, wait, there's not a lot of good players here with me. Because if you, if you're on a really good roster and unless you have crazy nil on top of it, like, basically you have to pay everyone. So you don't, you don't have these monster numbers. If there's a salary cap. That's what, that's what makes parity in the NFL. So you have some young people that are like, well, I'd rather make more money and play at less of a school. Like, you're going to start seeing people choose conferences and schools you never would have thought possible. And I think the other component of it is I look at like the people who came in the year that I came in to Nebraska, guys took other jobs. A lot of them came from other stories schools. They could bring their roster, you know, they could bring guys with them. Like, if I were to, you know, I, I, I couldn't bring Christian McCaffrey. I couldn't bring Brian Burns. Right? Like, they wouldn't have wanted to come with, go with me. They, they were doing fine in the NFL.
- [50:22]
Andy Staples
But, but Brian Burns, please, please go get the quarterback.
- [50:26]
Matt Rhule
That'd be amazing. Oh my gosh, that'd be amazing. But, but if I were to leave today and go coach at the University of Anchorage, you know, you can take these guys with you. So I think, you know, at first you thought, hey, there's not going to be a lot of job openings. There's, there's three job openings four weeks in. So it behooves people like, hey, here's your thing about who I'm going to hire. Like, should you hire someone that's got a good roster that would bring their team with them, should you? There's so much strategy in this. And if you're taking a job, the last thing else you're taking a job, you're going to want to see the financials of like, hey, how much rev share do you have left over? Like, January Portal, like, who am I signing? You know, how am I going to get these kids in here? It is so, so much more than it was three years ago. When you're like, what schools should my kids go to?
- [51:09]
Andy Staples
The thing amazing that amazes me the most now is like, if somebody's looking for a coordinator, you almost have to look at who their quarterback is and can they bring their quarterback, like, if it's an offensive quarter. And then I was watching North Texas Speed army to go four and oh, this week, well, they hired Sam Houston State's coordinator and he brought six starters from that defense. Like, it's almost now, like, like you said, you're not just looking at the coach, you're looking at who they can bring with.
- [51:38]
Matt Rhule
It's, it's, it's amazing.
- [51:41]
Ari Wasserman
I have this question because back in the day, and I keep referencing back in the day like I'm some old guy, but, like, it is, there were certain teams, like, I watched a clip and I was telling Andy about this on the show earlier this week of the 2020 or the 2019 LSU, Alabama game, and they showed all the players that were on the field on both teams. And it is like 15 current NFL all pros in that game and, like, very recognizable names. I don't need. Yandy, you can go down the list for me if you want. But, you know, back in the day when you were winning national titles, the teams, the mega teams, the super teams that were winning them in 2014, 15, 16, 17, 18 and beyond, had 10 bona fide NFL players on their team playing at all times. And now that there is more of a roster distribution in college football, I think the number of players that you absolutely have to have on your team in order to win at a higher level is diminished a little bit because everybody's a little bit closer together than they used to be. And I'm wondering when you're watching film, coach, and you're looking at your team and you're looking at the other team, I'm sure you get a sense of like, well, they have this many dogs and we have this many dogs. How many future NFL players do you think a college football team needs to have on their roster right now to win a championship at the college level?
- [52:55]
Matt Rhule
I think it's probably in that 10 to 12 range, and I think it's probably depends. Now that we're. Now that we've associated money with it, it starts to go to the positions. Quarterback will always be the most important position. You know, what's your offensive line, defensive line like? Do you have a dominant receiver, though? I think in college, dominant tailbacks are much more important than they are in pro football. You know, the ground game will always be the most important part of college football as opposed to the pro game. And so it really. You start to put out, say yourself, like, hey, what are the most important positions? Like in college, most people sit in quarters. You know, safety. Having a great safety is awesome, but you better have a boundary corner that can. That can shut down the other team's best receiver. So I think it comes back to prioritization. That's why going back, I love it, to be transparent. So if we all have the same money, then it's like, okay, well, who allocated their money to best and who's then building a stage around it? If one team has 40 and one team has 20, then it doesn't even matter. Right?
- [53:49]
Ari Wasserman
You're gonna rank the positions for us, though. Like, what do you think the top five are in terms of money allocation? Quarterback 1. And then what's after it.
- [53:56]
Matt Rhule
Quarterback, attack. Offensive tackle, 2. Pass rusher, 3. Shutdown. Corner shut. Dominant receiver, 4 and 5. Just tackle. Next. Yeah. D tackle. D tackle and tailback. We played Michigan last week. You know, they. They beat us. They beat us. Beat us by three. They did a nice job, but they had. They had Jay Sean Barnum, I think, started at Maryland, who's. They moved to edge and he was dominant. And they had Justice Haynes, who started Alabama, I think, and he's a tailback. And those guys are elite players. So I think the college tailback position is much more important than it is in pros, but I put that at six.
- [54:31]
Ari Wasserman
We haven't talked about that much. The one thing that I've been saying, and Andy, I don't know if you agree with me, but I felt like the dominant rule receiver was moving up those rankings a little bit.
- [54:39]
Andy Staples
I think so. But I think Matt makes a good point because. Because in the NFL, unless it's Christian McCaffrey or Derek Henry who are just freaks of nature, if you have a good offensive line, you can put somebody back there who's adequate and you'll. You'll do fine. In college, if you have a fairly special tailback who may not be special in the NFL doesn't have to be Saquon Barkley. I mean, you're, you're talking about the difference between 5 yards of carry and 7 yards of carry and all of a sudden it's a different game.
- [55:08]
Matt Rhule
Yeah, no, I think so. And again, you know, whether you put the corner of the receiver as four or five, I just think those are the top two positions. Right. Like, if you have a receiver like that can command, that can command a double team in college football or command you haven't rolled the coverage to them. Now you can run the football all day long. And you know, you mentioned those LSU teams. Obviously, you know, they were dominant everywhere, but you know, they, Justin Jefferson and Jamar Chase, like, I mean, what do you do? And then all sudden, you know, you have Clyde Edwards, Hilaire run, run, running duo, and then Joe Burrow. I mean. Yeah, I'll take that team. I mean, I'll take that team. They still have the video game, the cuffs. Well, I'll take that. That team because they had, they had a little bit of everybody. They were, they were dominant.
- [55:47]
Andy Staples
And Clyde couldn't just run duo. Well, when he ran that angle route, he was pretty deadly too, so.
- [55:53]
Matt Rhule
No doubt.
- [55:55]
Andy Staples
So speaking of positions, you have a positional value or a position that you value more than I think most coaches in this age. And I appreciate it. You're a fullback guy. I love fullbacks. I love that there's a position where, because, you know, I played offensive line, so I, I appreciate people who just want to block. And I also might have a kid who loves to block but is not going to be £300. So if he wants to play in college, there better be some teams that have a fullback.
- [56:26]
Matt Rhule
Yeah, I think it's the great, it's a great neutralizer. Like, even if you don't, we don't use it all the time, but if a couple times a game, you know, you put someone out there that's going to run through somebody's face. We had a kid at temple, Nick Sharga, tore his ACL going into senior year, put on a brace and played the whole year and was dominant. Ended up in an NFL camp and now he's a priest. So if you hear this, I hope you're doing well, but just, just, just a wired to like run through somebody's face, which at the other day, football is still, still about, still about being physical.
- [56:56]
Andy Staples
Well, and the other thing about Nebraska that I love is the walk on program historically. And that's what drove me crazy about the roster spot debate, how in the world can you deny people who are paying tuition at your school a chance to be on the football team?
- [57:10]
Matt Rhule
It's crazy. And, you know, I'm glad that. I'm glad they grandfathered those kids in. I mean, I have some amazing kids that, you know, literally I had kids say to me, coach, I don't. If you have to get rid of me, you have to get rid of me. But I will be here until the day you tell me I have to leave this building. I've won. I've said this a couple times. I had this one young man, Jacob Randall, he said, my only goal is someday to be able to bring my kids back here and see my name on the wall as a letterman. Like, I came and saw my dad's name and I was a walk on at Penn State. And I wasn't a good walk on. I was a guy that like, found a way to get on some special teams and play.
- [57:40]
Andy Staples
You were still better walk on than me. So you got that.
- [57:45]
Matt Rhule
You're a better podcaster, you're a better reporter. I, I had that one thing, so I'll take.
- [57:50]
Ari Wasserman
Well, I mean, being a successful head coach is a pretty good thing to.
- [57:54]
Andy Staples
You did all right. But yeah, I mean that's, and that's what people don't. I was talking about this with somebody, the life of a walk on offensive line where I was explaining like what scout teams like for those people, because the defense goes full speed, like the starting defense goes full speed. You're basically being fed to the wolves every day. And the guys who make it through four years of that, five years of that, they're, they're just tough bastards. Like they, and they may never play on the field.
- [58:19]
Matt Rhule
That's it. I, I, if you look at my staff, like, like I've got coaches that were walk ons. My strength coach was a walk on because at the end of the day, you're doing it because you love it. You're doing it because to your point, like, it's one thing if you're, you know, not even practicing, but if you're out there and you're getting someone, someone running through your face and you're, you know, I mean, I was on some great teams at Penn State and you know, there were some great players and you know, it took a, it takes a physical toll on you, but you love it and you love the game. And so I think there's something special about people who do it. They're going to be successful in whatever area of life they choose after playing Is done. All right. I got to ask you, I got to ask you. I got to ask you now. We talked earlier about now because I've lived the north New York guy, New Jersey guy guy, but lived in North Carolina.
- [59:04]
Andy Staples
Yep.
- [59:04]
Matt Rhule
Lived in Texas. Here I am in Nebraska. We go. We recruit Kansas City a lot. And so you're, you know, you said barbecue related issues. Talk to me about some, talk to me what some of these issues are. Let's talk just a little bit about barbecue because I'd like to hear some takes from you.
- [59:19]
Andy Staples
Well, I, you know, I, I'm probably a pretty big barbecue snob because I've been really lucky in this job to go around and, and travel as much as I have and get to taste all these different. So. But I'm originally from South Carolina, Matt. So like when you were in Charlotte, if you drove down I77 to Columbia, your. Your barbecue experience got really different as you drove. I admit I come from a very weird place where my idea of barbecue when I was a kid, what my mom would hand me when we, when we went to, to get some barbecue was a pulled pork sandwich in mustard based barbecue sauce. And it's, it's awesome. But people who aren't from South Carolina are just like, what the hell? Why would you do that? Or you know, North Carolina, they have the, they do the vinegar. Like eastern North Carolina, it's chopped pork and vinegar. And people in south are like, why would you chop it? You. It's not going to be juicy that way. But I'm telling you right now, you go to the Skylight Inn and eight in North Carolina, they have this cutting board. It's like this giant block and you can hear it. It's like people playing drums. They just put the pork on the cutting board and just. And the cutting board has, it's concave because they cut it so much and they dip it in the fat and they put it in the Styrofoam and they hand you these like, we call them hoecakes. I don't, I don't. It's like flat, round cornbread and they hand you that and they have this vinegar sauce that goes with it. It is heaven. But that's the thing. Like, I love all that. I'm not one of those people's. Like, real barbecue is, is in Texas and it's brisket cooked with salt and it's just salt and pepper. Now I do think you don't need sauce if you cook it properly. I'll stand by that. So come at me Kansas City. Because you got to stop pouring all that crap all over your. Your barbecue.
- [61:11]
Matt Rhule
See that?
- [61:12]
Ari Wasserman
See like that to me.
- [61:14]
Andy Staples
But there's new places in Kansas City. Don't do that so.
- [61:17]
Matt Rhule
Well.
- [61:17]
Ari Wasserman
Like, listen. And Matt, you're talking to somebody. And this is andy, who spent $129 on barbecue yesterday for lunch. So, like, this is, like, a true story. We went.
- [61:26]
Andy Staples
I was with Ari in Dallas, and he took me to a new place. I'm like, we have to try everything, bud.
- [61:30]
Ari Wasserman
Yeah, so we. We got nine pounds of meat I don't like. And, like, Andy is such. Like, I'm from Phoenix. There's no. There's a place called Little Miss Barbecue in Phoenix.
- [61:41]
Matt Rhule
Yeah.
- [61:41]
Andy Staples
Little Miss is the best barbecue rest of the Rockies. Show some freaking respect, Ari.
- [61:45]
Ari Wasserman
It wasn't there. I don't think when I grew up. I didn't grow up of. Of the country that you did. So I. My exposure to barbecue is definitely limited and. And certainly different than yours. But, like, this idea that sauce is offensive is just so bothersome to me. It's like, sauce is awesome. Like, what's wrong with you?
- [62:02]
Andy Staples
Sauce is what you used to cover up when you didn't cook it right. Like, that's when you cook at home.
- [62:08]
Ari Wasserman
Barbecue is good.
- [62:09]
Andy Staples
Dude, I can't cook a brisket to save my life. You need to sauce the brisket. I cook you. But when you go to an expert, someone who holds himself out to be a master, a pit master, then, yeah, I want brisket that I don't need to put sauce on.
- [62:24]
Ari Wasserman
I mean, nothing is not improved by sugar sauce.
- [62:27]
Andy Staples
Matt, I have a food question for you, though, because the people of Nebraska created a combination that I did not know anything about until I started doing this job. And I went to Nebraska to cover a Nebraska Iowa game, and it was first exposed to this chili and cinnamon rolls. The greatest combination.
- [62:49]
Matt Rhule
It's amazing. So. So. So I've learned my lesson the hard way, because when I went from North Carolina, where I was Western Carolina, and so barbecue to me was like, barbecue. And all three sauces, you know, you could pick.
- [63:00]
Andy Staples
Yeah. Tomato based. Yeah. On the western side. Chloe. North Carolina is a hell of a place there, Matt.
- [63:07]
Matt Rhule
It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's a great place. I love my time there. And they had hush puppies. So I go to Baylor to be the head coach at Baylor, and they say, coach, you like barbecue? And, you know, I'm a guy from New Jersey. I'm replacing, you know, Art Briles, who's a Texas legend, right? And they say to me, you know, coach, do you like barbecue? I said, oh, yeah, I can't wait to get some barbecue. We'll get some brisket. Get some hush puppies. And they went like, who would ever eat a hush puppy? I was like, oh, my gosh. So that's why. That's why I hired Joey McGuire.
- [63:34]
Andy Staples
It's so funny that people in Waco were snobby about anything. Their food scenes improve quite a bit. But I remember the first time I started, I went to Waco. They're like, the best thing we got here are these things called crazy wings. And I was like, what is that?
- [63:46]
Matt Rhule
Which is pretty, actually a wing.
- [63:48]
Andy Staples
They're delicious.
- [63:48]
Matt Rhule
But, you know, it's moved. It's moved way up. But. But, yeah, when I first heard that here, I was like, that sounds. That doesn't sound very good. And I went to a recruit's house, and mom had it, and I was like. She said, just think about this. When you have chili growing up, did you have cornbread back? I said, yeah. My mom always said cornbread and chili. And she was like, now just think about what would make. Make cornbread even better if you put sugar icing on top of it. So a cinnamon roll, and then you're eating the chili, then you have something sweet, then you eat the chili, then you have something sweet. I've seen people mix it and just dump it in, but I'm more of a have the chili, have the cinnamon roll. It's pretty dang awesome, if we're being honest.
- [64:27]
Andy Staples
It is. And so there's a restaurant called Lead Belly in Lincoln. And I remember when it first opened, I went there and. And they had a chili and cinnamon roll burger, which sounds. Well, the guy. I don't think they do it anymore, but the guy told me that they put it on the menu as a joke, and people started ordering it. I don't think it's on the menu anymore, but it was pretty awesome.
- [64:50]
Ari Wasserman
You know, Andy, the thing that I think is interesting is just the combination of what you would view as a dessert or a savory. A savory food in a dessert. And, like, I have never. I. I'm be willing to try it in my many times in Lincoln. I've never eaten the two combination.
- [65:04]
Matt Rhule
You.
- [65:05]
Andy Staples
You got to. You got to. The legend. The legend I heard.
- [65:08]
Matt Rhule
And.
- [65:09]
Andy Staples
And we'll have to find out from. From the source here is that somewhere in Nebraska or maybe western Iowa, there was a school cafeteria that had an abundance of chili and abundance of cinnamon rolls one day and they needed to just get rid of it all. So they just served it all at once.
- [65:27]
Ari Wasserman
Yeah.
- [65:29]
Andy Staples
Tradition was born.
- [65:30]
Ari Wasserman
Matt, you are accomplished in very many ways. Right. The one thing that I wanted to say before you go is that a good podcast always has a take, right? You have to have a take. You want one about food that I'm going to leave you with? That's going to annoy some people, including Andy.
- [65:46]
Matt Rhule
Oh, God.
- [65:47]
Andy Staples
I know where he's going. This.
- [65:49]
Ari Wasserman
Where am I going? Let's see how well you know me.
- [65:51]
Andy Staples
This is the Mexican food take.
- [65:53]
Ari Wasserman
No, no, I'm not gonna do it.
- [65:54]
Andy Staples
Okay, all right, all right.
- [65:55]
Ari Wasserman
I will if you need it.
- [65:56]
Andy Staples
No, no, please, no. But I don't have three hours.
- [65:59]
Ari Wasserman
I live in Dallas now. And, you know, we have Terry Blacks and we have all these different places. There's a place called Heim Barbecue that I think is absolutely delicious and one of the best restaurants in. In northeast Texas. But the cuisine that you got to grow up around, the pizza, the Italian food, the carb based foods, you could, you could remove barbecue off the face of the earth. To me, if that was like, if you're doing like a food category, what you got growing up, it. Barbecue shouldn't even be a food item when you're comparing it to the other thing. Now I'm going to disappear and let Andy freak out.
- [66:41]
Matt Rhule
That, that, that, that is quite. Let me just say this. I don't think, I don't think I was till I was 17 probably that I ever had a box, a pizza from a box, like pizza spot. You're supposed to walk in, you're supposed to have it made. You're supposed to say, I have a slice. Give me a slice of cheese. Give me slight. Give me, give me a slice of the buffalo mozzarella. Like you're supposed to have. You're supposed to have slices of pizza. Like, it's just. But it just, it's impossible if you're not in New York, if you're not in Philly, if you're not in Connecticut. It's just really hard to get the water right, to get the sauce right. I like going to Chicago. I like the pizza. There's a couple places here in Lincoln. There's a place called Isles that I love. It's like going back in time. There's a place called Momo's. I just think when you find great pizza, it is the ultimate comfort food and it makes you just feel.
- [67:30]
Ari Wasserman
And if you had to make one disappear. Andy, I'm going to ask you this. I don't think I've ever asked you this. One has to disappear from the face of the earth. Ribs or pizza? What disappears?
- [67:42]
Andy Staples
Well, can I eat other barbecue meat? Can I eat other smoked meats?
- [67:47]
Ari Wasserman
You cannot have barbecue or you cannot have pizza? Which one are you getting rid of?
- [67:51]
Andy Staples
I'm getting rid of pizza, but I'm not happy about it. Like, I love pizza. And I will admit that people from where Matt's from do pizza better than people where.
- [68:01]
Matt Rhule
From. Where I'm from.
- [68:03]
Andy Staples
It's fine. Like, we're good at what we're good at.
- [68:06]
Matt Rhule
And.
- [68:06]
Andy Staples
And Matt, the thing I love that we don't really have in the south, those. Those Italian restaurants, the little family Italian restaurants. Like, you go to New York City or Philly, and you walk in and the waiter goes, do you trust me? And you say, why, yes, I do. And all of a sudden, there's the arancini. There's, you know, the sausage and peppers, and it's all coming out, and. And you're like, okay, I don't know what the bill is going to be, but I don't even care at this point.
- [68:36]
Matt Rhule
There's a place. There's a place in Atlantic City called Chef Volas. If you go back and watch Boardwalk Empire, it's been there since then. And Lou comes over the table, and I'm like, just. Just do it. There's 10 of us. You got it. And it's just like he takes you on a tour. Emotional and physical, you're going to be. You're going to feel it for two days. But even, like, there used to be a place in Philly called Mr. Joe's Cafe, and the Termini family, I believe they started, and there was a woman there. I think it was Miss Annette. Oh, man. Miss Marie, she would. She would come over and it was, you know, it's byob, right? And she could get some coffee. She's like, honey, you want some sugar in that? And I was like, no, I don't put sugar. She's like, you want some sugar? Trust me. Walks over, puts a little sambuca in your coffee. In the middle of the day with a night. Oh, it's recreating family. That's what. That's the only reason why I would say pizza and Italian food, it's like you can feel and taste family as you eat it. But that's me.
- [69:32]
Ari Wasserman
He said it was a physical journey and a taste journey, but I also feel like it might be like, A spiritual journey, and frankly, for some people, a sexual journey. That sounds incredible.
- [69:45]
Matt Rhule
Ari had to do it.
- [69:47]
Ari Wasserman
I had to do it. But honestly, though, like, a chicken parm sandwich, some of those sandwiches that you see in Philadelphia, the. The cheesesteaks, the pizza, like, that is like my. My comfort food. And listen, I love barbecue, and I always have to do this thing where you have to choose one or the other. They're both great, but there's nothing better. Like, there's no region. If you could only eat in one region of the country for the rest of your life. Like, if you don't pick the Northeast, there's, like, something wrong with you. Like, it's like, not even. There's no other answer. Like, that's it.
- [70:17]
Andy Staples
Yeah, no, I. I'm staying in the south, but yeah. Yeah, me and my collard greens and fried chicken will. Will be perfectly just fine.
- [70:26]
Matt Rhule
Yeah, it's just like. It's just like picking your favorite conference, picking your favorite food region is. It's. But thankfully, we have them all.
- [70:33]
Andy Staples
Well, the beauty of the Big Ten now is you have everything. You got it all.
- [70:37]
Matt Rhule
We're going to be in Maryland, we're going to be in la. I'm gonna have sushi. I'm gonna have. I'm gonna have crab cakes. You know, we go a little bit of everywhere.
- [70:44]
Ari Wasserman
So you literally did just describe our podcast perfectly, because you have the Southern gentleman and the Yankee who have their separate opinions, and.
- [70:52]
Andy Staples
I'm from Arizona.
- [70:53]
Ari Wasserman
No, I know, but, like, I lived my entire life.
- [70:55]
Andy Staples
Well, you're basically a snowbird.
- [70:57]
Ari Wasserman
Yeah, I live. I spent my entire professional career covering Big Ten football. And you've spent your entire career being in the south and your whole life. So there's a set. There's a different aspect to it, but the one thing I always been dying to know, and, like, I know going on the road and recruiting might be tough when you have a family and, you know, it's exhausting and stuff, but, man, you must have been able to eat. Do you, like, make time on recruiting trips to try the local places that people talk about? Like, are you just, like, the most well fed, most diverse eater in the history of the world?
- [71:27]
Matt Rhule
Yes. Yes. I'll be on the road this week, and I'll On Thursday night. Like. Like, we land. We're actually at Fort Worth, and Dr. Susan Elza, who runs our program, and she's. She ran the UIL in Texas. She, like, she. Right away on my thing, she put down three restaurant options with the menus. Like, to me, when I When I go somewhere, I want to eat something there that I can only eat there. Like, I don't want to go eat at a chain. I don't want to. I want to go, and I want to eat something that I can only get. Like, I used to live in Buffalo, and you can't convince me that the best wings in the world are not in Buffalo. I used, you know, I lived in New York. You can't convince me the best pizza. So when I'm in Fort Worth, I want to eat what's there. It used to be head coaches could go to the houses, and I've eaten some amazing meals with families and parents. Now the rules have gotten way harder in terms of us being at people's houses, but. But, yeah, I don't miss many meals. I find a way.
- [72:13]
Andy Staples
Ed Orgeron tells great stories about having to eat the sixth bowl of homemade gumbo in one night because you can't turn it down because they'll get offended.
- [72:23]
Matt Rhule
Oh, you cannot say no.
- [72:24]
Andy Staples
The best stories are the ones from coaches who I will not name, who will tell you about when they had to blow up the bathroom at a recruit's house because, you know, we know it's happened.
- [72:35]
Matt Rhule
Yeah, I've been able to avoid. I've been able to avoid that one. The best is when you stack dinners. Like, you go to one person's house and one person's house, and you're like, this is gonna be. This is gonna be something else. This is gonna be three meals in a couple hours. But you know what? It makes it fun, man.
- [72:50]
Ari Wasserman
For the sake of not making your podcast six and a half hours long, I just feel like I need to ask every head coaches what's the most, like. And you don't have to say names or anything, but have you had a truly awkward interaction or a moment or something that, like, you still think about on an in home visit?
- [73:04]
Matt Rhule
Oh, yeah.
- [73:11]
Ari Wasserman
It's intimate.
- [73:12]
Matt Rhule
I went. I don't want to. I want to be respectful, but I went into someone's home years and years and years ago with Fran Brown, the head coach of Syracuse. Fran's one of the greatest, greatest recruiters. He might be the greatest recruiter I've ever been around in my life. And, you know, some guys, Some guys in the neighborhood, like, were out kind of like, doing business on the street, and they're. And he, like, walked in the house, he walked back out. He was like, yo, blew the whistle. He's like, guys go around the corner. He's like, you shouldn't be set up here. Go, Go around the corner. Leave us alone. I'm sitting there like, you know, I'm like, what is happening? And Fran's redirecting the whole local economy. But. But yeah, I mean, I've had some. Like I said, Fran Brown, like, there's no doubt what he's doing at Syracuse because I.
- [73:53]
Andy Staples
You knew. You knew when he got the job, right? That this was going to happen.
- [73:57]
Matt Rhule
Yeah. Fran's not going to lose friends going to Frank. I recruited Fran out of Hudson Valley Community College 20 years ago to come play for me at Western Carolina. Like, he's just a winner. He's going to will things to happen.
- [74:08]
Ari Wasserman
And when I was at the Athletic, you want to talk about awkward head coach reporter interactions? I was still at the Athletic when he got hired at Syracuse, and he was talking about how he's gonna go get the best players around. And this was pre nil and all this stuff. This was like, right. You know, still when recruiting was kind of done.
- [74:26]
Andy Staples
So there was nil.
- [74:27]
Ari Wasserman
It was only two years ago we hadn't gotten into the. The discussion that we had today. Yeah, it was at the very beginning of it. And he goes, yeah, we're just gonna go get a bunch of four and five star players. And like, I called them on the phone because I had to write a feature about it. And I said, franz, with all due respect, I know all about your past and every single person that's come across you as a human knows that you're a great recruiter and that you're a good coach and that you're going to be successful there. But, like, do you think maybe you should, like, dial it back a little bit? Like, when it comes to, like, promising finding these top 15 classes. And he got like, super offended. Like, he was like, what? What? You don't think I can do it?
- [75:00]
Andy Staples
Already committed to Syracuse, even though no offer had been extended.
- [75:03]
Ari Wasserman
But it was funny because we had like a kind of a conversation. It was a. It wasn't a podcast. We were. I was just interviewing him with the tape recorder and we got into this, like, back and forth banter about, like, whether or not he could do it. Turns out he's doing pretty good, you know. You know, after. After it was over with, he's like, you can call me anytime, because you. You said something to my face that not a lot of people would have said, and I respect that. And like, you know, from that phone call on, I knew it was gonna.
- [75:29]
Matt Rhule
Work for him, and that's who he is. But, you know, you know, who else he is. Every year, my mom's birthday, he calls my mom. He's just salt of the earth, Family Guy, Elite Guy. But yeah, I mean, that whole staff. Elijah Robinson, Jeff Nixon, Fran Brown. We were all Baylor together. Like, we were at. Some of us were at temple. Like, those guys, they're gonna find a way to win. They just don't lose. They just don't lose. Franz Elite. All right, well, guys, I probably have to get back and do some work here. I gotta get ready for my trip to Fort Worth and figure out where I'm gonna eat. So if you. If you guys have any recommendations, Panther.
- [76:00]
Andy Staples
City Barbecue, Would you send them to.
- [76:02]
Ari Wasserman
Panther City or Heim?
- [76:04]
Andy Staples
Both, hopefully.
- [76:05]
Ari Wasserman
But if you make it to Heim.
- [76:08]
Andy Staples
Heims a little easier because they have the one in Dallas. You never have to wait in line there. Panther City is more. They've got the line. You know, if you've got a chance or if you got an advanced team that can do it for you, they can get it for you.
- [76:20]
Ari Wasserman
Yeah, great sides.
- [76:23]
Matt Rhule
I love a good. I love the sides. Andy, what's your feeling? Do you ever been to, like, down in Charleston to, like, Rodney Scott, like, whole pig barbecue?
- [76:30]
Andy Staples
So I've been to the original Scott's barbecue in Hemingway, South Carolina. It's up in the PD region and.
- [76:34]
Matt Rhule
It looks burned down. Or the. Or the. Or another one.
- [76:37]
Andy Staples
Now, listen, there's no such thing. Like, every good barbecue place is burned down at least once. So it is so Hemingway, South Carolina, middle of nowhere. I. I was. I was going to. I think I wanted was. Steve Spurrier was doing a game cop club speech out in Conway, where coastal Carolina is. So I was going to.
- [76:55]
Ari Wasserman
It was in.
- [76:55]
Andy Staples
At the height of his winning 11 games a year in South Carolina. So I was doing a story on him and I was like, oh, I'm close to Hemingway. I gotta try this place. It looks like a lumber yard threw up and. But the. It's whole hog chopped it up. You. You at the counter, you can buy the pork rinds.
- [77:14]
DeShawn Singleton
The.
- [77:14]
Andy Staples
The skins that they. They just did. I. I was. I bought a pound of pork. I just ate the pork, and then I had pork rinds the rest of my drive. It was amazing. And I know that Charleston has the bougie version of it because, you know.
- [77:31]
Matt Rhule
I went to that one and he was in there. I met him and he's a. He's a big Eagles fan. At the time I was in Carolina, so I take twice a year and I'm always like, please come to Lincoln, please.
- [77:41]
Andy Staples
I will.
- [77:42]
Matt Rhule
I will help.
- [77:42]
Ari Wasserman
I will make sure that every meal.
- [77:44]
Matt Rhule
We eat, we meet from your place. Because it was in a world of barbecue. It was just a little bit different, and I just. I just really loved it.
- [77:50]
Andy Staples
So those whole Hog places are so special because it's. There's so much effort required, like.
- [77:58]
Host/Interviewer
And you.
- [77:58]
Andy Staples
So you don't find them in a lot of places. A lot of South Carolina, North Carolina, that's pretty much the only places you find them. But they are. There was one in South Carolina, in Holly Hill, South Carolina. It was a whole hog buffet. They were only open Friday and Saturday. And I asked him, I was like, do you think you'd make more money if you were open more time? And this is. Sweatman's is the name of the place. And the guy goes, no, because the rest of the week we spend chopping down wood to feed the fire. You guys got to figure it out.
- [78:30]
Matt Rhule
This. This. This. This hour we just spent, I think proves a great point that a people that maybe people think don't get along can come together. Get along. We can figure out. We figured out nil.
- [78:41]
Andy Staples
That's right.
- [78:43]
Matt Rhule
We figured out pizza, barbecue, and now we've figured out how to make whole Whole hog barbecue accessible seven days a week. I mean, what, you need a lumber company, basically. No, I really appreciate you guys coming on. Thank you. I know you guys are professional, so thanks for humoring an amateur.
- [79:02]
Ari Wasserman
Like, yeah, no, that's.
- [79:04]
Andy Staples
No. When I heard this was launching, I told Ari. I was like, he's one of the few in college football, one of the few college football head coaches who can pull this off. Like, he's going to be fine. Because anybody. I've seen you in action, anybody you talk to, you, you, you. They feel like they've known you for 20 years. So, like, you already have the thing you need. Like, if you go back and watch or if tapes existed of my first SiriusXM shows, it's the worst thing ever because I was. What I do. Like your first episode, you already had it down. So, yeah, this is just gonna get easier.
- [79:40]
Ari Wasserman
Yeah. And it was a great pleasure to. To come on here with you, Matt and I have a lot of respect for you and what you're doing there. It's gonna be fun to watch you guys for the rest of the year. So thanks for having us on.
- [79:50]
Matt Rhule
Thanks, brother. Andy and Ari.
- [79:53]
Andy Staples
Hey, thanks, Matt.
- [79:54]
Ari Wasserman
Appreciate you.
- [79:58]
Host/Interviewer
All right, back here at House Rules, we love our anything but football segment. Coach got varied lifestyle, man. Like, he's got great tastes. He's in that million different things. One of the things that I love that you're into so much is leadership. I know. I learn by doing this. I love how deeply you're into leadership. So we got a question from one of our audience, Griffin Weiser. He says, listen, how do I balance clocking in 50, 60 hours a week at work and being a good dad and a husband? He said, I'm determined. He's 24 years old. I'm 24, determined to take my family business to the next level. I just don't want to miss out on the special moments that happen with my wife and my daughter.
- [80:49]
Matt Rhule
There is no balance. So everyone has to get that word. I mean, if you want to, if you want to be involved in things that are special, there is no balance. It's a juggling act to me. And. But you have to juggle with rhythm. And I think that's the biggest thing that I've had to learn is what's the rhythm? As I said, the John Gordon episode, when I come home, I don't have my phone on when I walk in. Like, to me, if you're scrolling reels, you know, while you're there with your kids, it doesn't matter if you're there or not. Like, go outside and play catch. Like, go hit the volleyball back and forth. You know, when I was younger, I used to say it's quality time. It's quality and quantity and you have to steal the quantity when you can get it. Like, you know, it's Sunday morning here. Like, Leona comes to work with me now, she might not hang out with me very much when she's at work, but, like, at least she knows I care and that I want her around me. You know, it's calling my son back from college. Hey, hey, come watch the Penn State Oregon game with me. I just think there's, there's, it's really important that we schedule out time. You know, I think you have to have a date night with your wife every week. I think, you know, I have two daughters. I think taken each of them to do something by themselves. You know, I took Leona this summer to see a movie, just her and I, and how special that is. You know, I think you have to schedule it out. I think you have to be intentional. And I think you can't beat yourself up for the fact that you're trying to create a business that changes the life for your kids and changes the opportunities, the opportunities that are there. There were so many times, cuz when I was Coming up in coaching, where I was like, man, this. This schedule, the amount of time I'm around my kids is so tough. I thought about. I thought about getting out of it. I remember sitting there talking to my mentor, George De Leon, and him saying, maybe you should coach Division 3. Maybe you should coach high school. Like, it's okay. And I had to make a decision. You know, I was born to do this. At the same time, I want to. I want to be a great father and husband. And so, you know, we all saw the Danny Woodhead episode. That's why I'm not a great golfer. I try to go when I can, but, like, I don't have a ton of hobbies outside of it, but, you know, you can sleep a little less, you can work a little bit more, but I think a lot of our days are filled with scrolling and watching this and doing and doing things that don't matter. Take some time every day for yourself, like, emotionally, spiritually, take some time for yourself every day, physically, take some time for your family every single day. And when the time is intentional that you're spending on your kids, they know it when they are the focus. But I'd start with the phone first and work backwards. But. But you know what? There's nothing wrong with wanting to provide for your family.
- [83:06]
Host/Interviewer
That's awesome. All right, time now to look ahead. We got a football game this week back home, Michigan State, you got two teams coming off a bye. How does the buy come into play?
- [83:19]
Matt Rhule
You know, we both played. We both played four games. We were both three and, oh, lost our last game. So we both, you know, we both had that punch in the face that you have to come back from, but you also have the knowledge of, hey, this is what we're doing well, this is what we need to work on. And so I'm assuming they worked on themselves and us the whole two weeks. You know, we've worked on. We've worked on us first and then our opponent for the last two weeks and trying to fix the things that are hurting us and double down on the things that we're doing well. And so it's always hard playing a team coming off a buy because you never know. Like, they might come out in something completely different. That's happened to me before. But I think the thing about Michigan. Michigan States are an excellent football team with a real identity. They know who they are. Big, physical, run the ball, play great defense, and they have an excellent quarterback. So, you know, we know. We know what we'll have to face and how well we'll have to play to win the game.
- [84:08]
Host/Interviewer
Can you overdo it in a buy over, Prepare in a buy?
- [84:12]
Matt Rhule
Yes, you can panic. You know, I think the thing is always to, to, to respond, don't react. You know, like, you know, you have stimuli to like, you know, I work for a guy named Steve Adasio, and he would always say, you know, steady in the boat. Like, steady in the boat. Like, just don't overreact. You know, high energy, you know, emotional guy like me, I have a tendency to be like. And it's just like, steady in the boat. You know, let's hurry up and wait. Let's respond. So, you know, you don't need to change everything. You just need. Sometimes you need to say to yourself, hey, what can we do better? Or what are we doing really well that we're not doing a lot. Lot of let's do more of that. And so that's, that's, that's cool about a buy. And then sometimes you get guys healthy, which can also really help.
- [84:52]
Host/Interviewer
So you, how do the kids usually respond during the buy? Like, you know, you'll be able to, you. Did you practice today? Yesterday?
- [85:01]
Matt Rhule
Yeah. So we practiced on the bye week. Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. Right. And then we gave them Friday, Saturday off. And then we practiced Sunday. They always have Monday off. And then, you know, we get game week Tuesday. So, you know, we've had a lot of really good work and what we try to do is we just put the ball down and play like, hey, let's, let's, let's go. Good on. Good. Let's, let's, let's work on getting off blocks and making blocks, getting open, covering, rushing, protecting. Let's just work on all these fundamental things. And the best way to get better is to go against good competition. So we went, we went good on, good for that part. Then you get to Sunday, Thursday a little bit and Sunday and hey, let's start working on next week's game plan. But, but I think the biggest thing you see in college football is if you want to win, you have to play well. And if you want to play well, you have to focus on yourself. And what are we doing? Well, so we tried to make ourselves better.
- [85:47]
Host/Interviewer
Pumped up.
- [85:50]
Matt Rhule
I'll tell you what, bye week is miserable to begin with, and then coming off of a disappointing game, it's even more miserable. I can't wait to get back out there. We're at home, you know, amazing fans, great student section and, and you know, Michigan State's, you know, an iconic football program and all those programs you grew up watching on tv. So it'll be a fun, fun, fun atmosphere. You know, I think it's what, 2, 30, 3 o', clock, something like that? Our time. So it'll be right in the middle of the day. It'll be a beautiful day here in Lincoln. And this is why we breathe for moments like this. Let's go.
- [86:21]
Host/Interviewer
Pumpkins are wet. The pumpkins are out. This is football time, man.
- [86:28]
Matt Rhule
Just give me a hot chocolate and some cider. I'm ready to go. Well, that's it. Another episode in the can. Please remember to, like, share or subscribe on YouTube or wherever, get your podcasts, and please follow house rules on socials until next time.